Microsoft: eSRAM Being Too Small For 1080p Output Is "Clearly Not The Case"

Microsoft: eSRAM Being Too Small For 1080p Output Is "Clearly Not The Case"

[porkChop]

So his excuse is Forza, the game that was severely downgraded, and Kinect Sports Rivals... Nevermind all the other games that struggled with performance and had to run in 720p or 900p. I don't mind some games not being 60fps, depending on the genre, but I will not accept any next gen games that aren't 1080p.

[Naga]

If you care so much about resolution that you would be willing to forego any gaming experience that doesn't present itself in native 1080p, then perhaps you are barking up the wrong tree in looking to consoles for your gaming solution.

[porkChop]

I have a gaming PC as well. I'm just sick and tired of the PS3/360 gens blurry image and poor pixel clarity due to the games not running in native res. Image clarity is more important to me than anything else graphically.

[Joe913]

Each console only has been out a few months Xbox will get to 1080p @ 60fps they just have to get used to the hardware the eSRAM held them back so they could not get it out the gate but they will get there and right now I do not think it matters but when VR becomes more of a thing I think resolution will make a difference will lower resolution mean easier motion sickness if that is true that is the only major downfall of the resolution difference.

[abstractel]

Of course if you lower the graphics enough you can get games running in 1080p. There are 1080p games available on the last gen machines. Problem for MS is, will what the expectations of the current generation run in 1080p on the XboxOne?

There will definitely be games on the XboxOne that run in 1080p, just like Forza, but I think few people who know what they are talking about think those games will stack up to PS4 games graphically.

Also as a side note, shame on the gaming media for not calling out the discrepancies of the E3 build to the release build of Forza. It's a significant difference.

[afterMoth]

Clearly not the case, unless you are playing Titanfall, COD, BF4, Ryse,Assassin's Creed, Killer Instinct, Thief, Dead Rising 3.

Good news is they were able to get LocoCycle at 1080p.

[ProjectVulcan]

If we examine the 'issue' of 1080p it stems a lot from the idea Xbox One is supposed to be a 'next gen' console from the 360 and PS3 owners out there. Therefore they do expect an upgrade from the native resolution of their old home consoles.

You could point to the fact 1280 x 720 is now an average smartphone resolution, and tablets have increasing resolutions that people also game on.

Reasoning here is that if you are going to spend north of £400 on a dedicated games console, it should be outperforming other 'lesser' mobile platforms in every way, including resolution.

What is also unfortunate (or Microsoft's own doing if you prefer) is that PS4 is faster, and much better equipped to manage 1080p native resolutions.

It is completely natural to compare the two consoles I'm afraid, they ARE in competition with each other. When you buy most products, you would compare rival solutions as well.

Microsoft are going to have to stop this sort of response.

They have to shift their focus from the resolution and graphics debate because they will always find themselves on the losing side against a more powerful machine.

The smart way is to focus on their own system and it's strengths, and it's games. They have to try and explain why they believe their machine is worth what it is and why it should be chosen over PS4 for the average consumer.

[morganfell]

@thunderbear:

http://static.gamespot.com/...

[GameNameFame]

What resolution is Titanfall?

Oh right. LOL

[minimur12]

clearly.

[morganfell]

It is just going to keep getting worse Mr Harrison: http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

[tagan8tr]

@thunderbear couldn't agree more. With few exceptions the game coverage Media skew their articles, reviews and video coverage to their own personal bias, what company paid them and the overall opinion of the staff where they work. I think for us to take this coverage serious IGN/Gamespot/whoever needs to post criteria points for how they review games and hardware. Once posted stick to that mission statement. The flavor of the month review style is unintelligent and worthless..

[dedicatedtogamers]

1080p is not the be-all-end-all. And the arguement that "this game should be 1080p. or bust" is silly because there are a ton of other things to take into account (texture quality, assets on screen, physics, etc). Arguing from that standpoint is a strawman.

BUT the reason why 1080p had become such a hot-button issue is because the cheaper console is pulling off 1080p and higher framerate with nearly all of its multiplats, while the more expensive console is struggling to do so.

THAT is why it's an issue.

The limitation of eSRAM is well-documented and it certainly holds the X1 back. Will talented devs be able to work around it? Sure. Will talented devs be able to work around it to the point where the X1 version matches or exceeds the PS4 version? No, not likely.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

Well the more expensive console has Kinect which forces the price up. And with 10% of X1 power was use for Kinect on top of ESRAM.

Plus the overall weaker specs.

MS could pull off 1080p much easier if the specs were like PS4's while doing things like reserved power for Kinect and ESRAM they would still have enough power to do 1080p.

This tug of war of word over PR with MS and its console is wearing very thin.

I just want the games. Is that so hard to ask?

[Kingthrash360]

thank you^^
(thanking is needed when people make sense)
too much beating around the bush...the true words are straight to the point and clear..
so tired of pr bs.

[Bennibop]

@True_Samurai this is true but the same can be said for x1 with games languishing under 30fps,deadrising less than 24fps, Tombraider drops below 25fps which is far more noticeable

[Sammy777]

@true samurai
TR dipped to as low as 18 fps on xbox 1 .Ryse ran at 18 fps at 900p. Not to mention even COD ran at 720p on xbox one along with many other titles. Knack ran at 1080p. There are like 6 xbox one titles which run at 720p only . Bf4 ran at 60 fps 900p on ps4 and 720p 50 fps on xb1. cod after the patch runs at 30fps on xb1

[elninels]

@truesamurai

Blame AMD.

[EXVirtual]

@True_Samarai
The order is not 800p. It's a 1080p game in a letterbox. 1920x800 (what you call 800p) is basically 1080p in a letter box.

[scott182]

@True_Samurai

Actually it is as powerful as people claim, because it is more powerful than the X1, with much proof of the fact. Is there a valid argument to prove otherwise? Most games run well above 30 fps at 1080p also.

[frostypants]

@dedicatedtogamers: Well said. 1080p at the cost of, say, good anti-aliasing is not something everyone would want. ESRAM is holding back the One in general but it isn't preventing 1080p...it just makes it harder to achieve without sacrifice elsewhere. Your's is the best post in this thread.

[Edsword]

Devs may get xb1 games to 1080p, but I actually think that is unlikely. As PS4 tech improves it will become harder to get XB1 games to 1080p and have all the same bells and whistles as the PS4 version. This likely means xb1 games will keep the lower res in order to retain parity in other elements. After all the upscaler on the xb1 is pretty good. There is a reason MS is looking to further improve their upscaling tech.

[Utalkin2me]

@Irishguy95

Kinect is forced upon is the major problem. What if you had to buy a TV and it cost more cause it came with a blu ray player. But you could find another TV that performs better and doesn't have the blu ray player that you don't want or need and is alot cheaper, but gives you the option to buy a blu ray player if you want and use it on the TV. It's simple consumer logic, which would you buy?

[nypifisel]

The point is not as much as can the Xbox One do 1080p as much as why can't it do this now? Even the PS4 will sacrifice things like resolution (perhaps) in the future to achieve better fidelity in other areas, what's alarming is that the Xbox One already have to do this. It speaks to great lengths of just how far behind the Xbox One is. The ESRAM is too small for 1080 it's just maths, as a frame buffer any engine using deferred rendering won't be able to put through 1080p with any sizeable pixels (i.e graphical quality)

[tagan8tr]

@Utalkin2me totally agree but you forgot to add something. The manufacture of the TV with the Blu-Ray player bought up Dream Works, 20th Century Fox and Orion Pictures. The only way to watch movies made by the aforementioned studios is to buy the low res TV with the Blu-Ray player.

[come_bom]

I agree. 1080p output should be standard for X1/PS4 games.

What's unacceptable (don't matter if you're a Microsoft or Sony fanboy) is that a less expensive console is more powerful then the more expensive console, and multiplat games look better on the cheaper console.

[Kribwalker]

The more expensive console is more expensive because of a $149 add on. It has nothing to do with the internal spes as to why it's more expensive. You guys use the same argument over and over and over again and always fail to mention that the kinect is $150 if you needed to buy a replacement.

[JeffGUNZ]

I think people forget the X1 is $100 more due to the Kinect camera being mandatory in the console. Without it, it would probably be the same or possibly even less then the PS4. You're paying more for the kinect, not specs.

I don't have standards for games like you do, my only standard is fun. Sure 1080p looks nice, no doubt, but Ryse looks beautiful and is 900p. Their is much more than resolution when it comes to graphics, we all know that.

Also, remember last gen, how poor the multiplats were on the PS3? They got better and were basically the same by the end of the generation when developers became familiar with the PS3s specs. Same is happening here, developers are not taking advantage of eSRAM, but they will over time. eSRAM is not going to make the X1 a more powerful system, PS4 will always hold that advantage, but the esram will help bring things up to where a lot of us are expecting/hoping for.

[Irishguy95]

If the PS4 had a device of the same quality as Kinect boxed in it would be the same price. It's a REALLY stupid argument.

It's like comparing 2 PC's then asking why the one that was bundled with a monitor is more expensive yet weaker. One of the low points of Sony fanboys this gen = Stupidity

Edit - "Sony were going too"...and...they didn't.

The PS eye is **** compared to kinect DK, so your argument is invalid. And even at that, Sony didn't want to take a loss.

It's no different that MS including kinect as part of the X1. MS don't want to take a loss on Kinect. So no, they aren't giving it out for free. Saying Sony 'would have' is just stupid. They didn't. They didn't because it's a stupid business decision. Why aren't you moaning about Sony not giving the camera for free?

Whats better is that you have the option whether you want the camera or not on PS4. But please don't try and say it's 400 quid versus 500 for a weaker console. The fact is you ARE paying for kinect when you buy an X1. The extra 100+ is NOT for the console itself. Again, it's the ****est argument i've heard in a while.

[DragonKnight]

"If the PS4 had a device of the same quality as Kinect boxxed in it would be the same price. It's a REALLY stupid argument."

BZZZZT Wrong.

Sony were going to release the PS4 at $400 regardless of the camera or not. The only reason they didn't release it with the camera is because they didn't want to take the bigger hit by including it.

[DoubleM70]

You do know it comes with a kinect? Of course you do.

[Prime157]

@irishguy

The fact that you as a consumer are FORCED to spend the extra $100 on the camera is a prime example of why ms is anti-consumer. "Kinect voice commands?" Let me do it through the headset... is another example.

[doolin_dalton]

@DragonKnight

"Sony were going to release the PS4 at $400 regardless of the camera or not. The only reason they didn't release it with the camera is because they didn't want to take the bigger hit by including it."

It doesn't matter what they were GOING to do. Sony didn't do it, and MS did. Doesn't change the FACT that there's more hardware included with an Xbox One than with a PS4, and that's the reason for the price difference.

[frostypants]

I'd rather have 720p with good AA than 1080p with crappy AA, if it came to that.

[HeavenlySnipes]

The people replying to you are idiots

Even if the Kinect wasn't included with the console and it was $400, the X1 would STILL be weaker than the PS4 AND its price wouldn't be justified because it costs as much as the more powerful console

Its like a 50' 3DTV costing as much as a 50' 3D SMART TV. Regardless of if the former comes with a Bluray player for an extra price, the latter is still the better TV

[Canadianfubar]

I believe "come_bom" is right. Next Gen should be about 1080p. We have 1080p games on PS3/xbox360 already. When a $200 or less console can almost do what a $500 console can't is a shame.
True next gen is 1080P, people defending all the sub games on Xbox One need to relook at the big picture.
You paid $500 for a souped up Xbox360 with better TV watching capabilities. Microsoft was banking on TV watching as the new thing because of their success with apps on Xbox 360. They totally miscalculated the response to 1080p gaming.
Now I own both consoles so I am not a fan boy. All the people that have come over to see both consoles all have said that the Xbox One does not look as good as PS4 as I also say.
Games are still fun on Xbox One, just not quite next gen looking!

[fenome]

Yes it is more expensive because of Kinect, but does that really justify it? They could've included a coffee table with the PS4 for an additional $100, but would that make it worth it? No, because I don't need or want a coffee table.

The Kinect camera is the SOLE reason that their console is more expensive and gimped on performance. I'm sorry, but it's the truth. I don't care which console or games you like better but you can't deny this.

At least they should show you real reasons in games that it's worth the sacrifice. They keep pushing night vision, asteroids, rocket science and IR burst that can sense your heartbeat, but they've yet to show anything worth $100 and weaker multiplats yet. If they're gonna sell it they need to SELL it with stuff you can do, not PR jargon.

I mean no offence to anyone who likes the X1 or Kinect, I just think they should start at least making the damn thing worth it for the people that are defending it so damn hard..

@pete007
And what percentage of that do you get? It's funny that these console wars have turned financial now too. You do realise that the money they're making is straight out of our wallets right? Not all the ways they make it are something to brag about either..

[mhunterjr]

The EsRAM isn't what keeps the xb1 from having 1080p titles. It's the bottle neck that forces 1080p titles to sacrifice on other graphical areas. Even the WiiU CAN output at 1080p, but at what cost.

[neoandrew]

But you know that any 720p movie looks better than any 1080p game?

[Kryptix]

lol I'm curious to where you really got that from? All Blu-ray movies run at 1080p/24fps to get the best of your TV's movie viewing experience.

[neoandrew]

You could see it in trailers or tv series which are 720p, just want to say that resolution does not determine the graphic quality.

So any game even at 1080p can't match the real world graphics in 720p.

SO it is possible to make a 720p game that looks better that a 1080p it all really depends on texture, light quality, model quality, effects etc. not the resolution.

But of course still ps4 is more powerful, so in any combination it could be better that xone.

[xx4xx]

I like how you the in 'depending on the genre'. Gotta keep towing the company line since'The Order' is not 60fps. Had it been, I'm sure The Order would be held up as another graphical achievement.

[Bearsfanfourlife]

Your not a true gamer your more of a techy then

[Bearsfanfourlife]

Your not a true gamer more of a techy then

[quaneylfc]

http://jolamble.com/wordpre...

That's all i'm reading at the minute.

If you want revolutionary graphics in terms of quality, consoles are not the way to go, that's fact. if you want to get the shiny shiny shiny graphics, style over substance bollocks that you all seem to care about, get a PC and automatically win your "pride" (lol) back.

I do NOT own a gaming PC, no where near actually. I own both next gen consoles and they're both graphically challenged compared to computers.

It comes down to: The xbox one being confusing for developers when using it, that's all. it could run just the same amount of 1080p 60fps games as PS4 but as the developers say: "It's a pain in the ass." IN A FEW MONTHS, IT WILL BE CRACKED AND WILL BE RUNNING AT THE SHINY SHINY SHINY LEVEL, just as the ps4 already does.

Don't argue, don't bicker its a draw!

[Chevalier]

Please don't bring PC into the comparison. It will always be unfair, we're comparing consoles only. My best analogy would be we've decided to compare say 2 $60000 sports cars on specs and you decide to come in and say well Ferrari's beat both. Yeah no kidding sherlocke, but, that is NOT what we're looking to compare.

[quaneylfc]

That's why the arguments are bollocks and pointless.

[Christopher]

Then why participate in a conversation you consider bollocks and pointless?

[ITPython]

"it could run just the same amount of 1080p 60fps games as PS4"

Sorry, but no. XB1 GPU is even a few steps below the PS4's. Not the mention DDR3 (XB1) vs GDDR5 (PS4) RAM.

The bottom line is, XB1 will never be able to perform at the same level as the PS4, EVER. Inferior hardware will always be inferior hardware, no amount of anything can change that (aside from upgrading the hardware). With two identical games running on each console pushed to the peak of each consoles ability, the PS4 will ALWAYS win. Kind of like how 1+1 will always = 2.

[Blaze929]

I love how Phil Harrisson is now all a sudden,"a liar." But when he was working at Sony? Right.

[Why o why]

eSRAM Being Too Small For 1080p Output Is "Clearly Not The Case"

Clearly???.? So what is the problem phil

And I'll ask you the same question. What is the problem then blaze?

We've all seen the forza downgrade/difference between the jimmy fallon and the retail version. What the ef happened there? Can't blame ps fanboys for the bait n switch nor should you deflect about us believing this guy is being deceptive... the irony is forza is the proof of the struggles faced....

[Christopher]

All PR people are liars in some way or form. And, most people who are in the eye of the public for a company are PR people.

It's all about not really answering the question.

The question isn't really if XBO can do 1080p. It's why it struggles to do it in comparison to its direct competitor. But, the answer is "Look at Forza and this other game" and then wiping their hands as if that solves everything.

Sony has done similar things in the past and both will continue to do them going forward. It's like trying to get a straight answer out of a politician. Not gonna happen.

[Blaze929]

@cgoodno

you like to see things that aren't there. Clearly.

The question was, "esram on xbox one too small for 1080p output any thoughts on this?"

and he answered with an appropriate answer. "No, we obviously have games out right now doing 1080p" with given examples.

If the question was, "why does Xbox One struggle to output 1080p 60fps in comparison to PS4 as far as multi platform games go?", then maybe he would've answered that too.

[Hicken]

You could at least get the name right...

[Christopher]

No, Blaze929, the question was exactly:

"@MrPhilHarrison recent interview with Rebellion Games states esram on xbox one too small for 1080p output any thoughts on this?"

Note how it's specific to Rebellion Games and what they consider it for their own games. It's not just a "general" statement. It's specific to their games which is what Rebellion Games was talking about.

If they say eSRAM is not enough for them to put their game out in 1080p, the answer isn't "Look at Forza". You can't compare two incomparable games to one another like that.

He's side stepping the real question with a fluff answer.

[Kryptix]

Well said, cgoodno... Why not compare multiplatform games? Why does it always have to be, look at Forza 5 for the resolution and Ryse for the graphics? Why can't both of those 2 things be in one game? Because the Xbox One has to sacrifice to achieve those two things more than the PS4.

Every time I see a blind person eat PR, I lose faith in humanity's ability to understand/point out simple and obvious lies and misdirection.

[Dumb_username]

Adding more Cars in Forza 5 wouldn't effect its performance, it would still be 1080p 60fps.

[Christopher]

I think he means more cars on the track at once. Meaning, more things happening at once and of which to keep track. Not more car options for you to drive.

[kakashi81]

I feel like MS messed up with making a derivative of the 7790, they should have went with 48-64MB for the ESram. Along with keeping the 14 cu's instead of 12.

[Christopher]

Having more eSRAM won't solve the issue if the bottle neck is still there. That's their problem now. Not how much eSRAM, but getting things in and out of it fast enough.

[jmac53]

regarding the CU's it's called Yield and that's why they have 12. Same as the PS4 starting with 20 and now has 18.

[RegorL]

With more ESRAM MS would have got even less CU...

The ESRAM takes lots of space on the chip, increase area and your yield will go DOWN making your price go UP. No ESRAM gives the most CUs for the same price...

Having a fast memory on chip is not a bad idea, the problem is that SONY had a better idea.

Lets guess what you got to do to fully utilize the ESRAM.
1. Render to the ESRAM (framebuffers)
2. Put models and compressed textures that is used in every frame in ESRAM (think arms and gun in a FPS, can always be rendered at best quality)
3. Retrieve textures rendered more than once on demand to the ESRAM
4. Load next such texture in background while using the first (built in "DMA" that does this).
5. Textures used only once gives less gain to preload. As you will use the data faster than it is loaded. The GPU will soon need to wait for textures.

What this boils down to is - if your game is not heavily reusing models and textures - your practical memory bandwidth approaches not the sum of your bandwidths but your minimum...

With the PS4 data can be used at full speed as soon as it has been read from disk.

I think RPGs of 2014 (DAI, Witcher 3) will be the first real test of console hardware...

[ramiuk1]

exactly 1080p should be the standard.
i think dice would of got 1080p on ps4 with BF4 if EA didnt rush them and force to release an unfinished game.

but 1080p standard and 60fps would be prefered

[ambientFLIER]

That can be said for most launch games. COD wouldn't be 720P on the X1, if the team wasn't rushed to make launch and wasn't spread too thin between 5 different versions and wasn't using incomplete xbox drivers.

[3-4-5]

Driving games CAN and always WILL be able to look better than other games.

There is less going on and they can "trick" things into looking better because of the pace or speed you are moving at.

Forza is a damn good series though, but won't ever prove a Consoles power.

I mean Forza 2 STILL looks good.

[tordavis]

No The Order for you?

[UncleGermrod]

Ps4 should see an even greater amount of games running 1080/60, and their memory set up surely allows for that. But do not be surprised when more demanding games down the line begin to run on lower resolutions, even on ps4. Battlefield already needed to run at 900.

[mochachino]

I much prefer 60fps over 1080p.

Smoother gameplay over sharper graphics anyday.

[fr0sty]

PS3 not being able to do 1080p due to RAM and GPU limitations is clearly not the case. I mean, Fl0w runs at 1080p. So does fl0wer. Pixeljunk monsters does too!

[ambientFLIER]

Those titles are native 720P. They are upscaled to 1080P on the PS3. PS4, however, runs them all natively at 1080.

[fr0sty]

No, they run native 1080p... it's just that they do not tax PS3's CPU or RAM all that much so they are able to. Wipeout HD also ran native 1080p at 60fps, though it did use a dynamic framebuffer to render frames at lower resolution when system load was too high. That was my whole point... rendering a game at 1080p is not the milestone to look for. Rendering a modern, AAA graphically impressive game at 1080p is what we're talking about. Mentioning kinect sports, Forza (which was downgraded from the first time it was shown), etc... all games that are not all that impressive from a purely technical standpoint, does not justify saying that the ESRAM has not become a bottleneck that prevents developers from displaying their games at 1080p. The same thing was true with Xbox 360's EDRAM, and is why you saw more native 1080p games on PS3.

[joeorc]

@porkChop

"So his excuse is Forza, the game that was severely downgraded, and Kinect Sports Rivals... Nevermind all the other games that struggled with performance and had to run in 720p or 900p. I don't mind some games not being 60fps, depending on the genre, but I will not accept any next gen games that aren't 1080p."

Phil is mostly i would say is talking about that through development time that you can indeed use that to through put through that esram, its pointing out even with cut down resolution, and drawbacks now that does not mean they cannot further refine that technique.

Phil is a pretty reasonable man, he has been in the biz, for quite a while long after he has shaved his head all the time..grin its kinda cool seeing him with hair so many years ago.

The point is that remember the new forza was mainly developed on older tool's and APi's they have yet to update as much as they needed too. IT SHOWS THAT WITH NEW Tool chains that now the developer's can work with!

The big thing is many look at the xboxone as weak hardware, and which is pretty ironic since the last time with the xbox360 you only had 512MB of ram to work with this time 5GB's to work with and even though its not as robust hardware as the PS4. you can bet your bottom $$$ that no matter what it will d@mn site outperform what the xbox360 could do by several fold.

At this point even though may see it one way or the other, the mere fact its such a large upgrade over the xbox360 for what and extra $100.00 at launch..remember what gamer's were paying for the xbox360 when it first launched? that's right $399.00

many see that the xboxone is over priced, but I know many think Kinect is a waste, I think even taking out Kinect out of the system, it still would be worth its cost's.

The Game's today that are being shown look fantastic no matter which platform, i think maybe because i started so long ago in computing, my first PC was an Atari 800XL that gives you an idea how old i am.lol

[JasonKCK]

Expecting 1080p and 60FPS on every game X1/PS4 is just ridiculous. If you limit yourself to that and you'll end up playing only a handful of games. If 1080p and 60fps is truly so important you would have went with PC.

LOL everything is so one sided here. Should bookmark this page next time anyone says N4G isn't biased.

[porkChop]

Point me to where I said I want every game to be 1080p/60fps. I never said that. I want every game to be 1080p because I'm sick and tired of looking at a blurry image due to not running in native res. I don't need every game to be 60fps. I absolutely prefer 60fps for certain games (sim racers, fighters, twitch shooters), but I have no problem with 30fps for other games such as open world GTA type games, RPGs, etc.

And I HAVE a gaming PC. When I want to play on my PC I will do that. But I can't play console exclusives on PC, can I? I mean seriously man, this is next gen. 720p was horrible last gen as every game, no matter how good the graphics, suffered a blurred image and horrible aliasing due to not being native res. That was last gen, and I'm done putting up with that.

[Magicite]

Hey, Microsoft, if eSRAM is not the case, then what is it? What makes your next-gen console be not capable of displaying games in Full HD, when 4k monitors/TVs are about to become affordable for an average folks?

[Gamer1982]

Its all about the amount of content in the ESRAM the developer clearly said they cant get enough through it for an FPS in 1080p. A driving game is totally different. Even the PS3 could do 1080p driving games (Gran Turismo).. FPS needs a lot more and faster RAM thanks to a lot more fast moving textures. As when your playing a driving game the car is static so although it looks gorgeous its loaded into local memory and doesn't need to be constantly cycled in and out of RAM. Not like switching weapons etc.. I hope that makes sense I tried to dumb it down a bit lol.

[cyber_daemonx]

@georegeenoob. Yeah Ryse lol. A qte riddled cut scene pretty much, with about as much depth as pong. And Forza with its baked lighting and cardboard backgrounds. Anything more demanding though and bang goes the resolution.

[GamingNerd013]

While I agree most of ur words I personally don't have problem with 720P as long it's 60FPS. And I agree I can't stop laughing how MS is always bring up forza 5 as clearly everybody knows y it's 1080p at 60. Let's c first it was downgraded to the e3 version in Oder 4 it to run on x1 then so much content was cut or didn't have in Oder 4 it 2 be 1080P at 60 like less cars no weathers less tracks no day and night and many more missing from forza 4 and horizon. And as 4 ryse the only thing it looks good with is the faces of the chars. And body as everything else looks crap and yes KZSF easly kills it in every way color environment and much more. Plus this is a fact if ryse was on ps4 I bet it could easly run at 1080P at 30fps locket or hell maybe even more FPS then 30. Xbox fanboys just accept ps4 is way better in every way games online graphics services and as a gaming console. I mean really the kenect is crap I have netflix HBO and some others tv serves I can watch on my TV PC and tablet that do it much better then X1 and games looking much better on ps4 and last sony exclusives r wayyyyyyyyyy better then xbox.

[Gamer666]

That's funny!

Forza did not have a frame rate or resolution downgrade. It has been 1080p resolution and 60 fps since day one.

There is a difference between the detail rendered in the E3 demo and the final game. But, I doubt anyone who has played the game with an open mind would say that is "severely downgraded" or that it took away from the game experience.

I like how all of a sudden 30 fps is acceptable because infamous Second Son and The Order have both confirmed they will be 30 fps now. A month ago people weren't going to play any game below 60 fps. Now all of a sudden 30 fps is the mark because the Sony exclusives are dropping down there. Fact, is (and I have been consistent with this all along) that 720p and 30 fps can still be a great game. Last of Us is a perfect example of that (I know it is not next gen, but if it had released on PS4 as a launch game rather than on the PS3 last spring I doubt anyone would've complained if it shipped at 720p and 60 fps).

I have played Forza since launch. I am disappointed in the lack of some of the game features from previous versions, but graphically when you are driving a track at 150-200+ mph you don't notice a single ounce of the rendered detail difference between E3 and the final game. You are just trying to keep your crazy ass car on the track and win the race! Sure if the people in the stands were blocks like Minecraft you could notice the difference. But at that speed, the detail rendering between the E3 demo and final build is completely lost to the human eye and it is more about "car feel", sound, controls, and physics then it is about graphics.

And on car feel, Forza is bang on because I have driven some of the cars and they feel the same, sound completely rocks as the way it echos in the tunnels of prague and the grand stands at the other big tracks is comparable to races I have watched live in person, and the physics are spot on to what I experienced in the cars I have driven.

You may want to know what makes a good driving game before you slag Forza or GT for that matter. These two sims are amazing! Anyone that knows anything about real race driving and driving sims will tell you that.

[Blues Cowboy]

Personally I'd prioritise frame rate over resolution 100% of the time. Different people want different things, but the 30 vs 60FPS is *much* more noticeable than 900 vs 1080p.

Which is why I do most of my gaming on PC, where even F2P games like Loadout run at 115 FPS blah blah blah blah blee bloo [insert snide comment here, I can't be bothered]

[deSSy2724]

1080p doesnt means next gen graphics. 1080p and very high graphics settings is always better than 1080p and very low graphics settings. In 2016-18 all PS4/X1 games will be basically in very low graphics settings. PC is always the KING when we talk about resolution and graphics settings.

[AndrewLB]

I agree completely. Even right now Sony and M$ are cutting corners on things like Ambient occlusion, shadow map filtering, and LOD in order to "claim" their consoles were not built way slower than they should have been. these "next-gen" systems should be able to play every single game at 1080p/60, with the possibility of hitting 4k on movies and games that are dumbed down or upscaled. If the product cycle of the ps4 and xbone is 8 years, the difference in graphics between them and PC at the end of that cycle will be like comparing PS3 to SNES.

[Elronza]

You're 100% correct! Worse still for Sony and Microsoft is most tablets and cellphones are already featuring 720p.-1080p.resolution and they update every year. That is why I chose to go with the Nvidia Shield this generation.

[AndrewLB]

So can you please explain how PC's had no problem running an Radeon HD 7790 @ 1080p? Here is the HD7790 running FarCry 3 @ Ultra settings and 1080p. http://images.anandtech.com...

Or if you drop the graphic detail down to med-high, a level closer to what you'd see on these consoles, it averages in the 50's. http://images.anandtech.com...

And if you factor in the lower driver/operating system overhead found in consoles, Xbone should easily be able to run these games at 1080p.

My guess as to why they aren't running that resolution is because of deadlines. those launch titles were rushed in order to be for sale on day one, which didn't allow the devs to optimize the code enough for it to run smoothly on 1080p.

[Guwapo77]

Microsoft is 100% correct. 1080p has nothing at all to do with eSRAM. It has EVERYTHING to do with the video card they selected for the Xbox1.

[brich233]

I been 1080p gaming on PC for like 5 years now. Just because a game is a at 1080p, it doesnt make it a better game than a game at 720p. The whole experience matters.

[ObiWanaTokie]

"Xbox one, cant handle 1080p, Clearly the case"

I fixed the title guys. it reads better now

[iiorestesii]

@minimur I almost wrote the same thing right beneath yours haha tou che

[chuckyj1]

Only an idiot would refuse to play a game, b/c it's not native 1080p...

If the games fun I could care less if it is 720p or 1080p... Graphics have been great this gen regardless of the Native resolution of the games...

[Jury]

Clearly is the case

[jessupj]

Why should we believe anything MS says? I've honestly lost count of how many times MS has out right lied in their PR statements.

You don't need a computer science degree to know that esram is clearly a bottleneck for the xbone.

MS trying to feed us more BS. Surprise surprise. You'd think they'd learn by now most of us can immediately see right through their BS.

[WeAreLegion]

Give em a break. They just installed ten new switches this week. I'm sure they'll flip them soon.

[Psygnosis333]

think positive ;)
http://i.imgur.com/zNkOp4e....

[Back-to-Back]

Awesome gif

[XiSasukeUchiha]

ESram is too small just deal with it and besides cloud assist on forza 5 everybody!

[Charybdis]

Don't focus too much on the esram, its there for the xb1 but the main differentiator between ps4 and xb1 isn't the difference in ram.

Would a pc without esram but with only ddr3 ram be able to run a 1080p game. It also depend on other important factors. Microsoft is just trying to focus the conversation on ram.

[DJustinUNCHAIND]

You know what's funny?

The only retail exclusive on both consoles that is running 1080p/60fps is Forza 5.

[GryestOfBluSkies]

killzone says hi.

besides, exclusives aren't the problem. the problem is that multiplats run better on the cheaper console.

[palaeomerus]

KZSF is 30 FPS.

[JeffGUNZ]

@GryestofBLuSkies

Wait. So last Generation we blamed developers for not utilizing the PS3 when the multiplats were better on the 360, but now it's MS fault? Which one is it?

Both consoles are capable of running 1080p, it's not going to happen constantly on all games 3 months after release.

[GryestOfBluSkies]

single player 30fps
multi player 60fps

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

wasnt this known for a long time?

@jeff

im not blaming anyone for anything. just stating that multi plats run better on ps4, which so far has been true

[DragonKnight]

JeffGUNZ: Last gen it was appropriate to say that devs weren't using the PS3 to its potential when you saw that games like Uncharted (any one of them) or The Last of Us absolutely smoked any multiplatform title because Sony were using the full potential of the PS3.

Xbox 360 was using x86 architecture and was easier to develop for, and we all know devs always take the easiest route first despite knowing that developing for the PS3 first then porting from there would have made games equal.

This gen both consoles are very similar to each other, but MS opted for specs that cause issues for developers to work with.

[insomnium2]

Ssssh DG. You are ruining JeffGUNZ's mojo. He just got excited for his new "PS fans are hypocrites"-comment and then you just had to say something truthfull and take away all his steam. Think of the children man!

[Unspoken]

Wait a second...let me get this straight...

Sony, the manufacturer, chooses Cell architecture, but we instead blame the developers for not programing on the more difficult platform first and then porting over to the 360 which would allow us to convince ourselves all games would look equal...

Then we have Microsoft, who chooses eSRAM, but now we blame the manufacture, not the developers because this time they started on the easier platform, the PS4, then helped port over to XB1.

Sometimes when I read comments on this site I swear I am watching a DirectTV commercial.

[DragonKnight]

@unspoken: "Sony, the manufacturer, chooses Cell architecture, but we instead blame the developers for not programing on the more difficult platform first and then porting over to the 360 which would allow us to convince ourselves all games would look equal..."

No, no one was blaming developers for not programming on the PS3 first. What I said was that if they had programmed on the PS3 first, then they would have had better parity. That was proven years ago. Sony first party games proved that 3rd party developers were being lazy, favouring the familiar architecture of the 360 and then porting to other platforms which made every other platform take a hit in quality. A problem that wouldn't have happened if they'd have programmed on the PS3 first.

This gen, Microsoft opted to make Kinect and non-gaming features more important and designed what many are insisting is a bottleneck into the console. The result is that both consoles are very close in specs with each other, but Microsoft's choices are preventing that parity. Last gen, the differences between the PS3 and the 350 were minimal even with the alleged difficulty of Cell programming.

At the start of this gen, the difference is much bigger. To be fair to Microsoft though, devs aren't off the hook. With a similar architecture they shouldn't be having these kinds of problems.

[maniacmayhem]

@Dragon

I disagree Dragon, the reason devs didn't program on the PS3 first was because of the difficult architecture of the cell. It would have taken them much more time, resources and money to get the game working correctly for the PS3 and then extra time to port to the 360.

So yes, devs did take the easier route which is 100% what they or anyone should do.

1st party studios do not have to worry about porting the game over to any other console so they can exclusively work on and concentrate solely on the console they are working on.

It has nothing to do with "devs being lazy" which was just another excuse fanboys when the game didn't turn out the way they hoped for and especially when comparing games to 1st party titles.

MS should have made it just as easy to develop for their X1 as Sony did for the PS4. Especially after the ease of use for the 360, it makes no sense why they would choose to put any kind of hindrances or bottle necks for their system

[cyber_daemonx]

KZ multiplayer is 1080/60. To get the xbone to run games at 1080/60, compromises have to be made elsewhere.

[BOLO]

Did you miss the Wii-U 1080p/60fps games or...

[gameseveryday]

Title is extremely misleading. Phil is talking in a general sense and is not considering the eSRAM issues that developers are facing.

[Christopher]

I agree. He is sidestepping the actual issue :P

[MasterCornholio]

The Xbox One can handle 1080P games but it can't handle those games as well as the PS4 due to its weaker hardware and more complex system architecture.

[pyramidshead]

1080p is doable but at a price it seems. I mean check F5 E3 reveal to how the game actually turned out, not pretty.

[MasterCornholio]

Reminds me of what Gearbox did with Colonial Marines.

[insomnium2]

@corn

OUCH!

[Christopher]

@MasterCornholio: And what Sony did with KZ2. Sadly, something everyone ends up doing if they're in the game long enough.

[grassyknoll]

32mb of ESRAM is too small. You can't have a 1080p frame buffer that uses deferred rendering fit in that space. Crysis 3 & Killzone SF would not be possible without compromises on Xbox One with that RAM configuration alone (never mind everything else).

[DoesUs]

LOL, Misterx (imad on N4G) poking his face into the convo.

misterxmedia ‏@misterxmedia 2m

@MrPhilHarrison @shao1in there is more than 100MB of ESRAM inside Xbox One. More details to follow on http://misterxmedia.livejou...

100MB of ESRAM! i'm howling at this. Clearly that imaginary 2nd layer has a multitude of goodies....

[pyramidshead]

He's a loon. I bet you right here right now his fake insider is still going to be talking about 'hidden' power or engines not built for Xbox One properly or any sort of BS like that this time next year. Guaranteed.

If his insider isn't him then my hats off to the troll who keeps contacting him and keeping his blog going.

[MasterCornholio]

Wow i cant believe Xbox One owners follow this guy.

[mmj]

He's right, this is probably one of the few times a Microsoft representative has told the truth... the bottleneck (compared to PS4) is actually the fact that they went with DDR3 in the first place, that the ESRAM exists at all and that they had to skimp on the GPU as an outcome of that.

This is a comparison of the GPU's in both consoles, bearing in mind that both consoles have two compute units disabled and Xbone lacks high bandwidth GDDR5 to store 99.9% of game data:
http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Rad...

If Microsoft had chance to redesign Xbone they would do what Sony did, 8GB GDDR5, scrap the ESRAM and fit a much better GPU using the cost/space saving.

Xbone is not necessary a bad design (it worked fine last gen with Xbox 360), it's just that Sony have absolutely nailed it.

[DoesUs]

XB1 is more akin 7770, but both have modifications so you can't really compare like this.

[mmj]

7770 has only 10 compute units, it's known that the Xbox One GPU has 14 units and 2 are disabled which would make it a gimped 7790.

Likewise, PS4 is known to have 20 compute units with 2 disabled, which would make it a gimped 7870.

It's a fair comparison because both PC GPU's above have the same two extra compute units compared to the console equivalents.

[KingDadXVI]

The biggest issue here is the multiplatform games. As in the last generation the easier to code for platform comes out of the gate looking the best for multiplatform games. Once the developers have more time to optimize and MS improves their SDK to make that optimization easier you will see more parity in the platforms.

Here is the developer in questions response to 1080p on Xbox One:

"Will the process become easier over time as understanding of the hardware improves? “Definitely, yeah. They are releasing a new SDK that’s much faster and we will be comfortably running at 1080p on Xbox One. We were worried six months ago and we are not anymore, it’s got better and they are quite comparable machines"

It is not a question of whether the Xbox Once can do 1080p it is whether MS can make it easy enough for the multiplatform developers to code for 1080p.

As the experience and SDKs improve this will become a nonissue. We are already seeing that happen and it is only 3 months into launch. That is actually really great news.

[mmj]

ESRAM usage will improve but there will always be a large performance gap between the two consoles, that's just down to the nature of the hardware choices.

Expecting Xbox One to reach performance parity with PS4 is like expecting an obese person to match the speed of Usain Bolt after some time spent training. They can delude themselves all they want but it's physically impossible.

[KingDadXVI]

@mmj

"Expecting Xbox One to reach performance parity with PS4 is like expecting an obese person to match the speed of Usain Bolt after some time spent training. They can delude themselves all they want but it's physically impossible."

Don't delude yourself. The disparity will be much smaller than you think. Many people simply compare the GPU or ram and think that is all there is in rendering games. They are quite incorrect and here is why:

1. The Xbox One GPU and CPU and buses are running at higher clock speeds (CPU 7.5% faster and GPU 6.6% faster).

2. The Xbox One has far more discreet graphics and audio processors offloading work from the GPU leaving more free GPU cycles for core graphics.

3. The memory architecture of the Xbox One while different will be able to keep very close to the performance of the PS4 memory with improvements to the SDKs and more experience from developers in coding for it. This is already being confirmed by developers.

4. The PS4 will have to use more of its GPU for GPGPU (General Purpose Compute). Physics, AI, some of the audio, etc. will all be handled by the PS4 GPU. In fact Mark Cerny confirmed that Sony has recommended to developers that 4 of the 18 CUs be reserved for general compute calculations. They can dip into that reserve but at the cost of other elements in the game thus affecting gameplay. So which does a developer go for? Gorgeous graphics with shitty physics, audio, and AI? Or do you use those CUs to ensure that the game plays great and loses a little in the graphics department? Developers will chose to have a balanced game not a game that is visually stunning but shitty to play.

5. The Xbox One is allowing more of the GPU to be used by developers. Initially they were holding back 10% but as they said back in October once they had a chance to optimize they would reduce this reserve. Now only 2% will be held back.

6. With the consoles pushing out 1080p and 30 to 60fps consistently, which will happen very soon there is now where to go from there. The PS4 may be able to render at a slightly higher than 1080p resolution but that would be moot as no one will own a TV that can display it. If you think 4K is the answer you are dead wrong. Neither console has anywhere near the grunt to push out 4K.

Now I know that many will come back and say but the PS4 will improve too. I agree it will but not as much and the limits will be reached sooner. This brings me to my last point.

7. The PS4's strongest point, that is far more straight forward to develop for also means that the developers will find it easier to reach the limits of the hardware. This means that they will reach those limits sooner. It won't be like the last gen where it takes 4 years to unlock the consoles power.

In the end the PS4 will have a power advantage but it will be far smaller than most of the armchair computer engineers believe. Both will render excellent games. What it will ultimately come down to is not the graphics which will be close to identical but the exclusives and their gameplay.

I really don't care whether the fan boys like or agree as these are facts. I could tell them that the sky was blue and they would tell me it was neon green just to be ignorant or spiteful. In the end what really matters is that the games on both consoles will look great and any difference between them will only be noticeable if you happen to game 2 feet from your HDTV.

[mmj]

@KingDadXVI

You are the one deluded mate.

"1. ...(CPU 7.5% faster and GPU 6.6% faster)."

Yet benchmarks have shown PS4 CPU performance is faster, probably due to all of that extra MEMORY BANDWIDTH it has:
http://www.cinemablend.com/...

Besides, even if the Xbone CPU was faster it's far less relevant compared to GPU/memory bandwidth when it comes to high resolution graphics.

...and as for GPU clockspeed it doesn't matter that its clocked ever so slightly faster because it's significantly inferior.

Pixel fill rate:
PS4: 32 ROPS @ 800mhz = 25.6 Gpixels/sec
XBO: 16 ROPS @ 850mhz = 13.6 Gpixels/sec

Pixel shader throughput:
PS4: 1152 @ 800mhz x 2(ops) = 1.84TFlops
XBO: 768 @ 850mhz x 2(ops) = 1.3TFlops

"2. The Xbox One has far more discreet graphics and audio processors offloading work from the GPU leaving more free GPU cycles for core graphics."

No it doesn't, deluded.

"3. The memory architecture of the Xbox One while different will be able to keep very close to the performance of the PS4 memory with improvements to the SDKs and more experience from developers in coding for it. This is already being confirmed by developers."

No it won't, deluded. The majority of data will still be stored in 60GB/s DDR3, at best better ESRAM usage will see a minor performance improvement, it still won't make up for the PS4 having 8 GIGABYTES of 176GB/s GDDR5 and Xbone having a much inferior GPU. Whilst PEAK memory bandwidth may be similar PS4 will always have a much higher SUSTAINED memory bandwidth.

"4. The PS4 will have to use more of its GPU for GPGPU..."

It's the pixel fill rate and memory bandwidth that matters mostly for higher resolutions, a few less pixer shader effects will be more than made up for by the physics etc that is done using the GPGPU. BTW what happens to Xbox games when they start dedicating 4 units to physics??

"5. The Xbox One is allowing more of the GPU to be used by developers..."

8% more performance is nothing when you look at the performance deficit Xbone has.

"6. With the consoles pushing out 1080p and 30 to 60fps consistently..."

Xbone hasn't been pushing 1080P 'consistently' though has it? only one or two games reached it and they have had to make a lot of sacrifices to get there.

"7. The PS4's strongest point, that is far more straight forward to develop for..."

PS4's strongest point is that Sony fitted much better hardware to begin with, the fact that it's easier to develop for is just a bonus.

"In the end the PS4 will have a power advantage but it will be far smaller than most of the armchair computer engineers believe."

Like I said, you're deluded.

[ThePope]

You're a smart guy. Thanks for fighting the good fight. Sorry the Ponies hurt your bubble count I'd like to hear more of what you have to say.

[pupa]

@KingDad

Just explain in simple words why Sony currently with the PS4 performs better on practically any multiplatform game and are able to produce higher resolution together with higher FPS more consistently up to now.

Then explain in simple terms why the mighty M$ corporate giant with all their money, knowledge and engineering might as well as software skills base could so far in all this time not resolve the "simple" issue with firmware or their Dev kits? Surely they know where the real problems are and it seems that they have NO clue on how to effectively resolve the issue with tricks and optimizations as the limit is in the hardware spec and not in the structure. With the PS3 it was a complete new cell structure, with the Xbone it is the same similar structures that was used before.

Then explain HOW the problem are going to be overcome as seemingly you are an technical expert wizard that knows what needs to be done, maybe offer your assistance to Microsoft!

IMHO until further notice THEY CANT solve an inherent hardware deficiency. Thus IMHO they will never reach the same quality levels as we will see in the PS4 and thus the only way they can counter this is by producing good AAA exclusives with a good story and gameplay.

Prove of my comment lies in the sales numbers and multiplat games already released.

[WeAreLegion]

Who would disagree with this? He's right on and not being a fanboy about it. Just stating facts.

[The_devils_chum]

To his defense it runs Forza and the UI at 1080p. LOL im so tired of hearing about forza, its got no weather, no cars, no tracks. Look at the numbers, they dont lie only scumbag corporate droids do, to date theres only 3 or 4 xb1 titles running 1080p and lets not even touch frame rates. What a sad specimen.

[SonyROXitoohya]

Lol such a defensive fanboy you are. A little mad xbox is closing in on the ps4 eh? Haha. Once exclusives roll out for it, sony fanboys will cry more. Let's play infamous and the order, oh wait single player only..well at least it's 60fps! Oh wait it's 30fps.. Bbb bu bu but it's so powerful!! Sure..in a vacuum and on paper, too bad it's been disappointing left and right with all it's errors and problems. It's disappointing so much that ps4 fanboys have to brag about crappy launch games running 1080 lol, and instead of talking good about our ps4s, we get so defensive that we can't so we attack the xbox one lol which just shows how worried we really are of the xbox one.

Every single raging fanboy knocking on the xbox one just proves how worried they are about how well it's doing and how good their exclusives look. Let them rage lol, their jealous is so obvious it's sad. But hey, be moved. Hah.

[WeAreLegion]

Here, man. Eat a Snickers. You're not yourself when you're hungry.

[insomnium2]

Xbox is closing in on the ps4 where now? You call selling more due to being the only console not sold out ww closing in.....? O_O really?
That's......good for you I guess.

Might want to turn off my internet right about now if I were you though. That way in your imagination XBone can keep gaining on PS4 and win an almost flawless victory. PS4 4.2 million vs XBone 250 million and counting. FATALITY! Right?

In THAT world Sony won't launch PS4 in Japan and in a year or so get rid of their supply/demand problems (if you can call it that). In that world Sony won't sell another console and will go bankrupt and you will be happy.

OK now I read through the rest of your comment and I feel bad for wasting my time with this comment. Might as well put it out here so you can feel a little bit better about yourself. Me being insecure about my PS4 purcha....oh wait I didn't even buy it yet. PS3+Vita is all I need for now but hey whatever right?

[BattleTorn]

Dude, WTF are you talking about?!

We're not 'raging with jealousy' over the Xbox One!

I have both, and I can say that 3rd party games look drastically better on PS4. (I have two copies of CODG, BF4, and ACIV)

The PS4 isn't more powerful "in a vacuum, on paper" it is current running every game better than X1!

Youre seriously deluding yourself if you think this is all evidence of how well the Xbox One is doing!

[The_devils_chum]

Worried is right worried about ps4 and sony failing. What would happen is that dastardly company microsoft would start DRM and no used games the very next day. Then 720p 30 fps would be the standard for next gen consoles, thats why microsoft must fail and they will because they mess everything up like windows 8. There a complete train wreck especially the gaming sector, sorry but its true.

[GamingNerd013]

Thx 4 the laughs yo I enjoy reading stupid comments once in a while u know:) keep it up so I can laugh more:) also u might want to have a doctor fix ur brain it really needs it and will be really good u:xD

[TruthInsider]

MS & MisterXMedia: For all your PR needs.

We can lie and spin better than any politician!

[monkeyDzoro]

Ryse : Son of Facial Animations. People keep bringing it and say : "Best looking game", plz add ON XBOX. Killzone trumps it everywhere else.
Anyway, this resolution war was funny at the beginning. Reading comments, watching damage controls... now it's TIRING... just TIRING...

[deadleaf98]

Then why don't your games run in 1080p 60fps?

[CrossingEden]

Ryse, Forza 5, MGSV, NBA2k14, Madden, AC4, Kinect Sports Rivals, Tomb Raider Definitive edition, Halo Spartan Assault, Need for Speed Rivals, Skylanders Swap Force, all have a higher resolution than 720p
Ryse, AC4=900p
The rest are all NATIVE 1080p, making your comment invalid
Plus it's not like all ps4 games are running in 1080p/60fps anyway.

[SonyROXitoohya]

Of course it's not, it's the beginning of the life cycle of xbox one, only defensive sony fanboys rage otherwise. Don't worry our PS4 has a ton of games 30fps and our exclusives are...yup 30fps lol. Xbox one is doing great and that worries sony fanboys as witnessed by their raging defensive comments haha, too funny. I'm happy with my ps4, I pressed...? No especially not with our exclusives namely The Order and Infamous. Both of which are very dissapointing at 30fps, no multiplayer and in the order, a ridiculous aspect ratio plaguing our screen with black bars. Blah, it's no wonder xbox one is selling so well and only will get better with titanfall and their other exclusives, which is why you see sony fanboys getting so mad and more defensive lately. I can care less as I'll be buying a xbox one any day now, I may or may not sell my ps4, dunno yet.

Before the fanboys rage I don't have a ps4 go look at my twitch streams in which I stream games on ps4, with a camera, I even hold up my name to prove it to fanboys that it's me. So eat it. Lol.

[CernaML]

Go look at your twitch streams? We would if they existed.

It would be a little smarter for you to let us know what your PSN ID is because after all that nonsensical blabber of yours, I still see you as a complete liar.

[imt558]

Dude, buy a TV in 21:9 ratio and you will have no black bars in Order. Same shit when you watching 4:3 movie on 16:9 TV.

And of course, you don't have PS4.

[Agent_hitman]

Angry birds and tetris runs @1080p on every xbone or 360.. sarcasm

[a08andan]

The thing is with 16 ROPs its gonna be a hard fight everytime they want to push to 1080p. The PS4 has 32 ROPs which is considered the golden standard for 1080p output!

[Angainor7]

So what is the case?

[mogwaii]

I am very much against microsoft and the xbone but i do think ryse looks pretty awesome, infamous second son will trump it though.

[djplonker]

The difference is infamous will have awesome gameplay and the single player will last longer than 4 hours XD

[insomnium2]

Judging by the disagrees you got you are wrong. Infamous SS will not be over 4hours long and it's gameplay will absolutely suck donkey balls.

[CrowbaitBob]

@insomnium2

I fully believe that inFamous will have amazing gameplay and will last longer than 4 hours.

What I disagreed with was how that information relates in any way to Ryse. I personally really enjoy Ryse's gameplay and my experience with the campaign was around 8 hours the first time through.

[CrowbaitBob]

"I am very much against microsoft and the xbone"

And what exactly does that achieve? Good grief, it's a gaming console, not the holocaust.

[mogwaii]

I as a consumer have the choice to vote with my wallet and i am also a person with eyes and ears and its blatantly obvious that microsoft dont give a toss about customers nor what they want, so that good sir will achieve those pricks at microsoftcock to realise People dont like being shat on.

[djplonker]

Hmm who should I believe industry insiders and tech experts or the people trying to sell me said thing for £500...

[ape007]

let's hope that's the case

[Psygnosis333]

Reason for the eSRAM was purely cost... it's a bandaid on the fact that it has no dedicated VRAM, just shared DDR3 which is terrible for graphics. What they should have done was make it more like a PC, gotten rid of eSRAM and upped the GPU cores by 50% to equal the PS4 and included some dedicated VRAM like 2GB, plus 6GB system mem... but GDDR5 is expensive, they wanted to make a profit at the expense of us gamers.

Also considering how HUGE the Xbox One is, and that it's power supply (power brick) is external and not internal, they have PLENTY of thermal/heat headroom to have included more powerful stuff... microsoft just fucked up this generation. I kind of wish the Xbox One would be a failure so they'd go back to the drawing board and fix the design, but I know that's not gonna happen. So, we'll be stuck for another 5-10 years with a bad console dragging behind and limiting our games on all platforms.

[Tzuno]

Ms should ditch that stupid anti-aliasing that blurs everything in the favor of a clean 1080p.

[cruzngta]

The new sdk's are the real key for developers and that is the main reason. The XB1 is a powerful console and 1080p is not a problem - its the coding with poor software such as the original sdk's which were rushed and severly lacking. In time the developers will learn the ins and outs of the box and using tiled resources properly with the fast esram will help move data quickly for coding. Its just a more complicated process than the easier to use and slightly more powerful PS4. I have both machines and they are both great - it is not a night and day dirrerence like so many people think with the graphics. XB1 more than competes with PS4 - I have ALL of their games and have compared them days on end and each have advantages over each other.

[quenomamen]

SDKs cant fix bottlenecks in hardware like ESRAM.
Its physicsl hardware based not software.

[Mkai28]

Interesting enough, that rebellion developer seemed confident that they would have it running at 1080p. That newer SDK has to be more then just that, I'm convinced that the long awaited Direct X 11.2 will be with this SDK..
@quenomamen: Yet APIs like DX 11 can give more detail at lower performance. Have you all forgotten, Direct X 11.2 is able to compress 3GBs textures into 16MBs, 6 GBs of textures into 32Mbs?

http://www.ign.com/boards/t...

[jacksjus]

The developer never said it was impossible, he said that it will just take some time for other developers to master the tricks to get 1080p. I don't recall him saying that it's not possible.

[jhoward585]

eSRAM

translation below.

"EVERYONE SHOULD RAMBLE ABOUT MICROSOFT"

[lonewolfjedi]

Lol can't believe he used kinect sports rivals as a reference for 1080p games LOL. Shouldn't have went so cheap with the hardware specs and underestimate the competitor. Guess Microsoft thought sony was going with 4gb gddr5 and lower CPU and gpu boy was Microsoft surprised and dumbfounded.

[Dehnus]

How do you even know this? Did you spy on them? If not than it is just an assumption.

[jmac53]

He knows this because that's how it turned out.

[SynestheticRoar]

Phily Harrison LOL that was wonderful I can't stop laughing. BRAVO.

[StifflerK]

Do you remember when people used to play video games for fun......?

[MachineGunnTalk]

yes now its all about people proving that their system is more superior, and i thought 4chan was filled with trolls

[Qwagy UK]

It clearly is the case!

[linkenski]

Strayman BS.

[chuckyj1]

Forza 5 is a good example as it does run 1080p/60fps... But, Kinect sports may not be as good of an example as it has been reported to run at 1080p/30fps...

The fact is those two games came from 1st party developers that get the best toolsets and support possible. 3rd party developers don't usually get as good resources and tools to create their games...

It's not that Xbox One can't do it, but more so it takes more development time and better toolsets and support to get it done than the PS4.

[hankmoody]

This is the first time I've ever not wanted to get a console because of its fanbase (i.e. the PS4 diehards). The hell is wrong with you people?

[RoboticusRex]

My guess is they took crap from rabid MS fan boys for a long time and now the roles have reversed. Are you honestly saying MS fan boys would not be doing the same if the xboxone was the superior console?

[hankmoody]

If articles are being written about how die hard Sony fanboys are the worst (i.e. Jim Sterling's piece), then you know something's up. That's not to say every Sony supporter is a jerk but it's just annoying to come on here and see people jump on every single XB1 article to spew venom. I pay close attention to the behavior on both sides and while the MS supporters definitely have their share of idiots, you get way more crap coming from the PS side.

[jmac53]

It's pretty sad that you would choose to not get a console purely based on the fan base rather than the games. With that mindset why don't you get a WiiU, those fans are the underdogs right now.

[hankmoody]

Eventually I'll get the PS4 just to have my bases covered. I wouldn't let a fanbase completely deter me from buying anything or supporting anything. I look at it the same way as with a sports team that has fans that don't know how to act when their team of choice does well. It looks bad on the team itself.

[THEHardcoreGamer]

All the fanboys are as bad. Stop pretending it's sony fans only that are horrible.

[hankmoody]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. But again, if you look at the interactions here specifically on N4G, you can't honestly look at both sides and not admit that the more trollish fanboys on the PS side have been on the offensive for a while now. I can only speak for myself when I say that even though I lean more towards the XB1, I don't feel the need to trash the PS4 or the people who support it. There's a civil way to discuss all this stuff without being jerks about it but it is what it is.

[THEHardcoreGamer]

"I agree with you wholeheartedly. But again, if you look at the interactions here specifically on N4G, you can't honestly look at both sides and not admit that the more trollish fanboys on the PS side have been on the offensive for a while now. I can only speak for myself when I say that even though I lean more towards the XB1, I don't feel the need to trash the PS4 or the people who support it. There's a civil way to discuss all this stuff without being jerks about it but it is what it is."

Well you are right. The PS4 fanboys have been pretty bad. BUT! That's because their console is winning. If you were as interested in gaming industry back when PS3 launched (well, months after that) you'd know that the 360 fans were unbearable. All this fanboy crap is stupid as it not only makes them look stupid but the whole gaming community.

[Dehnus]

Aaand here we go again, the PS 4 fanboys go in the full assault, having little games to play... the Xbox fanboys go into super defense mode, having a serious boredom issues as well...

And all of us are just caught in between the idiots, sigh... Look Xbox Fanboys, just always agree to what the PS4 fanboys say. They'll get tired of it and get very angry. It's not rocket science, just think about how you most can annoy a bully.

Same goes for PS4 fanboys when Xbox fanboys are jerks.

Than we can all finally sleep easy.

[MCTJim]

Misleading question inside the article. I really don't think the dude asking the question bothered to read the whole article about the developer. Also, when they finally get the updated SDK's out to utilize why they used ESRAM aka tiled resources, Developers will then get what they want easier than just brute force...then it wont even be an issue anymore. The ESRAM is more than enough when they use the tiled resources.

[RoboticusRex]

Its possible. Just severely downgrade graphics and poof=1080.

[NeloAnjelo]

Forza... Yeah if that's the pinnacle of a 1080p on the XBONE... Downgraded with 2D crowds, lighting, night and day cycle etc... then sorry MS. Stop focusing in Kinect and TV and give usa gaming machine first

[cbuc1125]

I didnt hear him say what IS the case then. Come on Microsoft...tell us why so many Xbox one games dont run in 1080p if it isnt the esram. Wait...clearly it isnt the inferior ram type, clearly it isnt the inferior graphics card, clearly it isnt the Kinect taking up too many resources..so CLEARLY what is it???!

[AnthonyJrWTF]

The original article mentions that after the new SDK, 1080p will be a comfortable fit for Sniper...

Did anyone read the original article? Why are we linking a Twitter post? Is this news for the sake of hate generation?

[S2Killinit]

Now im almost certain it is deficient for 1080p.

[dcbronco]

Is this based on the interview where the guy says that basically haven't figured out how to do it yet but they will. Funny how people take now and apply it to forever. When it fits their purposes. It's like Pachter's always wrong unless he says what I want to hear.

[windblowsagain]

You would never be able to match PS4 graphics on xboxone with same rez,textures,aa.

Impossible. It does not matter what they use the ram for.

The GPU is 50% weaker on xboxone.

But that is not to say the xboxone cannot have great looking games.

[OldDude]

I would rather have 900p/60fps than 1080p/30 (which is what I think MS should shoot for as their standard). I have both consoles and both are great. However if I want graphics I turn to my PC with a GTX780. A console simply cannot compare, especially when hooked up to my 60"-3d TV.

[elm]

Love how a weak ass GFX card can suddenly become great and output 1080p as the norm because of secret sauce development tools. LOL. MS has more spin than a spiders web.

There WILL be more games that don't run at 1080p than do this coming generation on the bone. 2014 and 1080p has been the norm on TV's for well over 7 years and people still put up playing content at lower resolutions. Just think in 2020 Xboners will still be playing games at 720p OH my!

[THEHardcoreGamer]

Hah, consoles. Not long until 4k comes and both "next gen" consoles will be outdated. I just don't see why people play on consoles. Sure the games look great at launch but after a year?

[elm]

Agree I want to be playing 4k games as the norm within 3 years. The PS4 will be passable by then but 720p? hell no.

[Kennytaur]

Except it clearly isn't enough. Not for a full HD framebuffer with all the next gen bells and whistles.

It's the same amount as the EDRAM in the Wii U.

[Ps4marksthespotnotX]

The real test to see who has better graphics will be infamous vs ryse as infamous was supposed to be a launch game and it's third person just like ryse. I think infamous is gonna kick ryse behind on graphics and game play.

[sashimi]

So you waiting for the day an open world game looks and preforms better than a linear game. If this was last gen i would've been dying of laughter at that thought but...this gen, Its scary i can actually see it happening.

[arugula]

Again with this? First off, let me say this. Rebellion games fail to move even close to a million copies on any game in any region. Sniper elite series as a whole has barely managed over a million sales. Maybe make a good game and then come talk.

Rebellion games? Come on. Give me a known quality studio that has come out and said Xbox One cant do 1080p. Only time you hear of this is from some no named developer not knowing what they are doing.

Remedy games will show you the true power of the xbox with Quantum Break using exact digital doubles. Lets see rebellion games pull that off.

Ask rebellion games? Ha!

[snookiegamer]

480p, 540p, 720p, 900p, 1080p didn't interfere with me enjoy my PS3 games collection.

Yes, we all want new consoles to run 1080p and 60fps as standard, but you're not gonna get that consistently until the next, next gen.

So you all may as well quit crying about it now...unless you're a hapless Troll here to entertain us with age 10 rhetoric.

[pleasuretokill]

He is right. It has much less to do with the eSRAM than it does the weaksauce, cheap GPU. It is just not powerful enough to output DEMANDING games at 1080p. This is much more damning than the eSRAM. Of course it can run "Stick Figure Theatre" at 1080p/60. What can't? Throw pretty graphics/long draw distances at it and it sputters like grandpa's old station wagon.

Xbone is much weaker than the PS4. That is a fact. MS screwed the pooch here and no amount of PR magic tricks can cover this up.

$100 more expensive for games that categorically play worse. That is the cold, hard fact and the reason why PS4 will trounce the Xbone this gen.

Sure, graphics aren't everything... but they are called VIDEO games for a reason.

[bornsinner]

i have both next gen consoles and have played ryse, killzone, bf4 & ghosts on both consoles playing on a 1080p 42' sony bravia LED TV (w653) and i can tell ya that it really isn't much difference at all, they all really do look identical and do have the same experience. ps4 does have a slight advantage i noticed & it was that it had less jaggies on screen but i heard that's due to xbones over-sharpening filter, which i heard is getting a fix soon. don't let these pixel obsessed fanboys fool you all because if these clowns had sense then they would buy a pc to ensure the best specs.

also from what i heard is most devs are managing to get used to esram and are outputting at 1080p, launch games were an issue obviously.

buy a console for it's games, i'm looking forward to gears of war, halo and titanfall on xbone
i'm looking forward to sony's only decent studio, naughty dog.

[snookiegamer]

You had me until .....

'....i'm looking forward to gears of war, halo and titanfall on xbone. i'm looking forward to sony's only decent studio, naughty dog'.

Love the way you made sure to ensure we're all aware you own both consoles, but I'm not buying it. Sorry, but it beggars belief that you own both consoles, then come out with a statement like that. Naughty Dog's the only decent studio Sony has!? Pffft...Really!!!

Carry-on-Trolling by stealth.

[hardcorehippiez]

sony's only decent studio..... dont make me laugh . stealth troll spotted .

[cell989]

Forza is not considered a next gen title in my opinion considering all the short cuts they had to take to achieve 1080P 60FPS. They should have much rather gone with 1080P 30FPS or 720P 60FPS and put in some real lighting and better backgrounds, even the paper people deserve some justice

[DynDasE]

So... does this infer that the rest of the architecture is the case right ?

[That_Guy2u2]

They do know the developers aid only 1080 was possible with the cloud?

[JasonRoseEh]

The ESRam is inarguably a bottleneck and holding games back on the X1 compared to the PS4 and those examples are awful. Of course there are other reasons, but that is a major one and it won't be corrected.

[jrburdine]

OK, I'm getting tired of reading all of this stupid bull crap about which system does this and which system does that... I bought both systems on launch day because a new era of gaming is upon us... If you can't afford both systems and enjoy the exclusives from each console well then sorry about you, but until you actually see the games on your TV being played by the console you have absolutely no right to say what looks better between games, ABSOLUTELY NONE!!!!!

Now for the remark between Ryse and Killzone, it isn't even a toss up... RYSE wins hands down, detail-detail-detail people, Killzone is a beautiful game but it looks just like the PS3, with beautified lighting effects... RYSE has taken realism to a whole new level with accurate shader tones, facial detailing and over all feel of being a gladiator and just the landscaping looks outstanding, I found myself walking around parts of the game just staring at all the details whether its the building architecture or the foliage on the trees in the forest parts... I can only imagine how much better these consoles are going to look within the next 3 years when developers truly learn the power of these consoles...

Here is the XBOX fan boy in me... KINECT 2.0 IS THE GREATEST INVENTION EVER MADE HANDS DOWN... BEING ABLE TO WATCH NETFLIX AND INSTANTLY SWTICH BETWEEN APPS BY JUST SPEAKING IS OUTSTANDING AND ITS PERFECT EVERYTIME... XBOX GO TO NETFLIX (WIFE GETS UP TO GO TO THE BATHROOM) XBOX GO TO NBA 2K14 (WIFE COMES BACK FROM THE BATHROOM) XBOX GO TO NETFLIX... SEEMLESS INTEGRATION... AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THERE IS MY 2 CENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bearsfanfourlife]

I don't I don't have to justify my purchase whatever my xbox is outputting I don't care I love my xbox one I just can't use the ps4 controller xbox controller is so solid.kinect and xbox fitness so solid p90x arms and shoulders kicks my ass . So any fanboys just go away both consoles are good in there own right xbox exclusives zero p zero frames on ps4 and vice versa

[Father__Merrin]

forza 5 is 1080p with massive cutbacks including cardboard cut out spectators and no real AA

1st it was eSram is the savior, then some secret sauce, now it's a new Sdk?

come on!!!!!!!!!

[Warghoul71]

Is that native or upscaled?

[Dasteru]

So people are just suppose to trust the company that stands to loose money if the system is seen as underperforming, vs the multitude of credible 3rd partys who have actually worked with the system?

Also, Forza 5 had to be heavily dumbed down over what was originally shown, and it only runs at 30fps. Kinect sports, seriously? the super nintendo could run that game at 1080p.

[TheSaint]

30 FPS if you're lucky, it gets choppy as frick if too much is happening on screen.

Next gen first wave games should NEVER be this bad.

[Guwapo77]

First off Rebellion Games should be ashamed of themselves for asking an uninformed questions. eSRAM has nothing to do with the output resolution.

"The ROPs (render outputs/raster operations pipes) are responsible for final pixel output, and at the resolutions these consoles are targeting having 16 ROPs definitely puts the Xbox One as the odd man out in comparison to PC GPUs. Typically AMD’s GPU targeting 1080p come with 32 ROPs, which is where the PS4 is, but the Xbox One ships with half that."

The ROPs (render outputs/raster operations pipes) are responsible for final pixel output, and at the resolutions these consoles are targeting having 16 ROPs definitely puts the Xbox One as the odd man out in comparison to PC GPUs. Typically AMD’s GPU targeting 1080p come with 32 ROPs, which is where the PS4 is, but the Xbox One ships with half that."

http://www.anandtech.com/sh...

[Metfanant]

actually in the case of the Xbone the ESRAM does have A LOT to do with resolution...because of the deficiencies in bandwidth of the DDR3 compared to the GDDR5 the ESRAM is needed in attempt to make up the gap...unfortunately with next gen quality titles you cant fit the whole frame buffer in the available space of the ESRAM...

because of this you have to work around it somehow...the easiest way is to drop resolution so you can fit your whole frame buffer into the Xbone's "fast RAM"

[Guwapo77]

I'm sorry bud but that isn't the reason behind it. Have you read the article? My laptop has less bandwith than the Xbox1 but puts out 1080p because of the 680m it has. Also, it has DDR3. The problem is the ROPs.

[Warghoul71]

M$ should have made the made the kinect optional and invested in the console itself. We wouldnt b having this debate, xbox1 could have dominated this gen.

[tontontam0]

esram being too small for 1080p output is clearly not the case, xbox one is simply underpowered.

[Dasteru]

No such thing as too small for 1080p, so long as the visuals aren't too great, environments are small and not much else going on physics wise. Both the PS2 and original Xbox could technically output 1080i, PCs from 1998 could do 1080p. The Xbone's problem is not that it cannot do 1080p, it is that it cannot do 1080p with any level of visual detail that would be reasonabley expected from a 2014 console. In order for it to do 1080p, it has to sacrafice either graphics/physics/scale and/or framerates.

[dagamez]

Still gonna play games on both consoles. I will have a blast doing so as well.

[MasterCornholio]

Have you seen Titanfall?

[feraldrgn]

Forza had to cut corners to reach 1080p.
Kinect Sports Rivals is most probably 1080p because it uses the resources that are held hostage by the Kinect.

[teo72]

ESRAM can handle max 1080p 60fps at 16bit colors. Meaning that Xbone games using 1080p 60fps will look washed out compared to PS4 games using the same 1080p/60fps. Since PS4 has no problem using 32bit colors at 1080p with 60fps. Example Killzone shadowfall MP.

[TomahawkX]

wow 3 pages of nonsense, go play some games instead of arguing, fools.

[pupa]

and here you are as well???

[Ashunderfire86]

Pages of nonsense you say, and yet your commenting nonsense too.

[pupa]

I will just wait to see what M$ will bring to the party to resolve the issue. My confidence are not very high as we heard that TF's running at 792p. That's their system seller and highly hyped game! Why then?

I wait for prove of
the Neo superfast Dev kit
the extra GPU
The clock optimizations and overclocking gains
the "power of the cloudz"
the cloud AI "intelligence"
The secret sauce!

So far I have seen none of it. I wait in anticipation but IMHO also in vain.

[kB0]

ES is too small for next gen...

[Ashunderfire86]

Here the thing about the Xbox One. What I am understanding is that games on X1 that are 1080p(Tomb Raider) will run at 30FPS, but X1 games with 60FPS will output at less than 1080p. So it depends on how game developers use the Esram. I predict that Quantum Break will be 1080p with 30FPS, but a game like Titanfall 900p(upscaled 1080p) with 60FPS.