330°

Nvidia DLSS 3.7 drives a further nail in the coffin of native performance

Nvidia DLSS 3.7 is the latest update to the long-running AI upscaling technology, and it further shows native performance doesn't matter.

Create Report !X

Add Report

Reports

+ Updates (1)- Updates (1)

Updates

Changed from Pending to Approved
Community64d ago
DustMan64d ago

I think hardware development is at a point where they need to figure out how to draw less power, These beefy high end cards eat wattage, and I'm curious if using DLSS & AI in general will lower the power draw. It would seem like the days of just adding more VRAM & horsepower is over. Law of diminishing returns. Pretty soon DLSS/FSR will be incorporated into everything, and eventually the tech will be good enough to hardly notice a difference if at all. AI is the future and it would be foolish to turn around and not incorporate it at all. Reliance on AI is only going to pick up more & more.

Tapani63d ago (Edited 63d ago )

DLSS certainly lowers power consumption. Also, the numbers such as the 4090 at 450W does not tell you everything, most of the time the GPU stays between 200-350W in gameplay, which is not too different from the highest end GPU of 10 years ago. Plus, today you can undervolt + OC GPUs by a good margin to keep stock performance while utilizing 80% of the power limit.

You can make the 4090 extremely power efficient and keep 90% of its performance at 320W.

However, in today's world the chip manufacturing is limited by physics and we will have power increases in the next 5-10 years at the very least to keep the technology moving forward at a pace that satisfies both businesses and consumers.

Maybe in 10 years we have new tech coming to the markets which we are yet to invent or perhaps we can solve existing technologies problems with manufacturing or cost of production.

On the other hand, if we were to solve the energy problem on earth by utilizing fusion and solar etc. it would not matter how much these chips require. That being said, in the next 30-40 years that is a pipedream.

MrBaskerville63d ago

I don't think fusion is the way forward. It will mosy likely be too late when it's finally ready, meaning it will probably never be ready. Something else might arrive before though and then it becomes viable.

Firebird36063d ago

We need to stop the smear campaign on nuclear energy.
We could power everything forever if we wanted too.

Tacoboto64d ago

PS4 Pro had dedicated hardware in it for supporting checkerboard rendering that was used significantly in PS4 first party titles, so you don't need to look to PC or even modern PC gaming. The first RTX cards released nearly 6 years ago, so how many nails does this coffin need?

InUrFoxHole64d ago

Well... its a coffin man. So atleast 4?

Tacoboto64d ago

PSSR in the fall can assume that role.

anast63d ago

and those nails need to be replaced annually

Einhander197264d ago

I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is, but PS4 Pro was before DLSS and FSR, and it still provides one of the highest performance uplifts while maintaining good image quality.

DLSS is it's own thing but checkerboarding om PS5 still is a rival to the likes of FSR2.

Tacoboto64d ago

Um. That is my point. That there have been so many nails in this "native performance" coffin and they've been getting hammered in for years, even on PS4 Pro before DLSS was even a thing.

RaidenBlack63d ago

Don't know what's OP's point is either but ... checkerboard rendering was good enough for its time but in terms of image quality its wayy behind what's DLSS 3 or FSR 3 is currently offering.
The main point of the article and what OP missed here is that DLSS 3.7 is soo good that its nearly undisguisable from native rendering and basically throws the "its still blurry and inferior to native rendering" debacle, (that's been going around in PC community since 2019), right out of the window.

Einhander197263d ago

RaidenBlack

DLSS is as i said a different thing from FSR and checkerboard.

But you're talking about FSR 3 which probably is better than checkerboard, but FSR 3 has only started to get games this year, so checkerboard which was the first hardware upscaling solution was and is still one of the best upscaling solutions.

Give credit where credit is due, PlayStation was first and they got it right from the get go, and PSSR will almost certainly be better than it will be given credit for, heck digital foundry is already spreading misinformation about the Pro.

Rhythmattic63d ago

Tacoboto
Yes... Its amazing how many talekd about KZ2 deferred rendering, pointing out the explosions were lower res than the frame itself..
And of course, Then the idea of checkerboard rendering, not being native....
For sure, maybe this tech makes it minimal while pixel counting, but alas, seems performance and close enough , and not native now matters.....
I want to see it run native without DLSS.. why not?

RonsonPL64d ago

Almost deaf person:
- lightweight portable 5$, speakers of 0,5cm diameter are the final nail in coffin of Hi-Fi audio!

Some people in 2010:
- smartphones are the final nain in the console gaming's coffin!

This is just the same.
AI upscalling is complete dogshit in terms of motion quality. The fact that someone is not aware of it (look at the deaf guy example) doesn't mean the flaws are not there. They are. And all it takes to see them, is to use a display that handles motion well, so either gets true 500fps at 500Hz LCD TN or OLED (or faster tech) or uses low persistence mode (check blurbusters.com if you don't know what it means) also known as Black Frame Insertion or backlight strobing.

Also, image ruined by any type of TAA is just as "native image" as chineese 0,5$ screwdriver is "high quality, heavy duty, for professional use". It's nowhere near it. But if you're an ignorant "journalist", you will publish crap like this article, just to flow with the current.

There's no coffin to native res quality and there never will be. Eventually, we'll have enough performance in rasterization to drive 500fps, which will be a game changer for motion quality while also adding other benefit - lower latency.
And at 500fps, the amount of time required for upscalling makes it completely useless.
This crap is only usable for cinematic stuff, like cutscenes and such. Not for gaming. Beware of ignorants on the internet. The TAA is not "native" and the shitty look of the modern games when you disable any TAA, is not "native" either as it's ruined by the developer's design choice - you can cheat by rendering every 4th pixel when you plan to put a smeary TAA pass on it later on. When you disable it, you will see a ruined image, horrible pixellation and other visual "glitches" but it is NOT what native would've looked like if you'd like to honestly compare the two.

Stay informed.

RaidenBlack63d ago

Main point of the article is how far DLSS has come with v3.7 since 2018. If this is what we're getting already, then imagine what we'll get within next ~3 years. Yes parity will obviously be there compared to the then native rendering tech but it'll slowly narrow down to the point it'll be indistinguishable.
Something similar is like the genAI Sora ... AI generative videos were turd back when they were introduced (the infamous Will Smith eating video) ... but now look at Sora, generating videos that just looks like real life.

RonsonPL44d ago

You can improve quality but you will never be able to reach native quality in motion. The biggest part of why these upscallers are so praised is because they use previous frame data. You cannot do that without degrading latency and/or hurting the motion quality. If you put another flaw on top of it, coming from sample and hold method of displaying image, or coming from low framerate, sure, the difference between "screwed up image" vs. "image screwed up even more" may seem small or non-existent. But if you talk about gaming, not interactive movies, the upscallers are overhyped and harfmul tech for the gamers and the whole gaming industry. For example, a game designed around screwed up motion, like the TAA enabled games, will never be played with improved quality even 100 years later when hardware allows for native 16K res. The motion quality will be broken and even if you disable the AA pass, you will still get the broken image, cause the devs were designing their effects with smeary filter in mind - this is why you can disable TAA in some games today, manually, with some tinkering, but you get 1 to 16 understampled crap.
It's annoying that nobody seems to understand the serious drawbacks of AI assisted upscallers. Everyone just praises it and calling it a great revolution. Don't get me wrong. AI has its place in rendering. But NOT in gaming.

63d ago
Yui_Suzumiya63d ago

How much VRAM is standard today? My laptop has a 1080p QLED display but only an Intel Iris Xe with 128MB of VRAM. I currently do all my gaming on it but certain titles do suffer because of it. I plan on getting a Steam Deck OLED soon to play the newer and more demanding titles.

purple10163d ago

Maybe better to get a budget gaming laptop and link a dualsense to it

= Portable console with far better graphics than a steam deck! + bigger screen and able to use it for work / etc

70°

EA Hiring Ex-Military Personnel to Help Build Next Battlefield Game via "Hiring Our Heroes" Program

EA has hired ex-military personnel in order to help shape the next Battlefield game as part of the Hiring Our Heroes (HOH) program.

Create Report !X

Add Report

Reports

+ Updates (1)- Updates (1)

Updates

Changed from Pending to Approved
Community7h ago
OtterX9h ago(Edited 9h ago)

Why don't you Hire Your Old Dev Team who brought us the brilliance of Battlefield Bad Company 2 while you're at it. It was more exciting than anything recent in the Battlefield series. It just needs to be updated to reach modern times, but it was so great at its core.

just_looken6h ago

This would be nice but that team has tossed out the finals and has arc raiders on the back burner
https://www.pcgamer.com/ex-...

20 thousand still play the final's
https://steamcharts.com/app...

Why get slapped around by ea when you already have something going on.

What the next battlefield needs is a step back simple functional not a live service and smaller player servers than 2042. Just make it like battlefiled 3 with bad company destruction just something simple

But they already killed off ridgeline games that had ex halo/cod devs so no singleplayer unless they make another dev team for it.
https://gamerant.com/ea-bat...

Rynxie6h ago

It's what made zipper and slant six awesome. They had military vets working for them, no just as consultants, but as developers as well. I wish Sony never closed them, MAG 2 or an update to MAG and a new socom is much needed.

120°

Valve facing £656,000,000 lawsuit over claims Steam is ripping off players

The owner of Steam has been accused of overcharging 14 million PC gamers in the UK and 'shutting out' competition in a new lawsuit.

Create Report !X

Add Report

Reports

+ Updates (1)- Updates (1)

Updates

Changed from Pending to Approved
Community8h ago
Dan507h ago

Overcharging? Have these people never heard of sales?

just_looken7h ago(Edited 7h ago)

"Valve, the owner of Steam, is being sued for £656m over claims it is abusing its dominant market position to overcharge players.

The collective action claim has been filed with the UK’s Competition Appeal Tribunal by digital rights campaigner Vicki Shotbolt.

In the lawsuit, Shotbolt accuses Valve of ‘shutting out’ competition when it comes to buying PC games and DLC, which has led to 14m people in the UK being overcharged for PC games as a result.

The claim is seeking up to £44 compensation for every UK player who has bought a PC game or add-on content from June 5, 2018."

____________________________

So they are trying to take the apple/sony/xbox approach were there is only one store without ever using a pc for gaming.

Anyone with a ounce of pc gaming knowledge knows steam did nothing when competition and the launcher war happened but now every publisher that had there own launcher with games only available on that platform are slowing coming back to steam.

This "lawsuit" should be directed to launcher's like rockstar's as they have games only available on there like the gta collection or ubisoft with xdefiant heck epic launcher exclusive games. There is no grounds in which steam has locked down content to there platform except there own games though there are disc versions of those except half life alex.

Pc players still have the best choice on game buying with multiple launcher's and site that offers keys like my fav humble bundle but on the same platform we have the worst drm along with those 3rd part launcher's that need to run in the background.

anast6h ago

How about suing them for the game files that the customer should own?

Goodguy016h ago

Steam allows 3rd party apps (which I hate) and...we all know that egs is the one that keeps buying exclusivity lol. A lot of devs and consumers rely on steam hence it's very heavy support.

paulust20024h ago

If I get 44 pound from them I'll only be spending it in the steam store...fucking absurd ..one of the most ethical companies out there and largely due to them not being a public offering imo