DICE: “Most Sandbox Games Are Boring”

Edge - Swedish developer DICE has revealed that combat in its upcoming shooter Battlefield 3’s campaign more closely resembles the tightly-scripted likes of the Call Of Duty series, rather than the open, sandbox style of its previous Battlefield 2: Bad Company games.

[Lovable]

I concur.

[Jaces]

Well....what about Just Cause 2?

[ugabugaz]

Most =/= All

[captain-obvious]

@ugabugaz
yah thats clever from their side

[bumnut]

Just Cause 2 is the most fun game I have played in years. The game is huge too, so much to do and destroy :)

Looks amazing in 3D too

[InLaLaLand]

I agree about Just Cause 2. Great game, much more fun than RDR. The view in the air is breath taking.

[undercovrr]

i got bored of that game is 2 days...a new record for me. Premise was really good, but combat was just so terrible.

[ThanatosDMC]

Nothing like flying a stolen jet and crashing it to some building or tank or people or boat.

[Hairy Chewie]

I got really borred with Just Cause 2. Finishing it became a chore because everything became so repetitive.

[DaTruth]

And when you die you have to fly 30 minutes back to the mission!

I finished it once and lost my savegame, but just couldn't finish it again; the place is just too big!

[HeavenlySnipes]

I hope he does mean from every genre. Because Oblivion, San Andreas, InFamous, and Red Dead Redemption would like a word with you guys.

I love how for KZ3 everyone is like, "oh just another corridor shooter, we need more sandbox games". Now BF3 is having a more linear approach to the SP and everyone agrees that this is the right thing to do WTF?

[plb]

Really depends on the game. Some are no doubt boring while others have a perfect balance of what's needed to make for a great game.

[Tuxedo_Mask]

As good as those games are if you play them long enough they can get pretty boring.

[bumnut]

I liked oblivion and San Andreas, but found RDR to be very boring.

[TotalPS3Fanboy]

The problem with open sandbox game is that there is no game flow.

The story and the gameplay are very fragmented and the story have to be divided into missions, instead of like Uncharted 2, where the story progress continously from the begining to the end with no breaks in between.

@HeavenlySnipes
I disagreed.

The openess of Oblivion and lack of story flow is what I hate about Oblivion. Oblivion gets very boring once you've pass the help-the-king-escape-scene because there is no longer a storyline progressing the game forward.

Instead, you just go wandering around aimlessly, doing random missions that doesn't have anything to do with the storyline, until you fight the final boss.

There is no gradual build up of tension to reach the point of climax and giving a satisfactory payoff, which is what a great linear game can do.

[HeavenlySnipes]

sandbox games when done well are better than linear games done well. Why? Because the developer allows you to do what you want, when you want. A game like Oblivion just introduces you to the world and leaves you to explore. You become the character that most resembles your personality, you make decisions based on your morals. Uncharted 2 is the extreme example of a very good linear game, but when you play the game you only are looking in to the life of the protagonist, you are not the protagonist. In linear games you can only do what the developers have predestined for your character. Its hard to argue against one of my favourite games EVAR!!11! but my point is that sandbox games are more immersive.

[Sprudling]

@HeavenlySnipes

And doing what you want when you want with some generic character is exactly what makes the story suffer. Stories are by definition linear and generic characters are by definition generic.

If I find myself in the situation where I'd rather do something else than continuing on with the story, then guess what? I can play another game, or.. (crazy thought).. an activity not related to gaming.

In any case, a game can still be awesome with a shitty story, or no story at all. I know of plenty examples of that.

[wedgie]

I agree with that. As another example, I enjoyed Fallout 3, and I know and understand how it is a really great game. It is just not mine.

If I had to choose, especially when it comes to RPGs, I would rather go with a Bioware one, because of the focus on story first, and then freedom.

I enjoyed it, but I just did not have the urge to have to get to the end like you do with other games. Especially when you are looking at 30+ hours

[MysticStrummer]

@wedgie - Ironically, Oblivion and Fallout 3 are much more like RPGs than any Bioware game. The original RPGs let you create a character and then put you in the world. Where you went after that was up to you. That's how I prefer it. OT - DICE is certainly allowed their opinion, as long as they understand many would say most FPSs are boring.

[ThanatosDMC]

There are so many quests in the game. You just lack focus. You could do the main quest or dont.

[wedgie]

@mystic summer- yeah, unfortunately I got into RPGs late. I need to go back and play some of the older ones, some of the final fantasys, Jade Empire, Baldur's Gate, try the earlier Fallouts, etc. My first RPG was KOTOR (heard good things and Star Wars lol)

@Thanatos-I got through it. It was just the main quest, if you just did that, was only 5 or 6 hours long tops. Not much main story.

[Ducky]

The most fun I've had in gaming has come from open-world and/or sandbox games.

Most linear games are boring to me. I might as well be watching a movie.

Although I would agree with his comment that linear games are more popular. Mainly because they'd be easier to make and a lot of people enjoy a scripted movie-like experience.

[Bravo4]

To me, Just Cause 2, Yakuza 3 and Yakuza 4 are the most fun out there. Awesome atmosphere and tons to do. Don't even get me started on Yakuza's story. Sucks you in so good. Hell, I bet it could suck a golf ball through a garden hose!

Too bad not a lot bought them or even gave them a chance. Whatever. I've played it, what do I care? Just feels like these gems need more attention.

[Wizziokid]

agreed

[-Mezzo-]

Completely agreed, i hope thats not the case with this Title.

[Danielmccue]

Open world games are only boring if you have no imagination.

sandbox games are like being a kid again, you have this huge playing space filled with toys and you can do whatever you want.

your only limit is imagination which makes sandbox games my favorite genre.

[InTheKnow]

.
We don't have it so it's boring. Poor Dice, first all other devs are treading water and now open world games, you know like GOTY RDR, are boring.

Dice, what is boring is your fantasy PC footage pretending to be how the game will look on consoles. Box art exactly like the competitors and now I'm sure game play that will also look and play the same.

Show your console version since it's so good OR are you going to continue to hide behind the PC?

Can't wait to see the MW3 game play. There won't be any tricks or illusions or hopefully dumb Dice like boasting about a game NOBODY has even seen yet.

BTW, I guess your admitting that the older Battlefield games were boring RIGHT?

@Kaveti

I'm not talking, Dice is.

MW2 had one of the most advanced engines out there and last time I checked it was the ONLY FPS running 60 fps on consoles. Is Dice's advanced engine running 60 fps? Sure the $2000 PC that is running all the trailers is but what about the consoles? Dice is lying to everyone right now and trying to hide behind PC footage KNOWING consoles don't run or have those type of resources.

Have you seen MW3? That's what I thought. So saying it looks the same puts your lying A$$ in the same category as Dice. No wonder your quick to defend the lying.

There is nothing wrong with scripted game play when done right. That's not what the post is about. A little comprehension goes a long way. Dice is complaining, not me.

[kaveti6616]

What are you talking about, man?

The older Battlefield games didn't even have campaigns.

Your username is misleading. You don't know shit.

Bad Company 1 had scripted scenes, too, and maybe DICE is admitting their fault in making it a sandbox title.

Modern Warfare 3 will look about the same as Modern Warfare 2. Activision is forcing its devs to stick with the old IW engine, which is based off the older IdTech 3 engine from Carmack.

and DICE should be allowed to advertise the footage from the best version of BF3. The PC version is the ideal version of their game.

Why are you talking about Modern Warfare when it's full of scripted scenes and is in no way a sandbox game?

[XabiDaChosenOne]

@Intheknow You are really stupid bro.
"MW2 had one of the most advanced engines out there and last time I checked it" LMAO!!

[Ducky]

"MW2 had one of the most advanced engines out there and last time I checked it was the ONLY FPS running 60 fps on consoles."

> Then you know nothing about engines.
Running at a high fps isn't the only thing which determines how advanced an engine is.
... but yes, the IW-engine is one of the best engines.
Too bad it is only used in small, static environments.

"Is Dice's advanced engine running 60 fps? Sure the $2000 PC that is running all the trailers is but what about the consoles?"

> Exaggeration is an easy way of killing your own credibility. The console version will run at 30fps, mainly because, as you skillfully noticed, they have older hardware. They'll show console footage when they're ready. In the mean time, they're showing the PC footage because that's what showcases their game in the best manner.
If the CoD series actually tried pushing the envelope nowadays, they'd be doing the same.

I haven't seen MW3, neither have you. Judging by the game's history, it won't be doing anything new. But anything is possible.

"A little comprehension goes a long way."

> Then follow your own advice. They expressed their opinion, and you started complaining about not having console footage.

[BeastlyRig]

F*&k console PC is were the Battle is at ok?

My ps3 cost me $600 & my PC cost me $800!!

Even if it looks like the PC version I can't play Battlefield 3 with 24 players.. They are not hiding they are being loyal to the people who made the company what it is now!!

Sure ps3 is $300 now but If someone pays $800 for a PC with superior hardware don't they deserve to play games of this quality to it's full potential!!

If you you don't like it buy a PC or STFU until they show console version :)

The next Medal of Honor will use the same engine!

It's PC's time to shine with this game so stop complaining ok? Now go play some uncharted or something!! (great game by the way)

[captain-obvious]

talk about butt hurt console fanboy

[Stealth20k]

boring and unoriginal but they get away with it because of cozy western media.

[gcolley]

well said

[gypsygib]

If Crysis 2 is a sandbox then I don't see a huge gameplay difference between sandbox and corridor. They both just funnel you through, sand box is just wider but it's a pretty small box.

Open world is a different story however, like Far Cry 2.

I actually found more gameplay freedom in Reach than in Crysis 2s series of small sandboxes.

[HeavenlySnipes]

its linear with 'open' levels. You can't go wherever you choose but the levels are large enough to have some room to maneuver

@ below

No, a snadbox game does not prohibit the player from going where ever they want to. A game like Oblivion is open world because you can travel across the map without restraint. You can do what ever pleases you in a sandbox game, whereas a game like Crysis 2 is linear (you can only follow the path given to you) but the levels are large enough to move around in. Not large enough that you can completely avid a firefight, but as large as say, a MGS4 level would be.

[Ducky]

"You can't go wherever you choose but the levels are large enough to have some room to maneuver"

Isn't that what 'sandbox' means?

[SnakeMustDie]

You nailed it pretty much. People are confused about the definition of "sandbox".

[Saint-Revlot]

Say that to inFamous or oblivion.

[kaveti6616]

Neither of those games are shooters, and they both do suffer from some characteristics that make them boring at times.

For example, one of the failings of Assassin's Creed and inFamous is the collection of items.

In inFamous' case it's shards and in AC's case it's flags.

It wouldn't so much matter for these types of objectives to be included in the game if they weren't an integral part of the game, but they are.

And both inFamous and Oblivion suffer from the large amounts of time you spend doing things you don't want to do or just walking around idly, like in Fallout 3.

Grand Theft Autio 4 also has the same problem.

DICE wants to put the players in the action sooner than usual.

Hopefully, BF3 won't be an ultra linear game like Uncharted 2 or Halo 3 or Killzone 2, but hopefully it also won't be too open.

Maybe BF3 will strike a good balance between openworld and linear, but not in the way Crysis 2 does it.

[Saint-Revlot]

I wouldn't call uncharted 2 ultra linear. To some extent it's linear like when moving one place to another but when you get in actual firefights there are many ways to tackle a situation. Like killing people of with stealth, or climbing up to a higher vintage point. But ND said that U3 will be a tad bit more open.

[ThanatosDMC]

Actually Infamous is pretty much a shooter. Most of his powers are basically guns, grenades, missiles, artillery, etc.

[telekineticmantis]

I'm not the biggest GTA fan, I mean it's fun but becomes pointless after awhile. Soo many open world Sandbox games are tedious, or become unengaing because of how much they stray from the point. Opening up the area is good but, there has to be a good balance, which very few games get right. The way infamous has a world that interacts with people is what really kept me engaged regarless of what I was doing, random people would run up to me and say "you're great" or can you help this guy, or help me fight the badguy by thowing rocks at him or throw rocks at me if I was the bad guy to me it's the best world in any open world game.

[B1663r]

Recently found Saints Row 2 on the bottom shelf at Gamestop. Wow, Rockstar screwed up GTAIV, this is the game I wanted to play when I purchased GTAIV day one.

Rockstar took a screw around and have fun game, and replaced it with a serious game where it didn't really belong.

Also it is yet another datapoint in my mind that Graphics only need to be compotent, what we need are more gameplay options.

@below

Thanks for the suggestion, will try!

[Ducky]

Have you tried JustCause2?
It's also a load of fun.

[Dugstar]

I much prefer Sandbox to Linear ... on rails shooters are shite and IMO I feel cheated especially if I have payed full whack for a game that is primarily focused on Multi-player .

DICE are getting a little big headed I think ..yes BF3 will no doubt get the hype machine treatment and will no doubt do well but pretty GFX don't really make a game amazing as IMO it needs the gameplay to go with it and lets hope they get it right after all the hype ..

[Raven_Nomad]

I like some sandbox type of games, but honestly I've not really completed one yet except for Crackdown, Not even GTA4 have I completed, I do get bored of them...but I will say it's fun to jump in and pick them up again and play for a bit every once and a while.

[Psychotica]

They don't want it to be a sandbox game because they want you to buy another one a year or two later. Sandbox games allow the game to go on for years for me.

[cyguration]

Too true.

I'll still be playing Saints Row 2 (the game is really long) by the time SR3 comes out.

[Saryk]

Newflash: Tofu sucks! Why? Cause I don’t like it! But never mind the other people who love it!

[iceman2885]

Its all a matter of opinion. I myself find most of the open world sandbox games boring.

Mainly because after the first 15 or so missions, you just redo the same missions in different parts of the "open world" under the guise of a new mission. There is story every here and there, but its just not my cup of tea.

I prefer a linear story that is essentially like an interactive book. But that's just me.

Like I said, its a matter of opinion, to each their own.

[fullymoated]

They think they are pretty hot stuff hiding behing their PC gameplay trailers. Time to man up and release some console footage.

[Dugstar]

Got it in one ..

[darren_poolies]

Ohhh how wrong they are. Tbh as good as Battlefield 3 looks, I cannot be bothered with another military FPS. I would much prefer some more open world games on the scene.

[J-Killer15]

I bet half the people complaining didn't play any of the Battlefield games besides both of the Bad Companies lol.

The main attraction with this game, just like all FPS, is multiplayer.

[gcolley]

well we are talking single player here... what's your point? or are you just carrying on like the rest of the elitists here. when a game has both it is like 2 games in one and, for me anyway, depends what mood i'm in. BC1 SP offered a really cool MP training ground

[ATiElite]

I like sandbox games. having the ability to go any where and do anything is great. Linear games are boring and short. you know what's gonna happen and they make me feel claustrophobic with waves after wave of spawning enemies until you reach some magical checkpoint.

BF3 is all about MP so who cares what the SP is, i still never played the SP from BC2. Good to see them having problems with the A.I....this means they are doing something new and innovative instead of the same old crap. They will get it right, DICE has talent.

[xtreampro_REVENGE!]

If he's referring to open-world then he's kind of right, they do sometimes tend to get boring after a while.

[AntiHeroComplex]

sandbox can be boring or redundant yes. but a mix of RPG and FPS is a great thing. Games like Deus ex are the best i ever played.

In real life if you are sent on a mission, you can choose how you will approach a particular situation. You could shoot, sneak, talk, defect, etc...

Why wouldnt a game give at least a few options to a player so as to how complete the objectives?

Linear games are boring b/c they give u no choice ... go from a to b. Sandbox can be boring b/c there is an infinite amount to do... so why not just live your life instead of playing? FPS with a few choices is best b/c you still have an objective, but you are given a few ways to approach it.

Thats my take anyway

[gcolley]

with that no choice you get no replay-ability as well. there is zero reason to play it again

[AntiHeroComplex]

absolutely agree with you on that. When you have multiple ways to do a task, you can always replay games and explore the other options. When i replayed deus ex i love trying different agumentations/ skill combos... sometimes going stealth and hacking, sometime more mods for direct combat, etc..

It adds another dimension to gameplay AND immersion. If you have a choice you are much more likely to feel like you are IN the game.

Im no murderer I never killed anyone in my life. I loved how deus ex lets you play without killing people if you choose not to. Its just a superb genre.

[gcolley]

another game that stinks of EA. don't try to justify something DICE when all you are is EA's bitch.

linear hand holding games are just plain boring. they become scripted movies. after the excellent single player of BC1 i was extremely disappointed in BC2 and now can be assured of being disappointed with BF3 SP.

looks like i'll jump straight into multiplayer once again. i played the SP campaign of BC1 through 5 times (each time different), didn't even finish the piece of shit that was BC2 SP and now can expect the same.

such a shame to want to be just like CoD and all the rest. can't beat 'em, join 'em.

[slavish3]

i agree just cause they can't do it you try to tell us what we should like. How about you make what WE want

[-Mezzo-]

cannot wait for BF3, loved the Bad Company 2, thats the only Battlefield I've ever played.

[slavish3]

ok just because they couldnt find away to fit it into the game or were to lazy its boring? GTFO! Don't tell the consumer what they should like because you could do it.!

[jaredhart]

RDR wasn't boring but most are.

[goodfellajay]

this is why your my boy..good post yo

[kesvalk]

minecraft is awesome...

[Zikron]

DICE: Less talking about single player and AI, more talking about multiplayer. I don't like where your collective mind is at right now. Shame on you.