Kinect for Xbox Demos in Tokyo, We Talk with a Skeptical Expert

All eyes were on Microsoft at the Tokyo Game Show at Makuhari Messe this weekend, as the company was featuring the new Kinect for Xbox motion controller system, formerly known as Project Natal. The Xbox booth occupied a mammoth chunk of real estate on the show floor, with multiple demonstration areas set up to give Tokyo a look at this fancy new toy.

So what do the experts think? When Gizmag spoke to renowned sensor technology specialist Professor Masatoshi Ishikawa of Tokyo University, he expressed great skepticism about a system with such a slow camera, saying that 60 Hz is not fast enough to capture a fast kicking motion.

[TheOldOne]

kinect=fail

the expert said it

@units
'renowned sensor technology specialist Professor Masatoshi Ishikawa of Tokyo University'
he is more than just "some random person"

[units]

i think we should let digital foundry to shed some light on the final code

@TheOldOne i missed that part but i still reckon we should wait and see

[Carlos_Irwin_Estevez]

Do u even know who the digital foundry is!? Its a guy who used to work on a magazine called Mean Machines, he got fired and started taking screenshots of games.

He's about as much an authority on gaming technology as I am on shaving.

[btk]

His screen capturing tech is quite good. When you can do the same - then mouth off at him.

[number47]

Honest to god.. a miracle that Kinect is Demo'd somewhere and actually works???

Its been "wait and see' since Milo & Natal's fake staged presentations.

Hilarious.. he said he and his team already did this in 2002 better.. lol.

Edit: And they've shown more accurate gameplay with a webcam than Kinect ever has.

wow

[YoshiMeetsU]

Have you demo'd it live?? I have and it works so it must be some voodoo magic they are using. I've demo'd both Ricochet and River Rafting and it read every kick and jump I did.

Are you really talking about that Atari 2600 looking game? Yeah, I bet Kinect would be great if you made a Vector game with it..

No disrespect to the professor but has he tried it or is he just basing it off of his COMPETING patent? Does this guy know all the in's and out's of the hardware and software?? Hardware, maybe, but not the software.

MS has talked about rolling demo's into all the Best Buys so everyone can get a chance to actually demo it before they buy it. It's not like you have to go into the purchase blind.

[Triella]

Well he obviously knows what he's talking about, even Sony with the Eyetoy knew that you had to have a camera running at least at 60 fps to accurately track fast motion. And don't forget PrimeSens motion camera was tracking at 60fps too before MS downgraded it to cut corners.

[8-bit]

The PSeye can do 120 frames per second max, usually around 60 in most games. Kinect can do 30 frames per second. FACT

[Bigpappy]

Kinect camera can work at 60 FPS. It is the same camera used by primesense. Even the professor knows this.

You can always tell a Fanboy who has N4G as the only scource of news. Do a bit of research before labling RUMORS as facts.

Here are the facts:
http://www.primesense.com/?...

[number47]

Waiting for what still stands.

All you can come back with is that you tried rafting and another boring webcam game, which is all they've shown not working. Sure, for some reason its working perfectly *wherever* you are, but no video of it exists online without it failing hilariously.

Graphics aren't everything Yoshi, jokingly, webcam tech's been out, and is working better than natals tech-demo's ever have been. I'd be shocked if Kinect could even pull off that atari game at 30fps.

Yeah, you go ahead and argue with a professor, and engineers that say minimum is 60fps... ill watch and laugh even harder.

MS's has talked about a lot, but has shown absolutely nothing.

Microsoft themselves spec the camera at 30 fps guys. Its not the same tech as it was.

Kinects failure is the most amazing disaster I've seen in gaming since the Activator, or Powerglove. Its just non-working to explore new ways to game. Since its new ways are already done.

-----------

Data Streams
320x240 16-bit depth @ 30 frames/sec
640x480 32-bit [email protected] 30 frames/sec
16-bit audio @ 16 kHz

anything else? Or does some dude on n4g know more than Microsoft does about their own products?

[8-bit]

@bigpappy Where does it say that it's kinect that they are referring to? Seems to me like it is similar but what you showed me doesn't say that it is kinect.

[niceguywii60]

We'll wait for the games I'm not going to buy into a traditionally resistant region that are very proud of their Japanese gaming brands. Clearly there is a group of people not happy the Japanese loved Kinect at TGS hence the lack of reporting yet the increased hating.

[number47]

And know for a fact no demo of kinect has worked as advertised.

You know for a fact there are no Kinect games as of TODAY that show off the hardware..

You're waiting for nothing. This is amazing, I'd say the first time in gaming history. Theres literally no substance behind Kinect/Natal. Outside of "waiting" for something that claimed to be able to revolutionize but hasn't shown anything at all.

LOL, so what is it.. the Japanese are resistant to non-japanese things.. or they LOVE(Microsoft Sponsored party) Kinect?

Such nonsense.

[mrv321]

And yet APPLE and AMERICAN company is SELLING well in Japan. Strange that.

Maybe Japan likes quality products that don't just provide shooters.... just saying.

[Trroy]

Japan likes apples. Just sayin'.

Fujis are in season right now, actually.

Seriously, though, there is some truth the "Japan doesn't like foreign goods" quips. Japanese youth doesn't mind foreign stuff so much, but older generations of Japanese folks -- namely the ones in charge of purchasing for retail chains, in this case -- are not so hip on foreign stuff.

Japan has a long, long history of national pride interfering with their foreign relations, from politics all the way down to personal matters. Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[morganfell]

number47 you are wasting your time.

Check post histories. They explain a great deal concerning why people ignore the obvious.

[DatNJDom81]

says this is revolutionary (as well as many "media" people) and the japansese professor had this in 2002 running @ 1000 fps. So much for revolutionary....... LMAO!

Disagrees? Really? If u see the video he has it running and it looks like its WAY more responsive than kinect. Ya sheep gotta stop eating the bullshit m$ serves you.

[YoshiMeetsU]

Do you know the distance between a prototype and a working commercial product??

It is a LONG way. Demoing a game my Razer cell phone can play and brag about 1000fps is one thing but having a full fledged working game on it is another.

I wonder if his version will be $150. Anyone have a release date for his super magical 1000fps tracking system?? No.. Didn't think so.

[DatNJDom81]

Well downgrade is an understatement. but hey if ur willing to pay 150 or watever the price is for a camera that isnt even gonna work as promised then more power to you i guess. I really noticed something this generation about a large number of gamers. they settle for faulty hardware. this is showing companies that they can release half assed shit and the majority of gamers will eat it all up. This gen will be called the stuck on stupid generation. we got people paying for online. People buying half assed gimped games. thats how 360, activision make their profits. They arent even trying anything new. They are just saying lets rehash the same crap over and over, these idiots will buy it. Dont be surprised if either company (m$, activi$ion, EA, ubi, Sony) starts asking for subscriptions per game. I wonder how many rocks will pay for modern warfare 3. Quite a few i predict.

And by the way, "Do you know the distance between a prototype and a working commercial product??" it's difference not distance. Im not sure if English is your first language or not, but just in case it isn't, I wanted to correct you so now you know. If it is your first language then damn son you need help.

[tinybigman]

if an expert told them the skinny on this then i'm inclined to believe him. maybe M$ should of gotten him to do this project instead of sunglasses boy.

[units]

shame those girls dont come bundled with kinect

[cpt_kaos]

least those girls wont lag if we took one home. ;)

[Why o why]

and then fall asleep;)

[GamerPS360]

This is just wrong direction on gaming. Both move and kinect is utter crap. I guess, I have to just stick with PC.

[Close_Second]

...but no one is forcing Move/Kinect on anyone. They are motion control alternatives. And to be honest I love the Move and so do my kids and it certainly offers something that PC gaming does not have.

[DigitalRaptor]

Believe me, Microsoft will be forcing this thing on everyone come November 4th. "It's the future"! They will say.

But that's clearly not the case.

There's nothing I hate more than the spreading of lies and misinformation to others.

[fight4love]

Japanese guy confirmed lag basically

[plb]

Countless videos have already demonstrated the lag so it's not really anything new except some Japanese guy confirming it.

[ULTIMATE_REVENGE]

That Japanese Professor bashed Kinect lol! He even told Microsoft it's too slow and they just ignored him, if only they listened.

Personally I think Sony should employ Professor Masatoshi Ishikawa and put him on board their R&D team to help develop the PS-Moves & PS-Eyes successors.

[Anonagrog]

In all honesty, this guy may be an 'expert', but i'm pretty sure MS have their fair share of 'experts' that have been working on the R&D on Kinect for years too.

I'm going to reserve judgement on Kinect until it's actually released to global criticism or praise.

[ULTIMATE_REVENGE]

The Professor talking in that video isn't just some expert, he's developed the worlds fastest camera tracking system, the worlds fastest smart laser, the worlds fastest robot hand, fastest scanning device etc etc.

He's motion tracking system for gaming and for PC use (not seen in the video) is generations ahead of anything we have today. Do some research before you blab crap out of your mouth, he told MS Kinect is too slow to do Body detection alone, but they just ignored such high ranked professor.

It just goes to show how arrogant really are, he tried to point them in the right direction but they didn't listen.

[jetlian]

not true given there is no direction. He really isn't the right person based on your post!!! FASTEST THIS fastest that. kinect cost 150 right now if he had control it would be over 1500 dollars.

He works with million dollar equipment!! thats not feesable for mass consumption. thats like the military saying MW2 night vision sucks compared to what they use. duh

[ULTIMATE_REVENGE]

I think you fail to understand what his research is for.

[jetlian]

It tracks motion up to a point. Which is all your going to get with 150 dollars today. It doesn't have to be perfect. Wii wasn't perfect and motion plus still isn't. Move isn't even perfect!! that black and white fighting game still isn't 1 to 1

[btk]

"saying that 60 Hz is not fast enough to capture a fast kicking motion."
Worse than that. Kinect is 30Hz

[Trroy]

The disagrees to btk's statement are wrong. btk has it right.

The depth camera, the device responsible for capturing skeletal data, runs at 320x240, and at 30 Hz. The color camera is 640x480, and has the potential to run at 60 Hz... but games using Kinect are limited to the 30 Hz sample rate of the depth camera, for skeletal data.

It's sad that anyone would disagree with facts about a device which they are presumably in support of. Doesn't take much effort to look it up.

[ALFAxD_CENTAURO]

Another specs from PS Eye and Kinect:
http://static.myce.com/imag...

[Sitris]

I have the PS eye and the camera has a perfect range of vision for my relatively small room, and seeing how I am 6 foot 7 (yeah i'm big) I can't use kinect in my living room. When i went and tried using kinect a local showing, i was not able to cause the camera couldnt read me properly and the assistant told me step further away, i did so. When i got to the point where the camera could see me properly, i was like 4m away! Plus cause i was so far away, the camera barely even recognised me.

I have Move in my hand right now, i can have the camera almost anywhere, granted my head is damn close, but it is VERY playable, not once playing sports champion has it cut out.

[Apocalypse Shadow]

go look....

[Imperator]

So why the hell is Kinect priced so high? I can get a PSeye for like 30 bucks and it can do as much as Kinect. Anyone who actually pays $150 for this crap is just dumb.

[btk]

@Sitris
I am 6 foot 3. Not as big as you - but yes - Move and PS Eye and EyeToyworked well for me.

[beardpapa]

you see that woman playing pac man? that can be a flash game. You guys seriously want your core games to become like that?

Body motion control is a good thing but gaming on the ipad/phone isn't? Ipad/phone doesn't have buttons? Well at least it 'has' buttons. Just not tactile ones. Trust me. GTA on iOS works.

You want core games? Stick with the trusty controller. Body motion control gaming will be for the casuals and it'll stay that way. Otherwise if on-rails gaming is your thing, then go ahead. Everything else is smoke and mirrors.

We didn't go from Atari basic control 4-direction movement + one button or Pac-man arcade scroll ball to complex multi-directional analog sticks + analog triggers + 6 digital buttons just to go back to basic controls and call that a revolution.

[Bigpappy]

How about a link?

[TheObserver]

Here you go again BigPappy, defending Kinect tooth and nail. Why don't you look it up for yourself instead of letting MS and other people spoon feed it to you? I thought you have 2 kids.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=kinect...

http://www.engadget.com/201...

Do I have to do that for PSeye too?

[btk]

Bigpappy = willful self-imposed ignorance.

[mcstorm]

Well rather than go off what this site is saying every 2 mins I'm going to wait for kinect to come out and try it to see if its all cracked up to ne if not then I won't get it just the same as move and as I did with the Wii.

[hard joe]

do we really need an expert to confirm this?
i mean it's very obvious

[BillOreilly]

i always was interested in kinect for my girl and little cousins but after tgs im acually interested for me. That star fox like vid would be great on kinect so i have high hope for the panzer dragoon type game. Similar conceps. Steel batallion could be epic or an epic fail depending on how they handle controlls. Wait and see. I really like how all the games are built for it because it causes dev to be creative and invent new experiences. I will decide after i see gameplay.