God of War creator David Jaffe says Kratos was 'never a misogynist'

God of War creator and director David Jaffe has said that Kratos was "NEVER a misogynist," and that the character has been mischaracterized since the 2018 GoW.

[annoyedgamer]

Violently murder scores of males = ok
Sex with female prisoners = not ok

Simp logic.

[rainslacker]

Being an asshole to everyone is misogyny apparently.

A better adjective to use would be he is a sociopath, and unapologetic about his actions. They changed that some in the new game.

His general attitudes towards women, or men, is probably pretty typical of spartan warriors in the time the games were set.

[annoyedgamer]

The general attitude of men being expendable hasn't changed since Spartan times. Its the exact same today.

[Gaming101]

Everyone likes to pretend that if they weren't living in present times, they wouldn't have the exact same morality as those who lived thousands of years ago in all different parts of the world.

You most definitely would not be a feminist, or virtue signalling social justice warrior. You would not be crying about toxic masculinity like a bitch, and shaming men who had sex with women without making it into a fucking romantic comedy first.

[rainslacker]

@gaming

Not suggesting that the world, and perceptions towards how we treat people haven't changed over the past thousands of years. Just that for the time the game was set that it works for the story. His reasons weren't based on what is considered sexist today. Sexism, in this case, is more about intent, and his intention was never to be discriminatory because of someone's sex.

[Gaming101]

Misogyny is also about a deeply ingrained hatred and prejudice towards women.
Feminists have tried to lump men who use women for sex into this category.
They are idiots, and just hate men. They are brainwashed by their liberal studies professors, and see the world through a lens of victimization which leads them to living a life of pure misery. I don't know a single happy feminist.

[P_Bomb]

Definitely a different time, different place with a strictly defined class structure and gender roles. It’s our history, loosely based but still.

Anyone who has AC:Odyssey (or Origins for that matter) check out the fantastic historical tours mode. Whatever it was called. I’ll look it up. An informative look at the Spartan way of life, dare I say educational. Yay videogames!

Had my son walk through a virtual day in the life of. He’s healthy so his age he’d have been conscripted, head shaved, no shoes, sleeping on sticks and swimming every day starting a 20+ year military training where he couldn’t be with a woman until his 20’s with the expectation to be married by 30...or face fines and stigma. Women sewed clothes.

Edit: Discovery tour. That’s it. Check em out.

[Fluttershy77]

Maybe not God of War 1 but I remember the "Bros before Hos" trophy in GoW: Ascension after you beat the sht out of a female character... If that's not misogynistic, I don't know what is it. That was a low moment for the franchise...

[KillBill]

Does not change the fact that he was a misogynist... simply because everyone else back then were also misogynists.

[rainslacker]

@Kill

I'd say he was a misandrist also then. He was an equal opportunity discriminator. His intent wasn't there to make him a misogynist....at least not in the context that Jaffe was using here. he was just an a**hole.

@Flutter

That doesn't make Kratos misogynistic. That's just a play on words for a common saying that exists today. The saying is indeed disrespectful towards women, but the word hos itself is also a colloquialism that in it's original form was actually made into a term of endearment, and later changed to be inclusive of all women. But the saying itself is more about not chasing after a women while you leave your friends behind.

I think it's a stupid saying myself, and sounds like something men use when they are too insecure, but that's beside the point of the discussion.

In the case of where you got the trophy in the game, Kratos wasn't smashing that female characters face because she was a woman. He was doing it because it was an enemy. The context of the trophy was that you were helping, and being supported by another male character, and you were needing to kill this woman before you could progress. If it had been a male character, and they used the "Bros before Foes" that they eventually changed the trophy name too, no one would have been upset on the play on words. But, because they used the "Hos" saying, and it happened to be a female character, it's suddenly misogynistic?

I don't think so. I think it's just a quippy saying, and while i don't care for saying women are "hos", and have never used the colloquialism, or other potentially disrespectful colloquialisms that describe a group of people, I don't see that the term was used here to be offensive, nor that it makes Kratos himself misogynistic.

[Eamon]

I'm pretty sure Kratos disrespected women less than men. When a guy is in his way, he brutally rips him apart without question - regardless of the guy's cries or begging. If a woman is in his way, Kratos usually asks them to stand aside, and if they do not comply, proceeds to rip them apart.

Also, Kratos is not cruel to children and has never harmed any. It is ancient Hellenistic society that is misogynistic, not Kratos.

[generic-user-name]

"Also, Kratos is not cruel to children and has never harmed any"

Hmmm, he killed his daughter but that was not deliberate, however in GoW III each time he killed a god he unleashed catastrophe upon the earth (or just Greece? Or just 'his' version of earth?) and he knew what he was doing then, he killed probably millions indirectly.

[rainslacker]

He would sometimes try to help people in the games, more often than not women. He'd usually end up killing them eventually to solve a puzzle, and conveniently remove them from the story of the game. Sometimes they'd kill themselves by running away when he was "escorting" them. He's certainly doesn't show remorse for his actions towards others.

[Fluttershy77]

@rainslacker

I mean you can explain it all you want, but at the end of the day people find that trophy to be misogynistic and highly inappropriate, to the point that Santa Monica patch it up almost immediately and the studio and Sony apologize, and promise a better "quality control" for the future...If the trophy wasn't misogynistic, and they meant like you say that you were being "a bro" to kratos while he beat the crap of an "enemy", and "hoes" is just like a coloquial term... Why change it? Why not keep the trophy? Why apologize?

I remember at the time there was a little bit of backlash on regards of how Kratos himself was a misogynist...
Idk about that, you decide.
But my point is that David Jaffe can't really act all surprised and "piss off" when people remind him that this version of Kratos (that is 2018) is not misogynistic... Because there are some precedents to the whole thing

[BlackIceJoe]

I know off topic, but still on topic, because of David Jaffe, I'd like to see him make AAA games again.

I remember in the past he had an idea about making a third or first person shooter and it was about making the Chinese government, attack America, so you become a freedom fighter, to free America. I'm not sure if he was going in this direction or not, but I always thought of it being something like Wolfenstein.

I doubt a game like that would be approved, in this day and age, but I really would like to see it.

[porkChop]

Sounds like a mix of Wolfenstein, Homefront, and Red Dawn. Could be cool. But we've seen a lot of similar stories so he'd have to find some kind of hook to make it more unique and interesting.

[Mr_Writer85]

The thing is with Jaffe, and a few others designers (Cliffy B springs to mind) he's like a sportsman.

He has a shelf life.

And his has now expired.

He made good games, but they were very of the time. Time has moved on, but he has not.

I doubt he will give up, but he peaked with GOW and will probably do nothing of note until he retires.

[generic-user-name]

I dunno, if there's space in modern gaming for Doom games to be successful then there's space for Jaffe.

[Mr_Writer85]

@generic

I'm yet to be convinced. Like I said sometimes these guys have 1 maybe 2 hit IPs in them and that's it.

Doom is a very different beast, it's a well established IP, and the original team have nothing to do with it.

Ironically, Romero is another example of one or two good ideas followed up by less than.

[8bitRey]

IIRC That game was titled HEARTLAND

[StormSailor]

In today's world where nothing can be said against China and everyone pretends to ignore the tyranny and the risk they pose to the world, I find it very difficult for a game like this to come out. Only an indie funded by donations from ordinary people

[BlackIceJoe]

Sadly you're right and now more than ever do we need someone to be brave to stand up to the Chinese government. I just don't know who will be strong enough to do it.

[jambola]

Oh thank God
I never could enjoy the games because I thought he might be
Now I can finally enjoy them

[FullmetalRoyale]

Noice.

[camel_toad]

I'm happy to see that you didn't have to add the "/s" and everyone still seems to of gotten it. It gives me hope that our society (gamers at least) arent just drooling drones bumping into kitchen counters.

[ApocalypseShadow]

Of course not. He was a lady's man and an equal opportunity @ss kicker.

If you were a God that butted in or a worshipper of those Gods, you received equal punishment from his blades to create social change. Was willing to die for his believes and come back(escaping hell was so fun) to continue his struggle.

That's a progressive man. Lol.

[rainslacker]

He'd use anyone to further his own goals. Didnt matter who they were. He even killed people who tried to help him. For the most part, if any other character existed in the game, you could pretty confidently say he'd likely kill them. One of the few exceptions were the women in the sex scene mini game...which funny enough, was someone he killed in the new game.

[ApocalypseShadow]

That's how you effect change rain. Kill everybody. Lol.

[rainslacker]

Since the people in the US don't seem to be taking these stay at home orders seriously, the pandemic will probably do all that killing for us.

[Saaleh]

Very proactive even in hell..

[NecrumOddBoy]

Can murder a god with his bare hands; takes time out of his day to f*ck another man's wife; rises to power; falls again

Kratos = Dwight Schrute

[rainslacker]

Hes angry because he doesnt have a super desk

[Interinactive_]

...megadesk

[rainslacker]

Oh yeah...damn. Can't keep your jello stapler in a super desk. not enough refrigeration.

[Loktai]

I dunno the women never seemed to mind. Ive seen japanese porn that seems a hell of a lot less consensual than what he does. I think there are entire minigames based around PLEASING them if Im not wrong.

[slate91]

Bro Im so relieved beyond words knowing this.

[Segata]

Go away Jaffe. Your shelf life expired over a decade ago. Your edge is cringe now. Times have changed. You have not.

[NotanotherReboot]

The irony of this comment - posted by a user with a Dreamcast controller avatar

[MadLad]

I mean, he was, but I think the female videogame characters will get through this.

[rainslacker]

Fake lives matter. Dont oppress their nom-voice. There are trillions of women in the world who live vicariously through these marginalized digital characters, and what happens to these characters is a direct attack on these women with no self worth or self esteem.

[P_Bomb]

Fake lives matter, lmao I’m stealing that 🤣!

[Tross]

No, the ladies should avoid getting seriously involved with him for a different reason though. They may as well be signing their own death certificate. In all fairness to Kratos, he never intends that to be the case, but it’s still something he has working against him.

[Spicyram]

People can be so dumb

[ShadowWolf712]

Kratos absolutely was. It was both culture and how he'd deteriorated after Ares' betrayal. He doesn't remain one, at least not as bad, but he absolutely, definitely was.

I dunno why people keep trying to downplay the negative aspects of their characters, it undermines their redemption arc. Yes, Kratos was a bastard, he did horrible things, he was not a good guy. He does become one. That's what made the end of GoW 3 so powerful and meaningful though. That's why GoW 2018 had the meaning it did for the character.

Don't deny that for the sake of appeasing fake outrage, or because you've morphed into some pseudo-SJW yourself, Dave.

[Eamon]

"I dunno why people keep trying to downplay the negative aspects of their characters, it undermines their redemption arc."

An interesting observation. There has been this trend - where fictional characters in movies/shows lately that commit acts of 'murder, burgling, robbery, torture' can be forgiven if part of a character's redemption arc - however acts of 'rape' & 'misogyny' are so unforgivable that even the writer that created the character should be condemned.

[generic-user-name]

At what point did he treat women any worse than he treated any male he came across (pun not intended)?

[ShadowWolf712]

Oh, I get it. You think Misogyny means you have to exclusively treat women badly.

Not the case, broski.

The cavalier way in which he spoke to them, treated them as sex objects, that is misogyny. It's also not a "bad" thing for him to be in regards to his arc. Dunno why everyone acts like it's so horrible if they admit that.

[Petebloodyonion]

I believe that for Kratos, all ppl are equally worthless.

[leejohnson222]

This is a non story, who fuking cares. Pure nonsense

[DFresh]

Screw these feminists they don’t even play God of War or video games for that matter.

[343_Guilty_Spark]

Loving Godly pussy is not misogyny. Mentally, physically, and emotionally abusing women is misogynistic.

[babadivad]

He's not real.

[spicelicka]

"However, the series’ most controversial moment arguably came in God of War 3, a game which wasn’t directed by Jaffe, in which Kratos forcibly attached Poseidon’s Princess to a crank in order to open two gates, which would then crush her to death."

Yeah well he was sort of a raging sociopath towards everyone regardless of their gender. Do we want to count how many times he did that and much more to males?

[P_Bomb]

Didn’t he kill that one boat captain twice? :p

Decapitated Helios, gouged out Poseidon’s eyes, cut off Hermes’ legs, caved in Hercules’ face. The dude sunk Atlantis. What about the princess?

[spicelicka]

lmao he did. So a fictional character on a rampage has to avoid killing female characters because somewhere in a different universe people will call it misogyny.

[BadElf]

Bummer!

[Majinzo]

He destroyed everything equally so... I think a lot of people focusing on the wrong thing.

[jcfalcone]

Well kind of fair if you ask me hahaha

[cnote00]

I wonder if anybody thought of that while playing...

[MaxiPower90]

The 2018 game is far superior than the games that came before.

[MetalGearsofWar]

It was a walking simulator.

[MaxiPower90]

really? in what way? I thought it was a perfect game. Didn't shoehorn a pointless open world in when not needed, perfect hub world that was immersive unlike say the new Gears of War that was brutally bland. (and I like Gears of War)

[RabbitFly]

He is right. All the funny meme-like comments here are good fun and all. The point is that When gow 2018 came out People started talking about kratos as he was a New character. As if the old games made him out to be some kind of 2-dimensial mass murderer, and they are wrong. They Just want an excuse to explain why they suddenly thought Kratos was a masterfully created character. But all the themes of his character in gow 2018 was based on the themes already present during his character arc throughout the previous games. Barlog himself has said so in many occasions. I think the issue is more that the People that suddenly find kratos to be a compelling character can't admit to themselves that they are the ones thst have finaly grown up enough to pick up on the subtlety. Kratos was always a man that cared more about hos family than anything.

[NapalmSanctuary]

Who fucking cares, man. Even great characters have character flaws. They'd be boring, worthless characters without them.

Few people trust the media as it is. Just cause they keep mischaracterizing shit is no cause to have to repeat one's self. It's hard to have respect for self-righteous, elitist puritan scumbags who couldn't be bothered to have some self awareness.

[SuperbVillain]

The sex scene in gow3 was my favorite level :) I bes that up like 5 times in a row

[Ninver]

Who even asked if he was? I've played almost all the GOW games and never did the thought of Kratos being Misogynistic ever cross my mind. He's remorseless for crying out loud. No gender or social status is exempt. Leave this kind of stuff out of my hobby.

I've come to realize that people who aren't content with their lives are always finding things to complain about. Quite disturbing not knowing the lengths they'll go to insinuate something.

[saimcheeda]

Even if he was the point was never to make us like Kratos. He kills people for his own twisted revenge and cares for no one. It's not like he was ever built up to be a role model!

[RabbitFly]

Well that is actually not entirely true. He kills because he is manipulated into slavery of the gods. Even with him killing Ares as revenge for Ares tricking him into killing his own family he does so on the behest of Athena. And then in gow 3 When he goes on a god murdering sprer he does so as Gaia's chosen tool.

He is the perfect tool for them because he has nothing left to live for. The point of God og War 1 is that he has so much remorse for what he has done that he only wants to end his life, but the gods wont let him. In fact the way Athena entices him is precisely with saying that if he does this for her he can finally be free of the chains of olympus, free to end his own life.

He is, and always has been, a much more complicated character than people seem to be willing to give him credit for.

Which is probably part of why jaffe is so annoyed. Balrog himself has said multiple times that he did not reinvent the character. He just built on what was already there. He should know. He worked on all the games.

[MasterCornholio]

He was strongly prejudiced against those pots though.