How Halo: Reach Graphics Are Real-Time (And Borrow from Killzone 2)

Split-Screen: "If you haven't seen the world premiere of Halo: Reach at the Spike TV Video Game Awards 2009, then, well, it doesn't make much difference. It wasn't the lackluster 'That's it?' of the E3 2K9 reveal but it wasn't the awesome testosterone fest of Halo 2's (ultimately watered down) New Mombasa gameplay reveal at E3 2003. That said, Halo: Reach looks far better than any Halo to date. Queries have been arising as to whether the game is running on a new engine or not, but we can confirm one thing: Yes, Reach is running in real time."

Update: To verify, it is the portions after the 0:34 mark in the trailer that we are referring to as real time.

[-Seven-]

The only thing I might have gotten out of that was six member squad co-op. And they had to say that.

[Saaking]

The trailer looked really nice. KZ2 did meet expectations set by it's trailer so let's see how Reach does.

[Elven6]

^^^^

Omg, twins!

[Raf1k1]

It's happening quite a bit today

[-Seven-]

This is real-time, yes. They could navigate through the scene with a free camera, etc... But it's not IN-GAME. It's using high-poly custcene graphics and it's obvious if you have some experience in game-making.

Cutscenes are able to be rendered smoothly with high-poly models because it's just a huge baked animation. When you're actually in the game, the interactivity costs a lot of graphical power and you need to switch to low-poly models.

And besides, I don't even know why we're in such a heated debate over this. It's not like these graphics are anything new. Uncharted 2 easily surpasses that and Killzone 2 is on par at the very least

[Jamescagney]

It's happening quite a bit today

[-Alpha]

We have already been through this. Killzone 2 trailer did not match up to the final product. Not that the final product was bad, but the trailer did not match up to the gameplay, nor is it supposed to. A lot of people hyped it as in-game. Trailers never look as good as the real thing and Killzone is no different.

[Hisiru]

We have already been through this. Killzone 2 trailer did not match up to the final product. Not that the final product was bad, but the trailer did not match up to the gameplay, nor is it supposed to. A lot of people hyped it as in-game. Trailers never look as good as the real thing and Killzone is no different.

[Head Shot King]

We have already been through this. Killzone 2 trailer did not match up to the final product. Not that the final product was bad, but the trailer did not match up to the gameplay, nor is it supposed to. A lot of people hyped it as in-game. Trailers never look as good as the real thing and Killzone is no different.

[NATAL-FTW]

We have already been through this. Killzone 2 trailer did not match up to the final product. Not that the final product was bad, but the trailer did not match up to the gameplay, nor is it supposed to. A lot of people hyped it as in-game. Trailers never look as good as the real thing and Killzone is no different.

[Jamescagney]

We have already been through this. Killzone 2 trailer did not match up to the final product. Not that the final product was bad, but the trailer did not match up to the gameplay, nor is it supposed to. A lot of people hyped it as in-game. Trailers never look as good as the real thing and Killzone is no different.

[raztad]

As someone posted above IN-GAME movies (FMV) are not the same than gameplay. Just for those doubting

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Thats a smash up of FMVs from AC:ACit. They look much better than gameplay (gameplay looks gorgeous but still is not a match by any means)

[Greywulf]

Trying to pretend that because it doesn't match a Maya render perfectly, that it some how takes away from Kz2's engine is a joke. In one hand, it doesn't match a render. On the other hand, It walks all over Gears2/Halo3-ODST/Every franchise on the 360- from a strictly graphics perspective.

Bungie did this before with Halo3. All of you were "zomg" at the other 'realtime' trailer, just as Epic does with Gears. How many times can you guys get fooled here? Its been many years, and no one has delivered bar raising visuals on the 360 since gears1. I think much like the Gears2 hype, we will see the usual 360 progression from "realtime footage" to footage that looks oddly like previous game when you actually get a user interface in, for some strange reason. But 2010 will be different from all those other years...why again, the 360's upgraded hardware..oh wait..?

I'm more interested to see if Bungie can do 720p, and more on the screen & stream load w/o install. Or if you will all use some excuse of it being open world.. with invisible walls..., and if the multiplayer headcount increases, as well as the degrade MP visuals, since everyone knows Halo isn't about the short story mode. I think any cutscene without much going on surely can be polished.

This Cutscene by Cutscene bar standards of UC1/UC2/Killzone2, isn't on par, but it looks great compared to Mass Effect & Gears though.

The most interesting thing about Halo:Reach, is its new Color choice. I wonder will Gamesradar/Media bash H:R for having a muted color palette, as they tried with killzone2?

[kaveti6616]

Trying to pretend that because it doesn't match a Maya render perfectly, that it some how takes away from Kz2's engine is a joke. In one hand, it doesn't match a render. On the other hand, It walks all over Gears2/Halo3-ODST/Every franchise on the 360- from a strictly graphics perspective.

Bungie did this before with Halo3. All of you were "zomg" at the other 'realtime' trailer, just as Epic does with Gears. How many times can you guys get fooled here? Its been many years, and no one has delivered bar raising visuals on the 360 since gears1. I think much like the Gears2 hype, we will see the usual 360 progression from "realtime footage" to footage that looks oddly like previous game when you actually get a user interface in, for some strange reason. But 2009 will be different from all those other years...why again?

I'm more interested to see if Bungie can do 720p, and more on the screen & stream load w/o install. Or if you will all use some excuse of it being open world.. with invisible walls..., and if the multiplayer headcount increases, as well as the degrade MP visuals, since everyone knows Halo isn't about the short story mode.

[SilentNegotiator]

http://talkplaystation.com/...

Keep dreaming, fanboy. KZ2 looks BETTER than its old renders.

[YoungKiller25]

http://talkplaystation.com/...

Keep dreaming, fanboy. KZ2 looks BETTER than its old renders.

[pixelsword]

As someone posted above IN-GAME movies (FMV) are not the same than gameplay. Just for those doubting

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Thats a smash up of FMVs from AC:ACit. They look much better than gameplay (gameplay looks gorgeous but still is not a match by any means)

[bjornbear]

Same Reason the intro uses CG and in game graphics interchanging between the two:

They wanted you to see how CLOSE the two were.

I noticed this when 1st started the game w a friend. We had an argument about the intro scenes over whether it was in game or CGI

Then we realised it was a medly between CGI and IN game just to show off HOW good the graphics were.

@ Alpha-Male22

Hye check Silent Negotiator's link >>>

http://talkplaystation.com/...

The game surpasses the CGI video.

However obv the CGI video has better FPS motion and anti alaising since it IS a CGI video, but the game has better textures, lighting and over all looks better =)

[-Seven-]

Same Reason the intro uses CG and in game graphics interchanging between the two:

They wanted you to see how CLOSE the two were.

I noticed this when 1st started the game w a friend. We had an argument about the intro scenes over whether it was in game or CGI

Then we realised it was a medly between CGI and IN game just to show off HOW good the graphics were.

@ Alpha-Male22

Hye check Silent Negotiator's link >>>

http://talkplaystation.com/...

The game surpasses the CGI video.

However obv the CGI video has better FPS motion and anti alaising since it IS a CGI video, but the game has better textures, lighting and over all looks better =)

[UnSelf]

Same Reason the intro uses CG and in game graphics interchanging between the two:

They wanted you to see how CLOSE the two were.

I noticed this when 1st started the game w a friend. We had an argument about the intro scenes over whether it was in game or CGI

Then we realised it was a medly between CGI and IN game just to show off HOW good the graphics were.

@ Alpha-Male22

Hye check Silent Negotiator's link >>>

http://talkplaystation.com/...

The game surpasses the CGI video.

However obv the CGI video has better FPS motion and anti alaising since it IS a CGI video, but the game has better textures, lighting and over all looks better =)

[Ju]

For all we know it can be in-game and realtime - running the new engine on a Quad core PC with high end graphics card.

Did they actually say that runs realtime on a 360 ? Even "in-engine" means nothing. It could even use the engine to render a cutscene at 1fps and record it. No big deal. Speculation, speculation. Let the hype begin.

[Sarcasm]

For all we know it can be in-game and realtime - running the new engine on a Quad core PC with high end graphics card.

Did they actually say that runs realtime on a 360 ? Even "in-engine" means nothing. It could even use the engine to render a cutscene at 1fps and record it. No big deal. Speculation, speculation. Let the hype begin.

[FACTUAL evidence]

i'm sorry but halo is so generic now.

[Nikuma]

i'm sorry but halo is so generic now.

[Nac]

We have already been through this. Killzone 2 trailer did not match up to the final product. Not that the final product was bad, but the trailer did not match up to the gameplay, nor is it supposed to. A lot of people hyped it as in-game. Trailers never look as good as the real thing and Killzone is no different.

[Sarcasm]

"Games are coming that blow past PS3 exclusives. Took PS3 fans long enough to work up the nerve to spin what was shown. Halo Reach looks better than KZ2, you would have to be bat sh*t crazy to refuse to see it."

lol whatever helps you sleep at night. That's why the entire industry is in shock that Uncharted 2 is the BENCHMARK of graphics on consoles today. But sure, tell yourself anything so you can feel better about yourself.

[Jamescagney]

"Games are coming that blow past PS3 exclusives. Took PS3 fans long enough to work up the nerve to spin what was shown. Halo Reach looks better than KZ2, you would have to be bat sh*t crazy to refuse to see it."

lol whatever helps you sleep at night. That's why the entire industry is in shock that Uncharted 2 is the BENCHMARK of graphics on consoles today. But sure, tell yourself anything so you can feel better about yourself.

[Budg3tG4m3r]

This is the dumbest article I seen on N4G to date. Could someone please tell me how it is that this guy can see Halo in Killzone?

[MNicholas]

In fact, much of it is using in-game and real-time cut-scene assets (models, shaders, etc...) but rendered on a PC to get rid of "jaggies" and script the animation (Halo games have always had PS1-quality animation).

The quality of the lighting is disappointing. Many lights don't actually cast any light at all (just bright colored textures with a targetted blur).

If Halo Reach wants to be taken seriously for it's visuals it needs to do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[bacon13]

^ LOL, you guys are hilarious

The trailer did look pretty good. I love how everyone are at each others throats over graphics. Who cares if Halo: Reach doesn't look as good as Killzone 2 and vice versa? Play what makes you happy. I don't even like Halo, but the new trailer definitely raised my eyebrow and peaked my interest. It was a breath of fresh air to see Halo with some updated graphics.

[talltony]

"The PS3 and Xbox 360 both have a common limiting factor in their texture quality, but being less powerful, it’s more noticeable on the 360 in one particular area: Environment, particularly ground, textures. The ground textures have a slightly blurred characteristic to them, not looking totally sharp, but still of acceptable quality and a huge-step up from previous Halo’s mundaneness."

[TheBand1t]

For someone who joined only 9 hours ago you sure do know alot about N4G members.

Hello new Why Dis account.

[darkequitus]

Well written analysis from a gaming tech guru. And the Xenos is inferior of course
/S

Another on who can't accept that is realtime.

http://www.split-screen.com...

Edit: @ below..Er...Did you read the article where it says real from 0:34???

"Yes, Reach is running in real time. Well, at least after the 0:34 mark in the premiere trailer. Sorry fans but those parts, featuring a Warthog drive through a morose atmosphere with Pelicans overhead, are decidedly not real time." End quote.

[Nike]

Did you miss the title that says this most certainly IS real time? And being in real time and being more of the same Halo in terms of gameplay are two different topics.

Edit: Because you're saying from some one who can't accept this is real time but the same guy wrote saying this is real time as said in the heading. And according to the link you posted, he was talking about the gameplay, not the graphics, when saying Reach would be more of the same Halo.

[3sexty rulzzz]

"Lekgolo
December 14th, 2009 at 10:26 am
Sorry but this is really the most stupidest ps3 fanboy argument ever made. Maybe if you actually knew your information on CG and real-time rendering, could you have made a valid argument. Killzone 2’s lighting systems are completely done by illuminate labs. See here: http://www.illuminatelabs.c... So saying that bungie is actually using illuminate lab’s lighting in halo’s rendering system? I don’t think so. Second of all, the real time character lighting systems is done by a shader process called Point Lighting. The effects of point lighting can be seen here. http://brooknovak.files.wor...
Something that bungie has mastered since halo 3. Killzone 2’s real-time lighting systems uses the oldest form graphics computing on a count of ps3’s limited graphical processing. And guerrilla games seem to enjoy covering them up with a barrage of pixel shaders to make things seem “pretty”. As for your argument on the blurry textures. It is a method called dithering. All ps3 games have this too. And killzone 2 has an extremely large amount of blurry textures, that are covered up by having grainy noise textures and vignetting. Snap out of this ps3 fanboy act of yours and learn your sh!t before you start spitting out this crap."

[Ju]

Maybe I am just stupid or what, but illuminate labs sells "pre-baking" tools to integrate into the "content pipeline". What that means is, that they just pre-process data in an efficient way so the engine can render light properly. It is not part of the engine. At least that is how I understand what they say on their web site. The lightning engine itself still needs to be done within the proper engine. So far I only see UE3 integration in their portfolio.

[MNicholas]

If KZ2's lighting system uses "the oldest form of graphics computing" then please list games that have used that system before.

BTW, Illuminate labs did not create the real-time lighting system for any of the games they list. Those games have very different real-time lighting systems and are built on a variety of different engines.

[jack who]

"Reach is running in real time.Well, at least after the 0:34 mark in the premiere trailer. Sorry fans but those parts, featuring a Warthog drive through a morose atmosphere with Pelicans overhead, are decidedly not real time."

DarkWaterClone: our cinematics run real time in our game engine,they're not outsourced CG

[Assassin Creed]

Killzone 2>>>>>gaylo b1tch

[Shaka2K6]

.

[jhoang]

i believe the trailers is running in real time but i just want to know if it was done the same way as U2 cinematics i.e motion capture? if so it makes sense because if its this way it allows for awesome lighting which makes the trailer looks awesome.

[nix]

http://psnow.es/uploads/ima...

[Godmars290]

The only thing I might have gotten out of that was six member squad co-op. And they had to say that.

@Below:
Where, from one light source that was shown that was separate from the rest of the trailer? You're honestly trying to compare that to the dozens in KZ2?

[Nike]

Just in terms of the lightning system. Hell, it doesn't borrow any gameplay aspects but their lighting systems share a lot in common.

[bjornbear]

is that it finally has a lighting system dignified of a Next Gen game =)

About bloody time

[Godmars290]

How about waiting for some actual honest gameplay before saying that it does?

[CryWolf]

The Halo Reach trailer with in-game graphics looks Ok but KillZone 2 graphics still looks better then Halo Reach graphics does.

[SaberEdge]

No they don't. Killzone 2 is a really nice looking game, but this surpasses it.

[duplissi]

saber is silly..... te he.

[Timesplitter14]

This is real-time, yes. They could navigate through the scene with a free camera, etc... But it's not IN-GAME. It's using high-poly custcene graphics and it's obvious if you have some experience in game-making.

Cutscenes are able to be rendered smoothly with high-poly models because it's just a huge baked animation. When you're actually in the game, the interactivity costs a lot of graphical power and you need to switch to low-poly models.

And besides, I don't even know why we're in such a heated debate over this. It's not like these graphics are anything new. Uncharted 2 easily surpasses that and Killzone 2 is on par at the very least

[Head Shot King]

This is real-time, yes. They could navigate through the scene with a free camera, etc... But it's not IN-GAME. It's using high-poly custcene graphics and it's obvious if you have some experience in game-making.

Cutscenes are able to be rendered smoothly with high-poly models because it's just a huge baked animation. When you're actually in the game, the interactivity costs a lot of graphical power and you need to switch to low-poly models.

And besides, I don't even know why we're in such a heated debate over this. It's not like these graphics are anything new. Uncharted 2 easily surpasses that and Killzone 2 is on par at the very least

[Timesplitter14]

...what?

[Perkel]

@ Head Shot King

wtf ? another multiple account ?

[Sarcasm]

@ Head Shot King

wtf ? another multiple account ?

[Omega Zues]

ummm ya, trying to compare Reach to Killzone 2 is just painful. Please split-screen.com just stop.

Their a world apart. Apples and Oranges.

[masterofpwnage]

read the article man.
they are just stating on how it looks like reach and killzone uses the same lighting engine.

[eagle21]

Dudes walking around slow isn't gameplay. Po-leaze. :)

[MajestieBeast]

But some guy was doing bad ass reloading and they had borrowed ghost from modern warfare that counts for somerthing right.

[iNcRiMiNaTi]

nobody borrowed ghost from mw2. all ghost had was a rag on his face that looked like a skull.

its more like both reach and mw2 borrowed from army of two

[asyouburn]

halo 3 looked good enough. its not like you guys were playing it on atari

[pixelsword]

I didn't see a reason for Killzone having to "kill" Halo.

[BreakNeckSpeed]

"Well, at least after the 0:34 mark in the premiere trailer. Sorry fans but those parts, featuring a Warthog drive through a morose atmosphere with Pelicans overhead, are decidedly not real time."

So explain how bungie managed to have dozens of banshees fighting off in the distance in Halo 3 as set as random set pieces ? Its BS to say that wasn't in real time.

[VirusOz]

So now Killzone 2 was a cheat? Hmm alright we'll see when killzone 3 comes out. Back to the topic, Halo Reach does look way more girttier and gloomy. I like that. But they are copying Killzone WAY to much. It only crossed my ind as soon as the article mentioned that game (Killzone)

[BreakNeckSpeed]

How are they copying killzone 2?

[00]

I see no relations to Killzone 2.

[00]

because it's darker does not mean it's borrowing from KZ2.

[00]

I just think they are trying to create a better atmosphere that match the tone of the story.

[dangert12]

the halo novel just like kill zone sarcasm

[jackalman]

The character models look like something out of Half Life 2. This was suppose to be the 360's flagship game and it's no where near Killzone 2's in-game cinematics. I mean if they can't pull it of in the cinematic trailer they've just unveiled, then it's, "Game Over Man!" Just like that whinny guy from James Cameron's masterpiece, "Aliens" says, "Game Over Man!" This is the best that its gonna get. I dont care if its in the pre-Alpha,Delta, Bravo, whatever stage. This it. "Game Over Man!!!"
P.S. I've got a 360 and a Ps3 and Im not a fanboy of either. Maybe its not about each of the consoles limitations. Maybe it's just the developers who are to lazy and overpaid to care about pushing either console to it's limits. Let's face it Bungie has let us down again in terms of the graphics department, who knows the story and awesome but slow gameplay might save it like Halo 3 did.

[Dorwrath]

PS3 fanboy in denial. Either that or go get your eyes checked.

Oh and comparing the game to Half Life 2, well that's a pretty big complement. After all Half Life series is one of the best ever.

[Godmars290]

Actually, it says something that the 360 have been questioning KZ2, saying that its not good much less successful, and yet the first thing they do is compare Halo Reach to it. Saying that Reach is on par if not better.

[Kushan]

"The PS3 and Xbox 360 both have a common limiting factor in their texture quality, but being less powerful, it’s more noticeable on the 360 in one particular area: Environment, particularly ground, textures."

Is a common misconception. Yes, on the whole the PS3 is more powerful than the 360 thanks to the CELL, but that only makes it more powerful in certain ways. Thinks like physics (and thus AI), collision detection, that kind of thing are where the PS3 is capable of truly shining. Sheer numbers of things going on screen and that kind of deal.
However, when it comes to processing textures, the GPU is what does all the work - CPUs (and thus SPUs) aren't designed for those kind of operations and are painfully slow (comparatively speaking) at them. The GPU on the 360 is easily on par with that of the PS3, in fact it has a slight advantage with the eDRAM the 360 carries (which is pretty much why every 360 game out there has at least 4xAA whereas some PS3 games do not). Neither has more graphics memory than the other (Both have 512Mb of memory total, the difference being that the PS3 reserves 256Mb purely for graphics whereas the 360 can have memory allocated whatever way you like - can be an advantage, but then the PS3's 256Mb of XDRAM is faster so it evens out), collectively they have the same amount so the texture resolution isn't going to be much different on either console. You'll find that what really sets the two consoles apart in the end is the post processing (PS3 can do some fancy stuff the 360 isn't designed for) or the odd occasion where a game engine is designed specifically for the PS3 in mind (KZ2) where it uses a much different technique than most traditional game engines.

Anyway I'm digressing quite a bit here, basically what I'm saying is that the environmental textures of reach look that way for a different reason that hasn't been stated yet, perhaps due to huge environments or the way the game loads them, or maybe its not final, who other than Bungie really knows? The only thing I know is that it isn't because of some limitation of the 360 specifically.

[NATAL-FTW]

The best tool for picking up after your dog. Mutt Mitts features a heavier gauge material for more security when picking up your dog's waste. They are 2-ply at the business end and form a roomy pocket for easy pick up. Mutt Mitts are 100% degradable

[thewhoopimen]

Kushan... those certain 'advantages' of the cell is what makes KZ2 feel like being in a real battle and what ps3 players talk about how sparse 360 environments are. This trailer basically shows the 360 can generate the same quality textures as the ps3, but what really remains to be seen is how many dynamic effects can be handled by xenon/xenos. The sheer visuals of sparks flying, bouncing, shrapnel, smoke, dust, in the first party ps3 titles is what makes these titles amazing.

[Godmars290]

How about you're not making any real sense. That as yet nothing on the 360 backs up your assertion that where it looks better, the PS3 can have more happening on screen.

I mean the PS3 does have examples to back up claims made about it, but there has yet to be a game on the 360 that looks as good as UC2 or KZ2. Yet by your count its titles should be surpassing the PS3's. At least in graphic quality.

[Ju]

"However, when it comes to processing textures, the GPU is what does all the work".

Err, no. Read this: http://www.technology.scee....

With KZ2 explicitly mentioned.

[Myzer]

There was nothing in that trailer that made me go "wow" from a graphics standpoint. I thought it looked pretty average.

[Umbrella Corp]

Didnt John 117 die already?Anyways if Bungie ups the graphics,makes the story original and keeps the amazing mindless multiplayer this will be a day one for me.

[Nac]

Two things:

1. Watch post credits
2.Reach takes place at the battle that is rightbefore Halo 1

[Umbrella Corp]

oh thank's,here's dome bubbles my friend :D

[redneck_smith]

HALO REACH WITH KILLZONE 2 GRAPHICS? HEHEHEHE KEEP DREAMING!

[The Killer]

we still didnt see any in-game real time footage!! we so something like a target goal and they claimed it was real time!! if the gameplay will look like this then why we didnt see 1 second gameplay and shooting?

even with the current graphics the people looks Barbi dolls plastic!! the skin and everything is shining like a mirror!!

so even if the game does look like this its still not even close to uncharted 1!!!!

[spunnups]

That was a cut scene , nothing else.

[unknownhero1123]

then it will be the best looking 360 game to date. This has gotten me intrigued to say the least. honestly, I hope it does because it will give sony some competition* in graphics

*meaning that it will make sony work on better graphics that surpasses KZ2 and UC2. competition is good for both sides if you don't have your fanboy googles on.

[Ju]

Not sure if that is needed. Even without "external" competition, we got games like R2 (I still count that in here), KZ2, UC2, GT5, GoW3, FF-XIII and others. They are competing with themselves. Nice that others try to keep up, though.

[gta2800]

I don't really think anyone is doubting this is in game. There's nothing special about it to make people think it's CGI like Killzone was getting compared to. But although this cutscene was rendered with the game engine it doesn't necessarily mean that's how the gameplay will look like and that's what people are probably questioning. I for one, wasn't wowed by this. It does look slightly better than the best Microsoft has to offer at this point, but 5 years just to take this slight graphical jump? that's kind of pathetic. Microsoft must be really trying to push their graphics now, due to PS3 getting pumped with graphical masterpieces, but their best just wont be enough with that inferior power to work with.

[Half-Mafia]

it does look very nice but its Halo and i hate halo. Next

[horndog]

Halo Reach with surpassed KZ2 graphics. Confirmed.

[The Iron Sheik]

get your eyes checked.

[SaberEdge]

I think you need to get your eyes checked, IronChef. Halo Reach does indeed look better than Killzone 2.

[ajkla92]

patch your eyes to version 2009. keep dreaming bot

[The Iron Sheik]

I see SabreEdge is another participant in the massive bot circle jerk of delusion.

[Narutone66]

running/rendered on a high-end quad-core pc with high-end dual graphic cards. If you think the 360 could run that kind of HD graphics, think again. The 360 does not run HD games, specially FPS games.

[SSCOOLCHEA]

AND MEET UNCHARTED 1 OR HEAVENLY SWORDS GRAPHICS......LMAO

OR BETTER YET ...MATCH GOD OF WAR COLLECTIONS GRAPHICS......

[bunfighterii]

whatever, the game still looks good.

As long as its not that dump of a game ODST was, then it'll be good.

[Father Murder X]

Why is there so much Killzone 2 talk when it comes to Halo: Reach. Killzone 2 set no new standards. Killzone 2 flopped commercially. Killzone doesn't even belong in the same sentence as Halo. With all its good graphics it still didn't sell that well. Its like more people are talking about Killzone 2 than who actually bought the damn game. I am a realist.

[Akagi]

All aboard the hype-train!

First stop: Disappointment.

[SaberEdge]

I wasn't disappointed by Halo ODST, so I seriously doubt I will be disappointed by Halo Reach.

You want to know which shooter ended up disappointing me? Resistance 2.

[thief]

graphics: R2 is better
Content: R2 has fresh 60-player online maps, 8-player coop and twice the single player length of ODST
Story: average on both
Gameplay: spray and pray, generic shooting on both
KZ2 >> R2 (except for the coop) > ODST

[UrGrannyzATranny]

This game will be an epic fail. This video sucked. None of this will look this good on the 360, because the 360 can't put out graphics like the mini movies lol. Super lame.

[Teh Cell]

If that trailer is indeed real-time, then it will have amazing visuals.

[Teh Cell]

The trailer looked really nice. KZ2 did meet expectations set by it's trailer so let's see how Reach does.

[fadeawayjae]

For you guys who haven't seen Killzone 2 in action and talkin shizzz like "oh Killzone Graphics are not all that" check out these screenshots look at the lighting, blood effects, ground textures, gun models and to remind you these are not even direct feed but taken from a camera. I don't think Halo Reach can touch Killzone 2.

[StrboyM]

Uhm you guys are kiding right?

You really think this looks as good as KZ2.....can I please have some of what you are smoking?

[talltony]

I dont get it either. These bots are just in denial mode. They obviously dont even know what killzone 2 looks like.

[monstrado]

Did that need clarification? I could immediately tell that was real-time...I don't see how there were really any revolutionary improvements to the engine. Texture mapping still looks awful, but I guess it's a console so what ever.

I would say, their new engine needs some serious work if they claim that is final.

[Nac]

The only thing i have ever hear about Killzone 2 is about its graphics. Wow, there must not really be anything else to the game.

[thief]

Actually there is:
- the best AI in any shooter game
- a really good use of first person cover that works great in combating the enemy AI
- a very tactical multiplayer where you have to work with your team and the terrain to survive as opposed to the Halo/CoD twitch shooting
- Superb implementation of muliple stages and classes within the multi(done before, but never as well)
- a heavy feel to movement which adds to the importance of tactics and realism over reflexes
- a great story setting which unfortunately wasnt very well captured this time.

And did I mention the graphics - which includes not just resolution (80 frames higher than the ludicrously inferior 360 flagship title) or AA (runs off the cell, in what is easily the best engine this geenration) but alo awesome lighting and particle effects which you have to see to believe - but of course you havent seen it right

[Nac]

I got five minutes in and characters are extremely over the top, like a 1st person Gears of War. I also get the feeling that, since I didn't play the first one that i wont know what the hell is going on.

[taylork37]

@ thief.

I played through the game on the hardest difficulty, and played at least 10 hours into the muliplayer. With that said, I have this reply to your comment.

1. I really do not see how you can call this the best A.I. in any shooter. Not only can you not possibly know this, but the "more intelligent" A.I. did not even stand out as I played through. Furthermore, giving me the "A.I. is so much better" argument, even if true, is a funny way to try and overcompensate for a game that just really wasn't that great. Its almost as bad as someone telling you a game is great because it had a lot of sales.

2. "a really good use of first person cover that works great in combating the enemy AI " Laugh... Gears of War 1 has just as good of a cover system.

3. "a very tactical multiplayer where you have to work with your team and the terrain to survive as opposed to the Halo/CoD twitch shooting"

So you are just saying that it is more frustrating. I cannot see how this makes the game better. This just proves that it is more about camping/spraying than actual pure skill.

4. "- Superb implementation of muliple stages and classes within the multi(done before, but never as well) " Like you said. Already done before.

5."a heavy feel to movement which adds to the importance of tactics and realism over reflexes "Exactly like Gears of War. Enough Said.

6."a great story setting which unfortunately wasn't very well captured this time."

LOL...Yep

So yeah...just graphics.

[DaChinPin]

Every one of your points are about how Killzone 2 just isn't that great. I would've actually accepted your views but unfortunately, you made one mistake. You compared Gears, a 3rd person shooter, with Killzone, a 1st person shooter. Gears is about having big guns and taking down giant monsters. Killzone is about the war between humans and the Helghest.

I'm sorry, but next time ytou try to make a valuable point, try to compare two games that are alike, and not 2 games that only "share" a similar cover system(which isn't even true anyways since Gears is TPS and Killzone is FPS).

[taylork37]

"Gears is about having big guns and taking down giant monsters. Killzone is about the war between humans and the Helghest."

I compared the two games in two parts of gameplay...cover system and the heavy movement of the players. That is it...How does what you just said actually prove anything at all? Stop putting your own twists on my argument and responding to it like I actually said that.

To respond to the relevant parts of your "response":

I'm guessing if you played the two games, you would realize that the one part of game play (cover system) is very similar, with the only difference being the position of the camera. Both games are still all about cover, and how can a cover system in KZ2 be that much more advanced than Gears. It's a cover system...

[thief]

"since the 360 hardware is more limited"
"...being less powerful, it’s more noticeable on the 360... ground textures have a slightly blurred characteristic to them, not looking totally sharp"
So reviewers have finally come into the open on what we knew long back, the 360 is not just poorly made, with a 30% defect rate, it doesnt only overcharges for everything from hard drive to online - its also a piece of garbage compared to the PS3's superior cell based architecture. No wonder the enormous gap between L4D2, ODST and Forza on one hand and KZ2, UC2 and GT5 on the other

[maspi]

it's a in-engine trailer.absolutely not the same thing as a trailer using real-time assets.medal of honor is a "real time" trailer.halo reach not.look at both trailer and you'll see the difference.

[Bodyboarder_VGamer]

Remember that we PS3 owners have been enjoying game with superior graphic quality than the X360 fans for so much time that when they get a game with a little boost on the graphic department all of them are like: "Wow, this is the most amazing graphics yet!". Then we come and say: "meh, Uncharted 2, Killzone 2 blow that game graphics out of the water. No comparison bot". =)

[gtamike123]

PS3 has better graphics

http://psnow.es/uploads/ima...

http://psnow.es/uploads/ima...

[gtamike123]

Halo Reach Confirmed not running in HD

[Tyre]

High-poly models are achieved with the hardware Tesselation without extra CPU load http://www.gameguru.in/firs... these features haven't been used much but are used extensively in Halo:Reach...Fanboys stop spraying bull and accept that Halo:Reach looks like this in-game.

[jaseo]

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

"So, just how "real" is the new trailer? Prior to its unveiling, wording on the content was carefully chosen. The video would be "in-engine", the key phase missing there being "real-time". It's fairly obvious that what we have here is a offline render of a Reach cut-scene: Bungie effectively allowing the engine all the time it needs to create a massively high-resolution version of the cinematic, which is then downscaled to native 720p, eliminating all aliasing and producing a superb-looking presentation. "

[Tyre]

Stop spraying bull and read the article behind my link message above and this http://www.extremetech.com/... about DX11 and Hardware features of Xbox360 further down the article

[Ju]

You referring to this:

"It's a superset of the features in the Xbox 360's tessellator unit, so game developers using that can get the same results from the same data sets on the PC, with DirectX 11 hardware. " ?

You know what a "superset" is, right ? The 360 has some very primitive support for HW tessellation, nothing like the the tessellation used in DX11. It possibly started there (ATI had that for quite some time now), but it has never been used in PCs because there was no standard for it. DX11 - on the PC (!) - changed that. There is no DX11 for the 360.

On a console games could always go the extra mile and squeeze the HW to the max, because they don't have to worry if that code runs on the "other guy's machine" (because it will). If the HW was there from the start (since almost 5 years now), then somebody would have used it by now, DX11 or not (you can always bypass an API and hit the chip directly - somebody would have found a way, I am sure. Same like the EDRAM requires a HW setup/direct programming, and not an API). Just because DX11 is released on a PC (with Windows7) doesn't automatically mean, the 360 all of a sudden becomes more powerful.

[Jamescagney]

@ Head Shot King

wtf ? another multiple account ?

[Richdad]

Its in game FMV but still, even being FMV it looks good enough too me. There is a lot of time (1 year ) for Bungie to improve graphics.
Compare it to any of Halo 3 FMV your will see the difference.

Also note that there are too much CGI's in Halo 3 in between which seem like FMV so dont get confused. FMV do look better it cannot make KZ1 look like KZ2.

[gtamike123]

Remember this video lol
"halo 3 bubble shield trailer"
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
(not ingame graphics)

[jdktech2010]

No sh*t Sherlock....they said that Halo 3 trailer was CGI....did you hit your head as a child or something?

[rawd]

Please don't compare that kiddy space marine crap to KZ2. Kthxbye

[stennexxx]

For those of you who have not played KZ2 as yet please do so before commenting. For us who have played it and are still playing it we know how great the game really is. Please let the others know how serious and well done the game is. For example when shooting the enemy, the animation is so life like, detail of bullets just simply hitting the enemy is amazing. Almost every thing in KZ2 just shines like in Uncharted 2. Halo Reach might end up on 3 discs but i do not see Bungie trying to compromise the game by squeezing Hi-res textures onto a DVD. If i were some of you, i hate to say this, but you might be better off buying the PC version, at least you can turn up the graphical settings. I am looking more towards the storyline to see if it will interest me the way the first Halo did.

[napoleon_ist]

nah, Halo doesn't even reach HD. :|

[xtreampro_REVENGE]

KZ3 will look 50x's better than KZ2 and will feature TRUE destructible environments and the game will run at a solid 60FPS.

Lets see if Halo: Reach can top that because it barely surpasses RFOM let alone UC2, KZ2 and it will be completely destroyed by GOW3.

KZ3, R3, GOW3, GT5, HR and any other game that's exclusive to the PS3 in 2010 will make Halo: Rehash look like a Wii game HAHAHAHAHA!

[taylork37]

So the Reach graphics cannot surpass KZ2. Hopefully no one really expected that.

How hard is it to surpass anything other part of KZ2 though?

Stick to defending UC2., because KZ2 is a waste of time.

[Nac]

"but...but teh graphics!"

[Nac]

I love UC2.

[taylork37]

That's why you should defend it and not KZ2. Its actually a good game.

[gtamike123]

halo 3 bubble shield trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

We all know this video was a lie

[Nac]

I dont know about a "lie", no one ever said this was in-game engine footage. Just a commercial to be used during a football game.

But speaking of "lies", what about that E3 footage of Killzone 2, the one that was referred to as actual gameplay?

[avengers1978]

If you actually played KZ2 then you know that it was pretty damn close to that footage, and KZ2 is far better looking a game then anything on the 360, and KZ2 isn't even the best looking game for the PS3. KZ2>Halo

[Nac]

I did, my HP monitor set right next to the TV when I played it, and after comparing them both you have to be a really big fanboy to think it was 100% on. In the words of Bond himself, "Close, but no cigar."

[avengers1978]

Did not say 100% said it was pretty damn close.

[Tyre]

@Ju it's the other way around Microsoft had this in mind for promoting the 360, DX-11 and everything MS in general, ATI just followed through with what they were contracted to do. All New PC Graphics cards are based on the architecture of the 360. and for all ya Cell fans...Dave Shippy(head of IBM chip development and designer of both the Cell AND the Xenos) said that the Xenos architecture is based on the Cell and developed later than the Famous Cell so in fact it's younger than the Cell=making the 360 a more modern console than the PS3.

[Ju]

(Well, you know, there is a reply button. Just FYI.)

Well, I can well believe that MS asked ATI "to come up with something creative" (I doubt they asked for "tessellation" explicitly, I guess that's an ATI thing). But, even if so, I raise the question, if that was such an important feature, why did nobody use it until now and why did MS in all these years never use it to promote the 360's superiority over the PS3 ? Doesn't that sound strange to you?

Fact is, the tessellator in the 360 is a prototype. Nobody knows if it even works. It might support higher throughput, and possibly will. It's a nice feature and I really hope game developers (and/or M$) have figured out how to use it effectively, now. They will need all the power they can get out of that box to stay competitive.

The other fact is, even though ATI built some form of HW tessellation in all ATI chips since the release of the 360, not a single one can be used with DX11 until full DX11 chips hit the market (might be political to not give NVidia the feeling they got an disadvantage, who knows).

And, back on topic, read that Eurogamer analysis if you still think this is rendered realtime. That might change your mind.

[avengers1978]

There was no gameplay footage the whole thing was a cutscene, and it was not that impressive. Impressive for the 360 yes, but overall no. And if that is the new engine, sorry bots looks like they will be pushing out new hardware faster than expected.
Was not even the best trailer of the night, Starwars force unleashed 2, New medal of honor, Spec ops the line, and even the little Batman Arkhan Asylum trailer was better, looked better too.

[Condemnedman]

Please don't borrow the controls of Killzone . they are effing annoying

[avengers1978]

This game is supposed to be the next big step for Microsoft, but it looks like the same games they were coming out with two years ago. They did not even show game play footage, and right now it appears that the bots are coming out in force to defend this trailer.
They want to believe that this trailer looked better than anything that they have ever seen, but it was not even the most impressive game footage at the VGA's; Spec OPs The Line, New Medal of Honor, Starwars Force Unleashed2, and Batman Arkham Asylum 2, were all more impressive.

[Dacapn]

I must be missing something. I've watched the vid in HD four times now, and I don't see how people are claiming a graphical victory over KZ2. I see better lighting and character models than Halo 3, but that's it. That new EVE game looks better than this, and even it isn't at KZ2 level.

Someone explain, cuz I'm thoroughly confused.

[Condemnedman]

No one is claiming that and if they are , how? we have only seen a trailer . For all Killzone graphics splendor the game was not that special .

[gumgum99]

No one is claiming that and if they are , how? we have only seen a trailer . For all Killzone graphics splendor the game was not that special . ^_^

[Rowsdower]

when there is nothing to lose

of the 2 million plus who purchased Killzone 2 any one you play with a mic, cause I like the game and when ever I play it is quiet as hell.

My psn id is:

Rowsdower1979

oh yeah I cant wait to see gameplay footage of Halo Reach

see its possible to enjoy and anticipate both, its also sexy

[dj55555555]

I dont think anyone will say the 360 cant produce these graphics its more about how will they fit HQ textures and a large environment on a DVD?

[jdktech2010]

compress it??? Just a thought

[fadeawayjae]

Check these images out remind you this is OFF SCREEN from Killzone 2. Look at the Blood effects, Ground textures, Lighting, and Hi Res Gun Models. This is a game that BLEW MY MIND!

[Gameplay999]

Who cares really... It will look better than Halo 3 and thats enough. I am sure it will be more colorful than KZII was but then again that is Killzone II and this is Halo, two completely different themes.

[sleewok]

Character models look similar to Killzone, but environmental effects and lighting don't even come close. The xbox simply won't be able to match what the PS3 can do in-game (during actual gameplay). With the ability to offload processes (physics, post-effects, etc) to the SPUs the PS3 has the advantage.

[Gameplay999]

And, how will that make Halo: Reach not a good game?
I believe that fans of the Halo series will focus on, as my name implies: Gameplay. It doesnt matter what X and Y are capable of, all that matters is that X and Y deliver great gaming experiences. Halo will never be like KZ and KZ will never be like Halo... so why the comparisons?
I do believe that Halo will be more colorful, and have better art direction than KZII's dark, gritty, and gray world.