Why I stopped loving JRPGs

JRPGs used to be Erik Twice's favourite genre. He played and loved all the classics, from Final Fantasy to Chrono Trigger. But he no longer does. In this article, he explains his disappointment with the genre and what they can do to improve.

[naruga]

...because they became crap over the time that s why.......back in late 80s 90s ..the guys who were making games (therefore JRPGs ) were talented people coming from Art academies, music academies (unrelated to games) or various other jobs that needed to have higher education and they were assuming multiple roles in the development of a game (they were artists ,directors and programmers simultaneously) ...now most of the developers come from specific "game developping "schools or game art schools with minimal higher education and games getting poorer and poorer (from many perspectives (art , writing , gameplay) ...for example Kojima , shinji mikami , Miyazaki , Sagakuchi were all unrelated to games but had higher level of education with University degrees , that s why managed to become legendary directors as their views in game making was catholic and not sterille ....in contrast game makers like Kamiya (he started the downfall of RE2) Jun takeuchi were second generation developers with minimal education in academic things except computer graphics ...that s why compeltely destroyed whole game IPs

.Jrpgs followed the pattern also , ending to be tons of them but not even one artisantly made like the old FFs or Suikoden etcetc...the same happened to most games genres

[tontontam0]

That's top grade weaboo knowledge.

[Kingthrash360]

All I gotta say is....persona 5

Also, articles like this is why I barely read gaming articles anymore. This simply exists for clicks.

[Shinox]

Of course you would have to say that, you don't have that "weeb" knowledge to even discuss about gaming let alone knowing about the current state of the Japanese gaming industry .. get in his level or stay a worthless ignorant filthy casual like the idiots who agree with you

[DrumBeat]

I don't think I've played a true JRPG since the Lunar games on Sega CD. Goddamn, that was a long time ago.

[meatnormous]

I played the lunar games as well. Eternal blue was amazing

[ChrisW]

I stopped playing (or enjoying) them at about the time the Dreamcast died... Not that I didn't try...

As to why? It's pretty much the same reason why I no longer enjoy new Anime. They are so cliche, almost to the point of a trope, and the formula has almost never changed... And anything that was changed or new, wasn't enough to keep my interest from waning. Even Japanese dramas aren't anything new these days. In fact most of them are based on popular drama manga, which follow the same cliches.

IMO, the 90s was the end of the pinnacle for Japan when it comes to story telling...

[mav805]

The Lunar games are two of my favorites. Love the characters, music and one of the best villains in all of gaming.

As far as the quality of current jrpgs, Persona 5 came out 2 years ago and is my favorite game of all time.

[SegaSaturn669]

We see some great gems pop up. Bravely Default comes to mind. A lot can go wrong. I couldn't believe how bad ff4: The After Years was. Played like bad fanfiction.

[The 10th Rider]

Yeah, I think most JRPG developersmoved to handhelds. Both Nintendo and Don't handhelds got some awesome JRPGs.

[piroh]

Ni no kuni 2 and Dragon quest 11 are great too

[The 10th Rider]

Ooph, Sony auto corrected to don't for me there. I must have hit a wrong key.

@piroh,

Yeah, now that the DS line and Sony handhelds are done for, we're starting to see a lot more great JRPGs back on home consoles again.

[ShinRon]

undertale counts as a jrpg right? it was amazing

[Kingthrash360]

I mean you had the answer inside of the question bro.....get you gaming knowledge up.

[ShinRon]

i dont see how the answer is in the question... the game is the exact same style as a jrpg like dragon warrior or earthbound.

with the disagrees im guessing it not considered an rpg

[capjacksparrow]

It's not a jrpg if it isn't Japanese. It may have jrpg style, but it can't be considered one. Man, I hated that game. Thought it was one of the most overrated things I've played.

[SegaSaturn669]

I enjoyed the Undertale soundtrack more than the game itself. It was funny enough but the gameplay is stale and uninviting once you see the endings.

[Gamist2dot0]

Are Bloodborne and Nioh considered JRPG? Because I like them; story and game play especially BB.Then there's Dragon's Crown which I started but need to get back and finish it.

[luckytrouble]

Not at all. JRPG specifically refers to turn based RPGs that were popularized by Japanese game developers in the 80s and 90s. They are focused on fantasy almost always, have a defined level up progression system (in a levels are more important than outright skill kind of way), and they usually abide by similar story telling tropes such as the final boss threatening the end of the world and stuff like that.

Bloodborne and Nioh are both great games, but they're more action games with RPG elements. In both the games, levels certainly help, but in the end skill can carry you without ever playing into the RPG elements if you're good enough. Even if the RPG elements were necessary, it would be more a J-ARPG or just ARPG. Silly desiginations generally, but neither would be a JRPG as they're classically defined.

[Man_Among_Mice]

@luckytrouble

Actually JRPGs are literally just RPGs made in Japan. Nowhere in a description of what a JRPG is will you find that it needs to be turn based, just made in Japan. There's really no other distinction than that. Just because they all followed the same formula in the past doesn't mean that's what makes them a JRPG. If we followed your specific definition then Kingdom Hearts or FFXV wouldn't even be considered a JRPG when everyone would agree that they are. So yeah, Bloodborne and NIoh can easily be considerd JRPGs, even though they are more action oriented.

[BlaqMagiq1]

Umm what? JRPG has NEVER been considered a genre. Ever. A JRPG has ALWAYS been a distinction of where an RPG comes from. And that is where? Japan. Action RPG is a genre. And guess what? Action RPGs can also be JRPGs. Just because it's not turn-based or a traditional level up system does not make it not a JRPG. I'm going against the grain? No I'm just speaking the truth. Stop twisting the idea of what a JRPG is to fit your argument.

[BlaqMagiq1]

Yes they are JRPGs. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If it's an RPG and made by a Japanese developer it is a JRPG. Plain and simple.

[luckytrouble]

Imagine reading the article or what's actually meant by JRPG. But your against the grain method of opinion making is surely popular, so keep at it.

[Chaos_Order]

No.

JRPG is a genre. Genres are there to define the type of experience, its inspiration, and what you can expect, not the country where it was developed. With that logic, every restaurant within 100 miles of my town is an English restaurant. They serve ramen? Donburi? Udon? No, sorry, the restaurant is in England and the people who made it are English, therefore it is English food.
Even the term "role playing game" could relate to just about anything. I mean, in Super Mario I'm "playing the role" of Mario, so therefore it must be a role playing game. But it's not, because that term has gained connotations beyond the literal meanings of those words. The same goes for JRPG. Bloodborne would be best described as an ARPG or WRPG with some Japanese influences. Made by Japanese devs in Japan, not a JRPG.

[BlaqMagiq1]

@ChaosOrder

"JRPG is a genre. Genres are there to define the type of experience, its inspiration, and what you can expect, not the country where it was developed. With that logic, every restaurant within 100 miles of my town is an English restaurant. They serve ramen? Donburi? Udon? No, sorry, the restaurant is in England and the people who made it are English, therefore it is English food."

Umm this makes literally no sense. If anything you just strengthened my point. Even if they served Japanese food, it would STILL be considered an English restaurant regardless. Having influences of something doesn't change what it really is.

"Even the term "role playing game" could relate to just about anything. I mean, in Super Mario I'm "playing the role" of Mario, so therefore it must be a role playing game. But it's not, because that term has gained connotations beyond the literal meanings of those words. The same goes for JRPG. Bloodborne would be best described as an ARPG or WRPG with some Japanese influences. Made by Japanese devs in Japan, not a JRPG."

And your comparison of Super Mario makes no sense either. In the Super Mario traditional games, they are considered PLATFORMERS, never once were they specified as an RPG. In Super Mario RPG it literally plays like a role-playing game and it's from Japan. It is considered a JRPG. The genre "role-playing game" was established a long time ago. Now you're trying to twist the meaning that was established just to fit your argument. Again influences does not stop a game from being JRPG. Bloodborne and Nioh are action RPGs that can still considered be JRPGs. Action RPG is a genre, JRPG is not. With your logic I guess Kingdom Hearts and FFXV aren't JRPGs anymore, but I guarantee most people will disagree with you on that one. Also with your logic, Child of Light is considered a JRPG when it's clearly not one. JRPG has NEVER been a genre. It's literally a distinction for where a RPG is made.

[ginganinja]

Ask what a JRPG is and you'll get as many different definitions as you get answers. Which indicates there isn't a definitive answer.
I'm of the 'if it's an RPG made in Japan, then it's a JRPG' school of thought.
Though, as a term, I think it's becoming fairly redundant as gaming has evolved since it was first termed.

[Chaos_Order]

That's a good point actually, not everyone will agree because everyone considers the term in their own way. In other mediums though it tends to be the opposite, for example in tabletop gaming the term "Euro game" was coined, and generally relates as games that include resource management, "cube pushing" and token trading. (It is rather difficult to define) The term was popularised with games like Puerto Rico and other games made by European developers, but since then more have joined the fray, so that "Euro game" does not mean "a game made by Europeans." Then you have dungeon crawlers that... Aren't set in a dungeon and games set in a dungeon that... Aren't considered dungeon crawlers. Then there are other terms like "Ameritrash" which can include games made by Americans but not always, and 18XX which includes 1829 and 1830 but also other railway building games. In my opinion a descriptive term does its job when you hear it and immediately know what to expect. A lot of people hate the term "walking simulator" as it sounds like a derogatory term, but personally I think it does its job. You hear "walking simulator" and immediately know what to expect. "Interactive storytelling adventure" could mean a whole bunch of things.

But that's just my take.

[Shinox]

That doesn'r need a definitions or an answer you idiots :
JRPG = Japanese - R O L E - Playing Games
get your head out of your asses and learn gaming for once you worthless ignorant filthy casuals

[Godmars290]

Because they've become too commercialized. Too focused on medieval/fantasy settings that feature J-pop themed loli characters.

Would love to see something futuristic/sci-fi w/non-human characters to interact with.

[NecrumOddBoy]

Like FF XIII? Star Ocean? Phantasy Star?

Or more like The Outer Worlds and Cyberpunk 2077?

[Godmars290]

"Like FF XIII"

Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha...

And Star Ocean is more fantasy with sci-fi trimming where Phantasy Star hasn't been an RPG, and that "J"RPG so don't know why you even bothered with Western titles, since going online. Not that I'm trying to dis them.

[Shinox]

Why mention XIII specifically .. yikes >_>

[NapalmSanctuary]

I actually think FF needs to go back to its medieval fantasy roots. You are right about the cliches, though. Sakaguchi was always good at creating great characters that were easy to get invested in.

[CorndogBurglar]

I would be okay with FF going back to its medieval roots. But at the same time I feel like FF should be i different setting each time. For example, it shouldn't always be medieval. Or any one type of setting.

But I must say, something that felt really weird to me is the setting of FF15. Just the modern timeline with cars and all that? It just seemed so.....un-FF.

[NapalmSanctuary]

Yeah, FF15 was a weird one, for all the wrong reasons.

[shinoff2183]

FF imo just needs to go back to old school with maybe just better graphics. FF15 didnt seem very FF at all

[nitus10]

I take it you have not played Final Fantasy 4 onwards since they are not really medieval but a combination of Science Fantasy and Magic (medieval flavour if you want). After all, since when did a medieval game have things like air or even space ships?

Note: I have not played FF1 through 3 so I can't comment but I have played 4 through 13. I have FF15 but have not played it yet since I just recently got a 32" 4K monitor that supports HDR10 and even though I have a standard PS4 HDR10 is detected and works for certain games so I am replaying Horizon Zero Dawn.

BTW. A quick search for HDR PS4 supported games will show a pretty good list which does include FF15, HZD, and even "The Witcher 3".

[shinoff2183]

Try cosmic star. I dont agree with your main point but Id love more sci fi jrpg settings.

[Fist4achin]

To each their own as i think there are still great jrpgs coming out. Have you checked out Persona 5, Octopath Traveler, Dragon Quest XI, or Bloodborne to name a few?! Gamers tastes can change.

Now i feel like there are so many different types of rpgs out there and different genres have taken elements from rpgs that make gaming so great.

Oh well, i will keep on gaming my way!!!

[TheGamez100]

Its just the big boys like square that just dont make great jrpgs anymore. Many underrated/niche titles like trails, freedom wars, god eater. ys, neptunia, shin megami tensei, etc are amazing. Tons of great gems that people have missed on the 3ds, psp, and especially the vita. We've had great hits like persona 5, nier automota, dark souls, yakuza, ni no kuni, and so on and forth. Although I do admit that the jrpg genre is at an odd place nowadays.

[PoSTedUP]

sounds like he is sick of the grind. dragonquest 11. ill never get sick of jrpgs there are so many that i havent played. i dont care if it was made in 1930 im going back and playing it.

[TheColbertinator]

No genre of gaming stays your favorite forever and you should not expect it too.

I have not played an FPS seriously in 6 months apart from BF5 even though it is my second favorite genre. Did I "move on" from FPS? No. I just find the last 6 months of FPS games boring and they don't hold my attention. Maybe in the future a new Bioshock will come out and get me back into FPS but for right now... nope.

[PoSTedUP]

what have you been playing?

[TheColbertinator]

Chess and Total War Britannia.

[PoSTedUP]

nice. love chess. need a pc bc that games looks great like AOE2 back in the day.

[NapalmSanctuary]

Correction: No genre that gets played out. As long as one has a healthy variety of genres to bounce between, I find it pretty impossible to get sick of any of them.

[MoshA]

You have to cheat. Square Enix knew how badly designed FF games were for people with high standards who won't enjoy grinding because it is braindead and doesn't make you feel like you accomplished something. Emulate them at 2-4x speed or cheat.

[phoenixwing]

there's still top quality jrpg's being made the author of the article just seems to have changed what they enjoyed taste wise.

[Elda]

I'm the total opposite. I love JRPG's.

[Casepb]

I think Persona 5 is my all time favorite. Xenosaga trilogy is probably my second favorite now after the FF PS1 games. I really wish MS would remaster Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon.

[littletad]

I think Lost Odyssey was upgraded for the x, not sure on that. But I coulnd't get past the first two hours. I'm waiting on Eternal Sonata and praying for the Xenosaga trilogy lol

[CanadianTurtle]

JRPGs have stopped evolving as a genre. Back in the 80s and 90s, if you wanted a genre with great storytelling, you would turn to the JRPG genre. But nowadays, there are so many genres that do storytelling better than the average JRPG. Even action games nowadays (TLOU or Bioshock) have more believable characters than the average JRPG anime trope character.

[Tross]

There are still great JRPGs out there. Persona 5 is the most recent example I can think of. I agree that we’re out of the JRPG renaissance though. There just aren’t as many solid JRPGs that come to mind from the current gen as there were in gens past. But, they’re still around if you look hard enough.

[BlaqMagiq1]

I love JRPGs and I will never stop loving them. To me it is in the top 3 best genres in the industry right now.

[DafunkyRebel]

I highly recommend Dragon Quest 11, you’ll change your mind I promise. I felt the same just like you and nearly gave up entirely on JRPGs but DQ11 restore my faith cause it felt good to play, and you actually want to beat it unlike the past few hundred games of the genre that feels too open and boring after a while.

[manaxknight1]

Shining force is a great jrpg!

[jznrpg]

I love all rpg genres especially JRPGs and I have been playing them for over 30 years. Sure there is garbage out there but every genre has that. It would be nice if we went back to the golden age of Jrpgs and have more AAA stuff but we still get a Dragon Quest or Persona or something equivalent every year or so and lots of good smaller budget games . I mix in other genres during longer games to keep things from getting stale. It takes me a lot longer to finish games because of children and such but I don’t see myself ever quitting this genre or gaming until they don’t exist or my hands/eyes don’t function well enough

[shinoff2183]

I feel you there, with a family and kids and work. Im still playing dq11 since its release. Im fine with that Ive definitely got my 60 dollars out of it.

[nitus10]

You pay $60 (I assume you mean US dollars) for a game? With the exception of "The Witcher 3" and Bloodborne most games, I play on my PS4 cost me under $20 Australian or are free since I do have a PS+ subscription.

Since I prefer RPG's or their equivalent (Souls/Bourne) playtime per game is usually well over 40 hours discounting replays so I rarely purchase a new RPG day one.

[rainslacker]

I think that's the problem. We don't have the golden age anymore. There are certainly still good ones out there, although very few fall into the AAA class anymore. Those that are AAA tend to be different than what we had during the golden age as well. This leads to this belief that there just aren't any good ones anymore. I think a lot of people stopped looking at them as well. used to be, they'd always get a lot of attention, but now attention is divided among different genres, where some take the limelight. japan tends to have more press dedicated to them, and the western media in general tends to disregard them, and last gen they were almost anti-JRPG with some of their attitudes beacuse they felt they had to be like western games.

I'd prefer a new golden age of JRPG's, but i don't see it coming, because the media doesn't like them much anymore, and they don't sell as well in general as some other genres out there.

[RPGer]

JRPGs was always there, but you have to understand that JRPG is the standard in Japan, just exactly how the FPS is standard in the west. Whether we got sick of JRPG or FPS games, it will be always produced, because it is somewhat the easy and safe way to develop games. In westren developer thinking, FPS help to have fast paced action + far more less self-character and provide more immersion moments with short campaigns. On the other hand, Japanese developers like to provide much longer story and more specialization in character, so they ain't interesting in fast paced gameplay because that wont help long stories.

Of course there are exception especially with current technology. One of very best game I ever tried is Persona 5 which is in top there with The Witcher 3.

[PoSTedUP]

play P3 or P4 if you havent. they are all equally the best. unmissable imo even if you only like collecting stamps.

[CDbiggen]

Xenoblade Chonicles will re-ignite any love you had for the genre. The original that is. The second one, whilst still had me completely hooked and loving the world/story, had me hating the gameplay and grind.

[Gemmol]

I stop on consoles, I prefer taking them everywhere I go so they move to handheld for me

[Fraggle1987]

There's no doubt jrpgs are terrible compared to what they used to be. Most genres in gaming have gotten better over time but the jrpg is one of the few that never moved with the times.

[Father__Merrin]

last of the jrpg was during the ps360 era was a good few on wii also

[shinoff2183]

Theres a ton of good jrpgs out there. Imo the jrpg got lost and ruined during the ps3/360 era. Everyone was trying to westernize theres games. I enjoyed alot of games last gen but imo its one of the worst eras in my lifetime(im 37). This gen maybe not so much for xbox but ps4 has got some fantastic games between AAA and indies. I honestly think ps1 and ps4 will be my favorite generations so far and were not even finished with ps4

[Father__Merrin]

I dunno the ps360 wii era was by far the best generation for me I'm 42 now and I can recall being full on into gaming back then doing all the pre orders making sure everything is steel book etc. Had such a massive rpg collection wish they re released eternal sonata what a beautiful game

[lucian229]

I miss Valkyrie Profile; honestly what lead to the downfall of jrpgs was budget and 3d environments. They started to cut corners and visuals never really caught up unless it was a high budget. Japanese developers rarely instill enough budget into a game to make it great, even if the core is good. that's why the handhelds jrpgs were the last few good ones aside from some AAA ones.

I think ps2 was the limit of jrpgs. Ps3 era it trailed off.

[spambot0815]

modern jrpgs all suffer the same problem, so far there is no modern gameplay formular that is accepted by a majority of gamers as a fun replacement for the old round based formular.

[SilverDemon]

With the success of games like persona 5 and octopath traveler, I hope jrpg devs adapt this new focus of style over details

[spambot0815]

wouldn't call any of those 2 a success but ok.

[william_cade]

If JRPG means turned based, then I have moved on toward ARPG. How could they evolve? I would say move away from the anime style and into heavier and more mature themes. I think some are trying in different ways like Celeste (haven't playing it though, so not entirely sure), but for the most part, to me, the anime Final Fantasy style (story and graphic) has gotten old.

[nitus10]

There are three types of RPG styles out and they are "Turned Based" (TB), "Active Turn Based" (ATB) and "Action". Japanese RPG's support all three styles and have done so since the NES days. If you want some examples of an "Action" JRPG look at "Faxanadu" or even the original "Legend of Zelda" on the NES and there are plenty of others.

For your interest Final Fantasy games from 4 onward with a few exceptions support both TB and ATB. Games like Souls/Borne are Action.

As for Anime the art style and story depends on the writer/developers and can vary considerably from the graphics being so-called "cute" to almost photo-realistic with a story being anything from childish to pornographic.

BTW. I will agree that games graphically have gotten better but it would be wrong to compare as an example NES and/or Master System graphics to those of a modern PC or PS4/XB1 graphics. Personally, I do find that the so-called nostalgia of 8-bit graphics style for some modern games to be very annoying or (IMHO) lazy.

[william_cade]

Thanks for the info! I used to love TB RPGs but that's all we had.

[InMyOpinion]

South Park: The Fractured But Whole is the best classic RPG this gen imo. Some of you might not see it as a "serious" RPG, but it nails the story (unlike Kingdom Hearts 3 etc), the pacing, has one of the best turn-based combat systems ever (simple yet clever and not unnecessarily complex), Most of all it's heaps of fun to play.

[Father__Merrin]

Funnily enough I just bought the stick of truth £2.49 on CD keys. I hope it's a decent rpg

[FanboysKiller]

JRPGs used to compete with high profile games and nothing more than that. They are still great games anyway.

[Wotbot]

I’m only taking about console gaming here.

I believe other game genres started to deliver the same experience and connection as at one time only JRPG’s delivered, and without the turn based mechanic. The competition started to take the market as their games were evolving at a quicker rate and became hugely popular, JRPG were no longer the market leaders for gaming entertainment and experience.

[shinoff2183]

This article is kinda whack. Maybe the dude grew out of them period. I like many others still enjoy and prefer the old school jrpg. I prefer a traditional jrpg over some hack n slash action rpg. Ill take older ff over ff 15 any day. There are still some pretty cool jrpgs coming out. Earthlock was pretty dope and I just seen one on kickstarter called chained echos that looks cool so I plan on backing it for a physical copy on ps4.

[chiefJohn117]

Jrpgs never clicked with me

[kalkano]

For me, it's because they tried to stop being JRPGs, and tried to copy western games. I'm in it for the Turn-Based. So, when a series tries to abandon that and go action, I'm out.

But, even with the series' that stayed Turn-Based, they only gave them a shoestring budget, which also pushed me away. I don't need AAA, but it needs to at LEAST be mid-tier. The games do it right are stuff like Persona 5, Dragon Quest 11, and Trails of Cold Steel.

[harmny]

No diversity?

[RetroFaith]

That is a great article, very honest. I empathise with the notion of plodding along defeating wave after wave of nobodies. I am a huge RPG fan in general, J or otherwise, but if I am not gripped within the first few battles that lends itself to switching off quickly. The stories are very 'meh' for me, I do not play video games for engaging stories and it is very rare one will peak my interest. That being said stories are important to drive the 'reason' to play. I do enjoy the visual style of most JRPG's though and once in a while you get an awesome soundtrack, but if this is married with dull gameplay or move sets then that is redundant. The killer for me is usually a boring or obvious level up system that fails to deliver diversity to the character.