NVIDIA RTX2080Ti cannot run Watch Dogs Legion Preview Build with 60fps on 1080p/Ultra Settings/RTX

DSOGaming writes: "Watch Dogs Legion is one of the first Ubisoft games that will support real-time ray tracing effects. Ubisoft held a preview event in which various media had the opportunity to test the PC version with its RTX reflections enabled. However, it appears that NVIDIA's most powerful GPU, the RTX2080Ti, is unable to run the game at 60fps."

[Daniel2183]

Phil Spencer confirmed DirectX ray-tracing for the title on Series X. Hopefully also 60fps

[ColdSin]

Not with incompetent Ubisoft at helm.

[MightyHealthy]

They must be doing something right, they're what, the 3rd biggest dev

[Sunny12345]

Are they incompetent, or does Ray tracing requires that much of graphical power, that they have to limit to 60 fps. Time to preorder the 3080.

[RazzerRedux]

"Hopefully also 60fps"

Doubtful

[TheHan]

More likely to hit 60fps on Xbox than PS.

[Shane Kim]

The Han

Fps is cpu task wich is the same on both consoles.

[RazzerRedux]

More likely it will be 30 fps on both.

[Jin_Sakai]

Ubisoft games usually run like crap. They don’t know the definition of “optimization”.

[morganfell]

Optimization in ubi speak means optimal DLC coupled with optimal games as service packaging to provide optimal profits.

[UltraNova]

Add optimal executive shuffling to the mix and your spot on Morgan.

[Baza]

All those TF and no confirmation series X will run this cross gen game at 4K or 60fps. All we get is a “ray-tracing”/little better reflections!? Expected more

[_dangerclose_]

Not gonna happen.

[aftershock]

If it doesn't run at 60fps with DXR on a 2080ti it's not going to on XSX 😂😂😂

[BeRich233]

if ubisoft makes a performance mode, it might happen.

[ForwardDude]

"Hopefully also 60fps" If he didn't confirm it, probably won't happen. If he knew it was 60fps for sure, he would have say so. If you have to guess and be hopeful, either Phil Spencer is not good a marketing ( which honestly he is not ) or it won't happen. When Watch Dogs Legion is confirmed to run at 60fps on Xbox, Phil Spencer will not hesitate to say it is so. In the meantime, spreading rumurs is unhealty since it give unrealistic expectation of the effective power of the Xbox.

[lpking2005]

Phil Spencer says a lot of things!

[Profchaos]

Nope no chance they will target a locked 30 with partial ray tracing if today's digital foundry analysis is anything to go off.

I'm sorry but Phil Spencer's 60fps with RT is all marketing and in house first party targets while third party make zero promise of this. Some of the most advanced of hardware and graphics cards that will cost the same as the entire next gen console range will only do 30 with RT. Console optimisation is a thing because you don't have a big os overhead but it's not that big.

But maybe they will give a 60 fps option if you use SSR instead of RT or something

[SierraGuy]

Trust me....windows overhead is so big...Ms doesn't even use windows to manage their azure servers...they trust Linux more.

[rainslacker]

@Sierra

That's more because Linux is more adaptable to different architectures. They wouldn't be using a standard Windows Kernel either way if they were running servers of that magnitude. Has nothing to do with the overhead of Windows....which is actually a lot, and is actually why consoles can outperform PC's with similar, or somewhat better specs.

[gravedigger]

60fps in open world title like WD3 with full path raytracing on next-gen consoles? Yeah, no . If much more powerful GPU 2080tiRTX than GPUs ( and CPUs and more RAM ) in next-gen consoles can't run this build at 60 fps at 1080p, neither will PS5/XSX

[SierraGuy]

Sony first party developer could easily get 60fps out of this title...with rt.

[esemce]

If a 2080Ti can't do 60 fps then the consoles have no chance.

[Father__Merrin]

it doesnt even run at a solid 60 fps on pc it definatly wont on consoles it will be 30 i predict.

edit: yes lets just buy a 3080ti when it comes out lol thats laughable what about a pc gamer who have a 1060

[SamTheGamer]

XSX will run it smoothly with 4K 60fps and RT enabled.

[TheOptimist]

AHAHAHA

Valhalla won't be running at 60fps on next gen consoles. What makes you think Legion will lol

[Destiny1080]

the fact that all Developers are showing 2080ti footage and not xbox footage should tell you all you need to know about the xbox version

[Kavorklestein]

MS went with Assassin's Creed for marketing. So of course they went with the 2080ti to show this off, since Nobody paid them.
This game looks dumb to be honest, and AC didnt even get gameplay during Xbox's stream in May.
Ubisoft totally dropped the ball.
Ubisoft are really struggling the last year or so, which is sad, cuz I've always liked them. AC Valhalla.... yikes.
I knew Vikings seemed like kind of a dumb fit for an Assassin's Creed title.
I've seen enough to know that I will never care about what is there in that game. First AC game I have no interest in.

[Yodasfavoritesoda]

Well a 2080 max q ran the unreal 5 demo better than the ps5 so what’s that tell you about it. Them epic tried to cover it up and went around having people delete tweets and interviews. A 7 and some odd tflop mobile gpu

[SamTheGamer]

They were running the UE5 demo video on a video player 🤦🏻‍♂️

[IRetrouk]

@ sam, dont bother mate, fanboys spreading shite dont care about facts, or care about listening, just a normal day on n4g😂

[ForwardDude]

@Kavorklestein

"MS went with Assassin's Creed for marketing" vs "Nobody paid them"

Which one is it? Nobody pay them or Microsoft pay them?

[RazzerRedux]

"MS went with Assassin's Creed for marketing. So of course they went with the 2080ti to show this off, since Nobody paid them."

Microsoft bought the advertising rights from Ubisoft so yes, Microsoft is paying Ubisoft.

[Kavorklestein]

You guys don't even get what I'm saying, jesus... I'm saying nobody paid for WATCHDOGS.... so they did it on a 2080ti cuz it's the best way to show it by default.
Pretty much Nobody wants exclusive promo rights to watchdogs or even really cares about it from what I've seen.
Assassin's Creed, MS paid for that deal, yes I know that guys.

[ajax17]

X

[olafu]

Well... maybe at PC low settings.

[Harryvok]

I think you underestimate how taxing ray tracing is, let alone 4K. These consoles are 'budget' machines compared to high end PC setups. We need to lower our expectations. While some games may be 60 FPS, they won't be 'ultra' settings.

[SierraGuy]

Maybe you should go watch the DF comparison video on F1 2019/2020.

The PC does almost nothing more than current gen consoles...sharper shadows....oooohhhh...give me a break everything set to ultra.

[Mr Logic]

HAHAHAHAHAHA. You'll get either 4K30 with RT or Dynamic 4K30 with RT. If you're lucky there will also be a 60fps performance mode in the 1080-1440p range without RT, but I highly doubt it. Ubisoft seems allergic to 60fps with their open world games.

[silenthillstrangler]

I'd be happy with chequeredboard 4k or 1440p if I can have 60fps.

[SierraGuy]

Not their fault open world sucks.

[aquamala]

More like checkerboard 4K, 30 fps, selective RT, medium settings

[rainslacker]

But it will have the highest quality pixels.

Plus, according to Spencer, Checkerboard is still True4K. At least on the X1. Apparently it's not True4K on PS when it does the same thing

[tontontam0]

Lol

Minecraft with RT enabled runs @30 fps on xbox series x.

[DashMad]

XSX won't be able to run 4k 60fps let alone PS5 both GPU inside them inferior than RTX 2080TI.

[SierraGuy]

I think they're equal...that's why they used it.

[Sunny12345]

Cmon man, we all know 2080ti is atleast 30% more powerful than the next gen consoles gpu. So if pc can't do it, consoles can for sure not do it. Optimization can only take you so far.

[peteymcpickle]

If a £1000+ graphics card can't do it, the new xbox absolutely can not. No matter how much time you spend with Mr Spencer's cock in your mouth.

[SierraGuy]

LMAO.

[ForwardDude]

Confirmed...in your wet dreams!

[NobleRed]

Yeah because the Xbox can do what the 2080ti isn't able.😂🤣㊃ 8;‍♂️

[RazzerRedux]

Expectations for next gen hardware is over the top.

[Charal]

You made my day.
It will run at 30fps on consoles, period.

[Sunny12345]

Don't say period when you ain't sure. Console games don't have graphics on max settings, its medium. So whats most probable is devs giving options for either 60 fps@ low graphics/ray tracing, or vice versa. Only someone mentally retarted will say that next gen console and pc high end graphics card have the same power. I only play on ps4, but I have the audacity to accept that pc has more graphical power than ps4/ps5

[Powerhug]

Yes, it will also clean, cook and give you blowjobs.

[MADGameR]

Highly doubt it.

[Sunny12345]

all this pc/ console comparison is redundant. You all say about high end graphics card. Fine pc is superior, double fps on same settings. Look at the fckin cost, all these people saying 2080ti(most here don't have it). That alone is 1200$. You are comparing a 3500$ product with a $400 dollar product and getting 30-40% more output. Congrats retards.

[Ash01Live]

Nice troll bro 👌

[snoopgg]

30fps on sxs

[MasterChief3624]

No.

[TheOptimist]

Ubisoft games are almost always crap in terms of optimization. No surprises here.

[masterfox]

Why we are focusing in reflections instead of creating some appealing fun gameplay instead?, if this will eat lots of GPU performance just to show off some shiny reflections is not worth a damn bit put your hardware in such consumption stress, overall while you are playing and if you are really are having fun, in the end you will not even notice it this so called ray tracing thing.

Rachet and Clank PS5 is the perfect example in how to use new technology in games, even thou it will include that ray tracing nonsense, is main focus is how they utilize their new SSD tech and displays how it affects the gameplay and create a very frenetic world that I would really want to play right now, and for this new Watchdogs game it looks kinda nice visually but for the gameplay part it just looks more of the same.

[Edgelordsupreme]

When you dont know what you're talking about, but still feel compelled to open your stupid mouth.

[masterfox]

lol seriously some people get very mad for no reason.

@Just
"these people think the SSD will add some magical gpu power"
haha nope is just that some people are well informed ;)

[JCOLE13195]

@Fax There was also a guy in here named MorePowerofGreen and he was probably one of the worst I’ve seen.

[Ashunderfire86]

#Edgelordsupreme

So a genius like Mark Cerny that is smarter than you don’t know what he is talking about when he talks SSD being a game changer? You Xbot gamers are so ignorant! Hell many developers praise the SSD for the PS5 including Epic games so your smarter than Tim Sweeney???? Why don’t you work for any of those companies? If SSD is only about load time why even talk about it being a game changer? It was already confirmed that Rachet and Clank For PS5 is using the SSD to go thru worlds without a loading screen at all! Both Series X and PS5 is taking full advantage of the SSD when games now require it! Most games you played on PC on current gen only had games with mechanic hard drive, an if you had the SSD it was only used for faster loading. The next generation consoles are not only using it to load games faster, it’s all about the changes in game development and how a level is made. No longer and repetitive corridors in a shooting game as a limitation. Developers never have to use cutscenes techniques to hide load times. Understand the fact that games up until point have been running on old mechanical hard drives. That why Resident Evil 8 according to Capcom can’t run on PS4 and Xbox One because it’s a demanding open world horror game with no load times that run smoothly on required SSDs, which also means the PC version have to completely change the requirements! You see you gamers think you know more than the developers who have PS5 and Series X Dev kits! So do your own research before you run your mouth 👄

[RonsonPL]

While I hate seeing ray-tracing hype at this point (clearly consoles (30fps) and PCs (1080p on 2080ti..) are too slow for it to be reasonable use of power and die space) I cannot agree that R&C is a good example of technology improving gameplay.
Here are my points about it:
- this looks like something which will be "cool" for a few minutes
- even if not, I'm not sure it fits the fast paced exploration+shooting style of the series
- if they wanted, they could've done that already. PS4 has 5GB or RAM for the game. PS3 had like 400MB. The graphics would take a hit, but by using the graphics style of PS3 games, this could still look nice, and would run at 60fps, which is way more important for gameplay than RT and SSD combined, even on PS4, and with 12GB of RAM for the game on PS5, even more so.
- even if you like the portal thing, answer this question honestly: Is it bigger than one simple addition in R&C:Crack in Time on PS3? Cause the time mechanics were more interesting and a bigger "feature" than portals IMHO, and even so, I still didn't find it to be anything special. Glide flying on PS3 was 100x more fun gameplay addition than even this. And I don't see myself liking portals more than time manipulation mechanics in CiT.

SSDs are cool and all, but you should not expect it to bring huge gameplay improvements. The only thing which really matters in terms of gameplay, in next-gen consoles, is the CPU speed increase. Count more complicated physics, move games with current physics from 30fps to 60fps or more. Allow for better VR. These are the things that shape the next-gens, not RT and also not SSD for many, many game genres. You can imagine SSD to be helpful in GTA VI, but not so much in a Tekken game.

[IRetrouk]

So all the devs saying the SSDs will allow new gameplay, features and designs are making it up? Including microsofts devs?

While I agree with you point about cpu etc being important, so is the SSDs in these consoles. The io stuff alone is a game changer.

as for ratchet, there is no way that would run on current gen, never mind a ps3....come on man...be a bit more realistic.

"Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart is a game that utilizes dimensions and dimensional rifts, and that would not have been possible without the solid state drive of the PlayStation 5. The SSD is screamingly fast. It allows us to build worlds and project players from one place to another in near instantaneous speeds. It is an unbelievable game-changer in terms of, we can now do gameplay where you’re in one world and the next moment you’re in another.”

https://segmentnext.com/202...

[rainslacker]

Next gen raytracing is kind of a half step into the raytracing technique for gaming. Even the newer GPU's yet to release are only maybe 3/4 steps. Ray-tracing in it's full form, like they use for Pixar movies and the like,is quite involved, and still can't be done in real time using massive rendering farms.

What's done currently with games is sufficient given the level of power available to the consumer, but it's not what most people would cite as full ray tracing if they really use the technique to it's fullest. At least not say that it's what is fully capable to achieve....because technically it is RT.

But, that's OK for consoles, or even PC gamers, because it's become apparent not many people really understand what raytracing does anyways, nor really what to expect from the process. Reflections are a good way to exemplify the technique, but it's actually much more involved than that, and reflections can be done in ways that are not as taxing, although they'll be limited on their scope and quality. What'll be more impressive is the ray tracing that is more about how real light reflects or reacts to objects as a whole, and combining multiple sources into one, and have the object actually show that light the way it would be shown in real life, which will then have some sort of effect on other objects or light sources. Something that will still be done through more traditional lighting methods that we're already used to.

[RonsonPL]

@IRetrouk

(Why I don't have REPLY button on your messages?)

""So all the devs saying the SSDs will allow new gameplay, features and designs are making it up? Including microsofts devs?""

Give me quotes. Loading times and bigger locations are not significant gameplay changes. This is not gameplay-related. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand what devs say and what SSDs will bring to the table, especially when the mess with latency is taken care of. I know PC tech stuff, no worries.

SSD being a game changer.

No. SSD is not a game changer. It is a game changer for very specific things, which won't matter or even exist in majority of games.

""as for ratchet, there is no way that would run on current gen, never mind a ps3....come on man...be a bit more realistic.""

I didn't say it would look the same. Read my mesasge again. I've said the graphics would have to be changed in order for it to fit in the RAM alone, without SSD fetching the data. I meant just the gameplay mechanic. It was possible without SSD. The raytracing takes RAM. The realistic lighting and materials take up to 6x as much as the "non-realistic" ones. And this game seriously can stay away from realism without any harm. I mean, come on. It's R&C, you cannot go much more unrealistic if you wanted to.
Assume the level in PS3 had to fit in 400MB. Two levels of this quality is 800MB. You really think it's not possible to get this running on PS5 with its 12GB of RAM? It would still have enough RAM to make it look nice. And it would be even possible on PS4. Less data could go nicely with higher framerate, which is a real game changer, unlike SSD or this portal mechanics.

[Kavorklestein]

Ratchet and Clank does not need an SSD to make those world jumps happen, and we don't have any proof that it even uses the SSD to do those scenes.
Any platformer game could do that honestly if the devs wanted to.

[one2thr]

Um no, those were entire levels[Allegedly] being loaded in within a few frames.

Something like that on todays tech, requires a load screen.

[IRetrouk]

The devs literally said it was only possible because of the ssd, take you head out your ass and stop making crap up man, starting to look desperate now to be honest.

"Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart is a game that utilizes dimensions and dimensional rifts, and that would not have been possible without the solid state drive of the PlayStation 5. The SSD is screamingly fast. It allows us to build worlds and project players from one place to another in near instantaneous speeds. It is an unbelievable game-changer in terms of, we can now do gameplay where you’re in one world and the next moment you’re in another.”

https://segmentnext.com/202...

[Kavorklestein]

@one2thr yes I agree. Allegedly is the right word.
@IRetrouk You don't know what I mean. I know the SSD is Faster than the Series X. Doesn't mean it is ONLY possible cuz of SSD.
I look at Titanfall 2, when we used the time travel mechanic, that showed no sign of affecting framerates or performance. Sure there were a few jumps in Ratchet, not just switching 1 back and forth so it's got obviously More going than Titanfall 2. But I'm saying, if a specific mission or sequence was DESIGNED to allow us to jump more than one time, or to have multiple worlds to jump to, then I still believe it could be done on current gen hardware.
Sorry you're not gonna convince me without system breakdowns that PROVE it could only be done with an SSD.
Because logically when thinking about the developers goal, and that when putting all the work into the entire sequence, all the planning required to make sure that when you press X on the controller to make Ratchet jump, and then he magically continues his fall directly onto a rail perfectly in another "dimension" or when you are sliding down glass windows on a sci fi building for a few seconds, and it becomes a waterfall in the next dimension, that that visual sequence is going to be streamlined and designed to "appear" like you are going thru or warping thru multiple worlds and dimensions. But you really aren't. There has got to be some huge tricks put in place to make it APPEAR like you are going thru multiple worlds.
From what we've seen, They are probably nothing more than slices. Meaning they are scenes, interactive scenes to move around in while the scene changes around the character. This means They aren't fully open worlds where you are going to go 2 miles off into the distance to explore and then have another 20 fully fleshed worlds to explore. If you ask me, Unless the player gets to choose (for example, using a quick select radial wheel or shoulder buttons or something) exactly which world to jump to, and unless the player gets to choose exactly how short or long to stay in that world, then when the "warp" happens, it's nothing more than a highly scripted and visually varied scene. A scene being rendered behind the scenes in a specific sequence, according to the plans the devs created for that specific pursuit or race, or flight, or chase scene, but the worlds are not fully fleshed out and they are not truly real time... It's a slice chosen for a scene or sequence.
And that could be done on current hardware. Period.
Unless you can see and track an object or npc's movement between warps and see them exactly where they should be when you jump 2, 3, or 4, or 7 times, and come back again, OR unless you can control and compare the jumps, and fully roam and jump freely, then it is clearly designed according to follow a sequence or scene. Sequences have been done in engine before, chase scenes have had lost of tricks used to make them varied because they are more or less on rails. This looks to be on rails, and allow character movement.
Now at the end of it all, we have the next question... Is jumping around like that actually gonna add something significant and meaningful to the game or gameplay? Cuz if we don't actually get to spend more than a few seconds in each section then I'm just gonna be frustrated that I can't stay longer in the futuristic sci-fi city, and that I'm stuck in the Grassy hills and butterflies world instead.

It's nifty and its visually cool and all, and I love the Ratchet games, but unless there is a real reason for it to be part of the core gameplay besides "oh no! the space time rift is collapsing!" And causing me to run thru the world and platform thru the sections that change then I don't really see what is so special/important about it.

[IRetrouk]

Not trying to convince you of anything, just repeating what the devs have said, also I didnt mention the xboxs ssd at all, not sure why you felt the need to add that, has nothing to do with our discussion 🤷‍♂️.
I'm just giving you what the devs are saying that directly contradicts what you are. You said we have no proof an ssd is needed for r&c, or even that it's being used, I gave you a direct link to one of the devs telling you it is and that you are wrong, like it, dont🤷‍♂️

You cant say you dont believe the developers or what they have specifically told us and then go off on a tirade of reasons you have just made up for why the ssd is in fact not needed, why are you right and the devs are wrong? What games have you designed or developed🤔

[Kavorklestein]

@IRetro
Dude, I'm just not gonna believe what they say. They, as a company want to sell a product. They are gonna say whatever they want. I don't have to believe it is only possible cuz of an SSD. I can think what I want.

And to be honest, MS isn't saying stuff can only be done with an SSD. Devs are talking about the SSD' because it probably makes their jobs easier.
Also, If anything, MS is actually saying that much of the new stuff can be done on older or weaker hardware, just with lower fidelity.
And I agree with their statement, until I see proof otherwise. I think this is an example of Insomniac creating slices to help hype an SSD because that's what Sony wants... to sell consoles, and Insomniac wants it to help sell copies of the game.
And it's fine, not a bad idea, and I'm not gonna lose sleep over it. And you shouldn't either.
I'm excited to PLAY Ratchet and Clank regardless. But I'm not so easily convinced that the SSD's are so important. Frankly, I think I'd rather have a 3 tb internal HDD than an SSD cuz I'm still waiting for a breakdown of what the SSD does besides help with loading times and open world draw distances/pop-in or reduce redundancy for assets etc.. etc..

Still Haven't seen a radical example of something that ONLY AN SSD could handle. At the end of the day, even if the SSD doesn't do much besides make it easier for devs, speed load times, help with asset streaming to the GPU, and like on Xbox, quick resume or swap games in a jiffy, then that's okay, I'm not trying to convince YOU or argue with you either. You replied to me saying my head was up my ass.
I gave a very detailed breakdown of what I believe is going on with Ratchet and Clank. That's MY opinion.
You don't have to agree with me or care.

[IRetrouk]

Again, not trying to convince you of anything, I'm pointing out things you said that contradict what the devs have said, like it or dont, agree or dont, that's fine, but if you say stuff expect others to dispute it, like it or not, a devs word is way more believable than a forum user, whether they want to sell their new game or not.

Ms have stated more than once how important the ssd and io work is...you want links?

Also the medium is next gen only, their devs also say it's because the game is only possible with the xboxs ssd, it's also been in an article or two on n4g, are they also wrong?

[IRetrouk]

And just to be clear, I only said you have your head up your ass because of your original statment.

"Ratchet and Clank does not need an SSD to make those world jumps happen, and we don't have any proof that it even uses the SSD to do those scenes."

You wrote that as fact, I provided a link to a dev that proves what you said is wrong, you then proceeded to double down on your assertions, while talking like they were fact, which again is fine but contradict what devs are actually saying, you also keep mentioning ms, not really sure why to be honest🤷‍♂️

You also said any platformer could do what we seen......crazy talk.

[Kavorklestein]

@Retro.
Yes. I believe the Medium Devs may just be hyping up the SSD's as well.
The only things we KNOW have real performance benefits for graphics the RAM, CPU, and GPU's in these machines. The SSD can help load those assets into memory, or into the other components faster than before.
Even still, I don't see anything yet that makes me feel like I needed an SSD
to achieve what I'm seeing for any upcoming game. Maybe that will change with time. I do know The Quick Resume on Series X seems nifty, and I suppose load times being faster on Xbox and PS5 sure doesn't hurt, so I'm not bashing them for using SSDs, but I'd rather have a 3 or 4 tb internal drive instead if I had a choice... UNLESS these devs show me proof that the SSD is in fact what makes it possible.
Ms and Sony have a lot to prove.
The Medium Dev IS just hyping the SSD in my opinion.
Insomniac however is taking something that doesn't really look that difficult at all, and saying it is only possible with an SSD. Just because they are "WARPING" doesn't mean the Character actually went to an new world. The scenery probably was just changed around them. Likely Loaded behind the scenes while Ratchet walked closer towards an objective/waypoint and then the sequence starts... and then the exact sequence plays out. Or maybe a handful of "possible sequences" That are randomized.
Until I see more or get a detailed breakdown of how it works, then I don't believe it's anything spectacular or needs a blazing fast SSD to accomplish. Mayne it makes it EASIER? But that doesn't necessarily mean it's only Possible with an SSD.

If Ratchet's worlds are truly open worlds that are fully detailed and explorable, and have many things you can do at your own pace, and jumps you can do ay your own pace or timing, then it's nothing more than an interactive cutscene, a distaction to help load the next scene/scenes, in essence.

I don't have to be a game dev to know that it's a good idea to visually stun people and wow them. And I don't have to be a game dev to tell the difference between what they say is happening, and what is more than likely happening behind the scenes.

Now if I'm wrong, then great!
I'll be very excited if these worlds are actually really there and are fully explorable and able to be loaded at the drop of a hat. I just don't believe it is the case.
Probably just visual tricks and design choices make it appear like you warped somewhere else, briefly, an action filled cutscene on rails.
People don't have to be developers to know that there is a difference between what CAN be shown visually on a screen, and a fully detailed and explorable world being rendered in an instant.
We just haven't seen enough and/or they haven't specifically shown enough to confirm what they are claiming is more than a cutscene of sorts.
Devs seem to like these SSD's cuz they make their jobs easier. Faster and IO read/write speeds help them put their ideas on the screen easier with less redundancy, and probably less optimization.

Doesn't mean I believe everything MS and SONY are trying to sell us tho, or that I believe everything they are Paying devs to tell us.

[IRetrouk]

Look I cant dissagree with scepticism, it's a healthy thing to have, but I do honestly believe the likes of r&c and the medium really are doing things the older consoles just cant do with their new memory systems, I'm excited for these next gen systems, this gen has went on too long for me personally, even with the mid gen upgrades.

[Kavorklestein]

@ Retro
Fair enough.
I'm not bashing you at all for being excited. Notice I never made it personal.
I am glad You are excited, I am too. I am just being skeptical until we see more.
I wanna take devs at their word, but I've seen enough about how the world works to know most ideas and hype need to be taken with a grain of salt I suppose.

I personally hope I am wrong, but I kinda want to see the proof in the pudding on a comprehensive level.

I kind of wish devs would show us breakdowns of what they are doing. I like geeking out with Digital Foundry Videos and wish there were more in depth breakdowns from the devs themselves. Maybe as unlockable developer diaries when we beat a game? Or a deep dive that shows the side by side performance changes on each version of a game from a performance standpoint, and what the devs themselves had to do to get to that level.
That stuff could always be faked too I suppose.... Damn.
Idk my whole point for going off on a tangent was to make sure you understood why I think there isn't always such painstaking and revolutionary work being done on a certain scene.
They say "work smarter and not harder" so I think tricks are definitely used in games all the time.
If the SSD's really are what they say, and really are what makes it all possible, then that's fantastic.
I'd rather them be telling the truth, than buy something expensive as part of a console that is more or less just an extra convenience perk for me or the devs.
I'd rather not be sold to, telling me it is essential for a game to run.

I'm hoping these consoles live up to the hype, big time.

[IRetrouk]

I apologise for my bluntness, it can come off as disrespectful and I honestly dont mean my comments that way, I can see your point of view and dont dissagree with your thought process at all, I guess I just tend to believe the likes of insomniac as I've spent a long time playing their stuff, either way, we find out before Christmas lol.

[Kavorklestein]

No worries dude!
It happens. I'm not worried about it,
To be honest this was a fairly decent exchange back and forth, especially for N4G! LOL
I like Insomiac too for sure.
I liked Sunset overdrive crazily enough Even tho many others didn't.
I've played almost all the Ratchet and Clank Games so far and this one looks beautiful and fun.

I really really didn't wanna come off rude either, just wanted to fully explain my view on it all.
Thanks for reading all my thoughts and staying rather civil.
I hope these consoles live up to the hype, and that we will be able to get our hands on them in a timely manner with no Shortages.
Cheers man, and Happy Gaming.

[ForwardDude]

I can feel the salt of your tears on my skin. Please stop being a soy boy for once and admit PS5 has a next gen SSD and Xbox honeslty don't.

[Kaze88]

"I look at Titanfall 2, when we used the time travel mechanic, that showed no sign of affecting framerates or performance. Sure there were a few jumps in Ratchet, not just switching 1 back and forth so it's got obviously More going than Titanfall 2. But I'm saying, if a specific mission or sequence was DESIGNED to allow us to jump more than one time, or to have multiple worlds to jump to, then I still believe it could be done on current gen hardware."

So very strict linear corridor slice of a game that uses 80% of the same assets and there is not a lot going on (around 10 enemies max at any point + only couple moments you can see people running on a lobby in the next room) is compared to a game that loads totally different assets with filled backgrounds as far as the eye can see, with pedestrians/cars/animals and enemies around 3 seconds and does this same for 5-6 times in a row + looks graphically more impressive than Titanfall 2 (love that game btw)....definitely was not using any new hardware or an SSD to pull that of....yeah, sure.

Press X to doubt.

[C-H-E-F]

@kavorklestein, Don't believe everything you read on the internet bro. Also, spend more time learning about COMMON SENSE, I know that is a lost trait in society today.

[Kavorklestein]

@C-H-E-F
I DON'T believe everything I read on the internet. Duh.
Exactly why I wanna see the info and the proof before I simply believe something a dev says. I fully am on board when saying the graphical fidelity of the New ratchet and clank is impressive, and Horizon 2 looks even MORE impressive. But then again these graphical advancements are what we expect from the PS5. I'm not bashing the PS5, or anybody. I'm just looking for more substantial proof that the SSD is actually doing something besides load fast. I'm not looking for on rails cut scenes being passed off as "seperate worlds" which is what appears to be what we've seen so far. Unreal Engine 5 demo was much the same way. The part where the character is exploring sure seems legit. It's the most stunning Graphical stuff I've ever seen done in an engine. By far. But the part where she flies around at the end seems like an on-rails interactive style cutscene and not actual free play. Combine the fact that there is only one character on screen and the entire Demo only has to draw the world and the 1 character in it, on rails, with a little freedom to maneuver her around during flight, then who knows what we actually saw?
Still looked stunning, it would seriously be amazing if games have the potential to end up looking that beautiful. But that's not my point.
I'm remaining skeptical of anything I am shown from next gen. From Xbox and PS5. I want to see the real data and details for myself, or being broken down and explained for ultimate transparency. To be honest, many next gen games we have seen DO actually look really stunning. I just want more. Even if all the games coming out use clever tricks to achieve what they are doing, as long as it looks good, then I won't really care in the end. So don't worry, I'm not in need of common sense.
More infirmation and data is all I need. I am more than capable of detailing my initial impressions of these recent game trailers, and I fully fleshed out my explanation for what I think could be done to make a game look like real time jumps between worlds.
My thoughts make sense, and I'am bother to diss or bash anyone or anything. That's why Me and another person were able to have a rather civil conversation about it all.
I always make plenty of sense.
I'm not worried about what anyone thinks of me or my opinions anyway though.
I already know My thoughts and opinions are far beyond what most people can even follow along with or understand. That is THEIR issue, not mine. I have the ability to understand and dissect and analyze far more than most people I've ever known, let alone
think, let alone coherently type.
I'll be the first to say WOW when I see something being broken down or fully explained. If the proof I'm looking for ever comes to light then I'll eat my words.
But until then, my hunches and guesses are more logically sound than just believing everything a dev says blindly. No matter who that developer is.

[rainslacker]

The dev said that the SSD was required to design that game that way. I'm not sure what proof that they could provide that would appease your claim, because you can't prove a negative.

If you can make something like that work to prove you're right, then go right ahead. But claiming that the dev is lying because they can't prove it is not really a strong way to back up your claim.

If any game could do that now if the dev wanted to, at least that fast, why is it that we still have masked loading times, or long load screens for levels? Are you saying up to this point, not a single dev has been able to manage it, or even try? That seems rather implausible, because any dev that could manage to do that would have a technology that is more valuable than any game they could make. Hell, loading that much data from a standard hard drive that fast would have ramifcations on the entirety of technology, from hardware, software, up to data transfer on the internet. We're not talking being worth millions, bot billions, but being worth trillions. You have no idea how much data you're talking about sending at that speed with nothing more than software, on what is a rather modest hardware set up.

Since that hasn't happened either in gaming, or in general purpose computing where people dedicate themselves to do nothing but trying to figure out how to lessen bandwidth between systems, i'd say that maybe it's more likely that Insomniac was just telling the truth.

So, we're faced with two choices.

1. Believe Insomniacs claim that what they specifically showed to show off the SSD tech actually did require SSD because no other evidence suggests that it's possible otherwise.
2. Believe some random internet guy on a modest forum site who says it's possible without SSD because he thinks he knows, and needs proof to believe, despite providing absolutely no proof of his own, or giving one example where it's even been tried.

Tough choice really.

Be careful what you claim to think you know. There are things in the works that show things being streamed in as fast as you can turn the camera....which is basically at the speed the GPU processes a frame. You can only hold onto your theory for so long before you end up looking foolish.

[Bobertt]

Ray tracing is overrated. Its just Nvidia and Amd pushing it down everyone's throat so they can charge more. It's clearly not ready for games and even when it does work its not worth the performance loss. It looks cool when you first see it but after a while you don't even pay attention to it in most games. I would of preferred they focus on improving VR cause that's more useful in the long run.

[Kavorklestein]

I agree to an extent.
I'd rather not take the performance hit for something so negligible.
And for sound, I swear that companies always have some new gimmick to sell sound devices and peripherals to us, and have done so for decades. Games have sounded good enough for almost 3 gens in a row.
If it's all about power, why potentially cut it in half for better puddles, God Rays, and sound?
Oh well. Maybe there will be something that really makes it all worth it. So far, I'm kinda like "We'll see."

[XBManiac]

Because Ray Tracing sells now... every generation of consoles there is a catch for some consumers and this one it is RT.

[Saijahn]

Reflections add to the realism of a game. So while I agree that there are more important features for next gen, mainly making 60fps the standard on both platforms, both companies see raytracing as an integral part of the next wave of gaming capabilities.

[NotoriousWhiz]

If Ray tracing is so taxing, why even use it? I'll gladly take 60fps over ray tracing. Every single time.

[SierraGuy]

Raytracing is overrated I agree 100%.

[XxINFERNUSxX]

RTX 3000 series will be coming. Preview build hmmm, needs more time but I doubt it will change the performance much. Ray tracing is still not ready yet. This should be on ultra 4k/60fps not to struggle at 1080p/60fps pretty pathetic. I have a 2070 Super will be upgrading to the new 3000 series but not so much about ray tracing, it's more about how much more FPS I can achieve.

[SegaGamer]

Even when the official game is released, with RTX 3000 series and a new driver for performance optimisation, I still don't think the game will run amazing. Ubisoft's open world games are terrible when it comes to optimisation.

[XxINFERNUSxX]

Yeah, Ubisoft is not putting enough effort to take advantage of the RTX cards. Again, all this power yet here we are with sub-par performance.

[phoenixwing]

I find it funny you're upgrading to 3000 series and I just bought the 2070 super online lol. All I wanted was something that could run next gen games at 1440p and be around 60fps.

[XxINFERNUSxX]

Yeah I don't know LOL I got my Super in Nov of 2019 but I feel like I just wanna upgrade :D And sell my super to https://sellgpu.com/ I usually send my older gpus/cpus there. As I don't like to wait around for ebay buy it now or bids :D Your more than fine for 1440p/60ps or even more than 60fps. Me I have an Alienware - AW2518H 240hz gsync. It's 1080p but I still want a faster GPU to push more FPS in future games ^)^

[phoenixwing]

Good luck on the 3000 series I hope your frame rates are buttery smooth and the gpu not overpriced too high (we both know Nvidia will price them a little high though lol)

[XxINFERNUSxX]

Thanks. :D The Super was 499$ at the time I bought it. I know they will launch their higher end models then move down to the lower end ones first. Because paying over $1,000 for the 2080 ti and not getting the performance it was made to do is pathetic really LOL. nVidia needs to do better and step it up.

[Magatsuhi]

Lol it's ubisoft. Nothing to see here folks.

[phoenixwing]

shouldn't this read more along the lines of DEV BEING LAZY also this basically tells me it will run like crap on everything. add in the fact they delayed this game you have to wonder just how bad it would have played if it wasn't delayed earlier

[Shalawsorchi]

That’s why console will always be the best choice for the most gamers out there, it’s cheaper, can run 4K which looks better, the only thing is missing is higher fps which don’t really unless you like to play online FPS games.

[Shiore2u]

Which console? Xbox One X only supports 'true' 4k with a handful of titles and PS4 uses a checkerboard method that looks worse than native 1440p on PC. A reminder you're using this as an argument for a game, a ubisoft game at that, which is clearly not in an even remotely optimized state as of yet in it's development at ultra settings.

[IRetrouk]

How can a 1440p or 1800p image upscaled look worse than a straight 1440p image on pc? Makes absolutely no sense.

[Shiore2u]

@IRetrouk Is that a serious question? 1440p/1080p upscaled looks meh on a 4K tv. You're stretching a 1080/1440p image across a 4k pixel radius, this produces artifacting which leaves a result less crisp than at native resolution. The bicubic filtering implemented makes the aliasing quite noticeable from objects nearer or farther away too. Compared to a monitor running a game at native 4k resolution, even that close to you still get a crispier result.

[IRetrouk]

Again I will ask, how does a native 1440p signal look better than a 1440p or 1800p(not1080p) signal upscaled to 4k?

[RazzerRedux]

DF explicitly said that they could only tell the difference between a single image from the 1440p UE5 demo image and the same image in lossless "true" 4k, that was provided by Epic for comparison, by magnifying the 1440p image in Photoshop. This is because of the advanced techniques being used in modern games. Hanging your hat on resolutions is not a good tactic. DF called this the "post resolution" era.

https://youtu.be/zCllBRdyEX...

[CaptainHenry916]

This is the reason why I'm waiting for the RTX 3000 series. They are made for 4K 60fps. But Ubisoft optimization on PC games does suck

[cyclindk]

Well this might run on next gen consoles at 1080p or more and 60 fps with ray tracing... just have to bump down crap ton of other settings.. textures, draw distance, number of NPCs and whatnot. It’s always about balance, optimization or not.

[MusashiBlack]

Turing will not age well.

[FlameWater]

Make Ray Tracing a side option then gather the data to see who is actually using it

[Sirk7x]

All these AAA games are going to run 30fps next gen, because they will all prioritize graphical effects over framerate, as graphics sell their games on the mass market. Exceptions will probably be first party. Performance doesn't make money. It's going to be like this until AI is making all our games for us in the future.

[QuePasa87]

No ultra with a top of the line card at 1080p? Pathetic

[dumahim]

??
Almost everything was set to ultra except DLSS.

[FanboySpotter]

Games on PC aren't ever as optimized as consoles. Then you add on to it that it's ubisoft and you get these results. You'll probably have better performance on ps5 and xsx with some ray tracing.

[djplonker]

Next gen is expected to be priced around the £500 mark

The graphics card used to run the game costs £1200 on its own.

Tuning the engine on a fiat does not make it preform better than a ferrari.

[menghina]

Poor Ubisoft , 2 games and maybe 3 with Far Cry 6 we don't know much about it and all of them 30fps...just like this gen with AC Black Flag and so on 30fps (ofc we did not had the CPU for 60fps but still some devs did 60fps in much more impressive games).Oh well , I'm ok with 30fps but we need to move on 60fps feels so much better.

[ic3fir3]

years before the game looks amazing day one because is all.true graphics.
today you dont see a big diference between generations because resolution, fps, now ray tracing blabla, this things only do power hungry.

only need 1080p or 2k 60fps and true graphics, the rest is mainstream only for marketing and power hungry

[Father__Merrin]

Go check Artis YouTube 2080ti 1080p assassin's creed origins running about in Alexandria it just hits 60 and 70 and 1440p hits 55 to 70. Unisoft need to look at this I think they put too much ai in city locations looks like watchdogs is no exception. Lesser GPU struggle

[TheHateTheyGive]

What kind of gpu is inside ps5 and series x?

[MightyHealthy]

Saw that, rt is extremely taxing with these current cards.
Rumors say ampere cards wont take a porfor.ance hit w raytraving on

[1nsomniac]

DLSS is completely disabled. So it’ll easily hit 60+ enabled.

[DeadManMMX]

So a preview build is unoptimized. Who knew?

[ybadr]

Nothing to brag out, optimize your game

[MADGameR]

This is embarrassing for PC users LOL!! But I know that Ubisoft has a history of just REALLY BAD optimization. Heck my GTX1070 runs Devil May Cry 3 (a game from 2 generations ago) at 30FPS. Goes to show how terrible Ubisoft is but THIS... LMAO THIS is on a whole new level of bad.

[RazzerRedux]

Why would PC users be embarrassed about this again? The fact that RT is enormously taxing on GPUs is not new.

Devil May Cry 3 isn't a Ubisoft game at all. If your GPU is running that game at 30fps then you've got other problems.

[Hedstrom]

Ubisofts games are almost always booring! Series like Watchdogs, Assassins creed and Far cry just does not resonate with me on the fun level!

[Hedstrom]

I dont think RTX make that much difference for the graphical fidelity of game!

[XBManiac]

If you want to run at more fps, you only need to lower the number and precision of rays but... will it be better than other non RT solutions? I doubt it.

[gannzk]

Big oof. I wonder if ubisoft ever start optimizing their games.

[Master-Tonberry]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Developers will NOT be targeting 4K + raytracing at 60fps on either the XBSX or the PS5 for the vast majority of titles, particularly multi-platform and cross-gen titles.
12TF is not enough to achieve it for more graphically intensive games, it will however be possible for less demanding titles like racing games for example.
Some first party exclusives might pull it off, but that will require bespoke engines created specifically to make use of everything that specific platform has to offer. Also multiplayer games/modes as they tend to have the graphics dialed back to hit a stable 60fps.

4K/30 is here to stay on consoles for a while yet, unless the consoles get their own version of DLSS.... that could change things.

[Imortus_san]

For f_cks sake Ubi Soft, just make proper and optimized games.

[GamesAsAService]

Ya, Ubisoft does not optimize their games well for the PC platform. Every game I have on pc from Ubisoft does not run well. It is a shame.

The gains that could be had by making optimization a primary focus would be remarkable. IF their goal is to get as many people playing their games as possible, then having the games being capable of running well on lower spec'd hardware is a must.

[2ndhandcorn]

Just seen the new flightsim trailer omg wow , never tried this series may find out a blt more info.

[FlavorLav01]

I’m not going to use a $1200 graphic card to run 1080p@60. RT can kiss my @ss. It’s nice and all, but not at the cost of frame rate and resolution performances. It’s a big deal, but RT needs efficiency before we should expect or want this feature baked into every game.

[C-H-E-F]

Ubisoft - If it runs, then its optimized.

[ASSASSYN]

This doesn't mean much without knowing the full PC specs running a preview build which probably want optimized.

[ccgr]

Ouch....

[Wotbot]

It doesn’t even look that great.

[Dragonopolis]

I doubt Ubisoft is targeting the 2080ti specifically. This is a unoptimized version that probably won't be fully targeted at such a specific higher card or it won't run on AMD Graphic Cards very well and alienate a few lower end / older Nvidia card owners....

The devs can never fully optimize a PC game because of the diversity of GPUs as well as CPUs.

When making a console game the Devs have the option to squeeze every optimization out of a specific GPU and CPU setup because it is well known that everyone has the exact same hardware setup so no compatibility issues to deal with.

That is why occassionally we get a dev studio willing to go the extra mile or two and bring us a game that normally wouldn't exist on the hardware that is out of date. PS4 and Xbox brought us close but not quite up to PC on hardware 7 to 4 years old roughly depending on model and how you look at the time line.

I Believe this generation of consoles will bring us mostly on par with PC gaming graphically.... However...

Should there be that one or couple few Dev studios that decide to do the hard work and truly optimize on PS5 and XSX; this gen could see a couple CONSOLE games surpassing PC visually and doing so at a much cheaper price than a PC MIGHT be able to match.

Just don't expect it to often or even at all for next gen Consoles since there are no promises.

[Tex4242]

I wouldnt worry right now. It's a PREVIEW BUULD and those are usually older versions. We will just have to wait and see.