Mirror's Edge achievement designer: "Achievements have been bad for gaming"

Ubisoft Massive lead gameplay designer Fredrik Thylander, previously of DICE where he worked on Battlefield and Mirror's Edge, has spoken out about achievements and trophies, arguing that they "have been bad for gaming."

[Machina]

The achievements in Mirror's Edge opened my eyes to a whole other way of approaching the game. Since some of the toughest and most rewarding ones are basically whole levels turned into time trials with very strict time requirements, they force you to become much better at the game - in a way that difficulty levels just don't - and made me appreciate the mechanics that much more (especially the momentum-based running and platforming).

They actually made the game better for those like me who really enjoyed the game but wanted more of it, basically adding a new level of difficulty that took a long time to master/overcome. It added some extra longevity to a very short game.

He says "it eats resources that could have made the game better". I'm curious what he thinks the time he spent designing the achievements for the game would've been better spent on, because I expect bang for buck-wise achievements are a pretty efficient way of adding value to a game for the people who end up loving it.

[shinoff2183]

I kinda see his point but I also see your point.

I've been trying to remember what games over the years have had their own trophies inside the game before trophies and such were a thing and all I can think of is the star ocean series

[Christopher]

I think his point, though not elucidated upon because of Twitter limitations, is not that they can be bad but that they are used improperly to extend gameplay rather than reward actions.

[Nebaku]

Harvest Moon: Magical Melody on the GCN did.

In fact it actually built the game around it.

[RpgSama]

I am very OCD about playing games that I can platinum, in that sense I probably avoided playing games that I knew I would be unable to 100% complete.

I do think there are other people like me and also feel there should be an option for you to individually deactivate getting trophies on specific games, just so you play them and they do not go to your account.

[-Foxtrot]

I don't know. I used to think Achievements / Trophies were ruining games at first but then I saw the positive, if you totally love a game then they would offer you replay value by going after the last achievements to 100% the game. It made you explore every last bit of the game to achieve this and sometimes pushed you into areas or scenarios you probably might have missed.

It was a blast to get them on Oblivion / Skyrim, Fallout, Witcher, God of War, Elden Ring etc

Don't get me wrong, I do think there's achievements which are annoying, the ones where you need to find all collectibles which end up being missable AND are like trying to find a needle in a haystack are a kick to the balls, you know the majority of us are just going to use a guide to find them so what's the point.

Kind of a shame Nintendo haven't gotten a full system in place, they are so behind.

[jambola]

Nintendo seem to either be ahead of their time by years
or behind by 10 years
no in between

[Rimeskeem]

I enjoy having something to go for and feeling accomplished when doing something hard. I just hate it when achievements are based on things you can't really control. Like when something is for MP and the MP is just dead.

[MadLad]

I used to be a hardcore achievement hunter back in the day, but I couldn't care less nowadays. I just want to play games the way I actually want to play them, and don't care to waste my time just to get a little pop-up.

[AzubuFrost]

I envy you sir. I just gotta have every single achievement whenever I play a game. On my Steam profile I have an 83% completion rate out of 35 games, and my OCD is telling me to keep upping that percentage higher.

[MadLad]

Yeah. Back then, though I'm not sure what my actual completion rate was, I was mainly an Xbox player. I had close to 80k gamer score during the 360 days.

It just doesn't excite me anymore. I have less than 20% completion on my Steam account, though I have a pretty asinine amount of games there at the same time.
But I don't really bother with any of this anymore. If there's an interesting achievement I might aim for it just because I find it fun, but usually I just get that pop-up, say "cool" and continue with the game.

[Outlawzz]

Never been a fan of achievements. I just want to play the game however it may present itself to me, there's an overflow of achievements to seek in real life lol

Great for those that enjoy them though, much respect to the platinum hunters, it ain't easy lol

[lonewolf10]

Same as

[GhostScholar]

I couldn’t disagree more. I don’t know that I’d even be playing games still without achievements/trophies. It added such a fun and satisfying element to gaming for me/

[2moda5gamer]

I think most gamers - casual to semi-casual don't care about achievements/ trophies. That why there's a lot more "progress" style ones (eg beating a stage or boss) that can give a marker on how long an customer is keeping engaged.

As for myself, most the time I couldn't care less but if a game really draws me in then I'm all in, such as Tsushima, Elden Ring or FF7R.

I do seem them often as just a time sink though, just a slightly more engaging thing than a fetch quest.

[porkChop]

It depends on how they're used. Most devs don't put much thought into them. Sometimes devs use them to reward the player for thinking outside the box and I think that's the right way to do it.

[senorfartcushion]

That’s true. It’s probably why a lot of Nintendo games still have a classical feel.

I turned them off when I played The Last of Us on PlayStation 3 and it ultimately added to the experienced.

I felt the same sensibility as when I was a kid but because of my younger age and the subject matter, it felt like I was playing an interactive novel.

[CrimsonWing69]

I do feel like achievements/trophies have ruined games if you’re a completionist like myself. What I mean by that is if I can’t 100% the game then I get frustrated and won’t finish it or if I see the achievements/trophies are impossible to get I don’t want to play the game (with some exceptions). That’s probably more the extreme side of things, but for some reason if I don’t get the 1000/Platinum I don’t consider the game to have been completed.

One example is the jump rope trophy in Final Fantasy 9. I spent hours and hours trying to get it and couldn’t. I was so frustrated that I just gave up on the game. Had that not been a trophy I’d have just moved on, but the fact that I can’t get it ruined the game for me. It’s like I don’t want to dump all this time into something and not be able to 190% it. It’s definitely a mental thing for me.

[P_Bomb]

Diggin’ em. Have done things I wouldn’t normally have done, seen things I wouldn’t otherwise have seen, and I have a diary of it all. I don’t know about Mirror’s Edge, but Elden Ring justified them. Happy platinum.

[Thundercat77]

I don't pay attention to them. If I won the trophy, fine and nice, but me looking at the list in order to know how to win a trophy? Naaaa

[Flawlessmic]

Only have 4 platinum out of 100s and 100s of games played.

I don't mind most trophies but each games always has a handful of dumb collectibles or things that are absolute chores or just straight padding that are required to he done.

So I agree with him for the most part.

If trophies were implemented for difficulties, finishing the game and stuff that is actually fun to do then yea they'd be great, but getting platinum always require monotonous tasks.

The 2 spider man games, Rachel and clank and astro both are the 4 I have and all 4 of those were enjoyable the whole way through, nothing annoying at all.

Exception would spider man 1 neighbour hood crimes for each district which was a pain but still easy and fun.

[Father__Merrin]

Cheevos give replay value. And sense of accomplishment

[isarai]

I mean he's not wrong, pretty much the sole reason cheats dont exist anymore, or they are overcomplicated. Also devs use them as a poor excuse for "content". Collect 100 things and what's your reward? A trophy 😒.

[andy85]

Personally I love them. When I get all the trophies it makes me feel I've gotten true value out of a game and seen most of what it has to offer. Online trophies can die though

[gold_drake]

i disagree, they keep you playing the game longer most of the time.

[Crows90]

Achievements should unlock things in game.

[TheColbertinator]

I cared for them at one point but then I had no time to collect 100 of those or finish this track under 23 seconds anymore.

I just want a fun game from the go. If the tutorial is long then at least I want the game to be interesting.

[EazyC]

I love extremely random/difficult trophies.

I will say it time and time again, the online trophies in GT Sport kept me coming back to that game for THREE years, and it was very sparse on content technically.

Banal trophies for completing missions are kinda lame though

[UncertainCategory]

To each to their own, I kind of like having a meta progression system for my games. I really don't get the impression that they are such a difficult or detrimental system to put in games.. In fact I think a lot of games just kind of phone them in. But some are really creative and add to the experience by encouraging and rewarding challenging ways to play through the game.

I don't agree with this take, they have only made my gaming experience more fun, and create a log of my achievements in games I've played. It's fun to look back over the years.

[Orchard]

Hard disagree. Simply put, I like getting achievements/trophies.

[jznrpg]

I disagree . I like achievements . I don’t chase them and only platinum games I really enjoy and want to keep playing . Maybe it’s bad for some but for me I like them .

[OmegaSoldati]

Agree. " it eats resources that could have made the game better".