343 founder comments on 20GB day one download for Halo: The Master Chief Collection

NerdBite: It has been announced that to access all the features of Halo: The Master Chief Collection on Xbox One, a day one 20GB patch must be downloaded. Many are not thrilled with this news as 20GB can be a large amount of data to download especially for those currently living with limited bandwidth speed or even a download limit.

[Death]

That is a really, really, really big patch.

[pompombrum]

Does a far better job to encourage people to go digital though than almost anything Microsoft had done last year with their initial vision. Who wants to go to the shops to buy a game just to be greeted with a 20gb patch? It's alright for those of you with high speed internet but those of us who are stuck with lower speeds that's a ridiculously high day one patch.

[4Sh0w]

my bad, meant to reply below

[badz149]

in this case, those going for the physical copy are at the advantage because they only have to wait for install and download the 20GB patch. those going digital are going to download a lot more.

seriously, 20GB is a joke for a patch! it's like they are shipping a blank disc and you have to download the whole game altogether! this patch even made DR3's 13GB patch the run for it's bandwidth!

[4Sh0w]

Yes this patch is crazy huge, I just don't think there was any nefarious reason behind it other than what they said.

[4Sh0w]

“The game is designed to run as a single, unified product, … Digital is seamless obviously, but we also wanted disc users to have the same experience, without swapping discs. Since the bulk of it is MP or MP related, the logic is sound.”

-I think 343 knows what their doing, this is 65GB of content, do you really want to be trying to handle all that by bouncing around between 2 discs over 4 games and over 100 maps. I get that for some with data caps and slow internet speed initially its a pain but in the long run I think a seamless sp/multi online experience with the integrated UI for all 4 games is a highly efficient game design that will benefit everyone so I think they made the right decision.

Edit @Askanison4
I'm not sure about ps4 but X1 games require installing so you're still using that HDD space either way.

Edit @ThatOneGuyThere
Nah, these guys have been straight with us about this collection from day one, very active with the community, they could have easily sold this MCC at a higher premium profit like a collectors edition 79.99 or more considering all the content but they didn't, and none of what you says garuantees them more profits because the 20GB patch could just as easily discourage a small number of sales due to some who because of data caps and slow internet speed not liking the idea of the patch.

10,000 Bluray disks are about $2.90 for full mastering and packaging. Considering Microsoft would be ordering in the millions, the cost isn't going to be anywhere near that. That's also not taking into account any discounts the manufacturer may be giving them because of ongoing sales relationship.
http://www.pacificdisc.com/...

[ThatOneGuyThere]

they needed to include both disks when purchased physically, then require them to be installed. Their "reasoning" is PR bullshit meant to mask the fact that they're doing it to net a larger profit by:

1. digital sales nets them more money than physical sales. forcing a 20gb patch makes everyone want to go the digital route.
2. less used copies in the wild will lead to greater lifetime sales.
3. if they included both disks they would have to pay to manufacture both disks.

This is a greedy tactic and to pretend its anything else is simply delusional.

[4Sh0w]

I meant to finish my above comment after this link: http://www.pacificdisc.com/... by saying that the cost to manufacture bluray discs IN BULK are very, very cheap now so from a logic standpoint it doesn't make a whole lot of sense from microsofts position to first spend 10's of millions of dollars on this remaster, sell it to us at a VERY CONSUMER friendly/fan service price point but then not do a 2nd disc for the sole purpose of saving what likely amounts to a few thousand bucks for each 100k sold. Therefore, again logically it makes sense that a experienced dev vs conspiracy theory forum posters just decided this was the best way to handle seamlessly putting all 4 Halo sp games, over 100 maps, Halo2 instant transitioning, UI map integration, upgrades, etc together.

[pompombrum]

^^^ Sorry but what would the difference be between two discs and downloading which an "experienced developer" would possibly notice that we wouldn't? The only "friendly" explanation would probably be that they are still working on the content included in the day one patch and it simply isn't going to be ready in time to be pressed to disc. Conspiracy theorists aside, his responses were typical PR bs.

[Nolando]

@4show

BUT ITS MICROSOFT! they most likely covered up the moon landing as well!

[OrangePowerz]

Just make one disc a installer disc like we have seen plenty of times on 360 and the second disc the game disc. You only swap once after you installed the data from the disc. You know like the same seamless experience they offered with Halo 4 where you only installed the Disc 2 data once and afterwards never used it again.

[4Sh0w]

@aiBreeze "Sorry but what would the difference be between two discs and downloading"

-Well as 343 said:
"Digital is seamless obviously, but we also wanted disc users to have the same experience, without swapping discs."

-Again we don't know the development hurdles for handling these 4 games, 1 disc would have been perfect but 2 discs likely presents issues, NOT impossible issues but likely undesirable issues that work against things like going from a ONLINE SINGLEPLAYER 4 PLAYER CO-OP GAME SESSION(on 1st disc) to quickly going to the UI and QUICKLY JUMPING INTO A ONLINE MULTIPLAYER GAME SESSION(on 2nd disc)= Again its easy to arm chair critique, there could be many development reasons that would make swapping counter-intuitive to the overall seamless experience 343 said from the very start was their goal, like I said I see no logical reason why 343 would lie(financial costs would be chump change for 2 discs) especially when they have constantly been open with the Halo community every step of the way. So again without any logical motive to lie vs forum posters on n4g, I do in fact believe 343 just did whats best for incorporating not 1 but all 4 games.

Halo fans/X1 owners may not like the patch but they certainly understand 343 has a goal in mind for the best seamless experience in the weeks, months and years after release for EVERYONE rather than the heartburn of YES a large 1 time patch that will be forgotten about 2 mins after you start playing this masterpiece.

These guys at 343 put everything they had into this collection for an insanely consumer friendly price still *some gamers complain, especially those most forgiving of some really blatant broken promises & terrible release of a recently high profile game.

[OrangePowerz]

4show

There are no hurdles to put the patch on a second disc and install the content from there to the console and afterwards run the game from the other disc without any need ever to switch again to the other disc. They wanted to save the money that would be connected with having a second disc that's all.

The talk about seamless experience is PR talk because the experience will be just as seamless when you install the content from the disc. And that way people that have a cap don't have to download 20GB and still get the same experience and probably better because it should be faster to just install the 20GB from disc compared to downloading it.

You are focused on the 343 excuse of having to swap discs. If disc 2 is an install disc there is zero need to swap discs around, just like in Halo 4 that had 2 discs.

[badz149]

@OrangePowerz

"Just make one disc a installer disc like we have seen plenty of times on 360 and the second disc the game disc."

the console doesn't work like that anymore. all games data will need to be installed before the console can run it. neither the Xbone nor the PS4 is designed to run games off the disc.

[4Sh0w]

badz149, agreed there are also likely other difficulties as well that none here understand, I mean we are talking about new hardware for both that isn't even backwards compatible with last gen, also launched with many features from last gen MISSING. lol, you'd think if it was as simple as "cut & paste" from last gen then they would have started with EVERYTHING from last gen and made them BC too.

I'd be inclined to believe there was some bigger motive to 343 decision but again as I've proved with the link, a 2nd disc in this situation would be PEANUTS compared to the money they've already spent. Why do a collection at a bargain basement price but make a decision to save a few grand??? They could have tacked on a few bucks and I don't think anybody here would deny that this collection would still be a helluva deal. Soooooo...it just makes much more sense to me that somewhere in the dev process like with most games anyway that they ran into frustration points/constraints/issues and just said here's the best alternative for out end goal, so they went with that. I make decisions like that all the time at my job, although its not game development, the thinking is the same. So in the absence of a more logical explanation it seems to me that 343 is just doing what they thought was best but some people will always pretend they know better because its easier to be a critic than to do something great.

[donthate]

It is not a patch. It is literally multiplayer content!

If you read the original source on gaf, Frank also discusses how a patch would be in the Megabytes.

I cannot wait for this game! Insane Azure Cloud gaming on Halo?

F' yeah!!!

[URNightmare]

What's "INSANE Azure cloud gaming" even mean? 😖🔫

[jagermaster619]

I honestly think the digital download is the way to go this time I also prefer the disk but you will have everything ready to go by the time this comes out including the 20gb download since I will never get rid of the game it seems to be a no brainer and you still get all the preorder content and the live action show so why not I'm going to download this as soon as I get home later see you all on the battlefield November 11th oh well I guess I'll only see the people with digital downloads since the hard copy you have to wait to download the 20gb all well layers!!!!

[Thomaticus]

That's not a patch it's a game by itself.

[Askanison4]

The seemless product notion seems like a sound reason for the patch. Since it's multiplayer only (mostly) the logic is reasonable enough, too.

I'm just trying to figure out if I should download and give over 60-70gb of my HDD to it or buy the disc and have it only be 20-25gb.

[Zanzibar106]

Pretty sure the full install of all XB1 games is mandatory even off disc, so you'll be using 60-70gb regardless.

[Software_Lover]

All game installs are mandatory this gen.

[ryuuzakibjorn]

So they didn't want to be the first Current Gen console to have a game that needs two discs (To my knowledge), so they make you download what would've been Disc 2?

How shady.

[Perjoss]

I dont think there is any shame in having 2 bluray disks of content. Besides, this is not 1 game, its a compilation of 4 full games, with 106 multiplayer maps.

[TripC50]

And Think of how much money they saved with just having one disc. This was a good move that will end up being a small gripe by the gamers in the end

[Death]

I'm pretty sure the perception of having too much content in the box wasn't the problem.

[ThatOneGuyThere]

greedy. their fake explanation for their reasoning is shady, however. they were too cheap to include 2 blu-rays. period. everything else is PR spin.

[ghostface9]

wow what kind of loony bin did you come out of how is a patch for the game greedy patches day one are so the company can still update the game why its being tested and getting rated

[marlinfan10]

yeah they invested tens of millions into the game but wanted to save on something as cheap as blurays lmao you guys will really look for anything to complain about. this games all about having ONE spot to play everything, not having to switch between 2 disk depending on what you want to play. after the patch download people will literally have months/years worth of gameplay waiting for them, i think we'll live.

id be mad if i couldn't get this awesome deal too.....

[ThatOneGuyThere]

@marlinfan

you clearly didnt read my first post, so ill re-cap:

manufacturing cost. when you're planning on selling millions of something, every little cost adds up. Also, by forcing people to download a portion of the game anyways, and then talking about how much better it is when you buy the whole game digital, you are swaying fans into spending the same amount of money through the digital marketplace, where almost ALL of the money goes directly to the seller instead of being spread around through middle men, and the benefit to that is less people buying used copies.

[donthate]

This is the best value in console gaming history next to maybe the Orange box, and you call MS greedy for not having two discs?

Amazing!!!

You go play other games that doesn't have an issue of fitting all the content on one disc then, let me enjoy this gem.

[Perjoss]

I wonder if i can skip this 20gigs if i just want to play the campaigns, my connection is quite slow

[lemoncake]

If you don't play online you wont need the big patch

[denawayne]

Go offline before you put the disc in to see if it works

[UnHoly_One]

I believe they said the campaign stuff would be playable while the 20 Gbs of content was downloading.

I'm not sure how you would stop it entirely, though, short of disconnecting your internet.

[Godmars290]

And I'm probably the only person concerned at how this screws over off-line XB1 owners.

[OpieWinston]

If you're an offline user you weren't playing the Online MP playlists in the first place.

You aren't getting screwed...Just like always you're looking for something to bitch about.

[Omnisonne]

''You aren't getting screwed...Just like always you're looking for something to bitch about.''

Thats a little rough no?

This time it might be just for multiplayer, but soon enough devs will release huge day 1 patches for singleplayer too. Which if not downloaded, render the game unplayable for people with no stable network connection

[OpieWinston]

Is it a bit rough? Yeah I agree. Just rewatching some funny Breaking Bad moments so calling a few people "Bitch".

But I'm sick of people pretending these Day one updates screw everyone. It's 4 games, obviously there will be stuff you can't fit on the disc and need to throw in a MP patch.

Most people who play Halo, play it for online. A lot play it for the story, but the core community plays it for Online MP.

[denawayne]

@Omnisonne - You really think MS (or Sony) would release a game on a physical disc that is unplayable if you don't download a patch? I'm talking about single player games.

[URNightmare]

In reference to Omnisonne's comment:

http://n4g.com/news/1608219...

"It's one thing to issue a patch designed to add a bit of polish to the end product, but it's something else entirely to ship a virtually broken game to store shelves. That brings us to The Evil Within - version 1.0."

[Death]

I'm fairly certain the offline users won't be upset they don't have to download the 20gig of multiplayer content. If they decide to go online with the game in the future, the update will be available for download.

Halo has always appealed to the core Xbox gamers. These same gamers are also the ones that have traditionally been Live members. The percentage of Halo gamers that aren't Live members is relatively small. If you are only playing the campaign you are missing a huge part of the game.

[dms5223]

I don't get it. People complain that last gen is holding back current gen and that Xbox one is holding back ps4....

Yet people say games need to be made with the dial up players in mind? Really??

[4Sh0w]

lol

[turdburgler1080]

@dms5223 Your comment rings true. People just need to move out of the sticks or their parents basement and get broadband. If you can't move then that's your choice but stop holding the rest of us back. This comment will pucker a few buttholes lol.

[donthate]

Leave it to the ps4 fans to start a conspiracy on this years biggest gaming value....

Yes, MS is screwing fans over because they have too much content to fit it in one disc! Yes, MS are screwing you non-Xbox owners. /s

[Blues Cowboy]

I see the logic (you need an internet connection to play online multiplayer, so therefore you'll also be able to download the patch), but I still kinda hate the idea of not getting the full game, even on two discs. Perhaps I'm just getting old.

[gamer1138]

I don't think it's a problem to not like the idea of getting the whole game, BUT you shouldn't have that worry if all you're concerned with is single player. You will not miss MP because you don't intend to use it.

[denawayne]

I understand completely. It's like how I can't get the latest music on cassette tape. /s

[UnHoly_One]

I'm getting the full game on ZERO discs.

And it will all be downloaded ahead of time and ready to play at 2 AM in my time zone.

No waiting in line, no waiting for install, and no waiting for download.

They can keep their discs. ;)

[gamer1138]

I think a little perspective is in order. If you are a Halo fan but don't want to play MP then I think you can skip the patch as the 1-4's SPs are all on the disc. If you are a Halo fan who does want to play MP then you will have an internet connection and thus the ability to download the patch.

On a separate note. Perhaps MS could have done a second disc that was purely install and you used to install the multiplayer and then run from the main disc. Only problem with that is whether the xbox's OS would allow that to work without a major patch.

[jukins]

Regardless if you have an Internet connection or not having to download 20gb patch is kinda ridiculous. Most mmos patches or even expansions aren't that big. And given that some ppl have caps or get throttled or just plain old slow Internet this is just no good.

[OldDude]

If you game on PC's you already know that several games are over 50gbs. That's life folks, you want these kinds of games you have to pony up to do it. A 20gb patch is nothing.

[crazychris4124]

Does anyone know what my download rate would be if i have a 50 MB download connection? I know on Steam i get about 3 MB/ sec. My pc is on a wireless connection so im really only getting a 25 MB connection but my x1 will be wired. I get the x1 in 2.5 weeks so im dont know much about it.

[Dr_Anrak]

You only buy half the game at retail. The other half is in the cloud.

[SliceOfTruth888]

This is not a patch, this is game content. Its a full Blu-Ray and if they upped the cost of the game to 69.99 to offset the extra production cost to include 2 blurays you would all be complaining about that. Gamers are the worst

[RiPPn]

It costs next to nothing to press a second disk. Expecting people to download 1/3 of the game data is pretty disgusting and this is coming from someone who has a great internet connection. I seriously can't believe you are defending this. Apologists are the worst.

[Death]

The plastic isn't the issue when adding another disc. The second disc is also subject to royalties. You also need a special case to hold that second disc and additional handling to get it in. It's not an insane amount of money, but if it is an extra dollar, that can turn into millions of dollars if the game sells as well as previous Halo games.

Personally, I think they should have added a second disc so the cost wasn't passed to gamers. I don't have a cap on my internet and 343 already said the extra content downloads in the background, so I am not affected. At the same time though, some may be and that sucks. At the end of the day the question is does that inconvenience out weigh millions of dollars?

[marlinfan10]

@rippn

lol you fanboys are too funny. its 4 games in one and you guys are acting like they're screwing over people. i guess when you can't find anything else to complain about, you start complaining about a disk. yeah its not ideal, but whatever. its a still a great deal and once everyone is able to download it they'll have a ridiculous amount of content waiting for them. halos gonna give me more enjoyment than all the games that have released so far this gen and ive got both ps4 and xbox. if i have to download a patch then so be it. ill take that over getting a game where that you buy and can't play the online PEROID. thats okay to you sony fanboys though, cause that wasn't an xbox game.

[Father__Merrin]

what about bandwidth caps

[UnHoly_One]

#dealwithit

Not even really making a joke, there, but that's pretty much it.

I don't know how any gamer or techie person lives with a data cap in today's world.

[RatchetandClank]

"I don't know how any gamer or techie person lives with a data cap in today's world." Some of us dont have a choice. The internet companys are making us bend over and there is nothing we can do about it because of the area we live.

[UnHoly_One]

I realize that you don't have a choice.

I wasn't trying to say you could change.

My point was just that you are kinda screwed and there isn't much you can do about it.

I'm assuming you don't use Netflix streaming at all if you have a cap?

You could easily max your monthly cap in less than a day doing that. That is why I said I don't know how anyone deals with it in today's world.

[Ace Killa 08]

Goodbye midnight launches and gameplay right after. I'll buy the game midnight, install the game, in the morning run the update, and probably work half a day and hope that is enough to start playing.

Playing games on consoles are not what it use to be.

Now if I pre-download I don't think I'm downloading the patch. I'll be downloading the game, then afterwards the patch will be triggered. So still. the same method less waiting.

[UnHoly_One]

I was under the impression the pre-download got everything in advance.

[jay2]

still not bothing any more till thr beta i dont have the spoed for it on 2mbps

[MetroidFREAK21]

Wait, this patch is for only for the people getting the disc version of this game?

[Mikey94]

Just let people download the patch pre release. And they cant say its impossible cause Battlefield 4 did it for their day one ipdate

[FullmetalRoyale]

On my ps4 you have to have the game disc in the disc drive to get it play, regardless of the fact of it being fully installed.

So if that is the same on Xbox(correct me if I am wrong), would that not be a legitimate reason as to why you couldn't use two discs?

It could not possibly be a seamless experience if you had to switch discs.

[OldDude]

Bubbles to you, sir. Well said. At least somebody gets it.

[Imalwaysright]

And again, gamers are screwed by devs. Releasing unfinished and broken games became a norm on this industry. What's mindboggling to me is that gamers aren't outraged by this.

If a game isn't 1080p, all hell breaks loose but if a game is broken like Driveclub was or unfinished like Halo collection, the excuses start pouring in. Really sad.

[NeoGamer232]

Unfinished? WTF?

Did you read the article? Obviously not...

They had a choice... Ship two blu-rays or ship one Blu-ray with the complete single player content and download the multi-player content. People who have bought digitally will not get a day one patch of 20GB... They have the entire game.

They chose download the MP... 1) it saves them on shipping another disc... 2) It makes it so you only require one disc to play the game.

I don't see why that is so bad. This is not a 20 GB patch, it is a free download of content for the game.

[Imalwaysright]

Unfinished may not be the best word to describe this situation. Incomplete might be a better word. Doesn't change my opinion that they're screwing gamers though.

There are many reasons why gamers choose to buy retail and one of them is to avoid massive downloads like this either because of slow download speeds, data caps or to have their HDD last as much as they can without having to fork €50 or more for a new one. Other reason is to have the whole content of the game on disc. That's why I find their piss poor excuse of having a seamless experience insulting but then again, it's not the 1st time that devs speak to us as if we were all 4 years old.

[kingPoS]

What I don't get is why doesn't MS just put it on two discs to begin with. It has to install every game anyway, so why the heck not. Today's next gen games aren't going to become any smaller as time goes on.

Gateway MT6706 2008

[MultiConsoleGamer]

Not getting this until they release an updated version with all the game content on one disc.

And since I suspect that will never happen they just lost a sale.

[LAWSON72]

Don't worry we will have fun without you lol

[MultiConsoleGamer]

You shouldn't settle for an unfinished product. You're just encouraging this half assed behavior.

I would have preferred that they simply delay the game to add the additional content to the disc, or just include a second disc, rather than forcing people to download a 20GB day one update. I have top tier internet so speed isn't a problem for me. However for the folks who have slow download speeds or bandwidth caps this update is going to be a real problem.

It's sad because I honestly feel the Xbox One is a superior product to that other console. I also feel MS has a better future than Sony, who clearly has no future whatsoever. However it's becoming harder and harder to support Microsoft. They just keep making huge mistakes.

[LAWSON72]

@multiCG

You do realize this huge patch is just part of the game being patched in due to disc limitations not some sort of sneaky way of fixing a broken product. There is no delaying the game to get everything on the disc, dual layer BD holds 50GB there is not some magical trick to 'fix' the size of the game. You are ignorant to the matter and trying to point out a problem that literally has nothing to do with this game

[TripC50]

Here's the gameplan... It's a multiplayer patch right? Play the campaigns while it's loading in the background. If you can do that then problem solved.

[urwifeminder]

No problem on release day I will pretend it did not come out let it patch and play some steam lol .

[SilentGuard]

So what is the point in even offering a physical disc based version? If your not getting the whole game on disc and have to download 20gb to play than there is no point to even offering this game on disc. Don't see why they couldn't put the MP component on a second disc and only require one of the discs to in the drive to play, same as numerous games last gen.

[slappy508]

By my calculations this patch is going to take me 3 days to download on my slow internet >.<
Not complaining too much though as I was planning to play through the single player campaign anyway and then enjoy the multiplYer experience.

[TheObserver]

It wouldn't be so bad if people can decides which Halo MP to download piecemeal. IE only download Halo 3 MP.It is pointless to download the whole 20G if you only play a portion of it.