Silicon Knights: PS3 & 360 "equal in power"

Talking with the San Jose Mercury News, Denis Dyack argues "The 360 and the PS3 are equal in power in my eyes." He comments that the "PS3 has more processing power. The 360 has more available memory. It's pretty much a net, net."

Silicon Knights, the Canadian developer behind Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem and Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes (both for GameCube), is currently working on Too Human for the Xbox 360--a game that was first unveiled as an original PlayStation game in the late 90s.

On the topic of 1080p resolutions vs. 720p, Dyack said that 1080p and HDMI (which is standard on the PS3) cable interfaces have the edge, but both look quite good. "It is questionable if there is a difference between 1080p and 720p. All of our games are likely to be 720p because of the faster refresh rates. There are all kinds of trade-offs. It takes a lot more RAM to do 1080p. You'll reserve RAM for the textures. 720p is just less pixels. There is definitely a huge difference from 720p and analog."

[zypher]

hmmm. not enough juicy "PS3 better than 360 better than PS3" garbage in their to fester a flame war between the fanboys. i predict this article will get little attention.

[Ravenator529]

You are correct!

The fanboys will probably read the article but never post a reply due to the fact that it really seems as if this is a very "unbiased" opinion of the two "high-power" machines.

Oh well, if we didn't have fanboys, half of the gaming sites we have today would never exist.

[Retard]

Yeah, this is lame; I what he said off the title topic was more interesting. People want these two consoles to be the same. He's be more right in saying the consoles will break from each other through time(Other then the obvious marketing side).

[TheXgamerLive]

He did say that (MAYBE) the ps3 had more processing power but that the Xbox 360 (DID) have more available memory. Just a thought, kidding, it's no big deal, ........give us the games man, give us the games!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[THAMMER1]

Your right "Z"

[Anerythristic26]

This has been said by 90% of developers already. The only people who think there is a measurable difference are the fanboy legions.

[Sphinx]

...he seems to know what he's talking about... 1080p has always been over-hyped... when it comes to TV and movies, great, but it kills videogames' refresh rates!

[ScorpioKyle]

exactly, 1080p doesn't matter to me right now. Since my HDTV only goes up to 1080i

[Capt CHAOS]

I want a good refresh rate..

[TheMART]

We all about knew it. Equal in power BUT

720p is the sweet spot as MS already stated and almost everybody will have a 720p HDTV

Still remains: The 360 is more easy to program on/for. PS3 costs 5 times as much to develop a game on and the users on 360 are on 10 million on the end of this year, PS3 only 500k.

There you go. That's why 360 has and will have the most exclusives and get the exclusives from PS3 more easy.

[Retard]

I guess Xbox will start to get to future generic cr@p! Woohoo!

Seriously though, that opinion seems logical enough other then the fact in about ~3 years. I am more then willing to bet that Blu-Rays role in gaming will take major effect.

In that time, Blu Ray will be cheaper to make w/ games, and PS3 will be easier to develope for.

So, as an unbais opinion goes; don't you think I'm right maybe even to a slight 1%? Or are you completely stuck with Xbox360 that you see it impossible PS3 to have a future.

I'll have them both consoles either way.

[InMyOpinion]

Where's the support for Blu-ray? All the big movie companies have abandoned it already...I predict it will follow the same path as the minidisc - another revolutionary invention from the people at Sony.

[TheMART]

Retard. That's retarded what you say there.

Full use of BR? Use of what exactly. Space?

Listen. Last gen started just under 2 GB average. After five year it ended between 3 and 4 GB average.

That's 50% to 100% growth in data.

Now this new gen, the games start on SL-DVD. About 4,5 GB average. Make that growing 50% to 100%. Yup. Over 5 years about 7 GB to one DL-DVD.

ANd for the few games that won't fit on one, are able to fit on two DL-DVD's. What's the problem exactly? I had 6 diskettes for Metal Gear Solid Snake II on my MSX-2. Now that was some swapping there, but 2 DL-DVD's for a minority of games, let's say the same with DL-DVD on last gen that was 1% or less...

Well you get the point.

No advantage, but costing 33% more then the competition doing the same in graphics but having better and more exclusives. Easy choice this Christmas with Gears and the coming years!

[candystop]

..

[Retard]

Seriously; look past an Xbox or PS3 MART. I guess you can't see PS3 making any future for itself. I on the other hand want both consoles to be successful, your bais opinions now lack intelligence bud. I kinda got my point proven w/ this.

Oblivion, It was on PC also; but I'll use this as my prime example. I hated it (Story was neat though) I hated the fact it only had what seemed like 4 voice actors, and lack of depth. THe radiance of the NPCs was lame as well. They would repeat the same exact things.. over and over. They simply ran out of space. (AS THEY SAID, not me.)

So pretty please with sugar on top, explain to me how you'd swap a disc of Oblivion.

[power of Green]

Like i said you have intresting points of view, you see it as flame fuel i see is as flame retardant. Only Sony fanboys that convince themselfs PS3 is leaps and bounds more powerful will have a problem.

[Tut]

I wouldn't single out JUST the PS3 fanboys.

TheMART was on time to represent the XBox 360 fanboy side. =)

Most people never really cared about the power or who's was better, but rather the quality of the games that were coming out on the machine.

Besides, we should all be happy that we are all a part of this gigantic leap in gaming technology. It f'ing rocks!

[power of Green]

Yah! he's over the top when it comes to forcing the truth on people that don't want to hear the truth. Thats not my beef better that than lies or spining out of hate or spite.

[dantesparda]

Kid, you're funny. Since when is opinion "truth"? First he says that 720P is "the sweetspot". Ok, let's get this straight, higher resolution is better than lower resolution. Period! So 1920x1080 is better than 1280x720. Period! however he is right in that for the Xbox 360 and the PS3 1080P is too high a resolution for these two systems. So therefore making 720P the better choice for these 2 systems. But lets not get it twisted, 720P is not better than 1080P. Period! so can we stop the "stupidity". PS3 costs 5 times more to develop for than 360? really? where? where does it say that? and who said it? did everybody say it? or just a developer or two? And the 360 is going to have 10 million units sold by the end of the year? Now this is just a straight up opinion. We have yet to see. And we shall see at the end of the year, but this is not a fact, but rather a "hope" based on a projection. "and thats why 360 is going to have the most exclusives"? While that may be true now, he states it as a trueism going forward and once again, that is just a fanboys opinion, he doesnt know if thats going to be true or not in the future. And that the 360 is easier to develop for than the PS3? Ok, now, while I may believe this to be true also as of now, this really only matters until the programmers learn how to program on the hardware. And you's know that theres a flip side to the whole "easier to develop for/harder to developer for" coin. The flip side (that nobody seems to talk about) is that on easier to develop for platforms, you tend to get laziness and slacking and not as much incentive to push the hardware. Whereas on harder to develop for platforms, you tend to yield better results as developers start to figure out the system. And then you usually start to get better results than you ever expected. So "truth"? I dont think so, but rather just another rabid fans opinions, is more of what Im seeing. But perception is reality to most people, and the more things seem or sound like you percieve them, the more you'll see them as reality. But Im sorry to have to tell you this, but perception is NOT reality. So recognize

[TheMART]

The sweet spot is where the machines will operate best.

Where the framerate/graphics etc. mix is best. And with demanding games it'll not be on 1080p.

720p with 4 x AA and HDR will look better then 1080p without 4 x AA. Especially when the framerate in 720p is constantly above 30 fps and with 1080p it could hit under 24 for example.

Now that's a sweet spot. Like last gen XBOX could do 720p already and 1080i. But the sweet spot was 480p.

You could argue but you're not able to analyse.

10 million 360 units sold is accounting. Accounting on what they've sold already. ANd millions of people shopping consoles for Christmas, but only 80.000 available PS3's in Japan, 400k or less in USA and NONE in Europe or the rest of the world. So PS fans that can't find any could step in.

And millions of parents will buy 360 with Viva Piniata. It has a TV show, it'll be a hit. Millions of 360 units in no time

[candystop]

Tools like XNA were designed to give developers more time to focus on the artistic side rather than programming side thanks to it's ease of use! Better tools and easier tools are a good thing because they allow developers more time to really put together what they set out to do rather than trying and trying to get something to work! Thanks to tools like XNA we will start to see a difference in quality with exclusive titles for 360 because the games will have a very distinct art style not found anywhere else!It really doesn't matter which system is more powerful because the 360 will always get better results in the end without a doubt! You can protect and say what you think about PS3 all you want but nobodys buying it anymore! The 360 is a game machine that will not be rivaled this generation! Sure PS3 may or may not sell more this generation but who cares because with 360 you will be getting your moneys worth with top games and exclusives! It would be ashame for people like yourself to not tell people the truth as to which sytem is better for gaming! Even if these consoles are somewhat the same in power just watch as overtime 360 games will always look better thanks to the tools used to develop it's

[dantesparda]

Im not "analyzing"? Who's not analyzing here? I wasnt saying that 1080P without 4xAA looks better than 720P w/4xAA. I was saying that 1080P is a higher res than 720 and therefore better, as far as a "Res" goes. But I see that you take it and use it, just to go back to your typical canned talking points. I agree that for these systems (and by "these" Im speaking about the 360 & the PS3) that 720P is a better choice, because you're right you will be trading off framerate and quite possibly texture detail and geometry complexity depending on the game. But the fact remains that features aside, 1920x1080 is a higher and therefore better res than 1280x720 as far as aliasing, detail and screen realestate go. Also, if you understand technology better, you would see that a large amount of 360 games are either, actually shutting off the AA or bringing it down in samples to 2x when displaying in 720P. So thinking that all games are running in 720P with FSAA @ 4xAA is wrong! Its simply not true! Just look at Rainbow Six Vegas for a example of this. Set the res at 480P and look at the aliasing, then set it to 720P and then tell me that AA isnt being turned off. Same thing with CoD2 and the list goes on and on. Dont even let me get into the lack of trilinear filtering between the transistional lines between the MIPMAPS. That to me is just completely and utterly unexcuseable.
Also, "10 millions units according to accounting"? hm, I dont know about that, but like I said, "we shall see". We will know soon enough, either closer to Christmas or after it. So soon enough. And I forget the rest of the points you made because I dont wanna scroll up to re-read the message (or resort to any other methods to be able to see your message like "copying and pasting" it onto a text file.
And to the guy after Mart, Im sorry but you are just a complete and utter m0r0n. The 360 is far superior to the PS3? (or whatever the hell you said). That's m0r0nic. The 360 and PS3 are more or less equal, they trade blows back and forth with each other in terms of capabilities. With one being just slighty more powerful overall than the other. There is no, one crushing the other

[ManWithSword]

the PS3 and 360 are equal in power, then why does the PS3's launch titles look as good, if not better, than the 360's second generation of titles? This guy is incorrect in saying that the 360 has an advantage in terms of memory. The PS3's RSX can access the 256 MB of XDR RAM if it needs it. Moreover, the XDR System RAM runs at 3.2 Ghz, along with 256 MB GDR RAM @ 800 Mhz (I think), whereas the 360 has a uniform 512 MB GDR RAM @ 800 Mhz (I think). In both cases, memory has to be used for graphics, AI, physics, the level map etc. Its just that the PS3 splits the memory between graphics and system memory, but the graphics can nevertheless access the system memory. Having the greater processsing power also gives the PS3 a huge advantage for graphics because in game assets such as clouds can be procedurally generated ie. created on the fly, rather than pre-drawn and pre-animated, which requires lots of memory for storage. This guy sounds like he's been paid by MS to say both systems are equal in power, when the truth is the PS3 is a much more advanced machine.

[Sphinx]

...that way you can sleep at night or whatever.

[PS360PCROCKS]

and your paid by sony correct?

[power of Green]

What does MS launching the 360 yearly and putting out graphicaly alright launch tittles to build some base before all three consoles come on the market have to do with the 360's power?. You PS3 fans can twist sheit all you want MS took a big risk to extablish some fanbase by launching first with average looking games. It worked. Too Human, Gow, Mass Effect. started the same time as the rest of the launch tittles MS just allowed Less dev time for some to make the launch.

[Boink]

you must be right, the countless developers saying the exact same thing must know less than you.

[LiquifiedArt]

your right.. its very apparent the ps3 is more powerful barnone, anyone who says otherwise is trying to appease the fans.

[slugg]

IS that the PS3 has been delayed so many times that its launch titles have been in development as long as 360's second-gen titles. Compare Gears of War to Resistance, side-by-side, games that have been in development for almost the same amount of time, and tell me that PS3 is more powerfull then. I think the 2 systems are virtually equal, and FEATURES + EXCLUSIVE CONTENT will decide the battle. Will Sony's free online be able to compete with Live? Will Sony have enough exclusives to battle MS's Gears of War, Halo 3, Forza 2 and Fable 2 Juggernauts? Time will tell....

[Retard]

Good to see people still have humor in the mist of these forums. =)

[InMyOpinion]

and watch the latest Gears of War multiplayer gameplay movies. If that is'nt enough to prove the point you're just as retarded as you sound...

[willymcd]

you can't compare new games with ones that are a year old! that part has nothing to do with hardware that is developers who make the games.

[richie007bond]

Get over your self man,heres the proof the guy stated the 360 and ps3 are equal in power and yes the 360 has the advantage in memory and gpu,where the ps3 has the advantage in the cell, both have their own streagths and weakness.

[Mr Pumblechook]

I love my xbox 360. And I love that Microsoft have been bold by marketing it to the g*y community in the UK. There are always competitions for it at London club G.A.I.Y

But this silly man believes that the 360 and PS3 are roughly the same yet he contradicts himself when he says..
"Maybe the PS3 has more processing power...

On the topic of 1080p resolutions vs. 720p, Dyack said that 1080p and HDMI (which is standard on the PS3) cable interfaces have the edge...
720p is just less pixels"
Live Gamer tag:EIGHTHOURS

[JIN KAZAMA]

that 360 has 512MB of ram and PS3 has 256MB.
Why dont you guys understand that the PS3 just has the 512 split, and that it can access all 512MB if the dev choose to do so.
Also, the Cell is way more powerful than the 360 cpu. The game right now, outshine the 360 games. COD3 is a 2nd gen 360 game, while its a first Gen PS3 game, the ps3 version has been in development less than the 360 and its looking better than the 360 version. Come on people, this guy is getting paid by MS to say this, dont let MS trick you. PS3 is way more advanced than the 360, the RSX and Cell combined are way more powerful than the 360's gpu. Once the devs tap into the PS3's potential, which is about 1 to 2 years from now, we are going to se games that will be looking better than the Killzone '05 trailer. Not just looks, but gameplay wise also, with the Cell handling all the physics. "Play B3yond"

[Ravenator529]

You shouldn't have used a COD3 comparison. As of right now, the 360 version is looking better according to a person who has had "hand's on experience" with both of the games.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsS...

[JIN KAZAMA]

because the devs themselves said that the PS3 version will look better. Better particle affects, and lighting etc. So i believe the devs over some guy that had "hands on experience".

[Oncnawan]

Link please?

As a matter of basic console strengths, you should be incorrect. It is my understanding that, as a basic tenet, the PS3 has an advantage in drawing geometry, while the 360 has the advantage in particle effects.

Irregardless, please supply a link to statements made by the developers to the effect that the PS3 version will look superior to the 360.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

I have heard many people claim, and seen reports of devs saying that the split 512mb of RAM can be accessed by the dev if they want. My question to you and anyone else for that matter is this:

If they can access all 512mb of RAM if they want, then would this not be infact general purpose RAM? Should it not be listed as split RAM of 256mb for the GPU & CPU respecitively, but rather listed as one 512mb block of RAM? Why would it be listed as dedicated 256MB of RAM if it really isnt?

Not trying to flame hear...just not seeing the reasoning.

[Raist]

A dude that currently develops a game for the x360 is a proof ? unbiased ?

Why are you guys cautious on some sources, and not for others, lol.

That's just an useless statement anyways. Who cares what system is "more powerful". We just want devs that make games with talent and skills. Some PS2 games are gorgeous, even if it's the weakest system. They should quit trying to blame the hardware.

[power of Green]

All i have to say is 360's launch tittles graphics have more to do with time allowed than it's capabilities. It will be intresting to see fanboys try and size up the 360's capabilites because of it's luanch tittles in coming years. ((((((#12.1 yah! yah! yah! Heard that Song before. Not buying it this is the same thing you PS fans did when the Xbox came out.

[JIN KAZAMA]

its far after that also. Most of the games that have come out since the launch have been dissapointing. The gameplay and graphics are weak. The only game I can think of that has good graphics is GOW. But that is comming at a cost. How many people on screen?? 3 at most, its dark as hell, so they are getting away with hiding a lot of stuff. I saw the multiplayer HD videos, the game looks nice, but there is no one around to fight in these environments. The 360 has been a huge dissapointment, only hardocre xbox fans are buying the 360. The majority of the gamers are waiting to purchase the PS3. The 360 has just been comming out with crappy game after game. Even SC:DA is a bust, its fairly above average, but nothing mind blowing.
R:FOM, just look at all the stuff its offering, its offering SO much in terms of gameplay and graphics, and its a 1st Gen game. Come on 360 fans, open your eyes.

[Boink]

yeah, and your opinion is about as unbiased opinion as marts.

and I'm sure every single game on the ps3 will be a must have/AAA title right? have fun fighting giant crabs.

there will be gems and stinkers on both systems, get over it.

[Ravenator529]

I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you!

I myself purchased a 360 and I was by far a huge PS user. Not only did I do a few beta test's for the PS2, I am a member of G.A.P. (gamer advisory panel) and a 4 year member to the official message boards.

I made my decision to purchase a 360 because I was convinced that after E3, Sony is not in this thing for the gamer. This is my opinion and is the reason why I made my choice.

I didn't even own an original XBox!

I didn't even fully complete Halo and Halo 2 until about 6 months ago!

And I can tell you that there are a lot of gamers like myself who are making the switch!

[rj81]

I posted this article because I thought it was fairly unbiased and gives a quick account of the strengths of each system.

YET STUPID FANBOYS FIND SOMETHING TO FIGHT ABOUT! ARGH!

[LiquifiedArt]

WHo think 1280x720 pixels vs 1900x1080 pixels is no differnt are COMPLETE AND UTTER MORONS. I bought a 23inch monitor for a reason, because 1280x720 has been around FOREVER!@#!@. The Butter is in teh HIGHER RES. 1900 and UP. Complete Newbs!

[power of Green]

??????...... Huxely will blow PS3 games out of the water so will Alan Wake,Lost Odyessy, Mass Effect 1 2 3, GoW 1 2 3. Its not possible for PS3 to match the detail the 360 can handle. Even that g@y ass Prey game was technicly a 1st gen game(deved years before the 360 was out) that still looks better than PS3 offerings. Exspect Too Human to shap up to be a stuner also.

[Marriot VP]

how about the 99.9% of consumers who don't have a 1080p HDTV.

Get over yourself and your company

[kmis87]

The game generations are typically defined by the amount of time developers have had with the final dev kits. That's why MGS4 and FFXIII won't be considered first gen games when they hit stores in late 2007 or in 2008. The fact that Prey was in development for like 6 years, doesn't make it any less a second gen game.

[dantesparda]

Here we go with the other stupidity, that because most of us dont have a 1080P TV set that 1080P doesnt matter. These is the other stupidity that is uttered on this site all the time. People if a game is rendered internally at 1080P it is going to look higher res than a game render at 480P or 720P. It doesnt matter that the TV isnt 1080P, it will still look higher res. You will notice less aliasing, period! Now, yes to get the full quality out of it, you would want a 1080P set, but that doesnt mean that the games resolution wont still look better than a lower res game. So please shut up with this stupid sh!t already, for this is a weak and pathetic argument

[LiquifiedArt]

Did any one of you Buffoons notice, hes an X360 Developer... Umm yea DUh!@# Paid and had a pole up the butt by M$ to support there less then averate console.

"Buy an Xbox360, go ahead Support Mediocrity!"

[THWIP]

...you ignorant jackass. Too Human is the ONLY 360 exclusive game SK is working on. They are working with other platforms/consoles as well...as they ALWAYS have. MS isn't "paying" ANYBODY for such an objective comment. If he'd said "the 360 is far and away more powerful than the PS3", it would seem like a solicited response.

[Deceased]

HIGHLY PAID DEVELOPERS? WHAT NO I didn't think so, i trust what this guys says before anyone on this site. And JIN all the sources I've checked says COD# looks better and runs smoother on the 360, as posted in the link above by Ravenator529. Sony fanboys are blind, any and every gaming source states GOW is the best looking and highly detailed game they have ever seen, EVER.

[Deceased]

http://www.joystiq.com/2006...

[Marriot VP]

nope, proof is in the taste of the pudding
http://www.wii60.com/videog...

[CyberSentinel]

Without enough Dedicated Video ram, you will have slowdown. There is much more raw processing then just video that every app has to calculate. So if you take ram from system resourses, you WILL have slowdown. Developers will have to balance this out very carefully when they create games for mutli-patforms. There may not be much diffrence at first, but eventually the diffrences will become obvious as games get more graphically intense. (example-lvls modified-down sized, texture reductions, character poly model limits, whatever will balance out the workload (and still remain "Playable")on the limited ram constraints. Think of it like your PC, if you have a Nvidia 7950 with "256" on board Vram, how well do you think your games will play?
How much do you think it will matter that you have a 3.8gig processor?or 4 gigs of system ram?

Your gaming experience will be lousy!

period.

[THWIP]

...as this video proves:

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Across the board, over the next 5 years, the differences...if any...between 360 and PS3 visuals will be insignificant. As always, software...particularly quality exclusives...sell consoles. The XBOX was the undisputed winner of the graphics war last gen; however, in the end, that didn't make much difference. For the next year or so, MS owns Sony in the software department. Whether or not Sony can hold onto the remaining exclusives they have, and obtain a few more, will determine this gen. MS will likely drop the price of the 360 next X-mas. Combine that with their impressive library of games (by that time, it will be insane), and Sony has little chance. The death dealer could be Blu-Ray; if it doesn't establish itself as an outright replacement for DVD quickly enough...or at all...the PS3 is done for. No amount of graphical power will be able to save it.

[CyberSentinel]

I /agree.

[Marriot VP]

when you say next CHRISTmas, I'm not sure which one you mean but I think the most logical price drop time would be 2 months after this Christmas, so like 5 months. PS3 shortages would start to drop a little and it would finally be considered a competing product, along with the wii. Also Microsoft wants to make money this christmas to afford a price drop in the future so I think they'll keep it the same. It's not like their gonna have a hard time selling out all their 360's. So naturally keep the same price.

And a price drop too soon to christmas would make consumers mad because they just bought one and missed the sale. So a couple months buffer makes the most sense.

[jdktech2010]

GET OVER IT!!!!!!
The fact that you are spending much of your life on this website arguing about who's system is better is well...kinda retarded. Think about it, Jin's argument is over how COD3 has "Better particle affects, and lighting". Well holy s**t, let me go shun the 360 because of freaking lighting. Please stop arguing about first-gen games and second-gen games. They are what they are. 360 has been out a year more than the ps3...great, we get it. You think that the 360 just isn't gonna get better and the graphics are as far as they can get at the moment. (Hey if that's what makes you happy...go for it, but we haven't seen Itagaki's Ninja Gaiden 2 just yet). But for the rest of us non-biased people who want to support both systems because they will both have quality games...please argue pointlessly on some other website.

Now that I'm done ranting. On to the topic at hand.

The Silicon Knights have been around for a long time and I believe what they say. They are basically stating facts - PS3 has more processing power and 360 has more memory. He's just stating facts. If he was payed by Micrsoft as Jin suggests then why would he just say they are equal? Wouldn't he say something to the effect that the 360 is 3x as powerful than the PS3 and will have better games and HDDVD will win? He wasn't payed, he was just giving his un-biased opinion. If people can't accept that, then that's their problem for not trusting anyone in the world. Most developers have their preference on systems but it seems like this guy supports both systems equally because I'm pretty sure the Too Human thing was scored with money by Microsoft but Silicon Knights will not alienate the PS3. Anyway, you Sony fanboys should be happy Microsoft is putting up more of a fight because it just means that Sony can't sit on its a*s and churn out mediocre products. They actually have to work at it now. Same goes for the Microsoft fanboys.

My overall point is stop crying when something happens to debase your system from its alleged God status. Whichever system you buy, you wil be happy and therefore you will stop arguing. Thank you and I hope all you can take this well and not rebuttle with a stupid comment.

[Deceased]

The 360 was running at 60fps versus 30fps and the PS3 version is lacking multi-player (where it really counts). The proof is in the pudding: http://www.joystiq.com/2006...

http://www.wii60.com/videog...

http://www.xbox365.com/news...
In the last link do you NOTICE there are no player shadows in the PS3 version? Not powerful enough for shadows?

You are paying more money for the same games=funny LOL

[Marriot VP]

nice to see somebody else is using the ps3 comparison with their cgi trailers and what's actually being delivered.

[Tut]

Personally... I see a big difference in the quality of the screens on 360 and PS3 in that last link. The 360 version looks slightly better than something on the PS2. Granted, the PS3 version doesn't look much better (it's no Resistance or GoW quality), but to me it looks crisper and a good noticeable leap better than the XBox 360 version. But that is me and my gaming style. As for the fps performance I will wait until I am playing it to decide that for myself.

I seriously doubt there is any hope for either of you two to be considered an unbiased source or even a credible source. Glad to see you're still flinging crap like you're primate friends, Paul! =) I think you are just too upset with the fact that PS fans are overall happy with what they will be getting and don't really have reasons to doubt that, at least as of now.

PS... there are shaders, are you seriously blind?

[Arkham]

One thing that was interesting was the fact that they were only using old PS3 dev kits. Who knows what they'll do with the new kit. Unfortunately from the sounds of it they got the new ones far too late to make much of a difference.

[Retard]

COD1/2/3 Didn't we get enough already? The WW2 shooters I think have been done before? AHH!

Phucking stupid ass game line, these games are the dying effect of last generation consoles. Next-generation needs more the buffed up graphics and smoother gameplay. How about something NEW altogether.

Paying & Playing the same game for a third time w0000t.

[TheMART]

Oh wait...

So a WWII shooter with some aliens added suddenly makes it all different?

Thanks for saying Resistance is sh!t also

Something new... Yeah I know. Gears of War

[Raist]

C'mon...

Hide, shoot, run, hide, shoot, run.

I mean it's like time crisis but with less fun XD

[borgome]

This post shouldn't have more comments than the GOW multiplayer footage. Who gives a rip about the power of the consoles, just as long as they can run games like GOW.

[VirtualGamer]

It would appear that he contradicts himself though. First he says.....

" He comments that the "PS3 has more processing power. The 360 has more available memory.

Then later says this...

"It takes a lot more RAM to do 1080p. "

So if the 360 has more RAM then the PS3 and 1080p takes alot more RAM then why is it that the PS3 is the only system with native 1080p games?

[THWIP]

Sony is the one shoving Blu-Ray and 1080p down the world's collective throat, while saying "we're the only console that can deliver". Well, that's because they're the only company that CARES about those 2 things. MS has stated many many times, that 1080p wasn't/isn't relevant (particularly when the 360 was being designed 3-4 years ago). However, just to shut Sony up about 1080p, they're about to prove that a software update CAN INDEED make the 360 competent in the 1080p arena. Native/upscaled isn't the issue....it's the what the human eye can detect that matters. Again, this next gen won't be about graphics...the differences will be negligible.

[PS360PCROCKS]

Ok wow yeah thank you very much "jdktech2010" I totally agree, this arguing over random insignificant things are really childish but more on topic this rediculous point people are trying to make on comparing the PS3 and Xbox 360's launch games is moronic, plain and simple, the ONLY thing developers did at launch was make pretty graphics of old gen games and put them out for $60 knowing they would sell, EVERY game but COD2 that was developed for the 360 and not an old gen game was good, PDZ, PGR3, Condemned and you could even throw in DOA4 too, oh wait full auto blew so my bad their... EA, Activision, every company knew that it was a new system therefore we needed games, they did it for money...Notice how EVERY game now from NHL, NBA, PGA, etc is better visually, graphically, and has more gameplay things thrown in? ALL games now are being developed specifically for next gen systems on next gen hardware, and next gen game engines to take advantage of everything, notice how what everyone is talking about is RFOM and Motorstorm and Warhawk? Their original and developed JUST for the PS3 so theirfore they're using everything next gen. I'm sorry but it's obvious to see that if these launches were flipped and the 360 were coming out this year, the PS3 would of had the crappy ports of old gen games and the 360's launch would look much better just as the ps3's does now...

[THELANDOFSAND]

they may seem equal in power, but they sure show a difference in the games...

[richie007bond]

How old are you man 12,your comments are childest to say the least weres your links your proof, the rxs was downgraded and the 360 gpu was still more advanced before the downgrade lol the rsx is nothing more than a 7600gt ,face facts jin the xbox 360 gpu wipes the floor with the rsx,why dont you think theres not been much information from sony on the rsx, strange that really from all the little snippets of specs about the ps3 gpu the bigger picture is it was never a modifed 7900gtx but more of a 7600gt,watch and learn jin ull be eating your own bull soon enough...

[JIN KAZAMA]

If the 360's gpu wipes the floor with the rsx, then how come the games look better than the 360's. FNR3 looks better, RR7 looks better, Virtua Tennis looks better, Full Auto looks better, the devs say COD3 will look better. If the 360's gpu is so muich better, what about thsoe games?? Oh now you're going to say, well, the PS3 had a year longer to dev. for those games, but they didnt give the final dev kits until this june. Come on, you dont make any sense, since the 360 gpu is so much more advanced and poweful than the rsx, its getting beat. Since the 360 is so easy to develop for, the PS3 always has more stuff in the multiplatform games. Come on kids, let it go. The PS3 is just a better platform. The 360 has been out a year, with very medicore games, thats the bottom line.
All you guys talk about is the future games, Maa Affect, Halo 3..Huxley..or whatever.
But hardl any of you tlak about teh games that have been released, they are easily forgetten becuase they were sub par. Even SC:DA is OK, not great. Very dissapointing for the 360. In a few years, the 360 will be nothing more than a paper weight.

[THWIP]

...you're a f***ing moron. Period. Don't bother replying, because I just needed to state that fact.

[Marriot VP]

No way, Jin I guess your right. FNR3 and Full Auto, only having over 6 months more development time end up looking better than the 360 versions.

What about developers saying it takes twice the time/energy to develop the same game on a PS3 rather than a 360. What about the developers saying their basically equal in overall performance.

I'm still shocked how you have 4 bubbles, considering your extreme fanboy remarks that make no logical or unbiased sense.

Oh and I'm awaiting your response....*OHHHH*

[candystop]

Full auto does not look better on PS3! It's got way to much gray and not enough color! Also it appears as though the destruction has been turned down and they removed the rewind mode! FNR3 looks great in 1st person but in 3rd looks horrid compared to the 360 version and I wonder why! Keep your faith in all your PS3 games because they have nothing on what 360 has to offer and will offer in the future! I don't know who your trying to convince that the PS3 is better crap to but I know better and will never buy a Sony console again!

[DJ]

Everything that Jin said about the PS3 is correct. Most developers agree that the PS3 is more powerful. I mean, how many devs have to come out on magazines and online interviews saying "This game is only possible on the PS3" before you give in? Visual Concepts, Factor 5, SquareEnix, Naughty Dog, Insomniac(yes, they're 3rd party), Silicon Knights(an MS-published company), Evolution Studios, and a bunch of other devs have already said that the PS3 has more processing power. And so far the games are definitive proof that these statements are true. Come on, there isn't a single 360 game that has both full vehicular destruction and 20 opponents at once, yet a launch title like Motorstorm is pulling it off (and with graphical superiority to boot). Surely, that must mean something. =P

[richie007bond]

Like i said JIN, watch and learn ull be eating all ur BLIND SONY FANBOY bull soon enough,THE PS3 WILL BE RELEASED SOON so we will see the true specs of the rsx and weep,like i keep said before RSX=7600GT get over it boy,and stop with your pathetic rants your only making a d:ck of yourself

[highps3]

IF THE 360 IS SO EASY TO DEV FOR WHY DOES EVERY GAME REQUIRE A PATCH?

WHY DOES EVERY GAME HAVE VSYNC TURNED OFF?

WHY DOES EVERY GAME LAG, STUTTER, CAUSE SYSTEMS TO OVERHEAT?

Oh and dont think gears of war will be any different there is already a video out with it having screen tearing issues.

[highps3]

Oh and if you dont believe me about vsync

http://www.gametrailers.com...

At around 50 - 60 seconds into video when they are by the stairs...

Can they make a game that doesnt have "an issue"? I mean its so easy to program for!

Whats even funnier is not one gameplay video of ANY game on a PS3 has this problem. The most i have seen is a little slow down in Full Auto 2. And I do mean a little nothing like 360.

Guess we will find out Nov 17th.

Why do you all put up with buggy games on the 360? Dont think it will get any better.

Gears of War = owned by vsync!

Guess the needed those extra frames because its going to laggggggg...

[Arkham]

To be fair I don't think we can say that with any certainty just yet. It's hard to judge these games by videos alone.

There are bound to be tradeoffs in order to achieve the level of detail GOW enjoys. But by opting for third-person, and restricting the number of concurrent players, the game is able to give us some stunning graphics. Throw in the innovative gameplay and all minor quibbles will be forgotten. No game is perfect, but this one is certainly closer than any other 360 game for the forseeable future. (Cough-Halo-Cough...)

[borgome]

ahhhh, thats so cute, little ps3 fanboy is still having wet dreams of playing his console. If you think sony's first attempt at online gaming is going to run flawless you really are living in a fantasy world.

[highps3]

Seriously this is nothing unusual with the 360, correct? Splinter Cell has same issue.

Dont think this game will be any different than other 360 games. I already call one major glitch that will require a patch!

Game wont lag online because there is nothing going on. Its 8 players with very little physics, explosions, tracers.

Look at the explosions from that Ray gun, they stink. BF2 looks better.

Go try and find any ps3 game with screen tearing.

Resistance textures might be worse but look at the explosions, amount of tracers, etc yet no screen tearing in ANY video, and its a launch game!

360 users need to stop being such fanboys and stand up for yourselves. Bugggy game after buggy game after buggy game.

When is enough enough?

Gear of War imo does look like a solid game but there is no reason for this. If it has screen tearing it will most likely lag also due to them not wanting to risk the FPS drop from vsync.

This is not jsut any game either this is the biggest game you guys will have for awile, i doubt Halo 3 will top this in the visual department so why should people just accept screen tearing?

[highps3]

Yes Ps3 probably will lag on day one thats the truth atleast its not lagging nearly 4 years later @ $50 a year!!!!

[borgome]

The over the shoulder view in GOW is the best perspective I've seen so far, just like res4, and GRAW, the first person view is becoming outdated. Resistance brings nothing new to the table, at least GOW is innovative and different. I wouldn't be surprised if Halo 3 has an over the shoulder view as well.

Also the quick movement of your character in the first person view in resistance and UTk7 inmo is very unrealistic.

[Daewoodrow]

No Sh*t.

How many times have I said this already. Only a total moron would believe the advertising stats. I'm sick of the whole "anything you can do I can do better" crap, the two consoles are basically the same. If it was the power I was concerned about, I would be buying both consoles.

[UNREAL-T]

i have to wait til ps3 comes out, then i'll tell u who's better.

[DJ]

When your developer says that a competitor's console is more powerful, that says a lot. We've known for a year and a half that the PS3 is significantly more powerful than the 360, and yet people just can't seem to accept that. They're so intent to protect a piece of plastic and metal that they'll spread misinformation on an hourly basis in order to trick unknowing consumers. It's really pathetic how far some of these people are taking things, despite the fact that they've been proven wrong every single time.

No matter how much PS3 titles improve and show more and more superiority over their 360 counterparts, the haters will simply repeat the same accusations, and it's pretty funny how ridiculous their comments look now that games like Motorstorm get closer and closer to Sony's "CG Lies", which (as we get further along) look more and more like "CG Truths".

[candystop]

Who knew that PS3 was a much more powerful system? The only people that said that were sony fanboys and Sony themselves! It's been an hilarious year and a half with you Sony fans constantly preaching lie after lie! November 17th is right around the corner and if 360 is a better system I will crack up like never before! Come on I mean PS3 had an extra year or 2 to design there system and it's looking out dated already! So what are you going to say DJ once you find out that PS3 sucks in comparision to 360 on the 17th? I can't wait to hear come that day!

[DJ]

Most of the PS3 games look great and show a noticeable technological prowess over 360 titles that becomes more and more apparent as each month passes.

The fact that some people are claiming PS3's launch titles are 2nd-gen shows that they not only admit that the titles look amazing, but also refuse to give props to developers for their hard work and dedication, despite only recently receiving their dev kits (relatively speaking). The final 360 dev kits were released 14 months ago, while PS3's final dev kits were released only 4 and a half months ago.

That information is indisputible. Even the Fight Night developers said that they only had 9 months to create the PS3 version, and yet look at what they achieved. The consensus among most developers is that PS3 is significantly more powerful, and I take their word above any kind of false spec printouts from ATI or Microsoft.

[ElementX]

WTF ever. PS3 isn't more powerful. Didn't Kingboy (Sony fanboy) say in one comment that Gears of War had the best graphics of any game he played at Micromania? How can you say that PS3 is better when a fanboy claims the opposition has a better looking game?

[beans]

Why don't you wait for PS3 to come out 1st before you say to much and end up dissapointed! I want the best for PS3 but let's just face it and understand that right now 360 just has more to offer the gamers!

[borgome]

.

[coxyefc]

"Oh well, if we didn't have fanboys, half of the gaming sites we have today would never exist. "

Fanboys spoil gaming websites in my view, the narrow mindness of them is embarassing at times. Look, last gen we had the xbox,ps2 and gamecube, each had games with stunning graphics, not all games, but some, now the xbox had the best graphics in terms of third party games , was that console top of the pile ? No it wasnt was it? It was the PS2 by far. Why? Because it had the best games and exclusives. This gen is different I feel, for the better because both 360 and PS3 will have superb games for them, the 360 has more going for it this time when it comes to games. I honestly prefer the 360 games though, games like Lost Planet, Mass Effect, Gears of War etc really suit my tastes. Not to say the PS3 will have any of course or Wii, I intend on buying them both in future. If you can just be logical it would really benefit your gaming experience, instead some choose to be loyal to a company, how stupid is that? Do you really think they give a crap about you as a individual? No they dont. They dont buy your food, give you a home etc. Step back and thinking about gaming as a whole instead of being silly.

Oh and if you look at Assassins Creed, Mass Effect, Gears etc, do you honestly think the 360 is a 1.5 machine? If you took your head out of the clouds and be honest with yourself you wouldnt, I know you wouldnt.

[coxyefc]

Oh and if this blu-ray is the future, why is Phil Harrison already stating

"If PS4 has a disc drive, I will eat my hat"

Not many people are arsed about blu-ray, having spent so much money on their dvd collections. Its too soon to change video formats. I also think Microsoft are getting silly with this HD-DVD stuff.

[4me2]

CPU runs code and RAM stores code and other resources like textures, environment maps, bullet count, network code and more and more.
Faster CPU better game play, AI ..........
Bigger textures, more detail on screen.

360 has 512Mb available for texture use.
There has to be a usage balance between code and graphics.
If you use 512Mb for textures than you have beautiful STILL pictures to look at. Game code needs to fit somewhere.
If use a big chunk of memory for code then you may have great game play and AI but graphics will suffer.

[EnforcerOfTheTruth]

First of all I have to give props to Virtual Gamer. You are right on the spot and I can only add that this guy is trying to sell some $hit while saying that it's questionable if there is a difference between 1080p and 720p. Every PC gamer knows there is a visible difference, especially if it's such a big one like between 1280x720 and 1900x1080. This guy is surely everything, but not unbiased. Silicon Knights is published by MS, so there goes their objectivity. People who believe this devs and not independent journalists are just pure fanboys.
THWIP you must be kidding, first MS said 1080p won't be possible this generation, then they said they can also do it and after they found out 1080p on 360 is hardly possible, they said it's not needed. If both consoles would be of roughly equal power, there would be some 1080p titles announced. Nobody wants to stand behind the competition and all MS can do now is hide behind some lameass excuses. If both consoles would be of roughly equal power 360 would offer games like that http://media.ps3.ign.com/me... and not a max 8 characters on screen GOW. Facts speak for themselves and only some unexperienced fanboys use COD3 as indication 360 is more powerful. Activision already made games for the 360 and learned from it. That's not the case with PS3, it's their first attempt on this console and they didn't have the time to learn from other devs. That's why COD3 is a 2nd gen title for 360 but 1st gen for PS3. That's the naked truth and only MS fanboys without any sense deny that. 360 is surely not a bad console and can attract with it's games people that don't own a good PC. Besides that 360 uses an old gen drive, the really negative side is not the console itself, but that it's developed by MS. A company that ripps people off with way too overpriced accessoires. A company that kills a console way too fast not cause they don't have enough money, but cause they just don't care about it's fanbase. A company that already f@cked up PC gaming. I love PC gaming, but I hate what MS is doing to us. Shoving their unstable systems and this crappy Vista down our throats is not that nice. Too bad MS has such a monopoly, too bad there are next to none games released on Linux and too bad there is no alternative to dx10. MS winning the console battle could turn into gamers nightmare and even without having a monopoly, they are already doing some bad ass things. Thank god it will never come that far, cause Sony delivers great consoles with great games and have won many loyal fans with it. Sony never played with my pocket, I'm happy I'm down with them and I'm damn happy I didn't buy Xbox. Too bad some of my friends ain't that happy, but they surely won't make such a mistake again. Truth was enforced.

[borgome]

I had to stop reading half way through that complete load of crap to go and take a crap of my own. Talk about over priced, Sony is the most over price brand out there. Anything with the sony name on it is crap, especially there way over priced tv's.

[beans]

Do you honestly think that anybody with common sense is going to read this garbage and take it serious! Sony and MS are two great companies that are doing whatever it takes to make money and keep us entertained! No one needs your biased 3 page input that was only written to flame and talk crap!

[richie007bond]

More like EnforcerOfTheCR@P lmao

[EnforcerOfTheTruth]

Have fun paying ridiculous money for accessoires. Have fun paying for something PC and PS3 gamers are getting for free. If you want a cheap way watching HD movies, have fun using your crappy addon for a limited time. You must really love how Billy screws your ass LOL

Overpriced? You must be kidding. PS3 is the best deal out there, truth is 360 costs $100 more if it just offers this crappy HD-DVD addon without HDMI. Overpriced can be only something that is sold way over the manufacturing price. 20GB HDD for $99 is ridiculously overpriced. Same goes for the wi adapter.
Sony's other products are maybe not such a good deal like the PS3, but they are by no means overpriced. They are just selling high end and their tv's are way better than any other. If you want overpriced products buy Pioneer. Not better than Sony but more expensive.

[Unknown]

are quite common on this thread. The PS3 is a good deal IF you want both a great game machine and blue ray. If you just want a game machine then you are f_cked. Yep, with SONY you have a choice alright, to spend $500 -$600 or not get sh!t at all. Also 1080p and 720p take about the same processing power so to say that because M$ chose to reveal this feature months after the console was launched doesn't mean they didn't realize that it wasn't important are that they couldn't do it. The just wanted the element of surprise. And the whole monopoly thing is bad whether M$ or SONY is over it. Look at what happened to the phone industry. Oh and DJ all because a developer who has a game on one console gives props to another doesn't mean that the console he is developing on is sh!tty or is in trouble. It just means that he is keeping it real and stating facts. And stop with the launch games argument. That is sooo played out. The games on PS3 should look better because the PS3 is a slightly more powerful machine and the developers have had alot more time with the system. If you don't believe me then search these posts and you will see a comment from Ken stating so. Bottom line is graphics are becoming blurred and the gaming industry as a whole will be forced to make more creative games that push each console to the limits. Both systems will only get better over time.

[DJ]

"Oh and DJ all because a developer who has a game on one console gives props to another doesn't mean that the console he is developing on is sh!tty or is in trouble"

But what I said was: "When your developer says that a competitor's console is more powerful, that says a lot." Where did I state that the 360 is horrible or in trouble? Nowhere. Thanks for the accusation though; I get them a lot.

----------------------------
"Also 1080p and 720p take about the same processing power so to say that because M$ chose to reveal this feature months after the console was launched doesn't mean they didn't realize that it wasn't important are that they couldn't do it."

Actually, it takes twice the processing time and bandwidth because 1080p has 2.25 times the number of pixels as 720p. Of course it's obviously a coincidence that Microsoft added this feature a year and a half after their system was finalized and had nothing to do with the fact that the Playstation 3 supported 1080p from day 1. Right? =P

[no_more_heroes]

I only want to pay for things that I WANT and CARE ABOUT. I don't care about Blu-ray or HD-DVD because I, like more than 95% of the American population (though I'm Jamaican) don't care about paying ridiculous amounts of money just for a prettier version of the same crappy movie or game. IT'S STILL CRAP!!! And I don't like playing crappy games (both ps and xbox)or watching boring movies (most movies out now for HD-DVD and Blu-ray, though HD-DVD has a slight edge in movies that I kinda like as of now). Apparently everyone else does though.

[marionz]

look back at the last gen games, they were usually made to run on ps2 then ported, xbox had extra power but it didnt matter because most games were made to run on the weakst consoles specs, and that will pretty much happen again with alot of multiplatform games this time round, only difference is its xbox that has most of the exclusives now, games will be great nomatter what console is the most powerfull, and people should just have fun playing and stop b1tching bout wot console is best, games matter so buy the console that has the games you want

[ApocalypseShadow]

just a couple of things.if the 360 processor was so POWERFUL,then IBM would be using it for science.or ANY of these companies stepping up to make farms of cells to do complex calculations.name one company besides microsoft using xenon?NONE!ZERO!some people need to get it in their heads about the cell.that chip does more than any chip on the market.as for call of duty.i bet that game and most other games were produced on 360.then ported.what happens during porting?yes that's right.the game doesn't use the system to it's full ability.most games on 360 don't even run at 60fps.and don't run at 1080p at all.why is it so hard for some of you to see that a system coming out 1 year later will have significantly more power and more features?the xbox had it over ps2.the same thing is with ps3 and 360.the 360 has power.but the ps3 has more power.and more features.even if you patched,upgraded and added-on,the ps3 will still have more features out of the box like a web browser and linux.that's fact.and come nov. 17,microsoft will be in for a battle if sony starts firing on all cylinders.and no FAKE CG commercial of gears of war on tv will change that.why is microsoft using cg for the commercial instead of the game?looks like microsoft lies too.

[ElementX]

The 360 processor was designed for gaming, pure and simple. The Cell is designed for different applications altogether. It wasn't designed as a gaming machine, it was designed as a computer you connect to your TV. You have to look at floating point, TFlops, memory bandwidth, processor speed, and other specs before you can say one is more powerful than the other. Besides, IBM is sh!t. They haven't been big name since the early 90s. I don't see IBM computers for sale at stores anymore. Just open your eyes, a gaming machine doesn't have processors designed for supercomputers because supercomputers serve different functions than gaming. Sure IBM designs servers and supercomputers, but that's for business applications and not gaming.

[4me2]

"Besides, IBM is sh!t. They haven't been big name since the early 90s"

That's funny because 360 CPU is IBM 3 Core PowerPC-based chip.
You don't have slightest idea what IBM does. Don't you.

[ElementX]

IBM was chosen by Microsoft to design a gaming processor. Their main funtion today is mainframes and supercomputer type applications. I meant IBM is sh!t to the average person today. Nobody owns an IBM computer. Consumer processors today are manufactured by AMD and Intel mainly. The Cell can be used in supercomputers because it does many functions, not just gaming. The 360 was designed for gaming. Microsoft created a department to design their own processors for the next Xbox. They don't want IBM, Intel, or AMD processors in the next system. OK, so I was hastey to say IBM was sh!t but well, they don't have the same market share as they used to.

[tackleb0x]

IBM and sony spent alot of money developing that chip and its fairly disappointing. There's already architecture designs that will be replacing the cell technology in the very new future for power applications. The cell architecture has advantages though, it runs fairly cool and can be made into many applications like cell phone, laptops, pda's, ect where heat and size need to be kept to a minimum.

[Raist]

Cell just crushes the other superprocessors like opteron, xeon, etc, lol.

And of course in the future there will be better processors. I mean, it's always been like that lol.

[ApocalypseShadow]

for a company to say that the systems are equal strength,but they work for microsoft says something.just like when people talk about ninja theory or naughty dog saying things about ps3.

okay one more thing:how long does it take for this crappy company to release a game?too human has been in development h3ll forever.just like duke nukem and rare as a company is so slow that it takes the next system coming out for them to get their games finished.silicon knights.more like SLOW-icon sheepherders.

[kmis87]

All I care about is when is the next Eternal Darkness game coming out? I don't care about ps3 vs. 360 or Too Human, I want my Eternal Darkness!

[coxyefc]

some of you are incredible, for all the wrong reasons. ask yourselves this, why do you care which console is the most powerful? havent you learned anything from the last gen. does anyone actually plan on owning a 360 AND a PS3? Is it against the law to own both?

Fanboys? Ruin the gaming world.

[HyperBear]

I actually plan on owning on 3 consoles, by the end of 2006, and yea, is it a crime to have all 3, or to have equal interest in all 3 and not be a pathetic d!ck-sucking fanboy like most people on here. NO. Again, I could really care less which is more powerful. Does power make games, NO. Thats only part of games, its actually the developers, the game engines and the graphic chip in systems that make games stand out and come out on the tv. Who really cares which ones is more powerful, or which one is faster. PS3 could have had a 5.0 GHz Processor, and i could really care less. Video Games are all about Games. A PC is where you want the most power for your money, but unfortunately, although Sony says it is, PS3 is not a computer. PlayStation has always been a video game console brand, never a computer.

And how true is that last statement. Fanboys do ruin the gaming world with their complete BS and B!tching about everything they hate and think sucks. Well Nothing sucks, if its only you that hates it.

[coxyefc]

The Wii is my next console purchase. Who cares if the graphics are not as good? The games look a lot of fun, and the Virtual Console is a brilliant idea. Yes you can play them on your PC but I would rather enjoy playing my beloved NES,SNES,Megadrive ,N64 games on a big tv with comfort. Why is the Virtual Console so popular? Is it to do with graphics by any chance?.....

[EnforcerOfTheTruth]

PS3 is not a cheap looking plastic hoover which appears to play games. It's all very stylish and nextgen from inside to the outside. PS3 is not a kids toy nor a half assed nextgen system with an oldgen drive, but a high end multimedia system. Thats Sony's philosophy since PS2, they always wanted to create something more than just a gaming machine and they were always saying PS3 is a multimedia system. Many of their 100 million customers have grown up and want more than just a simple console. Many of their old customers can afford a $500 multimedia system. It's not something mummy and daddy buy for little timmy. It's something mummy and daddy buy for little timmy and for themselves. So if you want only a gaming system and can't afford spending just $100 more for a multimedia system, PS3 is surely the wrong piece of hardware for you. And don't come with that MS is gi8ving people choice. You can hardly choose between DVD and HD-DVD.

[Douglasp]

I laugh when I hear but PS3 first gen to 2nd gen of 360... Or when but 360 has more power due to three real cores compare to 1 real core. Fact of the matter is you guys are all under the age of 25 and know nothing about how games are created. Hardware will always be more powerful than software. It takes a couple of years for software to catch up. Exam: agp or pci ex. Takes years till game engines start to run faster on new hardware then older ones. Game Engines takes time for it to take advantage of the hardware. We all know engines is what drives the games unique look and physics. Some game engines are good and some are not. That is software. It doesn't matter if you have powerful system (360 or ps3) is how you know how to program for. Programing is the key. Do you think generic MP3 players come close to even being as good as IPODS? But my 4gb player cost cheaper than your 4gb IPOD, But my Ipod sells more so its better. Thats how you guys sound its rediculous to hear you guys. Grow up and have rational discutions.
Both systems are POWERFUL. It will lie on what the other offer that one does'nt.
Me for instance Enjoy streaming over 600gb of video and audio to my tv and audio reciever. (advantage 360) while my friend rather see movies in higher res (advantage ps3). What do i say to him?? As long as you are happy is what counts. Do what you have to do to be happy. By the way next time i go over your house let me see a blue ray movie. He might reply next time i go over your house let me see the catalog you have of videos or listen to playlist while playing poker. Be happy for companies make and be happy there is competition.

[videl]

hey you xbots, you are total morons. since when has the ps3 not as much ram as the xbox360 ? the ps3 has the same amount, but a far faster ram. lol 15 days and you fools can see that the ps3 is superior in everything. ms fools will not change that.

[dalectrics]

Moron. Read what you just said and then go reference about 20 of the 50 posts above you. And as far as PS3 "superior in everything", show me a PS3 20GB model wirelessly streaming WMV media straight onto your TV.

Simply impossible.

[drewdrakes]

lol Most of you make me laugh. Especially the comment "the PS3 will be easier to program for in 3 years." What the hell is wrong with you? Because theyre going to change how to program for it? The devs will get used to it, but that doesnt matter, because the devs that havent used it still dont know what the hell to do. And Silicon Knights are great, they know what theyre doing, i live in their city. They work constantly day and night to put out a product, and i would take any opinion they have to give.

Also some idiot at the top was telling that 1080p is the sweet spot. Dont go into this with me man, i have never lost an argument on here about HD. 720p IS the sweet spot, because it is much less CPU intensive. Why do you think RFOM devs said eff it to 1080p? Because its a lot more CPU, for not much better picture. Have you ever compared the 2 pictures side by side? Unless you have a 60 inch widescreen TV, they will look the same. I have a 53 inch.

[gsquad]

I hear X360 fans talk about XNA like it is that holy grail of game programming. Let’s stop and look at some quick facts.

First XNA is mostly for hobbyist to use, in hopes that them will come up with some good content for XBL Arcade

Second Developers don’t use XNA, or at least GOOD developers don’t use XNA
Why because it limits what you can do.(if I am wrong please show me a link to a developer that said that they used only XNA to program their game and come on it needs to be on the GOW level)

Example: Playstation2 you had to write in assembly language, and if you’re a programmer you know that the lower you can get towards the kernel operations the more stuff you can do with the hardware. This is why Xbox even though it was more powerful than PS2 Burnout Revenge’s engine ran better on the PS2. (This is evident in the fact the Xbox version and the PS2 version looked almost exactly alike)

I agree that tools can make programmers lazy but sometimes they are a much needed help. I believe that if you give a programmer too much help though it stifles our creativity.

Look programmers are analytical my nature, we don’t have much of a creative side. Most innovations that come from PROGRAMMING, is from trying to find an easy way of doing something else, and in the exploration we find out that we can do much much more! I can’t speak to who will have the best exclusive and who will get a better result in the end but I will say that programmers are creative out of necessity not because we have all this extra time.

(That’s why if you look almost all the Triple A programming houses they all say that they build their OWN engines!)

Artistic people come up with innovation in there spare time.

But guess what, the phase in which the artist are coming up with ideas is not at the same time that programmers are coding. The artist time is already over. Graphics, Physics, AI, Particles, how people move, etc., etc comes from programmers. Graphical content, i.e. textures, placement of objects, character models, guns, that stuff is the artist. They give that stuff to a modeler and they make a 2d picture into a 3d object. Programmers just make it all work together.

So, in my opinion, PS3 games will look better for two reasons. First programmer will be innovative because they have to be do to the lack of pre-scripted tools, and Second because even if you say that PS3 games right now aren’t graphically better that X360 games. X360 programmers have had the hardware for a whole year and their BEST game GOW is getting compared to Two PS3 LAUNCH titles!!! R:FOM and Motor Storm

That’s big!

Launch games compared to 2gen games says a lot!

PS3 is only going to get better, don’t get me wrong X360 will get better too.
(i.e. Tekken Tag Tournament compared to Burnout Revenge or even Tekken 5 Wow that was a HUGE difference) Go back and look at the pictures!

But if they (X360/PS3) are almost on equal footing at, this time, the PS3’s launch that makes me think that in Two/Three years when the programmers get a good understanding of what the hardware can do, PS3 will blow past the X360 by leaps and bounds. Hey the caught up to them by the end of the PS2 cycle so…….

Just something to think about!

“Jump In” and “Welcom3 Chang3”

P.S. PS3 defiantly need some tools if they want smaller developers to design good games for them. AND THEY ARE COMING!

[drewdrakes]

I respect your opinions but i disagree with many of them. Assembly can be embedded in MS's products like Visual Studio. They do this so that if people choose to, they can use the speed of assembly to do whatever they'd like, and all you have to do is add this:

_asm{
insert code
}

And this works for any language.

With the same analysis, 360 games will look better because they apparently have to be very wary of space, so they have to program as efficiently as possible.

Also, do you have any idea how long it takes to program in assembly? Good god, id bet only a couple functions per game max would be done in it, if that. Ya its efficient, but the trade-off is, of course, that it takes sooo long. And also, assembly varies between CPU's. So the PS3 and 360 programmers would have to learn the new routine numbers, as well as what the memory spaces are called, depending on the CPU's.

But XNA is a ploy for MS to get some good developers, they see a good game, they hire that person, and they become that much stronger. Also, i greatly enjoy that they added this, its a way for me to learn about this stuff.

[gsquad]

I see where you are coming from, but I don’t want you to get me wrong on this one.

I was only using assembly to illustrate a point.

Programmers are lazy!

If you give us the tools, where it is quicker to use the tool and try and tweak it to our specific need than to go write a better one for ourselves. We will use it, but the result won’t be as good. Again this is why Triple A development houses write their own engines.

Sure Assembly can be written in Visual Studio. But it’s hardly ever done. Why, because people would rather look for the easy way out. When you have no choice but to use assemble you become very creative with it. (ala PS2)

Same as with X360 and PS3, X360 has XNA a good tool set for programming but in the end, it’s limiting. PS3 uses C++ and OpenGL (actually something similar) and not many tool sets, so they will be forced to be a little more creative to get the same content. (time will be worth the reward)

I personal believe, as you do, that assemble takes a long time to write and there will only be a few functions written in it, if any in the next generation (both systems).

And you are can use the argument that X360 will have to overcome, or be “very wary of, space” in the next generation. (Basically saying that if PS3 has to overcome programming issues than X360 will have to overcome space issues, same thing right?)

But you know that this means you also have to admit that DVD9 isn’t the best medium for games do to space in the next generation. (That’s, if you want to use this argument.)

As for you last paragraph about XNA. I believe that we are saying the same thing, XNA is not for the elite it’s for the hobbyist and the very small programmers that want to break into the business. And Microsoft will, if any rise to the occasion, pick up the “best of the best” unheard-of-talent. Just like Valve did!

But I believe this is a one-in-a-billion shot, just like getting into the NBA. You have to be GREAT to get into this business or know someone.

Humm… now that I think about it is really is just like the NBA.

(Sorry NBA started last night kind of excited!)

“Jump In” and “Welcom3 Chang3”

[Unknown]

I just love how you guys all make sense. DJ I understand what you are saying and I guess read into it a little bit more than I should have. I just wanted to say that Devs who are on PS3 have made similar comments. Mr. TruthEnforcer I actually love the the 360 looks. In ads I must admit that it looks cheap as hell, but in person or when you see it at Circuit City it is truly a sight to behold. The way the PS3 looks az well. Its just a matter of taste but I wouldnt call the 360 a piece of 1.5 gen plastic. That's being naive. The point I wanted to make about the pricing of the PS3 is that most people precieve that it is too high. I good buy the d@mn thing myself twice and still be good but I don't think its worth it now. I will wait until SONY kicks things into high gear. Once again I would advise you to stop being naive and start living up to your "name" :)

[Geohound]

does a powerful machine make a good game? just wondering, I must of missed that. It's good to know that some of you are will to make a purchase not based on what games you'll enjoy, or a fair price, but based on your brand loyality and the so called ' power ' of these machines. Come this Christmas, don't but a 360 or a PS3. Their prices will drop.