420°

The Last of Us Co-Creator Sparks Developer Debate As He Declares Linear Games Are Easier to Make

Several developers agree with the point, and many fans are also pointing out that they prefer more guided experiences overall. “Easier to make, more creatively interesting, and not a time suck to play,” one fan said. “Sounds like a win-win to me!”

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MadLad844d ago (Edited 844d ago )

Of course they are. I absolutely love the original Last of Us, but, you play it once and you've pretty much seen everything.

It's a lot different than a game like New Vegas, Disco Elysium, or Morrowind, where there's a giant amount of content and pretty much every run could be vastly different than the last, based on your choices.

That's because choices are there.

Christopher844d ago

Other than a few collectibles, I don't know why anyone would disagree with MadLad above. MadLad didn't say you can't enjoy multiple playthroughs, only that you are going to experience the same story and situations as you did the first time. It is a linear, singular storyline game. That's not bad, but it's so good because it was less work to focus on building out other things. The quality is increased to that level because of the focus. And that's good. It's not bad. Nor is what MadLad is saying wrong.

closed_account843d ago

Yea, I always found it and the Uncharted games as replayable in the same sense as watching a favorite movie. You enjoy the experience so much, you go back and experience it again periodically. I don't feel that way for every game, but I feel these are so well paced and structured like good movies. God of War is another one I can continue to experience again from time to time.

Some people are one and done, and that's ok too.

porkChop844d ago

You can make more linear games that have replayability, choices, and different paths. You can also make smaller open worlds that are more dense and focused. Like a Dragon/Yakuza is a great example of that.

gangsta_red844d ago

"You can make more linear games that have replayability, choices, and different paths."

That's the opposite of linear

porkChop844d ago

When people say linear vs open world they often mean closed off levels rather than a big open world. Linear games don't have to essentially be corridors.

Obscure_Observer844d ago

"Linear games don't have to essentially be corridors."

I agree with gangsta here, if there´s choices, it´s not linear.

P_Bomb844d ago (Edited 844d ago )

Sifu is a linear game that has a choice at every boss. That choice doesn’t suddenly make it open. I get what pork is getting at.

outsider1624843d ago

@obscure

So Until Dawn is what open world according to you?
@gangsta
Different paths would probably be like tlou2 is. It has different paths but leads to the same point.

JackBNimble843d ago

Just because you can choose a different path , doesn't make that path less linear. It's pretty simple to understand what he's saying.

DarXyde843d ago

gangsta_red,

There is such a thing as "wide linear" which is far from open world, but not so restrictive that there is a single path. If there was a different outcome from taking a different path, that would be more open, but I would say Uncharted 4 is a fair example of wide linear in certain spots. You're going in a specific direction, but you can go straight there, cut around the left side that has more enemies and more fire fights, or the right side that has more platforming elements.

Point A to B is still predetermined, but it is a bit more flexible in how you arrive. That's wide linear.

senorfartcushion842d ago

Also what about just getting used to the combat and replaying the mission for “fun”

Actual fun.

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 842d ago
Flawlessmic843d ago

Both have there pros and cons, both produce brilliant games and also both produce dud games.

A good game is hard to make whether linear or open world.

While you may have less to populate in one which makes it easier, the way 90% of most opens world are filled isn't exactly filled with awesome stuff it's usually just filler unless that game happens to be the witcher 3 or elden ring.

Panhandler843d ago

Don't understand the dislikes Madlad. You absolutely wasn't wrong on any of your hot takes

RoseSapphire843d ago

Most open world games including those you mention, minus Disco Elysium, are also far more repetitive, reusing templates and assets in a cut and paste fashion. You often find yourself doing the same mission style over and over and over.

Bathyj843d ago (Edited 843d ago )

In assassin's Creed Odyssey I literally had the same exact fetch quest in 2 different villages. Might have even been the same NPC.

I thought man that's so lazy

Tapani843d ago (Edited 843d ago )

While I love The Last of Us, I liked Elden Ring and all of the Souls games more. Interestingly, I liked the slightly more linear souls games more in some aspects, but on others, Elden Ring was better. Perhaps, I'm a semi-open world kind of guy, the Zelda/Metroidvania type where things open up slowly and surely. The first Dark Souls was really interesting, and Demon's Souls approach, they were slightly limited, but still open. That's something I was hoping to see more in Elden Ring, locked doors and inaccessible areas from the beginning. There were a few, but given the scope of the world, it was really, really open from the beginning. It did make the 2nd playthrough interesting for a while, but having done everything on the first time around, there was no incentive to do it again.

Disco Elysium was an interesting design, semi-open world. The dialogue was the open-world aspect more than the world itself.

Games like The Last of Us have to have a top notch writing or they just do not work. Personally, maybe the God of War type game would be even more interesting, a fantastic story in a semi-open world environment.

Just openly mumbling here!!

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 842d ago
SoulWarrior843d ago (Edited 843d ago )

My biggest issue with most open world games these days is they feel like big grindy checklists, filled with the same repetitive side quests and activities or 100s of useless collectibles, they begin to feel like a slog.

Give me a well made, more linear game any day of the week, maybe something that kind of blurs the lines between both like the recent GoW games, open but still more or less linear.

Flawlessmic843d ago

Yep open linear for me anyway seems to be a best of both worlds.

Great stories, Nice spaces to explore with meaningful content.

Gow is a perfect example, jedi survivors seems to be going for this as well as does ff16.

I'm honestly just done with filler content, like I loved hogwarts legacy and finished the main while doing all castle side quests and hogsmeade ones but outside of that the rest of the world was just filler, added zero value to me.

So making an overall bigger game may be harder, it's doesn't make it better that's for sure case in point ubisoft

FinalFantasyFanatic843d ago

Considering the amount of empty, lifeless open world games we get, I would consider it easier to make linear games as you can focus all of your develop resources. Whereas open world games have a massive area to cover, especially if you want it to be good, I've only enjoyed a few open world games like HZD and BoTW personally, alot of others are easily forgettable for me.

As @Flawlessmic said, I'm done with filler content too, I have too many games and not enough time to play them, I'd rather have more fun or meaningful side quests to entice me away from the main plot.

BandarHub843d ago

The sweet spot are Linear games with some large areas for exploration.

Dudeson843d ago

In my eyes, the fable games did this quite well, although I do love a good open world game and would really like to see how/if the new fable can pull it off.

camel_toad843d ago (Edited 843d ago )

I have missed the fable series. I hope they come through.

-Foxtrot843d ago

I miss Bruce

Can’t wait to see his new game

He’s been super quiet lately with TLOU show being out but I’m glad he’s active again.

Crows90843d ago (Edited 843d ago )

He's the reason uncharted and the last of us were so good. Amy Henning as well of course.

Fro what's been said he was definitely the reason the last of us pitch was accepted. Neil druckman created the concept but couldn't get the writing and direction down. This is why tlou2 was so divisive. Bad writing.

843d ago
Godmars290843d ago (Edited 843d ago )

@Poopmeister:
"Bigot-sandwich"? Mid term pregnant being allowed to not only put herself and child in danger, but get killed? Nevermind outright lying in promotions.

Yeah, great writing...

-Foxtrot843d ago (Edited 843d ago )

I really don't know why people are disagreeing Neil / Bruce have said so many times during the time TLOU first came out in interviews, podcasts and especially Reddit AMA stuff

They bled over into each others works which is why I can't believe Bruce didn't ask to get credit for the story / writing aswell although in his defence he probably didn't think anything would happen between the two.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IA...

Neil's own mouth

"I think a lot about design and Bruce thinks a lot about story. We wrestle with ideas and make sure story is working with gameplay"

This is the story we'd have gotten if Bruce wasn't involved

https://i.redd.it/572hilrwq...

Tess as a villain, chasing Joel across America for revenge while bringing along a small army of followers with her and he beats the shit out of him in the end resulting in Ellie's first kill being her. It's literally Abby's story he recycled in Part II since Bruce was now gone. Also there was one pitch where the infection only infected woman.

Why did Bruce reject it? Because it didn't make sense and wasn't logical which Neil then agreed with.

People always say "have evidence to back your shit up" and when they get it they disagree and make excuses up anyway.

mkis007843d ago

Its funny how some of you people just decided this because you hate Druckmann. It's a weird narrative when the other 2 havent release anything since leaving sony.

LucasRuinedChildhood843d ago (Edited 843d ago )

@Foxtrot

"I can't believe Bruce didn't ask to get credit for the story / writing aswell"

So, should Bruce have argued with Amy Hennig about not getting a writing credit on Uncharted 2 as well when it was a similar situation (co-directors)?

There are rules for screenplay credits. Here's the most basic one though:
1) You have to write the script, or part of it

Neil Druckmann's writing credits: https://m.imdb.com/name/nm3...
Amy Hennig's writing credits: https://www.imdb.com/name/n...
Bruce Straley's writing credits:

"This is the story we'd have gotten if Bruce wasn't involved"

No, this was never Neil's original concept (you would play as a hardened cop who had lost his daughter, had turned criminal but became a protector of a young girl from infected). It wasn't even one of the first few versions. lol.

Tess was introduced in later iterations - this was just a single iteration which came after even weirder ones like only women being infected. That was a version called "Mankind" which Bruce had no issue with and women on staff had to argue against.

The quotes you provided present it as a mutual decision ("we", "us"). Neil was good at assessing a problem, and then revising and fixing things.

Example: the original opening for Uncharted 2 wasn't very good and then Neil fixed it and made it the iconic one we have now.

"That wasn’t our original opening, actually. It was more of a simple, linear three-act structure, which made it a bit of a slog to get into the story. It was Neil, pretty late in production, who came up with the idea to take the middle section of this train wreck and put that at the beginning." - Bruce Straley

You want to have your cake and eat it too. Bruce made Neil creative director and writer, and ran with his pitch, for a reason.

generic-user-name843d ago

Yeah, Hennig was so good she butchered U3, got U4 stuck in development hell, left ND, had her Star Wars game cancelled, then went into VR game development and created zero VR games. Then she wrote Forspoken.

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ocelot07843d ago

I have no experience in game development. But surely creating a linier game with a great story is harder than say making a open world game with a boring story (some Ubisoft games).

MadLad843d ago

It's not about being open world, necessarily. It's about creating solid storytelling that shifts the story.
Being able to create a world and story that shifts with player choices is way harder than writing a story that just goes A to B; the end.

Zhipp843d ago

I'm sure he's talking about the actual development/technical aspect, not the writing.

lcslick843d ago

Notice that you just compared making a good game with a bad game. You could literally just switch it with your logic and say it's surely harder to create an open-world game filled with exciting activities and quests that give hours of enjoyment, don't get repetitive, and also link it together with a good story (Elden Ring). Compared to making a short linear game with boring gameplay.

Compare two good games maybe TLOU and Elden Ring and see what you think. I'm not sure what I would pick tbh.. maybe Elden Ring would be harder to make.... maybe.

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40°

“It Almost Felt As If The Raidou IP Itself Had A Will Of Its Own”: Says Raidou Remastered Director

Director Kazuyuki Yamai talks about development, inspirations, and how the messaging and themes of Raidou Remastered are still relevant today.

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60°

Warhammer 40K: Rogue Trader devs praise Larian's ‘immense job’ on Baldurs Gate 3

Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader producer discusses the rise in popularity of CRPGs, but did Baldur's Gate 3 cause this?

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110°

FF14 lead apologises as the “quality of service has declined recently” as they fell into complacency

YoshiP, the director and producer of Final Fantasy 14, has apologised for the state of the game at the time of writing.

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CrimsonWing6917h ago

Do you not see this happening during development? Like, why are we apologizing after the fact instead of stopping it during development?

Stopac11h ago

Criticism and reflection occur after the fact. The apology acknowledges the past criticisms with the new expansion and they're keeping transparency with players about it. Now that they've acknowledged it - it will be interesting to see what kind of cycle we'll get with a new expansion and I wonder if they're planning something special with beast master since they didn't mention it in the last live letter.

anast16h ago

It's all good, as long as the price of the product decreases.

Stopac11h ago

The base game and expansion go on sale all the time and doesn't stay full price for very long since a new expansion is on the horizon.

If you're stating they should reduce the price of new expansions or the sub fee, no, that's not gonna happen lmao people aren't even complaining about that. They are criticizing the same old pattern of content that releases and how it is devolving into mediocracy.

anast10h ago

"They are criticizing the same old pattern of content that releases and how it is devolving into mediocracy."

The product should be cheaper then.

PapaBop15h ago

I was unhappy with DT and have spent far less time in it than any other expansion but it's things like this that makes me respect Yoshi P. It's rare for such a high profile developer to be so candid in his assessment on a live game.

Stopac11h ago

Same, i've found my self resubbing every two patches instead of keeping it up. Don't own a home in the game so there's no point in keeping a constant sub going. The post story is getting interesting though.