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Does the 360 Have an Edge Over the PS3 In the Final Stretch?

Bitmob: I'm a computer science major at a research University, and last week one of my professors gave a lecture about graphics. He works and does research with Microsoft from time to time and he actually helped them come up with the feature set for DirectX 11.

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nefertis2915d ago

It shouldn't matter who got the edge just enjoy the damn systems.

rroded2915d ago (Edited 2915d ago )

Maybe but as a gamer i want the best games... Specs dont mean nada still this seems a bit off.

"he actually helped them come up with the feature set for DirectX 11. One of those features is tesselation which is essentially a method to render subdivision surfaces"

Ok so is he saying the 360 can tesselate better than the ps3? So where are the games... right valves updated some of their games to do it but we just never knew? And by actually helped them do you mean he was on the ms payroll for the direct x11 project or just some teacher doing a ms funded school projects for fun and profit?

Joule2915d ago

How can Xbox have an edge in the final stretch if they can't even keep up with exclusives?

Motion2915d ago

Yeah, DirectX 11 can do some awesome stuff. Though, I hardly see how this is relevant to the 360, considering the hardware ONLY supports up to DirectX 9.

MrAwesome2915d ago

Whoever has the edge dosen't matter what matters is how the developers are taking advantage of the console to make great games, with the given effort even the Wii could be the best console for hardcore gamers to own but lately the console to own is the PS3 just look at the huge line-up of exclusives it has and games like UC2 and GoW3 are pushing console tech to new boundries so if the xbox has the better tech or not (probably not) developers first and third party aren't showing it.

Windex2915d ago

i mean seriously...

If you compare Xbox and PS3 graphics card, you will realize that PS3 graphics card actually have HIGHER general performance.

Its just that Xbox graphics card can peak higher with edram

but if you consider the fact that PS3 can take loads off GPU, PS3 graphics easily beat Xbox hands down. just look at God Of War 3, Uncharted 2 and we are still far from maximizing PS3.

Trebius2915d ago

I'd say the 360's lack of 1st party devs is its biggest flaw that everyone seems to just conveniently ignore.

They dont contribute anything, they just buy 3rd party timed exclusivity and throw money at devs.

Sony has more than 2 dozen studios and they continue to buy more studios as opposed to CLOSE them like M$.

They're the destroyers of talent in this inudstry.

OpenGL2915d ago

Sure the 360 GPU has support for tessellation, but it's not nearly powerful enough to properly implement it. Even the Radeon 5870, a GPU that is 8x as powerful struggles when using moderate levels of tessellation, so there's no way in hell the now 5 year old Xenos will somehow manage it in any meaningful way.

Fermi is the only GPU currently that can really handle tessellation, and it's 300W chip with over 3 billion transistors, more than 10x Xenos and the RSX.

DelbertGrady2915d ago

Why is the PS3 still in third place if it's as good as some of you claim?

UnwanteDreamz2915d ago (Edited 2915d ago )

What does sales position have to do with preformance? You mean the Wii is more powerful than an xbox?

Try again

PopEmUp2915d ago

is just one of those kindergarten kid who happen play with his daddy laptop

Windex2915d ago (Edited 2915d ago )

Actually, PS3 has been beating Xbox sales for 3 years before Xbox price cut/New model.

so PS3 is beating Xbox in terms of sales. and lets not forget that PS3 and xbox are not the same price.

if you find old model its 150 vs 300. and new model is 200 vs 300.

Lol @DelbertGrandy troll fail

jden282915d ago

Ok I've been saying this since I found out the same thing I'm also curentlyin school as a programmer and from what I've seen the x360 has been bieng held back bye Microsoft in the graphics department. ok , look at it this way in the begining developers were saying how easy it was to get a game up and running on the x360 because the hardware was using directx 9 with elements of 10 and beyond. Everyone talks about how the x360 is just like a pc " I don't believe this", but follow my logic. For those of us that actually game on a pc we've seen where we will use the same hardware but a game will have both direct x 10 and 11 support and you can see a huge visible difference... Its just that the capabilities that were always present were unlocked with the higher version of directx, and microsoft has just sent out new sdk's in april to allow developers to use this feature along with a host of other things that became available. Sadly some things are still not under developer control go read the force unleashed II interview.

Bottom line is the x360 has had this feature but developers didn't have access to it until april and it is a hardeware feature not just something its doing and we will see the results at next E3.

rockleex2915d ago (Edited 2915d ago )

When he realizes that the 360 GPU doesn't support DirectX11.

Have you noticed that the 360 nowadays is "just imagine the possibilities"?

Its no longer "look at what we can actually do!"

Encouraging a false sense of reality.

ProjectVulcan2915d ago (Edited 2915d ago )

360's tesselator is a small first generation unit. As such its not going to add in huge amounts of detail that people might have seen from all those direct X11 demos. Its like a reverse level of detail, so you add geometry as you get closer. Its not something you can just flick the switch on inside 360, it can be awkward to implement with 360's render pipeline. Developers mostly bypass it because they are aware it comes with drawbacks too.

Thing is, CELL SPEs are well suited to this sort of thing so used correctly its not an edge for 360. Bit like how RSX has a poor peak vertex fillrate but CELL is quite good at that. As long as you programme it well of course....

redfirm2915d ago

as a game developer, i can gaurantee you that neather the ps3 nor
xbox360 nor wii can handle 100 percent tesselation, it will burn
your systems.
i wish people knew what they where talking about. you can expect tesselation on the next gen consoles.

redfirm2915d ago

i wish some people at least knew what tesselation is before they
open their mouth.

Kaneda2914d ago

maybe xbox can be much more if it wasn't limited to DVD media. If it is on blu-ray. It could be much more for developers to work on it.

ThanatosDMC2914d ago

Yup agree. Let the games do the talking.

edgeofblade2914d ago

Look... we are never going to get a constructive argument if each side keeps spewing the same shallow dogma and snark.

Quite simply, none of you on either side are willing to give up petty arguments and start discussing like adults.

Maybe I'm expecting too much of you...

Organization XII2914d ago

ps3 is a polygon beast, while 360 is all about bump mapping ancient techniques, gears of war from a technical point of view is pure amateurish, and thats just an example, its nothing but a direct x9, 2004 based pc..

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Seijoru2915d ago

So far from what I've seen of exclusives, PS3 definitely still has the edge in graphics by a large amount.

Genesis52915d ago (Edited 2915d ago )

That's because they don't use the RSX for all graphics like this knucklehead thinks. They program a lot of it to the SPE's. Thats why games programed specifically for the PS3 look graphically better

ALFAxD_CENTAURO2915d ago (Edited 2915d ago )

Not to mention, Developers created the MLAA Tech for PS3, better than X4 Anti Aliasing using the Cell (Processor) Anti Aliasing instead of the Graphic Processor.

Like God of War 3.

2915d ago
ECM0NEY2915d ago

So then why does PS3 suffer from the worst jaggys ever?

Im not trolling I really want to know why the 360 has less jaggys when the PS3 has more powerful hardware.

Arnon2915d ago

Unless that's a direct shot from your game, those are bullshots. MLAA while nice, isn't a godsend of Anti-Aliasing. There are VERY few games with hardly any jaggies in them on the consoles.

I'd say parts of God of War 3 did it well, and Halo: Reach.

gamer20102915d ago

You PS3 fanboys always say that, but in reality there are only a couple of really great looking games on the PS3. Most PS3 exclusives look more average.

Uncharted 2, Killzone 3 and God of War 3. Those are really the only games that stand out on the PS3. And they still aren't as great as some of you claim.

Uncharted 2 looks amazing and was definitely the best looking console game for a while, but I have played Gears of War 3 at PAX and it looks better than Uncharted 2.

Killzone 3 also obviously looks outstanding, but after playing Crysis 2 on the 360 at PAX I would have to say Crysis 2 looks better in some ways.

God of War 3 was the best looking action/platformer, but personally I think the upcoming Castlevania game looks even more detailed.

raztad2915d ago (Edited 2915d ago )

@gamer2010

"You PS3 fanboys" <-Wrong way to start a case, trying to discredit the other person.

I notice dude, you are comparing actual playable games that every PS3 fan can go and buy, anytime, vs games that you only, and few others, supposedly have seen/played. Hard to counteract your argument full of promises but void of tangible facts.

The only thing I can say is, people who actually owns both consoles and enjoy gaming on both, say LoS is not close to GoW3 magnificence, and its not remotely close when you check its technical specs.

frostypants2915d ago

No, Turbine27. Disc space has NOTHING to do with the number of polygons that the system can push. At least not in any meaningful sense.

Sony3602914d ago

First party support.

We've not seen the 360s full potential yet as it doesn't have the same first party developers. Just like how the Ps3 fans keep harping on about it's "potential".

Sony3602914d ago (Edited 2914d ago )

First party support.

We've not seen the 360s full potential yet as it doesn't have the same first party developers. Still, it's nice to see that the 360 still has AAA titles regardless.

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Persistantthug2915d ago (Edited 2915d ago )

And show me instead.

Spawn-KING2915d ago

Nope.. Main reason, PS3 has BLU Ray . To be a complete system you need BLU Ray .

edhe2915d ago

What for? Enforce mandatory installs? slow down loading? Encourage hours and hours of pointless non-interactive tripe story cut scenes that should be stamped out from gaming?

k.

A BD drive would be decent now they're faster, but not at 1x.

nan02915d ago

How about because in sales, Blu Ray has been rising.

What do you suggest? never to take it to the next level? Make we should of left it at the cartridges for the NES. Atleast those won't snap in half like discs right?

We need blu ray beacuse developers who love to charge over priced DLC that should of been included in the game often use the excuse (not enough room on the disc) and look, who has the small dic? The 360 with it's 9GB disc. While the PS3 can have 50GBs loaded on a disc no problem.

Fallout 3 GOTY is a great example of this, all of it is on one disc, whil the 360 needs multiple discs.

That's just one reason.

frostypants2915d ago

"hours and hours of pointless non-interactive tripe story cut scenes that should be stamped out from gaming?"

*cough*MASS EFFECT*cough*

edhe2914d ago

Mass effect has very little cut-scene action. You get combat, conversation and exploration. I doubt there's more than 10 mins in me1 OR me2. You sir have failed your argument.

Not much point in having prerendered scenes when your character is customised.

Blacktric2913d ago

@edhe

Meh. Leave those 5 year old trolls alone. It doesn't worth it believe me. So, frostypants, Mass Effect has tons of cutscenes eh? LMAO! Go play the game first.

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lowcarb2915d ago

Right now PS3 has the exclusive edge no doubt while 360 holds the multiplat. Gears 3 will hopefully show 360 has some major punch left in it but as far as the stretch goes I need to see some exclusive games 1st. I have no doubt 360 can overcome PS3 graphically. MS needs the right developers to do it and hopefully Crytek and Epic can show us what we need.

UnwanteDreamz2915d ago

"tackedRight now PS3 has the exclusive edge no doubt while 360 holds the multiplat"

When multiplatform games start looking as good as PS3 exclusives then it will be worth mentioning IMO.

lowcarb2915d ago

Red Dead is a really good looking game even better than most PS3 exclusives plus it's open world. Rage (not saying it will look better on 360)is also looking good and surely Crysis2 will.

Ilikegames762915d ago

If you say Red Dead looks better than most PS3 exclusive, you need to have your eyes check or you need to take off your fanboy goggles.

gamer20102915d ago

Red Dead Redemption (on the 360 at least) does look better than most PS3 exclusives. Only a couple exclusives like Uncharted 2, Killzone 3 and God of War 3 look better. RDR has more advanced graphics than lots of PS3 exclusives like MAG, LBP, Resistance 2, Demon's Souls, Warhawk, Ratchet & Clank and so on. If you think otherwise it is YOU who needs to get your eyes checked.

Narutone662915d ago

say that Red Dead looks better than almost all PS3 exclusive, since you only have 360 and are always trolling the PS3 thread.

frostypants2915d ago

Let's go down your list:

Uncharted - No
Uncharted 2 - No
GoW 3 - No
Demons Souls - Maybe
MAG - Yes
LBP - No (kind of tough to compare though)
Resistance 2 - No
Demon's Souls - Maybe
Warhawk - Yes (but Warhawk is OLD)
Ratchet & Clank - You're on crack

Sony3602914d ago

So all of them looking better on the 360 isn't worth mentioning?

Convenient.

Oh wait a second, alot of them actually do look as good. That's if you want to use the "graphics are the only thing that matter" argument.

IcarusOne2914d ago

It's so lame how the Sony camp falls back on graphics every time. By this reasoning, Michael Bay is a better filmmaker than the Coen brothers because he uses more CG and flashier colors.

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pixelsword2915d ago (Edited 2915d ago )

The article is stating that the 360 could have an edge because " From what I've read, tesselation is possible on the PS3, but the RSX chipset isn't well-suited to dealing with the massive poly counts that tesselation creates. This has me wondering if the 360 might be able to compete with or even better the PS3 as developers start to take advantage of this feature. Tesselation allows for much much higher poly counts without any hit in performance as it travels along the pipeline in low-poly form to bypass bandwidth limitations (basically the data is compressed to allow the higher poly models to get through bottlenecks at a faster pace) "

The Cell is the big number cruncher for the PS3, not the RSX. Devs who run too much through the RSX you'll get screen tearing. If you run everything through the RSX at a peak point of activity will get a lot of screen tearing and possibly slowdown.

From what I understand, the RSX is good for environments (or graphics processor... vertex program?), the cell is good for populating it (poly count... SPU), and the EIB coordinates everything (still not entirely clear on the EIB myself).

I'm a novice, so take what I just said with a grain of salt, but I've been doing a lot of reading though.

jden282915d ago

You are correct tesselation is possible on ps3 so are nurbs the problem is it's not a feature of the hardware itself therefore it doesn't perform it as well as it would if it had been a built in function. "Programmers' will tell you that no matter how good you write your code calling the built in functions and classes are always easier to use and faster...So it will more than likely be better implemented on the x360 now that the software will support the hardware in this area.

frostypants2915d ago

jden, just because the software supports it, does NOT mean the hardware will be able to pull it off on a large scale without dragging performance into the mud.

The 360 is pretty much maxed out at this point. Employing yet another graphical feature is just going to slow stuff down.

You can't add more water to a full bucket without draining some first. So to pull this off, they'll have to REMOVE something else from these games to make this work well.

pixelsword2912d ago

@ jden:

Time will tell, but already the 360 was supposed to be more powerful *and* easier to program, so it's power should have been evident already.

vhero2915d ago

It says 360 can do it and ps3 can do it but ps3 might not be able to handle it? It doesn't say 360 can handle it though? I'm sure if it could handle it then it would have had Tessellation by now in it's games. So the whole article is pointless. The technology is possible on BOTH consoles but both cannot handle it on big games without a big hit on resources so we will never see this technology this gen anyways.

gtamike2915d ago

The Cell has the edge over 360

JsonHenry2915d ago

Tessalation is AWESOME!

But if the 360 can do it so well- where are the games? Because this kinda hardware accelerated stuff really makes a difference in my PC games.

I just figured if the 360 can do something so much better and better looking than the PS3 then why hasn't MS forced one of their exclusives to use it????

likedamaster2915d ago

"Apparently Microsoft has been working closely with Valve on this, and they've actually implemented it in some of their older games."

In other words, Orange Box.

avengers19782915d ago

Final stretch for the 360 maybe, which doesn't have alot of years left. The PS3 will still be going strong in 5 years. I would say since even the newest 360 games don't compare with Uncharted, Infamous, God of War 3, or Heavy Rain. That the edge is the PS3 since the games are still improving on that system. While on the 360 the games are the same with little to no improvement as the were in 2007. Kinect will not add much more to the 360's life span.

avengers19782914d ago

These are just bots disagreeing with no reasoning because they have none. Anything they have to say about this subject is either completely made up by them, or just lies they've heard.

Strikepackage Bravo2915d ago

360 has always had a graphical edge over PS3, PS3 has too many bottle necks.

There have been several technical write ups that showed this.

The problem is everyone is out to make a quick buck on 360 and no one invests the time and money to make games look better than Uncharted 2 on 360. The rest of the PS3 exclusives are graphically overrated.

Its kinda obvious when you think about it. Its better to lead on PS3 and port to 360 because 360 can easily handle anything you code on PS3, yet PS3 cannot easily handle anything you code on 360. That proves PS3 is weaker, it should be common sense.

cyborg69712915d ago

Nothing you have said proves the ps3 is weaker. Prove your lame duck theory with links. And why do you 360 fanbois have so many bubbles? Your a huge troll that proves this new bubble system is bs.

frostypants2915d ago (Edited 2915d ago )

You have no clue what you're talking about...

What "bottlenecks"? Let's hear it.

ZombieAutopsy2915d ago

"Its kinda obvious when you think about it. Its better to lead on PS3 and port to 360 because 360 can easily handle anything you code on PS3, yet PS3 cannot easily handle anything you code on 360. That proves PS3 is weaker, it should be common sense."

No it just ports over easier, when programming for the Ps3 you have to code i guess you could say more diversely splitting things off because of how the CELL and RSX interact. Maybe the 360 could handle games like Uc2 and Kz2 but none of us will know until it happens.

raztad2914d ago (Edited 2914d ago )

I dont think the xbox is capable of replicating a game like KZ2, with all its post-processing, deferred lightning, particle effects, high polygon count, physics, and everything v-synced.

The only shooter that attempt something similar is Vanquish and game is sub-HD, being the PS3 version the only one triple buffered.

The gap is meant to increase when KZ3 launches. Game is gonna have a much higher Field of View, much bigger environments, much better textures and smoother quality image thanks to MLAA. Dont expect Crysis 2 to match it.

The xbox has an unified pool of memory + edram that allow developers to use a more "lazy" coding structure and make the console a lot easier to program for. Xenon is a more advance gpu that RSX, but the a proper usage of Cell totally makes up for that, and gives an important edge to the PS3 when handling cpu related stuff, as I mentioned above.

ozps32914d ago

What a [email protected] Would expect nothing less from an xbutt

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bustamove2915d ago

Play games, not sales. Maybe you should try that sometime.

DigitalAnalog2915d ago (Edited 2915d ago )

MLAA tech.. in detail

http://img715.imageshack.us...

Oh, and don't cry "bullshot". Reference from Eurogamer here: (at 300% zoom, the Jaggies are apparent) Too bad 360 fanboys don't have Superman's vision.

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

-End statement

TechnicalBS2915d ago (Edited 2915d ago )

From a developers perspective, the 360 is a lot easier to develope. Problem is, the DVD format the X360 supports lacks memory. Both consoles have their own issues specifically for developers themselves.

Technically, the PS3 is more powerful but I don't care. Both consoles produce beautiful graphics regardless if the game was made for both consoles.

Christopher2915d ago

Microsoft definitely has an edge over Sony in the long run, but it's not a technical edge. That edge is money and how they use it for marketing.

In the end, gamers are very happy with the results of the key software titles on both platforms and they won't stop being happy with them any time soon. What matters now is who sells their hardware the best and maintains the higher software sales at the same time.

jjank112914d ago

Well, actually it should matter because competition is good for any industry. Sony took a risk to begin this generation and they won out with Blu-ray and now they are finally going cash positive on console sales. As for M$, they obviously have the edge with their Live platform and getting their console out sooner. But at the end, I have all the systems so I enjoy all the systems but as I stated before competition is good. I hope that the rumoured new consoles in 2012 is just that, I'd love to see this generation last another 3 to 5 years.

Hallmark Moment2914d ago (Edited 2914d ago )

We'll see games get impressive on the 360 as top developers start pushing the 360 more instead of pumping out games with average multi platform engines. The 360 is more powerful proven by multi platform games being superior on the 360. Sony has talented devs making PS3 exclusives with game engines that push consoles more, it has nothing to do with PS3 being supposedly more powerful. This is why devs like Ninja Theory and others are able to make superior products on the 360 when they develop games for both consoles.

I wonder what PS3 exclusives would look like if they were made for the 360?