ARS: Microsoft has been more than coy about its upcoming motion control hardware, known at the moment as Project Natal. Some members of the press, more fortunate than we are, have seen it, although their coverage could only include images of the writers, not the hardware or the game itself. In some demos last year Peter Molyneux helped the reporters play with the creepy virtual boy, Milo, who could name the color of the writer's shirt, among other parlor tricks.
In other words, there just isn't much information or hands-on impressions to be had with Project Natal, and the main challenge Microsoft faces at this year's E3 is not only to make the hardware real for the press and the readers at home, but to convince readers that this is something they need to buy this holiday season. That may be a bigger challenge than everyone assumes.
The most notable reveal would perhaps by the requirements of the Xbox 360 console itself. While Microsoft has insisted since the original unveiling of Kinect at the Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) in 2009, then known as Project NATAL, that the device would be compatible with all Xbox 360 consoles, the revelation of a dedicated port included on the newly redesigned Xbox 360 model has sparked rumours of incompatibility, which were quickly debunked.
Replies(12)
odd, i was led to believe it lacked an internal processor and so also needed a core to itself, if not 1-2 processing threads.
The article says nothing about whether the processor is internal or it uses the 360s.
Also, the notion of a dedicated port really lends nothing to the idea of older units being incompatible. I believe the kinect port is a custom usb port (think the original xbox controller ports) but one that will feed power and data.
Older models will require a splitter that will run off a single usb port (prob the back one) that will work for the data but not the power. That is why they keep saying it will have an external power for those systems.
As for the processor, combo of both makes sense. Using 360 cpu/gpu power to help calculate the finished product on screen along with the cpu in the kinect.
Remember people...this is not a cheap usb web cam (like the original live vision).
They say they are using 10-15% of one 360 P4 cores. I know that the Kinect we see today is a watered down version of the patented tech they bought and own. Maybe one day the " real " tech will be cost effective. It still is very impressive tech even without a super computer running it.
No, the previous artical said they removed a processor, but I would guess that it had more than 1 to start with. So it will have some form of processor still within it. Arm9 or Cortex M3, all dirt cheap now but powerful.
Does it matter? They showed Forza Kinect that looked amazing working with Kinect real time!
Are you just talking about how the graphics are able to look amazing while working with Kinect? If that's what you're talking about, ok. The game itself, though, well... I think I'll stick with the real Forza, with an Xbox 360 control pad. The limited-control Kinect Forza they showed doesn't look like it's worth any attention, in my opinion. Why would anyone want to control a car like that, with hands held out and holding onto nothing, with no control over acceleration or braking? Just seems totally pointless to me.
You guy know that the motion tech is from prime sense right? Please go to their web site primesense.com,and have a look at what they say the tech can do. It can read fingers well enough to type with each finger and can be used while sitting. No one ever said it has to scan the entire body to work. What we have seen from kinect so far is not all it is capable of.
Reading these specs and trying to compare them to PSeye is pointless, because they are different types of cameras and provide completely differnt types of info to the consoles (Kinect is a 3D camera and provides 3D images. PSeye is a 2D camera and provides 2D images). Per Primsense, the camera is capable of providing video at 60fps, but the 3D is 30fps. The specs for 2 players active is for full body scans. There are no specs given for people sitting and just using their hands.
This tech is obviously a work in progress and has yet to be fleshed out. I suggest all you N4G Kinect experts, research before you post you doom and gloom so you atleast have solid facts for you skepticism. You can also relax and see what M$ does with the tech insteat of pretending to know more that the people developing the tech.
The game was available for people to try on the show floor at E3 so yes it was real time. Wetter you like it for Forza or not wasn't my point.
That is up to the developer to figure out.
So pretty much the same spec as the PS Eye, although I thought the eye went up to 120 Hertz...
The eye goes to 60Hz i think. Regardless the eye should be capable to do any Kinect shown so far with less lag. (they revolve on a 2D axis and only use the depth tracking to separate players.) I am really disappointed by the tech and how it is utilised thus far.
More or less powerful we need to see the product.
So far it seem the pseye can do anything kinect can do.
2d 3d I not yet see the advantage.
no, the PSEye cannot do 3D tracking. Kinect can.
the PSEye does 2D motion recognition, Kinect does 3D motion tracking. they are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things.
Going from alkaline to lithium was a significant step for batteries, but at the end of the day it is just a battery. PSEye and Kinect are kind of the same way. At the end of the day it is a game camera - with camera games.
@Sheikh Yerbouti: your example is not really on the same scale of difference as PSEye/Kinect.
a better example using batteries would be the jump from standard batteries to rechargable batteries. theyre both doing the same thing - being batteries - but one of them does things that the other one cannot possibly do, which is be recharged and used again. it does everything the standard battery does, and more.
Kinect does everything the PSEye does (2D motion recognition), and more (3D motion tracking). no amount of software updates can change the hardware in the PSEye, and the hardware is not capable of 3D motion tracking as it lacks infra-red.
Yes i see your point but how you guys feel about the PS3 can be said the same way.
The PS3 may produce better graphics and be more powerful then the Xbox360, but by the end of they day its still only a console. Also inferior to PC :)
... PSeye can do 3d as you say... even eyetoy... they used shadows and other stuff to recognize it.
Move is also 3d...
Lithium batteries are rechargeable batteries.
Kinect isn't a true 3D camera - it can't render a picture of your butt if you are always facing front. It makes an approximate 3D model using visual cues. The PSEye can do the same, although it will be cruder.
Plus, just because the technology is different, doesn't necessarily mean gameplay will be.
@lams12
Yes, you're right. Similarly Kinect will have some good games, different from PSEye, only if Microsoft makes them. But they haven't made games too different from the PSEye.
Which is what i meant from the start. None of the games they have shown so far could not have been on the PS Eye.
"Tracks up to 6 people, including 2 active players"
I think now its official that just 2 ppl can play at the same time.
Only room for two anyway when you think about it...
but it can keep track of six people during a game in regards to facial recognition. I think that's impressive.
I would love to have Kinect built into my laptop, so only I can get in even without a password. Why is Microsoft wasting this on the XBox again?
still couldn't play it sitting down. Honestly, some guys are so easily impressed by copy cat technology.
i was at the engadget show and kudo showed its 3d tracking and when two people where on screen......one person would be red while the other would be green.......but as soon as a third person steped into the camera view two people automatically turned gray and it couldnt read their movements well.
what i took away from that event is that the kinect is pretty kool but for right now it can only work with two people(they could still be working on it)
Xbox Evolved:
"Microsoft is holding no breaks in making sure the general public knows all about Kinect. What cooler spot to also show it than with Jimmy Fallon? "
although i usually watch fallon. i'll have to catch an internet clip of it later.
I'm sure it's just the usual marketing stuff, so nothing really interesting. Pretty much learned everything about the device at E3.
The more I see this targeted at non-gamers, the sadder I get.
I want a Kinect game I can be *proud* to own as a gamer. One day.
I saw it full of lag. The girls was standing there and her character just started twitching out of control.
Plus you can clearly see the game is full of Lag. Regardless though i don't care...its a piece of tech directed to casual gamers so kudos to MS for this. Unfortunately i don't fall into the casual crowd so this does not interest me one bit.
What does interest me though is a cheaper 360 slim with a hard drive and wifi capablities for 50 or maybe 100 bucks cheaper
was pretty funny. same demos they showed at E3 though. Nothing new. But they sure are marketing it quick.
Yeah they did the same thing the day after they announced Natal last year with Good Morning America and Fallon back when it was called Natal. No doubt this thing will sell I suspect. Will it succeed technically though is the question
wow first that girl's co-worker hosts the Kinect event and now she's her playing it. I see the audience Microsoft is definitely going after with Bieber, Cosgrove and McCurdy - teenage pop audiences.
Meodia writes, "So about a year ago when Project Natal was first starting off, many Xbox 360 and even other gamers were worried about the future of their console. A local shovelware dumping ground didn't sound quite appealing and Natal looked like it would serve extra servings of it. But Microsoft reassured us, holding our hands and telling us that everything would be alright. Since then, nothing has changed. After that "conference" at E3, we were shown nothing but how to please little girls."
Bubbles to you sir.
I'm extremely aggravated about this Kinect business. I mean, look at the image in the article. Those are the games for Kinect's future. Do we want to be playing those?
"Wait until E3"
"Wait until Gamescon"
"Wait until release"
"Wait until next E3"
"Wait until...."
So if we want core games, the best option is the waiting game?
hey ms remember this list from tgs 09?
Activision Blizzard, Bethesda Softworks, Capcom Co. Ltd, Disney Interactive, Electronic Arts, Konami, MTV Games, Namco Bandai, Sega, Square Enix, THQ Inc. and Ubisoft
>:(
Behind closed doors being shown to paid celebrities who could care less about gaming.... if there's even any at all.
It needs buttons. There is only a limited a limited amount of things you can accomplish through gesture recognition.
Obviously Kinect is a casual device designed for those gamers first and foremost and that is the message MS wanted to send at E3 much to the angst of the core. And they have been saying all year that is what to expect.
I am going to give it some time because I don't think MS are going to ignore their core for long. And in the mean time enjoy my controller on games like Gears 3, Reach, Fable 3, Kingdoms, Black Ops, etc etc on the 360.. Not even going to mention my plate for the other systems I own.. There is just no time to play it all. (heaven?)
Don't you see ? hardcore games are coming ..just now they annonced .. BURGER KING !!
............
neverming .
It's funny because after the Microsoft conference, we actually saw some. In fact, I'm surprised that they showed off the shovelware they did, and then an hour later Sonic Freedom Riders and Child of Eden were shown off and completely destroyed what Microsoft displayed.
Child of Eden is a multiplat, and do you have any gameplay vids of Sonic (I honestly want to see how it works).
@Orange Juice, Ah, I see. Looks kinda simple though. wouldn't really call it a core game.
@Arnon, if that's the case then Kinect really does have the edge in that game... but that's just one game. MS needs to show a LOT more.
http://n4g.com/news/546595/...
There you go
EDIT Now that I watch the gameplay closely its most likely a game for kids. I couldnt see an adult "hardcore" gamer playing this game for an extended period of time.
Child of Eden is multiplat, but it's exclusive to Kinect in regards to motion controls. The developer Tetsuya Mizuguchi does not have a dev kit for Move.
http://www.computerandvideo...
gotta agree, MS is exactly like nintendo 2 years ago. hey, what ever happened to that dumb ass vitality sensor.
The key to Natal/Moves success is the price, imho. If Natal sells at 150$, no one will buy it, apart from the rich folk...
Imho, 50-60$ is the right price for natal... if they want it to sell well.
at your local game store, it showcases Natal/Wave and what it can do. Communicating with friends, playing games, etc. All without a controller.
In the case of a driving game, driving without a steering wheel, who wants that? If the whole purpose of next gen games is to make you feel more "immersed," I would think you would want a controller or steering wheel.
Solid games at launch are critical to Natal's image and short term success...one thing motion controls have taught the gaming world/mainstream is that you don't need it until the games are there...there's no rush to buy...the Wii launch was magic in a bottle, but lessons were learned...now the Wii has great AAA games launching all around Natal, which is definitely going to put pressure on its launch....
that being said, i respect all of The Big 3 for various reasons and i can't wait to see what's coming in the not so distant future...
The article says there haven't been very many hands on impressions of Natal, but then quotes Gizmodo and Engadget and their "promising" reactions. There have been several several several "hands on impressions." We've seen at least one a week since the beginning of the year. And a good majority of them are very favorable of the technology (even though it's just Burn Out and Ricochet).
Even though MS is slow-playing Natal, these media events that demonstrate Natal are being completely ignored by the rest of the media. (as well as gamers)
If a majority of devs and media sites have praised Natal, I have no doubt that it will be favorable by a majority of the gaming public.