What's with the headline? It doesnt correspond with the title of the article.
All knee jerk reactions aside, I'm surprised that many people are surprised by intelligence agencies gathering information like this. Certainly, I can see why Microsoft was legally obliged to do so but these agencies most likely have a lot more information about you than you know.
If you're a Muslim living in the West, for jninstance, you should confidently assume that your activity is being tracked to an even more significant degree as 'security concerns' provide such agencies an excuse to document what you do
" The company reiterated its argument that it provides customer data "only in response to government demands and we only ever comply with orders for requests about specific accounts or identifiers".
Surely this is common sense? Do not be surprised if Sony are compelled to do the same.
In my belief it has absolutely nothing to do with having something to hide as it does with every human beings right to privacy. I have absolutely nothing to hide. No drugs, no illegal firearms, no dead prostitutes, but I still don't like it. I mean, who honestly likes the idea of their personal information being spread around at someone else's leisure?
Maybe you have nothing to hide today, but what if something you're doing now is deemed illegal in the future and because they have data of you doing it in the past they can retroactively prosecute you?
Or say you're a party type of guy now, but you clean yourself up in the future and are vying for a high profile position. Well your opponent or someone in their camp has access to this past information and decides to discredit you with it.
These are just a couple of very real scenarios. Privacy is a constitutional right, and no government or corporation has any right to trample on it.
What does this have to do with anybody hiding anything! I'm sure many don't have anything to hide, but that doesn't prevent them from being lumped in with those who do have something to hide!
You might be fine with your everyday life being a open book, but many are not!
It's not the matter of having anything to hide, it's just pure privacy concerns. When I'm on the crapper, my farts are nothing important and they don't hurt anyone but that doesn't mean I'm ok with someone listening in on me doing my business. If you have nothing to hide, why not just ask for a personal NSA agent to tail you all day and watch you every waking second, nothing to hide right? Why not?
If the NSA wants to know what you are up to, they have access to everything..
ur incredibly ignorant and foolish to think Sony wouldn't give up your info if requested.. Just because one company is talked about doesn't mean it doesnt applies to every other company in the USA..
Or they can tap your phone..spy on you from space..
This kinect paranoia is just sensationalized bullshit.. Nobody complained about the move or kinect in the past when they could have been used for the same purpose
It's amazing how many people assume everything is being recorded 24/7. There has to be a red flag to start the investigation in the first place. Just like that kid that is in jail for making a joke about doing something to his school. That will raise an alarm no matter if you are on Xbox Live or Playstation Network.
What's even more amazing is hearing some of the stuff people have said on Facebook or Twitter. Some people just don't have any common sense.
This concern about Kinect doesn't even matter to 99.99% of the people who will use it. So why would anyone care in the first place other than to fear-monger and make it sound like they are spying on all of us.
Uh...maybe his personal space, family life, siblings, personal belongings? Just cause you welcome strangers looking into your personal life doesn't mean the next man does. Frankly there's no way in hell I'm having a kinect under my roof for the reasons above.
Sarcastic, maybe. If microsoft or the US/UK government wanna watch me sitting in my boxers playing Killer Instinct, they're more than welcome.
When Abu Quatada pops round for a cup of tea and a discussion on How we will enforce Sharia law on the infidels, we'll just pop to the dining room, switch the power off at the wall.
"When Abu Quatada pops round for a cup of tea and a discussion on How we will enforce Sharia law on the infidels, we'll just pop to the dining room, switch the power off at the wall."
Ah, the generic scare tactic response. There you have it people. The logic of a fanboy when asked whether he minds giving up his privacy rights for the latest Halo.
You clearly are not getting the point. If MS has the ability to capture and distribute private data about people, then it is wrong because it is a breach of the privacy that every law abiding citizen in any civilised society has the right to have. Sure, the NSA listening in on phone calls may help fight terrorism but wrong should not be committed to prevent wrong and certainly where innocent people are involved.
The "tinfoil-hat wearers" are vindicated once again. Seems to be a trend.
Gamers: "Um, guys, there are rumors that Xbox One is going to be always online"
MS loyalists: "Tinfoil hat! There's no way they'd do that"
Gamers: "Um, guys, there are rumors that Microsoft is going to make the XBox 720 an all-in-one media box that doesn't focus on gaming"
MS loyalists: "Tinfoil hat!"
Gamers: "Um, guys, there are rumors you won't be able to trade or sell or lend or rent your games on Xbox One"
MS Loyalists "Hahah! Tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists! What's next? Oh, oh, lemme guess: Mattrick will leave Xbox and Kinect will be required? Hahahha!"
What's happened to the quality of your posts? Come on dedicated....you're better than this.
None of this operates in a vacuum. Legal obligations bind everyone, including Sony. This isn't tin foil stuff....this is called having a basic awareness of the society we live in.
@Septic: The difference with Sony being that it doesn't require a camera for the console to operate so even if they are hit with such requests, they can't exactly stream footage from people's living rooms if they don't have the cameras in the first place.
"Exactly. The Xbox One's camera requirement casts this news in a light that goes far beyond "well, they were legally obligated to do it".
Just by virtue of its design, the Kinect is coming under fire? Is it so hard to believe that the Kinect requirement is genuinely a design for the benefit of the console/tech as opposed to this?
This is my main concern with the Kinect and Microsoft in general. People are being so quick to dismiss this stuff and treat it like it's one big joke. Yet right now we have kids sitting behind bars because they made some stupid joke on Facebook or said something stupid in LoL.
People are suppose to be innocent until proven guilty in America, but clearly that is no longer true. Yet people think it is a good idea to bring in a high quality camera into their homes that is recording all of their personal interactions and broadcasting it to a company via the internet? Wake up people before those stupid jokes you make land you in jail.
Not to mention Yahoo which actively tried to get a court order allowing them to refuse the NSA's request. I don't see Microsoft doing anything like that.
Right, because your address and credit card info (that the government already has anyway) is the same thing as a face-recognition camera and microphone planted smack dab in your livingroom/bedroom.
And please stop pretending like MS has never been hacked before.
Last I checked it wasn't Sony who stole peoples credit card information, but rather some a-hole hacker and unlike Microsoft who is voluntarily giving your information away, the PSN hack was done without Sonys knowledge. Nice try though.
@ironwolf: rootkits, while an a-hole move by Sony, weren't put there to data mine your personal data, they were put there to protect Sonys intellectual property. What Microsoft is doing with the NSA does nothing of the sort, so it's comparing apples and oranges. Again nice try though.
no CC data was stolen, as it was all encrypted, and there certainly hasn't been *any* instance of anyone's CC info being used maliciously as a result of the hack. furthermore, sony never said anyone's data had been stolen. they maintained the entire time that there was only the possibility that some information *might* have been compromised.
Exactly. I dunno if some of them are trolling, but the xbone fanboys think that because we don't wanna throw away our rights, we're paranoid and living in the past.
What is it with people going over the top on everything. We live in a connected world now and most of the modern world now has a smart phone that is connected to the internet 247 with a mic and camera. Or a tablet/pc with the thing. Seri and Google voice sends our Data to Google and apple that can be looked at by the government at any point.
If you don't like it don't buy the products its s simple as that.
I assume your principles relating to privacy will mean you are also boycotting Google and Facebook? Actually, what are you doing on the Internet right now... You're being watched remember.....
I wouldn't try and rationalize with these people thomper. For some reason they think this is some new ground being treaded. I guess they don't know the apps on their phones give up more information than they will ever know.
Slap Microsoft and X1 on it though, this websites ears perk up.
You people are hilarious. You think that because you advertise your lives all over the web like little attention whores that everyone else does as well.
Yeah, me and my friend have talked extensively about this. Skype was known to be completely in compliance with NSA right before Microsoft bought them. Now Skype is the new chat system in Xbone. Then you have the Kinect 2 that has to be connected for your Xbone to even work. It really is a nightmare with Big Brother always watching, like the Eye of Sauron.
Big difference in getting hacked vs giving up info because a government wishes to step on the civil rights of its populace!
Keep in mind that the US gov lied vehemently every step of the current NSA scandal. This means that fundamentally the US government is not above being corrupt. This just leads me to the next obvious conclusion....if you or yours is in the way of the US gov.....you could easily be "moved". Fabrication manufactured to fit the agenda of big gov, big corps or maybe illuminati if you believe in such things.
How's this a MS or Kinect problem? Because MS is every bit as shady as US gov. More so likely. Skype anyone?
Countries need to step back and see that big US corps are perhaps not a reliance worth having if their citizens value privacy.
And certainly, all country's have survalliance. But laws are in place so this isn't abused (at least that's the intent)......
If I was say France.....I'd figure out a way to control MS data before it reached their servers. But how?
in one scenario, you are going through people’s stuff to sell them shit, in the other the government of your country demands access to people’s stuff.
I dont think any US based company can say no to the US government.
that said, im not happy about all of this crap but i think if you want to blame someone, it should be the government and not the tech companies. Im pretty sure they have access to everything so you know…
At least we don't have any of the idiot comments (yet) about how if MS was "caught spying" how they would be sued or go to jail or whatever nonsense. Participants in these programs are granted legal immunity. That should be patently obvious, considering how much they *have* been caught spying via other means.
From the Guardian: "• The company worked with the FBI this year to allow the NSA easier access via Prism to its cloud storage service SkyDrive, which now has more than 250 million users worldwide"
The powah of teh clowd!
"• Skype, which was bought by Microsoft in October 2011, worked with intelligence agencies last year to allow Prism to collect video of conversations as well as audio"
Bu-bu-but... they can't record you because they can't store all the data! (Oh, the new facility in Utah can store yottabytes of data? Oh... um... well... Xbox, watch Price is Right! Pretty cool, huh? Huh?")
"The company reiterated its argument that it provides customer data "only in response to government demands and we only ever comply with orders for requests about specific accounts or identifiers"."
Well isn't that nice. Okay, so that's the only time that MS "provides" the information (whenever they're asked, great safeguard there). What about information that isn't "provided," but that the NSA just takes of their own volition, considering the docs admit they have pretty direct access to MS systems?
"Since Prism's existence became public, Microsoft and the other companies listed on the NSA documents as providers have denied all knowledge of the program and insisted that the intelligence agencies do not have back doors into their systems."
Because they're obligated by law to disavow knowledge. Too bad the docs say otherwise.
All that is true. But the government also has that access from Google and Apple and other American companies. Honestly there is no privacy in technology as those companies dominate all consumer electronics as well as services.
Living in America there is no liberty after 9/11. Wooo Patriot Act
Benjamin Franklin Said it best when he said, "Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserves neither."
Who cares? I for one don't. Never had the child like belief that the government would not spy on those it deems of interest. Get over it we all have very little privacy.
Funny, only a child would fail to understand that in this day and age pretty much everyone is considered a "person of interest." These PRISM docs pretty much confirm that: they're spying on everyone by pretty much any means possible, and only a child (or an idiot) would willingly give them another means.
"Get over it."
Sad to see that you've "gotten over" your civil liberties. Some of us, however, have not.
You all realize that The PS4 (and PS3 and PS2 and every other electronic communication device, dating back to the mid 1990s) has a backdoor built into it, by law, if it is sold in the U.S. You lost your privacy before most of you were born.
Consider the whole ordeal with the league of legends player getting busted for his posts on Facebook. Now consider all of the 12 year olds screaming and yelling some of the most ridiculous obscenities on COD... I think we're going to need a new Guantanamo Bay for all of these "terrorists".
And if they're going to have all the information they want about our lives I think it's time they stop keeping so many "classified" secrets from us. I mean if we did the same thing, hack companies databases for personal information, we would go to jail. So much for justice and living in a free country.
If your fears are that strong I have an answer for you. Don't buy it idiots. That was not so hard was it? I for one am going to get it and will have zero fear of being spied on.
Oh look we have another dumb matrick here. Just get a 360 lol. You M$ fanboys are a disease to the game industry. You'll gladly kill your mother if M$ said it was cool to do so.
Edit: lol cry more. No one wants this spy box. Don't hate just jump shit while the boat is half sunk.
Oh look we have an idiot that has nothing better to do than reply to a dumb maverick. Learn how to spell something other than your name. By the way it is jump ship I do believe you must be in bed by now little boy. And do work on your 3rd grade spell test. lol
to be honest I find this has reached a new level of ridiculousness Rim are legally required all over the world to keep a record of all messages sent by BBM along sender and receiver details, every ISP on the planet is legally required to keep a record of every subscribers browsing history and emails and people are worried about a game console ffs
As soon as we bought on the ideal of the electronic age we lost our privacy. Cellphones, computers, atm machines, credit cards to name a few. All things are logged and recorded somewhere. Too late to worry about it now. And a game toy is their biggest concern? Fanboy has gone to a new level.
The difference is access. There is no warrant required if you already have a backdoor. ISPs have to release info after a warrant is received, the companies in bed with the NSA have already passed the info on in realtime, completely out of their control. If a warrant exists in this scenario it is purely for perception, as they already have the requested info archived.
This has ZERO to do with requested information by govt agencies, but this is used by the media to distract on the real issue of illegal permanent access. This issue is unwarranted information collection for later use.
I wish the world would wake up. These govts and companies have proven time and time again, if they can do it, you can be assured they are doing it.
When all this went down the companies mentioned went into damage control and released the numbers through legit avenues, e.g. Yahoo was 11,000 records or something. All the others did as well. NONE of this had anything to do with the actual topic of illegal info collection outside of these requested records. Then the mass media reported hey look, it isn't that bad, the problem is, it is looking at the wrong list as these companies do not even have a list for this. I think EVERYTHING is a bit more than just bad, it is as bad as it can get. They store EVERYTHING in realtime for later use, completely out of control of MS, Google etc..
Sony is not a US company, I doubt the NSA has a back door into their data collection. This has nothing to do with complying to anything, this is about the information illegally collected and stored well before any (legal) warrant even existed. The idea is collect and store everything they can, not just specific things, everything and then it is available at a later date.
The is a big difference between Sony (Japanese) and MS, Google, Yahoo etc.(US). The difference is the back door.
Funny thing is all of those things are completely independent of kinect and are all available on smart phones tablets and computers.
Like I have said before this is an issue for stupid people and sony fanboys to stir up the stupid people. I know what real data mining is and this aint it. And the fact that you would be concerned with this over the real stuff just shows you are already got. You clearly dont know where you are and what is happening. Your small brain can only process the most rudimentary of problems and scenarios. This makes it easy for the institutions that could really be an issue.
You have no idea and you are calling other people stupid? It is about the illegal recording and ARCHIVING of personal information that can be used against you even if you have done nothing wrong. It is not about you, it is about them. Kinect is always on.
Stupid is trusting these companies with our personal lives yet you think stupid is having a problem with it.
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All knee jerk reactions aside, I'm surprised that many people are surprised by intelligence agencies gathering information like this. Certainly, I can see why Microsoft was legally obliged to do so but these agencies most likely have a lot more information about you than you know.
If you're a Muslim living in the West, for jninstance, you should confidently assume that your activity is being tracked to an even more significant degree as 'security concerns' provide such agencies an excuse to document what you do
" The company reiterated its argument that it provides customer data "only in response to government demands and we only ever comply with orders for requests about specific accounts or identifiers".
Surely this is common sense? Do not be surprised if Sony are compelled to do the same.
Or say you're a party type of guy now, but you clean yourself up in the future and are vying for a high profile position. Well your opponent or someone in their camp has access to this past information and decides to discredit you with it.
These are just a couple of very real scenarios. Privacy is a constitutional right, and no government or corporation has any right to trample on it.
You might be fine with your everyday life being a open book, but many are not!
ur incredibly ignorant and foolish to think Sony wouldn't give up your info if requested.. Just because one company is talked about doesn't mean it doesnt applies to every other company in the USA..
Or they can tap your phone..spy on you from space..
This kinect paranoia is just sensationalized bullshit.. Nobody complained about the move or kinect in the past when they could have been used for the same purpose
What's even more amazing is hearing some of the stuff people have said on Facebook or Twitter. Some people just don't have any common sense.
This concern about Kinect doesn't even matter to 99.99% of the people who will use it. So why would anyone care in the first place other than to fear-monger and make it sound like they are spying on all of us.
What have I got to hide???
WHAT DO THEY NEED TO SEE?????
"Land of the free" ???
The Fourth Amendment? Protection against unwarranted search and seizure????
Go be a slave in some other country, patriots like myself have ideals and a constitution to protect.
Uh...maybe his personal space, family life, siblings, personal belongings? Just cause you welcome strangers looking into your personal life doesn't mean the next man does. Frankly there's no way in hell I'm having a kinect under my roof for the reasons above.
Ironic? How would that be ironic???
Sarcastic, maybe. If microsoft or the US/UK government wanna watch me sitting in my boxers playing Killer Instinct, they're more than welcome.
When Abu Quatada pops round for a cup of tea and a discussion on How we will enforce Sharia law on the infidels, we'll just pop to the dining room, switch the power off at the wall.
Ha! Take that Microsoft /s
Ah, the generic scare tactic response. There you have it people. The logic of a fanboy when asked whether he minds giving up his privacy rights for the latest Halo.
Gamers: "Um, guys, there are rumors that Xbox One is going to be always online"
MS loyalists: "Tinfoil hat! There's no way they'd do that"
Gamers: "Um, guys, there are rumors that Microsoft is going to make the XBox 720 an all-in-one media box that doesn't focus on gaming"
MS loyalists: "Tinfoil hat!"
Gamers: "Um, guys, there are rumors you won't be able to trade or sell or lend or rent your games on Xbox One"
MS Loyalists "Hahah! Tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists! What's next? Oh, oh, lemme guess: Mattrick will leave Xbox and Kinect will be required? Hahahha!"
I wish I was crazy guys. :(
None of this operates in a vacuum. Legal obligations bind everyone, including Sony. This isn't tin foil stuff....this is called having a basic awareness of the society we live in.
"None of this operates in a vacuum."
Exactly. The Xbox One's camera requirement casts this news in a light that goes far beyond "well, they were legally obligated to do it".
So, I don't see what your issue is. Microsoft was never forced to create a console with a camera requirement, were they?
Just by virtue of its design, the Kinect is coming under fire? Is it so hard to believe that the Kinect requirement is genuinely a design for the benefit of the console/tech as opposed to this?
People are suppose to be innocent until proven guilty in America, but clearly that is no longer true. Yet people think it is a good idea to bring in a high quality camera into their homes that is recording all of their personal interactions and broadcasting it to a company via the internet? Wake up people before those stupid jokes you make land you in jail.
Look at Google in contrast... Google refused similar requests and would not turn over user data... http://www.techspot.com/new...
everyone deserves private life to remain private
And please stop pretending like MS has never been hacked before.
@ironwolf: rootkits, while an a-hole move by Sony, weren't put there to data mine your personal data, they were put there to protect Sonys intellectual property. What Microsoft is doing with the NSA does nothing of the sort, so it's comparing apples and oranges. Again nice try though.
no CC data was stolen, as it was all encrypted, and there certainly hasn't been *any* instance of anyone's CC info being used maliciously as a result of the hack. furthermore, sony never said anyone's data had been stolen. they maintained the entire time that there was only the possibility that some information *might* have been compromised.
Maybe what they meant to say was "we may have lost this lawsuit"?
Stop making excuses for them.. This isn't an opinion.. Its a fact..
If you don't like it don't buy the products its s simple as that.
I assume your principles relating to privacy will mean you are also boycotting Google and Facebook? Actually, what are you doing on the Internet right now... You're being watched remember.....
Slap Microsoft and X1 on it though, this websites ears perk up.
I don't use Facebook or any similar services.
I use http://www.StartPage.com for searches.
I'm diligent about controlling app access on my phone (which is an older BlackBerry) and my computers.
But hey, keep bending over and get ready for that Xbone.
EDIT: @ironwolf, I have a camera but no GPS.
we are all free....... to do what the government says
Keep in mind that the US gov lied vehemently every step of the current NSA scandal. This means that fundamentally the US government is not above being corrupt. This just leads me to the next obvious conclusion....if you or yours is in the way of the US gov.....you could easily be "moved". Fabrication manufactured to fit the agenda of big gov, big corps or maybe illuminati if you believe in such things.
How's this a MS or Kinect problem? Because MS is every bit as shady as US gov. More so likely. Skype anyone?
Countries need to step back and see that big US corps are perhaps not a reliance worth having if their citizens value privacy.
And certainly, all country's have survalliance. But laws are in place so this isn't abused (at least that's the intent)......
If I was say France.....I'd figure out a way to control MS data before it reached their servers. But how?
in one scenario, you are going through people’s stuff to sell them shit, in the other the government of your country demands access to people’s stuff.
I dont think any US based company can say no to the US government.
that said, im not happy about all of this crap but i think if you want to blame someone, it should be the government and not the tech companies. Im pretty sure they have access to everything so you know…
From the Guardian:
"• The company worked with the FBI this year to allow the NSA easier access via Prism to its cloud storage service SkyDrive, which now has more than 250 million users worldwide"
The powah of teh clowd!
"• Skype, which was bought by Microsoft in October 2011, worked with intelligence agencies last year to allow Prism to collect video of conversations as well as audio"
Bu-bu-but... they can't record you because they can't store all the data! (Oh, the new facility in Utah can store yottabytes of data? Oh... um... well... Xbox, watch Price is Right! Pretty cool, huh? Huh?")
"The company reiterated its argument that it provides customer data "only in response to government demands and we only ever comply with orders for requests about specific accounts or identifiers"."
Well isn't that nice. Okay, so that's the only time that MS "provides" the information (whenever they're asked, great safeguard there). What about information that isn't "provided," but that the NSA just takes of their own volition, considering the docs admit they have pretty direct access to MS systems?
"Since Prism's existence became public, Microsoft and the other companies listed on the NSA documents as providers have denied all knowledge of the program and insisted that the intelligence agencies do not have back doors into their systems."
Because they're obligated by law to disavow knowledge. Too bad the docs say otherwise.
Living in America there is no liberty after 9/11. Wooo Patriot Act
Benjamin Franklin Said it best when he said, "Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserves neither."
"Get over it."
Sad to see that you've "gotten over" your civil liberties. Some of us, however, have not.
Edit: lol cry more. No one wants this spy box. Don't hate just jump shit while the boat is half sunk.
This has ZERO to do with requested information by govt agencies, but this is used by the media to distract on the real issue of illegal permanent access. This issue is unwarranted information collection for later use.
I wish the world would wake up. These govts and companies have proven time and time again, if they can do it, you can be assured they are doing it.
When all this went down the companies mentioned went into damage control and released the numbers through legit avenues, e.g. Yahoo was 11,000 records or something. All the others did as well. NONE of this had anything to do with the actual topic of illegal info collection outside of these requested records. Then the mass media reported hey look, it isn't that bad, the problem is, it is looking at the wrong list as these companies do not even have a list for this. I think EVERYTHING is a bit more than just bad, it is as bad as it can get. They store EVERYTHING in realtime for later use, completely out of control of MS, Google etc..
Sadly this is something limited to US companies
And you think Sony America isn't doing similar stuff? They are obliged to comply with national agencies.
This is what you get for voting in big government sympathises.
The is a big difference between Sony (Japanese) and MS, Google, Yahoo etc.(US). The difference is the back door.
Funny thing is all of those things are completely independent of kinect and are all available on smart phones tablets and computers.
Like I have said before this is an issue for stupid people and sony fanboys to stir up the stupid people. I know what real data mining is and this aint it. And the fact that you would be concerned with this over the real stuff just shows you are already got. You clearly dont know where you are and what is happening. Your small brain can only process the most rudimentary of problems and scenarios. This makes it easy for the institutions that could really be an issue.
You have no idea and you are calling other people stupid? It is about the illegal recording and ARCHIVING of personal information that can be used against you even if you have done nothing wrong. It is not about you, it is about them. Kinect is always on.
Stupid is trusting these companies with our personal lives yet you think stupid is having a problem with it.