Team Ninja Explains Why They Chose to Launch Wo Long Fallen Dynasty Day One on Game Pass

Wo Long Producer Fumihiko Yasuda explained why they said yes to Microsoft hosting the game on Xbox Game Pass when it launches.

[Lightning77]

Exposure mainly.

[jonny897]

Yeah, not because of the money.

[Lightning77]

Money and exposure. Obviously it's gonna be for the money.

[Abracadabra]

Yes, it's about the money... just like every Sony's 3rd party exclusive deals. There is always money involved.

Anyone that makes a Xbox Game Pass deal or Sony 3rd party exclusive deal, is always about the money. Nobody makes these deals to lose money.

[excaliburps]

I presume since it's a new franchise, the Xbox Game Pass route is much safer when it comes to investing? Like, get X money upfront, and you're money poured into developing the game is significantly reduced?

I don't blame them to be honest. Money is money; it's not like they're not releasing on other platforms or something.

[ABizzel1]

This seems more like an experiment for them really.

They have to know these type of games don't sell well on Xbox. So this is a way for them to get people into the games and hopefully to buy upcoming games and maybe try their previous ones. They also expect the majority of their sales from this game is going to come from PS Japan, which Xbox is pretty much dead in at this point (it did better than XBO this gen, but sales are back down below 2,000 per month).

On the flip side this does nothing but annoy western PS gamers, but it's business. That being said Team Ninja needs to be aware that western sales can crumble with this type of deal, so whatever they expected for western PS sales they need to make sure this deal covers it. But outside of the n4g world most people could care less if these type of games are on GamePass because they still often sell much better on PS anyway.

[KillBill]

@ABizzel1 ~ "They have to know these type of games don't sell well on Xbox." You have no clue what you are talking about. The Souls games do very well on Xbox as well action adventure games. And throw in the multiplayer component and it screams Xbox. Don't let your blind loyalty to other systems make you talk ignorantly about another.

And "On the flip side this does nothing but annoy western PS gamers, but it's business" how/why would this annoy PS gamers? It has nothing to do with PS. It isn't exclusive like what Sony is doing with the other Team Ninja game title. The only way they would be annoyed is seeing it be offered for no added cost to those subscribed to a service they aren't subscribed to. Because PS players can purchase the game and play it on PS systems.

And how can you claim Team Ninja expects the majority of their sales on Xbox to be PS Japan when it has only 2.6 million. Do you really imagine the game will sell more in Japan than western markets? PS isn't doing as well in Japan as in the past... "But the latest Famitsu sales report will surely be sobering for the top brass at PlayStation, as its consoles slumped to just 1.5 per cent of the overall market share for the week ending 11th September, 2022."

[blackblades]

Exposure? Really hard game. I mean there is a demo out for limited time. Previous game were on the same level. We all should know how souls game feels like by now. They got payed good money by ms. Good thing they are zillionaire

[XiNatsuDragnel]

Money and exposure nuff said

[KillBill]

It is much more than just exposure. It is about actually allowing the most people to play it and to make sure there is a multiplayer experience worth playing. "really increase the number of people you have available to join your party and take on bosses." And they are also getting paid for inclusion of the title into Game Pass. Essentially paying for part or all of the development process. (depending on the deal and cost of development put into the game) Game Pass builds player base opportunity for games. But you still need to be a good game to win gamers over. Lets hope the game in full is worth the play time.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

Why not release day one on plus as well?

[sparky77]

Sony probably didn't want to pay up, I am sure they asked.

[blackblades]

Its a waste of money, look at it. MS paying alot to buy these big companies, paying alot to put 3rd party on game pass, then these games these days for high quality is high price as as well.

[Lightning77]

@Blades it's not a waste of money to. The user. If the game is good it won't be a waste for MS either.

If they put Saints Row on GP then that's a waste for MS and gamers. Cyber Punk at launch has been a waste for them and the player. Any bad game would be a waste.

[ABizzel1]

That and because the game is actually going to sell on PS, espeically in JP, so it's having their cake and eating it to, but it's a double-edged sword for PS in the West.

[blitz0623]

A game like this will sell 10x more on Playstation consoles. Financially it makes the most sense to take MS money for their Xbox revenue and PS sales for PS revenue

[Abracadabra]

Sony didn't pay them.

[Lexreborn2]

I would assume their thought process is sales expectations would be relatively low on Xbox for a new franchise. And Microsoft want to get those Japanese games in its catalogue. So, if they go off of ni-oh 1 and 2 sales and expect even a third would get it on Xbox then MS will pay to get that initial interest up.

I’m sure any fan of Ni-oh on PS will more than likely already buy this. That’s pretty much 2 million that’s happening

[Crows90]

My thoughts exactly. I'm a fan of Nioh...I'm buying the game.

[Ra3v3r]

Very likely to be lower sales on Xbox as it is the platform with the smaller user base, however I still think it would have done decent numbers off the back of the Nioh games.

Really enjoyed the Wo Long demo, definitely putting the money down for it even though it's coming to Game Pass.

[Lightning77]

Low sales would be due these sorta games not being available on The console. 7th gen with Dark Souls, Ninja Gaiden amongst many others did really well sales wise. As 7th gen went on these sorta games started dwindling. 8th for Xbox was none existent. Because they're none existent Xbox the fanbase as whole are not expecting games like this on the console. When these sorta games just stop appearing then suddenly appearing again, MS has to build that interest back up for their fans.

At TGS MS announced a slew of older and new JRPG's hitting game pass. Not because those games need the exposure, but Xbox gamers need to be re-exposed to these types of games again.

[Crows90]

I'm not sure that's in the interest of the developer. These games sell well on PlayStation unlike on Xbox. I can see this game selling a couple million on Playstation easy. And a couple of million sold at full price is quite a bit of money.

[jznrpg]

Because MS probably paid for exclusive right for Gamepass . They don’t want plus to compete and paid enough to keep it off for a time I’m sure .

[HardKnockKid24]

Crazy how you just outlined Sonys main approach trying to Stan for them lol

[Ryuk_2007]

But Deathloop is on ps plus and gamepass..

[Profchaos]

Probably money. A day 1 release is very rare for plus often the publisher will presumably wa t more money upfront to compensate for the loss in sales from players who would of outright purchased the game on day 1

[anast]

The game wasn't worth the asking price.

[Snakeeater25]

Became you already have on extra GOT so I guess they prefer wait to put forspoken on extra instead

[SurgicalMenace]

Well you have this thing in Sony's community where their supporters are willing to pay for their games. 3rd parties make the most money on PS platforms and the least on XB platforms. This is decades old information.

[Redemption-64]

Money 💰 🤑 💸 💲

[Zeref]

Definitely gonna play this game day one on GP 🔥🔥

[Crows90]

This is horrifying for the game. I hope they got a nice big check for this cuz I'm still going to pick it up on PlayStation 5. These are the creators of nioh for crying out loud. They don't need more exposure they're already popular. I will not resub to Game pass for this this is totally a game I want to support. The demo was awesome I'm sure the rest of the game will be as well.

On the bright side I do assume that these types of games sell very little on Xbox to begin with. So getting a nice big check for the Xbox platform probably isn't a bad move.

[ChubbyBlade]

Sorry but they’re still a niche company. 3 million lifetime sales for nioh and 2.5 for nioh 2. That’s still not mainstream. GP will open the title up to millions more people.

[blackblades]

There not niche

[SurgicalMenace]

Millions of players not paying full price so....3 million sales at full retail will trump GP.

[Tacoboto]

I'll likely pick this up on PS since this is the platform I choose to play this type of game, but knowing Xbox and their ecosystem, Xbox games releasing at full price outside of the service have to compete with all the games in the service that are available at a fraction of the price. Nioh isn't known to Xbox gamers and Team Ninja isn't as recognizable as FROM. It's great that this game will instantly have a built-in audience just by being on the service - my hope is that if the game is as awesome as the demo + polish, it'll have a sustained playerbase and longer lasting interest.

I feel like Nioh 2 just kind of released and that was it. Then they did the PS5 collection and that was it again, with little fanfare, as solid as it was.

[HardKnockKid24]

“Nioh isn’t known to Xbox gamers” …….

What??? Lol what??? Do you think all Xbox gamers are some monolith with just a single console? There is a ton of overlap between Nintendo, MS & Sony outside of internet console warriors.

[Tacoboto]

Nioh 2 apparently sold less than the first if ChubbyBlade up there is right, that's not a sign of a franchise that people who game primarily on Xbox (which is why I said "Xbox gamers"...) are going to have at the front of their mind.

[HardKnockKid24]

@tacoboto that’s all guesses. That 2.5 number is from 7 months ago. And how a PS exclusive indicative of what an Xbox gamer would do? Elden Ring sold millions on Xbox, heck that’s the console I bought it for and my PS5 works just fine.

[Lightning77]

Elden Ring says hi

[Crows90]

Open worlds say hi.
How many beat it?

[lonewolf10]

@Crows90

Ultimately, these figures are skewed by the fact that many players buy a game without starting it, move at a significantly slow pace (especially with a huge game like Elden Ring), or start playing a game without any intention of ever finishing it. A 50% completion rate for a boss is a very good indicator that a high percentage of players invested in actively playing the game are doing so consistently. For instance, while the first few story achievements in 2018's God of War on PSNProfiles show a completion rate of 64 to 88 percent, all other story achievements are in the range of 50%. Less than 50% of players have even beaten the final boss. By contrast, at least one Elden Ring ending has been achieved by about 25% of PlayStation players according to PSNProfiles, and at least one ending has been achieved by 44% of players according to Steamhunters.

[Lightning77]

How many people beat it doesn't matter it's how many ppl bought it. Which was allot on Xbox.

[StarkR3ality]

Stop crying, if this came out on PSplus you'd be doing cartwheels in the comments. Dev knows better than you where they want their game.

[thesoftware730]

Exactly this^^

I never ever understand why console brand loyalists feel the need to act as if they know what kind of contract these multi-mill/billion-dollar companies are making. Feel free to be mad about it being day one all you want, but please skip all the "It's a bad thing for the game mumbo jumbo". You are a consumer and have no idea what deals these mega corps/devs are making.

[thesoftware730]

Oh wow, this must be terrible for the game because Crows90 on N4G said it. Team Ninja and Koei must not know what they are doing!

They should stop and cancel this contract that both companies looked over, negotiated, and thought was a good deal. Quick, Crows90 sends them an email and let them know how one customer that thrives on brand loyalty feels about their million-dollar business decisions.

[ApocalypseShadow]

Money. They were paid. A game that Sony gets on their platform without paying for it. But you'll hear the whataboutism. The difference is, when Sony pays for an exclusive game, they most likely believe that a game will potentially sell on its own and promote the platform with sales of the console. If it's good, PlayStation gamers will buy it.

With game pass, you are guaranteed that most won't buy the game as it has been proven again and again from other games on the service and NPD numbers. When Microsoft has to put their biggest game in a subscription service and give away the multiplayer for it, you know the base aren't buying. So, Team Ninja took the check on Microsoft's platform. That's a clear difference.

[ChubbyBlade]

Thanks for sharing you don’t understand the industry.

[ApocalypseShadow]

Really? So, Devil May Cry 5 needed "exposure" on Xbox with that rumored 19 million? I didn't know the franchise was so niche?

Yakuza needed exposure when the game franchise has been around for years?

Japanese companies know to stick their hand out on Xbox because they know sales aren't going to be high. That offsets their cost to port to Xbox.

Team Ninja stuck their hand out because they know sales will be low. Nioh and Nioh 2 SOLD on PlayStation more than Xbox. You can deny it all you like. Disagree all you like.

Devil May Cry 5 SOLD on PlayStation. Yakuza SOLD on PlayStation. Prove to me that sales numbers are high for Japanese games on Xbox compared to PlayStation. I will be SURE to wait.

[wiz7191]

@apocalypse Japanese games doing better on a Japanese console , wouldn’t that be even more obvious .. also with more consoles being sold of course it would sell more , also Nioh would sale more on PlayStation given it’s a PlayStation exclusive. I’m just going to assume you’re a little lost.

[Ra3v3r]

Are you insinuating that Xbox is only getting this game because it's being put on Game Pass? That makes zero sense. I mean it's going on Game Pass because Xbox paid them to allow it but in no way does it mean it was skipping the platform.

If you're suggesting Xbox only gets games cos they pay people off, well I hate to tell you this, but Sony do the same thing but more often than not, it's to get it exclusively.

[ApocalypseShadow]

Japanese games don't sell on Xbox like they do on PlayStation. You know this. Trying to deny the truth won't make it go away. Now the excuse is that Sony sells more console. But Microsoft and you guys say "console sales don't matter." Which is it? Stop backpedaling.

How many articles have we seen of Jim Ryan, traveling with his checkbook to get games on Sony's platform?

Now....

How many articles have we seen where Phil Spencer traveled to Japan to get games on the Xbox platform? We know they won't release on Xbox in Japan because the console doesn't sell as well as the other two. Phil Spencer most likely, AGAIN, pulled out his checkbook to get Japanese companies like Team Ninja, to put their game on game pass. This isn't the days of Tomonobu Itagaki where he only released on Xbox because of a big check and not liking Sony brass. Phil is known to have to pull out his checkbook to bring Japanese games to the system.

Prove any of my statements as wrong? Does Phil travel to Japan often just to get games on Xbox? Yes it no? Team Ninja is just doing the usual PR speak while he accepts the check.

[Lightning77]

"Nioh and Nioh 2 SOLD on PlayStation more than Xbox."

Nioh sold 0 on Xbox because the games aren't on Xbox.

[ApocalypseShadow]

You noticed that. That's great. You figured it out. Was wondering when someone would notice

Want to notice something else?

Sony gets this game without having to pay for it. But Sony gets Rise of the Ronin as an exclusive from Team Ninja. I guess Xbox had to pay to get something for game pass. Sony gets it for free. Lol.

[Orchard]

"If it's good, PlayStation gamers will buy it."

I love this comical idea that somehow being forced to pay full price for a game that others can play for an extremely low entry price is somehow 'winning'.

[ApocalypseShadow]

I love the fact that games don't sell on Xbox that Team Ninja had to get a check. And, is making Rise of the Ronin as exclusive on PS5 and Sony still gets this game too. Sony doesn't have to pay to put these games on Plus.

Lol. I was hoping someone would notice Nioh. They trusted Sony's system with new IP to sell. Can't trust Xbox to bring Japanese games to. Not without a check.

[CBaoth]

here we go again for another welfare advert from orchard. It's really simple. Sony got the pick of the litter in Rise of the Ronin. It's exclusive. Xbox fans get the Team Ninja leftovers on GP. If it's good, it'll be available on PS5 as well. As much as you Xbox fans hype and act like Elden Ring is exclusive you'd think you'd be remiss in not having the opportunity to PLAY Rise and Nioh 1/2.

[HardKnockKid24]

@apocalypse….. so if it weren’t on game pass you’re saying it would be on Xbox at all? You have a source? Or are you the “trust me bro” guy

[ApocalypseShadow]

I'm saying it wouldn't sell as well. Which is why these games don't come to Xbox. Phil has to pay and put it on game pass just to get you guys to notice.

Which is why Ronin and this game are coming to PlayStation. Most games sell more on PlayStation. We can also wait for a sale if we don't like a launch price.

[HardKnockKid24]

Who’s “you guys”? I’m a PlayStation gamer as well. That’s the issue here my friend. Look at this through the lens of a gamer and not a console warrior. Who cares if Phil paid for it or not? Won’t paying for it put it in front of people who wouldn’t normally play it? Isn’t that a good strategy to get it to sell on Xbox more? What would you recommend instead?

[gangsta_red]

You are seriously running out of excuses to use against GP and it's really starting to show with every post you leave.

Sounds like you're upset that Team Ninja got a guaranteed check from MS?

I mean not long ago you were talking about "support the devs" and here's a clear example of MS doing just that by giving them a platform with a check that had to have been good enough for them to agree to put their game on GP day and date. I seriously can't even begin to understand how you're desperately trying to turn this into a negative.

Every single Xbox gamer who subscribes to GP will get to play this game on day one. How can you even argue that and call yourself a gamer?

[ApocalypseShadow]

Why would I be upset?

Rise of the Ronin from Team Ninja is coming exclusively to PS5 and not Xbox. And getting this game too. Phil had to pay and put it on game pass because Xbox fans don't buy games or trusted to get new IPs like Ronin.

When you guys start buying games and not relying on game pass, maybe you'll get games like Ronin too.

[Lightning77]

I didn't "notice" anything I already knew that. You got caught and now you're embarrassed....

Anyway. Ok listen, MS paid to get the game on gamepass. They didn't need to do it, because the game is coming to the console regardless. Putting it on gamepass just sweetens the deal for Xbox gamers.

"I guess Xbox had to pay to get something for game pass. Sony gets it for free. Lol."

"But Sony gets Rise of the Ronin as an exclusive from Team Ninja."

Ok what is Sony getting for free? Rise of The Ronin being exclusive? I'm sorry what? You think Team Ninja woke up one day and decided to give Sony an exclusive game.... For free..... My head hurts. That's enough extreme delusional fanboyism for one day... I can't anymore.

It's on gamepass with a gamepass subscription. Since it's on gamepass if you buy it, it's 20% off. Don't have to pay full price if you don't want to. Of course if you want to pay full price then that's optional also. Options... Are a good thing.

[HardKnockKid24]

Lol don’t even bother, this guy is running out of room to explain his blind fanboyism. Out here cheering because some gamers won’t be able to play a game, using terms like “we” and “us” for his console war club. @apocolyse, some people can just turn off their Xbox and turn on their PS5… no one cares which plastic box you sacrificed your first born for lol

[CrimsonWing69]

You don’t think Sony gave Team Ninja a “check” to have Rise of the Ronin a console exclusive?

I don’t understand your frustration at all. You have no idea how much Microsoft paid to get the game on Gamepass and for all you know it set Team Ninja up for success on a game that might not sell as well AND helps get more people to try the game out.

[gangsta_red]

Sony paid to keep Ronin off of Xbox. That's hilarious that you believe they just gave Ronin for free because you Sony guys like to pay out the pocket for everything. But with recent events, it's pretty obvious Sony pays to keep games off Xbox and especially GP.

I also love that your whole argument is,

"Phil is paying for a game so Xbox gamers can play it on day one!"

Think about that for a while... you're upset that a game is being paid for by MS and is now able to be played day and date for Xbox players. LoL.

[ApocalypseShadow]

Sure. I'm upset. Just like Sony is anti consumer or some ridiculous narrative you guys come up with to cope.

I can pull multiple articles where Phil traveled to Japan to to get you guys games that Sony gets regardless. Team Ninja could have easily released Ronin on Xbox too. Or said no to being exclusive.

You guys just don't buy games.

Software sales verify this very truth. Doesn't have to be Japan. It's across the board with European and US games. Sony gets games like Nioh and Ronin because PlayStation fans buy games. That's supporting developer hard work. Microsoft is only supporting their subscription and want you on it.

[gangsta_red]

I like how you're bringing up other games and yet ignoring all the other ones including this game that this article is about. Sony pays to keep games off other systems while making you pay for games for theirs...meanwhile, MS supports the devs with cash while giving their fans access day one on a low cost service. But please keep believing you're fighting some good fight of "supporting the devs".

Nobody is arguing Japanese games selling better on playstation, this was a fact even before Game Pass was even thought of, so I don't even understand why this is your go to defense to justify paying full price. Again making points that has nothing to do with this game being day and date.

And lets not kid ourselves with your podium grand standing of "support the devs", when many PS only Japanese games have failed in retail sales, also lets not even mention not long ago in the Ubisoft article you where telling people on this site to buy games on sale or at a discount, that's far from "supporting the devs" now is it?

You're full of hypocrisies is all there is, one minute you're explaining how GP isn't financially helping to support developers, the next you're explaining how developers are only putting games on GP because they're being supported financially. All you do is make shit up on the fly as you go article to article just raging on MS and Xbox.

[King_Noctis]

I just don’t understand you. Do you own or can afford only one console?

[AmUnRa]

Money talks, thats why.... People will try it, but this kind of games sell less on xbox than on Playstation.

[Lightning77]

Again, Elden Ring says hi.

[Elda]

Elden Ring isn't on GP.

[HardKnockKid24]

Which makes sense. If the game sold to 15% of each consoles install base that would naturally result in it selling more on PS5. Does that 15% on Xbox still mean millions in the bank for devs? Hell yea! So why not? What was your point in bringing up, “it sells less”

[Scissorman82]

Money.

[jznrpg]

Because MS paid them more than they would make from physical Xbox sales . We all know most Xboxers don’t buy games often

[Battlestar23]

Money nothing else. Also the reason why it's not coming to PS Plus subscription is because MS now pay devs extra to get the game 'exclusive' to gamepass subscription. It's all a money game to both companies neither of them are friends to gamers.

[gold_drake]

money talks.

[Orchard]

The demo was fun, looking forward to this - and it is certainly a good get for GamePass.

[SPEAKxTHExTRUTH]

Because they got a bag…

[Traecy]

Finally a new interesting big budget title arriving on GP.

[Elda]

I played the demo on PS5 & I enjoyed it especially the co op part. I will be buying so many games on PS5 next year especially 3rd party exclusives. I will play this on my XBSX through GP to save a few bucks.

[Julion0715]

Xbox game pass is amazing but I still buy titles I enjoy. This game will be a purchase from the demo

[northpaws]

I hope it works out for them, I was going to pay full price for it, but now it will be on Game Pass, it saved me money, which is good. But that also means I will hesitate to pre-order or buy their games from full price from now on, hoping that one day it will be included in Game Pass.

[northpaws]

I remember when mobile games used to be good, because you pay a fixed amount of money and you get a game with 100% of the content.

And then people get lurked to "free games", then they spend $30 for a skin, watch an ad for double coins, and $500 later, they still don't own 10% of the game.

This is what will happen with GamePass, it is a fixed amount of money to share between all first party developers and all games they paid to be on the platform, either the quality goes down or there will be more and more microtransactions and ads, only entitled gamers who doesn't really love gaming would wish all games on GamePass.

[Moe-Gunz]

Demo was okay. Far behind NiOh 2 though. Hopefully some of the systems are expanded before release.

[Jrpg_Gamer]

To the end only the hardcore will be playing the game, I doubt this strategy works, at least they got a good check

[BrainSyphoned]

First thought---So it's probably not worth my time then.

[SpineSaw]

For those that never played Nioh or Nioh 2 if your interested in this game play the demo. The Nioh games IMO are a little more difficult than the Dark Souls games with the difference being for me and again IMO getting from the start of the map to a Boss door is noticeable more difficult but like the Souls games if you level yourself up you can make the game as easy as you want it to be. As far as Nioh and Nioh 2 go I think the 1st Nioh game was more difficult but I think Nioh 2 was a better game as you were given better tools to work with. I've read many reviews from the Wo Long demo and many say it has a Nioh feel to it. I have not played the demo and not sure if I will as i'm a Team Ninja fan I've already decided to get the game on release but if you've not played the Nioh games play the demo because if you go in blind and this game is anything like Nioh 2 the start of the game can be a pretty steep learning curve and most may find it easier to walk away at that point..again my opinion.

[spoonard]

Hope they get paid.

[Goozex]

Definitely adding this one to my physical collection

[darkrider]

Money. Really easy to see. You got some millions,

[Knushwood Butt]

Because the publisher has little choice.

'Gamepass just keeps giving' Agreed thanks to gamepass i haven't bought a single game on Xbox for the last 3 years and I'm never going to either.'.

If Xbox gamers aren't buying games, publishers HAVE to put it on GP just to get some revenue from that platform.

Honestly, if this model starts failing, third party multiplats are going to start disappearing.

[MadLad]

So the majority of 3rd party releases make it day one on Gamepass?

[CrimsonWing69]

Pretty sure the money offered also helped.

This is great though. The problem is it’s still niche, so where you may have a bunch of people checking it out, I’m curious to see how many stay with it.

[X-23]

Don't really care for this, Nioh has been great, Nioh 2 was better and I believe Nioh 2 was overshadowed by other games because of it's release date likely being cluttered up with other releases. I was going to buy the game regardless and I still am, people should support this game with their money especially since they provided a demo to try out if you're on the fence for the type of game it is.
I suppose it may work out as Playstation players will still buy it obviously and maybe people on Steam if they just don't opt out and get the Game Pass version as well.

[MadLad]

Oh no.
Now it's going to destroy the game.

The only way not to make money is to be on Gamepass; and every game that ever appears on it is doing themselves a disservice.

[saint_seya]

will it be playable on the cloud? thast all i care about :D

[Snakeeater25]

Because they know that the resemblance with GOT is way to big so they put it for free. A Rip of GOT si know worth 70$ and am glad they know it

[TheColbertinator]

Money Money Money

Got that Moneeeyyy

[Anomander]

Perfect game to add to the Gamepass and help out in the Japanese market where the Xbox brand is slowly growing. It might even pick up a few more players in the west, but I see this more for Japan then anything else.