Driveclub's Director Explains "Missing" Shadows; Split-Screen "Not Out of the Question"

Driveclub is only a few days away, but game director Paul Rustchynsky is still hard at work providing information about the future of the game and addressing concerns about various aspects of the game.

[IRetrouk]

Damn, he just shot down one of the fanboys reasons for hating lol

[Abriael]

And in a very classy way. But there'll be more.

[IRetrouk]

Yeah i agree, no bull just proof, i really cant wait for this game.

[uptownsoul]

I'm glad that he is keeping it as authentic as he possibly can. If your going for realism, then go for it all the way…Gorgeous game…CANT WAIT

[ShinMaster]

To be fair, GT is like the only game that doesn't struggle with this. So I'll give them some slack.

[Forn]

Exactly. That's awesome he responded and showed up all the trolls. Fantastic. Only a few more days till I'm finally able to experience Driveclub! Ahh, so stoked!

[uptownsoul]

You know what this kind of scenario reminds me of…Remember when the first HDTVs with the higher refresh rates were being displayed in stores, remember how awkward the movements looked even though they were closer to what real life movement looked like. Its kinda like how the "missing shadows" in this game is. We're so used to seeing video games where there are always shadows under the cars that when we don't see them (as will happen in real life), it seems awkward

[Gaming247allday]

A SHADOW WAS MISSING?? OMG

this game is flawed then, i give it 1/10

pros:

- decent driving game
- nice visuals

cons:

- MISSING SHADOWS
- SHADOW GLITCHES ruin immersion

Review: 1/10

hope you enjoyed my review, tune in next week where we look for more missing shadows!

[JP1369]

"But there'll be more."

It actually only took a few pages after Rushy's comment for someone to say that the shadow should have been incorporated anyway, while insinuating that failure to do so meant the team at Evo doesn't quite know their stuff when it comes to art. Despite the exposure of weaknesses in his argument, he dug in and condescended to everyone in the thread before eventually leaving, but only after effectively saying that he was simply taking the high road. Good times!

[Forn]

@JP1369

You're being absurd. If you watch the video you can literally see the shadow move exactly how it would based on where the light from the sun is smh. You trolls are getting more and more ridiculous every single day.

[JP1369]

Forn -

You need to work on your reading comprehension. I was talking about someone in the NeoGAF thread sourced in the article. He (not me) was making nonsensical statements after Rushy posted his picture that demonstrated the accuracy of DRIVECLUB'S lighting system. If you're going to call someone a troll and say they're being absurd, you might want to make sure you're able to follow along with the conversation. Have a nice day, smart guy.

[Forn]

@JP

Sorry, I completely read it wrong. I apologize. That's dumb that the guy did that on the forum, makes no sense. Oh well, Evolution knows what's up. Can't wait to play. Sorry again.

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Simulview true sky ( a tool that creates realistic clouds and skybox ), only used now in Driveculb where clouds creates shadows on the racefield and hide the sun and when they move and expose the sun again it dazzles you in the racefiled and you can't drive for certain time. This kind of things participate in the gameplay.Truesky is compatible with UE4 engine if some people want to use it.

[gootimes]

People try way too hard to troll this game.

He really has to explain to people why there is no visible shadow?? You can even see the sun reflection on the license plate. Oo

[donthate]

Actually, he took the picture at a much higher angle. The angle would obscure any shadows beneath the car.

You can see this in the game play picture is further away and lower, while on the real picture, you can see the camera is much higher and closer.

This also depends on where the sun is and if there is reflective light anywhere else.

There is no magic to this.

[Petro]

"Simulview true sky ( a tool that creates realistic clouds and skybox ), only used now in Driveculb where clouds creates shadows on the racefield and hide the sun and when they move and expose the sun again it dazzles you in the racefiled and you can't drive for certain time. This kind of things participate in the gameplay.Truesky is compatible with UE4 engine if some people want to use it."

trueSKY is also used by Arma 3, and the sky looks absolutely beautiful in it.

[nveenio]

If split screen is not out of the question, it's because Sony's VR may be made compatible, meaning they'll have to render things twice anyway.

[Khronikos]

LOL at all the idiots that can't read the post and disagree with the guy just telling the GAF story. You people really need to learn how to read. Dear god.... millenials.

[DragonBits]

Um, the angle of the photo he took is completely different than the game photo, which the game car you can see under the car. Also, the mountain on the left is casting a HUGE shadow to the right. So, shouldn't everything cast a shadow in the same direction? That's not fanboy ism, that's pointing out the obvious. He's suggesting that the sun is directly above, in which case, there should be no mountain shadow.

[DragonBits]

As a new member, I couldn't edit my post above, which is flawed, and I wish I could have edited it... The sun is behind, not above (obviously).

Still though, he took the photo of his real car at a different angle, which does make a difference. His point was taken though.

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

If the mountain is casting a huge shadow to the right (over the car itself) it stands to reason the car isn't even being touched by sunlight in the first place.

For the record I didn't look at the image, in basing this off of what you said.

After looking at the image I think its more of a matter of cars having dynamic shadows vs the environment having preset ones.

[lsujester]

It's not a mountain shadow, it's a large tree branch overhanging. If you watch the video, the car is going under one at that moment. It's at 1:31 in the video. If you rewind a second or two, you'll see the shadow of a power pole, which will show you the direction of the sun very clearly, which is almost directly behind the car in the still.

[Angeljuice]

Maybe it's a different angle in the photo because;

A) He can't control the position of the actual sun and had to make do (they're UK based, it's lucky there's Sun at all).

B) He doesn't have a PS4 plugged in to a screen in the car park that could have been used as a point of reference.

C) He is demonstrating the effect, not lining up the images for a perfect match.

I suspect it's all 3 of these reasons.

[lifeisgamesok]

A car in a racing game shouldn't look like it's photoshopped into the scene

No whether if the shadows are accurate or not

The car looks like it is floating... That is the problem

[xHeavYx]

The screen was taken from a stream video, nice try though

[Ka7be]

Hey Troll! Read again!

here:
"Rustchynsky explained that the issue isn’t because the shadows are inaccurate, but indeed because they’re more accurate than usual, while pre-baked fake shadows usually hide that effect in games, it does happen in reality."

Example Reallife:
http://cdn4.dualshockers.co...

Cars in reallife are floating!!!! 1/10 for reallife graphics!

[travisbitter]

Bad trolling attempt, sorry. Go back to drive a supercar in the middle of a corn-field. You cannot tell racing game fans anything about "accuracy" or any kind of racing game lol...

[JP1369]

You heard it hear folks, DRIVECLUB is too realistic. Devs should set aside their tedious attempts at recreating reality because trolls like lifeisgamesok don't feel like being condescended to by the laws of nature. What do you think of that, lifeisgamesok? I'd really like to hear your response. Please?

[XanderZane]

I agree with you. That doesn't look like an in game stream. The picture with the white car in the middle is outside Rustchynsky office. He even says, " To show this I took a car out into the Evo car park, parked it so the sun was from directly behind and held a camera up in the air at similar angle to the chase camera." That shadow in the back of the white car is Rustchynsky holding the camera in the air. It still looks like the white car was photoshopped onto the picture. You can see the shadow from the small red tail-light though. So the sun is definitely behind him and slightly to his right.

[MagUk]

The difference is my friend we can see the wheels on the mini but on the photo of the evo we can't thats why it looks to be floating lol.

[n1kki6]

Can people play the game first and then decide if they like it or not. Why people care so much about what platform a person chooses to play games on blows my mind. We all have money that we can exchange for goods. Food, housing, clothes, games, gaming systems. Some of use buy one system 2 systems... 3... 4... handhelds... etc...

Just stupid, I chose to buy all systems, but I don't care if someone else didn't.

[AndrewLB]

Funny how in that article they show a car with no shadow, attempting to justify it by showing a photo of a real car exhibiting the same lack of shadow... but the problem is in the driveclub screenshot there just happens to be a barrier on the right side of the road that is casting a shadow slightly to the left. That being the case, the car should also cast a shadow in the same direction but be slightly longer since the car is taller than the guard rail.

And what's up with the shadow being cast clear across the road from a tree that's far enough left that it's off-screen?? Last I checked, our solar system isn't the binary variety.

And then there's this... taken straight out of an uncompressed video capture posted up at gamersyde.

http://static1.gamespot.com...

if that doesn't work.. try this: http://oi60.tinypic.com/2ef...

Or even better: http://i.imgur.com/5JpeAPL....

[Ka7be]

"Or even better"
That not downgrade, you troll. That different lighting direction!

Troll harder!

Actualy the image you posted look really good and sharp! Oh and btw 3D poly audience not cardboards...

Troll xfans troll as hard as you can, So people can see who are the must butth**t fanboys on the internet.
desperate times are desperate.

[BG11579]

I don't get it? What should we see in this picture that is wrong?

http://static1.gamespot.com...

[Sir_Simba]

This actually makes me happy because it shows that people have nothing Bad to say about the game so they feel they have to make up something

When you are arguing about shadows you know you are running out of ideas.

[n1kki6]

That makes you happy? Your happiness is based on what people say or do not say about a game?

[Sir_Simba]

n1kki6

I have not been this excited for a racer for a looooooooong time, so yes, do you have a problem with that? goods things being talked about any game makes me happy because i genuinely care.

almost any game

[Bubiii]

That car sure looks like it's floating.

[Neonridr]

While it's cool he posted a comparison shot, clearly the angle is not the same, so it doesn't really explain the lack of shadows in the game image. In order to recreate that effect the angle of the picture is a much more top down angled look. In the screenshot of the game we are simply behind and slightly above.

Still give him points for pointing out the situation using a real life example.

[IRetrouk]

Really? Its slightly higher yes but as far as proving his point he nailed it, it looks the same, no shadow under the car because the light is behind the car, proof is proof.

[ShinMaster]

The angle of the lighting is the same. But it is high enough that the tires are not visible in the real pic. The car in the game looks like it's floating because the tires ARE visible and don't seem to be making contact.

[IRetrouk]

Sour much?

[Abriael]

Uh? No. The angle is definitely similar enough to explain it, and it does. Of course he can't travel to the exact location of the world to reproduce the exactly same position of the sun, but you just need a lower sun (which is perfectly natural) to have exactly the same effect.

[Abriael]

@shloobmm3:"Why do all the other cars have shadows?"

Because you see them from a much lower angle, since they're in the distance.

"He is simply shooting it an angle in which he could be hiding the shadows."

Which is exactly why you don't see the shadow in the game. It's there. It's just hidden by the car.

I really shouldn't need to explain this...

[Rhythmattic]

Abriael

Exactly ... Why is it so hard for people to understand?

Guess people think the sun's arc is exactly the same everywhere on the planet, even through all seasons......

smh.

[Spotie]

Just stop. It's close enough that you get the point.

[uptownsoul]

Thank you!!!

[BlindMango]

How does nobody understand simple light and shadows? Did you want him to wait until the later afternoon when the sun was low like in the trailer for him to take the picture at a lower angle where light reaches even further under the car which allows a lower angle photo to also be accurate?

The simple point that he's trying to prove is that when the sun is directly hitting the back of the car, there is no shadow under the car (or more accurately, the shadow drags forward starting in the center of the car and extending past the front bumper). This is why developers always have to work so hard to make their trailers under so freaking perfect conditions so that people who do not understand simple light and shadows don't cause an uproar over realistic lighting.

[Neonridr]

I never said I didn't understand lighting and shadows. Obviously the picture he took in real life was at a different time of day thus requiring a different angle.

The sun would have to be behind the car and extremely low to give that effect of not being able to see any shadows (in the game image). Problem with that is if you look at the railing to the right of the car, the shadows are not stretched away along the same lines that the cars shadows would have to be in order for the effect to be realistic.

Who knows, maybe someone took the image from a race and that was a complete fluke glitch.. I am sure we won't be seeing floating cars or wonky shadows, it was just a matter of opinion on this one exact screenshot.

[Majin-vegeta]

Split screen would be great....the days of slapping controllers out of siblings just so they wouldnt beat you :P

[GameDev1]

Exactly Split screen like Motorstorm would be great

Though its been a really long time since I have used split screen in a racing game

[travisbitter]

Hahaha! Can't wait to play this game. Will push my in-game BMW 235i really, really hard. :D

[curtis92]

Gah I just KNEW there'd be people that lack the common sense to be able to understand BASIC LIGHTING and would complain that there didn't appear to be a shadow. I'm sure they also stand outside on overcast days, yelling at God for taking away their shadow.

[Mega24]

Well, dynamic lighting tends to do that, most console players are not used to this kind of features. Kind of like Forza and Gran Turismo always had a shadow under the car even though the sun was shining in that same direction.

[Red]

Nice response. Ironically though, the picture he posted had cars that were bright, vibrant and Forza-like, making people who claim Forza looks unrealistic or cartoonish sound stupid. 2 birds with one picture I guess.

[ThatOneGuyThere]

that was an insanely crappy picture, nothing what looking through eyes is supposed to look like. the only time i ever saw cars that saturated and washed out, was LSD in college or coming out of the eye doctor's after getting my pupils dilated.

[Bytor]

Bright and vibrant not Crayola like..

[BattleTorn]

I was actually going to comment on the lack of shadow under the car.... but then I waited, watched a few more minutes.

Then I realized the sun was directly behind, and shadows appeared while turning corners.

It's really obvious, actually
http://n4g.com/news/1597001...

[Abriael]

Looks like for some it ain't obvious enough, considering comments like this:

"look at 1:30 - 1:33 for most pronounced effect. But in reality in the entire video the car looks like its floating and the shadow has issues/looks absolutely fake.

I can assure you, real life doesnt look like that even at such lighting conditions."

He can assure us. Lol :D

[Petro]

Seriously there are people here who are just clueless of how light and shadows work in real life and some of them are in so much denial that even when given evidence they wont believe it. Should we draw a fucking diagram?

[HappyWithOneBubble]

One guy on youtube was saying the same thing about no shadow under the car. I told him it's the way the sun is set. If the sun was in front you will see a back shadow, in back you see front shadow, or on the side you see side shadow. LOL but he say I'm wrong. If you ever drove a car you would now. The shadows are perfect but people always want to find something to complain about.

[CoTton_MoUtH]

Split screen should have implemented in the game originally regardless if the graphics were downgraded If someone's interested in buying a PS4 and wants to pickup DC with no Internet connection how would they get the update so I wouldn't hold my breath for it.

[marlinfan10]

am i the only one that thinks the car almost looks like its floating in the screenshot?

i know ill get a ton of disagrees and called a troll for even hinting towards something looking a little off so ill go ahead and say yes, the game is beautiful and ill be getting it day one. don't get all worked up over my first sentence

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

I think you missed the entire point of the article. Its like some people here just don't know how to read....

[marlinfan10]

Im just talking about the picture in the article, not about the shadows.

Relax

[MattE]

Wow.. Getting a sense of panic from these devs

Game isn't finished man. Delay it lads

[TKCMuzzer]

A bit like your comment, if you could delay any future comments so you can add some of the things that are missing that would be great......like, something worth contributing.

This fanboy crap is really beginning to bore......

[MRMagoo123]

ouch lol that was a nice retort

[Majin-vegeta]

Or more like a Dev coming out and shutting all the damn trolls up.

[TKCMuzzer]

The fact that people even question nature and it's effects prove just what an uphill battle artists face, especially when reproducing real life. These things happen, unfortunately even some people can't even believe reality, maybe that's a negative side effect of creating fake video game worlds, people struggle with what's real and what's not.

[Bdub2000]

Very valid point, and the shadow is probably incredibly accurate. But, the accuracy they provided sure does look like a floating car to me. So it's a good explanation, but it doesn't fix the perceived problem. That's all I'm saying.

[TKCMuzzer]

Thats it though, it's a perceived problem,a problem created because people never observe the world around them, in reality there is nothing wrong,so nothing needs fixing.
It's a perceived problem because people can't except it, why? because they are so used to devs putting a generalized shadow under the car that they except that as the norm. In motion your eyes and brain should except this as the norm because it encounters these things everyday, it's only when you freeze something from a certain angel that the truth can be distorted to make you question what your eyes see, you will always question it because you have been misinformed on reality in the past (previous video games).

[rainslacker]

A lot of things in games, and even movies, are exaggerated or changed when they make it to the screen because reality just doesn't look real to most people. Even animation has done this for the longest time. Watch an animation that has realistic movement...it just doesn't look real, hence the term, animation is exaggeration.

Most effects we see in games are done to make it look real, not to be completely realistic.

[SojournUK]

Who plays a driving game in third person anyway? Therefore the point is a little moot.

[BG11579]

Oh snap! I love the answer, genius and truthful.
The reason why there is no shadow in some situations is because the light effects are realistic. People aren't use to dynamic and realistic light in games.

[Father__Merrin]

some racing games have a constant shadow ie "light bulb hovering above the car" type of shadow.

I guess driveclub being on ps4 with more power is able to pull off realistic shadows, other racing games have black blocked out shadow like a jellyfish clinging on lol

I feel their anguish I really do...

[mysteryraz11]

Who really cares

[XanderZane]

The white car that he put in the Evo Car Park looks like it was photoshop onto the screen. It just doesn't look right at all. Also in that photo the Sun is coming from the right hand side. You can see the shadows from the other cars on the right. The cars on the left have shadows under the car. Shouldn't there be a shadow on the left side of the white car? lol!! This is some serious damage control right here. It's probably safe to say that the shadow are completely accurate in the game. This guy is just trying to damage control. The truth will come out once gamers are playing the game anyways.

[Redempteur]

"Shouldn't there be a shadow on the left side of the white car?"
No because you see other cars from another angle.
What matters is the position of the camera toward the car regarding the position of the sun. This is basic geometry.

[TKCMuzzer]

The sun is not coming from the right hand side at all, it is slightly to the right and quite high up behind him. The reason the cars on the left cast a shadow the way they do is because of the height of the sun. Look at the shadow the tree casts in the background, it is the same angle as the human shadow.
You can quite clearly see the reflection of the sun in the other cars body work, it's at the same height on each car and facing the same direction.
Due to the intensity of the sun, shadows do not always cast as your brain perceives, it's just because we assume thats how they cast, have we all ever really stood outside and studied them during different lighting conditions.
Sometimes what people perceive as reality and what actual reality is are two different things.
It would have been far easier for them to give the car in game a generic shadow than to try and photoshop an image to prove a point they could of avoided.

[XanderZane]

Then why are there shadows in front of the parked cars on the right had side? The sun is actually behind and slightly to the right of the cameraman. That's why you see those shadows on the parked cars. That's why the shadows are under the cars parked to the left. There should be a small shadow in from of the white car and slightly to the left. I'm surprised there is none at all. I believe in what I see and what I don't see. Like I said though, there is a shadow behind the car on the small red tail light in the lower right of the car. That's really the only thing that makes me think this isn't a photoshoped picture.

[IWentBrokeForGaming]

Missing shadows and still visually ahead of the competition!

[MRMagoo123]

Its not missing shadows tho its just simulating real life lighting conditions from the sun.

[XanderZane]

You haven't seen this article yet, have you?

http://www.craveonline.com/...

[DigitalRaptor]

No Xander.

I think we've all seen the way you're trying to use that article to paint a certain picture about the game's content and value when all that article actually does is reinforce why most genuine driving enthusiasts and gamers are excited about the game.

[Yetter]

I'd say from the videos I've seen, missing textures are more of an issue then missing shadows

[uth11]

obviously he's lying! It's clear as day Sony removed the shadows from the game so thay they can sell them to you later as paid DLC! Free PS+ version my butt. You don't see missing shadows in Forza Horizon do you?!?

/troll mode off

[TKCMuzzer]

I can safely say from the beta I was in people need to stop looking for faults for no apparent reason and wait until they get the game before judging. Oh if people are not getting my point, the beta was bloody impressive and very addictive, best surprise of the year for me.
Driveclub seems to have come in for some unfair criticism because it was delayed to make it better, yet many don't want to praise the devs for that decision.
Gamers have become greedy, it's all about content, content. I wouldn't mind but many gamers would not even experience all of the content they moan about not having.
This is the first game where I was generally more interested in the intensity of trying to beat my time than I was in how many vehicles it had, it didn't matter, all the times I were up against were others using the same car, it was about full concentration, it made me want to keep trying, it wasn't about cambers and crap like that, it was about me trying to get the same car from A to B quicker than other people.
The beta did one very important thing, it made me keep going back and that was just a few tracks.......personally I can't wait, and if people want to let ignorance get the better of them, then they will ultimately lose out.

[PsycheEyeMike]

I got the game two days ago. And I was super excited! But I honestly am disappointed :-( I was expecting the graphics to be way ahead of Horizon 2. I have played it for an hour now, and also tried the "time trial"-ish mode, where you can choose time of day, just so I could see if it wowed me when driving at night. And yeah, it does look nice at night, nice lighting, but it seriously doesn't look that much better than Horizon 2.. And in Horizon 2 you have this seriously amazing open world. Words can't describe how amazing it feels to just go off road wherever you want.

And please don't bomb me to the stone age now.. I own both consoles and love'em both! And i seriously mean it, if you have played and enjoyed horizon 2 before you get Driveclub, you will immediately in the first race see that it doesn't look that much better at all. It also uses a cam, that is probably supposed to be "realistic", that starts to shake a little when you drive at different speeds. Only thing is that it more looks like the cam is glitching.. It doesn't feel good at all :-( I hope I can turn it off somehow.

I will give the game a chance though. But Horizon 2 is initially seriously the better game. It's also a damn shame the weather isn't in DC yet.. It'll probably look really good in that department. I will be very surprised if DC gets good scores. I have two friends who played with me, and they both agree.

I know I'll get stamped as a troll.. Especially on this site, saying what I'm saying about Driveclub out of all games.. But I'm just sharing my initial reaction about the game. I will though, as mentioned, give it a chance.

Edit: The General feel in the game is nice though, responsive controls. Feels kinda like Horizon 2. but like I said. That damn jittery cam is no favorite in my house ;-)

[kingPoS]

It's so real, it looks unreal!

Or...

Driving with the sun at your back makes for scarce shadows in real life.

Gateway MT6706 2008

[Flames76]

No shadows are you kidding?This is 2014 not 1994 yea no doubt this game got tossed around.Im guessing the score will be around a 5 out of 10.No split screen,no shadows,and only 50 cars.Hard to believe they want to sell this at $60 seems more of a demo

[MRMagoo123]

derp maybe read the article , the game is not missing shadows, the shadows where not visible due to the position of the sun and the car.

[DigitalRaptor]

Derp, indeed. They don't care for facts though Mr Magoo.

[Adolph Fitler]

Let em troll... I'll be buying it come the 8th...And playing it & Shadows of Mordor on the 11th, for my birthday. Nice little twofur birthday present...Can't wait to enjoy Driveclub.... Then on the 16th, The Evil Within will possibly be added to my collection, provided it is as awesome as I'm hoping... My PS4 collection is gonna get crazy from here on out, Far Cry 4 in Nov...amongst a plethora of others.. My wallet hurts thinking about it.

[gamer7804]

I appreciate the director trying to address it, but he's right and wrong at the same time.

He's right that in his real-world pic you do not see a shadow, but the problem is the angle is just slightly too high in his photographed pic.

While you would not see a large casted shadow to the front right or sides. You should still see a partial diffusion of the casted shadow below the car, judging by the position of the sun creating specular highlights currently on the car.

It also appears to not have much of a form shadow below the inside of the car on the back wheels.

These two things is what is making the car appear to float.

(that said the game still looks like a fun one to play with friends, so i'll be picking up the free version then possibly the full)

[2cents]

Well, I've made my decision not to buy driveclub just yet. Its clearly not finished and I'm not supporting devs by making them think its ok to ship an unfinished game.

People need to really think about what message they are sending by showing so much love for an unfinished product.

I'd rather have the intended experience with all the features working and wait a while for the luxury. There are plenty of games to play till then. I just hope they get everything sorted soon.

Its already such a beautiful game, so a wait of a little longer should just about be manageable.

[holdmyown83]

FAIL!!

[Juangie3]

LOL LOVE THIS DEV!!!

[NeoGamer232]

This is BS. If you delay a game a year you should be able to get it right. All this says to me is that DriveClub was a half baked idea last year and Sony had no intention of shipping this game last year.

You would think they could put decent shadowing in after a full year delay...

[Give_me_head_strong]

Infamous: SS was missing shadows, I didn't mind.

[jbronie123]

They saw Forza 5 and said we need an extra year.. Then FH2 dropped they'll probably push it back another 2 yrs. to catch up with the content lol

[Remy_Chaos]

Just joined and already pushing the needle against your bubbles, good job. I wonder which one bubble troll you are that decided to create a new account.