Dragon Age: Inquisition Gay Romances Controversy

David Gaider says Bioware is not backing away from supporting queer gamers.

[Gunstar75]

Is this still controversial?

[OC_MurphysLaw]

I wish they would just do away with the "romance" altogether as it adds little value to the Bioware games.

[beachgirl324]

Yeah half the time the only reason I start a new play through is to go through a romance. I love the romances.

[Spinal]

Seriously? The game is not even out yet. I'll wait to play it before I start screaming rabble rabble.

[SilentNegotiator]

"Seriously? The game is not even out yet"

Bioware probably orchestrated this "controversy" by making sure to post the right materials and making sure it got to the right people.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

Let me expand on my thought. I don't have an issue with Gay people or those of other ethnic back ground or disabilities. My issue with any of Biowares "romances" is they always feel like they are put into the game for no other reason than to say they "have them in game". They don't play any part of the actual plot of the story and there is no importance to any one characters romantic feelings toward your character. It never matters who you pick to romance...other than an acheivement/trophy.

[osprey19]

Oh come on! They have to cater for each sexuality if they plan to do romance storylines.

[Ogygian]

Subjective comment. Think of twenty random movies and let me know how many *don't* have a romantic subplot or two.

For the people out there who aren't in a happy relationship, are over ten years old or prefer deep, meaningful games over CoD/FIFA, romances can be a very enjoyable and interesting part of the game.

I honestly wouldn't buy Dragon Age games if they didn't feature such romances for more than £5. Without them, they're shallow refuse to me, much like Kingdoms of Amalur.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

@spartenlemur the difference is the romances in those movie plots actually has a bearing on the narrative vs the romances that Bioware makes which have no bearing on plot or impact the main character in any reasonable way outside of being some side quest for a trophey or achievement. People older than 10yrs old should be able to easily see how paper thin the romantic options are in Bioware games.

[nope111]

There are people still unable to accept gays in 2014. Sad really.

[Applejack]

I see what you mean. I personally don't agree with it, but I accept the fact that people can choose what they want.

[Salooh]

There are people despite knowing it's a mistake and sick in every side they convert it to something normal and make the people who against it bad. Sad really

You see what i did there ?. Your comment is your opinion but don't hate people who lived against this for hundreds of years. Movies just recently brainwashed you and made it seem like it's acceptable.

I can feel sad for you too for having NO boundary .

Hope this is not offensive , if it is then ban me lol. I try my best to avoid words that makes you sensitive and get me banned xP . But that's what i feel when people bring the subject.

[frostypants]

@14Feb-R, people also used to think slavery was acceptable for thousands of years. By your standards I guess we can assume that you're upset that it's considered unethical today.

[Salooh]

Nope , my people thought slavery is a bad thing for more then hundreds of years too ^^ . I'm not upset :) . Because i know more bad things will be normal. I'm accepting that fate But i'm not giving up because that will harm us, trying my best to advice and avoid these things from my people :P

Our point of view if something have more bad then good then it's not acceptable ;). It's for the good of all people. All creatures. And most important is GOD will .

I don't mind if you people think it's ok but i don't feel comfortable that you demand us to be more open when you are not open to our thinking too :P .

Just my opinions , my facts , my side . Hope it's not offensive but that's how we see it here. I acknowledge yours but you need to do the same for us.

[mike32UK]

@Applejack I don't think people actually 'choose' to be gay, they just are. Just as we don't choose to be straight, we just are

[osprey19]

@mike32uk
u have hit the nail on the head mate, just prepare for usual backlash from any homophobes

[osprey19]

@14feb-r
people have about as much choice to be gay as u do being left or right handed, u r born that way.
being against the idea that homosexuality isn't normal will soon be in the room of outdated thinking along side sexism and racism.
and i cannot open my mind to 'your thinking' as its immoral to not accept someone as equal just because they are not like you, and its often just religious dogma. That i cannot accept as correct.
maybe 50 years ago alot more people would agree with you. And its not through brainwashing or godlessness that causes it, its just the idea that we are all different, and that's ok.
u r different to me, that's ok. But if u cant accept the same thing, i dnt wanna hear it.
not that i cant accept a person with different views, i just dnt have to agree with u.

[Lord_Sloth]

That's not it at all. There are still homosexual relationships in this game. Just not every character swings both ways as it is in the real world.

However, ask yourselves does being able to fondle the same piping change the game expertise any at all? Hell, if you couldn't romance anybody at all I'd still get, play, and love it. Why does gaming have to be a political battleground?

[Salooh]

Good discussion but it can be better ^^ . We both should know our sides well then judge ^^.

I'm not accepting gay , because it's negative side is more then good. That's the reason , it's not that they are different then us or anything else you say . That's our standers and thinking. Hope you get it :) .

I don't believe that people are born straight or gay. That's not true at all because that decision comes after struggling of questioning the person to him self. These questions comes because of the environment and the way this person raised. If someone for example raised well he won't steal , it comes from a person who had issues with his understanding of life. So it's not natural , it's just like anything bad like stealing and killing with no reasonable reason.

My religion forbid it but it's not for nothing. The bad stuff that gay influence and do to society are well known. That's why it's forbidden. What i'm saying is that you judge us in the name of freedom but this kind of blind freedom lead to disasters to many people. If you accept it then that's your choice but i'm not. It's like asking me to raise my children to accept anything . That's how tooo open mind(sickness). Open mind would be logic where you prevent bad stuff. Gay is bad in our eyes. I'm not letting anyone in my people to be like that.

As long we are in peace we are ok with different opinions. Your society think it's ok then good for you but mine is not ok with it because we have reason not just religion forbid it. My religion = logic and reality . There are things we don't understand and that's where religion protect us from. For example eating pigs is forbidden and people were saying we are crazy but science now showed that it's bad . This is just one example ^^ . Hope you get my side this time lol

[LetoAtreides82]

@14Feb, Even if a person were raised by the perfect family that person can still end up doing bad things. Jeffrey Dahmer was never abused yet he turned out to be a monster.

[AgentSmithPS4]

@14Feb-R "Movies just recently brainwashed you and made it seem like it's acceptable."
What brainwashed you into thinking it's acceptable to tell two or more consenting adults what they can or can't do with each other? Humans of all types can be dangerous and disease ridden so be careful who you play with.

I can't blame the movies, maybe it was the internet that made me want to be a shapeshifter that could turn into an attractive lesbian with a retractable penis.

[Ogygian]

There's a big difference between treating homosexuals as equals and putting them up on a pedestal as betters.

If you look at the numbers, and take an open mind in trying to be fair to everyone, you'll realise that these claims have zero merit, and that just one LGBT romance option is a gift (5% of the population were born homosexual, which means one in twenty party members would be if they used real world stats; there is no reason to change this number)

Yes there are homophobic people in this world, but there are also social justice zealots. I am not homophobic, but then I suppose supporting genuine mathematical fairness in the modern world gets you branded "homophobic" or worse.

[SilentNegotiator]

It is in the land of media.

On one hand you have talking heads that dive headfirst into material they already know will offend them. On the other, you have groups that call "homophobia" if someone farts next to a gay person. And lastly, stories like this have a certain shock value to them, so all of media is glad to hop aboard.

[SaturdayNightBeaver]

Leaves me with impression that most people are interested in in-game romances more than , you know.. Dragon Age 3 :) Pretty sad that this is even news.

[Belasco]

Agreed, why is this still a thing? On a side note, I really dislike romance of any sort in my games, their are other ways to become attached to characters.

[powney91]

I'm glad they're sticking to their guns. They're creating a system where a character can romance any gender, if that's what an individual player chooses to do. The fact that someone can be angry at that is astonishing.

[Sly-Lupin]

Well, a fraction of that anger can be justified by how poorly Bioware implements romances. Hamfisted writing aside, they consistently err by making NPCs initiate romance with the player, rather than the reverse.

[Baka-akaB]

I dont mind sticking to their guns , but if anything , gays and heteros alike should be baffled at the way it was handled , and how Gaider keeps pretending bigotry is the only issue and source of complaints .

In DA2 , Anders would come at you worse than the most flirtatious and free spirited women of the game . He'd be very insistant , turning almost all conversation into a matter of courtship , and then be mad at you for not answering favorably , even when polite , to his crap .

Why such grievance from any gender and character , when as specified , it's an optional content ?

[Ratty]

Yeah Anders was really annoying about that. He was annoying about a lot of other things as well. A bit too much of a drama queen in DA2 if you ask me. Much preferred him in Awakening. I know what happened between the games but it was still lame to so drastically change his personality because of that.

[Myze]

I can agree somewhat about Anders (I think if you are in a relationship with someone else, and tell him no a couple of times, he stops, and it's not that bad), he is definitely my least favorite character in DA2. I actually like most of the characters in DA2, even if the game was just average, especially compared to the first. I would not have had that big of a problem with Anders being so whiny and annoying if he wasn't probably the most useful character in the game besides Hawke.

As for the romance thing, I don't really care about some of the characters being gay, as long as it's not more than, say, one per gender, otherwise it would feel like a forced situation. Also, I agree with most that the relationships in DA1 and 2 were all pretty much useless, with a couple of exceptions like a fond statement during the story instead of friendly statement. However, I don't really understand people feeling so strongly about getting rid of romances all together, since it's INCREDIBLY easy to ignore them altogether. They just need to make them feel more organic, and less like another side-mission or completely pointless, if they want to do it. Maybe something like a special ability if that character is your lover (to go along with the special ability for friend vs rival). Also, maybe tie in the relationship to the storyline in a much bigger way (mainly the ending). However, I think the reason they DON'T have anything really special is because they don't want the player to feel like they have to follow a relationship path.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

@powney91, but what importance to the game does the romance play? So far Biowares track record shows the romance is merely an achievement/trophy pop and nothing more. I would say the vast majority of people do the romance for the cheap thrill they think they may get in the climax of the romance thread or they do it because an achievement is tied to it. They have yet to prove the "romances" truly add anything to the actual story.

[-Foxtrot]

"Queer" gamers

God I hate that word...just say Gay or homosexual.

[elninels]

Yes, thank you. "queer gamers" Is definitely not a good way to reference people.

[HarryMasonHerpderp]

Yes it's actually gay or homosexual. Saying Queer is offensive.

[Mikefizzled]

I'd have written 'same sex relationships' personally. Less stigma attached to it.

[extermin8or]

Alternatively ypu cpuld just say "gamers".... I'd fall into the heterosexual catagory but I dont see what the relevance of which way you go really is... its meant to be optional if you want to make it part of the story then have it in the questions your character always gets asked at the start of rpgs like this. Depending on which way you answer decides whether or not the character that is involved for your story is male or female... simple really. They write all these other story branches would one like that be so hard? Keeps everyone happy this way...

[AgentSmithPS4]

It's quite queer, the peculiar power some words hold over particular people. I'm not offended by any word unless it's being used to 'attack' someone that can't avoid it.

[SLUG]

YES DO A WAY OF THIS BAD SEX IN GAMES
we do not need this trash in games having this in games adds the value of games really looks bad
people just want a clean and good game
if we want real sex we just have sex with are wife not from a video game MY GOD THEIR ARE KIDS OUT THERE

[nope111]

Not sure if serious......

[Baka-akaB]

If serious what is your kid even doing with DA2 in their hands , even if there is worse ? And if it was for you , then pick a time and place where they can't see the game .

[Majin-vegeta]

The fact that this series is rate "M" for "Mature".Kids should be the last thing playing this game.

[AgentSmithPS4]

Thank you for the laugh.

Sex of all kinds in games is good clean fun, no mess, no disease, no kids reducing your gaming time, etc ;).

MY GOD THEIR OUR TOO MANY KIDS OUT THERE, in US of a about 1 out of 5 kids goes to bed hungary. PLEAZ GET VASECTOMY FOUR OVERPOPULATION PREVENTION!

[Drithe]

I'm not buying this game. I don't want ROMANCE in my game. Gay stuff either for that matter since I am not gay. I didn't think they needed the sex scenes in God of War either though.

[SilentNegotiator]

I find gay elf on human sex offensive and I request that everyone else be offended also.

lol

[creeping judas]

"You're a racist!!" - Craig Ferguson

[AgentSmithPS4]

Ty for reminding me that I need to see some lesbian elf porn, I've heard tell that they do everything a human does, only better.

[cfc83]

I dont think people who had a dlc message at the end of a game are in a position to preach morales. Screw the poofery and make games please.

[NightOfBlades]

They shouldn't back down. It's something that needs to be addressed.

[Activemessiah]

Whole thing sounds a bit gay.

[SovereignSnaKe]

This.. Again. I thought people stopped being such bigot douche bags after the Mass Effect Controversy, which honestly feels like it was a decade ago. No one cares about this Country's outdated "Puritan Morales & Values". Let them make the game they want to make, the people complaining should take up a Less gay hobby, like knitting.

[darksky]

I wonder if any enemies will be gay.
Then you could kill the buggers... ;)

Sorry just had to get that joke in.

[PFFT]

Doesnt bother me at all, live and let live i say. BUT hopefully you can start a romance with more then one women for us Polygamists. Also why should Polygamy be frowned upon BUT yet a homosexual relationship is fine with most masses?? I say this is BS we should raise against this injustice my polygamist brothers!!!!!

[user9558903]

This is stupid. It's 2014. Wether you agree with it or not it shouldn't be an issue anymore.

[NarooN]

I swear, the only news I hear about this game anymore is just romance-related crap. Is that all the game will be? Jesus.

[Saryk]

If it was up to me, you could screw everything, especially the dragon!

[Ogygian]

Lol romancing a dragon would be...memorable...

[Myze]

Maybe they will have an option to romance Flemeth. MILF love shouldn't be denied either, along with everything else. She could transform for you if you get your trust and love meter up high enough.

[MasterD919]

It's a game. Period....

[LightDiego]

That's an absurd! Female protagonists and now this?
Vladimir Putin for president of the world now!

[Ogygian]

I find these comments to be incredibly unfair. Assuming that around 5% of the population (and therefore DA playerbase) are homosexual, (that's actually the most liberal estimate I could find) then only 1 in 20 players get to experience these romances.

Why should Bioware invest equal time into non-heterosexual romances when only 5% of the players will ever use see them? Seriously, I'm about as liberal as you can get, but people need to stop calling for unfairness "in the name of fairness".

If they want to be fair to all players they should invest 20 times the work into the heterosexual romances, and if they want to reflect reality, we'd realistically only see maybe one non-heterosexual party member per two games. Homosexuals are overrepresented as it is!

That said, I think it's a good thing there's something there for the minority of homosexual players, just so they have a romance to pursue if they like.

Dragon Age is set in fantasy world based off medieval Europe. While Thedas is quite liberal, I don't see any reason why the percentage of people born homosexual would differ from reality. One has to imagine how difficult it would be to find another member of this 5% to start a relationship with without the aid of internet dating or LGBT events.

We have to be fair to all players here, and that means putting effort in proportionally to match the preferences of the wider user-base (once a basic option for all significant groups has been provided).

[myala509]

Gaider said the magic in Thedas raised the percentage of homosexuality to 50%. And he said if you do not beleive that, than why are you playing a game with dragons, dwarves and elves.

[Ogygian]

Because fantasy is never "just fantasy". All playable species are humanoids. Accents are relatable. The grass is green, not purple, the sky is blue and the creatures are familiar (not flying candy unicorns).
There are degrees of fantasy, with Harry Potter representing a low degree and LotR/Dragon Age reflecting a higher degree.

But my point really is why would the figure be more than 5% unless the authors have a dishonest agenda? There is no rational reason to change the figure other than pressing an unfair agenda to make LGBT players have a better experience than heterosexuals, rather than simply an equally enjoyable experience.

Let me put it this way.

In the fantasy world of a gay man (without conservatism), 95% of the people in the world are also gay men, with a 5% "diversity allowance" of women and other sexualities. This is so as to maximise the potential number of sexual partners, which makes perfect logical sense. I'm not saying they want to see the real world like this, due to the costs involved in establishing it, but if I were gay, this is the world I would want to fantasise about.

A straight man (without conservatism) fantasises about a world which is 95% women, with a 5% "diversity allowance" of homosexual/heterosexual men and homosexual women. A straight woman (without conservatism) would probably hope for the reverse.

Thus, in order to democratically balance out the concerns of all parties (without conservatism) Bioware would create a world where (assuming the proportion of players is 5% LGBT, 70% straight male and 25% straight female), around 70% of the characters are heterosexual women, 25% heterosexual men and 5% LGBT. (70W, 25M, 5H)

If we now take into account the conservatism of players who may want a more familiar world, then assuming men are the most conservative, we'll see those figures move closer to *real life* figures.

So let's now say (50W, 45M, 5H) which is almost exactly the proportion of real life genders.

Point: having 50% gay characters makes LGBT players happy (with surplus) at the expense of heterosexual players. If Bioware want to be fair to everyone, they should use the real life gender balance.

[mogwaii]

Im a gay male 36yrs old, been gaming since i was 6 and ive been forced to play through heterosexual roles in games my entire life, the first representation of gay people i remember was in gta and that was a limp wristed, girly stereotype, i am so thankful to have a company like bioware representing me as a human.