Sony didn’t “simply incorporate” an AMD RDNA 2 GPU into the PS5, it helped build it

Lead system architect Mark Cerny confirmed that it will utilise the yet-unreleased architecture, but that this GPU won’t simply be a “PC part”.

[THC CELL]

People are too stupid for this info and rather look at bigger numbers

[Kumakai]

ms did the same exact thing. they both use customized silicon. the reason they do it is because they can - due to the closed nature of consoles. they can specifically weed out bottlenecks and optimize. just like how iPhones do. this is nothing new and has been done for a few generations.

[jbull]

You not concerned with Microsoft exclusive strategy where they will be releasing on the base Xbox one model which compared to the series X is a small pup.

[fiveby9]

Oh so true. Most people are so clueless when it comes to computer architecture. The presentation by Mark Cerny went over most people's heads but developers and people trained in computer sciences. Is the Xbox a superior balanced architecture? That remains to be seen. If the APU is higher performance but data starved due to other bottlenecks then it might be meaningless. Both consoles will do 4k/60. Anyone buying these consoles for 8K is kidding themselves. By the time 8K is readily available, these consoles will have been replaced by mid gen or subsequent gen hardware. In a year the PS5 will have outsold the XBsX based on existing customer base alone.

[NecrumOddBoy]

Don't be a jerk. It's not worth the fight.

The PS5 will be a massive powerhouse with world renowned games.

Also, everything is heard. PS5 uses a lot of customized tech designed for console games. I think we will be very surprised by what devs will do.

[darthv72]

so are you saying MS pulled another IBM situation here? Meaning they got wind of the custom chip Sony and IBM were working on and got IBM to build them a custom chip as well??? Only this time replace IBM with AMD.

[SierraGuy]

Wtf are you talking about?

[Xb1ps4]

Is this not the same chip ms is using?

[rainslacker]

Pretty much, and all this talk about how either of these companies worked to make some custom solution that is somehow more relevant than the other is just ignorant BS from people who have no clue about how these things work. Sony and MS picked and chose what parts of a APU they wanted. Decided on cores, and clock speed, then anything they built specifically was in the controller and the rest of the bus to connect it all together. There was no super awesome new feature built for either system, that was either not replicated by the other company, or the other company didn't see it as relevant or decided to focus on other things. They customized the chips to their liking.

[King_Noctis]

And what make you so smart than countless other people? Both console are gonna be great Fyi.

I do really hate some fanboys.

[Ricegum]

How ironic that you're one of them. You have a history of Sony bashing on this site.

[King_Noctis]

@ricegum

Not as much as you bashing MS it seems. Stop being such a hypocrite.

[anubusgold]

@CaptainHenry916 ps3 was 600 dollars and didnt have crap for the first year it was out so i dont want to hear your nonsense . At least xbox has its biggest game Halo on launch the first time since the first xbox. What will sony have at launch a new god of war, a new last of us i doubt it? Any thing they have at launch will be a ps4 up res version.

[madpuppy]

Sony has Never disappointed me with it's consoles...Microsoft, on the other hand, never ceases to amaze me by how grand a picture they paint about how great they are and how much better it's products are....until you actually get your hands on the "finished" product. I am definitely getting a PS5...as for the Xbox? I may get the cheapo one so I can play games with my Xbox friends but, that is about the extent of my foray back into Microsoft's gaping maw I'm willing to go......but, probably not.

[Tross]

I know enough to know that I really don't know a whole lot. I understand that higher numbers for things such as Teraflops is correlated with performance, but I don't know how it all works, so while I've been lurking these tech spec discussions, I really don't think I'm qualified to weigh in on them.

All I do know is I'm pre-ordering a PS5 regardless because I'm sure it will be great, and I have never been disappointed with a PlayStation. I mean, the Vita came close but it had its good points too. Every other PlayStation for me has been great, and I can't wait to do it all again with the PS5, regardless of what some numbers I don't fully understand say.

[TheScotsman]

Yeah it's about buying the console to play the games you like and for me it's gonna be ps5 to start and keep my one x as well then maybe series x when I get round to it but no rush

[Intentions]

I mean that's the definition of custom made APU/SoC :/

[fathertime4464]

Obviously you didn't watch the xsx presentation. Theres a ton of custom stuff in that beast

[sampsonon]

stuff

smart

[fathertime4464]

@sampsonon
I'm not going to waste my time typing intelligent things on my phone just so a bunch of draft know it alls can deny the obvious

[i3eyond the Circle]

The whole 36CU count of the Ps5 goes against almost everything AMD themselves speak on RDNA 2.

Hybrid Ray trace cores that act as shaders if not used and Compute units that match their previous iterations isn’t a part of the RDNA 2 vision so yeah... we’ll probably never see the Ps5 chip on PC unless they are releasing a budget card.

Sony probably has the 50% performance optimizations but lack dedicated ray trace cores, patented variable rate shading, and DXR... I’m still calling it RDNA 1.5 because clearly it isn’t the RDNA 2 package available on Xbox.

[UltraNova]

Wait does XSX have dedicated RT cores? I mean separate hardware to the GPU cores? How did I miss that?

[i3eyond the Circle]

https://wccftech.com/micros...

If the PlayStation 5 had this.., I’m sure on a “deep dive” it would be mentioned.

[crazyCoconuts]

I haven't seen any evidence of that. They both claim hardware accelerated ray tracing, internal to the SOC, so I'm guessing it's just a standard AMD implementation.

[i3eyond the Circle]

The evidence is Cernys own wording on the subject and total omission if it even exists

[DerfDerf]

Yes XBOX RT is handled by dedicated hardware separate from the GPU

This is direct from the Ray Tracing section of the Digital Foundry article

"Without hardware acceleration, this work could have been done in the shaders, but would have consumed over 13 TFLOPs alone," says Andrew Goossen. "For the Series X, this work is offloaded onto dedicated hardware and the shader can continue to run in parallel with full performance. In other words, Series X can effectively tap the equivalent of well over 25 TFLOPs of performance while ray tracing."

[fathertime4464]

@ ultranove
You should watch the hole dg episode on the series x break down.
It has separate rt cores, and they straight up said that rt on the xsx has very little impact on the CPU and gpu end

[fathertime4464]

@3beyond the circle
The down vote you got there is from someone that doesn't know how to click on a link a read

[UltraNova]

I see. That's significant to be honest. Now I'm really worried about pricing.

[sampsonon]

And when it comes down to it sony will be pumping out AAA games and MS will have BC. i know where my money is going. this last yr with sony's game line up it shows who to put your money down on

[i3eyond the Circle]

Yeah the just won’t make any games with 16 studios and you’ll play them on your rig that’s more powerful than the XSX.. we know we know.

[itsmebryan]

Ms has 16 games studios now making games. Why do you think MS will not have games?

[sampsonon]

@itsmebryan those are A-AA studios they acquired. they will fit into the cheap games in Games Pass's line up.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

You just made it sound as if RDNA2 is defined by what's inside an Xbox. And you contradicted yourself saying we won't see a "PS5 chip" in a PC *unless* it's a budget card. So which one is it? Is it RDNA2 or not? Do you know the difference between a RTX 2060 and a RTX 2080?

[i3eyond the Circle]

RDNA 2 is defined by AMD... and there’s more of their definition in the Xbox then there is in the Ps5. So yeah... what point are you getting at? Arguing semantics of my wording and sarcasm... I guess that’s all that is left so go ahead,

Maybe I’ll rephrase “unless it’s a budget card they’ve never talked about or will waste their time creating”

[KwietStorm_BLM]

"Maybe I’ll rephrase “unless it’s a budget card they’ve never talked about or will waste their time creating” "

AMD hasn't detailed their cards for 2020 at all yet. All we know is they are coming later. So of course they haven't talked about the lower end model, which is a thing. But to say they would waste their time creating it, is ignorant for the sake of being ignorant.

[ABizzel1]

"While Cerny doesn't mention technologies such as machine learning support or variable rate shading, PS5 does indeed deliver hardware-accelerated ray tracing via its Intersection Engine, which Cerny says is "based on the same strategy as AMD's upcoming PC GPUs". There had been speculation of an external block, but that's not the case - like next-gen Navi and Xbox Series X, the RT hardware is built into the shaders and so fully integrated. Similar to the RDNA implementation, PS5 will have access to the same kind of RT implementations we've seen in the PC space - reflections, ambient occlusion, shadows and global illumination are a good fit."

[rainslacker]

You can call it whatever you want, but it's based on RDNA 2.0 architecture. You aren't the one that gets to decide how these things are classified. Believe it or not, these standards are pretty well defined by people much smarter than you, and who actually create this stuff, and agreed on by industry standards and everyone in the industry.

Sony's APU has things that you will never see on PC...because it's rare you will ever see an APU on a PC. These aren't PC's, so just because you don't consider it worthy in relation to PC, doesn't mean that it matters that you don't consider it RDNA 2.0. RDNA 2.0 is an architecture principal, as well as a set of hardware protocols. This chip meets the requirements for both.

[seanpitt23]

Sony helped AMD build the ray tracing on the GPU they are not going to give themselves a gimped Version and let Microsoft have a better one

[Christopher]

***Sony probably has the 50% performance optimizations but lack dedicated ray trace cores, patented variable rate shading, and DXR... I’m still calling it RDNA 1.5 because clearly it isn’t the RDNA 2 package available on Xbox.***

That's a cart load of assumptions.

[Elda]

Guessing Sony knew exactly what horse power it needed for next gen by doing their homework with their developers including third party developers. Possibly doing what they needed to do to keep the console at an affordable price. I might be wrong but after hearing about it's specs I'm thinking another $400 price tag while the competition may be $500.

[Fishy Fingers]

Literally no one:

Sony: "You can have too much power"

No. They got as much power out of the hardware that they were willing to pay for. It's that simple.

[kayoss]

But Sony first party have proven they can push their hardware beyond it limitation.

[sampsonon]

yeah, same here

[DerfDerf]

The question mark would be that SSD, Retail on that SSD based on today's pricing would be ridiculously expensive. As of right now an off the shelf SSD at that speed doesn't even exist,

[Sitdown]

Exactly, most people seem to be overlooking this.

[rainslacker]

My guess is Sony is spending more early on for SSD with the expectation that over time, the price will decrease. This could mean losing some money early on, but making more off the hardware as time goes on. Plus, if they're buying enough of these chips, they will get better pricing, and it's quite possible that a ramp up in production for the consoles will mean overall pricing of these chips will go down faster than they would for the PC market alone. The PC market can take longer to adopt new technology, as it takes time for form factors to make it into the norm of the motherboard or case market.

[Rimeskeem]

I feel that Sony went the direction of "Put the necessary power to give devs this much ability while making the price point nice"

MS went for raw power at a more expensive price.

Games are gonna be the selling point.

[Starman69]

All for 10 extra fps 😂. It's not a big difference.

[itsmebryan]

What if MS gets aggressive wit pricing and comes out at the same price? Also are you saying the Xbox is so much more powerful than PS5 that it has to cost more?

[Sitdown]

The article title is the worst.

[RGB]

Yet we have Xbox guys on twitter saying PS5 was going to be GCN/RDNA1 hybrid... Oof

[Wotbot]

Shit they should have done a better job 🤪

[0rbital71]

ps5 will have had the best system architect building it and bottlenecks wont be an issue, the beast will be streamlined to fk, numbers and TF dont mean a thing for ms to throw around

[Kaiou]

I actually found it really amusing he even mentioned it , i was like wait.... is it?

[Imortus_san]

Is that why it's so weak? and it had to be overclocked.

[ECHOINFINITY]

People are seriously sleeping on sonys design decisions for the PS5. I think it's going to be a game changer for 1st party developers especially. Those extra Terra flops are going to slam into the diminishing returns wall, the ssd speeds will not. Just wait for the 1st wave of 1st party exclusives to highlight the difference for everyone lol