Google's 'Don't Be Evil' Mantra is 'Bullshit,' Adobe Is Lazy: Apple's Steve Jobs

After a big public announcement of the sort Apple had this week for the iPad CEO Steve Jobs often takes time in the day or two afterwards to have a Town Hall at One Infinite Loop, making himself available for questions from employees bold enough to stand up and take one right between the eyes.

On Google: We did not enter the search business, Jobs said. They entered the phone business. Make no mistake they want to kill the iPhone. We won't let them, he says. Someone else asks something on a different topic, but there's no getting Jobs off this rant. I want to go back to that other question first and say one more thing, he says. This don't be evil mantra: "It's bullshit." Audience roars.

[rawrockkillz]

Adobe lazy? Hahaha. You sir are a silly person.

[toaster]

There's a reason Apple won't use Adobe: because it is crap. There are alternatives like HTML5. Steve Jobs did the world a favor by not putting Adobe flash on the iPad.

Flash is too slow. Anything that uses flash you will see long load times. Some websites use Flash extensively and you'll notice it takes a long ass time to load. Most of the time it's an ad anyways.

[Foxgod]

Ofcourse flash loads slower then regular websites, thats because it makes uses of heavy elements that fill a webpage with loads of eyecandy.

And html5 is not an alternative to Flash, Flash i used on top of HTML5, One of the more used alternatives to flash is Microsofts Silverlight.

HTML5 just aims to use less plugins, i doubt it will go entirely without.

[rroded]

looks like u got jobs scared

[dirthurts]

Does apple even use HTML5 yet?

[sikbeta]

@toaster

Well, obviously Flash $ucks Hard, don't tell me that when Ubuntu don't have a Proper Flash Plug-in and make a Dual-Core run at 100% like if I'm converting an HD Video lol, but everything else that Adobe is not BAD, actually IMO is GOOD

[toaster]

lol It's sad that FarmVille completely maxes out a dual core when most heavy graphics games don't. Flash is good in small quantities but when webpages are overloaded with Flash or primarily use Flash then it could be a big pain. Flash is like a monster. If you give it 2 cores it'll eat up both. If you give it 4 it will still use all of them completely.

To be honest, Flash is pretty cool when used correctly. But most of the time it isn't.

@ sikbeta
I think the only Linux browser that supports Adobe Flash is SeaMonkey.. lol. That's sad.

[baum]

As soon as there is a phone that gets all the functionality of an iphone includding apps and is an open system (probably google's) I'm dumping my iphone. Apple is a disgrace to tech, putting style over substance in their overpriced products. Google is the future, not Apple or Microsoft.

[JsonHenry]

I did not know that Flash was so hard on CPUs, especially not since it can know be hardware accelerated by your GPU if you have the latest FLASH installed.

But then again, I don't really care one way or the other. Just video. And there will always be a video player available and I don't care which one it is.

However, on topic, Steve Jobs is right. Google is the same as any other company with a bottom line and they are out for themselves and shareholders only.

[Nihilism]

You do realise that flash is now accelerated by GPUs whereas it used to be a cpu only app. Nvidia is paving the way...

[PopEmUp]

I hate to say this, but flash is the reason why such application like google chrome get crash when running it

[sikbeta]

@toaster

lol making a post from FOXKEH FIREFOX 3.0.17, with FLASHBLOCK active

FOXKEH is your Friend:

http://jceb.linuxmerida.org...

[Christopher]

It's kind of obvious why Flash isn't on iPad/iTouch/iPhone -- they want flash games to be converted to apps rather than accessible for free via a browser or even a separate flash viewer app. Now, there are issues with certain Flash applications could cause a browser crash, but I could say the exact same thing about iPhone apps.

HTML5 is not a replacement for Flash, so his statement as such is just ridiculous.

His statement towards Google is just way overblown, he's already acting like a General on the battlefield: "Google can't take our freedom from us! We will free those they have been abused by them!"

[Major_Tom]

Wow you guys are really naive or just inherently ignorant the reason for all this flash bruha is licensing fees for flash and that you wouldn't need to pay for apps or use the apps at all if you could just use them for free online using the browser.

It's essentially selling a jailbroken itouch or iphone and that's countering their own business model.

Serious LOL's at all the people who think it has anything to do with battery life lol.

HTML5 is still a long way off, and half of the internet is flash so you think magic will occur in the empty space between html and html5. lol, whatever I'm aware this is N4G and logical discussion is usually taking place on the forums but now even the forums are getting bad.

Even with HTML5 do you think it would honestly change with another proprietary media format? Unlikely, if apple can't control the payroll behind the moneymaker then like flash there is no reason to support it.

Apple clearly sees dollar signs out the ass so it's no brainer that they would slander a company that's doing far better than themselves in terms of being on the forefront of technologies and being one of the most well known and loved companies of the last decade and apple cannot definitely say the same.

@toaster um.. have you used Linux, Adobe flash might stutter or not work well 100% but there are alternatives that you can use from either the repositories or one found in the linux store and/or internet.

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

I like Google products and even considering a Nexus One with Android. Yup, even considering dropping $500+ on it for an unlocked one since I'm on ATT.

I personally hate Apple due to the elitist and trendy attitude, but respect them for their products quality and finish. With that said, I'm even more concerned about Google. They have shown time and time again, they don't respect users privacy and they are good at search! What a dangerous combination.

Even worse, and perhaps the most serious issue. Google isn't seen as evil in the public eye and they continually try to do stuff that gives them an unfair advantage that is masqueraded as for the benefit of the people. They basically have people's blessing to do this stuff.

[jjohan35]

My slow ass netbook can run flash, so I don't know why Apple is crying so hard about it.

Steve shouldn't diss Adobe like that. Without some of Adobe's products (particularly Photoshop, Lightroom, and other graphical powerhouses), Apple wouldn't be where it is today. They survived when PC/Microsoft took over the world simply because they were touting that the Apple platform is better suited for artists and designers. And that's all because of Adobe's products running on Apple machines! If Adobe decided to cut all of its products from the Apple platform, Apple would be so screwed considering that Apple's largest target audience is the art/design industry.

[ATi_Elite]

Steve Jobs is right about Adobe.

Adobe is heavy and clunky ive found lighter and better programs than anything from adobe.
They suck and are lazy and have a lot of flaws in their security that makes spreading trojens and malware easy.

Apple uses HTML4 and 5 is the new hottness. Way more advanced than Flash
Adobe

Google vs. iPhone = Cell phones produce too much radiation so I can careless but the iPhone is better if i had to choose.

[Letros]

Seriously, I'd shake hands with T-Pain before this guy.

[PLAYSTATIONGENRATION]

He is a very cool guy...

[Letros]

If cool means spelling all your words wrong, then yea he's one slick dude, cool to be stupid, only in America.

[JsonHenry]

Your statement about Tpain (had to look him up) and your default pic says everything I need to know about you.

And I agree with the OP. Steve is obnoxious to put it politely.

[Gish]

T-Pain wins simply because HE'S ON A BOAT!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[RealityCheck]

In my opinion he should focus on the business side of things and put his ego and personal politics aside. If his own customers want Flash on their iPod and iPad, then at least make it an option even if you charge for it. If his own customers want Blu-ray on their Macs, then at least make it a factory option even if you charge for it.

[Letros]

Apple quotes battery life knowing flash won't be used on the device, and Mac users are generally too dumb to know that multimedia functions drain batteries fast. Therefore they just don't let their customers use them, it's better for the customer in the end.

[bjornbear]

really? I'd think that's kind of evident =/

the more crap you run in the background, the more processing it requires, hence the more energy.

Don't generalise, especially since "mac users" are a minority and usually use macs for specific functions like graphic design and sound engineering, which means they are far from dumb =/

I hate the notion that Mac users and tech-dumb just because they don't spend their days playing with the insides of their computers =/

Fine, Mac is very simplified and user-friendly...but why the hell is that a bad thing?

Good design is simplifying and streamlining a process to make it easier to work with.

If you want to go ape-sh!t with your computer and make it 100% personal, you don't get a Windows, you get Linux.

But just because you don't want to revamp your whole computer and get a Mac, it doesn't automatically make you "dumb".

I do agree though that Mac's are becoming popular and more "tech-dumb" people are flocking to them, but remember, before they had Mac's, these people had PC's running Windows, but no one said "Windows users are dumb" =P

And I also agree Mac's should have Blu-ray as an option =/ Apple are getting a little annoying with these hardware / software limitations, but so far i haven't been affected so I can't say its bad =/

[Letros]

My sister has a new iMac I've used it, I use W7 everyday as well, W7 is so much more streamlined and user friendly than XP ever was. That said I don't see an advantage of OSX over W7 besides high end graphic production, what she does.

Does it not bother people that a company determines what you can and cannot have on YOUR purchased hardware?

[Monkey521]

I'm not going to start an argument, but as a mac user, I really am not bothered by my OS being made by the same people that make my hardware. And if I REALLY want to...I can put on windows as a partition. So I can have the best of both worlds.

BTW, I have a mac since I am a Digital Designer (it's graphic design with a broader range like 3D design). I have tried adobe software on both mac and pc, and it's better on Mac IMO. But I hate flash as a program. Don't get me wrong, I think that Apple should support it, because flash makes up a significant portion of the online space, but it's such a poorly written program and is annoying to maintain (website wise). I personally code from the ground up with basic HTML, CSS, and Java. Then I integrate some flash items if I want later. Anyways, that was my rant....take it or leave it.

[sikbeta]

"If you want to go ape-sh!t with your computer and make it 100% personal, you don't get a Windows, you get Linux."

BEST COMMENT EVA... lol

Add to that, you don't want your Computer to get F~cked up by a little worm or @$$-trojan-H and if you want SAVE a GREAT [%] of Resources

UBUNTU FTW!!!

[Strikepackage Bravo]

on the google full of bullsh%t thing. Like I said before, if google is so interested in making the world a better place, and doing what is right, they would not even be doing business in a country like China that does not even let it's people do uncensored searches on the web!

Wha, why did I get disagrees? So censorship is good now?

[JamMyth]

I think you have the disagrees because of your logical fallacy:

1. Google does business with China
2. China is evil because the government censor its people
3. Since google does business with China, it's evil

In order for google to have a presence in China their content is censored--whether google does it themselves or the Chinese government does it for them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Google is a company, after all, out to make money and they are in China to make money. (not to further democracy or to to a proponent of free speech, they are there to make money--very much like 90% of the manufacturing companies that do business with China (I just made that number up so don't expect a reference)).

I'm guessing you are boycotting Chinese products because of your stance on China's record on human rights? (I'm guessing no, since you're a gamer and pretty much everything you buy is on a gaming system is made in China).

Now, I'm not defending google here, I think they have a questionable policy when it comes to online privacy( http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... but calling them evil for doing business in China I think is unjustified.

And for the record, google is not there to make the world a better place, they're here to make money, without doing evil ("You can make money without doing evil.")
http://www.google.com/corpo...

[Strikepackage Bravo]

I agree with you almost completely, and you made your point beautifully. But I know its not google who chooses to censor, its the Chinese government. However, it IS google who claims to be in business to do more than just make money, they say they want to change the world for the better. At least that is what I have heard, perhaps they never said any such thing.

Whatver the case, if you are allowing the Chinese gov to use your service as another means of censoring its people, then you are part of the problem, all companies need to tell China, either you treat your people like human beings, or we do not do business in your country.

If they are in business to make money, than stop being so preachy and stfu. Few businesses are "evil" or make money by being "evil", google is no better than most companies, to push some myth that they are some kind of corporate saint is just phony.

Nothing wrong with doing biz in places like China if you simply claim to be a pure capitalist company, but when you claim to be some beacon of corporate morality, then you just do not turn around and do biz in places like China, that is hypocritical.

[Foxgod]

Google invented toilet adds, i cant even enter a public restroom anymore without an attempt to brainwash me.

Explain how Google is not a corporation (dubbed evil by simpleminded)

Enfin, Apple aint much better, they build the most closed source environment on this planet, if they would be as big as MS, they would be the worst monopolist in the world.

[dirthurts]

Apple as a company sucks.
They keep their software so closed up it's ridiculous. And the whole not allowing people to freely upgrade their hardware is pretty cruddy too. They just do it because it's less work on their end.

[kneon]

Google and Apple are fighting it out for the "Evil Empire" crown. Microsoft is now a distant 3rd or 4th.

[PopEmUp]

who the 3rd or 4th company you're talking about?

[baum]

Oh, the irony.

[kneon]

That would be intel, they have not been playing very nice lately, thus the big payout to AMD

[PopEmUp]

thank man, I guess all the big boys had draw all the attention away, causing me to not notice about Intel is doing some dirty job on the back lol

[McRad]

I wish N4G let me say bullshit :D

[PS360PCROCKS]

Screw you Jobs, you pretentious prick! Everyone talks sh*t about Microsoft, what about Apple? Apple overprices all their products and keeps all control for itself. Want memory? Call Apple. Want a new GPU? Call Apple. Everything has to go through apple, you have no customization of the product you own. Apple are the evil ones.

[PS360PCROCKS]

I've decided Apple is just against the word flash in general. ;)

[TABSF]

Always hated apple

Limiting software
Dog sh!t case
No User upgrades
No user overclocks
You have to buy a raid card for $500 when all X58 motherboards on PC support it.

Give me £2,625.99 and I will build a PC what will walk a MAC PRO

On Apple official UK website, Configure your Mac Pro

CPU:
One 3.33GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon adds £981.00 (same die as Intel Core i7 975)
RAM:
6GB of 1066MHz DDR3 ECC SDRAM adds £123.00 (ECC not really needed)
Raid Card:
Mac Pro RAID Card adds £572.00 (Raid 0,1,5,10 standard on all PC X58 Motherboards
Hard Drive Bays 1-4:
8TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s adds £1636.00 (no joke £1,636 hahaha)
Graphics:
4 NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512MB adds £368.00 (could get a fermi for that soon)

One 18x SuperDrive, one Apple Mouse and one Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad standard

Finial Price for this tin junk £5,251.99

[fear88]

I still don't see a point why I SHOULD buy a mac.

Macs = Overpriced

Mac Users = Rich Dumb F*cks

Macs + Mac users = $$$$ for apple

And last I recall any company that under delivers on quality and over-performs on profit IS EVIL

[swiftshot93]

STFU and give us Flash!

[gdguide]

What a dikc. So 75% of videos are flash on the Internet, hundreds of thousands of games are Flash. He's full of BS. He's doing this because Flash has taken over as the Internet standard for video instead of Quicktime, and FREE flash game threaten 75% of the iPhone games library. He wants a CLOSED system so he can charge for things you should get free, and force formats that users aren't using.

And don't get me going with what he's done to gaming (basically selling the idea that crappy controls don't matter).

[Counter Strike]

Microsoft >> Apple << Google

[thewhoopimen]

Personally i don't have any problem with Steve Jobs calling out on Google. The CEO of Google was friggin on Apple's Board of Directors while they were designing and developing the iPhone. How would any CEO feel if a supposed ally in your company goes behind your back and starts making a new phone and completely new OS? CEO Eric Schmidt actually had access to ALOT of private information on what Apple was doing. The two companies were allied against MS at the time. Google didn't announce their android until like a year or two in the iPhone's life. What is Steve Jobs going to have to assume but hey, wtf you just stole all our marketing, licensing,carrier negotiation strategies, UI Design details, hardware know-how, etc out from under us?

That Don't be Evil Mantra? Utter Bu**sh*t.

Anyway, nothing wrong with your guys preferences for PCs, but don't be dissing macs before you've used them for any extended period. I used to be a PC Tech in College managing hardware and network troubleshooting. I won't say macs were consistently more reliable on the hardware end, (cuz they weren't), but networking a mac was hella lot easier. 'Nuff said

[Silly Mammo]

"Blu-Ray software is a mess, and Apple will wait until sales really start to take off before implementing it."

He's also still holding on to his opinion of blu-ray.

[SilverSlug]

Apple are saints of the industry. Everyone else evil? Funny how everyone thinks that Microsoft is evil when they give out billions to charity each year.

Also, adobe lazy? They are not the one releasing a big iphone with no multitasking, flash and low res mobile games.

[thewhoopimen]

And how conveniently the charity was set in place DURING the Netscape Anti-trust violation trials...

[Gish]

oops

[ktchong]

No, but in a couple years, iPhone will be a marginalized niche product just like Mac. Android will be the number-one mobile platform just like what Windows is in the PC market.

[cmrbe]

Its a great and noble goal to strive for going as far as threating to leave China. However Google understands that they must make compromise being a bussiness entity that they are.

What i really really love about Google is their support for open platform to almost geek level. With every move that google made it seems like all they really wanted is to open up every industry they have a stake in which is what i really support. This will allow for more innovation and competition which benefits everyone. When it come to the internet people assosciate Google with the internet. To alot of people Google embodies the whole concept of the internet as such its benefits them industires they involve with is opend up.

[frostypants]

Does Flash suck? YES.

It is also, however, extremely prevalent and as de facto a standard as you'll ever see, so to ignore that and fail to support it at this point in time is the height of idiocy.

If anyone is "lazy", it's Apple for shortchanging their user base this way.

[koehler83]

Totally.

And to be perfectly honest, I would love nothing more than for Adobe to stop supporting Mac software out of spite. It would really save me a lot of headaches as a prepress tech, troubleshooting on 2 platforms. Apple would lose a lot of money from the printing industry if it wasn't for Adobe. All of it, in fact.

[koehler83]

While Jobs enjoys his view from his High Horse, I'll be enjoying lots of Flash based media on my PC and PS3.

[Hot_tea]

have you seen tha quality of youtube on html5 vs flash? It's HORRIBLE.
I'm currently opted in right now on the testing (only some vids are html5) but the html5 vids are at least 3 times sh1tter in quality than flash.
I know flash is buggy and memory and cpu hogging, but unless the alternative looks at least as good, it will never fly.

[YoungKingDoran]

oh man. can you imagine how much an apple search engine would suck? it would be more censored than googling in china

[madpuppy]

look at the pot calling the kettle black.