The PS5's best feature is finally getting the most out of the Xbox controller.

It seems the innovations of Sonys latest controller are also having a beneficial impact for Xbox gamers as well.

[CaptainHenry916]

Microsoft had the opportunity but they never took advantage of it

[darthv72]

MS took advantage... they just didnt enforce others to use it. That will change now that Sony has something similar.

[StoneyYoshi]

"MS took advantage... they just didn't enforce others to use it."
That comes off as an excuse. You may not have intended it but it comes off that way.

Sony isn't enforcing their setup either. Their implementation just happens to be much better where devs actually care since it actually adds more to the experience other than just additional rumble motors in the triggers.

[Babadook7]

Impulse triggers (in the xbox one controllers) are not the same as the resistive triggers in the Dualsense.

[Sunny_D]

The article itself says their own first party devs didn’t even use them other than Forza... they definitely could have asked them or tell them...

[mikeslemonade]

The 360, Xbox One, and Xbox Series X controller have all been better than the DS3, DS4, and DS5(dual sense). Just cause it has the resistive triggers, that doesn't make it better. That's a gimmick. The form factor, battery life, the buttons, triggers, and d-pad are still superior on the xbox controller.

People who disagree are primarily Sony fans that just primarily only play PlayStation. I play both equally and the xbox controller is simply better by a wide margin. After playing Demon Souls with the DS5, I would have had a slightly better experience had I played it on the Series X controller.

[ApocalypseShadow]

Lol. Mike you had me laughing.

You call Dual Sense a gimmick but the very form factor of Microsoft's controllers copies Sony's. The rumble built in was Sony's. Dual analogs? Sony's. Share button? Sony's. Built in speaker? Sony's. Talk about sore loser.

Just because you play Xbox more doesn't mean squat on what controller is the best. It's subjective.. But more gamers play on Sony's consoles. Way more. And you can't deny that.

Any thing you call a gimmick on Sony's controllers, you can thank Sony because Microsoft copied them and will copy again with how many controllers they made and make that added nothing to gaming.

Sony changed the game with Dual Sense and hid it from Microsoft. Now you guys are crying about it. But I'm laughing.

[SmokinAces]

"something similar". lol, good stuff.

[mikeslemonade]

^ApocalypseShadow
haha you don't even know how to debate. Notice I was only talking about the 3 latest generations. The dualshock 2 was when Sony beat the expectations with a great controller. Since then the xbox always had the better controller. And why are you talking about 1996 technology, the dual analog sticks? We aren't talking about who copied who. Simply, I'm talking about which is the better controller.

Most of you casual gamers only have one system and maybe the switch, so of course you will favor the DualSense. And yes the resistant triggers are a gimmick, what's the point of immersion when the controller is still cheaply feeling? It actually feels like I'm gonna break the triggers if I use it too often, it creates dead zones. Dualsense d-pad and buttons have dead zones in them, more so than the xbox controller.

[S2Killinit]

Maybe. It could also be because xbox’s rumble triggers arent even close to Dualsense’s haptic and adaptive triggers.

[ArchangelMike]

It's down to the devs really to implemenr this stuff. I hope Sony really pushes for devs to utilise those hapitcs.

[CaptainHenry916]

You don't have to worry about Sony first party developers implementing these features

[Neonridr]

yeah it's hoping the 3rd party jump on board.

[S2Killinit]

I find myself gravitating toward games that have made good use of it. For instance I was really two hearted about Fifa 21 but Im a little more inclined now that i know there are some Dualsense features that help with the experience.

[UnholyLight]

That is the one thing that has me really jealous I stuck with Xbox this gen for now. I have a PS4 Pro and LOVED it. I think the DualSense controller really looks like it has a leg up and is a "true next gen" controller versus the lightly revised Xbox Series controller in my hand right now.

PS5 down the road I guess, they're literally impossible to find so far.

[MazeRunner]

MS had haptic feedback for years. devs never used it. those are facts

[Pricey]

Because it was/is sh*t.

[angh]

Whatever ms had it wasn't even remotely similar to sony ds offering.

[S2Killinit]

They didnt have haptic (at least get your facts straight). They have rumble triggers, and that is NOT the same thing as the adaptive triggers on Dualsense.

[darthv72]

MS called it haptic feedback, back in 2013. I know it may not be the same as what Sony uses now but that is what it was called.

[chiefJohn117]

Actually any form of rumble/vibration is haptic feedback. You guys must not know the definition. There's different forms and variations

[StoneyYoshi]

Just to clear the air here.

hap·tic
/ˈhaptik/
the use of technology that stimulates the senses of touch and motion, especially to reproduce in remote operation or computer simulation the sensations that would be felt by a user interacting directly with physical objects.
"their research is centered on human-computer interaction specifically focusing on wearable computing, haptics, and video games"

We have had haptics since PS1 and N64.

[S2Killinit]

So we are talking semantics then? Whatever MS wants to call it. What you have on xbox is NOT what Dualsense can do. I hope that makes sense.

[darthv72]

@S2, everyone knows that. The point is haptics is an umbrella term and many things fit under it. So MS using it is correct even though it is NOT to the same advancement as Sony.

[S2Killinit]

I dont think anyone cares what they may or may not have called it. Problem is, some people are trying to make it sound like what MS has is anything like the Dualsense.

[DaveZero]

They did have haptics, they just did t use it to the extent of what Sony did, it just stayed at rumble and thank God as well.

[S2Killinit]

Lol case in point

[VariantAEC]

@S2Killinit
Minor correction. Both controllers feature "haptics." They're nit the same between the two controllers and DualSense is better by all metrics from the standpoint of technological progression. Still both are haptics.

If you want to sound smart though just let everyone know that DS features force feedback triggers and Xbox Controllers Impulse triggers have basic Eccentric Rotating Mass (ERM) motors that were imtroduced with the N64 rumble pad and basically standardized with the release of DualShock (for PS1) a few months later. DualSense's Linear Resonate Actuators (LRA) crush ERM motors haptic rumble patterns with higher response rates and feature much greater variation in vibration patterns.

Again I don't disagree just want to properly inform people.
Have a good one! 🙂

[Brazz]

They had common rumble (the same consept of og playstation) and rumble in triggers, that's very different from heptic and impulse triggers.

[VariantAEC]

Both controllers use haptics.
DualSense uses more advanced and far superior LRAs for rumble and force feedback in its triggers.
Xbox uses ERM motors for rumble and even weaker ERM motors for their Impulse triggers.

Seriously I have a PC and picked up an XBO controller to try out "Impulse Triggers" before PS5 DS arrived - which I still can't use; I don't have a PS5 yet - and those "Impulse Triggers" rumble are drown out completely by the main rumble motors in XBO controllers in games like FH4. A total disappointment and probably why they're never used.

[SinisterKieran]

If they had it, they would be using it in games like watchdogs. Which is on both platforms..yet only PlayStation is using it.

[Father__Merrin]

they have never ever had haptic feedback. they have rumble triggers thats all. ps5 dual sense is a thousand times better they triggers individually rumble and are adaptive they are able to add tension etc. whilst the rest of the pad has full haptic combined with built in sound. theres no comparison ps5 controller is next gen and i can bet you microsoft will follow it

[darthv72]

This has been explained... countless times. MS has haptic feedback, Nintendo has haptic feedback, Sony has haptic feedback. All of which have different implementations but they all fit under the same use of the term.

[ApocalypseShadow]

Yes sir. And they'll call it the

"Elite Kinetics Controller" for $180

Resist buttons, resist triggers, resist analog sticks and haptic feedback.

Trademark, copyright and patent pending. You heard it here first by the apocalypse. Lol.

[ILostMyMind]

If you say "the Earth is flat" and put "this is a fact" in the end, will it come true?

[SmokinAces]

Rumble triggers isn't haptic or adaptive, now that's an actual fact.

[DaveZero]

Lol at the people downvoting you, these would be the fanboy playstation hardcore fans, the fact that its truth and it still hits them in the head they'd still down vote over it.

This site man.

[OneLove]

Forza was the main one to use xbox haptic feedback rumbles.

[Abnor_Mal]

Impulse triggers, dont repeat my mistake from the other day when I mislabeled them.

The impulse triggers and haptics/adaptive triggers are very different from one another.

[darthv72]

Dont worry Ab... impulse triggers fall under the umbrella term of haptic feedback. MS called it that back in 2013 but now so many are pushed out of shape over it when I say its okay for MS, nintendo and sony to all use that term. It fits to what they are each doing. Haptic feedback is a finer implementation of user interaction feedback than the typical rumble on/off approach for so many years.

[chiefJohn117]

Adaptive and impulse are different but they're both forms of haptic feedback

[ApocalypseShadow]

Chief, gamers are aware that they are in the same family. Both are probably Immersion Technology.

The difference is that Sony's triggers don't rumble. They resist. And Dual Sense haptics are more advanced. No matter how much Xbox fans want Microsoft's controller to be the exact same as Sony's, it's not. And never will be without a new controller.

It'll be cool that more developers use the triggers on Xbox. But comparisons to Sony's implementation is ridiculous.

Sony being secretive about PS5 and their controller has outsmarted Microsoft again. It's like saying Kinect does the same motion tracking as PSVR. In some ways yes. But the comparison ends as VR does way more than Kinect would have ever done. Dual Sense does way more than rumble triggers.

[OneLove]

Oh that's what I thought it was called in the article but it is called "impulse triggers". Regardless if you replace the words my comment still stays the same🤦🏾‍♂️

[VariantAEC]

@OneLove
You were right to say "haptic".
darthv72 is also right to use the word "haptic".
Since N64 game controllers have offered haptic feedback in the the form of vibration motors. N64 DualShock 1-4 and all Xbox (and most other PC and mobile phone controllers) use ERM motors to generate vibrations. Xbox's Impulse Triggers also use tiny ERM motors in the tiggers to generate vibration.

DualSense generates vibrations using Linear Resonate Actuators or as PlayStation called them Voice Coil Actuators. LRA is much better at generating and switching between different vibration patterns. DualSense's Adaptive Triggers offer force feedback utilizing a EM motor turning a worm gear which is checked against the potentiometer inside the assembly to generate specific levels of resistance when pulling L2 and R2 under specific circumstances determined by game software.

DualSense's haptics are far more accomplished and varied from those provided by Xbox's.

To simplify this as much as possible let others know Xbox's triggers vibrate while DualSense's generate force feedback.
And that Xbox controllers cannot generate and/or rapidly switch between anywhere near as many different vibration patterns that DualSense can reproduce with ease.

[oakshin]

How in the world do you compare rumble triggers to adaptive triggers they are to completely different things wow

[StoneyYoshi]

Not according to N4G they aren't!

[VariantAEC]

Unfortunately not a lot of gamers are informed about the differences between simple vibration (Xbox) and force feedback (DualSense).
Also because gamers are likely less familiar with the differences between ERM motors and Linear Resonate Actuators (LRAs) so they cannot accurately convey the benefits of DualSense's far superior vibration feedback either.

I can't blame anyone I didn't know that Nintendo Switch used LRAs in their controllers like DualSense uses now. I was wrong to say DS4 was as capable of reproducing the same variation of vibration feedback as Nintendo Switch's Joy Cons. 🙇‍♂️

[SinisterKieran]

A lot of ms fans in denial in these comment sections

[IRetrouk]

Again, not even similar.....

[Atticus_finch]

It's understandable that people who don't own a ps5 would get DS and xController confused but it can't be forgiven on someone who works as a journalist.
DS is very different. Anyone who tries Astrobot would immediately be able to tell the difference.

[ApocalypseShadow]

I think the problem for Xbox fans are that they feel they are being left out of the conversation.

But it's not Sony's fault Microsoft were too lazy to make an advanced controller for new systems. And It's sad they claim the controllers are doing the same thing. Or that Microsoft had the tech years ago in triggers. With all the controllers Microsoft has made, not once did they think to add new things unless Sony did it first. It's sad. I'm laughing. But It's sad. A trillion dollars doesn't seem to stretch that far these days.

[darthv72]

Its not xbox fans that have a problem with it though. Its the sony fans that try and correct everyone else by saying MS doesnt have haptic feedback when they do. Nintendo, MS and Sony all have their own implementation of it. They dont all have to be or use the same things for them to be in the same room with each other. It's not like some sort of exclusive club or anything.

Club Haptics... no cheap rumbles allowed.

[VariantAEC]

@darthv72
The DualSense's haptics are far superior to Xbox controller's haptics.
Xbox's Impulse triggers are basically redundant. I too have a PC and recently purchased a One controller to try Impulse Triggers in Forza games. The trigger vibration is so subtle that I often have difficulty knowing when they even engage. I thought for sure I would be able to tell when I'm burning out or breaking too hard but no unfortunately Impulse is a waste.

It is likely that game testers noticed the feature added next to nothing and developers responded by not implementing it to save some time and avoid introducing bugs. In the end the ROI was too small to worry about implementing Impulse. Meanwhile DualSense's force feedback "Adaptive Triggers" offer a noticeable difference independent of vibration feedback.

So developers are spending the time implementing it and sorting out any potential bugs because game testers are feeling a significant benefit to using the feature.

[Darkborn]

The ps4 controller still has features the series X controller doesn't have.

[TravsVoid]

Lightbar and Motion gimmicks?

[ApocalypseShadow]

115+ million consoles sold with the controller. Also used in over 5 million VR headsets. With games using those features like Ghost of Tsushima or Astrobot VR.

Unknown amount of Xbox one systems sold but definitely not 115 million or even close.

Still a gimmick?

[DaveZero]

I'm glad MS didnt use it to the extent Sony have, it's a gimmick that is already wearing off with some fans whether it's to save battery, broke or become annoying.

[giovonni]

Time will tell, I found MS version of it to be annoying. In NBA2k the triggers vibrated as the ball was being dribbled. It was very annoying. However this was three years ago. So, things may change we will see

[DJStotty]

"I found MS version of it to be annoying."

Microsoft "version" was not utilised.

"In NBA2k the triggers vibrated as the ball was being dribbled."

Disable rumble maybe?

[giovonni]

@djstotty that’s exactly what I did. Like I said I found it annoying, but again that was years ago advances can be made only time will tell. Sony is good for adding things early, and end up not supporting it.

[Silly gameAr]

You just sound really bitter, dude.

I know that you guys feel like you can't use the "xbox controller is da best controller!" anymore, but that's no reason to make stuff up and sound so angry.

[VariantAEC]

Being honest I've picked up a Xbox One controller and used it to play MSFS 2020 (K/M were still required on update 3) and experienced hand cramping after only around 3 hours (which is not long in a flight sim with some flights being well over 8 hours long). I also picked up a DualSense controller and while I've only used it on my phone it is pretty comfortable for the small lengths of time that I've used it so far. I haven't paired it with the PC to find out how well it works in MSFS2020. When I get a PS5 I might still use the spare DualSense for my phone (Remote Play) and PC (compatible games and Remote Play).

[StoneyYoshi]

Oh look! Another person who hasn't tried the Dualsense and just downplays it as a gimmick. The only Gimmick here is you.

[VariantAEC]

tl;dr: Xbox Impulse triggers and DualSense Adaptive Triggers are both haptics as are both forms of rumble. Read on for details and have a good one.

First a couple resources:
https://www.precisionmicrod...
https://mitpress.mit.edu/bo...

And if you're that dedicated Ivy league college classes:
https://mae.princeton.edu/a... https://web.stanford.edu/cl...

Human interface devices and haptics that inform users about what the devices are doing have become a science. Ultimately the rumble in DualSense and the older DualShock are BOTH forms of haptic feedback additionally the Xbox One and Series specific controller's triggers provide their own haptic feedback in the form of "Impulse Triggers".
However the haptic feedback provided by the DualSense is not the same as that found in the Xbox One or Series controllers. Xbox One and Series "Impulse Triggers" only vibrate while DualSense triggers actually provide resistance or force feedback - which is another form of haptic feedback - that requires users to pull the triggers harder. Both can be assigned to software specific tasks.

The vibration feedback system inside the DS controller is provided via voice coil actuators or Linear Resonate Actuators (or LRAs) versus the Xbox One & Series Controllers and the older DualShock controllers offset weight solenoid actuators or Eccentric Rotating Mass Motors (ERM motors). The former and latter differ in a few unique ways.

Firstly ERM motors inside videogame controllers use a standard electromagnetic motor and attach a weight to the shaft which spins to generate "rumble" while LRAs generate rumble by shaking a weight in two directions driven by alternating magnetic flux fields much like how sound is produced by oscillating a speaker cone.
Finally LRAs can be updated much faster and can produce many different kinds of vibration patterns some are harder to accomplish using ERM motors others are impossible.
Apparently the Nintendo Switch Joy Cons also use LRAs which Apple introduced to their iPhone product line-up in 2015. Apple as usual didn't invent LRAs as this older Immersion patent suggests: https://patents.google.com/... Apple might own Immersion at this point though.

Anyway that is all.

[DJStotty]

How very dare you state facts on here!! /s

In leymans terms :-

PS5 controller - vibrates and has tension in the triggers. (Haptic and force feedback)
Xbox One/S/X controller - vibrates, and has seperate haptics in the triggers. (haptic feedback (MS named Impulse triggers))

Hope that clears up the confusion/debate.

I remember the good old days of owning a force feedback steering wheel for the xbox 360, would not mind if they eventually implement force feedback into the controller, would add a level of immersion to the games.

[VariantAEC]

...Uh... Both are haptic feedback!

Xbox's is vibration on the gamepad and weaker vibration in the triggers.

DualSense features more complex vibration patterns than DS4 and Xbox controllers and is the only controller to fearure force feedback in its triggers.
Okay?

[DJStotty]

That is what i said in my comment VariantAEC

"PS5 controller - vibrates and has tension in the triggers. (Haptic and force feedback)"

[rlow1]

Did anyone read the article? It acknowledges that the adaptive controllers are superior but that the Xbox triggers will finally get more use......Whats funny is how Sony Fanboys made a heck of alot of excuses for the PS3 controller going a whole generation with nothing at all. Yet that didn't stop them from talking how gaming on the PS3 was better........how the script flips!!

[ApocalypseShadow]

Actually, rumble returned after settling the lawsuit with Immersion.

But it didn't have to go down that way. Microsoft settled the lawsuit with Immersion instead of fighting it that left Sony with nothing to stand on. Then, Microsoft bought into Immersion to profit off of Sony's lawsuit. That's so shady. Then, became bitter when Sony settled with Immersion and Immersion didn't want to pay Microsoft by wording the settlement in a certain way. Dual Sense is a definite FU to Microsoft for doing that.

PS3 fans had no choice but to deal with the loss of rumble until it returned. Now, Xbox fans need to deal with the fact that Sony's controller is more advanced than Microsoft's controller and is more enjoyable. How do we know? Because no one is talking about Microsoft's lazy controller that copied Sony's share button among other controller features.

[TravsVoid]

"115+ million consoles sold with the controller. Also used in over 5 million VR headsets. With games using those features like Ghost of Tsushima or Astrobot VR.

Unknown amount of Xbox one systems sold but definitely not 115 million or even close.

Still a gimmick?"

150 million PS2's sold and we are not using PS2 controllers anymore. Also didn't they remove the lightbar from the PS5 controller. The Wii sold well also, why aren't you using Wii remotes on PS5?

[ApocalypseShadow]

Trav, the PS2 controller evolved into the PS3 and PS4 controller. And now, evolved into the Dual Sense. You really need to rethink what you're talking about. That was weak.

Wii? Lol. You really don't know what you're talking about. Has nothing to do with PlayStation.

Try again dude.

[VariantAEC]

Xbox controllers Impulse triggers are totally redundant and when they're going while the main ERM motors are going too you can hardly tell the Impulse triggers are vibrating anyway - which is what makes it redundant.

Impulse triggers likely won't be used more because they're just pointless.
Adaptive Triggers aren't redundant because they provide a totally different and distinct function that doesn't get drowned out by the vibrations of the main controllers LRAs.