The state of N4G comments

As of right now, I'm serving a 6 day ban from commenting because I called out a "troll". That comment was then marked as inappropriate. From here I proceeded to call out the admin who was controlling the situation (rightfully or wrongfully) as they continue time and time again to allow these individuals to plague the comments of posts that they so clearly have no motive other than to stir flame.

I've been a member of N4G since 2007 where as a community, we operated on the bubble system. I missed it when it was first replaced and I miss it even more so now as it feels that the comments section are an open field for those intent on spreading negativity with little to no repercussions.

If I was to ask you who the biggest trolls are on N4G, without a doubt, we could all name at least 4 of the same names. So my question is this, why are the admins not getting ahead of this and sorting the problem? They've allowed a playground of on topic hate, but won't allow the rest of the community to call them out.

Am i being dramatic? Perhaps. I just like a clean comment section where people are actively constructive in both their negative and positive inputs. Instead, we get repeat offenders bashing their keybards without any real substance purely because they don't like a particular company or game.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Unfortunately I may not be able to respond for 6 more days.

[RaidenBlack]

So ... it was this article?
https://n4g.com/news/247968...
What happened there?

[Christopher]

One newish user gave me the necessary info to confirm they were a duplicate account and was banned. One user said a lot of opinionated and some misinformation that set others off, some typical spam account trolls created some accounts to complain about that person who was already moderated as necessary at that point, which we handled as we normally do when these normal spam trolls created new accounts. A good number of people insulted others rather than just using arguments to prove their point.

[SegaSaturn669]

You do a terrible job.

[darthv72]

@chris, what happened to the block user function? I remember it being there but now its gone. And i had made a comment (below) about how we could do our own policing of comments / users we dont want to see by just blocking... and now that comment makes no sense if the feature isnt there.

[UnSelf]

Amen, Sega.

Just read his comment history. He almost never has anything positive to say.

Somebody plz bring Cat back

[-Foxtrot]

UnSelf

In his defence let’s be honest Cat could be an ass when moderating or reviewing them. She never wanted to get involved even if she agreed with you.

Even when she knew and agreed something a mod did seemed unfair or over the top she wouldn’t do anything, another “the decision will not be reversed” rather than just undo a restriction / bubble removed and talk to the mod about it.

[gold_drake]

"handled as we normaly do"

so just the bare minimum

[S2Killinit]

I think the problem is that the real trolls pose as legit commenters. I mean, its so telling (but also hilarious) that in a article trying to fix the troll issue, the comment section is filled by the very trolls who rush to articles to derail them. I took one look at the comments and see 4 of the biggest instigators on this site all pretending to be part of the solution.

Its insane. Yet, there is no way the mods can prevent this, because the true affect of an account is only understood when the totality of that person’s comments are taken into consideration. Otherwise a lot of trully troll comments go right under the radar. And there lies the problem. Personally, I no longer care, I just give these individuals as hard a time as I can and hopefully de-incentivizing their behavior to an extent.

[VonAlbrecht]

Hey, I created an account to post on here, (TricklessMagician was the username) and one of your admins banned me as "spam" for making a comment in a thread about Final Fantasy 16. The comment was not spam, and my attempts to dispute the ban went completely unanswered.

You are an AWFUL team with zero accountability and seemingly no desire to do better.

[Why o why]

Some of the restrictions weren't warranted. It's easier to just slap a ban on than actually contextualise the conversation or god forbid unban. Also been a member since 2007

[VenomUK]

I've used and loved N4G for years because it is a place where anybody who enjoys computer and video games can chat about them with others from all backgrounds and all political views. There's no agenda, just relaxed (mostly) game conversations.

Yes there can be console war rivalry! But when it's good natured and people share honest comments about why they prefer one platform and not another there's actually nothing wrong with that. Sometimes people get too caught up with it and feel they are fighting a war for their team and this is manifested with excessive trolling, crap-posting or criticisms not made in good faith but just to score 'points' about the rival.

The voting system gives some clues about this for example somebody in a Mario Kart story might write a comment that is expressing their subjective point of view: 'I really enjoy Mario Kart' and there will be people from a rival console coming purposefully to downvote. If somebody downvotes me I couldn't give a monkey's! But if you're a N4G member and you're downvoting every positive comment about your non-favourite platform then maybe you're one of the people who feels that you're fighting a war?

Sometimes there are websites (often repeat offenders) that post opinion pieces that are actually rants about a platform they don't like that seem to always get approved. I'm not going to get into the weeds of any incidents but when I have called it out I have had my comments marked as 'inappropriate' - which I disagree with, I believe it WAS appropriate to discuss it there with others in the community rather then try and squash it or take it on to a different sub-forum. So my wish is that, going forward, valid criticisms are not seen as an attack, but as being a positive input from members who are invested in N4G and want to help.

Despite all the hullaballoo N4G has been one of the few constant social media-gaming websites that I've stuck with over the years so it is obviously doing something right.

And lastly, to every N4G fellow community member, you know that console you really love the most? It's absolute crap!

[SullysCigar]

I maybe wouldn't go as far as some others here and I appreciate moderation is a thankless task, but to quite a large degree it's just not working on N4G.

As others have pointed out, regular members just wanting to discuss games will eventually react to the small team of trolls. They are then summarily banned/restricted and the perpetrator moves to their next victim unscathed and presumably protected.

I once added a report to an article. A mod disagreed (and I've little doubt they were doing so in accordance to the rules) - instant ban. Meanwhile, I regularly see the same user abusing the system with reports. Sometimes it gets caught by an honest mod, sometimes he's backed by one and it's failed on a technically. Sometimes, you step in to reverse the fail and push it live. In any case, he retains his ability to report, again, unscathed.

One final note. I was told previously to raise a ticket in the event I want a mod to take a look at a legitimate concern. Sadly, I'm just ignored. I've only done this a couple of times, the last being over 10 days ago. Nothing.

I know you've lost a couple of excellent commenter from N4G, because I've spoken with them about it. I fear this happens more and more as time goes on and you'll eventually be left with the ones who just set out to provoke...or you'll see those that tough it out sink to the levels seemingly appreciated on this platform.

Something needs to change. The rules mean we miss big news on N4G and the comments section has turned into a playground. I hope for positive change for N4G.

[RauLeCreuset]

Hi Chris. Sorry for the late reply, but I'm coming off my own timeout for speaking truth in that situation and other recent articles about an individual whose comment history speaks for itself, containing multiple admissions of their antagonism toward this site and motives to argue in bad faith and antagonize a certain fanbase.

This is not a "both sides," "these things are equal" situation. I'm not going to name names, but you know who is being talked about. This goes beyond simply having a preference or bias and a comment history that reflects that. I have to believe that the mods see what is obvious to regular users. There are certain regulars abusing the moderation on this site, deliberately acting in bad faith in a misguided attempt to redirect conversation, shape opinion, or simply antagonize. It's obvious that they're bad faith actors when taking a holistic view of their comment history rather than only dealing with each comment in a bubble (though even some individual posts make it apparent).

What many of us are trying to express to you is that too many times these bad faith actors are not addressed and their posts are left to linger until well after they've achieved their goal if they're addressed at all. It seems there is more forgiveness for being a bad faith actor than there is for pointing it out when it's not addressed.

I refer to the comment section of this article to back up my argument: https://n4g.com/news/247951...

I have a collapsed comment in that article for calling out a bad faith actor who made sure to position an antagonizing comment where it would get maximum visibility and, in subsequent comments under the same post, ADMITTED that their initial post was "sarcasm," referred to people who frequent this site as "kids," and stated, "This site is too easy. Most who post here are way too biased to even known when your making fun of them."

All. Of. Those. Comments. Remain. Up.

The person who shall remain nameless has not been banned, despite providing ample admissions that they're acting in bad faith and that they're here to antagonize a certain fanbase. They're on restriction, given yet another chance to come back and do again what they said they're here to do.

Not only are my comments dealt with when calling them out, but I also had a comment collapsed after for stating I thought an article fell under the story within a story guidelines when replying to someone I thought to be acting in good faith in questioning whether the article should be a duplicate. That person was collapsed and rightly so because their response to me revealed their OP was made in bad faith. My comment was collapsed, which seems a bit harsh considering I was responding in good faith and did not reply again once it was revealed the person was engaging in bad faith. Beyond that, someone else who did continue to engage that person was not collapsed. I don't think they should have been, but where is the consistency? I'm pointing out inconsistencies on the same thread. How is that? It gives the impression that some us have a target on us, whether it be for previously calling out the bad faith actors or other reasons. Conversely, there doesn't seem to be much scrutiny of the bad faith actors, and there's a seeming delay and reluctance in dealing with them.

[RauLeCreuset]

I'd be remiss if I didn't also address the history of people using being in the minority as an excuse to attack the majority fanbase on this site and seemingly being given leeway to do it. It's like they're playing the refs. The more they accuse the site of bias, the more leeway they get to attack the other fanbase. But don't dare point it out in response after one of their many posts attacking the community.

As for the bubble system, I'm against it. Despite what I said above, there's too much downside to a system that ties the ability to comment to popularity. It does make it easier for the community to relegate bad faith actors (of the minority at least), but it comes at the expense of people who may have an unpopular preference or position but nevertheless engage in good faith. It was also prone to a mod overriding the will of the community by collapsing comments and consequently reducing the number of bubbles.

The system in place is good. There just needs to be a greater emphasis on addressing the known bad faith actors. Maybe take a holistic view of people's commentary, starting with those who post frequently and position their comments where they're more likely to be seen, and also what they're submitting, approving, and disproving. These bad faith actors want to be seen. They will make themselves known. That doesn't mean everyone who fits the above criteria is a bad faith actor. It doesn't mean everyone fitting that criteria whose commentary reveals a bias or preference is a bad faith actor. However, it is a good place to start to weed out those who are acting in bad faith.

Disagrees don't need to go away. Come on. They're disagrees. So what? They don't do anything other than maybe hurt the egos of those too invested in having people agree with them.

[Christopher]

***All. Of. Those. Comments. Remain. Up.***

And yet the individual we're not talking about is restricted for their actions.

[RauLeCreuset]

"And yet the individual we're not talking about is restricted for their actions."

You neglected to quote what I said literally a couple of sentences after the part you quoted. I acknowledged the person is on restriction, meaning they are not banned and have yet another opportunity to come back and engage in the type of bad faith antagonism they are on record as being here to engage in.

What I did not state explicitly is that those comments were made prior to that person going on to act in bad faith in a separate article. The one the blog post referenced.

Edit: Don't take these things I'm pointing out as me trying to dump on you, btw. I know that can be lost when some do take it to that level. I wouldn't waste my time pointing these things out to someone I think isn't reasonable or is moderating with an agenda.

[cl1983]

Just for more clarification there are differences between being banned, which means no ability to use your account or certain aspects of your account permanently, or a restriction which is a temporary loss of one or more of a account privileges.

[darthv72]

Troll comments are going to happen, and mods are likely to miss them here and there. The answer is to not give them traction.

If you are calling for someone to be silenced because you dont like what they say... that is censorship. People dont always agree but they should still be allowed to speak their mind. Just dont feed the trolls.

[gangsta_red]

"They've allowed a playground of on topic hate, but won't allow the rest of the community to call them out.."

If it's on topic, and you still want to call them out, then the problem becomes an article of just people raging on that person who doesn't have a popular opinion. Exactly how does that help anything? Sounds to me like you don't want to read comments you personally don't like.

"...purely because they don't like a particular company or game"

Yes, and they have the right to. You can do two things, challenge them with a counter argument on topic, or just know that no matter what, they'll hate that company and game and you'll just have to move on.

What I find funny the most is how people single out specific people they don't like but ignore others who do the same thing, but let it go because it's against a console or game they favor.

[darthv72]

If someone comments about how they dont like a game or platform of company... those are not trolls nor troll comments. Those are just opinions and everyone has them. Troll comments are generally much more derogatory and direct at someone and are almost always off topic. I had commented above (but now that comment is hidden because the person I responded to is hidden) about how people like to throw around the word troll at practically anything they dont like.

When you do that, it loses all impact of what it was. If you truly believe a persons comment (or the person themselves) is a troll... report it. the mods will look into it and evaluate what should be done, which would be to remove the comment. If they see a pattern in the comment history, they will likely take the next step of removing that person. And each person is also capable of their own personal responsibility of blocking a user so they dont have to see their comments again.

I've never blocked a user as nothing has ever been said to me to get under my skin to the point to do such a thing... but its nice to know that option is available.

[Mr_Writer85]

"If it's on topic, and you still want to call them out, then the problem becomes an article of just people raging on that person who doesn't have a popular opinion"

Excellent point.

Why do we feel the need to "call out" fanboys/trolls?

I mean it's not like if we don't our gaming lives will be effected.

It's not on the same level as calling out a racists or sexist.

If you can't "call out" them with a solid counter point arguement then you're just as bad as them.

If you put forward a counter argument and they counter back, then they're not a troll.

[IMissJimRyan]

It always amazes me how trolls want to both spoil the environment and have people continue to pay attention to them. They keep teasing, misrepresenting, dissimulating and then they want people to "accept" that this is simply "freedom." It is free for people to go away and let the site go down, as seen in many other places.

Then they still have the question: "why did normal users leave?". I believe that more than moderation having to deal with, the trolls, incels and alt-rights themselves that are destroying everything good that people build on the internet should focus on their ghettos, like the chans and gags of life. Stay among yourselves. It's better for everyone.

(Of course I know that the nature of people who make a living messing up the comment sections doesn't let them absorb what I've written. They want everyone to be "triggered" so they can then make fools of themselves. But that's how it is.)

[Christopher]

"They've allowed a playground of on topic hate, but won't allow the rest of the community to call them out. "

User reports, comment reports, submit a ticket to discuss, send PM to discuss.

We're not always going to agree with people and there's a ton behind the scenes people don't see (especially how most often it's many people in various sides involved and even instigating things to a point and not just "these 4 users I think are the problem"), but we do listen and review when we can.

There are plenty of ways to report things, but never should the question of who is trolling or if they should be moderated happen in the comments section.

[Orchard]

What was the bubble system? Can someone explain?

[-Foxtrot]

It’s a system which people like to go nostalgic over but really could easily be abused

If people didn’t like you’re comment because they didn’t agree with it then you were down to one bubble in no time and even when you complained to the mods to say “hey my comment might not be liked because of opinion but you can clearly see it doesn’t fit the criteria of trolling / bad language/ spam etc” they didn’t care, basically “we know…BUT the decision won’t be reversed”.

If anything the open zone should come back but I don’t think Newsboiler give a shit these days, hell we don’t even get the monthly competitions anymore.

[CDbiggen]

Can't believe I've been on here long enough to remember that.

[darthv72]

Yep... good old bubbles. Aside from people popping them there were the constant bubble begging comments as well. I also seem to recall there was a user that people would refer to as "he who shall not be named" but I think the name was nasim or something like that. I dont know the whole story behind that user but they sure were a stickler about nobody mentioning that name. It's been 15 years since i joined... it's def had its ups and downs.

open zone... god the crazy stuff people would say there.

[sinspirit]

Personally, I liked it because with limitations did come positives to more respectful users. At the time, I certainly wasn't on the more popular side of things but because I was respectful I had tons of bubbles. I would say that currently some very common posters on here would have one bubble and that does suck, but I feel that for those that want an honest discussion and not have things behind a guise of what they're real reason for commenting is it did benefit real discussions and thinking before posting.

I don't have a comment on the authors discussion of his situation. But, I might be aware of the four he's talking about and if it's the same people that get the first word in on every single article and have biases where the same thing would be a small deal for one platform and a big deal for another. It is so tiring to see the dedication to appear nonbiased and like true multiplatform gamers all the time but see that their eyes only truly widen when their favorite platform does something positive, and to do sly downplays of competitors. My biases are clear and I have objective reasoning for it. But, I don't fanboy about my favorites at all. If they screw up I call them out for it. If they do good then they get my money. I don't need to preach about every good thing my favorite platforms do.

[CDbiggen]

Real OGs remember when this site was split into consoles. I signed up for PS3 today, I think it was.

[Omegasyde]

Monthly Competitions were fun. Bubbles were not, but it did limit troll accounts.

The disagree vs Agree system works, lately and not just on N4g people complain just to complain.

[xHeavYx]

The bubble system was not perfect, but to me it was way better than what we have today

[Nineball2112]

If I remember correctly, the upper limit on bubbles was 10. It was rare to see anyone with that many, but there were a few.

[Bladesfist]

It was a system that allowed for popular opinions to be shared more commonly than less popular opinions. Every user had a set number of bubbles (I think it started at 5) and they could only comment that many times on each article.

Then depending on how many upvotes and downvotes you got your bubbles would increase or decrease.
I remember a lot of Xbox fans (who were the majority on this site at one point but have been a minority for a long time now) had 1 bubble.

[Popsicle]

I was not a member, but was a lurker for a very long time. Today it is hard to believe, but in the early to mid 360 days, Xbox fans outnumbered Sony fans by a significant number. The pendulum has swung in the other direction, but there definitely was a time.

[DOMination-]

Proud member of the 1 bubble club here!

[Stanjara]

I believe that your post likes were transformed into bubbles, and they were seen by others. Like a reputation system.

So when a person with 9 bubbles says something negative you say: what a minute, hold up! Let me think about it cause this guy usually get things right.

Also, a troll can't get 9 bubbles.

[deleted]

The flaw in the bubble system was that there was nothing stopping users from jumping between proxies and spam downvoting a user until it popped all of their bubbles. It was a good system in theory, but very much abused.

[Yui_Suzumiya]

Bubble up!

[Orchard]

Interesting, thanks for clarifying. Isn't that system kinda similar to what we still have, but I guess it currently has less community input?

People who are more active seem to have higher comment limits per article. I'm also just guessing that more comments results in the increased amount of allowed comments, I could be wrong.

[SonyStyled]

No it’s not similar at all. It had nothing to do with activity.

When I joined, you had 3 bubbles per article, meaning I could make an OP comment or response to another user 3 times per article. That was literally it.

So if you were a recognized member of the n4g community, and your comments were for casual gamer conversation on this site (so no fanboy/troll bait), your comment could be ‘liked’ by other users. After enough ‘likes’ of your comment from the community, you will find a 4th bubble on your account… and bubbles weren’t a thing you earned overnight. You literally could not have a conversation in the comments section without bubbles. Most people had few bubbles but there was one or two users per article with 7 or 8 bubbles. I don't remember seeing more than that.

Under the bubble system, a troll or someone making fanboy comments to stir the pot, the community had the power to downvote the troll to one bubble (comment) per article.

Under todays system a troll can comment as much as they desire per article, but we as users can only upvote/downvote or mark as spam

[Orchard]

Yeah it’s not similar to the current system at all - I stand corrected.

Christopher also corrected me that on the site currently, increased activity does not grant a higher comment limit.

[darthv72]

I know there is still a limit on commenting. I think its 10 comments. I know i have reached comment limit on various threads a few times.

[anubusgold]

They will still vote you down as Inappropriate if you criticize sony at all.

[MaximusPrime_]

I love those bubble system old days.

[Bladesfist]

The comments on this site have always been pretty bad, there are many better places to go if you actually want to have a discussion about games, this site's strength has always been that it highlights interesting articles, the comments have always been a mess.

[Profchaos]

Id probably disagree I think we have it pretty good in comparison to a site like IGN where every conversation is toxic and you never see the same person twice.

I've had pretty good discussions on this site over the years and I think the regulars are apart of that.

[Bladesfist]

I haven't seen IGN so you're probably right, but this place seems to always be stuck in the console war. I just want to talk about games, not argue over which platform is best and I think if your focus is on the games and not the console war there are much better places to go and discuss them.

[Nacho_Z]

@Profchaos

I think that's fair to say. Most of us know who the subtle and not so subtle console warriors/trolls are and they can be laughed at and avoided.

On the whole though it's less toxic than IGN for example.

[Crows90]

A user in every site has said the same about the site they comment in.

[Nineball2112]

Gamespot was way worse. Hell, it might still be way worse. I wouldn't know. I left there to come here when I realized there was blatant unfair moderation on that website.

[NoFanBoy]

The state of the site in general.

[PimpDaddy]

I rarely comment on this site. Seems both the majority of the members and moderators seem to have very biased slant in favor of one console manufacturer.

Makes it hard to have open and honest conversations. Like some BS Videogame Cancel Culture up in here.

I just come to read the news and laugh at the comments 🤷‍♂️

[Gamingisfornerds]

That is exactly the biggest issue here. The mods on this site are actively enforcing this behaviour by very selective moderation. I’ve been on this site long enough to have noticed the patterns and how could you not really.

I mean I love my Xbox and PlayStation consoles, but come on, they are just pieces of equipment. Why people get so heavily invested in their manufacturers really is beyond me.

😘

[Nineball2112]

As a prior Mod myself, I can tell you that everyone on the Mod team is as fair as they can possibly be. It truly was not selective moderation and I don't for a second believe that it is now.

Of course the Mods are still human and they might have some bias, but that was never shown to me and I tried not to be biased when I modded. I gauged each comment on it's merits, not whether it was pro Sony, pro MS or Pro Nintendo.

But, I doubt you'll believe me.

[ApocalypseShadow]

Come on pimp. Don't play the "favor of one console" slant. You and others like The Mart, Blood Mask, The Real Deal many named guy, etc etc were playing it up when Microsoft launched first before Sony did with Xbox 360. And you guys were relentless.

When Sony caught up and then ultimately destroyed Microsoft last gen, you guys started playing the victim that there are more Sony fans than Xbox fans. But the truth worldwide is that there are more Sony fans than Xbox fans. That's just a fact. They're fans because Sony keeps delivering consoles and games while being worth way less than Microsoft's trillions. We mostly no longer had to hear misleading statements, lies, misdirections, we no longer had to hear about comparisons from sites that knowingly made Sony look bad on purpose. Sony doing well shut a lot of you up because you could no longer say anything bad. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, there's a claim of bias. But the fact is is that Sony has more fans for doing more for gaming where it counts.

As for the topic, I didn't care for the bubble system. I gained bubbles, lost bubbles. All depended on who came after you on comments. Open zone was Mad Max of trash. Like Jerry Springer. A little icing is okay. Too much is detrimental. As for mods, they are hit or miss. They catch some, miss some that are obvious. Sometimes start the very thing they should have avoided. It is what it is. My choice is to not always rely on the site for news or discussion.

[Neonridr]

the problem with the bubbles I found is that even if you said something worthwhile, a lot of times people would just downvote you because of your name. I try to be quite level headed on this site, and actively support both Nintendo and Sony while still respecting what MS brings to the table. But once someone usually disagrees with you a couple of times, it stopped being about what was said and who said it.

[PimpDaddy]

Apocalypse. I owned both the 360 and PS3 back when I joined. Even back then this website was mostly slanted towards the console you and others like better.

The bubble system was the worst. Agree there. But again the mods and most of the members here prefer the one console manufacturer. So the conversations tilt in that direction.

I really don't care for the console wars. Again. I can and do play whatever game I want on whatever console I want.

Some of YOU are in denial about the state of the comments and moderation on this website. So nothing that I say will change YOUR mind. Cute that you remember me though 😂😂

[xHeavYx]

Funny you mention that, but since you've been on the site for so long, you must remember than a known "Xbox supporter" was made (and is to this day) a mod.
I think the experience we had was based in our console of choice back then

[Elda]

Folks should be able to say what they want about video games & the platforms they are on no matter if the comment is considered negative or positive. Everyone has opinions & everyone's opinion isn't going to coincide with others. As long as the comments are not personally attacking an individual such as being disrespectful,name calling or bigoted & racial epithets. It's a shame when some folks get emotional or offended over a piece of plastic as if that piece of plastic is their mother or father,a sibling,their child or a spouse.

[Profchaos]

I saw this exchange take place and I have to say I can understand how you feel that way I don't think you should have been banned but I don't think either of you should have been in my opinion. But calling out an admin for not doing their job wasn't smart when you couldn't convince the person to change their view.

The person you call a troll isn't a troll he just had a unpopular opinion and was vocal about it. He didn't say anything offensive or attack anyone directly but he disagreed with the majority.

It was clear that person was trying to be provocative in the comments section I'll give you that but it's not trolling.

Disagreement with the majority doesn't make you a troll. Disliking a company also doesn't make you a troll.

I've been coming to the site for many years probably longer than the poster and I have seen popular opinion sway in a few directions but ultimately conversation is much more healthy than other sites in that asking questions or disagreement with the majority is not a problem but the bubble system is not something that I want to see again.

[Gunstar75]

I've had bans in the past for really stupid reasons. I've seen much much more offensive commets go ignored.

The admins are biased.

It's sad becuse as a news aggregation site, it's otherwise quire good

[SDuck]

My first account got permanently banned without warning and I never said anything controversial enough for that to happen

[ghostrider32]

We need a block button. There would be less drama.

[darthv72]

I havent used it but I recall there being one. I had to go look and cant find it anymore... weird.

[1nsomniac]

You used to have one on the old bubble system. It worked very well as you could simply block the pathetic fanboys and you would never see their comments again but you could keep the realistically critical ones. That worked well but the bubble system could be abused quite badly also.

[Flawlessmic]

Yea a block button for the people that dont add anything of value, and just post the same.short comments meant to incite would be great.

[DMgHalt]

troll and negative comments drive engagement which increases traffic and views which is what advertisers are looking for when buying ad time.

[1nsomniac]

The cancer that is ‘Marketing’.

[darkrider]

I think comments are much better then in the past. Sorry but we could see 200 or 300 comments very aggressive and with no information. You have an opinion but you don't need to call names to others. But it's not trolling when you are talking with more then one gamer and saying what you think without any kind of insults. Now there is something new happening and this is being talked on youtube about the unpayed ambassadors of brands trying to control the narrative and blocking news everywhere that arent good for their brand. For me thats unbelievable. Like one youtuber that I liked says "play games, not corporations". Bring us more games to talk about. OK, back to wot.

[1nsomniac]

If you’ve been active on this site for many, many years and iterations like I have. It’s very clear that this site is struggling deeply and openly with this ‘unpaid ambassador’ problem. The only doubt is whether they are unpaid or not.

[darkrider]

For what I've read they aren't. But you never know. Social media and sites have huge impact. It's very important to win the narrative. They try to say the some thing over and over and that make it true. It doesn't. To find some kind of victory by tryng to spin the facts. But I think many of the more toxic and aggressive are gone. I just wish I could write better English, because many times i can't find the right words. And the text are big... and a mess... For that I apologize.

[thecodingart]

I had an account since 2007 that was banned without any information on why. It was terrible and detrimental considering how long I had the account. That helped hammer in the thoughts that ultimately, I do not think moderation has displayed a positive effect within the N4G comments. It has always felt very subjective and dogmatic rather pragmatic and rule based. I have definitely been discouraged from investing time into any filling discussion from my experiences.

[massterchef]

Had almost the same experience

[Muigi]

My first account from 08 got banned the admins used to be way stricter and kind of snobbish when you would go back at them. Trust yeah it’s kinda a PS4G joke now but it’s better than it was back then. Lol I’m old enough to remember this site was all about the Xbox 360 before the PS3 Slim evened the field.

[Christopher]

Are you asking for Columbo and Smokey to come back as a moderators? 😈

[Muigi]

Hahaha definitely 🥲

[Nineball2112]

Oh, god. Columbo and I didn't get along all that well. LOL I can't remember if I had any run ins with Smokey.

[GoodGuy09]

Well hey someone finally called it out. N4G is full of toxicity. Very opinionated and full of trolls and fanboys. The only articles that actually have comments are the ones that have everyone going at each other's throats. There are also legit articles or opinions against or with a certain company that get flagged because of angry fanboys.

Honestly, I think the disagrees should go away. As for the fanboys and trolls, please just stick to your platform of choice's articles. But hey, it's the internet so this is everywhere, there are sites that have better communities though.

[Christopher]

I agree with getting rid of disagrees. Too many people are fascinated by that. To note: that is out of mine and the rest of the mod team's control. But, it's something we've suggested to the owners, who are working on things but not this specific thing. But hopefully something for the future.

[John_McClane]

I see a lot of comments hidden as inappropriate and when I read them I can't for life of me figure out why.

[Christopher]

@John_McClane: Most of the time it's either trolling/personal attack or off-topic. The first two are easy, but tons of people don't understand that, for example, bringing up Sony's current year releases and nothing else into a submission about what Xbox will do to replace Starfield's absence later in the year. For off-topic, they are often flagged more to keep things on-topic than anything else. I think a lot of people just want to bring up whatever whenever, but that's not how it works. There has to be a connection to the submission or a tangential relationship. We try not to go overboard on flagging those, but some submissions just need it because the submission is being completely ignored.

[Orchard]

I basically started ignoring up/downvotes a while back, it really means nothing in either direction, same with YouTube etc.

@Christopher Out of interest, what's the relationship between moderators like you, cl1983 etc and the owners? I thought you guys WERE the owners. Who owns N4G then?

Also since we're having a conversation about how the site works. Does a certain threshold of people marking something as inappropriate/spam auto-hide it? Or does it just generate moderator tickets?

[fitofficial]

Anger breeds engagement. That's why nothing changes for the positive.

[Popsicle]

This is unfortunately very true.It is our nature as humans to gravitate towards more contiguous subjects.

[fitofficial]

It's exactly why YouTubers beg for people to comment their suggestions and opinions. They know it's going to start fights and drive up their numbers.

[GamingSinceForever]

Like someone said just stop feeding the trolls.

Why let them get to you when you already can predict how they are going to comment?

[moomoo319]

Ay man these admins once approved a prostitute bj vid from GTA IV. I directly quoted the video in a comment and they banned me for 30 days lmao. How does one approve such a video then deem the content innapropriate two seconds later, at my expense 😂. I asked the admin and he was some weirdo on a power trip.

[CDbiggen]

Ok, that's hilarious

[porkChop]

Man that reminds me of the GameTrailers forums back in the day. I remember there was a poll one day, and one of the options was something about farting. So this guy comes in and says something like "Ay yo there's people farting in here?" The guy got banned! Oh man I laughed hard, it was so stupid.

[Aloymetal]

For those who are saying this site is biased, there's a simple solution for it, just go and join (if you haven't) any main/popular gaming site like IGN, Gamespot etc and feel free to post there, those sites are biased but for the platform you like. If you feel uncomfortable here then moving to another site may be the best decision for you.

[John_McClane]

This seems like a comment meant to inflame the situation here even more.

[Aloymetal]

That's the way you see it but you're entitled to your opinion just as I am.

[thesoftware730]

By your comment, you are admitting this site is biased towards a certain platform? I wonder which one.

And this site is a very good gaming news site, so why don't the biased people leave so people won't have to be subjected to broken record talk.

[FanboysKiller]

The problem starts when anyone get offended , this place is much better than many , believe me , I've seen much worse from many different places without mentioning any names.

[Magog]

You can say resetera. It's okay. I got a permaban from there because I said Kingdom Come Deliverance is a good game. (The CEO was cancelled by them unbeknownst to me)

[ChubbyBlade]

This site wants to treat everything with kid gloves.

[1nsomniac]

I’ve said it numerous times over the last 2-3 years that this site has gone way down hill. Whether the old bubble system worked is not here nor there. But the site was fundamentally run better. This cancerous Sony shill PR stunt team that runs it currently is the problem.

In that time of course there’s always been console wars and that will always continue because - well people are stupid, over their silly plastic toys! But Let’s get this straight the last 2 generations I’ve only had PlayStation consoles. Before that I had an original Xbox then 360. But recently my gaming news tends to be Sony news. At no point should that mean I can’t critique or complain when something doesn’t work or is just plain wrong!
The behaviour on here goes from the apparent “PlayStation community” is way beyond stupidity and into the realms of serious issues with mental health or just mindless corruption. A lot of it is quite clearly paid and manipulated nonsense that is pushed by moderators. Which Is quite clear by the content of the posts made. Followed by moderators censorship of valid responses. This site needs to grow up along with its moderators. It’s embarrassing.

[ManMarmalade]

Mods are very selective on this site.

[terstomp]

I know if you criticise or call out Microsoft too much, a corporation not an individual, no bad words, no insults to anyone, just telling how it is, disappointingly, that's enough to get you banned. Buts that is the state of censorship on the internet today.

[John_McClane]

I have to say I agree with this article 100%

[FPS_D3TH]

Lmao yup… I got week ban once because I responded to a troll comment that gas lighted me over the fact I typed 32mb ram instead of gb and instead of warning or banning the troller, they banned me. N4G is like walking on egg shells and the comment section is full of cringe fanboy comments. Rare to get an actual intellectual conversation about games. Is there an alternative site like this? I do usually enjoy the conversations had here but I’ve learned to just ignore a lot of the bait articles

[slavish0]

Mods and comments have been horrible here for awhile. I use to come here daily, nows it's bi-monthly

[sourOG]

If you see my name and think I’m trying to troll you, know that I am not. I’m just being honest or making a joke. I admit that I sometimes trigger folks with my opinions but that is not intention.

[RosweeSon]

Seems fair enough, how it should be just a bit of a laugh it’s not the end of the world etc. Think people are too easily triggered especially recently after last couple of years. I’m no saint but I wouldn’t like attack or go ape or what not people should be allowed to freely discuss tho it’s a multi platform site if people want Xbox only or Nintendo only or Sony only (see all 3 unbiased 😑🙄) go to the official sites otherwise you will see people calling out bad practices and there have been so many recently it’s unreal unfinished broken games, microtransactions for extras that used to be free unlockables, season passes nearly as expensive as the games on launch 10% of the content and by time the contents out its 50-70% off (proper con) next gen consoles with barely 2 next gen games over 3 years 🤨 people should be calling this stuff out should be getting 3 at least day one jeeez 🤣🙄

[Wrex369]

People shouldn't be so invested in news pages. No offense but say what you want, how you want, anybody spending extra time to troll for fun or otherwise is just sad and I don't care lol.

"You cared enough to post" said the person right under me, I'm sure, but seriously relax and get news, comment casually. Pieces of plastic, that's it.

[Crows90]

You can always ignore the comments you dont like.

[CDbiggen]

Yes exactly, why is this so hard for people to understand.

[CDbiggen]

Can anyone make a blog post then? I'd like to make one on nude mods and why they're an N4G tradition.
Seriously though I didn't think you could be suspended here for for calling someone a troll; I'm sure I've seen people say that to each other forever since being here. The normal penalty for any infringement of Christopher's law is comment gets hidden with the dreaded label of inappropriate. It must've been a repeat offence I'm afraid to say. Free Mr Cheese I'd say in an ideal world, but that is not the case. You shouldn't have fed the t r o l l. I don't think you'll be missing much scintillating chat in the next 6 days somehow.

[XxINFERNUSxX]

If I ever ran a site like this one for example, I would enable free speech and no bans would be given, unless there are real true threats then of course there would be a ban.

[Elda]

Agreed.

[thesoftware730]

As long as people aren't personally attacking each other, like bad name calling, cursing, being racist, homophobic, or things of that nature I don't see a problem. We come here to read video game news and have debates/arguments about them..that's the fun. The problem is you have to be very very careful what you say about one system in particular because the mod often comments in favored of that system..I mean clearly, and doesn't even pretend to be neutral in the position.

We should be able to argue/debate and discuss within the above criteria as long as it's about videogames..any game, any system and any non-offessive opinions.

[Elda]

I agree. It seems the moderators are also taking offense, if one says something about the mods favorite game or platform they want to mark them as inappropriate or temporarily banning you for stating your opinion or your truth. One of my comments was labeled inappropriate for telling the truth,guessing sometimes for others the truth hurts.

[John_McClane]

I couldn't agree more.

[Yppupdam]

my previous account was permabanned for reporting actual spam comments a couple of times in a week. or that is what I have to assume, because the moderators never gave me the reason for the ban. even after multiple requests for comment. to this day I still check to see if I can log in to my original account just for the heck of it.

[Asuka]

Pretty much. Probably been a member here longer than most (back when this was actually 3 separate news sites). There is a reason why I hardly comment nowadays. Nobody here can actually carry a conversation about gaming anymore. Always trying to start shit, and it's been that way for years. Nothing being done about it, but hey it brings in the web traffic gotta pay for server maintenance some how.

[Yppupdam]

I agree, too many users that cannot help but, insult with phrases that I would be embarrassed to use. "Sony Pony" what the heck does that even mean? "Xbot" a moronic insult. These are the kind of people that name their pets a variation of what they are, "catty the cat" and "doggie the dog".

[TheColbertinator]

Let us bring back the O P E N Z O N E

[Christopher]

Honestly, if I could, I would. Make it hidden from search engines, require login to see/participate, move people here instead of banning them for trolling, and let people have their petty arguments there. It was *a* solution that kind of prevented much of what people don't like, which is being overall limited from talking because of the manner in which they chose to express their preferences. Still moderate for personal attacks, spam, and the like, but let people troll all day long about plastic and games if they wanted.

[TheColbertinator]

Yeah we had some fun back in the day that's for sure

[-Foxtrot]

"Honestly, if I could, I would"

I think someday, especially after this article, you need to make a blog post on what your role is, what you can do, what you can't do and who gets to make those decisions. Maybe talk about some of the sensible things people have brought up on here.

At least then you can direct peoples suggestions and the like to those who possibly could do something and yeah it's probably a long shot, probably wouldn't make a difference but I think it's better than people thinking you can do X, Y and Z when you literally can't.

I mean we had a suggestion tab on the right side of this site when the new layout went live, did those suggestions even get looked into. Someone at Newsboiler must be accountable, we already know the other Newsboiler sites like Filmwatch and TechSpy are just dead, so someone must still be running things, kind of.

Just a thought to consider at least.

[Popsicle]

Would like to give props to the mod team for letting the article be posted and keeping the comments open. It would be uncomfortable going through the comments from a mods point of view, but they are allowing the discussion to occur. I do not think a lot of other places would allow this type of open discussion about how things have been and are being moderated. I have had my disagreements with moderation, and have made it known, but this deserves props.

[Flawlessmic]

Agreed mate, the mods cop a bit to much shit here.

If they were as bad as everyone makes them.put then this blog wpuldnt be here and we wpuodnt be commenting.

All i would say is that there are habitual haters that constantly post on articles that have nothing to do with there platform of choice and all they do is post snarky comments to shit on the platform never actually trying to have a discussion, those people need to be bamned as they honestly never add value just create fights.

[kindi_boy]

The upvote downvote system is the source of all sh!t.

[ManMarmalade]

Like when youtube incorporated the agree and disagree system essentially

[Flawlessmic]

I like the upvote downvote system dont see an issue with it, if ur comments are fair and not famboyish then u got no problems.

Dont see why were blaming that system for people making dumb comments.

[SDuck]

It's true that even the most agreeable comment gets downvoted by trolls, but to say the vote system is to blame for anything negative in this community is just wrong

[nix]

"Bubble system." Oh God you brought back plethora of memories back. Ah... PS3 launch days. Really missing Marty and his fanatic xbox friends. 😅

Nowadays, i just scan the top news because I'm tired of the same shit happening. I guess even trolls need a break, that's why I don't see the old gang here anymore. 😥 They were entertaining at least.

[Bathory666]

Look. A large portion of gamers are immature and toxic. But that’s also how many people are in real life. It’s free speech. Your post sounds like your trying to create something positive that just cannot happen. You can’t control speech. That’s woke ideology. There’s always going to be trolls. But people keep feeding them. Stop feeding them. That you can control and the majority of people here blame the admins, but most here ALSO feed into the trolls, reply and take the bait. Free speech is free speech. All they can do is ban for certain things. Maybe the answer is stop taking the bait. They will wither and die if they go unseen. Trolls need food. Stop feeding!!!

[SPEAKxTHExTRUTH]

Christopher is the worst mod and definitely most bias on N4G. He constantly bans me for little to know reason yet I see people make far worst comments and nothing happens to him. Any negative Sony comment and it seems like he just goes into ban mode. If you ask me it’s certain mods around here who need to be cleaned up not just the comment section…

[xHeavYx]

Hey man, I feel you. I've been a member of this page since 2013. The bubble system was not perfect, but it sure was better than giving trolls/fanboys multiple chances to post their dumb flame bait opinions.
I remember back in the day, they decided to make one of the known Xbox fanboys a mod (and the guy is a mod to this day), so that tells you how things are

[coolbeans]

You mean to tell me an infiltrator has snuck into our ranks?!?! I'll have to launch a full-scale investigation of this at once!

[xHeavYx]

According to the other comments, you mods are supposed to be all PS fanboys. I guess you had to balance the scales so, my bad

[coolbeans]

AND there are Sony double-agents in our ranks too? Then why did Christopher demand blood sacrifices to Nintendo for us to retain our modhood?!?!

[aaronaton]

Trolling and fanning the flames of the console war has kept me here since 2013.

[Magog]

Moderating a gaming site has to be grueling. Sure a few people like to stir the pot but I prefer more freedom of speach over more censoring. As long as people keep their "trolling" respectful to other users I don't see the problem. So what if they insult your favorite gaming company? The problem isn't them it's you for tying too much of your identity to it.

[franwex]

The problem with the bubble system, even if a person was not arguing-but simply stated something like: “Forza is better than Gran Turismo due to the physics engine” you could get massively downvoted by Sony fans. The only people with bubbles where the ones that confirm the website bias at the that time. I had plenty of bubbles, but I saw that pattern.

For the record. I’m not a big fan of the sim racing genre and both are equal to me.

[DOMination-]

Maybe N4G should consider removing the disagree button and just have agree. It might seem trivial but to some people, seeing a lot of disagrees on a comment can really affect mental health in a negative way and that can escalate things. Just a thought.

I didn't see the issue in question here but judging from a lot of the comments above, there is a fine line between what people consider "trolling" and simply disagreeing.

[plmkoh]

The bubble system was the best thing about N4G.

[coolbeans]

Clearly, you never met Kon. ;)

[rlow1]

The bubble system was terrible. It gave the power to the majority. People would gang up all the time to either downvote a person or to increase each other’s bubbles.
Then people with a lot of bubbles would say some inflammatory things and could ensure they would get the last word in. If anything it muted a response.
As for this opinion/venting article , didn’t know you could write your own and post.

[ElementX]

2007? I joined 30 Aug 2006! Nice to know there are some other old timers in here :)

[Mr_Writer85]

My two cents.

Admin/mods should only get involved if it's extreme comments.

Everything else the users could have a voting system.

If other users think it's trolling, just let us mark it as such.

If someone is threating someone, or being racist etc then sure swing your ban hammer.

I do think the bubble system was good as others could vote if they wanted to hear more of your takes or not.

[RetroCaptainSteve]

"Some people just want to watch the world burn."

[mark_parch]

This is only one of a handful of times i've gone to the comments section on here in many years. The best thing i ever did was start ignoring the comments as it was so toxic and no matter the article just childish pathetic fanboys arguing which at times many years ago sometimes included me. Take my advice guys ignore the comments and just get you gaming news and updates from the articles, there's literally nothing constructive to be gained from these comment sections.

[RaiderNation]

My thoughts? I honestly believe that heavy-handed policing of online forum conversation over the years has numbed an entire generation to the idea of censorship and I'm afraid it's going to eventually spill over to every day speech where everyone is just okay with the idea of losing their freedom of speech in the interest of being un offensive. I say let people speak their minds and if you can't suck it up and handle it, maybe you shouldn't be here. Sticks and stones people. Sticks and stones! We were taught this in kindergarten!

[CrimsonWing69]

I’ll be frank here, I think the moderators are just as bad. I’ve been blocked as spam for non-trolling and on-topic comments before. I just never bothered to dispute because it’s a comment and life goes on.

[ocelot07]

I sort of want to see the old bubble system back. My first account was banned for well tbh I was not to sure. I was a big 360 fan at the time back in 2008 I think. But also enjoyed PS3 and was liking the way the future of PS3 was looking.

I think I got banned because of a comment I made about Halo 3. Didn't say anything negative about it other than I didn't like the multiplayer of Halo 3. But resistance fall of man MP was fun. Well I remember I got slated I think someone even told me to kill my self. I didn't responde to any comment next day or so I was banned 🤨.

But something needs to change on here imo.

[Flewid638]

You want to call people names rather than have conversations? And if the mods won't let you, "that's bad"?

[RauLeCreuset]

Incorrect. People want to enjoy conversations, but there are also people who aren't interested in good faith conversation and make it therefore make it their mission to disrupt, misdirect, or antagonize with intentionally bad faith commentary (and submissions in some cases), oftentimes deliberately positioning their comments to maximize visibility. It goes well beyond having a preference or a bias. That's okay. What's not okay is deliberately arguing in bad faith to deceive or antagonize.

To bottom line your question, it's "bad" that moderation of those bad faith actors and their commentary is often delayed to the point of being meaningless or nonexistent but swift when that inaction to clean up the comments inevitably leads to a thing being called a thing.

[RaiderNation]

That's what ignore buttons are for. Put the decision in the hands of the users if they don't want to listen to somebody or deem something as inappropriate. Not a benevolent forum overlord who gets to decide for themselves what is appropriate and inappropriate dialogue. Let forum communication be a true microcosm of free speech in the real world. And if you are so emotionally fragile that you can't handle meaningless name calling from faceless strangers, then maybe social media (or the real world for that matter) isn't for you.

[massterchef]

Where is this razzerredux mod that banned my account that i had for 10 plus years. That is the problem is the mods are fanboys. I never swore or made racist remarks. I even emailed with my post and never got a response.

[Gravedance]

The bubble system was legitimately terrible. Any user with opinions that weren't in line with the community hivemind lost their ability to expose their views, leading to nothing but a sitewide echo chamber.

[Anon1974]

I hardly ever use the site anymore after being an active user since 2008, for exactly this reason. There was a time when you could have a conversation with like minded gamers without too much interference but things steadily declined and it was right around Gamergate that I had to tap out. I'd had enough. It's distressing to see that in the 8 years since Gamergate ruined game forums everywhere, sites like N4G still haven't resolved the issue of toxic commentators who exist simply to troll fans of gaming.