Does the 360 Have an Edge Over the PS3 In the Final Stretch?

Bitmob: I'm a computer science major at a research University, and last week one of my professors gave a lecture about graphics. He works and does research with Microsoft from time to time and he actually helped them come up with the feature set for DirectX 11.

[nefertis]

It shouldn't matter who got the edge just enjoy the damn systems.

[rroded]

Maybe but as a gamer i want the best games... Specs dont mean nada still this seems a bit off.

"he actually helped them come up with the feature set for DirectX 11. One of those features is tesselation which is essentially a method to render subdivision surfaces"

Ok so is he saying the 360 can tesselate better than the ps3? So where are the games... right valves updated some of their games to do it but we just never knew? And by actually helped them do you mean he was on the ms payroll for the direct x11 project or just some teacher doing a ms funded school projects for fun and profit?

[Joule]

How can Xbox have an edge in the final stretch if they can't even keep up with exclusives?

[Motion]

Yeah, DirectX 11 can do some awesome stuff. Though, I hardly see how this is relevant to the 360, considering the hardware ONLY supports up to DirectX 9.

[MrAwesome]

Whoever has the edge dosen't matter what matters is how the developers are taking advantage of the console to make great games, with the given effort even the Wii could be the best console for hardcore gamers to own but lately the console to own is the PS3 just look at the huge line-up of exclusives it has and games like UC2 and GoW3 are pushing console tech to new boundries so if the xbox has the better tech or not (probably not) developers first and third party aren't showing it.

[Windex]

i mean seriously...

If you compare Xbox and PS3 graphics card, you will realize that PS3 graphics card actually have HIGHER general performance.

Its just that Xbox graphics card can peak higher with edram

but if you consider the fact that PS3 can take loads off GPU, PS3 graphics easily beat Xbox hands down. just look at God Of War 3, Uncharted 2 and we are still far from maximizing PS3.

[Trebius]

I'd say the 360's lack of 1st party devs is its biggest flaw that everyone seems to just conveniently ignore.

They dont contribute anything, they just buy 3rd party timed exclusivity and throw money at devs.

Sony has more than 2 dozen studios and they continue to buy more studios as opposed to CLOSE them like M$.

They're the destroyers of talent in this inudstry.

[OpenGL]

Sure the 360 GPU has support for tessellation, but it's not nearly powerful enough to properly implement it. Even the Radeon 5870, a GPU that is 8x as powerful struggles when using moderate levels of tessellation, so there's no way in hell the now 5 year old Xenos will somehow manage it in any meaningful way.

Fermi is the only GPU currently that can really handle tessellation, and it's 300W chip with over 3 billion transistors, more than 10x Xenos and the RSX.

[DelbertGrady]

Why is the PS3 still in third place if it's as good as some of you claim?

[UnwanteDreamz]

What does sales position have to do with preformance? You mean the Wii is more powerful than an xbox?

Try again

[PopEmUp]

is just one of those kindergarten kid who happen play with his daddy laptop

[Windex]

Actually, PS3 has been beating Xbox sales for 3 years before Xbox price cut/New model.

so PS3 is beating Xbox in terms of sales. and lets not forget that PS3 and xbox are not the same price.

if you find old model its 150 vs 300. and new model is 200 vs 300.

Lol @DelbertGrandy troll fail

[jden28]

Ok I've been saying this since I found out the same thing I'm also curentlyin school as a programmer and from what I've seen the x360 has been bieng held back bye Microsoft in the graphics department. ok , look at it this way in the begining developers were saying how easy it was to get a game up and running on the x360 because the hardware was using directx 9 with elements of 10 and beyond. Everyone talks about how the x360 is just like a pc " I don't believe this", but follow my logic. For those of us that actually game on a pc we've seen where we will use the same hardware but a game will have both direct x 10 and 11 support and you can see a huge visible difference... Its just that the capabilities that were always present were unlocked with the higher version of directx, and microsoft has just sent out new sdk's in april to allow developers to use this feature along with a host of other things that became available. Sadly some things are still not under developer control go read the force unleashed II interview.

Bottom line is the x360 has had this feature but developers didn't have access to it until april and it is a hardeware feature not just something its doing and we will see the results at next E3.

[rockleex]

When he realizes that the 360 GPU doesn't support DirectX11.

Have you noticed that the 360 nowadays is "just imagine the possibilities"?

Its no longer "look at what we can actually do!"

Encouraging a false sense of reality.

[ProjectVulcan]

360's tesselator is a small first generation unit. As such its not going to add in huge amounts of detail that people might have seen from all those direct X11 demos. Its like a reverse level of detail, so you add geometry as you get closer. Its not something you can just flick the switch on inside 360, it can be awkward to implement with 360's render pipeline. Developers mostly bypass it because they are aware it comes with drawbacks too.

Thing is, CELL SPEs are well suited to this sort of thing so used correctly its not an edge for 360. Bit like how RSX has a poor peak vertex fillrate but CELL is quite good at that. As long as you programme it well of course....

[redfirm]

as a game developer, i can gaurantee you that neather the ps3 nor
xbox360 nor wii can handle 100 percent tesselation, it will burn
your systems.
i wish people knew what they where talking about. you can expect tesselation on the next gen consoles.

[redfirm]

i wish some people at least knew what tesselation is before they
open their mouth.

[Kaneda]

maybe xbox can be much more if it wasn't limited to DVD media. If it is on blu-ray. It could be much more for developers to work on it.

[ThanatosDMC]

Yup agree. Let the games do the talking.

[edgeofblade]

Look... we are never going to get a constructive argument if each side keeps spewing the same shallow dogma and snark.

Quite simply, none of you on either side are willing to give up petty arguments and start discussing like adults.

Maybe I'm expecting too much of you...

[Organization XII]

ps3 is a polygon beast, while 360 is all about bump mapping ancient techniques, gears of war from a technical point of view is pure amateurish, and thats just an example, its nothing but a direct x9, 2004 based pc..

[Seijoru]

So far from what I've seen of exclusives, PS3 definitely still has the edge in graphics by a large amount.

[Genesis5]

That's because they don't use the RSX for all graphics like this knucklehead thinks. They program a lot of it to the SPE's. Thats why games programed specifically for the PS3 look graphically better

[ALFAxD_CENTAURO]

Not to mention, Developers created the MLAA Tech for PS3, better than X4 Anti Aliasing using the Cell (Processor) Anti Aliasing instead of the Graphic Processor.

Like God of War 3.

[ECM0NEY]

So then why does PS3 suffer from the worst jaggys ever?

Im not trolling I really want to know why the 360 has less jaggys when the PS3 has more powerful hardware.

[UnwanteDreamz]

http://gamerlimit.com/files...

[Arnon]

Unless that's a direct shot from your game, those are bullshots. MLAA while nice, isn't a godsend of Anti-Aliasing. There are VERY few games with hardly any jaggies in them on the consoles.

I'd say parts of God of War 3 did it well, and Halo: Reach.

[gamer2010]

You PS3 fanboys always say that, but in reality there are only a couple of really great looking games on the PS3. Most PS3 exclusives look more average.

Uncharted 2, Killzone 3 and God of War 3. Those are really the only games that stand out on the PS3. And they still aren't as great as some of you claim.

Uncharted 2 looks amazing and was definitely the best looking console game for a while, but I have played Gears of War 3 at PAX and it looks better than Uncharted 2.

Killzone 3 also obviously looks outstanding, but after playing Crysis 2 on the 360 at PAX I would have to say Crysis 2 looks better in some ways.

God of War 3 was the best looking action/platformer, but personally I think the upcoming Castlevania game looks even more detailed.

[raztad]

@gamer2010

"You PS3 fanboys" <-Wrong way to start a case, trying to discredit the other person.

I notice dude, you are comparing actual playable games that every PS3 fan can go and buy, anytime, vs games that you only, and few others, supposedly have seen/played. Hard to counteract your argument full of promises but void of tangible facts.

The only thing I can say is, people who actually owns both consoles and enjoy gaming on both, say LoS is not close to GoW3 magnificence, and its not remotely close when you check its technical specs.

[frostypants]

No, Turbine27. Disc space has NOTHING to do with the number of polygons that the system can push. At least not in any meaningful sense.

[SonyPS360]

First party support.

We've not seen the 360s full potential yet as it doesn't have the same first party developers. Just like how the Ps3 fans keep harping on about it's "potential".

[SonyPS360]

First party support.

We've not seen the 360s full potential yet as it doesn't have the same first party developers. Still, it's nice to see that the 360 still has AAA titles regardless.

[Persistantthug]

And show me instead.

[Spawn-KING]

Nope.. Main reason, PS3 has BLU Ray . To be a complete system you need BLU Ray .

[edhe]

What for? Enforce mandatory installs? slow down loading? Encourage hours and hours of pointless non-interactive tripe story cut scenes that should be stamped out from gaming?

k.

A BD drive would be decent now they're faster, but not at 1x.

[nan0]

How about because in sales, Blu Ray has been rising.

What do you suggest? never to take it to the next level? Make we should of left it at the cartridges for the NES. Atleast those won't snap in half like discs right?

We need blu ray beacuse developers who love to charge over priced DLC that should of been included in the game often use the excuse (not enough room on the disc) and look, who has the small dic? The 360 with it's 9GB disc. While the PS3 can have 50GBs loaded on a disc no problem.

Fallout 3 GOTY is a great example of this, all of it is on one disc, whil the 360 needs multiple discs.

That's just one reason.

[frostypants]

"hours and hours of pointless non-interactive tripe story cut scenes that should be stamped out from gaming?"

*cough*MASS EFFECT*cough*

[edhe]

Mass effect has very little cut-scene action. You get combat, conversation and exploration. I doubt there's more than 10 mins in me1 OR me2. You sir have failed your argument.

Not much point in having prerendered scenes when your character is customised.

[Blacktric]

@edhe

Meh. Leave those 5 year old trolls alone. It doesn't worth it believe me. So, frostypants, Mass Effect has tons of cutscenes eh? LMAO! Go play the game first.

[lowcarb]

Right now PS3 has the exclusive edge no doubt while 360 holds the multiplat. Gears 3 will hopefully show 360 has some major punch left in it but as far as the stretch goes I need to see some exclusive games 1st. I have no doubt 360 can overcome PS3 graphically. MS needs the right developers to do it and hopefully Crytek and Epic can show us what we need.

[UnwanteDreamz]

"tackedRight now PS3 has the exclusive edge no doubt while 360 holds the multiplat"

When multiplatform games start looking as good as PS3 exclusives then it will be worth mentioning IMO.

[lowcarb]

Red Dead is a really good looking game even better than most PS3 exclusives plus it's open world. Rage (not saying it will look better on 360)is also looking good and surely Crysis2 will.

[Ilikegames76]

If you say Red Dead looks better than most PS3 exclusive, you need to have your eyes check or you need to take off your fanboy goggles.

[gamer2010]

Red Dead Redemption (on the 360 at least) does look better than most PS3 exclusives. Only a couple exclusives like Uncharted 2, Killzone 3 and God of War 3 look better. RDR has more advanced graphics than lots of PS3 exclusives like MAG, LBP, Resistance 2, Demon's Souls, Warhawk, Ratchet & Clank and so on. If you think otherwise it is YOU who needs to get your eyes checked.

[Narutone66]

say that Red Dead looks better than almost all PS3 exclusive, since you only have 360 and are always trolling the PS3 thread.

[frostypants]

Let's go down your list:

Uncharted - No
Uncharted 2 - No
GoW 3 - No
Demons Souls - Maybe
MAG - Yes
LBP - No (kind of tough to compare though)
Resistance 2 - No
Demon's Souls - Maybe
Warhawk - Yes (but Warhawk is OLD)
Ratchet & Clank - You're on crack

[SonyPS360]

So all of them looking better on the 360 isn't worth mentioning?

Convenient.

Oh wait a second, alot of them actually do look as good. That's if you want to use the "graphics are the only thing that matter" argument.

[IcarusOne]

It's so lame how the Sony camp falls back on graphics every time. By this reasoning, Michael Bay is a better filmmaker than the Coen brothers because he uses more CG and flashier colors.

[pixelsword]

The article is stating that the 360 could have an edge because " From what I've read, tesselation is possible on the PS3, but the RSX chipset isn't well-suited to dealing with the massive poly counts that tesselation creates. This has me wondering if the 360 might be able to compete with or even better the PS3 as developers start to take advantage of this feature. Tesselation allows for much much higher poly counts without any hit in performance as it travels along the pipeline in low-poly form to bypass bandwidth limitations (basically the data is compressed to allow the higher poly models to get through bottlenecks at a faster pace) "

The Cell is the big number cruncher for the PS3, not the RSX. Devs who run too much through the RSX you'll get screen tearing. If you run everything through the RSX at a peak point of activity will get a lot of screen tearing and possibly slowdown.

From what I understand, the RSX is good for environments (or graphics processor... vertex program?), the cell is good for populating it (poly count... SPU), and the EIB coordinates everything (still not entirely clear on the EIB myself).

I'm a novice, so take what I just said with a grain of salt, but I've been doing a lot of reading though.

[jden28]

You are correct tesselation is possible on ps3 so are nurbs the problem is it's not a feature of the hardware itself therefore it doesn't perform it as well as it would if it had been a built in function. "Programmers' will tell you that no matter how good you write your code calling the built in functions and classes are always easier to use and faster...So it will more than likely be better implemented on the x360 now that the software will support the hardware in this area.

[frostypants]

jden, just because the software supports it, does NOT mean the hardware will be able to pull it off on a large scale without dragging performance into the mud.

The 360 is pretty much maxed out at this point. Employing yet another graphical feature is just going to slow stuff down.

You can't add more water to a full bucket without draining some first. So to pull this off, they'll have to REMOVE something else from these games to make this work well.

[pixelsword]

@ jden:

Time will tell, but already the 360 was supposed to be more powerful *and* easier to program, so it's power should have been evident already.

[vhero]

It says 360 can do it and ps3 can do it but ps3 might not be able to handle it? It doesn't say 360 can handle it though? I'm sure if it could handle it then it would have had Tessellation by now in it's games. So the whole article is pointless. The technology is possible on BOTH consoles but both cannot handle it on big games without a big hit on resources so we will never see this technology this gen anyways.

[gtamike]

The Cell has the edge over 360

[JsonHenry]

Tessalation is AWESOME!

But if the 360 can do it so well- where are the games? Because this kinda hardware accelerated stuff really makes a difference in my PC games.

I just figured if the 360 can do something so much better and better looking than the PS3 then why hasn't MS forced one of their exclusives to use it????

[likedamaster]

"Apparently Microsoft has been working closely with Valve on this, and they've actually implemented it in some of their older games."

In other words, Orange Box.

[avengers1978]

Final stretch for the 360 maybe, which doesn't have alot of years left. The PS3 will still be going strong in 5 years. I would say since even the newest 360 games don't compare with Uncharted, Infamous, God of War 3, or Heavy Rain. That the edge is the PS3 since the games are still improving on that system. While on the 360 the games are the same with little to no improvement as the were in 2007. Kinect will not add much more to the 360's life span.

[avengers1978]

These are just bots disagreeing with no reasoning because they have none. Anything they have to say about this subject is either completely made up by them, or just lies they've heard.

[Strikepackage Bravo]

360 has always had a graphical edge over PS3, PS3 has too many bottle necks.

There have been several technical write ups that showed this.

The problem is everyone is out to make a quick buck on 360 and no one invests the time and money to make games look better than Uncharted 2 on 360. The rest of the PS3 exclusives are graphically overrated.

Its kinda obvious when you think about it. Its better to lead on PS3 and port to 360 because 360 can easily handle anything you code on PS3, yet PS3 cannot easily handle anything you code on 360. That proves PS3 is weaker, it should be common sense.

[cyborg6971]

Nothing you have said proves the ps3 is weaker. Prove your lame duck theory with links. And why do you 360 fanbois have so many bubbles? Your a huge troll that proves this new bubble system is bs.

[frostypants]

You have no clue what you're talking about...

What "bottlenecks"? Let's hear it.

[ZombieAutopsy]

"Its kinda obvious when you think about it. Its better to lead on PS3 and port to 360 because 360 can easily handle anything you code on PS3, yet PS3 cannot easily handle anything you code on 360. That proves PS3 is weaker, it should be common sense."

No it just ports over easier, when programming for the Ps3 you have to code i guess you could say more diversely splitting things off because of how the CELL and RSX interact. Maybe the 360 could handle games like Uc2 and Kz2 but none of us will know until it happens.

[raztad]

I dont think the xbox is capable of replicating a game like KZ2, with all its post-processing, deferred lightning, particle effects, high polygon count, physics, and everything v-synced.

The only shooter that attempt something similar is Vanquish and game is sub-HD, being the PS3 version the only one triple buffered.

The gap is meant to increase when KZ3 launches. Game is gonna have a much higher Field of View, much bigger environments, much better textures and smoother quality image thanks to MLAA. Dont expect Crysis 2 to match it.

The xbox has an unified pool of memory + edram that allow developers to use a more "lazy" coding structure and make the console a lot easier to program for. Xenon is a more advance gpu that RSX, but the a proper usage of Cell totally makes up for that, and gives an important edge to the PS3 when handling cpu related stuff, as I mentioned above.

[ozps3]

What a ret@rd. Would expect nothing less from an xbutt

[bustamove]

Play games, not sales. Maybe you should try that sometime.

[DigitalAnalog]

MLAA tech.. in detail

http://img715.imageshack.us...

Oh, and don't cry "bullshot". Reference from Eurogamer here: (at 300% zoom, the Jaggies are apparent) Too bad 360 fanboys don't have Superman's vision.

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

-End statement

[TechnicalBS]

From a developers perspective, the 360 is a lot easier to develope. Problem is, the DVD format the X360 supports lacks memory. Both consoles have their own issues specifically for developers themselves.

Technically, the PS3 is more powerful but I don't care. Both consoles produce beautiful graphics regardless if the game was made for both consoles.

[Christopher]

Microsoft definitely has an edge over Sony in the long run, but it's not a technical edge. That edge is money and how they use it for marketing.

In the end, gamers are very happy with the results of the key software titles on both platforms and they won't stop being happy with them any time soon. What matters now is who sells their hardware the best and maintains the higher software sales at the same time.

[jjank11]

Well, actually it should matter because competition is good for any industry. Sony took a risk to begin this generation and they won out with Blu-ray and now they are finally going cash positive on console sales. As for M$, they obviously have the edge with their Live platform and getting their console out sooner. But at the end, I have all the systems so I enjoy all the systems but as I stated before competition is good. I hope that the rumoured new consoles in 2012 is just that, I'd love to see this generation last another 3 to 5 years.

[Hallmark Moment]

We'll see games get impressive on the 360 as top developers start pushing the 360 more instead of pumping out games with average multi platform engines. The 360 is more powerful proven by multi platform games being superior on the 360. Sony has talented devs making PS3 exclusives with game engines that push consoles more, it has nothing to do with PS3 being supposedly more powerful. This is why devs like Ninja Theory and others are able to make superior products on the 360 when they develop games for both consoles.

I wonder what PS3 exclusives would look like if they were made for the 360?

[jack_burt0n]

LOL u really are high on ur own supply.

So now its just the talent of the ps3 developers, what a world where being so stupid comes so naturally the 360 could not do the ps3 exclusives in the first place

AT ALL.

The only engine that runs well on the 360 is UE the rest even when built from the ground up look like halo reach, which is not impressive at all.

Damn you really do have nothing to look forward to, its kinect and bust lmao

[Roonie]

keep saying that to your self xbot till the day your exclusives start looking like ps3's exclusives.....

ohh w8 you got pretty much none comming for the next year.

[Antan]

Can you explain why Ninja Theory's custom engine had 4xAA and a top of the tree HDR engine in Heavenly Sword, which came out in 2006/7, and yet here we are 3/4 years later with a multi plat engine? With one bubble clearly you can't. And you think multi plat engines prove a particular consoles superiority? LMFAO! Still, you do provide a constant stream of comedy posts!

[Natsu X FairyTail]

-__- again

[fr0sty]

A quote from a game developer on b3d:

"Yeah that's a problem with the 'add polys' method, it just doesn't work quite right with all meshes. If the hardware solution fits the mesh then cool, but in the end it's easier to just roll your own solution that gives you total control. I've been working on something similar lately on the PS3 that creates unlimited lod's in realtime with no artist support, and it works on all types of meshes. It just seemed like the better route to take, this way the artists don't have to do anything special, they just create a single 'best' lod and I'll take over from there, and the contours of the mesh get preserved automatically on the lods. Very important to keep the artists happy "

more b3d posts about the subject:

"but to make sure the tessaltion doesnt smooth out innappropriate areas the artists still have to put in extra geometry to "hold" the shape (think small bevels on a car bonnet etc)

and for somthing like a car, its extremely hard to justify the base mesh needed, because A. its unusable as a low end LOD, and B. the same reason..the polycount has to be high enough to hold the shape perfectly, that you might only be getting a 20% reduction in overall base polygons.

now, once polycounts and hardware get fast enough, this will be extremely viable..where you can sub`d a 100k mesh into a 400k mesh for example...then it works wonders...just like the offline render world. "

There's more here:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/s...

As you can see, tesselation is possible on PS3 as well (in fact, they say the SPU's are actually quite decent at it), but in both situations you only get so far with it. Taking a 20k poly model of a car for instance, and trying to tesselate it into a 100k poly model might leave some issues where holes pop up in a surface that is meant to be smooth, etc... it's no magic remedy to make better graphics.

This is nothing new, they've been using it for years. Viva Pinata even uses it.

[rroded]

but it is a glimmer of hope for those few stalwarts hoping for something more....

still ill give ya a bub for the great work on this very informative post. But a disagree for bringing tears to my AV's favourite clients.

edit damn hit the agree by mistake :P

[units]

the whole point of the article is why more developer arent using it

[jden28]

I've read your post and article and What he's talking about is a work around to do software based tasselation, and for all porpses is extremly limited. What the article is talking about is the fact that the XEON gpu in the x360 has a HARDWARE based tasselator on board. So to give you a better idea of what what means, usually sofeware based solutions are only 10-25% as effective as a hardware based solution. So 20k to 100k poly count mesh thats a problem for software won't be one for a hardware based solution. And yes spu's can do some tasselation but it's not a built in function of the hardware so it accomplished on the software side so it will be less effiecent than the hardware tasselator thats been laying dormant in the x360, ie if you have to use the spu's to do tasselation then what aren't they doing the tasselator in the x360 is just been sitting there dormant.

[fr0sty]

no, in the thread I link to it indeed does mention the GPU being able to do tesselation on a hardware level, but states that because of other bottlenecks, using it isn't going to be the best option in many cases. for instance, if you try to tesselate a 20k poly model to try to make it look better, especially more complex models like cars, you only end up with a 20% or so savings in poly count because you have to put in geometry to force the tesselated object to retain certain features that you do not want to get "rounded" off, like the various bevels and such you see on a car's body. you can also end up with undesired results, like holes appearing where a smooth surface should be.

it also talks about how if you were to tesselate certain objects, you get no real advantage to it. buildings, for instance, do no good to tesselate. only objects with a lot of rounded edges will see much benefit. this is why not that many developers use it. it's a tech better suited for more modern GPU's that will be working with higher polygon count models to begin with before tesselation, rather than the current console gen class of GPU's that usually work with models that range from 10k-40k polygons. there are other methods that just work better in the long run, which is why not many devs have put it to use.

not to mention, the 360's version of it is not like what you see in DX11. it's close in many ways, but also has to do some things differently that in the end have more of an impact on performance than a true DX11 card would do.

that doesn't even touch on texturing and shading, raw geometry is only going to make things look so good before you have to start lighting it and applying textures. even though Xenos can render more polys per second, this is where RSX excels over the 360's GPU, as it can hand off the geometry rendering to the SPU's and then only focus on drawing textures on that geometry and then using it's fully programmable shaders (something Xenos lacks with it's shared vertex/pixel shaders) to maximize detail. The results show in the games that developers actually take the time to code right, like we see in games like uncharted 2, GT5, and god of war 3.

[JsonHenry]

I seriously doubt the SPU's are going to be "good" doing tessalation. That statement alone should make whatever else the guys says suspect...

[fr0sty]

they're game developers that obviously know what they are talking about, you are not. i think i'll trust their word.

[fr0sty]

all we have here is a case of "look! there's some feature that's been used many times before in the past that not many people have talked about (wonder why...) that is suddenly going to make xbox 360 games look better than ps3 games even though not a single screenshot or video of any xbox 360 game in development supports this statement! *waves hand* you did not just see uncharted. you did not just see gt5. you did not just see gow3. you did not just see heavy rain. 360 can tesselate! it's going to make it all better i say! better!

[Godmars290]

If devs can make a UC2, a GOW3, graphic level exclusive on the 360, why haven't they made one? Why does there always have to be a multiplatform title that gets held up to the claim only to miss the mark?

The thing thing had over a year lead, is easier to develop for, and yet we still get articles like this which about how it has "the potential" to surpass the competition in quality.

[moparful99]

I'm right there with you.. Every new ps3 exclusive just looks better then the previous while the 360's big titles are playing catchup.. Take reach for example.. Its FINALLY had a graphics overhaul that was supposed to match killzone 2, while its worlds better then halo3 its no killzone 2.. Gears is usually the benchmark series for the 360 and gears 3 looks great but again not quite up to games like uncharted 2 or god of war 3.. Sony uses the quincunx 4xMSAA which renders some amazing textures but the problem is the "blurring" that comes with it.. Sony first party studios are masters at minimizing this blur but third party stuidos can't quite keep up.. Ohh well gt5 is my holy grail...

[T9X69]

Really? You act like a good game is based off its graphics. Halo doesn't need Killzone 2's graphics to be a great game. I will take content over graphics any day of the week, and Halo does just that. Killzone 2 is a great game and one of my favorite PS3 titles I own, but it lacks variety hard, where Reach has more content than Killzone can even think about having. 360 doesn't need to play catch up in the graphics department because it will never match some of the PS3 exclusives, it's about the gameplay. Halo Reach has good graphics, not great, but good, and the gameplay is where the game shines, which is what I care about most. If a game can have great graphics, tons of content, and great gameplay, than thats even better, but if a game doesn't match other games in terms of graphics, that doesn't make it a bad game, or needs to play catch up.

[outrageous]

This generation of gaming would be lost without M$ and the little engine that could, the xbox 360.

It's fun to read these posts by kids trying to rewrite history, like Sony losing billions the first 3 years of a ( so far ) 4 year life cycle never happened. Xbox is closing in on 6 years and still ahead by millions over the once dominating Sony PS brand.

Gears Of War launched in 2006 with a E3 trailer that blew a RPG size hole in the chest of Sony's super computer. It sent poor ( 2.3 million sold in '09 ) Killzone back to the drawing board and forced UC to adopt ( and fail miserably )the awesome cover/gun play/melee system. Here's the trailer that began 360's hardcore dominance this gen...bit blurry the video, but the awesomeness shines thru...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Now the kids get all upset, but there is a reason these guys always want to compare themselves to Gears...It's the best looking and playing game this gen. Sales for the franchise has been solid, actually spectacular by PS3 standards at 12+ million for the first two games. With Gears Of War 3 launching in April of next year with new enemies, new weapons, 4 player story based co-op, Firefight/horde mode and dedicated servers...this will be the best Gears ever....take a look...this game has more game play in 3 mins than most entire games.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Halo 3 launched in 2007 and continued the bloodbath with a multi-player/co-op/forge combination the Sony exclusives still can't match years later. It went on to sell an unprecedented 11+ million exclusively on the 360 and smashed the competition at the same time. Halo reach a mere few days old is off and running with 4+ million is sales it's first week. Again unmatched in game play and features with 4 player co-op, Firefight, Forge and one of the best multi-players, proven by the steady solid numbers going back several years. Sony and Insomniac tried to duplicate Halo's special qualities with Resistance but didn't quite get there with Res 2 selling 1.9 million.

Third party support was critical for M$ this gen after trying to go it alone last gen and that decision, in part, lead to an estimated 3.7 billion loss for Xbox. M$ embraced third party devs and the pay off has been huge with 360 regularly outselling the PS3 multi's by millions. MW2 has been one of the highest selling games this gen and sold 3+ million MORE on 360 than PS3...INCREDIBLE!!!

So where does that leave us now...well 2010 was a no show for Sony. Mag update 2000 launched with last gen graphics and no single player, just multi-player. Then HR launched with no co-op, no multi-player, no dlc...heck, the game doesn't even have game play. You could play it on a DS with your toes. GOW was a nice 8-10 hr rental, again no replay value at all with no multi-player or even DLC...good thing the on line is free huh. That was in march I think???...nothing else to talk about except some brutally ported multi-plats, Sony Wii Move HD games and a car sim that is going up against a COD in November...O_o

So to answer the question...M$ not only has the edge, but if Kinect takes off like many think it will, they may even catch the mighty Wii. M$ is really only competing with themselves at this point. Sony waits for M$ to decide what direction to go in and then they try and act like they new it all along. That's why they are still in last.

[moparful99]

Did I say that a good game is based off graphics? Nope, you are taking my remarks out of context.. Graphics is just a single element in the equation for a "great game" But this discussion is about graphics, not gameplay.. But yes you're right a stunning game is nothing without high quality gameplay.. But you are dismissing graphics as unimportant and thats just not accurate.. Sharp graphics enhance the overall experience without a question.. But as far as halo goes the single player campaign is weak IN MY OPINION. It comes off as repetitive and tedious to me.. Killzone 2 was a fantastic shooter that was compelling and the multiplayer was solid.. If not for the top notch graphics of killzone 2 it would have been another shooter lost in the shuffle but the combination of stellar graphics, compelling campaign, and solid multiplayer it stands out as one of the finest shooters this generation...... OHH and outageous your 1 bubble means I didnt read a single word you said.. Its probably rubbish and full of fail...lmao..

[Death2494]

Watch, and STFU bro
http://www.gametrailers.com...
Everything you just said is now irrelevant.

[Handsome_Devil]

This is my only answer to you, Enjoy :D

[Godmars290]

No offense, but I don't think that you are "right there" with me.

Yes, if the 360 is capable of making games similar, or better, than some well noted PS3 exclusives like GOW3 or GT5, they either should have been made or be in the process of being made. There shouldn't be articles talking up abilities that it just hasn't shown. Especially this late in the game.

Its as stupid and asinine as some MS rep saying the 360 doesn't need BR - its too freaking late to introduce and would only cause major issues to all aspects of the brand. On the other hand the only reason why BR wouldn't be included in the 360's successor is the current display of pigheadedness.

Look at the two guys below your post, especially the brainiac with the essay. Its not enough that they like Gears or Halo, they have to be better than a PS3 title to the point that any PS3 title they mention is inferior if not horrible to the 360 game they mention.

God, this is just plain stupid.

[gamer2010]

See, that's your problem, you guys just claim the 360 exclusives aren't matching up to the PS3 exclusives and you think that makes it true.

I have played Gears of War 3 at PAX and it is every bit as good as Uncharted 2 or Killzone 3. In fact I thought it looked better than Uncharted 2 and at least as good as Killzone 3.
Here is a video http://www.youtube.com/watc... but there are lots of them.

And even though it is a multiplatform game, Crysis 2 running on the Xbox 360 at PAX looked as good or better than any PS3 exclusive. They weren't allowing people to take footage of Crysis 2 at PAX, so I don't think there are any videos from there, but I know there are some from gamescom of it running on the 360 if you look for them.

I am willing to bet that with Crytek's pedigree and talent that their Xbox 360 exclusive Project Kingdoms will look even better than Crysis 2 on the 360.

[commodore64]

@ outrageous

Really great post, dude.
Well said.

+1

[corneliuscrust]

But I agree with a lot of what outrageous said.

[Anon1974]

The entire that this generation of gaming would be "lost" without the 360 is misleading to start with. The 360 is still, like the Xbox before it, primarily a US games system. It's never been able to maintain a stable foothold anywhere else, and even in the US it's plays a distant second fiddle to the Wii. I hardly think this console generation would have been "lost" had it we not had a flood of US shooters, extra charges to play games as the developers intended them to be played - online, or millions of faulty consoles and a warranty scheme that trapped people in a cycle of dead console replaced by refurbished, dead console.

In fact, quite the opposite. You could probably more easily argue how this gaming generation would have been better off without the 360.

As for Sony "losing" billions on the PS3, I'd say that's money invested, and Sony themselves stated as of August last year the PS3 had been a profitable platform for some time. It takes money to make money. Losing money would be if you built a product but didn't test it and then had to spend over a billion on a band aid solution that never addressed the underlying problem. That's losing money.

You want to talk revisionist history? Gears of War launched before the PS3 was even available worldwide and while it was fun it proved to be the best game 360 gamers would see until, well, Gears of War 2 a couple of years later. And you think Gears was the first game to use the duck and cover system? Think again.

You compare Halo and Gears to Uncharted and Killzone, but you're missing the point. PS3 owners don't just buy one or two games in droves like 360 owners. While some PS3 owners enjoy shooters, others are more than happy to play games like Heavy Rain, or LittleBigPlanet. 360 gamers have excellent games like that (Alan Wake/Banjo) but won't touch them. You make it sound like it's a good thing that the 360 can move it's core franchises - it's not. Analysts called it way back in 2007 - the tendency of 360 gamers to only buy certain games speaks to a larger problem, that the 360 is only being bought by one demographic and will struggle in the long run. And struggle they have. Since they've had competition they've been outsold by both companies, with the exception a couple of quarters after massive price cuts they've never been able to maintain their sales growth, Microsoft themselves have been forced to cut 360 production by 40%, all the while claiming software and hardware revenue is falling and they even mentioned in their last couple of financial statements that 3rd party developer interest is falling. Crow about Halo all you want, it's a good game, but it doesn't magically make the 360 the better console.

If you have a shooter, you sell it on the 360. Anything else, take your games elsewhere. You might break out the numbers on shooters and act like it's some big deal, but consider this. In the US the PS3 has significantly fewer consoles sold, and yet US game company's like EA who sell most of their titles in the US report revenue from the 360 and PS3 are damn near neck and neck. How can that be if the 360 is moving all them shooters? The truth is you can go on and on about shooters to justify why the 360 is "da bestest", but the reality is that there's more to gaming then just first person shooters, and the console that plays to that will come out on top. Just look at the success and sales of Super Mario Bros. They walk all over Halo 3.

[nan0]

All you mention for PS games is killzone 1 for PS2 and MAG? Really? Gears is the best looking game this gen? Really?

You must be locked in a cellar somewhere with a very small access to games, and even less access to oxygen.

Uncharted 1-2, Killzone 2, MGS4 (face features alone) blow Gears out of the water in terms of graphics, storyline, Character depth, weapons etc. It isn't even funny.

I don't know what boulder you've been living under, but Uncharted 2 beat out all of the 360's games, including HALO OPDLC (over priced DLC).

The only reason halo became popular is because it was handed out with the systems and it was the only DECENT FPS xbox ever had until years later. It's sad that the best 360 game of last year was CODMW2, a multiplatform game. Now that's sad. Not to mention the plethora of good games the PS3 has.

LBP isn't revolutionizing? 360 fannypack boys were glad when MGS Rising came to the 360 as well, so what these games only gain value when they're released on the 360? Wow. Also, Dead Rising, Bioshock etc. have all crossed over to the PS3 as well. To be honest, the PS3 has a much better library atm than the 360. Not to mention plenty of nice Multiplats to fill up the time.

[Holeran]

Outrageous are you off your meds? You're becomeing quite delusional. Someone get him to the happy home where he can be with others more like himself. "they may even catch the mighty Wii" thats classic right there.

[electricshadow]

YAY for flamebait articles. 100 degrees and hasn't even been approved. Just enjoy the games made for your console.

[theonlylolking]

That does not make sense. It does not even have blu ray and it cant do any better graphics than gears.

Halo Reach has great graphics and big maps in story mode but it frame rate drops a lot. Rage does 60fps while using low res textures but open world.

PS3 has blu ray and still getting better graphics, great free online and uses openGL which is better than DirectX.

GT5 uses 1080p, hires textures and 60fps.

Just look at this vid!

http://www.gamersyde.com/st...

Dont take what I said wrong. I am NOT saying the 360 is bad.

[FunAndGun]

No

[Shoko]

Im tired of all these claims that AREN'T BACKED-UP by the games. People say this is stronger on the 360, that is stronger, but when it comes down to it, the games say otherwise.

[Tron_Rocks]

Yes, Yes it does.
More Stable, runs quieter cheaper
better titles
better looking Multi-platform games as well
HECKOFALOT better XBL over PSN in just about every way!

PS3 needs to really come down in price. But if MS thinks they are ever going to get 59.99 for XBL a year they are nut I don't care how much better it is than PSN

[wat634]

amen

[Rumor]

Go stand in the corner....
Better titles?.....really...runs quiter...really....cheaper?... ..last time I checked, they were the same price, only a HARDDRIVELESS SKU for the box. live better than ps3...really? Ur logic is no where above negative....

Here's an experiment...go on youtube, look up xbox top 5 lists, guaranteed you'll see all call of duties and halo and any other multiplat shooters. Now go on A ps3 top 15 list....all AAA exclusives

[Godmars290]

o_0

[Obama]

"Yes, Yes it does.
More Stable, runs quieter cheaper
better titles "

You just described the ps3 there? 360 runs quieter?? LOL

[Holeran]

My 360 sounds like a jet plane taxying down the runway.

[skyblue14213]

*cough*fanxbot*cough*

[n4gno]

Yeah, in your blind fangirl's dreams, perhaps.

[Death2494]

more stable? Really, bro!? Everyone I know has been through at least one xbox360. I've personally been through two. Sorry mate, you should really stop being a fanboy and just get both.

On topic: Gears 3 and Crysis2 prove that the 360 is very far from being dead. With that said, when you have games like GT5, Killzone3, and Infamous2, it's kinda hard to notice. I hope they release a red/black Xbox360 S collectors for Gears3.

[vhero]

More stable the 360?? The death rate says different... As for cheaper that is in the eye of the beholder.

360 is the most expensive console as lets be honest with ourselves 360 without live is crap so add on live for the lifespan of 360 which has say 4 years left at a guess?? thats a nice £200 on top of the the price minimum. The low price is a con to draw people in.

As for better titles again that is all about preference I think in this department both consoles have there strong points and I won't say which is better as some people prefer shooters over say.. platformers so the 360 would be a better choice. So Tron_Rocks less of the fanboyism and more of real comments please?

Oh one last thing you may be right about quieter with the new model though I cant compare that as don't have ps3 and 360 slim to compare myself.

[jessupj]

Actually, as long as XBL has virtually no dedicated servers it's always going to be inferiour to PSN.

I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic though

[corneliuscrust]

It's up to the devs. There are many games with dedicated servers on both XBL and PSN.

[gedapeleda]

Eggs Box owners and fanboys don't say anything bad about ps3 cuz n4g is overtaken by ps3 owners and fanboys.It's a fact.

[Stealth20k]

The next consoles wont be around for another 3-5 years so who cares

[Lombax]

Was the first thing that came to my mind, lol.

But as far as what the article is talking about. Show me 1 360 game that looks better than Uncharted.

[house]

they will keep looking and they wont find it they keep saying that the 360 "is as strong as the ps3" but where are the games to prove it i guess buying a studio rather than buying dlc was a better choice for sony its really starting to show in its games

hopefully m.s start learning this soon

[moparful99]

In the eyes of the 360 faithful sales=quality...

[Bell Boy]

If they find a game that looks better than Uncharted then the challenge will be to find another to match Uncharted 2..lol

[JBaby343]

I remember when everyone on this site said "show me the games that prove PS3 is more powerful than the 360". Now things have completely flipped and everyone says "show the games that prove 360 can keep up with the PS3."

Interesting times indeed.

[gamer2010]

Exactly. That's what some of these people don't seem to understand: things are not static. Just because the 360 had the best graphics for a while did not mean that the PS3 couldn't come along with games like Uncharted 2 and Killzone 3. Likewise, just because the PS3 has had the edge for a while now doesn't mean that the next round of 360 games won't surpass them.

As I already stated in my previous comments above there are some upcoming games that definitely change the graphical landscape on consoles.

1. Castlevania looks better than God of War 3. Many people that have seen it first hand agree with me.

2. Gears of War 3 at PAX looked better than Uncharted 2.

3. Crysis 2 playing on the 360 at PAX looked as good or better than Killzone 3.

4. Rage is another game that, while I haven't played it personally, many people that have seen it first hand say that it looks better than any console game out right now.

5. Project Kingdoms is being made by Crytek and I am sure that it will meet or exceed the graphical level set by Crysis 2 on the 360.

Not to mention that Gears of War 2, Alan Wake and Halo Reach already look better than 98% of the exclusives on the PS3. Just because the PS3 had the edge with a couple games is not as significant as some people think.

[edhe]

It's very political :)

Just swap the question about and you've succeeded in "converting" half your readers.

[theonlylolking]

@gmaer2010

Castlevania looks a like oblivion graphics with a lot of blur effects

Gears of war 3 looked way worse than Uncharted 2

Crysis 2 looked great but not better than killzone 3

People who say RAGE looks like the best game are probably id software fans

Project kingdoms will look no different than Crysis 2 because crytek said they maxed out the 360 with crysis 2. They said they maxe dout the PS3 with the game but we know thats not true since it does not even use MLAA!

Geow2, alan wake, and halo reach look better than Uncharted 2, killzone 2, killzone 3, granturismo 5, LBP2, MGS4, infamous 2, ratchet and clank a crack in time, and some others. Since those games look as good or greatly better than the 3 xbox games you listed that would mean that instead of it being 98% it would be less than 50%.

[Lombax]

"Not to mention that Gears of War 2, Alan Wake and Halo Reach already look better than 98% of the exclusives on the PS3."

What alternate reality these delusional bastards must live in...

[Socrates]

Gears of War 3 looks better than Uncharted 2. http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[bunfighterii]

yeah...no

[blahblah]

if you squint one eye and close the other one;)

[not joke anymore]
and about Gears 2? every screen so far i've seen so far is below mediocre in terms of games with good graphics.

[kws1065]

I will decide.

[All_4_One]

Uncharted 1, Uncharted 2, Heavy Rain, Killzone 2 and God of War 3 all remain unmatched by the 360. If you want to claim 360 has the "edge" you`re going to have to start providing me with evidence.

[Socrates]

Heavy Rain? Really? Alan Wake looks better than Heavy Rain.

[bunfighterii]

Yeah Heavy Rain should come off that list. It's good but not great.

[rakunado]

Tesselation won't give the xbox an edge, graphics can only do so much. Whether Microsoft gets an edge or not will be in the developers and their games. Xbox already had their chance with graphical superiority back in the first two years of the ps3 when it was totally getting dominated by xbox titles time and time again bar a few select ps3 titles. However the whole thing changed the moment developers realised to not just rely on the ps3 RSX graphics card.

The graphics card in the xbox was always better than the ps3, but it is the way the ps3 developers use the SPU's/Cell in relation to the RSX chip that changes what we actually see in the end. The rsx on its own was never as good as the xbox graphics card to begin with. If it was a contest of just using the power of the graphics cards the xbox would have won long ago, hence why all the old multiplats looked so bad in the ps3's early days.

[house]

the old muiltiplats looked so bad on the ps3 in the old days was because they would port from the 360 to the ps3 which really does not work

easy to program (360) to hard to program to (ps3) doesnt seem logical to me should be the other way around
and now that devs are learning that its showing when they port to the ps3 to the 360

edit: theres a disagree monkey going around here big time

[rakunado]

that is so true.

But isn't part of the multiplat process now used for ps3 to distribute the work load of the ps3 among the graphics card and the cell spu's rather than just the graphic card itself? Because I remember in the old days, the developers were having problems because all they tried doing was porting the 360 code over in turn just relying on the RSX. I could be wrong here. Please correct me if I am.

[house]

partly that is true but the rsx chip isnt much weaker than the 360s xeno chip but thanks to the cell it really doesn't matter to this point

and not to mention blu ray

[moparful99]

Well you all are in the same ball park.. Developers, in the early days, would develop on the 360 and port over.. But here's where they struggled.. Since the 360 uses 3 cores to code and the single core in the ps3 was similiar in design they would simply get the code up and running on the single core and then do some vague "optimizing" Essentially they were running the same code as the 360 on half the ram because the ps3 has split memory... But sony had their best first party stuidos collaborate on a software suite that would help devs understand how to split the code on the ps3 and fully utilize the architecture.. People love to point out the relatively weak performance of ps3 multiplats as a weakness of the console itself whenever it's just the developers not taking advantage of the ps3's strenghts if you will...

[JBaby343]

It's funny how just 2 years ago no one believed what you just said they just discredited the PS3 every chance they got but now it's common knowledge. Each system has its strengths. It's up to the devs to use them.

[jerethdagryphon]

very early games were running almost entirly off the ppu not even using spe's much if at all

[moparful99]

according to all the disagrees I have thats still an issue.. But there's an extensive comparisson that tecno buffallo did that does a much better job of explaining this then I could.. All I am saying is that if sony first party studios can get games like uncharted 2, god of war 3, heavy rain, and killzone 2 to look and run so fantastically then why can't anyone else? My explanation answers this question but I guess reasoning isn't a strength for alot of people on this site.....

[sdtarm]

cuz the 360 at the end cant support it and the DVD doesnt let it happen

[edhe]

Then add a second disc.

[sdtarm]

the audio and video would be compressed, it just doesnt let that happen and it is not cheap or comfortable for either devs or user to have several discs

[wicko]

The author forgets that PS3's cell gives it a much larger edge. There's a dutch interview (subtitled though) with Guerilla games about KZ2, talking about how they use the cell processor to help render the scene:

http://www.gamekings.tv/vid...

A really interesting interview, but if you don't feel like watching the whole thing, the part I'm talking about is 18 minutes in.

Basically they have the SPUs doing physics, sound, lighting, and particle systems. The 360 CPU is pretty much limited to sound and physics.

[emil1]

yep x360 has better graphics

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[Omega Zues]

You sly devil you.

[Neko_Mega]

So how is this a edge, if the ps3 has more room on a bluray and a bigger hard drive. And 6 cells to work with.

Lame news.

[edhe]

And it's still playing catchup.

[Roonie]

so how does sales help to make your exclusive games on 360 to look on par with uncharted 2/GOW3/KZ2-3??? ohh wait it doesn't do shit....

halo 3/reach sells more yet still looks trash compared to KZ2.

[Rageanitus]

and I see more value from the PS3..... xbox has gears and halo... gears is quite good... halo is quite overated.... but in the end Blu-ray is a huge edge over the box.

[rekof]

dead ,.. you should realize at least that about now ,..
all the blatant excuses are a buyers remorse syndrome,.. hell I stopped buying the games for it like 9 months ago and got it hacked,..

Keep supporting a company that don't give a rats shit about you,.. (well they all don't,.. but ms is jus in the other league)

have fun with Skittles !

[theonlylolking]

The console is not dead. Sure the games are not looking any better, or getting bigger, or getting much better but that does not mean its dead.

[CTU-Almeida]

Gears 3 will be better than all PS3-Exclusives together.

[BlackSharinganX]

thats what they said with gears 2 and look what happened

[skyblue14213]

Do you ever notice that these type of xbot articles that try to one-up the ps3 always try to tout something minuscule that really does not matter a whole lot or little with basically nothing to back it up or a bit vague on details(if any), or was found looking under a magnifying glass and is not noticeable to the naked eye. The xbots must be getting desperate since I have been seeing articles like these for a while now. Maybe they should start putting a magnifying glass with every new xbox 360, that way all the xbots can put up articles like these to make sony look real bad, "that will teach sony" LOL.

[Ilikegames76]

same as the PR people in MS. I tend to suspect, those articles are written by Aaron Greenberg's alter ego.

[hot-sauce]

short answer hell no

[Lookbehind]

Leave it to Bloodmask to get everybody riled up on a quiet sunday night.............

[house]

blood mask has always been like that even when he would comment

[ReBurn]

I know people who work in research and development at Microsoft. I know at least a dozen MVP's in different Microsoft technologies.

I've been designing and building software applications using Microsoft's .NET framework since the version 1.0 bits were in beta.

And I've been building software for Microsoft platforms since Visual C++ started the move from 16-bit to 32-bit. And I have degrees in computer science and business management.

I think that I'm qualified to say that this guy is full of crap. I love how college students with no real-world experience love to share expert opinions on stuff.

[tiamat5]

By all accounts RROD should have ripped apart Microsoft's reputation years ago. It showed how inferior their game system tech was compared to Sony's. But because they jumped to fix it somehow they were forgiven for it. Never understood that. If a restaurant poisoned me with bad food and they called an ambulance for me, would you go back and eat their food again because they got you to the hospital on time? So if you give me inferior junk that has a 30% chance of breaking why should I jump to buy it. No offense but that never made any sense to me. I mean since when did making well crafted games, being well built and having advanced tech in a gaming system become a problem?

[theonlylolking]

That is a great example.

[hoops]

So what was SOny's excuse with the PS1 and PS2 hardware issues that they nevr acknowledged or fixed untill they got sued?
I agree with your statement, but Sony was guilty of this with their first two consoles.

[DJMarty]

RROD hasn't been fixed by Microsoft. Microsoft solution was to remove the red lights from the new Slim consoles.

360 is still as unreliable as ever.

[SaberEdge]

No it isn't. Nobody I know that has the 360 S has had a single problem.

Where is your proof that it is unreliable. That's right, you don't have any proof. You are just spreading FUD.

Go back under your bridge.

[midgard229]

sure it has the edge.......noooot. gonna need more than gears and halo if they want more variety

[Clarence]

I have a 360 and I must say that Gears 2 was not impressive at all. The story sucked and lets not talk about the broken multiplayer games. Shields get stuck in the air, lag, hell Gears 1 was a whole lot better. As far as Sony loosing billions so did M$ on that RROD problem. Sony lost billions because they sold the PS3 at a lost. M$ lost billions because they made a piece of crap console with a high failure rate. The problem is people will accept the mediocracy that is M$, instead of demanding more from the company. Eventhough 360 failed many people they still went out and purchased 2,3,4,5 360's. My 360 got RROD after 2wks. 360 have the edge, that's funny. Now that HALO Reach is out there's only one game left that the 360 has and that's Gears. Sony is a powerhouse because they have so many 1st party studios unlike M$. The Edge goes to Sony.

[hoops]

The only people that went out and boiught multiple Xbox360's after it broke and still was under warrenty were morons.
Who in their right minds would spend $200+ for a new console when you could get a new one or fixed for free?
I always LOVED this ranting from people stating this.
Poll:
Who would go out and buy a new Xbox360 when it broke even though you could get a free one or repairded for free?
Most of the answers of "I WOULD" come from you know who........

[w00sta]

are we even at the final stretch yet?

[IQUITN4G]

Gamers outside of forums like this wont have the first clue about any of this tech stuff so these types of arguments are for absolutely nothing.For most gamers not clued up, all games will tend to look much the same, no matter the system with the exception of Wii.And we're the minority here

It will make even less difference next gen as well

[units]

first party exclusive genuinely push the system a lot further than 3rd parties and are lot more heavily funded not only that but these heavily scripted corridor shooters and hack n slash that you keep on going on about lack scale compared to the likes of halo reach are using plenty of smoke and mirrors

[Ilikegames76]

developers can and do make a wonderful game. Take MGS4 for example, they were done by a 3rd party developer, since it is exclusive to the PS3, they don't have to worry about making it equal on all the console.

[XI_-Minty-_IX]

I'm sorry, but I actually had to make an account to reply to your comment.

"noooo, blu-ray = more space so therefore more polygons which results in better graphics; simple as that."

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Blu-Ray isn't as big of a factor in good graphics as you think. You can stuff a Blu-Ray disc with as many polygons and ridiculously good-looking renders as you want, but if the hardware isn't powerful enough to render all of those polygons, then then game simply won't run. That's why you don't see any console games looking as good as CGI movies even from a few years ago. If your "more space = better graphics" logic was true, then PS2 games' graphics should be just as good as the Xbox 360's because they both utilize the DVD format. :-\

[cyclindk]

Watch out PS3, it's a computer science student!!!

Kinect, Wifi, tesselation oh my!

[etownone]

If the 360 does have the edge in the longrun, then give me one exclusive game that really impresses me. This year, I thought that game would have been Alan Wake or Reach.
Now, I don't know what to look forward to...... Kingdoms by Crytec perhaps?

Oh, Gears 3 .... always impresses. :-)

[limewax]

just to begin, Im a fanboy of NO console, I own them all and neither has a place in my heart as such. And my wii doesnt get played much, So not counting that in, But anyway, can confirm the ps3 is actually the quiet machine, the new 360 slim is a little bit quieter than the old model but not by much, also I had the elite before, Which actually ran cooler when playing installed games than the new model, so much for the improved cooling system, yet the ps3 slim DOES run cooler than its previous model.

Now Im going to really flare some people up here, but like I said im no fanboy but time for a halo blast, Im a fan of the games as such (not fanboy though) and to be honest I was almost as let down by reach as I was by 3, The world was a lot better but the story was pointless, besides the fact everybody already knew the ending I dont know anybodys name from reach having completed it, Other than a certain name from previous entries in the series of course. Tech wise it doesnt even scratch the surface of killzone 2 at all, Which might I add I absolutely hated due to the feel of controls. So im not battling for the ps3 here these is true opinion. Id really like somebody to actually point out what is so great about reach that I missed personally.

Like it or not, PS3 has the edge, tech wise and team wise, PS3 is now becoming the place to be if you want non-casual games, Ironic considering the fact that sony have always aimed at both markets and MS decided to pull a U-turn from one to the other, When they were backing core games they had the lead, Now they are no longer falling behind, they have fallen behind, The 360 was graphically peaked around the days of the original gears, Other than slight adjustments there has been no major quality inscrease. Sad then that DOA4 which was out release day still looks a lot better than a majority of xbox games today. Xbox had its moment but as always MS and their terrible PR and marketing strategies have cost them dearly, If you dont feel it yet, you will soon, because MS hasnt really saved much money to build the games you waiting to save the console, And its relying heavily on kinect which if it flops, could see MS out of the running for the next gen, Which is already looking bad for them seeing as they are sticking to dvd while the next wii goes blu-ray

Basically anybody who owns both consoles and keeps up with the gaming news will be getting a vivid picture of where the xbox is going to be heading, And at the end of the day its not worth caring about, If you want to tell me how drastically wrong I am feel free but dont expect a response unless its sensible and not fanboy rubbish. Just before you say no that could never happen to MS, remember that SEGA was once where it began for a lot of people, and now they only do games and pointless consoles nobody would ever buy, Not to mention MS has been dethroned by apple since the original release of the xbox and is no longer in the strong position it used to be in

Go on then, rip in, I know you want to lol

[limewax]

Sales of the consoles this generation speak nothing of the popularity of the xbox, they havent sold anywhere near as many as they claim. Well numbers they did, However its a deeper story than that considering that most xbox owners have bought 3 or more due to faults. I got mine shortly after release, Im now on xbox number 13.....No lie I swear that is the honest truth, Iv had more xboxs in the past 4 years than I have toes on my feet, Just not a good figure, Think about how many people were affected in a very similar way and you soon see how artificially inflated the xboxs sales are, They think they are near the wii but as for number of households theyre in its absolutely miles behind the wii and always will be

[jopeussr]

Argh! Who cares, as long as there are good games on both consoles!

[limewax]

Agreed but thats unfortunately xbox'x flaw for the next year, development wise its very much had its day, which sucks, if like me your sitting here wondering what else you can buy for it other than kinect and why the hell you would want it in the first place, Its gotten to that sad stage in a consoles life where you look to the old games for the best story and often technology too. To me personally it just feels early to be dropping mainstream production so much as nobody really knows how much more life the consoles have left in them as yet. The balance is definately there in old games though, In fact ps3 kind of missed out on the third party JRPG market this time which for me is more reason to keep the xbox. Love all my consoles just personally feel the xbox is actually ageing the worst rather than the wii

[lochdoun]

The power of DirectX. ;]

[gumgum99]

Without that big red ball, Microsoft doesn't stand a chance!

[Darrius Cole]

"Tesselation allows for much much higher poly counts without any hit in performance as it travels along the pipeline in low-poly form to bypass bandwidth limitations (basically the data is compressed to allow the higher poly models to get through bottlenecks at a faster pace)."

Nothing is free. If it gives a boost then, it cost something.

[shadyiswin]

Uncharted 1, Uncharted 2, Heavy Rain, Killzone 2 and God of War 3. Halo reach will outsell all those by years end or maybe next month.....combined. While fable 3 will handle gt5.
$ony doesn't do epic shooters, they never live up to hype.socom 4, killzone 3 and resistance 3 will be outsold by gears of war 3. Where are all these AAA ps3 titles?

[theonlylolking]

Gameplay just as important as graphics what would you rather play a FPS with ok gameplay but almost CGi graphics or awesome gameplay with super mario 64 graphics or great/good gameplay and good to awesome graphics?

Why is your title gameplay> graphics when all you talked about was sales?

[ManiacMansion]

The fanboys again.. with their stupid "we are far away from maximizing the PS3".

GT5 maxed out the pS3.. uncharted 2 maxed out the pS3.. and God of War 3 also... or why didnt GoW3 run with full HD at constant 60FPS?

The answer from the fanboys is always the same: They maximized the ENGINE.

Damn, the xbox360 Power is only used by MAX 30%... since every exclusive runs on Unreal ENgine 3.. and the UE3 Engine is MAXED OUT not the 360 hardware.. just look on RAGE or BRINK.

[tacosRcool]

The PC version owns both console versions. So tell me why do 360 developers decide to use the same unreal 3 engine rather than making their own to surpass in term of visuals the unreal 3 engine? By the way only some of the 360s exclusives use the unreal 3 engine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

So that leaves games like Halo Reach. If the 360 only uses 30% of its power, then why don't we see something that compares to any other PS3 exclusive?

[bustamove]

SHOW-THE-GAMES-FIRST.

Show me games on the 360 that can match up to Uncharted 2, God of War III or even Little Big Planet.

Not multiplatform games, but exclusive games.

And this is flamebait.;

[SaberEdge]

Come on, man, be serious. Little Big Planet? I love the game like crazy, but it's a 2.5D side scroller basically and the graphics are not doing anything out of the ordinary. Lots of multiplatform games and 360 exclusives have better graphics than LBP. Gears of War, Fable 2 and Halo Reach are all doing far more in terms of graphics than LBP.

[gypsygib]

If it does the games certainly don't show it. 360 has absolutely nothing that comes close graphically to PS3 exclusives and that coming from an owner of both systems.

Graphics aren't everything though but they do matter

[hoops]

I love this generation because it shows how hypocritical Xbox fanboys and Sony fanboys are...
Last generation graphics never mattered for SOny fanboys and MS fanboys said graphics matter.
Now this generation graphics matter for SOny fanboys and MS fanboys now say Graphics dont matter.
Hypcorisy at its finest.
What will be funny is if the graphic power changes hands again. What will the fanboys cry about then? LOL

[iliimaster]

the thing about the 360 is its a glitch fest online... its so much easyer to play witth your friends n meet up with them in any game type... but that all leads to boosting and glitching

[ashcroft]

Ya maybe for the xbox, PS3 has a long way before it hits it's final stretch, the 360's power is tapped, PS3 as you can see from exclusives has alot more juice left with 3d gaming...etc

A new xbox will come in 2 years, I give sony another 5 years,before the ps3 is in the final stretch. As usual once the ps4 hits, ps3 will still be supported by that time.

[tacosRcool]

Back in the days of the Nvidia 7000 series and ATI Radeon x1000 series, the better of the two companies of that series is Nvidia and so that's why the PS3 has better graphics. It doesn't matter how much is modified as the architecture is still the same. DX9 still looks good today but doesn't look as good compared to DX11

[hoops]

If you are basing GPU technology for these consoles alone, the Xbox360 wins that area easy. The RSX is 7800GTX and the Xbox360 GPU is one generation ahead of it.
The Xbox360 uses a more advanced GPU then the on e inside the PS3. And that GPU is made by ATI.
The PS3 edge is how the CELL CPU works in tandamn with the RSX. This is where the PS3 shines. However most 3rd party companies do not take the time or are willing to spend the extra money to do this.
This is the reason so many multi platform games look and run better on the Xbox360. It has nothing to do with the PS3...it's a cost and time factor.
You want killer looking games on the PS3? Spend the time and money on it like 1st party games.
3RD party companies will not do this unless they are funded by Sony

[TheNocturnus]

The 360 does have the staying power this generation. The thing that the 360 lacks is not graphics power or great games, it's a Blu ray player. If the 360 had a BR drive then no one would have bought the PS3. Sony had their run in the late 90's and early 2000's and maybe it's time they just stick to Televisions and Spiderman movies because they have lost the edge when making game consoles. I'm sure I will get a million disagrees but I don't care. I have owned a PS3 and can honestly say that I did not like it. I sold it to get more 360 games!

[SQWERCH]

The only games MS has is Halo and Gears the rest are all multiplatforms, quit lieing to yourself buddy.

[oguzsasi]

I only have PS3 and im waiting for 3.5 years to see,

Custom Soundtracks for all games,
Cross ame Chat for all games,
Voice Messaging for systems,
Ingame Pic/Vid Capture Feature for all games,
Custom Avatars ( Able to put your own pic ) for system,
Lobby Chat for all games,

They said Cell is soo powerfull!
And they said some of this features will slow down os!
So how can it be more powerfull if it cant do this features with a low hardware device like X360!?

How long do we have to wait for this features!?
I mean really! HOW LONG???

[jerethdagryphon]

thats the difference between a open dev enviroment and a closed one

the ps3 firmware supports custom soundtrack and ingame recording on all games hell id kill for incgame recording on some games

voice messaging and xgchat are possible but not implemented due to whatever reason

in the xbox your told to put in these functions
weather the game really needs it or not in some games achivments are really a waste of time
look at airbender game 6 achivments
on the xbox and ps3 i know as many people who clamour for features as those who couldnt care less

but i notice hawx 2 on 360 doesnt have ingame recoding...whys that

[cliffbo]

how would that be possible? how could the 360 have an edge? Kinect V MOVE (no contest), free online V $60 (no contest), Blu-ray games/movies (no contest) 3D games/movies (no contest) 25Gb+ exclusives V DVD exclusives (no contest) and it goes on.

this is the a really stupid question. the console that will stay the distance is the console brand that has always stayed the distance.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

More flamebait from Bitmob... Is anyone actually reporting on news these days?

[SQWERCH]

1) Sony has so much more exclusives and their exclusive blow Microsofts out of the water.
2) All the developers have switched to make ps3 lead console.
3) Bluray player
4) 3d
5) DO I HAVE TO REALLY KEEP GOING?

[bviperz]

It's all about the games not the hardware. I'll enjoy games while others can speculate on 'potential'.

[Sub-Zero85]

Really ? last time I checked the ps3 system is way more reliable system I can boldly say I guarantee every 360 owner is on their 2nd,3rd,or 4th XBOX 360 I am on my second ps3(ONLY BECAUSE I TRADED IN MY 20GB PS3 AND UPGRADED TO THE 120GB PS3) XBOX 360 is a crappy system with crappy exclusives excluding Gears of War and Halo ....... Ps3 has always been the far better system !!!!

[SaberEdge]

Nope, I am on my first 360 and I have had it since it came out. I love my PS3 and my 360. They both have great games.

[dionnysus]

that article hurt my brain. ouch.

[mayberry]

The ps3 uses "real time ray tracing" in some games i.e. gt5 etc..

[Organization XII]

ps3 is a polygon beast, while 360 is all about bump mapping ancient techniques, gears of war from a technical point of view is pure amateurish...

[maxcer]

lol @ the immature posts that infect this site daily

[Thoreau]

paying for xbl. i hate it. i just bought my xbl gold membership for halo reach and i don't even play the d@mn game that much. micro keeps taking money from the sheep and they don't even realize it. 4 years of xbl is 200 dollars. it is like you only rent the xbox experience.

[Trroy]

Tessellation is not as cool as you might think, especially when you have limited memory, and if you want to skin tessellated meshes to animated skeletons on the weak-sauce 360 CPU, or eat GPU pipes for skinning to support the HW tessellation.

There are good reasons its not commonly used on consoles. It's just not that cool unless you have scads of memory and a meaty CPU to animate with. The 360 has neither. The PS3, even, has the CPU, but not the memory. HW tessellation is a waste of time/money on consoles.

[alb1899]

As sells means nothing, graphics means nothing!

Some of us are gamers that just want to get fun and the best graphics games are not necessarily fun!

Ps3 Owners talk about what they can show..........graphics!
360 fans talk about what they can show ............games that sells a lot!

But is sells = fun........maybe not but if i have photos of a impressive graphic game and numbers of a best seller game........if i have to take one basing in this information i'll take the best seller!

[SpinalRemains138]

Why are we still calling it the Xbox 360?

Can we all agree that it's nothing more than the "waiting for the next Halo game 360" ?

While the Halo game is good, we cannot act as if the 360 makes all these great games. It doesn't. It has 2 major series and that's it. Let's stop pretending that 360 is this uber gaming box. It isn't. American kids use it to play Halo.

Ppl worldwide use the PS3 to play a variety of great games.
So no. The only edge the 360 has is the fact that it was the only HD console on the market for 14 months. If the 360 can ever play a game that can match what SONY exclusives do then we can discuss this.

[Organization XII]

they'll have dance central, i say they already won this gen..

[yamzilla]

why do people insist on claiming the consoles are "far from maxed"????

All AAA games released lately have been 720p or less with little to no anti aliasing.....and 20-30 frames per second

This leads a logical person to surmise that...hmmm... these things cannot do 1080p,60fps, and 8x anti aliasing.....

That makes me think that they just might be MAXED!!

how many frames per second would uncharted 2 run at on the ps3 at 1920x1080...with 4 to 8x antialiasing.. about 6fps

alan wake on 360 at 1920x1080...with 4 to 8x antialiasing... About 3fps

the xbox 360 and ps3 are graphically maxed....there might be a game where you like the art style better than uncharted 2 or gow3....but from a technical standpoint you have long since seen the pinicle of what they have to offer.

[Forklift]

Two things struck me while reading some of the comments in response to this article.

1. Unless n4g is home to hundreds of out-of-work computer science majors, the vast majority of those leaving agrees and disagrees can't possibly have an educated opinion about "tessalizing" and other high-falutin' graphics terminology.

2. While at first I shook my head ruefully at the many narrow-minded comments that pass for intelligent debate here, I then gazed upon the closet that is home to my twenty-some odd consoles and 1,000+ games and smiled at the fact that I have been enjoying great games for decades without worrying about what tessalizing is.