Forget 4K Blu-ray, as a die-hard PC gamer I'm hugely impressed by the PS4 Pro

Did Sony just upset the PC gaming crowd with the launch of its PS4 Pro? PC gaming fan Michael Passingham explores the first-ever '4K' gaming console.

[darthv72]

I think a 4k touted entertainment box should be able to cover all the bases for 4k enthusiasts. Coming from sony and their history of moving entertainment mediums forward... this seems like a stopping point.

I get the feeling they want to be the leader in innovation and other companies follow suit. Yet in this case they didnt want to be seen as following MS with UHD so they are trying to save face by steering consumers where they want to go instead of giving them choice like they always did.

[fenome]

They were among the first companies to even make 4k tvs, so this does seem strange that they're not trying to push it. They also might see that the market isn't quite there yet, so they're just trying to appeal to the masses in the meantime. They're doing great with the PS4 as is, there isn't really a need for this, it's just a bonus. I'm sure the PS5 will be a fully capable device.

[Aenea]

They are not trying to push 4k by releasing a console that can make good use of one??? Pardon????

[Lilrizky]

I agree,

As you pointed out Sony was one of the first companies to make 4K TV's and have had an investment in blu-rays. Therefore, Sony would have a tonne of data relating to 4K and blu-rays (and 4K Blu-ray). How many people own it, the rise or decline of the medium, the adoption rate, the usage etc. I wouldn't be afraid to bet that Sony has looked at data for 4k Blu-ray discs as opposed to 4k streaming and downloading and decided it's not even worth the investment. a large % of the user base has moved beyond this.

Exactly the same reason why the PS4 didn't support CD playback at launch and everyone was having a whinge. 40+ million users later and everyone is using Spotify etc and no one is mentioning the word audio CD anymore.

Video games are different. Video games have always been behind music, films etc. in many areas including major digital adoption. it will get there eventually, which is why I thought the original Xbox One at the reveal was forward thinking, but a little too ahead of its time. I feel the same with PS Now due to input lag etc. again, falling behind music, films and shows with streaming.

I also feel PC and Steam in particular, have been early signs of where the console space is heading.

But yeah moral of the story, I think 4k Blu-ray playback is that much of an issue

[InMyOpinion]

You'll be able to stream Netflix etc. at 4K. The movie streaming audience is larger than those who buy movies on disc. I think that explains it.

[fenome]

@inmyopinion

Exactly, and this is more cost effective to boot at the same price the regular ps4 has been with better performance and a bigger hard drive while also enabling HDR and 4k for those that can take advantage of it.

@Aenea

I wasn't saying they weren't supporting it, they just aren't trying to push it on us which is in my opion the best way to go about it. It's good for them because they don't have to sell it at a loss and it's good for consumers because it hits good price point while still allowing people with 4k setups to take advantage of the extra perks.

I'm going to get one because I've been wanting another PS4 for the house anyways. I was considering a slim before they announced this, but after the reveal I've changed my mind and I'm going with the Pro.

I don't even have a 4k set yet, but I'll have one next year, maybe this year if I find something sweet on black friday. In the meantime it'll just be cool to have a boost in performance at 1080p.

[darthv72]

You guys are missing something. Streaming is available on all smart tv already as well as consoles. 4k streaming is as well on 4k compatible units. What isnt available though is 4k uhd playback from disc.

Xb1 is the low end and sony has units on the high end and could have had something on the low to mid end with the Pro.

Sony isnt offering anything that hasnt been offered by another product but they could have offered a more "complete" product.

Im done on this subject. There are way to many apologists and blinded fans to see it was a mistake on the movie/entertainment side of the spectrum.

The gaming side is solid and i look forward to getting mine in November.

[VoodooProject]

4k streaming vs 4k Blu-ray disc. 4k Blu-ray disc far superior in quality. And I thought PS4 Pro was all about quality? So why they left out the 4k UHD Blu-ray player boggles our mind.

[SierraGuy]

"Not to push it"?... their the first to mass market. Don't hate. They're just ahead more now than ever.

[Crakface]

Its not strange. People arent buying 4k tvs, UHD players and 4k media to warrant adding costs to the pspro. The price is Perfect. Appreciate it or enjoy your inferior gaming experience on xbox and the 3 30 dollar UHD's you will buy this year.

[d0x360]

Sony has never made a 4k tv because they stopped making TVs years ago. If you see a Sony tv in a store it wasn't made by Sony it was made by another company who paid Sony to use their name.

[NewMonday]

the Scorpio UHD BR player is cheap and worthless for the full 4K experience because it doesn't support Dolby Atmos, Direct Bitstreaming or DTS:X formats. basically it's just to check a box.

[JasonKCK]

If it's so cheap why couldn't Sony add one?

[NewMonday]

because it will cost consumers an extra $50 at least and still be useless

nothing but a checkbox

[Chris12]

Newmonday spreading FUD again. Because your beloved Sony didn't include the player they are now cheap and useless. You also make up fictitious values about the additional cost. You also will know that formats like Atmos are not exclusive to 4K and that bit streaming is likely to come to Xbox via a firmware update.

What a joke.

[mike32UK]

I'm sorry I'm a PS gamer through and through, NEVER owned an XBOX. However what you are saying is hogwash! It IS disappointing that Sony hasn't included a UHD BD drive in the PS4 pro, and I am almost certain that if they did and MS didn't you would be heralding it as a positive for Sony.

[freshslicepizza]

newmonday if you stopped talking about anything related to xbox you would be fine, why the mods allow you to stay around is beyond me because you are not here to debate anything and when questioned you just run away. for $300 the xbox one s offers great value to get into a 4k player AND play games, just like the ps4 pro is an affordable system that allows games to be played up to 4k. or are you now going to say the ps4 pro is just a checkbox too for 4k gaming?

[S2Killinit]

You can buy a dedicated 4K bluray for 89 bucks, no biggie

[RegorL]

Is it really confirmed that Scorpio will have a UHD BR player?
Yes, actually it is!
https://www.vg247.com/2016/...

I would have kept the option to go without an optical media to save cost...
Do you really buy your games on disk any more?
Do you really buy Blu-Ray films any more?
Are 4k Blu-Ray films even for sale?
Will it in a year?

[mwjw696]

@NewMonday The Pony that just won't stop. Thanks for the laugh.

@S2killinit You idiot the cheapest 4k Blue ray player is the Xbox one S.

[bolimekurac]

when did you get the scorpio?

[Maxor]

Because it doesn't support Atmos it's useless? What a clueless comment. The addition of the Bluray 4K is a value add, and cement the premium status of a console that is dependent upon scaling gimmick instead of true native resolution.

This is supposed to be the top of the line console of this gen. It needs to do either 1080p 60 FPS as a baseline or bring 4K media to the masses. It does neither.

Ultimately all 4K TVs can stream 4K with built-in apps, the ability to stream 4K from the PS4 Pro is the real worthless check box.

[Sevir]

All those saying its a disappointment, please don't speak for those that really don't care. I do digital via Google Play on my phone and Chromecast, and soon Chromecast 4K. That's the trend the market is going 4k streaming, this is data that is 100% available, but it's hardly a physical movie disc drives aren't a huge selling point like they were 10 years ago, the XB360 was lauded for its lack of a Blu-ray drive,and at that time physical media was still the best way to consume because of limited bandwidth, 10 years later and you can stream 1080p and 4k media over higher bandwidth internet, because of gigabit connections...

Flack the Pro all you want but there is a CLEAR trend with consumer data to prove that there is a shift in how consumers consume media and digital is on the rise and in some cases eclipsing physical release, you get digital releases weeks sometimes even a whole month before the physical, via renting, downloading or streaming and in the case of google through their cloud based service.

Please stop speaking for me and those who really don't care, physical media of movies while relevant is becoming less and less needed.

They made the right call, they cut cost and got a GAME console into people's hands with marvelous specs while sacrificing a pointless UHD drive. It's called sensible competition.

MS has Nothing to answer with for a year. So Sony simply has to release and demonstrate why you don't need UHD drive to play and enjoy games and movies. And that's why this is going to win this holiday and next, they can drop the price by another $50 next year and be $100-$150 when Scorpio releases.

[d0x360]

Wtf are you talking about doesn't support Atmos? It's a software update to the Dolby hd spec that's it. No special hardware required.

[Gwiz]

Yeah and then complaining about those options being too expensive.
I'd say trade-in or sell your OG X1 to get the X1S and get a PS4 Pro.
This way you have options that exceed a single system for probably the same money.

[TKCMuzzer]

A 4K enthusiast would already have a 4K TV and UHD blu ray drive, thats how it works. I looked at one at laughed at the price of the discs. Enthusiast maybe, gullible I am not.
I hardly use my PS4 for blu ray discs. You may be different but i'm not a fan of using my games console to watch blu ray movies, even on PS3, I watched them on a dedicated player.
In 3 years UHD will have either succeeded or flopped, if current disc prices don't change drastically it will go no where. If it does succeed then in 3 years when it may be starting to become mainstream along with 4K tv's it will be included in everything.
It would have been nice but honestly does not bother me, a cheaper entry price is a better option, allowing those who forked out for a 4K tv to get something out of their purchase, because buying movies at those prices would be a huge turn off.
Everyone has lost focus though, no one is talking about any games coming out in the next few months and thats the real crime here.

[Death]

What if you were buying a 4K UHDTV today? Wouldn't it be nice to save a couple bucks by not having to buy a player and a Pro? The discs are $5 more and include multiple formats in the box. Streaming 4K content with HDR is much harder than people want to believe.

[Ju]

Actually, it makes the X1S attractive as a secondary machine to the PS4Pro...UHD movies and occasionally the XB exclusive titles. I will wait for the refurbished units, so. Original XB1s are not down to $200 - but that would only be half the benefit. I'm liking the $200 price much more, though.

[Aenea]

It's not an entertainment box, it's a games console...

[JasonKCK]

WTF do you think games are?

[OC_MurphysLaw]

@Aeneas 100%.... that's why Sony spent time dedicated to talking about important gaming things like YouTube apps and Netflix apps for streaming movies and TV and let's not forget about their mention of their new television streaming service VUE... yep totally just a gaming machine. /s

[G20WLY]

^Guy's what you're failing to acknowledge, as you're too busy concentrating your efforts on attacking Aenea, is that streaming services don't require additional hardware and a UHD drive would. This would increase the price and who wants that? Or they could keep the price the same and reduce the chipset effectively making it...An OG PS4. A standalone UHD player is hardly expensive, but why should everyone be forced to buy one when there's hardly any content and some might not want it anyway...remember Kinect with Xbox 1? We don't need a similar situation.

We are GAMERS, are we not? Give me upgraded games. PS4Pro has options to stream UHD content, so it's not like the lack of physical format means no UHD, is it?

I also like tea, does that mean Sony should build in a teasmade to satisfy my personal non-gaming whim? I like VR, why is not included in the price of PS4Pro - do you see how far you can push this nonsense? It is what it is guys, buy it or don't, but you should probably keep in mind that whining at this stage ain't gonna change their new console.

[starchild]

Consoles haven't been just game machines for a long time.

Since most of my gaming is done on the PC usually consoles have provided their worth to me by being both media players and game devices to play the exclusives that appeal to me that aren't on PC.

[SirBradders]

You I just think that no one buys these uhd blurays anymore. Here in the UK why do you think so many blockbusters and hmv's closed down. Purely for that reason the future is digital.

I play games on my ps4 not dvd and most people I know do the same so I'm khappy to keep that 350 price tag and use that extra 50 for a game.

[darthv72]

Id say most of those closed down because they were majority rental places with crazy fees for being late and poor selection of new releases.

In the movie industry, i have seen a split between release dates. They want to sell copies and thus make rentals at least a week later. Even digital / on demand is getting different release dates to retail.

[starchild]

Well that's you. I've used both my PS3 and PS4 as Bluray players for years. That added value really mattered to me. I thought the PS4 Pro was going to be my first UHD Bluray player and it's disappointing that won't be the case.

[NecoTehSergal]

Only problem though is the fact that statistics at NPD shows that roughly only 8% of Americans own, or have used 4K tech/TV's. This is an extremely small minority, as that 8% also doesn't disclose how many of them are gamers or are console-owners. So '4K Enthusiasts' and their wallets matter VERY VERY little.

It's only a smart thing that Sony didn't make the Pro a super expensive console, but rather something that super-samples/upscales to 4K - just as my 1080p monitor can upscale to 1440p due to software/drivers to make things look crisper than what my monitor may normally output. It's not True 4K, but if it were? It'd be too expensive, that can be saved for PS5.

NPD predicts that around 50% of American households will have 4K TV's by 2020-2022. That would be the perfect time for a PS5 w/ 4K Blu-ray player to push the media platform in sales 'AND' to acquire a console with the tech that can push those TV's with great games with good visuals. RIGHT NOW? 4K is being advertised way too fucking early. No matter how many PC Extremists or 'Enthusiasts' try to say otherwise? Not enough own 4K for it to even be relative except to the deluded who try to say otherwise. 1080p is still the norm and 1440p will be the norm to most before the transition to 4K.

[MagicBeanz]

I think a lot of things have to be considered by Sony that you yourself are not considering. They have to look at the install rate of 4k tv's currently in homes, as well as the cost to make the system and market it. They could have thrown everything in there including the kitchen sink but then would have had to make a price point so high that people would have complained about that instead. I think when Scorpio hits that's exactly what we will see. If Pro is $400 and Scorpio is so much more power then I believe the price point on it will be very high and could end up hurting sales in the long run..

[darthv72]

Install rate did not stop them from pushing bluray.

Install rate never stopped them before so why now?

[Ju]

Yes, but BD was also needed because games required 50GB to be stored on. DVD was too small and a mid generation update would have been a nightmare. MS had to start rolling out multiple disk versions.

BD was steep in the beginning. And while one could argue, real next gen games could exceed the 50GB BD limit, this would break compatibility with 40M installed PS4s. Not what you'd want to do.

So, yes, while it would been a great marketing stunt to put a 4K UHD drive in, it would be of little use if the drive itself is used 90% of the time to read games from - which will have zero benefit from the bigger capacity. BD however was required to go beyond 9+GB - for games.

[ZeroX9876]

Never played a bluray in my PS4 since I got it and I bought it at launch date. I watched many movies through streaming services and the quality is more than enough for me.

[boing1]

I'll be buying Pro first day but lack of UHD drive is perplexing.

[miyamoto]

As a gamer a 4K gameplay display is paramount: PS4 PRO for you
As a videophile 4K video playback is paramount :Xbox One S for you

Games first. Anything else is secondary.

[starchild]

You guys are just making excuses. No matter what Sony does it's always perfect and the best and everything else sucks. We get that.

But out here in the real world people can like the PS4 and still have constructive criticisms. It's also possible to like Sony's consoles and still find value in other platforms. Moreover, a person can be a gamer and, gasp, also a home theater enthusiast. This either-or attitude some of you have is frankly absurd.

[King_Lothric]

Your comment is totally uninformed. If you watched the keynote, which based on your comment I know you didn't, you would know that Sony said they made a study on their user base and find out that the main use case on PS4 gamers is streaming and not physical media.

That's the reason they are targeting their main use case. You should at least get informed in a subject before dropping comments that are not based on real information.

[darthv72]

They can say it any way they like and people like yourself will believe it without proof.

It wasnt like theye were on the witness stand and facing potential perjury. My point is perfectly stated. Sony is an entertainmet company with 4k content and 4k consumer devices. To have this sudden change of heart is more a sign of them not wanting to give consumers choice like they have been for so long.

MS beat them to the punch in this one department that happens to be their specialty. And rather than look like they are following when they generally lead... they deflect and say this is where people are going.

When MS touted streaming it was Sony saying quality was better with physical. And now they change their tune when they know damn well that quality in physical will still be better. Its just really interesting now all of a sudden.

Doing this is something id expect from MS and they'd get flak for it but Sony gets a pass cause they say so. And people believe em.

[starchild]

So they should just scrap their 4k UHD TVs and UHD Bluray players then, right? I mean, if that's not the way the market is going and nobody cares about it why bother?

Get real. There is still a sizable group of people that care about quality and want the highest fidelity media they can get. What's wrong with giving people like us that option and adding value to their console just as they have done in the past?

[sampson3121]

they are smart in that they made an affordable 4k capable console that is twice the power of the OG ps4, for only $399. instead of the community complaining about what it doesn't have, they should be happy they're getting the kind of deal sony is giving.

plus part of the reason the ps4 was so well accepted is that sony geared the console more rowards gaming. nothing new here. MS is making a new console next year, sony just did a mid cycle upgrade, and it's a good one at that.

myself, i don't care for the pro as of yet. maybe late next yr I'll buy it.

[DeadlyFire]

Sony did this on purpose. They sell 4k tvs. They know the market is not saturated. Perhaps they felt that the next PlayStation should be the 4k device. Perhaps PS5 comes in 2018 or 2019.

[Crakface]

Id rather wait for ps5 and get a true 4k native UHD player then that upscaled garbage thats in Xbox1

[DragonPaw]

This is my take. Let's not forget how enmeshed Sony is with physical media. It was Sony that made the BR relevant over the competing HD DVD. Sony did that. BUT NOW, they are sticking to their guns just like they have consistently this gen. Just like how they waited to let us use the PS4 as a media player. They are pioneers in physical media as well as a brand for quality display devices.

They will release firmware upgrades, similar to how they plan to accomplish HDR, but only after waiting because PS4's battle cry is GAMING FIRST! Wait and see. Sony isn't Microsoft. Sony is a hardware/high budget entertainment company who has found a strong foothold in gaming. They don't want their company to fail, and they are smart enough to use their advantages over their software oriented competition.

They were making a point in not letting us have the features of the PS3, and now they will make it again. It is their strategy to make rub MS's face in the fact that they are not putting gaming first.

[babyhand]

I agree I should have had it But it does not for price reasoning I would think. It came out at the same price as the PS4 and that sold well, so I would imagine it played a big part in sony believing they should keep the price the same. They're is always someone that thinks things should have been done different. Either you buy as is our you don't, it's a choice.

[MasterCornholio]

It should have it in my opinion.

With that said it isn't game breaking and the PS4 Pro is worth it if you want a great gaming system.

[DeadlyOreo]

Yep. Funnily enough I bought a gaming console to game. Am I weird?

[MasterCornholio]

I'm just happy that the main complaint is the lack of a UHD drive instead of its ability to play great games.

[Onenyte]

It's ok dude , I will be weird with you :)

[Strikepackage Bravo]

Right but PS4 already does that. So you would have to be an idiot to buy the pro for $400 when it does the same thing the ps4 slim does, and literally nothing else...

[vallencer]

You're not weird but just like my phone I want and expect my console to do more than just game. I bet you don't just game on your ps4. I'm sure you watch movies and stream things. So why would they not add the player in it? The weirdest part is 10 years ago they made blu ray popular. They could help make UHD popular and they aren't even going to try. I don't get why everyone says it would cost them more money to put it in. If microsoft can do it and still sell their console at 300 then sony can as well. They just are actively choosing not to.

[Phill-Spencer]

Me too!

[King_Lothric]

What? Are you crazy? Who tell you that you should use your gaming console mainly for games?

/s

[leoms]

I am totally wierd your not alone.

[starchild]

I bought a console to play games AND act as a movie player among other things. Am I weird? Is it weird in 2016 to prefer devices to do more than one thing?

Are you really going to sit there and act like WE'RE the weird ones for wanting a console to do more than just play games? If so, you can take that attitude and shove it. I guess you'd tell people they're wrong for wanting their phones to do more than just make phone calls. I know, crazy right?

[CannonB8]

Lil'bit

[ninsigma]

If it meant keeping the price down I'm glad it was left out myself. Barely anyone actually owns 4k blu rays. Not saying it's not disappointing for those that do but most of the people complaining are xbox fan boys because it's something they have that ps doesn't. Remember how it also had hdr and ps didn't?? It was such a huge thing apparently but now that hdr is an update to all existing PS4s it's all "well you need a 4k tv to use it and most people won't be able to use that feature". Oh really?? Cuz last I checked you also need a 4k TV for uhd blu ray. Once again xbox fanatics forgetting we're talking about games consoles.

Sorry rant over! Not actually aimed at you xD

[MasterCornholio]

399$ is a great price for the system but if the inclusion of UHD is doable at the same price it should have it.

But like I said before it's ability to play great games is more important than its ability to play 4K movies. Lately some people care more about TV TV TV than Games Games Games. No idea why though because in a community of gamers gaming should be the number 1 priority.

[Strikepackage Bravo]

The difference is, most Xbox fans will admit Xbox one slim is not worth upgrading to if u have an Xbox already and don't have a 4k tv . In contrast ps fans are claiming ps4 pro, (which is the equivalent to a an xbos due to its lack of enhancements over the original ps4) is a day one purchase and all plan to drop another 4 bills on this dud as soon as they can and curse anyone who doesn't agree.

[joeorc]

Exactly @ ninsigma
Unlike the Xbox platforms , Sony really does have a Full Live cable TV cord cutting replacement Service for the consumer..UHD vs that adoption rate increasing may be more important to Sony at this point.

UHD Movie playback is nice, with higher bitrate, but again that's going to be a Question of which is more important to the consumer right now.

Sony is offering an actual Live Streaming Cable TV service without needing actual cable service , not locked into a contract..has DVR functionality and many important shows many gamers do not want to miss or football games are being streamed live across this service..

And it's really that importance functionality vs offering UHD playback that Sony really may of had to choose from to invest into right now that Microsoft did not have to choose ..because unlike Sony Microsoft does not offer such a service itself to its Xbox consumers..I mean there is Sling but again vs PlayStation VUE no contest, and Sling TV is not an internal project for Microsoft unlike PlayStation Vue is for Sony's company.

[ninsigma]

@bravo
Don't give me that bs. Lack of enhancements my ass. Pro is more than double the power of standard ps4, never mind xb1s, and you wanna call them equivalent?? You're exactly the thing I'm talking about. Non stop downplaying with so much bs.

[OB1Biker]

Ive never seen so much talk about watching movies from discs on 'gaming' sites. Personally I havent never watched a disc movie from any console and I dont buy any anyway but maybe thats just me.
Also I dont get how people could think 3 times as powerful as xb1 s means nothing (whether you have a 4k tv or not) but for project Scorpio announcing 4 times more powerful than xb1 s means everything?
Am I living in wonderland or some people are incredibly misinformed like SBravo?
Seems to me theres a double standard in the media as if power doesnt count for the Pro but it literally 'turns the tables' for Scorpio

[fathertime4464]

Call me crazy but I would've been more likely to get one if it had a 4k blue ray as I have 4k tv. My choice for a concil that upscales to 4k has been made for me. Only have 400 for one or the other and I also want a4k blue ray. Sorry but I prefer hard copies of my movies and I'm not going to wait and save for a uhd blue ray player. Also what's with sticking with the jaguar processer?

[Ju]

Putting that price into perspective...that freaking Roku 4 - which can stream 4K movies - costs $200! Sure, having UHD would have been nice (not sure, why actually - not planning on getting any disk other then to get this "I want to see it once" effect - I am not sure. I would probably never use it to watch movies). Price is way more important than UHD. It packs so much more punch in that box (let alone BD + 1TB drive which the Roku doesn't have) that I don't really care. It is what I wanted.

[RegorL]

@Strikepackage Bravo "The difference is, most Xbox fans will admit Xbox one slim is not worth upgrading to if u have an Xbox already and don't have a 4k tv . In contrast ps fans are claiming ps4 pro, (which is the equivalent to a an xbos due to its lack of enhancements over the original ps4) is a day one purchase and all plan to drop another 4 bills on this dud as soon as they can and curse anyone who doesn't agree."

Careful... your are painting yourself into a corner...

What does Scorpio give you that XBox One S does not already provide, apart from power...?

[Sniperwithacause]

Agree 100%.
Besides those who own 4k blurays probably already have something that can play them.

[ninsigma]

I agree that if it didn't cost extra then it should have been put in but considering that they didn't I would assume that it would have cost more.

[uth11]

I think it's clear they didn't want to exceed the $399 price point.

[joeorc]

@ninsigma1h ago
[I agree that if it didn't cost extra then it should have been put in but considering that they didn't I would assume that it would have cost more]

Well to answer that , the optical BD drive of a XL and a UHD BD optical drive is really the same Drive , they both can read the same number of layers ..well usually.. Except for some way early BD drives..Lol but , the main cost is the licence's required and the decoding of such data playback licences that have to be paid out.

With all of the licence's needed you can reach like an extra $15 to $28.00 added cost per drive..even to Someone like Sony...problem is that starts eating into the return of the profits you would make on the licence's you have in the medium..because for every sold you are having to cover costs upfront, and have to wait on other companies paying the licence's for a UHD optical drive..

And than the most important revenue needed is the return on UHD disc sales to cover your expenses that you invested into..in hopes you recover those costs.

[Aenea]

@joe

I wouldn't really be surprised when sales of the Slim and Pro go really well that they release a firmware upgrade to add support for UHD discs on the Pro, maybe even Slim and heck, maybe even all PS4s...

Also depends how much of a backlash they will get for not including it currently and/or how well UHD Blurays are going to sell.

What is really telling tho is that Sony currently doesn't even have a 4k HDR Bluray player! (correct me if I'm wrong here) Which suggests to me that the whole of Sony is not that convinced UHD Bluray will take off...

[WickedLester]

That's PART of it but another factor is that Sony wants to push their digital streaming services. Kind of ironic considering the PS3 was the first gaming console to include blu ray, while MS was still using DVD. All the while MS was touting digital distribution as the "future" and that Blu Ray wasn't practical.

[SweatyFlorida]

I mean, we could also argue they should have made it 5.5 tf for the same price, but the same thing applies, it cost Sony more money. They are not going to include something and take a loss, nor would they ever price it at "$415", companies just don't do that, and I would rather not be charged an extra $50 for something I (a.) either will never use, or (b.) would ever hardly use. They are in a dominate position, they have no need to eat a loss on Pro, and I'm sure they've done their research on just how little important the 4k drive was. We are certainly heading toward a digital future, at least with Sony.

Wanting more is fine but expecting it for free is not how businesses work. And the system is jam packed full of features with reasonable power to make it worth its price. Maybe, they can make an add-on drive specifically for pro (plugged via usb), for some $20-50 for the people that actually want 4k blu drive. That way, people who don't care for it don't need to spend money, and people that want it,well, here you go!

[MasterCornholio]

Absolutely correct. If Sony upgraded the specs and added UHD support the system would have a higher launch price.

If there's one thing that people are not complaining about its the price.

I agree that more is better but having more costs more.

[joeorc]

@MasterCornholio1h ago
[It should have it in my opinion.

With that said it isn't game breaking and the PS4 Pro is worth it if you want a great gaming system]

I think , while BD-UHD playback for movies is pretty neat, I think just like last time, Sony wanted to change one thing when looking at the benefits of the optical drives cost vs the optical drives need..what is needed. Example:

In order for Blu-Ray to have success, with all of Sony had invested from 1997 upto than in 2006 when it first launched, Sony had no choice to heavy invest into all features in order for the format to make it.

Think about it, this time unlike last time Blu-Ray is the standard for optical drive data storage for HD optical disc's for Movies, Data back-up even many PC's offer the option for a Blu-ray optical drive for your laptop, desktop or gaming Rig.

Bit here is the caveat, today the format is successful, it's now for HD data storage and backup by inlarge is just for storage only and Movies..it did not replace the standard DVD for game distribution outside of game consoles..

And that is very telling, the format is more than just movie playback or just data storage, it's Adoption must show a further adoption by content creation media to be used for more than just that..without most games on PC being distribution on Blu-ray discs like the past decade with DVD..Most games for PC are pretty much through Steam!

To a format optical drive company who makes optical disc's, Sony may infact see that more Media partners may have decided to not heavy invest into BD-UHD until the consumer decision makes it viable to do so..after the hit to DVD distribution for software on PC , for game distribution dwindled, that means pretty much only thing left was for blank medium data storage and just movies.

Think about that, they can charge the same money for a game or software program on steam without a physical disc..that means less purchase for Software distribution needed for a game or application on a disc based distribution method needed at the time.. Now Sony's Data about such may infact show that until BD-UHD shows adoption further than it has now...they may not want that added expense if majority of Consumers do not updated to it..or feel the need for it.

To many that BD price point per disc back in 2005 was $27.00 per movie..many consumers may feel they do not need that added expense when standard Blu-Ray ray is enough since most look at its price point as where DVD was for movies.

The ability of the BD optical drives physical layer functionality for data reading for software is more important for Sony in this point because all games are for physical distribution are on BDx33,BDx66 etc.

By not paying the licence's for the movie playback just for the UHD standard Sony may feel the trade off was worth it because the drive still reads Data layers of an advanced BD optical drive, but with just BD movie playback licence instead of UHD added costs the cost of UHD Movie playback is not really the point it's the cost of each movie and the adoption rate of consumers feeling it's worth the cost..Sony during the PS3 cycle went though this very same thing...

[TKCMuzzer]

Here we go again, listen to yourselves. This article makes very good points yet all the comments on here continue to focus on the negative. How do you all get by in life. I'm also wondering how many of you would actually buy UHD Blu ray discs at their price, gamers already moan about the price of games but $35 for a UHD blu ray is ok?
I guarantee this, if Sony had included a UHD and added $100 dollars to the cost, N4G would have been full of 'Sony isolating it's core base' or 'Sony ripping of its customers again' and so on. The sad thing is, we all know this it what would of happened.
Simple, don't want one don't buy one, want a UHD Blu ray drive, go and buy one and watch it gather dust whilst you wait for disc prices to come down.
If your a gamer, with or without a 4K TV embrace gaming, the tech being pushed forward and more importantly all the games you can play for $399 or $349. The most important thing is you can play all current PS4 and future PS4 games on both consoles, just enjoy it guys, because there are far to many people hanging around sites like this moaning and not gaming.

[ninsigma]

http://giphy.com/gifs/clapp...

Well said!

[Gwiz]

http://giphy.com/gifs/appla...

[DragonDDark]

Problem with the site.. Fanboys from both sides. It has gotten worse after the new website update.

People making hundreds of accounts to upvotes themselves. Sites approving their own stories by making accounts here.

People make lists of people that disagree with them MULTIPLE Times with the SAME account and they're still not banned.

Rookie and magiciandude are popular examples

That S2 dude was copying and pasting the same comment multiple times in just 24 hours just so he can "prove a point" or "to stop xbox Fanboys from spreading misinformation"

It doesn't stop there too. Flame bait articles are being approved now more often than Actual news and good opinion pieces.

I may stop coming here or maybe just ignore the comments from now on idk but the comment section is literally cancer now.

[ninsigma]

Comments here have gotten well out of hand.

[IRetrouk]

No worse now than it ever was, the worst being the start of the ps3/360 gen

[WeAreLegion]

Serious question. Why are we seeing less articles on the new site? This place used to get so much news that I couldn't keep up with it. What happened?

[Tibbers]

"I guarantee this, if Sony had included a UHD and added $100 dollars to the cost, N4G would have been full of 'Sony isolating it's core base' or 'Sony ripping of its customers again' and so on. The sad thing is, we all know this it what would of happened. "

Dude, you're talking about N4G. Only neogaf has more Sony fanboys.

[Red_Renegade]

is that why there's so much hate for sony going on around here? cuz the place is full of sony fanboys?

[WeAreLegion]

Not anymore. It's pretty even at this point.

[Crakface]

N4g wants microsoft to win so bad. Its pathetically obvious. Hes right.

[PizzaSteve]

Yep agree. Even if PS4 had UHD I wouldn't be buying any movie at $35. I don't even like paying $12 a movie at theater. I don't believe that many people will be take advantage of UHD on XB1S. If UHD really mattered that much, why wasn't it important then before the 4K consoles upgrade. No matter what Sony would've done to the Pro, that same negative Sony hating crowd would've found something to complain about and make it seem like a big deal.

[stalepie]

Why would it cost $100 more? The Xbox One S is $100 less and has one.

[DigitalRaptor]

Sony is past the point of losing money per unit sold on their core consoles.

Microsoft clearly sees it as a strategic benefit to lose money per unit in the hopes that it will sell more in the long run, but they will still sell less than PS4 slim and PS4 Pro in the long run.

[eferreira]

Very well said.

[Shakengandulf]

Just a made up price here.. so scorpio releases at $800 .. people still as interested?
I'm perfectly fine with the pro launching without 4k.. 1080p on a decent tv is perfectly fine.

[MasterCornholio]

Some games will be 4k but others will be upscaled from a higher resolution than 1080P.

What I'm saying is that this system is better for 4K televisions than the other systems that are on the market right now.

Mind you I'm just talking about gaming.

[Ju]

But even at 1080p it is the better System. By far, actually. And in that respect, the UHD in the 1S is pretty much useless. For that price it is a perfect console even for 1080p owners. With rock solid 1080p @ 60 fps and more graphical bells and whistles. It will simply outperform the PS4 which already produces great results - with existing games, even. And you get this for a mere $50 upgrade to the 1S (1TB Version).

[x_xavier_x]

A 4k Blu-ray drive should have been included in the PS4 Pro and Slim so that we can ALL enjoy the benefits of our film libraries despite the differences in media format.

#Blu-rayDrivesMatter

[ninsigma]

If all ready have said library then you already have a drive to play it on.

[joeorc]

@x_xavier_x55m ago
[A 4k Blu-ray drive should have been included in the PS4 Pro and Slim so that we can ALL enjoy the benefits of our film libraries despite the differences in media format.

#Blu-rayDrivesMatter]

What you are pointing out is exactly the Question your company would have to answer to itself and its board of directors.. Think of it this way..back in 2005 Sony was selling BD optical drives as the increased evolution of optical drives for HD..many mistakenly thought Blu-Ray was being made to replace DVD immediately they are sadly wrong..why? It's very simple In optical drive manufacturing the Standards for optical drive are based on the process of evolution over entire replacement in short order... Because the Media is designed to stay in the market longer than the actual optical drive..why? Again simple..

Non volatile Data coherency.
Unlike magnetic or tape distribution, so many things can effect your Data coherency to remain stable over time..optical disc's are less subject to those problems ..magnets near a tape drive ..forget about it...lol, or Magnetic solid state Memory leaks..yes discs are subject to fire and scratches..but Blu-Ray as scratch resistant coatings are pretty scratch resistant to prevent such.

So , as I was saying the optical disc's are designed to outlast your drive, because your drives moving parts will wear out faster in most cases than Somthing happening to your disc.

The current PS4 BD optical drive read DVD and BD for CalData coherency for its discs..why include DVD read red diodes in the optical laser if it was designed to for your company to replace DVD in short order?

Blu-Ray UHD is just another evolution of the existing BD format one of Which can be added later at a much cheaper cost when it's cheaper and higher adoption rate is there in the market..standard BD HD medium is already there.
Sony is a optical drive Manufacturing company , they make the Disc's for optical drives!

The price point of each UHD disc is like it was when Sony first launched BD back in 2003 in asia as with BD optical disc's in cart protection housing before TDK's protection coating was added to the BD disc standard.

Sony's first BD recorder on CEATEC in 2002. As the ... The Blu-ray Disc Rewritable (BD-RE)

https://www.google.com/url?... http://www.doe.carleton.ca/...

Apr 10th 2003 Sony released that BD-RE recorder to the market in Asia.as you can see well before the PlayStation 3

The point many are I think missing here is Sony did not just Willy nilly made this decision lightly..it was made for several reasons most of which I doubt was based on what the competition was doing. It was based on its own internal Decisions and being an actual optical drive manufacturing company..One of which Microsoft is not.

@x_xavier_x19m ago
[tl;dr
#Blu-rayDrivesMatter]

While fine and dandy if you do not want to learn something, no problem..just your opinion.

[x_xavier_x]

tl;dr

#Blu-rayDrivesMatter

[Destiny1080]

apparently every xboxfanboy has a massive 4k collection of movies, but last gen Blu-ray was useless HHmmm

[ninsigma]

Yeah and at least last gen, blu ray actually made a difference to gaming. Uhd blu ray will change nothing for gaming. Just shows how the xbox fan boys don't actually care about games.

[Imalwaysright]

It didn't make any difference at all for gaming. All it did was to drive the price of the PS3 up for those that only wanted it for gaming. All it meant was that you had a console that cost €200 than a 360 being outperformed left, right and center for 3 years until 3rd party devs started to get the hang of the cell and the separate pools of memory and when they did get the hang of the PS3 architecture, PS3 and 360 versions of games were even stevens.

Also why does someone wanting a UHD drive means that person doesn't care about games? Are people only allowed to have one hobby? Can't someone enjoy both games and movies?

[DigitalRaptor]

@ Imalwaysright

It did allow devs to put more onto the disc, including bonus games and content.

It kept single-disc games, where on other consoles it was spread over multiple discs.

It enabled better-sounding uncompressed audio in games.

It became a standard for console game media.

UHD will do nothing for games. He's talking about the fanboys who are using it to troll on PS4, as if it affects what is valued more than anything else in a gaming console. Those people are not being rational about their complaints because there is an agenda behind them.
----------------

"Did you notice that you said absolutely nothing about how blu ray drive improved gaming or why was it absolutely needed?"

Ummm..... yes I did, you just refused to believe it was improvement. In fact, only now are you bringing up the "why it was absolutely needed" nonsense. I provided the key enhancements. You made excuses.

The next Sony and Microsoft consoles will use UHD Blu-ray discs for increased storage. Nintendo always uses proprietary storage, so I don't often consider them when talking industry standard. They pretty much never adhere to the industry standard.

And the Xbox One S has an Ultra HD Blu-ray drive which is a Blu-ray drive. 🙄

Enhanced audio output makes for a better gaming experience if you value good audio. Not having multiple discs meant that you either didn't have to interrupt a gaming session at all or you didn't have to bloat your hard drive with multiple disc content if you chose to install it.

[ninsigma]

@always
First paragraph: what raptor said. There were loads of benefits to having blu ray and look what happened, it became the standard. Xbox followed suit this time around. you're right, it did bring the price of the console up, just like adding in a UHD drive in the pro would bring the price of THAT up but the difference is, as already mentioned, blu ray brought benefits to our gaming experience but because the pro won't be taken full advantage of (as well as not being capable for native 4k for the vast majority of games) so a UHD disc would literally be pointless because the content won't be supplied to it in UHD format.

Second paragraph: Please point to me where I said any of that?? I'm talking purely about fanboys and their agendas. I even said above in another comment that I know it's disappointing for some but here I'm talking about those xbox fans that are toxic enough in their comments to downplay anything and everything that is not Microsoft. We all know the ones that have no interest in playstation and have spent years trolling all PS comment sections so why should we take what they say seriously now?? There is no logic coming from them, only lies and nonsense. Tell me how we can be talking about a games console and the downplaying narrative is not about games and gaming features/experiences but about a non-essential (to gaming) disc drive?? I guess because Playstation has no problems in the games department as well as having the strongest console on the market out in a couple months means there's nothing else to complain about.

[Imalwaysright]

"It did allow devs to put more onto the disc, including bonus content. "

Including? Only bonus content unless sony had exclusivity deals and if needed it could be used more than one dvd for bonus content.

""it enabled single-disc games, where on other consoles it was spread over multiple discs."

How does that make gaming better?

"It enabled better-sounding uncompressed audio in games."

How does that make gaming better?

"It became a standard for console game media. "

Not true. Wii U doesn't have a blu ray drive and the NX is rumoured to have cartdriges. The X1 S also doesn't have a blu ray drive.

Did you notice that you said absolutely nothing about how blu ray drive improved gaming or why was it absolutely needed?

[joeorc]

@Imalwaysright3h ago(Edited 3h ago)
[It didn't make any difference at all for gaming. All it did was to drive the price of the PS3 up for those that only wanted it for gaming.]

See this myth..just like myth busters I am going to crush this..no offense to you..and because you may not know any better due to lack of experience with the subject but here it is and how Blu-Ray really did matter.

More ways than one

First of all games before released on physical optical drive media was distribution only DVD that means it was 4 GB per disc or it was with Dual layer DVD9's.. Cost to production was not just an account to auther your work on DVD it's time required for Somthing like a DVD9 to cure with its two layer discs..

Ever see S DVD9 break apart?..in two layers? LOL.
Storage is 9Gb..

Blu-Ray optical disc's was single side single layer 25 GB per disc layer! High Bitrate. And as cheap to cure and produce as you would a single side single layer CD or DVD 4.

Are you starting to get the picture now?
People were mainly only looking at the BD50 price point last generation cycle which is a dual layer disc..that's not or has ever been the main point for Blu-Ray.. It's cost per GB and bitrate was a complete upgrade to DVD even HDDVD was still not as cost effective as Blu-Ray. Since it was in the case of HDDVD 15GB per layer

[Imalwaysright]

@ Joerc

What myth did you crush? How does Blu ray having more storage made gaming better last gen? 360 and PS3 versions of games were pretty much IDENTICAL after devs getting the hang of the PS3 architecture. Some a bit better on the PS3 and some a bit better on the 360 but all in all pretty much identical. There were NO clear advantages from a gaming point of view whatsoever from having a blu ray drive last gen.

@ Ninsigma

So some can say that is disappoiting but others can't because you perceive them as being xbox fanboys despite those 2 groups agreeing with each other? Interesting but I too don't care if the PS4 has an UHD blu ray drive but I can also see why some find disappointing. All I ask from the Pro is the option for all PS4 exclusives to be 60 FPS however I will say that I don't take seriously what Sony fanboys say about Sony's consoles either. All they do is defend Sony everytime no matter if the decisions that Sony makes benefits them as gamers or not. It's as if they want the PS4 to be worst than it can be and I find that annoying.

[DigitalRaptor]

Sony is a key member of the UHD Alliance and has all the data about the sales tends of disc media that it needs. UHD disc media is clearly a non-starter. Where is the media?

Even DVD sales have catapulted above Blu-ray discs in the past few years.

[MagicBeanz]

LOL! Damn, shots fired.

[--bienio--]

Endless updates, short life cycles, having to pay yearly just to play online, lack of any backwards compatibility, smaller and smaller good exclusives list.... I grew up on consoles... but the golden age of consoles are long gone. PC's are so easy to build and maintain these days. It's really the only rational conclusion Plus forget true 4k on Ps4 pro.
Ps4 is Cancer for gaming industry.

[respekanize91]

W O W Im actually speechless......

[Artemidorus]

Most of the content will be upscaled, are people that thick they still think they are getting genuine 4K?

[ninsigma]

Everyone gets that so why are you complaining?? People know what they're getting and still want it. Besides there ARE a few games that will be native.

[Artemidorus]

Read some more comments and you will see.

[Destiny1080]

its not a simple upscale where you take an image an stretch it

the ps4-pro can essentially upscale from a 3k image, add AA/HDR and its virtually indistinguishable from a native 4k image

[Dark_Knightmare2]

Thank you digital foundry said the same thing and called the upscaler innovative. It's just fanboys being fanboys acting like they would be able to tell native 4k from the 4k the pro delivers

[Artemidorus]

But it's not 4K

[Ju]

^^ Bu...bu...but,.... /s ya, we get it

[Aenea]

If people believe that consoles released before 2019/2020 can actually achieve native 4k for all games they are, ehmm, that thick, yes.

[Dark_Knightmare2]

Nobody thinks that but digital foundry as called the upscaling technique in the pro innovative and it gets about as close to native 4k as you can get. Hell they've said that if you showed a game running in 4k on pro and a native 4k image you would barely tell the difference. Oh and it can do native 4k because the last of us and elder scrolls online both are running in native 4k

[Artemidorus]

Still holding on to that denial, better hold on to them two old games.

[DigitalRaptor]

Sony's innovative hardware-based checkerboard rendering is no basic upscaling.

It makes an upscaled 4K almost indistinguishable from native 4K - it's time for you to read up on that.

There will be native 4K experiences too.

[ziggurcat]

"... are people that thick they still think they are getting genuine 4K?"

TLoU remaster will be patched to run at a native 4K resolution, so...

[Artemidorus]

Now name some more games to support that point.

That's right you can't because it's not a true 4K machine.

Still hope for me ripping off consumers by creating a fanbase yet.

Might make a game and charge 400, 60 for the game (because i'm fair like that) then 340 for extras.

[ziggurcat]

"Now name some more games to support that point."

Skyrim.

If it can output anything at a native 4K, then it's a 4K machine. Expecting everything to be native 4K is unrealistic - not even Scorpio will output everything at a native 4K.

[Roronoa0411]

its being upscaled from 1800p which is almost 4k... there will be a massive difference than being upscaled from 900p on the xbox1s… besides if digital foundry is impressed by it, so will most other people when they see it in person.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

I don't think it's not impressive. It's a very capable machine and when looking at it in a vacuum it's very impressive at $400. But...we know the competition is coming out with new consoles too in the coming 12 months (NX & Scorpio)...so wait and see vs rush out to buy is the smart course if you are budget limited.

[Matology]

A lot of people can't afford a 4K TV at this point and/or don't want to upgrade. They probably feel that their Full HD TV is more than enough for them at this time being.

There is nothing stopping Sony revising the console down the line or bringing out a portable UHD drive for use with the Pro, when 4K TVs come down in price. Personally I would have put a UHD in the Pro or at least try selling a model with it in.

Pro 4 gaming, Pro 4 viewing your choice the slogan could have been.

[JusticeOfThePeace]

Have mine Preordered, I'm really excited by the Pro and hats off for what Sony has achieved especially at €399.

[gamer1138]

That faux K

[optimus]

People are forgetting the overall point of the ps4 pro is to sell the psVR. which that alone is just over $500 (bundle)...I think that's why they really left the the 4k drive out. Also the fact that sony is planning to release a standalone 4k blu-ray player in the coming months would be counter productive for their hardware division if the player ends up costing more or less than the ps4Pro...

From a marketing standpoint I would have scrapped the standalone 4k player and made the ps4 pro the staple as a game machine and home media hub by including the 4k player. The fact that 4k streaming is not yet standard and that any type of 4k streaming comes at a cost at either a higher subscription tier or from your isp in the end....4k streaming would become the norm from providers that offer 1gb speeds which is only available in small pockets around the country (u.s.)...

I do think that 4k tv prices will come down even further as we approach the holidays (especially on black friday)....the lack of 4k streaming content will persuade people to pick up an xb1-S for $300 as opposed to a ps4slim for the same price and not having a 4k drive. I do think this is how it will play out

[Babadook7]

Agreed. That $399 price tag.

[Stapleface]

It's a great console for the price. Hearing devs talk after the PS Meeting is what sold me on it. Playstations presentation was ok other than the one guy could put you to sleep the way he talks..but the devs talking about how they will use it got a pre order out of me. Plus I would like to take more advantage of my 4k tv.

[Ju]

Same here. Got me a 4k screen (cheap, though) and preordered the Pro yesterday - which I have never done before. I call this shock reaction because the competition probably didn't really expect Sony to pull this off. And it really wasn't so much the presentation but the reaction of people who had actually access to the games - most of them the very first time on those high end large 4k screen; even devs - which left an impression, IMO.

[Inzo]

Its panic stations for xbox fanboys, everyone from analysts to even PC gamers are singing the PS4 Pro's praises exept xbox fanboys who are so deep in denial that if it wasnt so funny it would actually be quite sad. And it can all backed up by a fantastic lineup of games.

[DigitalRaptor]

Panic stations indeed.

They can go back to their safe space Scorpio all they want and pretend more power is going to bring Xbox back into the limelight, but Sony's hardware-based checkerboard rendering that upscales higher-resolutions to a 4k output which looks almost indistinguishable from native, is going to cause problems for them. They're also so invested in this 6TF number so early when it doesn't even paint the entire picture.

PS4 & Pro are both better consoles than any iteration of an Xbox One, and have the bigger and more diverse lineup and more impactful lineup of exclusive games both now and by 2017. They've made all the right choices with the Pro as a mid-gen refresh to the PS4's lifecycle and it's going to serve them and gamers well all the way through to when the PS5 is announced.

[thisgamer503]

PC gamers singing the praises? Because of the 1 article where clearly not a very "die hard" PC player talks praise of the PS4 Pro? Hmmmm, Ok. I'm not bashing the Pro at all, but to be so naive that you think PC gamers are singing the PS4 praises is just brainless. Lol, I have a buddy who loves Sony consoles, but has been thinking about picking up a XB1 S. He must be singing xbox praises.

[JoeDG]

Common... pc gamer are laughing about the cpu. The jaguar cpu will be the big bottleneck for the Pro.

[joeorc]

@JoeDG2h ago
[Common... pc gamer are laughing about the cpu. The jaguar cpu will be the big bottleneck for the Pro]

This is like many who just are missing the big picture..the PC will always trumps any games console on a hardware level in Raw power ..that's just the way it has and always will be..

But for the price point and what the 1st party and development studio's and publishing partners do with such hardware is what matter with unique game experience's only found on said platform..

PC has its very own unique Gaming experience's..so it's not like only just games console have such unique software.

Even PC has its very own bottlenecks that it has to deal with..

[Yetter]

There was already a CPU GPU bottleneck with the PS4 and its just getting worse with the Pro. This just seems like such a half step. Just upgrading the GPU and not touching any of the other components in the console isn't going to make a huge difference.

If you don't own a PS4, then buying a pro makes sense. Otherwise, I don't really get it

[starchild]

It's going to especially affect the console's ability to hit a solid 60fps. The Jaguar CPU in the PS4 tends to limit framerate more than anything.

[ironmonkey]

Bottleneck? Na man its called optimization.

[Germany7]

He basically said the pc wins again.

[Kunra]

I have a 4k TV and the current vanilla ps4 from launch day. I can't fathom any reason to pick this ps4 pro up. My TV already upscales beautifully. Games are made in 1080p if I'm not mistaken so that would limit the quality of upscaling I don't care what type of processing video they use PS or micro. There's no way your going to be gaming in Tru native 4k in either the pro or Scorpio at a reasonable fps the GPUs that does that costs more then these systems are selling for. I don't think we need it either. Upscaled looks pretty good and I my self can't tell a difference between an upscaled 1080p to native 4k on my 60" unless my face is touching the screen lol. But seriously a 4k TV is a great investment when you go over 52" you'll notice less artifacts in the picture and an overall better depth to the picture. In my honest opinion I would save the money get some games enjoy the system you got Xbox 1 or ps4 wait for the next gen. If you want better overall graphics and quality gaming start building a htpc for you to like I am a little at a time so it doesn't feel like it's so expensive. I will say if they had put a 4k Blu ray player in there it might have peaked my interest for a cheaper Blu ray player. I do like having the physical copy of my media btw I like looking at my cases lol.

[Ju]

The FUD is strong on these sites. The games are NOT running 1080p on the Pro, geometry scales quite well, actually (when re-rendered). But the messaging (from the competition?) was effective in the sense this is now thrown into one pot. It isn't. In the worst case it renders 50% higher, actually 1440p isn't really confirmed (but it would probably work very well for this type of GPU). The SDK has a minimum of 1800p resolution which is far beyond 1080p - and then upscales this to 2160p (4K). This will make a dramatic difference on a 4K screen. Upscaling 1800p to 2160 will look far beyond a 720p upscaled to 2160p. The only thing these two things have in common is the word "upscale".

[Pego]

I'm a Gameboy gamer and the PS4 Pro is for me.

[Miacosa]

4K Blu-rays disks have yet to take off in mass at 30-40 dollars a pop for a very limited catalog. So no real need to freak-out by the time the next rev cycle hits if the price point is cheaper and 4K Blu-rays disks are preferred in mass over just stream options & services Sony will most likely add it. In the end they made the right call the drive would only have raised the price of the console and the majority of people buying the unit is for gaming first. If someone wants the ultimate movie experience they're not looking to get a cheap gaming console first when dedicated players to the job far better. Plus if the desire to watch a movie hits there is streaming and normal up-scaled blu-rays that when sitting at normal couch viewing distance of 10ft -14ft away it looks fine to the normal non-AV enthusiast.

[BattleAxe]

"Forget 4K Blu-ray, as a die-hard PC gamer I'm hugely impressed by the PS4 Pro"

If you were actually a die-hard PC gamer, you wouldn't be impressed by PS4 Pro, total nonsense....

[SugarSoSweet]

But the Xbox Scorpio has one

[Ju]

"will" have one. So far its Vaporware.

[starchild]

You guys are so intellectually dishonest.

When Microsoft and Sony announced the Xbox 360 and PS3 and laid out the specs did people call the PS3 "vaporware" after the 360 was released and we were waiting a year for the release of the PS3? No, mostly quite the opposite. I can show you countless articles and posts where people were hyping up the PS3's superior specs. Many of them outright arguing that people should skip the 360 and wait for the more powerful PS3. Here's just one prominent example: http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

For a whole year the internet was filled with talk like that. Sony fans in particular couldn't stop taking about how much better the PS3 was.

Now that the shoe is on the other foot you want people to pretend Scorpio isn't coming. You want people to pretend it's just "vaporware" and to stop talking about it.

I don't even own an Xbox and don't plan to get one, but the absolute irrationality, double standards and intellectual dishonestly of many posters here is simply shameful.

[Markusb33]

I buy a games console for games and I don't buy physical movie discs what ever format. I have a 4k tv and if you watch the videos they released on 4k it's incredible to be truthful. It's like vr you can't demo it you have to see if for yourself. I went to my local games shop and they are getting a 4k tv to demo ps4 pro to customers even though they say pre sales are very high already. You can't view this stuff on 1080 and understand the difference especially for that low price point.

[senorfartcushion]

As a person with a brain, i am not.

[_LarZen_]

I think allot of elite PC fanboys are butthurt by the PS4Pro. Here you have a console that will make 4K mainstream at a speed the PC community can just dream of.

Sure it's mostly upscaled to 4K with the ocasional native 4K games like The Last of Us. But it's a technic that is getting close to the native image without a big power consumption and quality loss. And is one of the reasons industry leading DigitalFoundry is really impressed with what they saw after 3h of hands on time with the PS4Pro.

There is allot of misinformation and allot of damage control from fanboys on all sides these days. Problem with PS4Pro is the same as with PSVR and VR in general. You have to see it with your own eyes. And that's a big problem today with YouTube with all it's shortcomings being the video service to showcase what basically cant be shown on a 1080p monitor or TV.

Exciting times ahead for sure and even tho the Internet has been up to it usual shitstorm I think the PS4Pro will sell it'self just as VR when people see and understand what all the fuss is about.

[Germany7]

85% of the huge Pc fanbase are already playing in 4K.

[_LarZen_]

Like you I can look at Steam's hardware survey. So let's just leave it at that. You know where the door is.

[starchild]

I don't know which percentage of PC gamers are playing at 4k. It's probably fairly low right now. All I care about is that I'M playing at 4k. I have a Gsync monitor and a GTX 1070 and I'm getting around 40 or 50fps in most of my newer games at maxed or nearly maxed settings. Last gen games are obviously even higher. In any case, even 50fps on a gsync monitor feels very similar to 60fps and is quite smooth. So I'm happy with what I have.

That said, the PS4 Pro is pretty exciting. New console hardware is always exciting. The PS4 Pro will allow console oriented gamers to achieve higher fidelity and get closer to the 4k experience. It should also help encourage devs to raise the bar a little bit and add in some higher quality assets and effects to their games, which should help benefit PC gaming as well.

But it's not making me jealous or "butthurt". It's not full 4k, it's upscaled from lower resolutions between 1080p and 4k, and it's generally going to be at 30fps (with possible drops below that).

It is what it is. It's a clear and significant upgrade over the PS4. It's essentially going to be giving an experience similar to a mid range PC with something like an RX 480 (i.e. resolutions in the 1440p to 1800p range at 30fps).

[_LarZen_]

Yeah but you sound like a nice ground leveled PC gamer. My snarky comment at the start was to the the angry self entitled group.

Thankfully they are a minority :)

[Drakul]

You forget, as PS gamers we won't!!

[DivineAssault]

Im going to game on the thing primarily.. I wouldve liked a uhd bluray player but oh well.. Horizon zero dawn is going to look amazing!

[TXIDarkAvenger]

lmao this dude is not a die hard PC gamer. This dude is getting a boner from 4K upscaling LUL.

[bolimekurac]

I think t's funny how hypocritical the PS4 fans have been lately. When XB1 was announced and Microsoft had clear plans to move to a digital machine, the Sony fans were up in arms saying people didn't have reliable and good enough internet speeds to download games. They said they always liked their games on physical media.

Fast forward to the PS4 Pro announcement, where it was disclosed the machine did not have a UHD drive and would stream 4K movies using an app (which will be compressed therefore degrading quality, and tv's that are 4K already have the ability to do this making the ability to do so pointless). Suddenly physical media is old hat and everyone is into digital downloads.

So downloading games, which does not result in downgraded graphics is bad because Microsoft was moving in that direction, but streaming movies which does result in downgraded visuals is good because Sony did not give them the option to play UHD discs. Sony fan logic at its best.

[Str8Chaos74]

Yep it's really sad. Also since MS games are on PC they now all have gaming PC's.

[starchild]

But in every other context they're downplaying PC gaming as much as possible. The double standards and mental gymnastics these people perform just to make Sony's consoles always sound like they are perfect and unrivaled by anything else is honestly cringeworthy.

[akurtz]

youre clearly confused. : what gamers didnt like about MS original vision was the always online drm and the unreliability of internet connection causing the console to lock all your content.

[x_xavier_x]

Fanboys on movies:
"No one buys physical media anymore. 4K Blu-ray is unnecessary and unwanted. Digital is the only way to go!

Fanboys on games:
"I only buy physical media. Digital downloads are unnecessary and unwanted. Discs are the only way to go!

#Blu-rayDrivesMatter

[akurtz]

your parents would be ashamed if they read this.
you make no sense.

[saint_seya]

Its a big difference, movies are meant to be watch in 2/3 hrs and *many as me* never watch it again, a game is supoused to be used for days, even years, depends on the game and factors, like multiplayer, type of game, lenght..

So its normal to choose a game and try to keep it, while a movie, at least me, i never watch it more than once, thats why i rent them or watch em on theaters.

[x_xavier_x]

Your "normal" is not my normal.

I've never revisited a video game after I've played through it once. The thought of playing the same game for "years" is entirely unappealing. I see no reason to keep a physical copy of a completed game.

I've seen several films multiple times, some of which I revisit every year or so. I would say that everyone I know has watched their favorites at least 2-3 times (ask ANY movie lover how many times they've seen a beloved film like Shawshank). The benefit of having a physical copy of a movie on hand is obvious, to me at least.

[VoodooProject]

So it's still about power I see. So what happens when the most powerful console comes out for the hardcore gamers. What happens then?

[saint_seya]

What happens, well it wont play the PS4 exclusives at any resolution or frame rate, so wont change a thing.

Well i could argue that wont play any kind of exclusives if you have a GOOD GAMING PC like many of us do...

[VoodooProject]

Is everyones gaming PC running MICROSOFT Windows?

[Saito]

Pro will be fine

[Gravesinger_]

This guy doesn't sound like a "HARDCORE" PC gamer, nice try though.

[medman]

I've decided to buy one. I wasn't thrilled about it not having a 4k uhd drive, but I can buy a standalone unit. My video and audio equipment is 4k, so it will be nice to have consoles that can output a higher resolution to my screen, and hopefully the Pro and the Scorpio will also end up supporting bitstream Dolby Atmos and DTS:X.

I've heard many people complaining or questioning the Pro, but I don't get that line of thought. If you're questioning it, it's probably not for you. It was never meant to be "next gen". In fact, both Sony and Microsoft are on record long ago saying the Pro and Scorpio are mid gen refreshes, meant to keep pace with television tech, and offer better visuals for those who want to experience them. If you're not interested, certainly nobody is forcing you to do anything but enjoy the games on the system of your choice you're already using.

[Str8Chaos74]

PS4 pro is good not great and missing features. No UHD drive is stupid no matter what they try and say. Not much to justify $400 here. Can't really see hwy a hardcore PC gamer is impressed by this.

[medman]

I don't disagree with you, as I said....the lack of 4k drive really displeases me. But overall, the console will make the games, for the most part, look and run better on my 4k oled, and that was their aim. Too many gamers are fixating on the wrong things. This was never an attempt at "next gen", nor is the Scorpio. They are systems meant to update graphics for those who may have, or who may be getting, 4k uhd televisions. I'm glad they decided to do it. Absolutely. And if framerates for single player experiences improve, I'm on board with that as well.

[LastCenturyRob]

I am a console gamer and think the PSpro will be a good system. Not great, but good. I don't know one pc gamer that is "hugely impressed" by the PSpro. The specs on the Scorpio are barely passable to most hard core PC gamers.

[airforcex]

In the big scheme of things, consoles are good products/value. However, a PC gamer would already have way more power than Pro. 4K Blu would be a good incentive.

[NohansenBoy]

I'm not until real world gameplay is released.

[VJGenova]

They were never going to win over pc enthusiasts like myself, but it definitely will be good for traditional console gamers who may have been considering pc gaming for the first time.

Many pc gamers like the customization of mods, controllers, hardware, etc. You can't run the ps4 pro at 3440 x 1440, for instance.

I have a ps4 for exclusives and i do not plan to upgrade. Sure bloodborne and destiny would be great at 60 fps, but since they are locked at 30 fps due to multiplayer, i will take a pass.

[JunMei]

As a huge proponent of hi fi media, I'm deeply saddened by the lack of 4k bluray support. Hopefully, a future edition has one.

[2600Thunder]

No, click bait. I am primarily a PC gamer, but I am also getting a PS4P because I cant get enough of Sony exclusives. I always buy the consoles. This gen I decided to go Sony and Nintendo to supplement my PC. I also have a Wii-U and New3DS because I love Nintendo exclusives.

You journalists need to stop with trying to trigger separation between us gamers to fabricate platform war drama for clicks. It's unethical. Some of us just like to relax and play ALL games, so get over yourselves.

[Dunban67]

This guy is really going to LOVE the Scorpio considering it will be a better box than the Pro

[DCadence]

Discussing the differences between the Pro and Scorpio is like talking about who's going to win in an MMA fight but only one fighter shows up. One key component that keeps getting left out of the conversation or minimalized at best is the fact that those who buy the Pro will be able to enjoy games with 4K visuals more than a full year ahead of the competition. The holdouts will be waiting for a system that is still just a concept on paper. Not trying to throw shade on the Scorpio, but we vaguely know anything about it. Just a few specs and the promise of being able to do native 4K when current high-end PC's struggle with that level of visual fidelity–I find that promise suspect.
I have two major questions:
1. What will that beast of a machine cost? I mean, if I am honest, I'll probably pass on a console that costs more than four hundred–underscore probably.
2. What's it going to look like? My guess it is going to be huge if history shows us anything. Not that that would stop me from purchasing it but...
Anyway, I've already plotted down my money and pre-ordered the Pro. I'm looking forward to Nov. 10th, it will be an early Christmas for me. And on the plus side, two Xmases from now I hope to be enjoying the Scorpio as well.

[Babadook7]

I've got mine on preorder. Really wish it came in October though. :\

[underwaves75]

lol, sure you are

[AuToFiRE]

As a diehard PC gamer, I laugh at its pitiful attempt.

[The_KELRaTH]

I don't think you will see a lot of genuine 4K gaming on the Pro (much like the PS3's 1080p gaming) as it's still not powerful enough (you need around 300gb/s bandwidth not 218). But on the flip side I think just having 60/75fps on games like Battlefield etc etc will offer a great improvement in smooth gameplay especially when panning left/right and of course HDR (which requires about an extra 20% bandwidth). The downside will be for existing standard PS4 owners as I expect new titles will aim to push the Pro and then dialled back for PS4 via poor fps, no aliasing etc and end up not being a great experience.

[JoeDG]

Ok please explain to me why I need the Pro for 4k streaming ? My 4k tv have YT netflix amazon apps and a app store for more. Why anybody with a 4k tv with app store need for this the pro ?

[plmkoh]

Many people are confused why there is no UHD drive and it's pretty simple if you stop looking at Sony as just Playstation and look at it as an electronics conglomerate.

They have yet to release a standalone UHD player and have not fully adopted things like Dolby ATMOS nor VISION. It makes little sense for them to launch the product on Playstation first. A standalone player is not due until 2017 at the minimum and they are more interest in looking into HDR.

Rather than speculate crazy ideas, look at the facts.

[tontontam0]

Then you are not a die-hard PC gamer, a die-hard PC gamer would rather die than acknowledge a platform other than a PC.

[DialgaMarine]

Would it be nice to have? Sure. But it would be nothing more than an overpriced novelty. I think Sony made the best decision by not using it. PS4 Pro is for hardcore PS gamers. Keyword is GAMERS. Sony never said this was for 4K enthusiasts overall. If you're someone who's more interested in UHD Blu-Ray, then either buy a UHD Blu-Ray player separately, or buy an Xbone S. There, I solved your problem.

As for Pro, it's great that people who have actually seen it in action are praising it, as opposed to whiney opinionated douchebags on the internet who can never be happy.

[d0x360]

My 3 year old GPU has more raw power than the pro. I don't believe for a second any "pc gamer" would suddenly fall in love with the ps4 pro...sorry ain't happening