Rockstar co-founder explains why the game world is so big
It is also the next step of open world gaming. Bigger maps with more content and detail
Except, how will they get over the RAM limitations? GTA 4 ran into the problem of having the same two cars (usually taxis, which kind of fit with the atmosphere) over and over again. Very rarely was there a mix of different cars on the screen at once. Also, when police chases started civilian cars usually disappeared off the road when you were on foot. I love that they're making things bigger and better but there are still technical roadblocks there. Just Cause 2, Mercenaries 2 and every other open world game had the same problem. I'm really curious how they'll solve this issue?
The solution would be new console models with better hardware or a PC. Just leave it to Rockstar, they will figure it out, hopefully. I mean, they always have :)
[email protected] Stronger hardware is the brute-force solution. The fool's solution. This is exactly why it's a GOOD thing the new generation isn't upon us. Want to know how Rockstar got around this? By coding a better engine to accomplish what they wanted on more limited hardware. That's how games evolve. Limitations breed creativity, and all that.
More efficient 3D model and texture storage, loading and unloading.
Actually, "technical wizardy" like mega texturing is all well and good, but in reality there is a limit to what you should NEED to do in the respect. If what you are saying is really true, why doesnt GTA4 run on an ipad, or why doesnt wow move to consoles? Because in the end, after all the techincal wizardy you can muster, there is a real limit to your creativity when hardware simply wont handle your idea. Case and point: Tons of well written Skyrim mods, that do things like spawn extra enemies, that consoles simply cannot handle. No amount of rewriting AI routines is going to get you another 25 guys on the screen of your xbox, while my PC Skyrim often has battles with dozenss of enemies on both sides, dragons, spiders, skeletons, and anything else from that game you can think of battling. It is simply to much processing for an xbox or ps3 to accomplish. If what you are saying is true, why are we not satisfied with the graphics of the nes era as todays standard? Because, inevitably, peoples ideas outstrip modern hardware, and no amount of elitist ideology you can summon can deny that.
•1) It's R* •2) The lead platform is ps3, expect it to be like one Of it's exclusives.
Good points by some of the posters. I definately agree that limitations breed creativity. But it's also a double edge sword. Limitations can also compromise a developers vision. There is also the law of diminishing returns arguement at play here. Rockstars seems to find a good balance and it's good to see devs coding become more and more efficient before new hardware is released. The good news is the efficiency will carry across into next gen. That's a win.
Don't play the PS3 version. Problem solved.
@SolDojo Those are excellent points, and it's funny you should mention AI because GTA 4 had some really good AI...they flanked, they laid down suppression fire and even tried using the environment to an advantage. However, one thing I noticed was that if you were engaged in a shootout, everything else around you kind of came to a halt to accommodate the AI who were in "combat" mode. I agree that there are technical ceilings they hit that eventually creates diminishing returns, and even with more "efficient" model, shader, texture and routine storage, we're still looking at the same limits. There have been some good responses, but the hardware limitations does have me cautious, especially given that GTA 5 is a lot better looking than vanilla Skyrim and we all know what kind of problems Bethesda ran into trying to squeeze that game onto consoles.
It only makes sense to "accommodate" for jets and air vehicles. It would be dumb to fly across the game in 10 seconds.
mod challenge accepted
Agreed, if Rockstar can pull this off, they've made a huge leap in Open World.
I am still not convinced about this...The 360 and PS3 lack of RAM is what is holding games back, it hard to belive that R* has found a solution to this,I know some people are saying that the solution is a better engine but it just does not make sense for R* to invest in a currrent gen engine when its almost over. You would think that the graphics would take a massivr hit to acomodate the large map and also maintain the the envirment that GTA4 had but from the screen shots that we have seen GTA5 looks way better than GTA4. I really hope this is true that R* csn give us a huge open world game with lots of modes and cutomization and beautful graphics and a world that feels real. Skyrim was huge but the graphics took a hit and the world felt very copy and paste " I took an arrow to the knee" almost drove me nuts.
Rockstar could have done this with IV, but they were bought off by MS, so they couldnt make a version that wouldn't make the 360 version look inferior. Rockstar wanted IV to have multiple discs and mandatory install for the 360 version, but MS wouldnt let it happen, which caused the size of IV to suffer. Luckily, MS now wastes all thier money on COD DLC and advertisement, so it has given rockstar a lot more freedom to do what that want with GTA, which is how it should be.
@Pushagree That's the biggest load of bull crap, dude. The "size" of GTA 4 had nothing to do with MS. There were even a few things the PS3 version had, media wise, that the 360 version did not. Also, the 360 version was gimped pretty badly when it came to smeared texture resolutions. Knight_Crawler is right, it wasn't disc space so much as it was RAM, and both the 360 and PS3 have problems with limited memory access for games that look good. Think about it, the only games that look as good as GTA V are linear corridor shooters. Just Cause 2 looked great but there was almost NOTHING on the screen save for one or two cars every once in a while. The world was not living or breathing like a Rockstar game, which was how they could afford to make it so expansive. What Rockstar is saying, though, applies to next-gen consoles...a lot of people here don't know how tech works and for the people who are worried about the game due to the current gen consoles' limitations (i.e., the 360's lack of storage space and both the 360 and PS3's lack of RAM) makes it hard for me to believe that the game will turn out the way Rockstar says it will. Just as Knight Crawler mentioned, even Skyrim took a huuuge hit in graphics to accommodate its world for 360 and PS3. Unless GTA V comes with a RAM expansion pack (ala Zelda Majora's Mask) there's no way the game will look that good and have all those features.
Except 99.9% of the map will probably be lifeless terrain, if GTA4 is any indication. Give me a map half the size of the one in GTA4 and give it life, and I would be much happier.
Maybe the enviroment wont be lifeless.
In the real world 99% of the countryside looks lifeless anyway. What should they do populate it with clowns to keep you amused?
....yea. Because we didn't see pets, people rollerblading, biking, hiking, sun bathing etc. LOL!
I could see loading times being seriously long. I also expect a huge install to counter much of that.
My HDD is ready! Bring it! I'm excited for GTA V in April 2013.
maybe its me being greedy but i can't wait to see what RS can achieve with next gen systems also they will have to design a new world unless they go back to vice city lol RS are the best developers for open world games imo
There is a theory that postulates we are already living within a Rockstar game from 6th gen.
No, this is just the stpe that should had been made with GTAIV. Rockstar made the decision to make a GTA game with the same space they made there last GTA game (something you clearly see went wrong with GTAIV) Is it cause MS's small format? Yes and no. I've blamed MS for a LONG time for GTAIV being so damn gimped, but in reality RockStar didn't need to make it on the 360, make it on 1 disk or make it not an install on the HDD, they choose to do all of that and what came from it was the worst GTA game to date. I've played this series since GTAII and I have to tell you, GTAIV is the worst GTA. After GTAV, there is ZERO reason to pop back in IV. GTAV seems to cleary fix that issue, but for whom? GTAIV could had be made a PS3/PC game and BEEN what GTAV is now, but they chose to lesson, limit, in order to get it on 2 systems at once day and date. But what was given was clearly not what you see in GTAV. So we got less of a GTA game because they wanted sales.....thats pretty much it. To say they wanted to do something "different" is just quite dumb. They pushed and stretched what they could get away with on 2 systems. Thats what GTAIV is. I'm calling that GTAV will be a mandatory install with about 3 to 4 disk if not more on 360. There is a reason why GTAIV was limited and small (1 DVD9 disk), GTAV seems to not have that issue (thus its quite obvious its not on a single DVD9 disk)
Hearing more and more about this game has brought me tears of joy :') I can't wait to pick this game up :D
I'm going to do everything imaginable to my V disc.
When you say everything. Do you mean "everything"? lol
I can't wait for this game, GTA V is going to be the best game this gen imo.
I can say that Rockstar Games is my favorite developer, they try not to make a inevitable technical achievement, but instead listen to it's fans for feedback on improving it's games.
Using that logic GTA V will feature Jetpacks, Gunship Helicopters and UFO's. I really hope it does.
If they did listen that phone wouldnt be back.
Ahhh I disagree. The phone became really annoying in GTAIV, but that's because they didn't implement it well. But the mobile phone is such an integral part of modern culture, it really can't be left out. So i'm glad they've reassessed the whole mobile phone thing in order to change its function in the game so as to not be f***ing annoying, but instead to actually add to the immersion and integration of the city they're building.