RS: Should the GTA Online shambles affect the review scores?

Let's start from the top and say that while I’ve not been as enamoured with it as most people, Grand Theft Auto V is undeniably a great game. I can’t deny the fact that just walking around Los Santos, taking in this living breathing world is truly remarkable at times and is a sandbox unlike most others.

But is GTA V getting special treatment?

[ArchangelMike]

No. It's an add-on. A very good, add-on, but an add-on none-the-less.

[JoGam]

Dude if its a add on then all multiplayers are add ons. WTF

[Ezz2013]

yeah all games get reviews base on both SP and MP
any way with or without the MP
this game is not 10/10 for me
it's 8-8.5/10 game for me

[Heisenburger]

No.

I paid for it.

It's on the box.

I am enjoying GTA online but I am so freakin annoyed by so many people acting like it's "free", so it's not a big deal.

I paid $59.99 for this game. With that comes the single player campaign, and online.

Did someone who DID NOT spend sixty dollars get it for "free"?

No!

Therefore it is not free.

I feel like this shouldn't warrant an explanation.

[N311V]

It annoys me too!

When I first heard it was free I thought awesome and went looking for it on the Playstation store. Obviously it wasn't there because it's not free!

I own it now but that's beyond the point, the point is it's not free!

[MysticStrummer]

An add on would be something that isn't referenced on the box, and wasn't advertised before launch. Some people bought GTA5 because of the online play alone. That's not an add on. The review scores should definitely reflect the state of online play. I'm not saying the game should be getting 5s and 6s, but all those 10s are pretty ridiculous at this point.

[-EvoAnubis-]

Why should it? A month from now, is it really going to matter how maddening the first few weeks of GTA Online were? Already the servers are nice and stable and I haven't had an issue in days. By next week's patch, the problems should be totally gone, and everyone who had to go though them GTA$500,000 richer.

After that point, who cares? GTA Online rocks.

[ZBlacktt]

There are so many exploits, money means nothing anyway. Very crappy testing leads to so many issues. Even the single player has exploits. Had them found day 1 of release.

In a month your right, it wont matter at all. Because Next Gen is here and this is history.

[-EvoAnubis-]

If you seriously think that GTA Online won't exist on 8th gen consoles, then you seriously have no idea how big Rockstar's ambitions are for this title.

[ZBlacktt]

Yeah, because GTAIV was so great. I'm not saying GTAV won't be here. But it's been years since a new console has arrived. Now we get one that's 10 times more powerful with the best controller ever made ( DS4 ), the best graphics ever seen ( on consoles ), a much better network and operating system and features and you think people are just going to say Nnnnaaaa, I'll wait. Pre orders say otherwise.

Just day one:

COD Ghost
BF4
Killzone Shadow Fall
Assassin's Creed 4 Black Flag
Watch Dogs

Next Gen or sit on the old 7,8 year old consoles playing something that is getting patched left and right. That also has slow load screens...

Then comes:

Destiny
The Order 1886
The Division
Infamous Second Son
Metal Gear Solid 5

http://wimages.vr-zone.net/...

[-EvoAnubis-]

@ZBlacktt: Didn't say GTAV. Said GTA Online. Two totally different things, which will become abundantly clear over the course of the next several months.

As for the rest of what you're saying there, you're acting like I'm arguing against how cool next gen will be, which I'm not - I've had my PS4 preordered for months now.

Seriously ZBlacktt - I have no idea what you're talking about. You're arguing against a point that I never made. At what point did I say anything about people waiting to get an 8th generation console? I didn't even mention 8th gen at all until you did, and my only point was that GTA Online would be on it.

I think you've been arguing with fanboys for so long that you forgot how to NOT do that.

[MajorLazer]

So the 16 million+ Gta V owners are all purchasing next gen consoles this year? You are very delusioned if you think just because next gen hits, this gen becomes redundant

[ZBlacktt]

Defend it until the end, lol. But can't call it like it is. Sad people.... it's broken, a mess, a poor job in testing, patches are coming.... again. I'm aware of every issue and exploit. Bet you are as well and probably are taking full advantage of them before they get patched as well. Whatever last gen players. One month left and we can distance ourselves you from.

[Ohlmay]

It should affect the score, GTA Online is apart of GTA V, it comes with the game. You don't judge Halo, Battlefield, Call of Duty, Uncharted or any other game by just it's single player, you judge the overall package. GTAO is a massive disappointment, it promised so much and failed to deliver, the games score should be lowered. If someone buys this game today he's not going to judge the game just on the single player, he'll judge it on the SP and MP.

MMOs all the time are criticised and have their scores lowered due to launch problems. Just look at Diablo 3, even though it's not an MMO, that game was heavily criticised and scores were lowered due to it's launch problems. Don't give Rockstar a free pass just because it's GTA.

[-EvoAnubis-]

And the launch problems of Diablo 3 matter to someone buying it today...how?

[Ohlmay]

Sorry is the game still not under DRM? It's still having login problems from what I read on the Diablo forums.

[RobbyGrob]

I don't think he's talking about the failed launch when he says "Massive dissapointment". I think it's rather the general lack of features and quality.

Diablo 3 was ranted upon for not having any end-game. Well at least it had fun and high-quality multi-player while it lasted. GTA5 online is like weak single-player that happens to be played on a server with others who also are playing weak single-player.

People have been boasting about how there's tons of things to do. The problem is that there's no fun involved in interacting with others in this game. It all feels so very impersonal and unexciting. I've played the game online for about five hours and have yet to have a single moment of fun.

- Deathmatch is a total snore. It's the most simplistic game-mode in any shooter but is somehow even more boring and pointless in GTA5 than in GTA4. You don't turn to a game like GTA for deathmatch anyhow so i don't see why this mode is even there.

- Jobs are ridiculously devoid of content. You drive from point A to point B and kill people together with a random other player whom most of the time isn't on the same page as you. In other words; it's like deathmatch with waypoints. Not nearly exciting enough.

- Open world driving around in GTA5 online is the least social experience you could ever have in a multi-player game. It's like free-for-all semi-exploration semi-deathmatch (in a world that you've already fully explored) without the rewards and the competition. I don't see why this game needs open world at all online. Just give us menus and let us choose what we want to do from there.

- Racing in a GTA5 game isn't bad, but hardly better than the online racing in an actual racing game.

- The rest of the mediocre and mundane things to do doesn't get any more fun when playing with others. Give me bots and i'll probably enjoy that more.

- The VOIP sound quality is the worst i've ever heard.

Can someone please tell me what i'm supposed to look forward to here? Why should i bother improving my character only to participate in the most entertainment-devoid online world that any developer has ever created?

[MysticStrummer]

@Evo - Reviews can be updated to reflect improvements. An early review of Diablo 3 should definitely have taken into account how well the online play was working at the time. I've only played the console version, which is lots of fun and deserves high scores.

@RobbyGrob - I have to disagree with you on several points.

Deathmatches don't usually make much sense to me, but they make perfect sense in GTA. It is very simplistic, but Deathmatch is a natural mode for GTA Online. I don't play that mode myself because I prefer team play, but it does make sense to have it in there.

Most of the co-op jobs are too simple, but they're more like Team Deathmatches against bots with waypoints than Deathmatches. The limited respawns make this fun and challenging at times. I'm sure the rating system will lead to some jobs being filtered out and new ones added in, so this will evolve over time.

The open world play is just like RDR's. There are things to do, but It's mostly there so that groups of friends can mess with people, plain and simple. There are also random events in the world that everyone can see, like the crates dropping in random locations. More things become available as you level up, and I'm sure more will be added.

It's nearly always more fun to play against people than against bots, though bots are a nice option to have. I played tennis last night against a girl I knew from PS Home, and it was a lot of fun. If it was against a bot I would have quit.

I've played games with much worse VOIP quality.

If you think this is the most entertainment devoid online world ever created, I can only assume you haven't played many online games with open worlds.

[-EvoAnubis-]

@MysticStrummer Agree with you on both points. Yes, the early issues should absolutely be noted, and in both the cases on GTA Online and Diablo 3 (which I've never played outside of the demo), those early issues are pretty much gone. If someone were to get into GTA Online today for the first time, none of what happened over the course of the past few weeks would effect them whatsoever except for them qualifying to get that $500,000 GTA$.

@RobbyGrob: I agree with the point you made about deathmatch (it's pretty boring), but on every other point I couldn't disagree more. The jobs are fun as hell if you're running them with friends, which is the only way I've ever done it. Some of the later ones are VERY difficult, and without coordination with your teammates things won't go well for you at all. Besides, the best part of the package isn't even out yet: heists.

[KonsoruMasuta]

Rockstar never attempted to lump the two together. They always treated like two different games on the same disc. It's supposed to be two different packages, not just one. They want it to materialize into it's own game.

The problems with GTA online will show up in the GTA online reviews. It has to be reviewed over time because it's constantly evolving, like an MMO.

[annus]

Ah yes, the old "We will bundle it as one, but don't treat it as one." argument. The product review should be for the product, regardless of how people should 'see' it. If it's two separate games it would be marketed as GTA V + GTA Online, and you would be able to buy both separately, but you cannot because it is a single product.

[yeahokchief]

You have to rate GTA Online over time since it is like an MMO now.

Yes early scores should be a lot lower because of all the exploits, bugs etc

But do a follow up score based on how well they adjust and fix the game over time.

[JohnS1313]

Online parts of mainly single player games should be given time. All online games should be really. The single player part of GTA5 is great. Anyone mad about how GTA Online is right now should stick to the single player game until the bugs are worked out.

[FlunkinMonkey]

You shouldn't 'have' to do anything.. A game should be reviewed in its state on release. I would have rathered they delayed the product and ironed out the monumental amount of problems, than me sit down and waste time trying to have fun with a broken product.

I'm sorry, but if a game has this many bugs it should effect its review score regardless of SP or MP.

But to be honest, the hype machine that GTA5 is (just like 4), most people are likely to say forget it, it doesn't matter which is ridiculous, if this was any other game it would be getting ripped apart for it.

Hype train abooooard.. Tooot toooooot,

[JohnS1313]

You get $60 worth of game from the single player game. Just give Rockstar time to get the online part working. All online games have issues when they get released. This isn't COD which is mainly an online game with some single player thrown in. It's a mainly single player game with online. It's hard to get everything working right when you sell so many copies of a game. There's probably bugs they couldn't even see until a lot of people started playing.

[Kingthrash360]

yes it should....if cod online mp was like this it woulda got a low score...mp isnt a add on its part of the game that got delayed for obvious reasons....i really dont care though i like gta online/offline but just because its awsome dosnt mean it gets a pass for its flaws...if so then reviews are worthless...pointless even.

[ufo8mycat]

It's not 'part' of a game for someone who plays SP only.
If a review site have the game a 6/10 because of MP, that is misleading and doesn't give the full representation of the awesome SP.

It should be separated to give a better indication of where the flaws is and thus for someone who plays SP only, they can easily tell that the SP is awesome

SP - 10/10
MP - 6/10

COD is a MP game therefore only 1 review score is needed. Who the hell plays SP on COD LOL

[Kingthrash360]

then that should happen with EVERY GAME right? thats my point here gta shouldn't get a pass while every other game gets a single score for both sp and mp and gtv gets them seperated. kinda bs it that...tell me what other game got 2 seperated scores...link please.

[KonsoruMasuta]

What you guys don't understand is that Rockstar wanted GTA Online to be it's own thing from the start. They wanted the SP and MP to be two seperate things. It was advertised like that from the beginning.

[iamnsuperman]

But it wasn't sold that way (which is the key difference). Can you play GTA Online without buying GTA V? No. So it isn't a separate product. No matter how much they advertise it a certain way, the crux of the matter is you cannot play GTA Online without getting GTA V

[ZeekQuattro]

Yes scores should take a hit but the damage has already been done as Rockstar is laughing all the way to the bank right now. I'm just glad I didn't buy into the hype.

[iamnsuperman]

Yes. It is an issue I had with BF3 (but that was more the other way round with the single player being a bit messy). It is the whole package and you review it as such. The online can be fixed but should a game or service be released in such a poor state? Hell no. Reviewers are not helping the situation if we are giving out free passes. If the game is a mess when it launches (either online or singleplayer or both) then the score should be effected by that.

Should we even have scores? No

[ufo8mycat]

Nope

Because the review sites were reviewing GTA:V, not GTA:Online.

If you are going to, have 2 separate scores.

Lets say you include it and give the game a 6/10 - that is misleading and doesn't represent the awesomeness of SP, because of this, if you are going to review it, it needs to be separated.

SP - 10/10
MP - 6/10

Example - BY having it like that - that clearly tells me SP is awesome and MP is buggy or not that great gameplay wise.

[iamnsuperman]

Is that really fair though (something I can't decide was tactical by Rockstar or impatience by the media) ?

You can only play GTA Online through GTA V. It would be different if GTA Online was a standalone thing.

"Lets say you include it and give the game a 6/10 - that is misleading and doesn't represent the awesomeness of SP, because of this, if you are going to review it, it needs to be separated"

Unfair? Sure but this is why review scores need to go. Why look at the score and not the content of the review. The content of the review should indicate what you are saying

[ufo8mycat]

"Unfair? Sure but this is why review scores need to go. Why look at the score and not the content of the review. The content of the review should indicate what you are saying"

Yeah true, problem is theres a lot of people that skim the contents and just look at the scores lol.

But still giving it a single review - 6/10 at the end, makes it look like the whole game is awful, for those that don't read the contents, and will assume that then maybe won't buy it, because they won't know if its because the SP is shit or the MP or what not.

Thats why it should be separated, so someone who doesn't want to read the contents for some reason, can just scroll to the end and see

SP - 10/10
MP - 6/10

Separating it like that is just much better.
"Oh I only play SP - so yeah 10/10 awesome"

"Hmm I like SP but I want it mostly for MP - 6/10 hmm hmmm"

Current reviews like IGN should be updated with 2 separate scores like above.

But of course this won't happen.

[Jovanian]

is the customer paying for it? Then yes, its part of the product. They had an obligation to fulfill when they listed on the box that there would be an online component that is fully functional, the buyer puts money on it, so the online component is part of the purchase, part of the game

[Dfooster]

In this case the single player is so full of content and quality it deserves the 10/10 for that alone. Also the online wasn't technically in the box at launch. And finally a review should be something you can refer back to in 2-3 years time. If even the online portion gets a low score due to some technicalities that lasted four days then that's not reflecting the product someone might want to purchase at a later date.

Therefore I agree waiting and giving the benefit of the doubt is the right thing to do.

[imahustla19]

i don't think the 2 should be considered one game. if they were it would just be Grand theft auto 5 and its multiplayer.Think about call of duty, it has its single player and its multiplayer combining to make Call Of Duty. its multiplayer portion isnt called call of duty online its just the online mode. Rockstar intentionally named GTA5's online portion Grand Theft Auto Online to separate it as its own thing. yes the do come packaged together on the same disc but so does the God Of War HD remakes and people don't consider that 1 game.

[Animal Mutha 76]

It's a good question.

The single player part of the game is so huge and in my opinion a masterpiece of open world design that it could quite rightly be considered a game in its own right.

By releasing the online part weeks later R* have cleverly distanced that part of the game from the single player effectively making it look like an add on or a separate game in its own right.

Had the online part been available in that state from day one then yes the review scores would have dropped.

As it is they probably knew it wouldnt cut it straight away and were clever enough to separate it so as to maximise review scores and first week sales.

It's a shame really as the issues I hear about online ( I've not used it yet until I finish SP) detract from what is probably the pinnacle of game development, arguably the greatest piece of game design and execution ever seen with such limited console resources. It really is incredible what they have achieved. Its the first real world which just feels alive and that you don't run it but are a small part of it going about its daily routine. So immersive.

[DoctorJones]

I've bought loads of games where the mp was crap while the sp was excellent. The Online shouldn't affect the scores of the sp, so no it shouldn't change the score. You can score the online different in a separate review if you want, but the sp is still outstanding and should be merited as such.

The SP portion of the game is better than any other open world game ever made, it deserves the scores, even if a very small minority of people believe it doesn't.

[CaptainCamper]

Considering the bang you get for your buck with GTA V no, GTA Online should not impact the review scores.

Rockstar should be judged on their ability to create an online game, not GTA V.

[Software_Lover]

Does the single player affect the Battle Field scores?

[dennett316]

No, the game was reviewed without an online component, those scores should stand. The issues with Online shouldn't be ignored though, and so long as people keep on top of that, that would be enough.

[SpecialK]

I think it should for the time being, and then review scores can be amended in due time when things are sorted.

I lost 2 characters and re did the tutorial (which is boring first time round).

What annoys me is that it shows that hype washes over everything. When EA released the sims and the online didn't work, there was an outcry, because its cool to hate on EA...

When SOCOM came out the backlash over the online component formed one of the pillars of its ultimate demise, killing off a series that didn't deserve to go.

So why does this game get to have a free ticket when the online was truly abysmal for weeks, and released late?

Yeah GTA5 is amazing, but yes, you review the game as it is when you review it, not how you hope it to be in the future, how is that useful to buyers?

[Kyosuke_Sanada]

If a game company isn't cutting slack on the price of their product regardless of the quality of their content, why should reviewers cut them slack for not delivering on their promises.

[RickHiggity]

It depends. Can you think of one game that worked flawlessly on day one? GTA online had the misfortune (If you can even fucking call it that) of being one of the most popular video games of all time, which strained the servers.