Epic win: Jury decides Google has illegal monopoly in app store fight

Three years after Fortnite-maker Epic Games sued Apple and Google for allegedly running illegal app store monopolies, Epic has a win. The jury in Epic v. Google has just delivered its verdict — and it found that Google turned its Google Play app store and Google Play Billing service into an illegal monopoly.

[gold_drake]

oooo shiiiit
well, there ya go

but i think the biggest issue are the judges in these cases.
most of them have no clue about all them things.

ii wonder what the judge will decide Epic actually "won" or what the out come is.

[Petebloodyonion]

Why are you saying the judge have no cases?
I think the judges shows lots of clairity that in a duality market (APPLE and Android) there's no competition when both are already agreeing on the price.
Do you think there would be deals if Wallmart was the only store where you could buy food?
How would the argument of "but there's competition between Cookies and cereal brands" would hold up when Wallmart could decide that each provider must pay a 30% comission just to display product in store?

There's already tons od laws to make sure that there's not only 1 physical store brand and that store owners can't be in cahoot with competition in order to fix price so why would this be different for Virtual storefront?

[gold_drake]

i didnt say that.
read properly next time.

and the digital market is more complex than supernarkets.

[Einhander1972]

"Do you think there would be deals if Wallmart was the only store where you could buy food?"

This isn't even the same types of argument, you have a variety of different devices you can get content on, like Apple pr Google or PC or consoles, all these things plus more compete with each other.

The only winner in this decision are Epic, Microsoft and other people who are already rich. All these greedy companies are using the law to steal profits from each other and it's going to be the consumers who pay more.

All these devices we use are heavily subsidized by the profits these platform holders make from selling peoples products. If you think Epic is going to start charging less for their MTX now or whatever your crazy, consumers are not going to get anything back from the winners here. All consumers get is the privilege to pay more for devices.

Edit:

"Wallmart could decide that each provider must pay a 30% comission just to display product in store?"

Walmart does take a cut of every sale in their stores....thats how they make money. They also sell shelf space, the products that are are in the center instead of the top or the bottom pay to be there and to have higher visibility and easier access. They also sell access because obviously they don't have enough space for every brands products.

Using your Walmart analogy, how long do you think Walmart would stay in business if they just let anyone walk into their store and sell things without helping to pay for the upkeep of the stores and other costs? They wouldn't that's why things don't work like that.

That is what Epic wants, they want to use these devices with out paying to help maintain them.

[Petebloodyonion]

@Gold _Drake
Sorry bad writting from my part I meant to say Why do you think Judges have no clues?

@Einhander1972
Last I checked tons of small developpers and consummer association complained about the 30% tax cut that Sony Steam, Google, Apple are charging so why do you say only Epic benefit from that decisision is beyond me. Heck I recall this article making the headline recently
https://www.gamesindustry.b...

As for Walmart Upkeep, I would like to remind you that it's Wallmart and other store who need to cut in THEIR profit margin if they want to match price seen in other stores and not the other way around like in the digital market where Game publisher must sign price parity clause to please Google, Apple, Valve and Sony
https://www.linklaters.com/...
https://www.ign.com/article...

[Extermin8or3_]

Thst isn the issue here. Thr issue ws the secret deals Google was doing to lower its cut for certain big apps publishers and only them and the fact that a requiremenf for said deals was nof helping epic games sefup its own mobile store.

[Einhander1972]

"Last I checked tons of small developpers and consummer association complained about the 30% tax cut that Sony Steam, Google, Apple are charging so why do you say only Epic benefit from that decisision is beyond me. Heck I recall this article making the headline recent"

Yes, yeah developers and other people who are selling things to you may benefit but the main benefit is these large companies who want to bypass fees.

But at the end of the day they are not going to start charging you less, they are going to charge the same but get more profits.

And the link you posted about the case against Sony is filed by Alex Neil a certified con artist who doesn't care about consumers they just want a huge personal payout.

And as for parity clauses again the money is going to come from the consumers one way or another, these people are fighting to take each others profits, if the parity clauses are blocked we'll pay more for hardware.

The idea that any of these changes are going to make things cheaper for the consumer are a joke, the only thing that changes is who gets the profits.

And as for Walmart, you missed what I was saying Walmart may lower the price on an item but they just charge the manufacturer of that item more to stock it on the shelves.

In some ways the digital stores are better because they don't charge an upfront fee to put an item on the store they instead charge a fee per sale. Which if they have to reduce the fee that charge for sales they would likely recoup that money by charging a fee to sell something on the ap store. Which also would benefit the rich companies over small developers who would be able to pay upfront fees that smaller developers may not.

Which is the reason Walmart only stocks the major brands and not a bunch of start up small brands, because the major brands can pay for shelf space.

[1Victor]

Don’t hold your breath yet there’s a long road ahead with the appeals process then the Supreme Court will have the last words and I don’t see this court going against the big corporations earnings.

I’m been known to be wrong some times and truly hope I am on this one

[anast]

The pot has been stirred.

[Einhander1972]

This is terrible news for consumers, while Epic and others get richer we'll now have to pay more for our devices.

[ChasterMies]

How? Android phones like Samsung Galaxy are not subsidized by purchases from Google Play Store. And Google can’t quit on Android because of how much money Google makes from Google search on Android.

[Einhander1972]

Google pays Samsung billions to have their store on Samsung phones.

Samsung also offers it's own store.

[neutralgamer1992]

Einhander1972

samsung has it's own store but how many know about that store? its like comparing MS store to other well known stores

[GamerRN]

So does this mean Apple also has a monopoly?

[Plague-Doctor27]

No. The cases argued were different.

Epic sued Apple for a monopoly over iOS. Apple said iOS competes with Android, MS, Nintendo, Sony, etc for Fortnite. Therefore there is market competition and no monopoly. The judges agreed.

Epic sued Google over a monopoly on android devices. Because Google was found to have shady deals preventing phone manufacturers from putting competing stores on phones as a default app, among other shady dealings, they found google has a monopoly on android marketplaces specifically.

Basically, Apple being a walled garden actually kind of protected them

[ChasterMies]

Android isn’t a walled garden tied to hardware like iOS. Android is like Windows or Linux for PCs. Any phone manufacturer can use Android and any seller can have their own store on Android. But Google used its muscle to tie up 90% marketshare for apps on Android. That’s monopolistic behavior.

[Hofstaderman]

Phil and slimey company sitting up and plotting.... expect to hear how Sony is anti-gamer for refusing to have GamePass on their ecosystems they may very well do this to avoid 2027 . I can imagine his email to Satya...."we got them" lol.

[Petebloodyonion]

It's a good thing that regulations starts investigating and pushing for the same kind of rules as physical stores.
I don't see how ppl can't understand that this has to stop.
Just picture the riot on N4g if MS was able to run WIndows the same way, GOOGLE, Apple and Sony are running their platform.
Like : All PC programs, games, apps must be sold thru the WINDOWS store only like PSN
Any programs made for WIndows would have dev pay a 30% price cut with a clause stating that if said publisher make the same program on MAC OS and Linux the publisher must match price with Windows.

Should this be ok?
Would ppl says it's ok you can just pick MAC OS or Linux?

[Eonjay]

"Just picture the riot on N4g if MS was able to run WIndows the same way, GOOGLE, Apple and Sony are running their platform."

You mean the way MS runs its own stores?

[Petebloodyonion]

Is MS running Valve's Steam storefront for Windows's PC game?
Is MS running Epic Game store Front for Window's PC game?
IS MS running EA, Ubisoft, Humble Bundle, Fanatical, G2A, CD Keys, GOG, Prime Gaming, etc.store front for WINDOW's PC game.

On the other hand please tell me where I can buy a digitial code for God of War Ragnarok for PS5 aside PSN Store?
Perhaps you can tell me where I can purchase Iphone applications aside the Applestore?

So yeah MS can run THEIR store with their rule but they are forced to allow third party digital distribution platform despite owning the OS that software is mode for(Window).
Why can't this rule applies for Platform like Playstation OS, Android OS, MAC OS? and how the consumer lose when it's clear that there's a benefit with multiple storefront on PC?

[tagzskie]

@petebloody I only buy my codes to g2a so i dont know other store but i can buy gow ragnarok there, you can also buy spiderman 2.. If i search other store i know theres other store you can buy ps game code. So for now i can buy ragnarok in psn and g2a with a simple search.

[Petebloodyonion]

@Tagzkie
You can only buy European code for GOD of War (Ps5) on G2a since Sony removed the ability to buy code from all storefronts.
Unfortunately, I'm not in Europe unless I open a European account.

[Christopher]

You're mixing closed platform tied to specific hardware with open platform tied to many manufactured hardware elements. Microsoft has both an open platform (Windows) and a closed platform (Xbox). It does the same thing as other closed platforms. There should be zero argument in this that makes it as if MS isn't doing what others are doing.

The _only_ reason MS isn't doing the same thing on Windows, btw, is because they went to court and lost the element of a closed platform tied to hardware because they weren't making/specifying the hardware. Samsung and similar hardware manufacturers choose to go with a closed Google store for their hardware, but they could also have their own. It's just really hard to do that when Android exists and iOS says 'no'.

[Petebloodyonion]

And how Android (IOS) is a more closed platform compared to Windows when you can basically buy a laptop or a tablet runing Android OS on it?
And just as you point out, the only reason MS is doing the same is because they went to court and lost
So please tell me where the consumer lost by having MS lost that case and how it would be a detriment to consumers in the case that Sony, Apple, Google, etc would be forced to allow third party digital distribution platform in a similar fashion?

As I often mentioned I can buy a physical copies of GOD of War Ragnarok at several stores yet I can only by a digital copie from one place.

[Christopher]

@pete: I didn't say anything about Android being more open. I only wanted to correct you in defending Microsoft as if they aren't moving towards their own closed systems (Xbox stores and subscription models).

[FGHFGHFGH]

@Petebloodyonion

Ms tried to do the same thing with UWP. All games made with UWP would've only been able to update from Windows store.(that includes dlc) It's just that no one wanted to use UWP or windows store.

https://www.forbes.com/site...

[Petebloodyonion]

@Christopher

Did I try to defend MS?
I only pointed out that if MS were doing the same with Windows as Google is doing with Android ppl would riot with good reasons.
but suddenly since this judgment is striking against Android for the same reasons as Windows it's a bad call with judges not having clues.

@FGHFGFGH
And also recall ppl basically complaining about UWP for the exact reasons that you mentioned and now MS is selling their games on Steam and the Windows Store.
Pretty sure that this is a better scenario for consumers versus being forced to use UWP
so again
here's the question that nobody here wants to answer How is Google losing bad for the consumer?

[Sephiroushin]

oh what they actually wanted to do to take valve out of business on 2012 on an open platform, open and closed platform works different fyi

[tagzskie]

@petebloody no youre just uninformed. heres the link for us god of war ragnarok

https://www.g2a.com/god-of-...

heres for spiderman
https://www.g2a.com/marvels...

i didnt link it in my first message because its troublesome for me. Im that lazy i thouught youre gonna search it youre self..

[jznrpg]

F this crap. Kids are exposed to enough ads as it is.

[Christopher]

***In a post on its company blog, Epic Games said, “Today’s verdict is a win for all app developers and consumers around the world. It proves that Google’s app store practices are illegal and they abuse their monopoly to extract exorbitant fees, stifle competition and reduce innovation.”***

This isn't a win for consumers. Consumers will pay the same as always. Epic will just be able to claim all the money rather than 30% going to Google. Epic won't be lowering prices because of this win, those prices have already been determined optimal for their metrics of what people will pay versus what they won't.