Legendary Dev Carmack Agrees that PS5 SSD Setup is ‘a Big Deal’

PlayStationing writes: "A few days ago Epic Games released the demo called Lumen which was running on it's new Unreal Engine 5 on PlayStation 5. Tim Sweeney went on to explain on Twitter why the SSD mattered so much in the PS5. Now, industry legend John Carmack, formerly of id Software and now Oculus VR, has agreed."

[THC CELL]

Ohh this will sting. But from the legend him self he agreeing nice

[Jin_Sakai]

“It looks like Cerny has taken the PS5 in a unique direction that PCs may not be able to emulate for a few years it seems.”

Sony Worldwide Studios are going to do amazing things with PS5. Can’t wait!

[lalalala]

Does seem to make a huge difference have a developer lead on the design of the console. I think Cerny learned a lot from PS4 design issues and that's why PS5 has gone in such a different direction.

[Giblet_Head]

I don't get that quote from the article, not at all what Carmack is implying in his response and correction toward Tim Sweeney. Lol.

[Eonjay]

Xbox works harder.
PS5 works smarter.
Expect great results across the board.

[Mr_Writer85]

" I think Cerny learned a lot from PS4 design issues"

What issues?

[bouzebbal]

i was telling all folks out there that PS5 has some futureproof tech, and i like that they dont play it too safe at every gen. Some innovation is always cool, and not only on the CPU because tech becomes irrelevant and obsolete at some point.

[Kribwalker]

i don’t see your quote in the article, or in any of his tweets. Can you provide a link to your quote

[LOGICWINS]

@Mr_Writer85

1) PS4 Pro's fan ran loud as hell to keep the system cool (Cerny himself publicly admitted this was an issue)

2) PS4 Pro not being able to run HDR games and Chroma 4:4:4 at the same time, preventing you from experiencing a full spectrum of colors while playing in HDR.

If Sony can fix these issues with the PS5....all the credit in the world to them.

[darthv72]

Carmack... i hear he is all the rage and has caused a quake or two in the industry. Nice to see he all positive about next gen instead of all doom and gloom.

[frostypants]

Why are you inventing quotes? C'mon now.

[Unspoken]

Funny Cerny is seen as the Messiah when AMD, nVidia, and MS have been working on this tech for years and GPU manufactures specifically worked on getting their GPUs access to SSD.

[morganfell]

MS working on this tech for years? You mean trying to force direct X down everyone's throat for decades.

[xer0]

@Eonjay ... this has to be my favourite quote :D

Xbox works harder.
PS5 works smarter.

[WelkinCole]

Lol that is the best translation. No matter how good your hardware is. In the end its talent/people that matters the most. Sony has the peopl/talent

[fr0sty]

@logicwins PS4 Pro can render HDR at 4:4:4 chroma subsampling just fine, but the HDMI 2.0 spec doesn't support 4:4:4 YUV color resolution at 4k60fps. Any movie or video you've ever seen in HDR was delivered at 4:2:0 chroma sub-sampling. I produce HDR videos for a living. Many HDR TVs don't support 4:4:4 either since they only have HDMI 2.0.

4:4:4 is increasing the chroma sub-sampling resolution, it isn't reducing the number of colors that can be achieved. You'll get a slightly sharper, purer looking image at 4:4:4, but every DVD, TV show, Blu-Ray, Netflix, etc video you've ever seen, even HDR, is all produced at 4:2:0. Our eyes can't usually distinguish between the two, which is why there isn't a huge push to increase it vs. resolution, dynamic range, or bit depth.

[Mr_Writer85]

@logic

But how do developers have influence on the design of the actual console?

When he mentioned developers I thought he was talking about the architecture design of the PS4. Not the actual console.

As far as I'm aware developers found the PS4 easy to use. I wasn't aware of any issues (unlike the Cell)

I may have misread what he meant.

[DJStotty]

Is that a personal quote? Because Carmack did not quote this.

[Jin_Sakai]

@Kribwalker

“i don’t see your quote in the article, or in any of his tweets. Can you provide a link to your quote“

@frostypants

“Why are you inventing quotes? C'mon now.”

https://ibb.co/1n9rq8d

[itsmebryan]

@eonjay
"Xbox works harder.
PS5 works smarter.
Expect great results across the board."

I think you have it backwards. The PS4 is working harder that's why it only reach a variable 10.28 tflops in boost mode. It's since it's a boost mode it probably can't run that speed long without overstressing the system and overheating . The normal non boost tflops level is lower.

So, the PS5 is working harder and is still behind the XSX non boosted non variable 12 TFLOPS .

The PS5 is like a high strung Turbo 4 cylinder against the more powerful XSX V8 with effortless power .

I really think Sony add boost mode after see XSX specs because they were caught off guard.

[Jin_Sakai]

“The PS5 is like a high strung Turbo 4 cylinder against the more powerful XSX V8 with effortless power.”

XSX is a V8 with no gas. Gas being exclusives.

PS5 exclusives will be on another level, especially considering they don’t have to worry about last gen consoles with ancient CPUs and slow as molasses HDD.

[leoms]

I know two parties out there who will say he's lying lmao. I wouldn't be surprised if he get threats.

[anubusgold]

That last engine he made before he left ID wasnt that great.

[shuvam09]

@anubusgold
Exactly...
It would've been great though had they had the ssd technology back then ;)
Do you even realize that with such transfer speeds, megatextures would've taken a lot of load off the GPU at the cost of space??
Uncompressed texture was a novel idea that was ahead of it's time...
Now it's time to play smart B)

[CaptainHenry916]

Sounds like the secret sauce was a good idea 😂

[sinspirit]

You're on some secret sauce if you keep being so petty to copy/paste the same message in every article without any coherent statement to disprove the benefits.

[Sunny_D]

Oh boy captainhenry in the stage of denial. He won’t even listen to actual developers. 🤣

[anubusgold]

@sinspirit Pc can use a pcie expansion card and raid two 1 tb 4.0 drives and be faster than ps 5. Also SSD makers just announced that the second gen pci 4.0 drives will soon come out and im pretty sure they will be faster than the 4.9 speed drives we had for a whole year on x570 boards there are 61 SSD drives on newegg to chose from now that are pcie 4.0 and have speeds between 4.8 and 5.0..

[Kribwalker]

Agreed it’s gonna sting some. He’s basically telling us the SSD is super fast at moving data, but the “GPU Driver” also known as the GPU, still dominates. Meaning, it doesn’t matter how fast the ssd is, if the gpu can’t keep up 🤷

[GamerRN]

So basically better to have a bigger gpu... Interesting

[sinspirit]

Oh well

[S2Killinit]

Who said the gpu cant keep up?

[caddytrek]

That's not what he's saying. The GPU is hardware the GPU driver is the software that tells the GPU how to process the data.

[Kribwalker]

@caddytrek
the GPU driver (software API) writes directly to the feature-set and capabilities of the GPU. A good example of this would be PS5's primitive shaders (RDNA 1.0 and slower ) Vs Series X Mesh Shaders (RDNA 2.0 feature and Faster) or Direct X Raytracing (Exclusive to DX12 Ultimate and not on PS5 GPU) as well as VRS ( Xbox Exclusive feature) so while you’re technically correct that GPU driver refers to the software powering the GPU, it's more true that the GPU driver only works to the feature-set of the GPU itself - and if the GPU doesn't have these efficiency features then the driver cannot write to them therefore back to square 1 ( The PS5 GPU works Slower)

[caddytrek]

You said this.

but the “GPU Driver” also known as the GPU

Then you agreed with me the GPU is the hardware and the driver is the software, thus confirming your original statement was wrong.

How humble of you to admit you're wrong.

[Hakuoro]

The GPU reads data from RAM which is where the SSD puts the data. The SSD doesn't load information into the GPU it loads information into the RAM.

And I feel like I should point out that consoles use a shared pool of memory so both the CPU and the GPU read from the RAM so there is zero disadvantage to being able to fill RAM as fast as you can.

[CoinOrc]

@gamingtomarow
Yeah...no. https://www.google.com/amp/...

[OB1Biker]

'it doesn’t matter how fast the ssd is, if the gpu can’t keep up'
Haha I heard everything.
You can try all you want but the cat s out of the bag. The demo was running in real time on PS5 and it looks amazing.

[Hakuoro]

CoinOrc

What am I supposed to see in that?

If the SSD doesn't put data into ram then what is RAM for?

The RAM stores the textures and other data that the CPU and GPU then process. That's how the computational chain works.

[sinspirit]

@GamingTomarow

"If the SSD doesn't put data into ram then what is RAM for?"

Well, the SSD has RAM-like capability but that's limited. Current RAM is still so much faster that it's beneficial to keep using it. But, with this level of speed and throughput throughout the system, it can act like RAM for certain cases. Not viable replacement across the board. One step at a time.

[sinspirit]

@caddytrek

He also thinks that VRS is an XBox exclusive feature and goes out his way to state it 🤨

[Aenea]

Perhaps that is why MS didn't bother to use a faster SSD, their GPU can't keep up anyway due to all kinds of bottlenecks that Sony solved...

------
And your post below is full of nonsense!
- RDNA 1 primitive shaders, really?
- Direct X Raytracing is not on the GPU in the XSX either since that is a software thing...
- VRS is Xbox exclusive feature? oh really?

Got any sources for all these very bold claims?

PS5 GPU is RDNA2 as confirmed by Lisa Siu, hardware RT features DX RT is using are RDNA2 as well, so is VRS as far as I know. So claiming all these things while there's evidence against one and when there's absolutely no evidence for some others is silly and makes you come across as a silly fanboy...

[IRetrouk]

Primitive shaders are the same thing as mesh shaders.... you dont know which is faster or slower we have no comparisons other than the shader count, which would allow more of it to be used not speed anything up... also ps5s gpu works faster than the xboxs not the other way round, you only have to look at clock speeds to see that.

[rainslacker]

Doesn't matter how fast the GPU is if the amount of assets can't feed it. That's more relevant, because having a better GPU can be overcome by this scaling thing that Xbox fans seem to think is a magic key for everything. A GPU is more limited by available memory(assets) than a weaker GPU is limited when given access to virtually infinite assets when they're needed.

"the GPU driver (software API) writes directly to the feature-set and capabilities of the GPU"

No. The GPU driver, which is a hardware API, is an interface to couple the written code to the machine code of the GPU driver itself. It's just a set of codes which tells the compiler how to handle a function, and makes sure processes go to the hardware. It can either be to something like DirectX on PC, which writes it to an OS level, which then gets translated to the hardware, or have the code go directly to the hardware.

A GPU driver in a console is part of the overall SDK, and simply allows a game engine to access what is generally low level hardware so the developer doesn't have to do it directly. Once a game is built on console, the driver has no function. On PC, the driver also has no function except to tell the software to connect to whatever OS layer exists to handle the processing commands.

[Kribwalker]

@aenea
1. AMD PlayStation docs have referred only to primitive shaders (RDNA 1.0) 2. Direct X Ray Tracing is a component of Direct X (owned by Microsoft ) PlayStation uses Open GL so no Direct X RT. 3. VRS is patented and owned by Microsoft - it is only present under Direct X . Lisa Sui posted about PlayStation 5 RDNA 2.0 but when she did she put the laughing emoji

[Kribwalker]

@aenea
https://i.postimg.cc/c4x58h...

proof they are using primitive shaders (rdna 1 feature) and not mesh shaders (replaced primitive shaders in RDNA 2)

[Aenea]

@krib

It says that primitive shaders were introduced with RDNA 1, it does not say that they removed them from RDNA 2, now does it? That no one has talked about anything else does not mean a darn thing. They also not talked about checkerboard rendering being inside the GPU like with the Pro but you can bet your butt that it is in there otherwise BC won't work so well ;)

So not talking about things is not proof that it isn't there. We just don't know yet, to spout nonsense like you do and make it look like they are facts is so gosh darn silly!

Raytracing is done in the GPU, RDNA 2 has RT, look it up, evidence everywhere, DX RT is just the software API MS made to talk to the GPU's RT features. Sony can make their own API for it and am sure they did.

Also PS systems do usually not use OpenGL, they have their own custom APIs.

They, MS, have a VRS patent, yes, but it's called "Variable Rate Shading Based On Temporal Reprojection" that is not VRS itself but another implementation of it.

Also AMD has VRS patents and it's a feature of...... wait a minute, we know this! RDNA2!

------

It's so funny that with Sony if they don't talk about it it's proof that it's not in there, even tho MS did not mention certain things right away or some things not yet,like how many ACE's are in the XSX GPU? unknown, they haven't talked about it yet, so none then I suppose? Oh wait, nah, at least the same amount as the PS5 GPU, perhaps more, but if that were the case they would have made several tweets about it, they did not, that should tell you then that they do not have more than the PS5, etc.., etc.

It's all speculation, drawing conclusions with a fanboy hat on, and being regurgutated endlessly by the more fanatical fans.

-------

Funny also to see that the Xbox fans were finally content, they didn't do too many strange things, they knew they had the most powerful console of next gen, they were so happy! Then the presentation of MS which was gonna show the future of next gen gaming which was a major letdown, then followed by the UE5 demo running on a PS5 and wow, we are back to 2013!

Perhaps there is a hidden I/O block in the power brick? Or maybe I/O can be made faster using the power of the cloud? And that can then access the GPU instantly! Just like it can instantly absorb 100GB of data without needing to use any of the I/O in the system and it's restrictions!!!! /s

[Sitdown]

Sting for who?

[LordoftheCritics]

The headline is not what John Carmack is implying.

The war between MS and Sony is fought in a delusional battleground. That's right here.

[Zeref]

If you read what he actually wrote. He actually still says the GPU is much more important...

[Hakuoro]

If you can understand what he's talking about you would know that's not what he said.

[Zeref]

@GamingTomarow

Except that's literally what he's saying.

"you can bypass kernel buffers on PC with unbuffered IO. The GPU driver overhead still dominates."

In fact, i actually understated it a bit. He used the word "DOMINATES". So yeah...

[Hakuoro]

Ok, now without going to google explain what a kernel buffer is. Then explain what unbuffered IO means then explain the principals behind GPU driver overhead.

Then give us a short description of how the three factors interact to put the image on the monitor.

[Juvia]

Man, it will not stop being funny to me that Zeref is a literal villain in the anime series he is from.

And which side is he on? Xbox.

It's just so perfect.

[rainslacker]

Without using Google.....

Kernel Buffer: An area of the kernel that keeps information about where data is stored on a particular storage medium....typically, and in this case, the hard drive.

Unbueffered I/O: I/O that gets read or written to the disc without being stored in a cache or temporary area of memory before going to or from a storage medium....typically, and in this case, the hard drive.

GPU driver overhead: Not really a specific term that can be defined for looking up on google, but this would be the amount of extra processes put on a GPU process. So, lets say that GPU has to draw a set of vertices. For the GPU, all that's really needed is that it receives the data necessary to write them, and the process, by which to do so. The GPU hardware controller will handle which processes to do that, when the OS or program sends them that information. The overhead comes in as the call is being made by the CPU. In the case of PC, the software will call the OS, which will then access the driver protocol, which will then interpret the hardware protocol, and then spit out for the CPU what hardware code is required to run the code. That is overheard that doesn't exist on consoles under normal circumstances because the game engines or API's allow the software to send that directly to the CPU, or in some cases the GPU, without going through those extra steps.

When Carmack said the GPU driver overhead still dominates, he's saying that on PC, it still has a negative effect on the process of getting the information directly from the storage medium, because despite being able to get that info faster on PC in the right set ups, it still has to go through the OS layer process.

In general, when you see the word, "overhead" included in this context, it's not being used as a positive. The only time "overhead" is a positive, is when it's exclusion is being talked about.

[CH33S3]

Mr Carmack doesn't reference GPU power or speed or anything of the sort. He's talking about GPU overhead. You know? A driver set that's handled by the CPU? Said overhead still being a factor in throughput, even after the jump in performance from a switch to an unbuffered (bypassing the Kernel) feed? ON PC?

Now go back to reading the comments. Not one comment here contains even a modicum of understanding. Nothing to do with PS5 or XSX. Yet the comments are all just painful fanboy BS.

So I guess you're right. It stings. Infact the comments don't just sting. They're downright painful!

Edit: Just had to change "Kerbal" to "kernel". Autocorrect FTFL!

[norwood40]

If you can get your Kerbals on the Mun you win the game though heh...

[rainslacker]

In general, overhead is never talked about as a good thing in programming or hardware implementation. Only time it's used as a positive is when it's talked about as being removed. That whole low level debate at the start of the gen when console warriors were discussion Vulcan and DX12, and it using more low level functions, was basically a talk about which one removed the overheard better, as OGL and DX12 are both base API's that have a lot of overheard for PC, because of the disparity between different types of hardware configurations. They are necessary on PC, but not on consoles, so they take a different form to serve their primary purpose on consoles.

[leejohnson222]

I've seen people calling Tim sweeney and liar and Cerney a liar now they have another guy to add to the list of professional liars who don't know their own jobs or industry

[lelo2play]

Better wait for multiplatform games on both platforms, then compare... to see which console has the biggest di*k.

[scofios]

More salt on the wounds Hahahah

[rainslacker]

Hmmm...Sweeny, and Carmack. Two of probably the top five most highly regarded game engine makers and visionaries in the gaming industry, and both of that class of weird genius that changes an industry through said genius, both say that the SSD is a big deal.

Should we take them at their word, or listen to those few who make software using the things those two guys came up with who say otherwise.

I'm torn, but looking forward to the spin that comes.

[Prem8tuaProcrastin8a]

I suggest you read the full tweet. He goes on to say "the GPU overhead still dominates".

[WickedLester]

Glad to see even more affirmation from the dev community regarding the importance of PS5's SSD. But I'm ready to end all the tech-talk. It's time to start focusing on software!

[rainslacker]

I don't mind the tech talk. What's less useful is those that talk about it as if they understand even half of it. Carmack's quote is obviously misunderstood by some on here talking about it. He refutes Sweeny, but not in the way that they're implying, and they are talking as if the GPU overhead is a good thing.

What Carmack is saying that Sweeny is wrong that you can't bypass the I/O overhead(to which I think it's a matter of context and scope), but regardless of that, the driver on PC still can't access that data in a way that is expedient to the process of what is being shown. That last part is something that the PC SDK's will have to overcome through their low level implementation, and be allowed on an OS level. Something that MS will very likely be forced to implement in Windows more fully in the future if they want to bring their 1st party games to PC and still utilize the consoles SSD to the fullest. I would guess that MS is probably already looking into bypassing the OS layer more in their low level DX feature set. Question remains if they'll allow it outside of DX, as that could potentially cripple other API's from keeping up with DX performance in this regard.

[After10Ben]

You know more about this than I do, so I have a dumb question. Is the Steam OS still a thing and if so could it be used to utilize a PC SSD to the fullest--meaning comparable to the PS5? It's supposed to bypass the OS layer right? At least compared to windows?

[rainslacker]

It did away with some of the OS overhead, but it still existed. Unfortunately, there is no real practical way to do that on PC without accounting for every hardware combination. DirectX itself is designed specifically to do away with the need to worry about hardware configurations, and was a necessity when it released for games to move forward. That hasn't really changed, and likely never will on open platform PC.

[WickedLester]

Honestly rainslacker, I am so beyond sick of the tech discussions because 99% of the people discussing it do not have the first clue as to what they are talking about. They are simply mimicking what they've heard some YouTube personality or some random fanboys in their own echo chambers that fit their narrative have said. Either that or they dissect extreme out of context soundbites from the real experts and freaking run with it. Everyone wants to be an armchair developer. Me, I personally DO NOT CARE anymore. It was interesting at first, but now that we know the specs, it's time to move on for god's sake. At this point forward, I'm simply trusting my eyes. See game, like game (or don't like game)! I'm not standing at my TV with a magnifying glass every time a new game drops and counting pixels! Is it true 4K? Is it 1440p? Is it checkerboard? Is it 30fps? 60fps? 120fps? Damn, shoot me! I absolutely hate this tech-driven PC gamer mentality that has crept its way into the console space (when did this happen btw?).

[rainslacker]

It is tiresome. Sometimes people try to learn more than the basics, but I can agree that it's not something that's always productive. Many people don't care to learn if there is the slightest hint that it may be a negative for their console. They won't even really bother to learn what these fancy features are they're talking about do, or why they're important, or in some cases, not really all that important or different than what's being done already.

It is what it is I guess. Maybe I just have higher hopes for people to actually care than I should.

[S2Killinit]

Yet another developer speaks about it. If you think abour it, its the only console that has something even the highest end PC cant currently match. That is exciting to me.

[Saijahn]

The lies 😂

[Ristul]

Crying salty tears, I see 😏

[Dragonscale]

The denial. It must really burn you xbox fans lol.

[S2Killinit]

By multiple developers? And you know this how?

[Chris12]

Unique doesn't mean better. Secret sauce SSD is not the game changer you think, but it's all you have to cling to right now.

[ApocalypseShadow]

Yeah. Cerny is wrong and Sweeny is wrong and Carmack is wrong. But Chris 12 is right.

/S lol

[Chris12]

You are another prime example of twisting things that are being said into full blown fanboyism. Where did any of these people say the SSD gives PS5 an advantage over the SSD in the XSX?

Dream on with your shallow hopes, roll on the DF comparisons where the shortcomings will be shown and end the argument once and for all.

[Sunny_D]

"Where did any of these people say the SSD gives PS5 an advantage over the SSD in the XSX?"

Is it from insecurity you brought up the Series x when the original comment didn't even mention it? Hmmmm

[cooperdnizzle]

Digital foundry have already came out and said the ps5 will have advantages over xbox and they are" happy to see a custom console out of sony and have made the next console gen a little more interesting"

Have they came out and said one is better than the other? No but they haven't hinted at the fact that sony might have something hear/ be on to something. If you do the math I think the speed of the gpu makes it a little stronger than the xbox. I have seen charts from people much smarter than I break it down. But i still understand the concept. You can push 40 pounds 20 feet and 10 seconds, I can push 30 pounds 20 feet in 4 seconds. You can push more weight but over time on the second and third trip over time I move more weight than you. Xbox has 12 teraplos but can't move and communicate it that fast. Sony have 10 teraflops but can move way fast and communicate it way fast. Dumb analogy its early but yeah kinda makes my point I think. lol

[Chris12]

@copper, unfortunately you are making the same mistakes as the fanboys, you are comparing one aspect of PS5 (the SSD) to one aspect of the XSX (12 TF). On top of that, you're using PS5's peak power.

XSX has so many advantages over the PS5 than pure TF's, but people want to forget that to make a point. Bring on the DF comnparisons, then we will see.

[gamer7804]

im less interested in console trying to compete with PC and more interested what the console as a whole will do for the games I play.

[S2Killinit]

Same here. But it doesn't hurt that for the first time ever, we have a console that has a component not available on PC yet.

[phoenixwing]

Cerny may have paved the way for future console designs by all the companies. Having a blazing fast ssd and good io seems to be impressing a lot of people

[mcstorm]

The thing is with this tech is it is amazing tec to take advantage of it. It's like the triggers on the controller. The question is will all the 3rd party developers take advantage of it?

[caddytrek]

Developers say PlayStation is best.

Microsoft says Microsoft is best.

[Nodoze]

Aaron G says that MS is awesome.

[Kribwalker]

Paid partnerships (epics UE5 demo was a marketing deal) say Playstation is great (no one says it’s best, if so please show us)

Raw specs say otherwise

[Eonjay]

I don't think John is paid by Sony to speak his mind.

[caddytrek]

Says who?

I mean other than Xbox fans who are mad that PlayStation is getting all the praise... Show the receipts.

P.S. PlayStation is the best!

[waverider]

Yes specs really say its 60% faster then Microsoft ssd. Not just 4% or 17%.

[Silly gameAr]

Just because MS pays for positive press, doesn't mean every company does.

[Aenea]

I wonder when Epic Games started to need money deals and flat out lie towards their customer base (developers) for it. Is Fortnite not making enough money anymore you think? Hmmm

[NealGamby]

@Kribwalker

Sure thing. Here you go.
https://www.windowscentral.... https://www.t3.com/us/news/...

"As a programmer I say PS5 is much better and I don't think you can find a programmer that could name one advantage that XSX has over PS5."

[generic-user-name]

Show proof of marketing deal please. Unreal Engine 5 is being sold to developers, not consumers, why would a marketing deal be made with that context? In that context it seems like Epic would pick the hardware that would do the best job of showing off their engine.

[Atanasrikard]

Man you fanboys are so delusional. You do know that PlayStation isn't the only system that will have SSD, right?

[S2Killinit]

But its the only one with SSD more powerful than anything you can get even in the most high end PC, with over two times the speed of closest competitor. Just wanted to complete your statement so its accurate.

[ILostMyMind]

Can I say XSX isn't the only system that will have CPU/GPU?

[Hakuoro]

Well, we know that the SSD in the PlayStation is more than twice as fast.

Perhaps the delusion is pretending that doesn't matter?

[anubusgold]

@S2Killinit We covered this already high end pc does have ssds that fast and you can raid two ssds together on most mid level motherboards have the option in bios.

[Atanasrikard]

@S2killinit

Carmack didn't say anything about it being more powerful than other SSD's, all that he said was SSD was a big deal.

@Ilostmymind

Yes, yes you can. I am not the group taking a non-specific statement about a piece of hardware and only applying it to one piece of plastic because I am a blind fanboy.

@Gamingtomarow

Does 12tf vs. 9tf matter then? Hm? What else you got?

I never said anything about it not mattering, FYI. I simply stated the FACT that Carmack didn't specifically say anything about the PS5 SSD. He was talking about SSD.

[TheFallen1327]

lol this entire comment was unnecessary

[Father__Merrin]

All will be revealed June 4th
Ppl are just thinking of ssd in a pc because it loads quicker. The Ps5 ssd isn't like what's found in a pc the console design and game will revolve around it.

Just imagine quick suspend and back in game. On pc the best you can do is hybernate and wake up lol

[S2Killinit]

How so you know that date? I was thinking july

[borneFROMblood]

it's a rumor

[Atanasrikard]

You mean exactly what Xbox has actually shown on their system? Well they appreciate your support!

[caddytrek]

What have they actually shown? Everything Microsoft has shown so far has been on PC at least Epic's demo was on a PS5 dev kit.

[Atanasrikard]

@caddytrek

"Just imagine quick suspend and back in game." Microsoft has actually shown that. In fact, they showed how they can jump to 4 different games and continue where they left off with no load at all. You fanboys can disagree all you want, Microsoft has SHOWN this. These are facts that you cannont deny.

[ocelot07]

Can't wait for the arm chair devs to come in and tell us how this secret sauce ssd is not important.

[Aenea]

Of course it's not important! /s

Sony spend oodles of money on R&D to solve I/O bottlenecks because it's not important, or the GPU can't keep up anyway, or won't make much of a difference, etc.

Sure makes total sense!

As in: they would not have done this if it didn't give any benefits whatsoever! They would also not have done all this if they knew the GPU could not keep up, or that RAM was too slow, or, or, or.

[waverider]

Gamers, its much more then the speed of the ssd. Its the ground breaking i/o architecture that cerny created for the ps5. Its Light years ahead of the competition.

[solideagle]

you are right because I was just thinking why cannot XBSX users have the same SSD when it's available in public. PS5 SSD will be standard SSD which many companies will make and Sony will approve them. If Cerny has removed the bottleneck of IO along with SSD speed then it might be game-changer. :)

[Chris12]

You guys are in for a horrible truth later this year. Tell me, in multiplatform games, do you think the PS5 SSD is going to mean the performance on PS5 is going to be better than XSX. Just a straight yes or no.

[solideagle]

@Chris12
How can I give yes or no, I am not a developer. I am just commenting on what John Carmack thinks. Only time can tell. To be quite honest with you, I can only buy 1 system and that would be PS5 :)

[Eonjay]

Mark Cerny jump back on the mic:
https://youtu.be/D__7tF8grM...

[Sunny_D]

That was incredible.

[victorMaje]

The more I see about PS5 the more I believe it truly is going to be a whole new experience.
Console architecture continuously praised by developers.
Controller said to be a game changer.
Sound engine taken to new heights.
I can’t wait to see what’s coming. Can you feel the storm on the horizon. Get ready, we are not prepared :)

[will313]

He says in the same quote the GPU still factors in performance. Stop reaching fanboys. Both machines will be powerful. Yall were all power this power that 7 years ago and now you're grasping at straws. This shit is pathetic.

[Eonjay]

What are you so upset about? If you acknowledge that they will both be powerful then why are you trying to beat everyone over the head with GPU differences when it is essential a non factor in this comparison? Legendary dev says this is big news. Leave it at that.

[generic-user-name]

My hardware from 7 years ago is knocking socks off with AAA titles like tlou 2 and gow. 'power' and performance matters and will matter for the next 7 years. So sit back down.

[EasilyTheBest]

The SSD in the PlayStation 5 is great but it's not going to make it more powerful than an Xbox Series X.
I know it's not popular to say so on this site but it's facts.
If the PS5 was going to be more powerful than the Xbox Series X the devs & Sony themselves would be saying so. Sony just wants the narrative to be about the SSD & so they should as that's the only thing more powerful.
Sony will have some amazing games and so will Microsoft.

[Eonjay]

Acknowledging the PS5s power should not make you feel like Xbox is being attacked.

[Atanasrikard]

Acknowledging that both systems have SSD's, not just PlayStation, should not make you feel like PlayStation is being attacked. None of these devs have ever said anything about PlayStation, they talk about the SSD. Going from HD to SSD on consoles is a big deal.

[Eonjay]

Specifically the big deal here is being able to bypass main memory and loading directly.to the GPU. It's not simply about having an SSD.

[Sunny_D]

@Atanasrikard

You must have missed the entire Unreal Engine 5 post interview...

[sinspirit]

Thing is. Almost no one is sitting here and stating the SSD makes it have better graphics. People are just tired of seeing the flood of copy/paste statements detracting from the SSD topic where no ones talking otherwise. So, if you think the downvotes are always disagreements, it's sometimes just people tired of the same old posts that people post for the hell of it. The SSD IS the most exciting upgrade. Both consoles have an SSD. People feel the need to downplay the SSD aspect because PS5 has a better one, and then talk about a small TFlop difference. These articles are *developers* excited about the SSD, especially the faster one, because it's the most requested feature from *developers*. The SSD acting almost like RAM in scenarios is a huge breakthrough that *developers* take interest in. Sony doesn't control that narrative. *Developers* have interest in this technology in a way consumers don't. This is why just having another GPU upgrade isn't a big topic for them. That's expected, normal, and just the common pattern. It's not new.

[ILostMyMind]

This news is not about Sony.

[garos82]

did you conveniently miss the part where he was answering another tweet who asked carmack if he agreed with sweeneys statement from an article? "Tim Sweeney Explains Exactly Why the PS5’s SSD and I/O Architecture Is Way More Efficient Than PC’s"
of course you did

[Futureshark]

SLAP!! Take that Philled Sphincter!!

[jukins]

Just waiting to hear the setup while unique is easy to exploit

[Sitdown]

Delete

[Weapon_of_choice]

To be fair, he didn't say ps5 is better. What he did say is that for him the ssd is a big deal, which means he is very hyped about using it's potential, which means we will see some awesome new things.

Now developers for xbox will be hyped about it's raw power and will find ways to use the xbox's potential, see where I'm going... Different ways of potential.

I myself am hyped about the ssd, it's something totally new, so ps5 first. But very interesting what Xbox will do with their approach

[Hoylosh]

No where did he mention the PS5. Fanboys making up false narrative to keep pushing the ssd narrative. Yes it is faster then the Xbox Series X SSD. But does it make it more powerful then the Series X? No. Both have SSDs. Series X beats it in every other spec list and is the most powerful next gen console. Fact. Look forward to next gen when sony realise the SSD just gave them few more seconds faster on loading while rest of the specs are lowee than Series X. Digital foundry will be interesting. Hilarious secret sauce.

[Hakuoro]

The comment is a reply to Tim Sweeny who was specifically talking about the PS5 SSD.

[waverider]

Dude he was talking about the demo made for the PS5. Loadings? damn. Not really he is talking also about the i/o architecture thats is light years ahead of high end PC´s. You still dont understand that the way games are made, setup, will change. The only thing real that yo told is that no secret sauce, software will be able to match something hardware... no matter how cool is the name.

[sinspirit]

*Doesn't read article.
*Skips to comment section instead.
*Looks for a narrative that fits belittling one thing and making another look better.
*Finds said narrative to try and fit into by copy/pasting and trying to appear technical.

Yeah, maybe fact-check peers before believing what they say cause it appears agreeable based on bias. This is why comments like this are constantly copy/pasted and recieve so much negative attention. Spreading misinformation, assumptions, being snarky, and just being repetitive. I'll just be here as usual calling things out as I see them.

[generic-user-name]

Digital Foundry are already gushing over the PS5 SSD because they understand it's more than 'faster loading screens'. It's not about going from HDD to SSD it's the architecture that Cerny has developed for transferring data from the SSD far more efficiently than even a high end PC.

Does that mean faster loading? Yes, likely instantaneous loading, but that also means we can see games do things they never could before like at the end of the UE5 demo, the player flies at high speed a huge distance with movie quality detail all around him. That's just the start, it'll change how games are designed, giving so much more freedom to creators to realise their visions without compromise.

[Darkborn]

Genius marketing Sony has. They've barely shown anything off and no actual games yet, but they have dozens of studios and people coming out of the woodworks praising their next console. I've only seen Xbox studios or Xbox marketing execs saying how good their console is. That's a huge difference.

[ocelot07]

This was what I said last week and got downvoted lol. Sony has barely shown anything yes it gets all the talk all the headlines.

A tech demo comes out and it's all we have heard about for the last couple days. That's then power the the playstation brand. World wide the playstation is always going to be the go to console for the majority of gamers.

[Chris12]

The demo got talked about because it was 1440p, 30fps, no RT, particle effects or enemies. And can run on a laptop at a better frame rate. Great marketing.

[Sunny_D]

@Chris

Why you mad? Literally everyone is praising the demo and you keep bringing up raytracing thinking we are going to get it full force lmao. These consoles will not be getting ray tracing the way you think we are without clever tricks being done. I think you have another crappy Xbox gameplay event to wait for next month.

[Darkborn]

@chris12 also, epic games said they threw this together with about 10-12 people in a couple months just to prove its possible. They also said they chose the ps5 because it's the best place to market their new products for not just gaming, but for movie marketing and everything. There's a reason they chose to showcase this particular video at this time.

Also I'd like to add that a few years ago Microsoft said with the cloud, they would be no need for new consoles anymore and a little later the xbox one x released. One of the two big console devs is all talk, and the other is letting everyone around them do the talking. That's what I meant.

[garos82]

awwww @Chris12 sounds really mad. Hang in there buddy, gameplay will come soon hopefully for you

[siccstepsccs]

What about the cloud?

[Azfargh]

He dressed as a woman in Wall Market to rescue Tifa from the Don

[Phantom68]

This is not just about a fast SSD. This is about the whole design of the console that eliminates bottlenecks which means PC will need to radically change to recreate what Mark has done with the PS5. Mark Cerny is an absolute genius and the fact he works for Sony is a big deal.

[N4realGMRZ]

LMAO, He's actually explaining why GPU is still more important, misleading title

[TheEroica]

The most boring conversation in all of games in 2020 is "which games looks better."

If you're still counting pixels I feel bad for you.

If devs really respected you they'd be showcasing their new gameplay ideas.

[Kakashi Hatake]

Poor Xbox fans, they want Xbox to be as popular as Playstation so bad lol.

[ps5fanboy]

seeing so many damage control posts off pc fanboys in utter denial , and this pc can do this and this mid range can do that and this hard drive is nothing compared to that one... yet epic n this doom legends are playing it up...?

[ps5fanboy]

salt control is destroyed.

[Bluemaster77]

There was more to what he said. He also had to reiterate that GPU processing is still king when it comes to how visuals are presented.

[carlosjrix]

So ram, cpu and gpu are not important anymore, it is the new standard since your favorite brand is the weakest in those aspects. Yes, I will be filled in disagreements for telling the truth but ... There is no possible way that a faster ssd can counter a higher configuration. It is just misleading marketing.

[KRUSSIDULL]

People need to chill out, no one is attacking Xbox they are not even mentioning it. PS5 is the focus because it has the state of the art SSD. They are not saying anything is impossible on Xbox or PC.

[antikbaka]

just wait and he will tell that xbox some other cool feature too. 3rd party developers...they are all like this.

[Silly gameAr]

Yes, we all know MS and their fans have to be like "Me Too!".

[antikbaka]

BELIEVE ALL DEVELOPERS

[fsydow1]

Lumen is raytracing but software based which is just light bouncing infinitely of surfaces idiots. Lumen is more advanced raytracing thats why it looked better then any other game with RTX enabled out there. Nothing compares period.

[cell989]

The more I reas into this the more I compare it to cars. You can have a dodge hellcat with 700+hp and still get outperformed by a 500hp corvette ZO8. A GTR will outperform an expensive ass lambo. The ps5s might have a smaller v6 engine but it’s Twin turbo charged, the xsxsxs or whatever it’s called, is like a raw v10 Dodge Viper. Big ass engine but somehow slower.

[chiefJohn117]

If it a competition of pulling and towing no it won't beat the 700hp. You have in your head it being a race when its more than that.

[kingkobra2xxx]

What everyone needs to realize is that every system is only as fast as its slowest part. Till now, the focus has been on CPU+GPU+RAM. Investing further in those, will only bring diminishing returns. Cerny has focused on the slowest piece of the console architecture, that is the storage I/O architecture. Devs had to work around this issue, and what UE5 has done is, embrace this tech. This has made streaming of 8k assets possible. So yes, this alone will make graphics better, as CPU+GPU dont have to wait for the assets to be ready. Xbox has it too, but not to this level of customization.
If i were to guess, games based on traditional engines might perform better on Xbox, while newer engines that take advantage of this architecture, will perform better on PS5.

[Godmars290]

Prepare for meltdown.

[chiefJohn117]

I think everyone agrees it's a big deal. Just not the secret sauce hype some making it out to be. But he even says gpu drive still dominate

[343_Guilty_Spark]

More overblown PS5 SSD articles.

[NewEnds0186]

The devs will show what this console can do.

Its simple.

[WGAF]

Nobody understand tech talk, how about just wait until everything are out then?

If you can't wait, then let bet. Put your money down where you think who will be better eh? A pool ($500 each). :)

[Nerdsworth]

The top comments on this Playstation post from a Playstation website is biased fox news trash.

[pornflakes]

PS5 SSD is the new CELL - remember the first Motorstorm trailer? Sony promised Full HD and 120 FPS :D :D :D

Now we have the same situation, nothing changed.. get ready AGAIN to see a PS5 presentation with games 3-4 years away from release without any information about resolution and framerate.

PS5 will push again 30 FPS. Sony likes to show their engines running in Ultra settings to get the WOW EFFECT but at the end they will stuck @ 30 FPS due to less power in CPU and GPU.

All these fanboys here sound like they really think the PS5 will run better then a high end PC. PC gamers will run UE5 in 4k and 100 FPS + with a 4x slower SSD while you will play with a ULTRA FAST SSD the world has never seen before in 1440p and 30 FPS.

[Silly gameAr]

xbox fanboys are so mad. Instead of bowing down to the greatness that is xbox, they would rather be here, trying to convince themselves and anyone that will listen that the PS5 is underpowered. They truly hate when the PS5 gets any praise. It's hilarious.

[NewEnds0186]

Ok? You need a hug?

[Wontime1]

Remember this comment....
PS5's SSD is being overhyped not unlike xb1's "power of the cloud".....
I get though that this is the one factor where ps5 has a leg up on series X, and they are rolling out the red carpet for it.

[DJStotty]

So Carmack agrees with the quote that what Sony has done with the SSD/IO setup is a big deal for Sony,

"Yes, being able to load GPU formatted data directly into GPU memory from an SSD is a Big Deal."

whilst also stating that GPU overheads still dominate,

"The only quibble I have with @TimSweeneyEpic's quote is that you can bypass kernel buffers on PC with unbuffered IO. The GPU driver overhead still dominates."

Like i have been saying all along, a GPU can only operate at a threshold, does not matter how fast an SSD can send data to the GPU, it will only process at the peak threshold.

[MEGANE]

I remember xbox hyping “the power of the cloud on and direct12” for a whole generation as the second coming of Jesus ,honest question, did that get implemented?

[Destiny1080]

The Worlds Fastest SSD & GPU both in the PS5

The Worlds Best Sound & Controller both in the PS5

The Worlds Best Games, Only found on the PS5

[DJStotty]

Along with the "best" comes the highest price,

I hope you are ready?

[ps5fanboy]

listen , had to pop back , pcgamer, go read that twats butt hurt lie posts lol. what a wanker.