RipTen Dojo: Why I Can't Get Behind 3D Fighting Games

In this week’s RipTen Dojo, RipTen editor Nick Goebel talks about why he just can’t get into the majority of 3D fighting games, and how he feels they may be flawed from the beginning.

[PaladinXII]

I'm always torn. There are some 3D games I can get into, but others simply seem like sidestep central.

[browland1]

Great read. I was raised in an era of 2D fighting games and I have yet to find a 3D one that gels with me.

[SimpleSlave]

"Some games, such as Virtua Fighter, are incredibly complex and require a great deal of knowledge and skill. For example, the Virtua Fighter games use only three buttons as opposed to the standard of 6 buttons by most 2D fighting games, or 4 by SNK standards: One button for guarding, one for punching, and one for kicking. Yet that doesn’t mean that Virtua Fighter is simple. In fact, it’s far from simple, and might be one of the most complex fighting games I’ve ever played. Click here to check out some of the command lists for multiple Virtua Fighter characters. They have more attacks and combos than any Street Fighter character, and it’s only done by the combination of three buttons and precise joystick movements. While this is certainly impressive in some aspects, it comes across as being overly complex to me." by NICK GOEBEL

This is the article in a nutshell. If it's too complicated then he doesn't like it. That's fine and all but, A)Complexity is not only inherent to 3D fighting games(as he admitted early in the article), B) Moves are only there for you to master, and they don't need to be learned to enjoy the game. c)ANY fighting game worth its salt is probably going to be very hard to master, regardless of how many moves a character has.

The point of having so many moves is to allowed gamers to devise very independent strategies for themselves. So no two players will play the same way, even if they choose the same character. Since when did this become a bad thing? As mentioned in the example above, Virtua Fighter has only 3 buttons, that is it. The game is the easiest game to get into for beginners and the hardest to master. Again, why is that a bad thing?

Some games are hard, some aren't. And 3D has nothing to do with the complexity of a game. Sorry, but this is either a badly research article or it should be renamed to: RipTen Dojo: Why I Can't Get Behind "incredibly complex, requiring a great deal of knowledge and skill" Fighting Games.

Cheers

[Cataract]

I absolutely agree that 3D fighting games aren't the only complex ones, but I guess it's a type of complexity that I just can't wrap my head around. I don't dislike fighting games that are hard or complex: I'm a huge fan of the Guilty Gear series, but it's type of complexity is incredibly different than the kind that is seen in 3D fighters.

While I'll admit that the idea behind having incredibly large movelists allows for characters to be played very differently, I think it still makes an incredibly high barrier for a person to actually get comfortable with the game.

The thing is, I absolutely agree with the points you made in your comment, but I think we both have very different preferences when it comes to fighting games. Personally, I like games with incredibly simple control schemes or move lists. I feel that when your choices are slightly limited, it becomes more about how creative you can be with your character and it forces players to start trying to read their opponent at an earlier stage in things.

Then again, I could be 100% wrong. I'm playing VF5:FS right now in an effort to try and get into 3D fighters more, and I'm having a hell of a time trying to "get it".

Either way, thanks for the comment! Usually I get things like "omg wut a scrub he doesnt like 3d fiters". Having someone willing to write something in response and get something of a conversation started is something I always want with RipTen Dojo.

[SimpleSlave]

"I feel that when your choices are slightly limited, it becomes more about how creative you can be with your character" Ha, change choices with money and character with games and that's my view on the game industry as a whole.
Trust me, I don't see it as a problem the fact that you favor 2d over 3d fighters. I am actually partial to 2d fighters myself. My Favorite fighting franchises are mostly 2D like The King of Fighters, SF Alpha 3, Samurai Showdown, The Last Blade, etc. but my absolute favorite fighter will always be a 3D one: Virtua Fighter

Trust me I can see were 3D haven't been doing themselves any favors when it comes to accessibility for new players. But I don't think it's because they are complicated at all or have anything to do with their move set. Most of them are very shallow or consist of pre-canned combos, which I hate. Also, they are just not flashy enough like 2d games usually are. But when they are flashy, they quickly reveal themselves to be all superficial and not enough meat in their bones. Couple that with usually lag-y or slow controls and you have a recipe for disaster. And quite frankly, a lot of them are just boooooooooring as hell and contain absolutely not one damn of creativity.

And I think that's the their main problems. They lack heart as a whole. Of course that's not to say 2d fighters are any better in that regard. How many cheap 2d fighters have been release that...*shudders* the horror. But I think that at the end, comparing both 2d and 3d, the 3d ones usually end up beign the ones that look more shallow, cheaper and don't inspire the player to sunk hours into learning what it have to offer. Mix that with the fact that they are more expensive to produce and you get the smaller quantity of them. And with fewer number, it is easier to see the crap.

You know when I was a kid I walk toward a Street Fighter cabinet and I was stunned...6 buttons. Oh MY GOD! What? Yeah, I started to press thew like a maniac, not knowing what to do. It was frustrating to say the least. But years later I got much better at understanding them and began to respect it's balance and it's philosophy.

Likewise when i walked into a Virtua Fighter cabinet I was able to pick it up quickly and have fun with it right away. It wasn't until VF 2 or 3 that I learned that it was that deep and that people even counted frames for the moves and what not. And, again, I started to appreciate the depth of its gameplay.

I think full 3d is hard to implement. But I think when it's done well, it is bliss. And I think the problem I have with the article it's the Virtua Figheter example. Yes learning each character moves it's a keen learning string theory, BUT it is the glowing example of pick up and play, easy to get in but hard to master. Plus it does not ask of you to learn all the moves in order to be good at it. And I think that's the biggest compliment a fighting game can get, 2d or 3d.

Sorry for long rant/post

Cliffs Notes

2D
-Easier to implement gameplay with only 2 axis to content
-Easier on the eyes
-Fun, fast and visually stimulating
-Cheaper to make
-To many in the genre, so it hides the crap well( once upon a time, at least)

3d
-Very hard to implement gameplay
-Most of them look bland and boring
-Slow gameplay and lag-y input
-More expensive to make
-Not enough of them to hide the crap in the genre

"Having someone willing to write something in response and get something of a conversation..." I hear you there, especially around N4G :)

[Vagrant]

Original Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat. Those were the days.