DragonKnight (User)

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On Kojima, Quiet, And What Actual Maturity Is.

DragonKnight | 472d ago
User blog

Here we go again. Western ideology trying to impose itself around the world, oblivious to culture or society. First it was Dragon's Crown and its creator being labelled a 14 year old boy, now it's Hideo Kojima being labelled misogynistic. Why you ask? It's all because of the female character known as Quiet and how Kojima deliberately made her appearance to be more "sexy" for cosplayers. That's what we have to work with right now.

This of course blew up into a metric f***ton of feminist buzzwords being thrown about by immature pseudo-journalists who are hitseeking by latching on to another piece of feminist dogma vs. video game design. Any second now I expect a tweet or tumblr post from Anita Sarkeesian, written by her boyfriend of course, completely trashing Kojima's design choice.

The interesting thing about the individuals who are against the design are that they couldn't care less about the character's backstory, in game skills, mission, or whatever. They see what they consider to be an objectified woman and pounce on the designer like a shark that smells blood. This is the first crack found in their arguments. You don't see stories asking about Quiet's skills or character in relation to what she's wearing, you see stories crying about what she looks like just because that's what she looks like.

Let's move on to the other arguments. The two main ones being realism and misogyny. Let's focus on realism first.

To begin with, unless a game is billed as "the most realistic _____" then realism doesn't apply to the game. Gran Turismo is billed as the world's most realistic driving sim, and strives to achieve that goal with every iteration. People then judge the game on that selling point. In the early years of Call of Duty, it was supposed to be a realistic interpretation of what it's like to fight like soldiers and people judged it based on that.

Nowhere does Konami or Kojima bill Metal Gear Solid 5 as the most realistic anything. To attach realism to a game that isn't trying to be realistic in anything but perhaps visuals is a fallacy. Be honest. You're not playing a game to play in reality. You're playing a game for entertainment and to escape reality. If you wanted real, that's what the real world is for. It's also what games labelled to be realistic are for. Stop attaching your idea of what realistic is to a fictional world filled with fictional characters. If games were that realistic, your game would be over the second you were shot and wouldn't be fun.

Next up is misogyny. That term is flung around without any reverence or understanding of what it means. Misogyny is a very harsh term and it DOESN'T equate to anything that may offend women. Misogyny is a deep hatred or distrust of women. How can one logically claim that a character made to be beautiful (you can't deny that Quiet is aesthetically gorgeous) is actually a statement of hatred towards women? The only women that that would apply to, if we were to follow the ridiculous notion that games impact reality, are women who are already unhappy with their appearance to begin with and take their queues from fictional characters on how women are supposed to look.

No man in the entire world thinks women SHOULD look like Quiet, or Ivy, or any female video game character. None. Oh sure, they'd like it if women did. That is to say, they wouldn't complain, but none go out into the world with the expectation that that's what they are going to get. This also means that no one treats women in such a way as to fulfill that non-existent expectation.

The people who make these complaints are attempting to create a correlation to video game representation and real world problems. But just like the fact that video games don't cause violence, they also don't cause misogyny and are not misogynistic.

But the issue here really isn't about equality or maturity. It's about special rights and special treatment. It's about having feelings coddled. True equality would see equal outrage over the Kratos' of the video game world coming from WOMEN. When's the last time you saw a female game journalist/blogger complain about half-naked, 'roid raging, muscle men going on killing sprees as being realistic? Nowhere. Why? Because when that kind of character exists in gaming, it's not misandry or sexism, it's the "ideal man." That's the argument used against the notion that men are unfairly represented in games. That men like Nathan Drake, Kratos, or Marcus Fenix are representations of what all men want to be like. Yet women like Ivy, Mai, or now Quiet, aren't what women want to be like at all. They're what men want women to be like. Or so they say.

Finally, we come to the idea of maturity. Many who are pro-feminist argue that women like Quiet don't belong in mature games. That is to say a game that truly has mature themes and tries to attract a mature audience would never have a character like Quiet in it. It's immature to have a gorgeous woman who is not "realistically dressed." This is a fallacy. Mature themes have often included full on nudity and other forms of sexuality in the Past even just for the sake of inclusion. Actual maturity doesn't hinge on conformity to individual sensibilities. What one considers mature, another would not. The true essence of maturity in games is to recognize the right to use different forms of artistic expression, support the ones you enjoy, ignore the ones you don't. No one has the authority to call Hideo Kojima immature because of Quiet. Especially since nothing is known about her full involvement within the game or what she's completely capable of.

To any who will come and argue this blog, I put forth the challenge of putting a human face to your refutations. Find cold hard facts that how a woman looks in a video correlates to how women are treated in reality. Avoid using concepts like "perception" because perception is subjective. You can make the claim that Quiet portrays a perception of women as sexual objects, and I can put forth that that perception doesn't exist for me. So put forth an actual, factual, human face to it. Using real world examples that go beyond some girl having to listen to trolls in online games.

There are a lot of amazing women out there who don't give a damn about any of this and just want to game. They'll pick up MGS5, play a game with a "sexualized" female character, and have a complete blast. But there are also people who are so dissatisfied with their own lives and their idea of how their life should be that they will jump on any chance to force the world to bend to their way of thinking because they think they are owed something. They aren't.

Developers have to listen to consumer concerns, but there is a limit. You will never please everybody, so you shouldn't try to. A developer shouldn't have to care what hurts your feelings because you have every chance to research a game, see it's not for you, and pass on it. You do not have the right to label a designer with a harsh pejorative the way people have labelled Hideo Kojima and the creator of Dragon's Crown.

In summation: Quiet is fine the way she is, it's not going to cause the mythical pay gap to widen, nor will it cause men to go out in the streets and demand women take their clothes off. Lay off of Kojima for his design choice and if you don't like the character then don't buy the game. I assure you that that is the only way that everyone will be happy... unless your only goal is to complain about inconsequential minutia anyway.

TwistingWords  +   471d ago
You sound really bitter against females.

Suck it up and grow up.

Kratos obviously resembles to that of Greek lore, how many Greek legend statues do you see wearing wearing full body suits and how many wearing tunics and of the sorts? That's probably why there was little response to Kratos being half naked, so not really seeing your logic on that one.
DragonKnight  +   471d ago
"You sound really bitter against females."

Nope. Just feminists and white knight manginas.

"Suck it up and grow up."

Such irony.

"Kratos obviously resembles to that of Greek lore, how many Greek legend statues do you see wearing wearing full body suits and how many wearing tunics and of the sorts? That's probably why there was little response to Kratos being half naked, so not really seeing your logic on that one."

*facepalm* Yeah, THAT'S why there's nothing being said about Kratos. The images you speak of aren't at all romanticized for artistic effect at all. Right?

No. The reason nothing has been said about Kratos is because no one cares. What are your examples for Marcus Fenix? Duke Nukem? The countless male characters with all the same characteristics? Are they all based on Greek mythology and that's why no one says anything? Please stop. You obviously no nothing about what you're speaking of.
wishingW3L  +   471d ago
the reason no one says anything about Kratos it's because it looks and goes well with the context of the game and its lore just like the strippers and hookers in GTA series. But Kojima's design is tacky and tasteless. There are many ways to make a woman look sexy without making her wear a pantyhose and a bikini no matter how much skin pigmentation he wants to use as a plot device to force this down our throats.

This is the most revealing and out of place outfit in the entire Metal Gear franchise and its source has nothing to do with creative freedom but business: http://www.polygon.com/2013...
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DragonKnight  +   471d ago
"the reason no one says anything about Kratos it's because it looks and goes well with the context of the game and its lore just like the strippers and hookers in GTA series."

Except that doesn't even matter. Even in games where the less clothes the better, like fighting games for example, there is still b*tching about the sexualization of women.

Plus, the overall arching point is that men aren't portrayed any more realistically than women in games and yet no one says anything about it. Did Marcus Fenix need to be the width of a rhino in order to be an effective soldier? No. Did anyone complain about it? No. Why? Because the argument is made that any muscle bound man in games is actually a depiction of the "ideal man" according to men.

Funnily enough, no woman ever asked the question of if that is true, they just assume it's true based on what roles those characters play.
Bimkoblerutso  +   471d ago
People were complaining about what a ridiculous beefcake character Marcus Phoenix is all the time. I remember it vividly....

The simple fact of the matter is that the femanazis have become so obnoxious, that it's just second nature for gamers to react to their accusations and ironically ignore what the real issue is.

Women are oversexualized in video games to the point that it stifles creativity and artistic design. The actual "sexualization of women" is not an issue. Women can be sexy and still be interesting and fit within the context of their given settings.

It's just that that is so often NOT the case. Boobs and sex are used as a cheap ploy to push a few extra copies of the game, belying any semblance of context or importance.

Pornography works on the same principle, though it's almost nobler for not operating under the pretense of artistic endeavor.
HammadTheBeast  +   471d ago
Tons of Greek female statues are naked....

I don't see that point.

Anyways, why do people just let it slide in other media forms, then s*** on people for doing it in this one?
DragonKnight  +   471d ago
Indeed they are. I believe the point he was trying to make was that because Greek statues portray heroes like Hercules as ripped and naked, that contextually having Kratos the same way isn't a problem because it fits the ancient mythos whereas one can't say the same about Quiet.

Doesn't matter though because feminists, white knight manginas, and pseudo-journalists don't care about context or story, they care about clothing.
SilentNegotiator  +   471d ago
It's a sad day when a designer can't make an attractive female character, under no pretense (he said it himself; he wants some free-advertising cosplayers), without being called sexist/misogynist.
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UnwanteDreamz  +   470d ago
I wonder if these people saying that women in the military don't look this way even know a women in the military?

Do you think a woman in the military can't wear a bikinni or wouldn't? Do you think that women who have served in Iraq and the like think they should not be sexy when they are not fighting a war?

People are stupid and offensive even when they think they are helping.
BillytheBarbarian  +   471d ago
Why is it western ideology to have "sexy" characters? Rent some japornomation like la blue girl and watch how she handles them evil heavenly beasts.

Everyone loves sexy. Not just westerners...now I'm going to play some Tecmo Dead or alive beach volleyball or konami's Rumble Roses.
XboxFun  +   471d ago
Wow, you said La Blue Girl.

This and Legend of the Overfiend has to be everyone who is 27(yo) or above introduction into the bizarre world of hentai.
DragonKnight  +   471d ago
You misunderstood what I meant by Western ideology. I was referencing the feminist need to whine about it.
wishingW3L  +   471d ago
for the lolz: http://img.gawkerassets.com...

It's a joke BTW but a really funny one.
DragonKnight  +   471d ago
I saw that, it was pretty funny.
zeal0us  +   471d ago
Off topic: Dorkly also did one on Iwata on the 2DS and Don Mattrick on X1. They both are pretty funny to me.
Welcome2Die  +   471d ago
Feminazis need something to whine about while us men are deemed expendable and we are nothing until we can shower them with money and presents.
GrandpaSnake  +   471d ago
i remember when i saw snipe wolfs tits on ps1 i was like holy cow!
Roccetarius  +   471d ago
Sniper Wolf was pretty, sure, but it was done much better than this.
sweetSWAGGER  +   471d ago
I agree with you, OP, at least to the extent that most people who cry foul don't even take the character's role into account (although I think some complaints are valid depending on the game), but that's not the only reason why I'm okay with Kojima's design for the "Quiet" character. For one, anyone who's ever played a Metal Gear Solid game will know that even the most sexualized female character isn't objectified for the sole purpose of selling game copies. They have just as many, if not more character traits, flaws and motivations than the main character. And when I think back on them, I remember their motivations and personalities more than I remember their boobs or butts (but maybe that's just me...?). Anyone who's ever complained about a female MGS character is merely going off of their basic design out of context to the game.

I mean, look at the Boss in Metal Gear Solid 3; she was a world-renowned bad-ass who was responsible for the special forces, ending the second world war, and training Big Boss (all the while making him look like a spoiled punk every time they confronted each other). However, if one were to look at her design out-of-context they'd probably say:

"Of course she's has a revealing outfit, grow up, Kojima!"

Even though if you've played the game, you'd know the reason she's showing cleavage is to reveal the caesarian scar she carved into herself in order to give birth in a live warzone. That, and she only does it at the end of the game. Even Eva, the over-sexualized character in the same game, is fully-developed. And anyone who tries to argue that she's objectified clearly didn't play the game to completion because then they'd know that that was the bloody point for the sake of the story (although one could make a good case against Sniper Wolf). Context, gents, it helps to know it.

So no, I'm not worried that Quiet is going to be an objectified cardboard cut-out because I know who her creator is. Also, and this is a theory that someone came up with, but have you ever stopped to think that maybe the reason why Quiet is half-naked is because she can somehow alter the pigments in her skin for camouflage? Watch her introduction in the game's trailer again; notice how her Eye black simply vanishes. Again, we should wait to see how she's used in the game before crying about it. apologies for the wall of text, OP.
Kevlar009  +   471d ago
This whole situation can be compared to Mystique from X-Men. Her normal form is essentially nude, but since she spends most of her time in a combat or everyday attire when she does her dirty work it doesn't matter. The moment she turn into Wolverine there are no concern whether she's unprepared visually (because she's now Wolverine)

I think it's kind of dumb this character is getting so much attention because she has a bikini top for her torso wear. If this is how we get attention for our games then it is really quite sad. Imo her character is a bit too predictable at this point. It's pretty much set she's going to be ruthless and highly skilled and that she will have some sort of hologram technology that creates different forms of camo and protection

I don't care how a character looks as long as it makes the game/character better. It's one thing if Quiet's look is part of some master plan of awesomeness, it's another if it's just an attention grabber for free publicity

We all know the game is going to be awesome and a must-have, I'd rather we move on to things that actually matter
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darkbluecrayon  +   470d ago
I do concede that the stockings are a little trashy but that's purely from an aesthetic point of view. I don't think it is offensive or otherwise and MGS V will rock regardless of what I think.
#8 (Edited 470d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Spore_777  +   470d ago
Taboo

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