Move & Kinect Consumer Sell Through Update

There are 2.5 million unique Kinect customers and 1.6 million unique Move customers in homes worldwide, Kinect clearly has the edge at this point. Also with 4 weeks of sales compared to 11 weeks and with over three times as many sold last week, Kinect should be significantly ahead by the end of the year. In fact, after four weeks of release, the number of unique Move customers stood at 600,000 worldwide and Wii hardware sales at the same point in time stood at 1.65 million so Kinect has actually sold faster than both combined in these first few weeks.

[jack_burt0n]

<payment clears>

OMG go go kinect, it has outsold the competition by a billion, I am the controller!?! woohoo

<returns from disneyland>

WOW epic mickey is phenomenal, attention to detail!! there are no camera problems.

<returns from spa retreat>

Yes black OPS is the greatest game evar created, its in no way like buying the same game every year.

[ryuzu]

Hehe - all that and Move has still sold more - no idea what this 1.6 million thing is - more VGC fantasizing I guess.

But really, the hardware is irrelevant - the problem for MS is compounded now by a lack of software sales for the thing. Never registered in the Japanese Top 20 and already dropping like a stone in the UK charts.

r.

[Zir0]

But at least the games are actually charting so you know that Kinect is selling. Kinect Sports and Dance Central are in practically every game retailers bestselling charts top 20 consistently. While Move games don't even break the top 100. That's how you know Move isn't only underselling it also isn't bringing any new costumers either.

[Death2494]

VGChartz numbers are never accurate. They inflate 360 numbers and undertrack ps3 numbers. They always do this until the big 3 report their fiscal quarters and we see that ps3 still outsells the competition.

[DaTruth]

As if the console war wasn't bad enough, now we have a peripheral war!

Sigh!!!

Guess their are 4 million Move controllers on shelves around the world! (4.1 million shipped as of November 1, so 5 or so million shipped with Nov. and Black Friday) Not that I care, just found that incredibly stupid!

[darthv72]

The thing is...kinect games HAVE to sell because they can only be played with kinect. Move games are virtually any existing PS3 game that has been patched to support it.

There are a few Move dedicated games but I would imagine the sales are driven by those who want to play their current library differently.

Unless MS comes out with some patches to make existing 360 games kinect supported...you will see kinect only games sell like that.

[Bigpappy]

Well that is the whole point of having Kinect (creating new exclusive experiences to draw diffent people to the 360). The Move should be doing the same thing, not tacking on to DS3 games. How is that supposed to bring new people to PS3?

[gamer7804]

Actually Sony has not released sale numbers through to customers, only shipped numbers. This is on purpose. If they were truly selling well, they wouldn't need to show only shipped to stores numbers of individual move controllers they would show sales of the bundle pack, moves and navigation controller sales from stores to customers, but they don't. Its obvious that Kinect is in a greater share of households.

[ALFAxD_CENTAURO]

In October, PS Move Sold 2.5 Millions, not including Japan.

According to SCEE, PS Move sold 1.5 Millions in October. In America 1 Million.

2.5 Millions from October. Official numbers from October and from Sony.

VGCharts: ''1.6 million unique Move customers in homes worldwide''.

Lol.

[swat]

shipped not Sold
Sony don't count sold unit

[crazyclown]

unique lol this is complete bs...

[Death2494]

Educate yourself

http://spong.com/gateway?SC...

[Daoshai]

I own 3 controllers... PS Move is hard to keep track of, because most households need at least 2.

[Echo307]

@Death

But wait, that doesn't clarify anything. Sony says they sold 4.1 million units worldwide. If their two terms of retail sales and units shipped to retail are called sell-through and sell-in, how do we know which one they're actually talking about?

They said they sold 4.1 million. Sell-through or sell-in? I love my Move and my PS3 but 4.1 million seems a little heavy for units in the customer's hands.

[Jack Meahoffer]

What Daoshai said...

But understanding that concept requires you to think logically rather than just knee jerk rabid defense of master.

Each Kinect users only need one sensor to play all the games where as with Move a good majority of users buy 2 wands so they can experience all the games to the fullest potential.

Why this is so hard to understand is beyond me. Are we really to believe that 100% of the Move users only have 1 wand? Come now. Grow up children.

[rwarner174]

Jack Meahoffer,

I certainly don't believe everyone owns 2. So taking their sales base and dividing by 2 makes no sense. Just a guess but I would divide by 1.6

[Jack Meahoffer]

@ rwarner174

Fair enough. I can totally understand disagreeing with the percentage of unique users in this guess but look at all the comments. The Sony worshipers go right to crying bias basically skipping totally over the concept of users buying 2 wands so they can play archery and the gladiator game to the fullest.

That's all I'm saying not trying to attack Sony just by simply pointing out the hole in logic.

Thanks for the reply rather than blind attack like I normally get on this site.

[ct03]

<<I certainly don't believe everyone owns 2. So taking their sales base and dividing by 2 makes no sense. Just a guess but I would divide by 1.6 >>

Which is almost exactly what VGChartz did. They went with 1.55

[suckerpunch]

ps move sold 2.5 million in october ? or till october ? you are smoking crack aren't you ? even ipad didn't sell that fast.

[visualb]

why isn't this article marked under rumor?

its from Various Guessed Chartz =|

+ unique move users?

"There are 2.5 million unique Kinect customers and 1.6 million unique Move customers in homes worldwide, Kinect clearly has the edge at this point."

with a spin like that they are going to start a f*cking black hole!

f*ck that. if a customer bought 11 million move units, it would count as 11 million moves sold.

man this site is hilarious =D

[The-Tentacle]

Yet ANOTHER kinect/move sales damage control article. Surprised it took VGC this long to be honest. The whole site is a MS propaganda speaker bellowing out anti-competitive drizzle to the mindless fanboys.

Reminds me of Saving Private Ryan...

"The Satatue of Libery is Kaput!"

lol.

[kenkaniff]

People swear that Sony cares about "unique" move owners. All they care about is money. They don't care if one person has 4 move controllers.

[Zir0]

Just as expected Kinect has already passed the unique player installbase of Move.

Sony is really doing a disservice to publishers by not releasing sell-through numbers like MS. Its no wonder it doesn't have any exclusive 3rd party titles, publishers can obviously tell something is wrong if they aren't willing to tell the truth.

[kenkaniff]

Who cares about unique players. A sale is a sale. All of you guys crack me up. What about people who own 3 xbox 360s? Or people who own 2 PS3s? All of a sudden "unique" customers matters when the Kinect is released. This is some idiotic reporting.

[xXxSeTTriPxXx]

just as i expected, ps3 has already passed the unique player installbase of the xbox360.

[creeping judas]

how does one count Move's sold? I would think that the Move Bundle that comes with Sport's Champions would count as one. But what if someone only bought the PS3 Eye and a move controller, would that count? Or do the purchase of move periphials like the extra controllers count? I think it would be hard to come up with a real sales figure for move controllers due to nature of the packaging.

side note : Where's my Wizardy at??

[Pedobear Rocks]

Sony has already said...the numbers released are purely the bundle or the move controller....individual PS Eye and Navigation is not counted.

[Jack Meahoffer]

Yes Pedo but what abou the large number of Move users that bought 2 wands? The people up in arms are trying to claim that every Move wand sold is to a unique user.

It's a perfect example of logic fail. And watch everyone that points this out will be mega disagreed.

I can see disageeing with the percentage of unique users in this guess but I don't see that in comments. I see Sony fanboys crying bias like the love to do and repeating over and over 4.1 million. Shipped verus sold isnt really important to the topic of unique users.

[kenkaniff]

Who cares about unique customers? A sale is a sale!

[Exhaust]

Ken Unique user = 1 copy of each game sold

This sales "war" between Move and Kinect is to attract developers. It's risky to put money into adding motion to a core game or even worse more money on a motion exclusive game that is totally dependant on the device. Thats why add on peripherals are rarely successful unless your Nintendo at least.

[KILLERAPP]

So by this guys calculations and common sense they move have sold only 1.6 since its September 15 launch and Sony says it has ship over 4.1 million move, so let me get this straight that means there are over 2.5 million moves on the back of stores around the world that have not been sold and the store just ask for more when they haven’t even sold their previews shipments???? Does that make sense????

[L4DRocks]

Learn to read do people not bother clicking the link anymore and actually reading the whole article.

It says 2.5 million Move controllers have been sold but some of that 2.5 million is just the same person buying more than one controller. So the actual install base is 1.6 "unique users". Which is still pretty good I don't see how that is bad.

Plus didn't Michael Pacther say a similar thing as well that Sony has over shipped move by a lot. I don't see how it doesn't make sense there are 1.6 millions moves out there it's pretty easy to make sense of if you "read" it.

[Death2494]

@ L4Drocks

How do you caculate which individual user bought more than one controller? That's a really lame attempt to say Sony hasn't sold 4.1 million. You too need to educate yourselves. Microsoft is the only company use applies it's shipped numbers as sold. It's alo funny because there is a shortage of PS Move controllers and an abundance of Kinects on the shelves.

Sony and Nintendo reports sold to consumer since 2006:
http://spong.com/gateway?SC...

[heroprotagonist]

If you think Nintendo or Sony report anything but untis sold to retail I have some beach front property to sell you in Arizona.

[JasonW1972]

You keep telling people to educate themselves, yet you seem ignorant of the fact that Sony themselves confirmed that they "shipped" 4.1 move units to retailers:

http://www.joystiq.com/2010...

As for the unique user calculation from VGChartz, that sounds like a total guesstimate on their part. I don't even think Sony could figure that one out. But based on your link, Sony could release their sell-through numbers for the Move if they chose to. Take from that what you will.

[ct03]

<<How do you caculate which individual user bought more than one controller?>>

How about you read the article? They surveyed PS Move owners and came up with an average of 1.55 Move controllers per owner.

[Ju]

" I don't even think Sony could figure that one out. "

We have Patcher for that. If nobody else can see it, he can. /s

And, well, in this case "sell through" is rhetorical. Sure Sony uses the number on purpose to come up with a larger number. And yet, it's not like the controllers stay on the shelfs for too long. Saying "sell through is 2.5M" is a guess - simply you can pull any number out of your ass which fits your agenda.

"We sold 4.1M to stores and they are asking for more" is also something what Sony said. Maybe that's a blatant lie, but still that came from an official channel.

[Biggest]

What people say at random times of their life is not important. JasonW1972 might have a case. . . If it wasn't just some guy saying some things. Go check Sony's official quarterly statement when it's available. That is when you will get accurate numbers. They are required by law to report accurate information in those reports. It isn't word of mouth. It isn't some guy saying something that he can retract minutes later because of an innocent mistake. It is printed and published as truth and must be so. Sony has not lied about anything until they lie on those reports. Microsoft has not lied about anything until they lie on those reports. VGChartz is and will always be fake. They will lie about everything because they won't know anything until everyone knows. Anything they say before everyone knows, is a lie.

[GeoramA]

VGchartz, doing M$'s bidding as usual.

[fr0sty]

Wow. This stoops to a new low. "OK, they said 4.1 million, so let's say 2.5 million but then spin it by cutting that number almost in half with a guesstimate, so we can report 1.6 million in the headline as if it were coming from some other official source other than our asses."

[Biggest]

They're like drug dealers. They take the solid product and cut it up with battery acid and baking soda and sell it to their sales loving addicts.

[WacksOnWacksOff]

Learn to read, fr0sty. Seriously, it's been pointed out by other people here already. READ THE ARTICLE...

4.1 million controllers shipped.

2.5 million controllers sold to customers.

Survey of Move owners determined that average Move owner bought 1.55 Move controllers.

2.5 million divided by 1.55 gives you 1.6 million Move "setups" currently in homes.

Seriously. READ the article BEFORE posting about it. It's not rocket science, people...

[VideeoGaamer]

I love your avantar, thumbs up to you good sir, you have good taste in movies and actors :)

[clrlite]

"VGChartz estimates show that the total number of Move controllers sold-through is now just over 2.5 million units worldwide" - Thanks for the "nonbiased" estimate.

"an estimate that Wedbush Morgan analyst Michael Pachter agrees with." - Ohhhhh, now i know it's trustworthy!(even though you still haven't provided any empirical evidence in the article.)

The author uses the word "estimates" quite a bit. So hopefully, it's clear to the reader that these are only estimates. Which may or may not be biased.

[AXEFACE]

I told them it was kind of strange to validate their numbers with numbers from other estimates.. and got banned for "being annoying" :D

[Masterchef2007]

These numbers must be way off. I guess its normal for VG charts to be off by alot. And yes i read the article on the unique user thing.

[Perkel]

1,6 unique users for move ?

wtf they are smoking ?

[sayonara89]

IDK but Ballmer is smoking the same stuff http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[MajestieBeast]

From the site that brought you Sony only sold 38 million when sony themselves already said they sold 41million. I mean this is the only way they can make it look like kinect is killing the move(as if). 500million can buy alot of reviews and crappy kinect cheerleader articles and fake sales.

[Inzo]

And yet not Move or Kinect are selling systems, this must be a worrying factor for both Sony and MS.

[metsgaming]

So what does vgchartz count as "unique" ??? They never say anything like 44 million xboxs sold but only 40 million are unique units because many xbots are on their 3rd or 4th console.

[Inzo]

LOL....True!

[sayonara89]

LOL

11/10 :D

[saumer]

double clicked..

[saumer]

3 of those xbox's are mine. Please subtract 2 from that 44 million.

[maniacmayhem]

Say goodbye to regular controllers and hello to flailing your arms around.

[Parapraxis]

I have move..I don't flail when I use it.....

[GoodGuy]

Damage Control is at full speed. All aboard fake-chart train!

[NicSage]

I own the Move, I could care less about the Kinect.

I'm playing games I want to with precision. Sports Champions, MAG, Heavy Rain. Soon to be Under Siege a RTS. I hope Blizzard realizes they can do the Diablo series on the console because of the Move that would be so awesome.

I have a feeling we are going to see more and more RTS on the PS3 due to the Move's capability to give true accuracy that is needed for that style of game. I love RTS games.

[dead_eye]

What's all this unique consumer crap. If one person buys 2 move controllers I'm sure Sony don't class it as 1 sale.

[MajestieBeast]

Yeah microsoft sure isnt complaining about people buying 3 or more xboxes cause they died on em with either E74 or rrod. I have 1 move controller with a nav controller and im happy im unique...

[BIGBOSS08]

its all bullshit. i dont give a damn if 1 person buys 100 move controllers. they still count as 100 sales, not 1. these sites need to find something better to write.

[clintos59]

Move is doing very well. Kinect got most of their sales with free give aways at burger king.

[ct03]

They gave away about 3,500 during the Burger King promotion. Clearly that accounts for most of their sales.

[klashawnd]

Where's the "Xbox 360 has sold 45 million units, but only 30 million are unique users due to RROD"... article from VGChartz? Lol this site is fake as hell, even Aaron Greenberg called them out for their made up numbers.

[MDC31]

Greenburg: "LOL'ing at sales reports from VGChartz, why do people release info as official when there is no source or science behind the #s?"

[BIGBOSS08]

hes right though, how can they get accurate worldwide sales with the method they use? polling.

[blackburn5]

I don't understand what some people are talking about. what difference does it make if one person buys 4 Moves as opposed to one person buying one Kinect? If I sell 4 Moves to one person doesn't that still count as 4 sales? Why does everyone count that as one sale? If I buy two HDTVs does that count as one sale? Won't the people selling it count it as two TVs sold? The fact that one person would buy 4 Moves isn't that a good thing? How does everyone know that the 2.5 million Kinects sold have lots of new users? How much of that is people who already have 360s? How are you so sure that 1.8 million of that are just original 360 owners? The Psychic powers that N4G is so famous for?

[Jack Meahoffer]

It's simple really. The war to sell these things is to attract developers. If a user buys 4 Move wands they won't be buying 4 copies of each game they buy. Make sense now?

Not everything is an attack against Sony.

[rwarner174]

They will both sell enough over time to attract developers. Actually move doesn't need to sell as much being as it looks like most games it is used for it will be an additional control method. Kinect may face a greater challenge because it is not setup that way.

[Vesemir]

I wonder what's with those articles, doing everything possible to diminish Move.

Are those guys mentally sane ??? It's getting embarassing.....
Jesus.... I'm almost laughing.

[Gleniatorix]

lmao "unique" how whould they even track that?

[saumer]

Magic

[raztad]

VGC estimates that 7 of every 10 MOVE users bought a second controller, or so I read.

[Jack Meahoffer]

Sounds fair to me. Everyone I know that has Move has 2 wands because they want to play archery to the fullest.

Is 7 of 10 really a biased guess?

[Dark_king]

Still looking for a second Move.The guy at walmart said there having a hard time keeping them stocked didn't even have any bundles.An yes I was going to just buy another bundle for a second Move.

[Gleniatorix]

pretty sure that "estimate" was pulled straight out of their ass lol

[djreplay]

I've estimated that I've already wasted 5 minutes of my time reading this article.

[kungfuian]

Let's talk about software sales, which in the end is really going to matter most.

From a software sales perspective seems like move would be a better bet for devs(port ur wii games or do wii/move multi-plats and sell to their combined install base). Because of this move is well placed to piggyback on the wiis success.

Kinect cannot piggyback off the wii's install base for software support/sales, beacuae it's too unique for multi-plats or ports. That means the install base is very limited for software sales.

[BIGBOSS08]

they cant even get accurate hardware sales never mind these motion controllers. why do they still bother when most people dont take them seriously? even microsoft took the piss out of them. thats just pure embarrassment on their end.

[kenjix]

Also of note but probably not mentioned in the article as usual is kinect was the only system to spend 500 million in marketing. So i wonder if they will start to mention that and how the wii did it by word of mouth and the ps3 as a soft launch?? Inquiring minds want to know, but US media don’t want to tell you that.....

[BabyTownFrolics]

you figured it out, go to the woods and stay there to claim your reward.

I wish I was a mod on this site, there would be a day of reckoning, all these flame bait articles would be banished. I realize that the article itself may not have wanted to be flame bait but most of the folks on N4G are not mature enough to be civil in situations like these. so the articles and the repeat offender trolls and misanthropes would be out the door.

no more sacrificing the joys of gaming for hits and ad dollars.

[Dakidog]

As PC World's gamer guru Matt Peckham recently pointed out, reporting on sales numbers can be a tricky thing. It turns out Sony's claim of selling 4.1 million PS Move units since September only represents how many device's have been sold by Sony to retail chains, and not by retail stores to home users. For all we know, there could be 2.5 million PS Move boxes sitting on store shelves worldwide, and only 1.6 million devices actually being used. That's unlikely, but possible.

It's also important to note the PS Move could actually be in more than 4.1 million homes worldwide since Sony's figure doesn't count stand-alone sales of the PS Move (i.e. devices not sold with a console) or the PlayStation Eye camera--an accessory you need to use the PS Move controller.

http://www.pcworld.com/arti...

VGC just needs to stfu sometimes or use common sense....quite tired of them at this point. I for one count as a customer who bought 2 stand alone move controllers because I already had a PS eye from getting eye of judgment free, I'm sure they're many more customers out there like me who bought the stand alone controllers.

[BabyTownFrolics]

both are selling well, why must you folks always fight and why must you flock to articles that instigate that fight.

you realize that a majority of gamers could give a fuck about this and are too busy having fun. give it a rest and get back to whats fun about gaming, and stop looking for avenues to express your misplaced anger.

[Primetimebt]

Vgchartz charts lmao.. They can't even get there sales numbers right and now they're doing sell threw numbers..

[Clarence]

The second issue with Move is that many customers will be buying more than one controller - something that VGChartz has attempted to factor in to previous estimates to give a comparable figure in terms of userbase. Consumer polling carried out over a sample of 100 PlayStation Move owners shows that the average number of controllers per Move setup is 1.55. Using this, we can estimate that the number of unique Move-compatible PS3s out there is now just over 1.6 million worldwide.

Well I would like to know how many unique 360's have been sold to consumers because of RROD. I know for a fact that many have puchased extra 360's because of this. Why dont they factor in those numbers when they do the totals for how many 360's have been sold to date.

[0oAngeluso0]

I knew it! I knew it! I knew it! I knew it!
I tried to tell people this. Sony counts any Wand, Nunchuk or PS EYE as a "Move" sale, plus they keep using, "units shipped" which doesn't bother me as much as the whole lack of ability to count unique owners. I figure the best way to track that is by the software, which Move games are selling like crud right now, so there ya go.

[kenkaniff]

Did you even read the article yesterday? They do not count the nunchuk or the eye sold separately. You would trust vgchartz over a Sony report to shareholders. This is laughable at best.

[Primetimebt]

How does one chart a PS Move sold? EYE Toy, Controller, bundle kit? If sony is taking bundle kit numbers than how many people who brought a camera, and controller separate like me>

[kenkaniff]

Who cares about unique players. A sale is a sale. All of you guys crack me up. What about people who own 3 xbox 360s? Or people who own 2 PS3s? All of a sudden "unique" customers matters when the Kinect is released. This is some idiotic reporting.

[AXEFACE]

Agreed!

And to estimate 1.5 MOVE controllers in order to establish unique userbase is like calculating console hardware based on how many DS3s there are out there. Its retarded.

[jneul]

it's so it can be spun to the kinects favour but anyho, these are not real figures but a random figure pulled out of the hat, how can you buy 1.5 move controllers lol i guess we all must be buying move without spheres and that means we really are buying wiimotes lol

[MultiConsoleGamer]

Vgchartz numbers are completely fictional.

[gypsygib]

Isn't VG Chartz the same site that underestimated PS3 sales by around 2 million a month ago.

[KongRudi]

Neither Microsoft or Sony knows how much is on the store-shelves, they sell to stores, and get new orders from stores. That's what they know.

Microsoft has sold 2,5 million units, and Sony has sold 4,1 million units.

Microsoft isn't any more reliable than VGChartz, because they don't count how much each store has in stock at the end of the week, it's the stores who count their stock, not Aron Greenberg.

It's the stores job to sell the products to consumers.
The chain who's going to ship me my 2nd move-controller and a gift-starter-pack and a second controller for my nephew and niece's christmas-gift, get's 61 extra move-controllers today.

Sony dosn't know about that yet.
Sony has no control over how many I buy and when, or if someone is to embarassed to buy a dildo and chooses to buy a move-controller instead, or how many units are lying on the store-shelves.

They only know how many units they've sent to stores, and when the store-chain is ordering more units from them.
And stores won't order more than they expect to sell in a reasonable short time, because storage-space cost money, and products can also drop in price. :)

So giving shipped numbers isn't done in order to deceive someone, it's given because those numbers are the accurate numbers wich they know.

[DiRtY]

Well deserved Kinect. Well deserved.

[DiRtY]

Well deserved Kinect. Well deserved.

And lol at N4G community failing again to read. I know you guys couldn't read financial reports, but I didn't know you can't even read articles.

[jneul]

lol right move sold 3m minimum, i already told them that but anyway wheres my blinders lol