Why I’ll Never Buy Another Used Game (And Why You Shouldn’t, Either)

SlashGear writes: "Used video games have become a desirable purchase for many industry fans. With prices coming in at substantially lower amounts than new alternatives, it simply makes sense to many people to buy used titles. The more you save, the more products you can buy, right?"

[Godmars290]

Considering how little examples such as Gamestop "save" you when buying used, which nets them large profits while cutting out devs and publishers, I would be on the fence of this argument, if said publishers didn't try to counter this with DLC and DRM.

They've failed to speak up sooner so the only way they can respond is by offer a lesser product? Punish the people they're trying to tell to?

[SilentNegotiator]

I hate all of this anti-used nonsense for two reasons:

1) A game I can't resell (or sell WITH multiplayer access) automatically has half of its normal value. But they still charge $60.

2) It makes playing/starting a bigger hassle for new buyers, like myself.

[iJihaD]

" I can see the point you're trying to make, but I can't agree with your logic. "Used" sales have been around forever. Are you saying I shouldn't buy a used car because Ford doesn't get a percentage of that sale? Is it wrong for me to buy a used Macbook Pro because Apple won't see a dime? Where do you draw the line? " -By Adam Raymond

[poolsharky27]

@iJihaD

Theres one fallacy of that argument. Being that those products have a shelf-life. They die and/or become obsolete; people will have to buy replacements.

So Ford wont see a penny from that used car sale, but guess what; eventually that car will die and need to be replaced by a new one(either from the seller who needs a replacement, or the buyer after the used car dies). Same for the computer, it will become obsolete and a new one will replace it.

Games 'theoretically' have the potential to last forever, so one disc can span far more consumers than those other products.

Not saying I agree/disagree with used games sales, but when a used ford car gets sold, generally a new ford car gets bought in its place. When an FF13 used disc gets sold; a new FF13 disc isnt bought in its place.

[Saladfax]

@pool

Not to mention vehicle makers have numerous ways to recoup the losses, including manufacturing parts for repairs (and conducting the repairs themselves), as well as getting their own hands into the used market.

[pangitkqb]

I bought a Chair from a furniture store. I exchanged my money for their good. A year later I sold that chair at a yard sale. I didn't give any of the money I made re-selling that chair to the people that made and distributed it. Clearly I am screwing them over.

Oh wait...no, I'm not. I gave them money to make the chair my property. What was once their property is now mine, a financial exchange all parties agreed on. Why should I give them a part of the money if I then choose to sell my property to somebody else?

Totally ridiculous.

[Bimkoblerutso]

Also, people ALWAYS seem to automatically associate "used" games with Gamestop. It would eliminate ALL resale of games, whether it's through Gamestop or eBay or ANY private channel. So you don't technically own the game. Which is fine, honestly, but as far as costs and rights go, developers aren't treating the sale of their games as what they are: extended rentals.

As SilentNegotiator said, the price for a game should be AT LEAST half of what they're charging if they're not going to give us the full rights that we as consumers are afforded for actually owning a product.

[SuperStrokey1123]

What are you guys talking about? Devs have lots of ways to earn money from used game sales as well such as DLC and in game advertising in online matches and what not. Those make them money regardless of who pays for it.

Next games DO become obsolete. Sequels automatically make this happen, often when someone sells the first one its to buy the next one! So not only are used games promoting sales of new games but they are also exposing more people to the old game and maybe eccouraging that person to get the next game as well. All at no cost to the Dev.

[hotrider12]

@ poolsharky
until that car die out enjoy the usage and fun.
that is the purpose of used games. play,enjoy.be entertained til next new game of choice comes out.

[ilikestuff]

i agreed with silent negotiator

theres alot of games that after you play it or platinum it (if ur into doing the trophy thing) its pretty much not needed, i.e. i love the assassin's creed, i play just for the story, once i beat one I'm done i don't want it anymore, i should be able to sell it.

and if you're late to a console gen and you're playing catch up on all the great games how are you to find the older games new? and yea they could put the as downloadable games but what if u don't have the internet?

let us buy used games if we want

[Gaming101]

So what if retail outlets make a profit, someone went and willfully sold their game to that retail outlet, their was a demand that was sufficiently supplied. Just like used car retailers, Ford shouldn't complain when they don't get a piece of the pie from used cars. I should also be able to sell a game to my friend, or on ebay or kijiji, I have that right just like anything else I own, to be able to sell it to whoever I want.
To be against used games on principle means you have to be against all other used items, like cars, clothing, electronics, everything. Of course the games industry knew used games would be a factor of doing business, but so what? Go sell them electronically if you're so against the idea, and then noone can sell it used.

[ash_divine]

@Godmars

I almost see where you're coming from, but some of those counters are a direct result of the used game market(aswell as piracy, which really isn't even that different.)

DRM for example, would it exist if not for pirates and such?

If anything, DLC and DRM are reasons you should be against used game sales.(As they show the damage that the used game market has done to the industry.)

[BitbyDeath]

I hate to stick up for the devs cause i love getting rid of my old games but -

You cannot compare trading games with trading cars they are very different.

For one, Cars make money on a single purchase, games do not.

You should only be relating this to the likes of DVD's/Music/Blu-rays etc.

Now how many companies that you know who sell these items also sell used copies within the same store?

None. Nutta. Niche.

Yes you can find them at pawn brokers but that is far different from finding it at a major retail chain.

Try relating this to anything in the same vein and you will find only games do this. Devs/Publishers do have a reason to complain, it's much like how the bigger corporations lower their prices to squeeze out the lower ones.

It's gotta come to a stop eventually especially with game budgets rising in the near future (nextgen)

[BitbyDeath]

If you're going to disagree at least have the courtesy to say what you do not agree with.

Games do cost more than $60 to make.
If second hand games were only found at pawn brokers and not at every game store then i'm sure you'd see that devs won't give a damn just like the movie/music industry.

[Soldierone]

Actually the movie industry throws a fit about it all the time, but they took a different route. Rental companies and people selling used copies have to have a license to the movie to sell it. A rental company cannot sell rentail copies unless its passed a certain date and/or licensed by the company.

If you have music and movie stores open around you they DO sell used copies of both. music inudstry doesn't throw a fit because the record companies barely give any money to the artists anyways, and are the only ones profiting off the sales. The artists make money with concerts and merchandise, or selling the disc themselves.

The video game industry is basically being run just like those companies. the publishers are the ones throwing the fit, because they are the oens that bought the game to turn around and sell. So they want every last dime they can. When Gamestop reports they just made millions of dollars and these companies saw none of it, suddenly its an issue. They are not going to come out and say "we simply want that money in our wallets" no they have to have a PR make it seem like a problem so you jump on their side. "Oh we are going to go bankrupt if we don't get that money!"

Like I said before. You get rid of used games, they will complain about piracy like everyone else. You get rid of that and they will blame something else. They won't be happy will you go up to EA and buy an EA game from them and ALL that money goes into their pocket, period.

[BDSE]

The whole anti-used game argument is based on a faulty premise that one sale made to used is a sale lost to new. Point me to a study that has been conducted that shows that someone would buy a game new if used wasn't available. Used is a form of advertising, I bought the following used to see what they were like: Dead Space, Mass Effect, Resistance Fall of Man and Fallout 3, I bought BRAND NEW all their sequels. What about DLC? Nearly every used game that I've bought I've purchased DLC for (and for the brand new sequels), all this represents sales that would have been lost to the publisher or developer had I not got the used game.

Also you ignore that traded in games subsidise the purchase of new games for a lot of people, is it any co-incidence that game sales have dropped by around 10% since publishers stared to lock off parts of the game to used sales?

What about games that are out of print? Where are we supposed to get them?

Used car sales don't kill the car industry, used dvd's don't kill the movie business, used books don't kill the book industry, used furniture doesn't kill off the furniture business and used houses don't kill off the construction industry. What makes the games industry different to this?

When there's been a proper investigation that looks at the complex relationship between used games, consumers and new product that proves that developers and publishers are being 'hurt' then come back and make the case, otherwise this is just a finger in the air exercise.

Make no mistake this is why they want digital distribution, so they can restrict what you do with the product you've bought, one people join those dots any move towards that will result in failure.

[room414]

"Used car sales don't kill the car industry, used dvd's don't kill the movie business, used books don't kill the book industry, used furniture doesn't kill off the furniture business and used houses don't kill off the construction industry. What makes the games industry different to this?"

car sales- When a car is bought from the manufacturer they immediately make their profit. The cost to make a car is covered in every individual sale. How long do people own new cars? At least a year?

dvd/blu-ray- Movies are generally profitable from theater revenue long before they're released on a disc. Look up any movie on wikipedia and you can see this.

books- It cost around 50,000 to publish a book? Not worth comparing.

furniture, houses- Same as car sales. When a single item is bought from the manufacturer they have already made their profit. They couldn't care less what happens to the product after that.

When are gamers going to understand that this industry is unique? The only way to see profit is to sell a large number of copies of a game. When you have games changing hands a couple times within the first month of release because of used sales it greatly reduces profits or kills profitability altogether.

[BitbyDeath]

@Thankyou Room414, bubble for intelligence.

[room414]

People don't care about facts or truth they just want cheap games.

[MastaMold]

This is whats wrong with gaming today everyone thats leaving a comment here must be new to gaming cause there was never a used market till a generation and a half ago i have been playing video games for 25 years now. NES and Sega game cartridges cost from $50 - $80 there is not a need for me to buy used games if people cant afford to buy new games all you do is wait for a sell or price drop gaming was doing just fine 16 years ago before the used market came along but the way things are going now a days gamng is officially becoming casual and this is not how it used to be so if Sony and MS decide to make next-gen video game systems that block used games than so be it maybe things will go back how it was before so disagree with me all you want i'm sick of all this casual b.s.

[Soldierone]

Since when? I remember Gamers (yes the store GAMERS) all over my area that sold used Sega Genesis and N64 games....

I remember pricey games too, like the Atari...which by the way is no longer around....Just like all the pricey technology that has come and gone simply due to the price. Also 25 years ago the economy wasn't spiraling down the drain with gas prices sky rocketing passed 4 dollars a gallon.

And yes the industry still had issues. Companies were still struggling from time to time and companies were being bought out. In fact it was around 25 years ago that the entire game industry almost disappeared entirely....

I do agree with your casual experience note though. I feel games are going the wrong direction with phones, but also "hardcore" titles are WAY easier than they used to be. It seems like most (most) games are holding your hand the entire game....

[yabhero]

Games are getting more casual, however your confusing affordable with casual. Used games allow people who wouldn't be able to afford gaming to to play. Used games allowing more to play isn't whats wrong with the industry. As a person who's been gaming since they were young the attitude on this site sickens me, it actually sickens me. Used games are not even close to piracy. No used games that I would have to buy games I wasn't totally into for 60 bucks. If your a real gamer you should know waiting 6 months until the price is cut by five dollars isn't going to cut it. As a high school teen with only allowance for income I know that if in one year there are 30 games I want, if I were to buy every game new I'd only be able to get 17. 30x60=1800. Throw in a new console 2100. Not everyone can spend that much on gaming in a year.

[antz1104]

You're argument fails due to how much games cost 20-25 years ago compared to now.

[Fez]

How have you managed to relate used game sales to casual gaming?

[hkgamer]

I believe that the industry was totally different to what it is today, Dev's and publishers want more money because the market is alot bigger today. I also think casual games such as iphone or micro transaction games are indirectly ruining games that we play. The reason I say this is because alot of developers are seeing how these tiny low budget games are generating massive profits and wishes to make theses games instead of making the games that we love.

@yabhero

If you can't afford to play 30 games then don't play 30 games :D
Well that was what I did anyway. But each person is different which is why I am not disagreeing with what you are saying.

[Krew_92]

It's not only Gamestop though. There are many small independent video game shops all over the world that give you a better deal than Gamestop.

For example here is one: http://www.youtube.com/watc...

This man runs his own game shop. In the video he tells you what he sells used games for, and how much he gives compared to Gamestop. Although the video is four years old, Gamestop is still the same.

So I wouldn't stop buying used games, I would only stop buying them from Gamestop.

It would suck for people like him, who really enjoy their job, and who really only relies on used items to make him the most money, to have to stop doing what he enjoys and close his shop.

[peowpeow]

True, is it not enough that their fanbase is increasing by a large amount (if used games really do take a big chunk of sales)? Potential new sales for any new games they make

[homer]

@Pool
What about used books and dvds? The only arguement I find logical is the use of online passes even though I hate them and find them extremely flawed. I find them somewhat acceptable because they ensure that people who did not pay for the product new can not cause them to lose money from them using their servers but even that is a weak arguement imo.

[SPAM-FRITTER-123]

you are all missing the god damn point.

if someone bought fifa 12 new and the money went to EA then they sold it for cash or exchange then its fair game....BUT when you go to buy the game new yourself the shop always offers you a pre-owned copy for cheaper to make more money. if gamestaion has a pre-owned copy they always try and sell that first as it has more profit.

if EA is selling there title in your store then do NOT sell your invalid DLC-less version for cheaper for the consumer to turn around and say i hate Multiplayer activation codes.

i buy my games new direct from the company. no matter where i buy from i get a code which is redeemable on steam or origin which takes full advantage of my new,paid in full,thanks for supporting the industry GAME.

i don't mind selling my old games as long as the companies don't promote pre-owned to make a bigger profit.

if your company is closing down because EA,Capcom,Microsoft and activison are mad for not selling there games and borrowing too much product......then FUUUU.

gabe newell i love you for not making me pirate and offering a reasonably priced gaming lifestyle.

[Moncole]

Buying a used game is like pirating a game, both times the money doesn't go to the devs. If you pirate a game and like it a lot you will eventually buy it.

[TheFirstClassic]

"If you pirate a game and like it a lot you will eventually buy it."

That depends who you are, I have an uncle who says he hasn't bought a game since the n64 days, has pirated them all. I know someone else who has bought zero, read that zero, zilch, nada games for his 360...yet owns bout a hundred of them. All pirated.

[thebudgetgamer]

That's bs, I bought a used ford is that the same as stealing one off the lot?

[cyclonus007]

Did you seriously just compare a $60 game to a vehicle that costs thousands of dollars?

And think of the industries that are guaranteed to make loafs of money off your car purchase. You have to get it registered, you have to get insurance, pay for gas, upkeep, etc.

Meanwhile, there are no hidden costs to a game except for optional DLC.

[SilentNegotiator]

"Buying a used game is like pirating a game, both times the money doesn't go to the devs"

Used game = Sold to customer, customer sold their own copy

Pirated game = 99% of the time pre-release leak, no sale at all

[Smashbro29]

Bullshit. Piracy is illegal. Buying second hand isn't.

[_Aarix_]

I Never got it..for it to be bought used it had to be bought new correct? Or is there some other factor im missing because companies like gamestop and walmart hath to buy the games the full $60 right? Someone enlighten me on this.

[Pozzle]

There's a difference between illegally pirating a game in order to get it for free and LEGITIMATELY buying a second-hand game so that it legally becomes your property. Seriously, how the hell can you not tell the difference? o.O

[NYC_Gamer]

People have the right/option to buy new or used like it should be...I'm not gonna get on my high horse and act like never brought any used games before just to spread all this used games are bad for the industry propaganda. Billions of dollars have been made every year within the industry even with used software.

[SuperBeast811]

True and if the devs dont want people to buy their games used make them good enough to where people want to keep them and not trade them in.If nobody trades their copy it wont be resold!

[ash_divine]

@Both of you

Please.

This has nothing to do with the money they supposedly make every year. (That's like saying it was okay to rob a bank because you left a couple million.)

This is about getting what is rightfully yours. I mean, why the hell should Gamestop get the bulk of the money made from a product they had no hand in creating? Especially when that money was supposed to go to the devs/publishers who actually did spend years creating the games you love.

When you get your paycheck, do you not want to get every cent you worked for? Or do you want it to go some random guy who doesn't even work there?

And don't give me that "propaganda" bullsh!t. Because let's be honest here, you're only pro-used games because it saves you a couple bucks(consequences be damned.)

You can follow Gamestop into the sun if you want, but don't start complaining when all of your favorite game companies are gone. And the few left standing have to nickel and dime you into oblivion just to make up the difference.

[Megaman_nerd]

for someone with so many bubbles you sure make less sense than a drug addict looking for his crack.

First, buying and selling used stuff is legal so your analogy about robbing a bank is completely irrelevant to everything.

Second, making movies and games is not sure profit so you shouldn't expect to always have a check waiting for you.

And third, if the industry is making millions of dollars a year, even much more than any other gen then this is prove enough that the used games sales aren't affecting the industry that much. This is just the publishers greed. They see how much money Gamestop is making with the used games and they want some of that on top of the DLC.

[glopez]

Oh come on!!! the devs who make the game get THEIR money while making the games. They have a 9-5 job just like everyone else. Its the publishers who are crying about used sales. If i buy used the publisher doesn't get any money, the devs already got paid!!!! This Gen just goes to prove, common sense isn't so common anymore!!! People today are just begging to have their rights taken away, and they cry and complain when they get their wish. All this "well it doesn't affect me" BS going on, just know this : the word is YET!!! It doesn't affect me YET!!! When it does though and you try to complain, it will be to late!!! Like everyone here always says to defend these crooks "its just business."

[ash_divine]

@Megaman

Facepalm.

You're the one not making sense buddy. As you missed every single one of my points.

Firstly, the legality of selling used games wasn't the point of the analogy, at all. The point was that: It's not okay for devs to lose money just because they make a certain amount every year.(you might have gotten that if you weren't so busy worrying about semantics.)

I guess a better analogy would be : It's not okay to dock a rich person's paycheck just cause they'll "still make millions". Happy?

Secondly : Again, you've missed the point of my apparently complex analogy. The point was : Anyone who buys "Game A" should be paying the developers of "Game A". Not some greedy ass corporation who do nothing but hurt the industry.

And third : Are you blind? Have you not noticed the millions of dollars companies lose from the used game market? And again, you're agrument is, "they makin da millions". Well to that: See my first point.

[MrBeatdown]

@glopez

Here's some common sense for you.

Developers have jobs only because they can make the publishers money. The less money they make for a publisher, the harder it is for them to keep their jobs.

That little piece of common sense applies to everyone who works for someone else, to the kid taking orders at the Burger King drive-thru right up to CEOs. You might not be making all the money, but if you're not making enough money for person who's paying you, you're as good as done.

[antz1104]

@ Ash,

Your comments are soooo way off base. The devs make their money off of sale A from a retailer new. After that they aren't entitled to squat. If this was the case then you could say pawn shops owe stihl a certain percentage every time they sell a used chainsaw, or Jared Jewelery every time they sell a diamond.

Its not "following into the sun", its getting the best deal. This goes to whether its at Gamestop, BestBuy used, or Amazon.

[glopez]

beatdown,

That's exactly my point. they made their money when the game got sold new. If the want to keep their jobs they need to make better games. Just some common sense for ya!! This gen got worse and worse. Each game that comes out wants to be call of duty, and they succeed by releasing a buggy glitch filled short 5-6 hour game. Then have the gall to blame used sales when it doesn't sell. Some more common sense for you, if it didn't sell well new what makes them think it sold used? My examples are dead island, vanquish, enslaved, and quantum theory to name a few. Like i said common sense isn't so common now a days.

[ash_divine]

@antz

Even if the whole retailer thing is true..., that doesn't change anything. Think about it: If there was no used game market, everyone would have to buy a new copy of the game. Which means that retailers would have to order MORE copies. So the devs have still lost money.

Next, It's widely known that devs don't make a cent off used games. So let's do some math shall we.

If one person buys the game new and returns it, and another buys that same copy used and then returns it, and yet another person buys that copy used. Three people have played(and even owned) the game, but the developers only saw that first person's $60. (The rest went completely to the store selling it used.)

That doesn't seem so bad, until you multiply this by 100,000.

So now you have a game that 300,000 have played (and owned) but the devs only got money from 100,000 of the people. Which at $60 a pop leads to a loss of 12,000,000 dollars in revenue.

Here in lies the problem, I never said the devs don't make any money. But that they lose a lot of the money there were supposed to make to piracy and used game sales. Now if you can't agree with that simple fact then, you're just out of luck.

[antz1104]

Lol Ash,

Nice sidestep.

Throw all the math out you want, they're still making the initial $60 off the game that they were planning on. Now if they had to cut the initial retail down to say $30 or even 45$, then they may be losing money. But they're not losing anything at $60 as they're still making the initial amount off the consumer. What the consumer does with it from that point on is their prerogative as its their property now. If anything buying used is introducing someone to their product that they wouldn't have paid full retail for anyway. Its advertisement, and maybe they'll like it so much they buy the next entry or something else by that dev at full value.

Then to lump selling/buying used into the same group as piracy and call it fact? Trust me man, I'm not the one here thats out of luck. Seriously get a clue.

[ash_divine]

@antz

Work on your reading skills. I never lumped used games into any group with piracy. I simple said that both cost the devs money. Is that not true? Of course it is. So How am I the one that needs a clue? (If anything, you need a clue on reading comprehension.)

And as if you can talk about sidestepping. You totally avoided my point so you could go on some tangent about the initial $60 bucks. Ignoring the money lost from the resell of that product.

Like I said. If 2 people buy the game, one new and the other used. The devs only see get $60 bucks as opposed to the $120 or so they were supposed to get. And that's a loss no matter how you slice it.

For every person who buys the game used that's one less person who would have bought that game new. And since devs don't see any money from used game sales, that translates into a lost sale.

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about this but I'm out of bubbles so we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, I guess.

[Neoprime]

Devs already get paid by a salary, if you feel this way about them getting more money why not in protest in the street with them for high pay or more money/royality to go toward them from Publishers.

[antz1104]

Ok Ash,

I'll use my last one too (sigh)

Since we're on the topic of reading comprehension you should have seen that I was countering your point, Im sorry you couldnt understand. This is where your argument fails, try to stay with me:

Every game starts out new.

Its not like some fairy comes in, waves a wand, and a game is suddenly used for half price at gamestop. That is what you're not comprehending. So the devs arent losing anything, they still make there initial money off of EVERY copy of the game. Maybe its not everyone else that isn't getting it.....food for thought.

[vega275]

have a bub+

you two have seem to be the only people I've seen so far that hit the nail on the head.

dev's get paid for doing a job which is developing the game. they don't get anything after the game is completed and it's not like they work on commission so the fact that dev's are hurting has much to do with the greed of the publisher and not used game sales.

i honestly want to know how much of a cut of the profits is EA and other publisher are giving the dev's from DLC and online passes that they milk out of gamers then tell me again why used games are hurting developers.

[MrBeatdown]

@glopez

My point has clearly gone over your head.

A developer can build a fantastic game. They can get paid well for it. But if it doesn't sell what the publisher wants it to, the publisher isn't going to bother with a sequel, meaning the developer doesn't get their next project. Case in point: Mirror's Edge. Thankfully, DICE has Battlefield to fall back on. No ME sequel in sight.

The real kicker in all of this is you blame the devs by saying "they need to make better games". Tell that to Bizarre Creations or Black Rock, makers of Blur and Split/Second. Those were fantastic racing games that didn't sell enough. Sales weren't good enough, and now those studios are shut down. EVERY last new copy sold would have helped.

You say "each game that comes out wants to be call of duty, and they succeed by releasing a buggy glitch filled short 5-6 hour game" but you fail to realize that's the reaction to the problem, not the cause. If riskier, niche games were more viable, we would see more of them. More new sales would make that happen. Developers have to resort to games that they think have broader mass market appeal so they can sell more new copies.

You prefer to just blame developers even though plenty of quality developers have closed up shop or been stuck on sequels because it's what the devs need to do to guarantee a publisher comes back for another project. Ever wonder why it's sequel after sequel? It's because sequels are the safe bet. If each used sale was a new sale, that's just one more reason publishers have to take a chance on new IPs.

Your whole idea that a quality game like Enslaved wasn't hurt by used sales is just flat out stupid. You don't know the percentage of sales that were used. Let's say used sales were 10% of what new sales were. That would have been 50,000 more copies sold. If it was 20%, it's 100,000 sales. That's a big difference when Namco was shooting for one million sales.

The less a game sells, the more important each copy sold becomes. THAT is common sense.

[glopez]

beatdown,

Common sense is just going right by you!! I don't know how old you are, so ill just say this. Have your parents ever sold a car they no longer used? If so then tell them i need my cut of the money they received. See i work making cars and really think i deserve money from that sale!!! See common sense dictates that if you do something for one you have to do it for all, right? Well ill be waiting for the money. If the publishers determine the amount sold then the devs need to bring that to their attention. They make the game, they should have an idea how well it will sell. Used games are just a cop out for bad games. Case in point Enslaved. the Dev went multi to sell more games, but we all know what happened. A crappy game and a lot of finger pointing. Only they should have pointed the finger at themselves. The new DMC will be the same IMO. Contrary to popular belief on this story, bad games do exist as well as bad developers. But I'm gonna go ahead and say that i hope used games do take a dive, not go away but just go down a little bit. After that whenever a game comes out that does poorly i want to see what you and the devs blame it on then. My guess piracy would make a sharp return then, huh?

[MrBeatdown]

@glopez

Lulz. Comparing video games to cars? You want your cut from a car sale? Uh, you realize that practically EVERY last used car sold means that someone is going to buy a new one, right?

Nobody is going to buy a new car when they have one that already works fine. The used industry doesn't hurt new car sales. If someone couldn't sell their car, they would just use it until it's no longer worth repairing, the car would be junked, and they'd buy a new car.

That isn't true for the game industry. I would never own more than one car at a time. I would own more than one game at a time though. That's why I have 300 games sitting on the shelf next to me. Know anybody with 300 cars in their driveway? Hell, know anybody that owns three cars?

Basic common sense. Say a car's lifespan is fifteen years.

No used cars? Two people both keep their new cars for 15 years. Two new cars sold.

With used cars? The first guy sells his car after five years to the second guy. That second guy keeps the car for ten years. Meanwhile that first guy buys a new car. Two new cars sold.

Two cars sold either way. The used industry doesn't make a difference to the new car industy. That's why auto makers don't care. Very few people will ever own more than one car because it's far to expensive and basically pointless. It's an industry driven almost entirely on need and the fact that eventually, every vehicle needs to be replaced, unlike games.

Plus, nobody buys a 2005 Ford Focus and expects it to run like a 2012 model. But everybody buying a copy of Call of Duty 2 from 2005 expects the experience to be the same in quality in 2012 as it was in 2005.

People that don't see the major differences between video games and cars are the last people that should be preaching "common sense".

Sorry, but you're not getting any cut of the money my parents received from selling their car. Because all that money was spent on their new car. If they couldn't have sold the car, they wouldn't have bought a new car. The guy that bought my parents used car would have just bought a new car. My parents selling their used car didn't result in a loss for you. At all.

Now, can you find me one person who would never buy a new game, just because they couldn't sell an old one? No, you can't. There isn't a gamer on this planet that would buy one game, and never buy another because he can't sell the second.

As if your failure to understand the basics of the used car and game industry wasn't enough to prove your lack of common sense, you failed to acknowledge or even dispute any point I made, and you continue to bring up Enslaved, a game you call bad, but got an 80-82 Metacritic average.

Not only that, but you ignored my examples of good, content rich games that didn't sell well and my point that new sales lost to used sales could have helped a game's overall sales, encouraged the publisher to fund a sequel, and kept the studios in business so the developers could "get THEIR money while making games" as you put it.

[dboyman]

@glopez a + bubble for you, well said

[glopez]

Beatdown,

"Lulz", in trying to argue my point, you made your point then contradicted yourself. You claim that after X amount of years a person will buy a NEW car, why would they if they can go out and buy a used one. Same as a game, why do i need to buy a NEW game when i can get a used one cheaper? See that's how common sense works my friend. Yes people will buy new, but they will buy used if given the chance thus taking away the new sale. If it works with one why not the other? Can't have it both ways! Yes i keep bringing Enslaved up because that dev kept crying about sales not being enough for heavenly sword, so what did they do? They went multi and well everyone knows the rest. Perfect example of a BAD game selling bad imo, but its used games that get the blame. Now that is stupid!!

Now to address your points...

1. Blur and Split second were fantastic games, in your OPINION. I tried them, I didn't like them. Now it may come as a shock to you but the world doesn't revolve around you!! Your OPINION is not FACT!!!

2. Developers follow the money my friend. That's why they all try to copy COD. Not cause of used game sales. Almost all devs and publishers have a "me too!!!" mentality, and can't understand when their game flops. Yes alot of developers closed shop this gen. Used sales? Or bad games? Ill let you handle that one. What's your OPINION?

3. Now some more common sense for everyone my friend. The devs who made heavenly sword, their first game sold what 1.5/2 million copies? enslaved sold what 500k/750k? I hope when capcom picked them up they weren't thinking " yeah we got our billion dollar game here!!!" that's not common sense, common sense would have made them run for the hills! ! My guess is they went with the lowest bidder! Like some people here keep repeating " you get what you pay for!"

5. Oh and mirrors edge!!! "Lulz" i can't believe you went there as an example. How could that shining example of the perfect game flop? Surely it was used games right? It couldn't have been a extremely, extremely crappy game right. No, no that's not common sense.

Now try to counter my points instead of contradicting yourself. "Lulz"

[MrBeatdown]

@glopez

Wow.

I never argued WHY someone wouldn't buy a used car. I was arguing that auto makers don't care about used sales, because in the end, it doesn't affect them. You know why I was saying auto makers don't care? Because of your idiotic assertion that because you work in the car industry, you're owed something for each used car sale, as if a used sale is a lost sale.

You said... "Yes people will buy new, but they will buy used if given the chance thus taking away the new sale."

This right here proves you can't understand basic logic and you COMPLETELY missed my point.

Let's try again...

People NEED cars. Cars get old. Cars need replacing. Whether a car goes through one owner or ten owners, the vast majority of cars will get used throughout their life by somebody. It's a fact.

Used car sales don't affect new sales number. They just affect who owns the old cars and who's buying the new cars.

My aunt buys a new car every five years. If she couldn't sell her old one, she wouldn't buy the new one. The person that would have bought that used car would instead buy the new one.

Again, auto makers don't lose new sales because of the used industry.

Game makers do. All cars become worthless after a certain number of miles. Does a video game become worthless after a certain amount of playthroughs? Nope.

If I couldn't sell my copy of Mass Effect 3, I'd still buy a copy of Max Payne 3. If I couldn't sell my Ford Focus, I sure as hell wouldn't buy a new car.

Common sense.

Now, onto you addressing my points.

1. You call Enslaved bad and treat it as if it's fact. Yet you tell me Blur and Split/Second being good is my opinion. You base your whole argument on opinion, pass it off as fact, then explain the whole opinion versus fact thing to me. Talk about being a hypocrite.

At least I had favorable Metacritic averages to back me up on the games I mentioned. You had nothing to back you up when you called them bad. The general consensus is that they are all good.

2. Developers do follow the money. Maybe they would try new stuff more often if there was more money to be made in a game like Enslaved, Blur, and Split/Second. Unfortunately, there isn't so they go with the "me too" copycat crap.

It's hilarious that you chalk all sales failures up to "bad games" but you completely refuse to acknowledge that used sales play SOME part in low new sales. I never said used sales are the SOLE issue. But if it wasn't an issue, it would help a developer achieve higher sales. It doesn't matter if it is one more sale or a million more sales. Every sale counts.

3. Ninja Theory didn't get to make Enslaved 2 like they wanted to. So now they are stuck working on whatever any publisher will give them in order to stay in business. Maybe if Enslaved sold better, it would have encouraged Namco to give them the green light on Enslaved 2.

5. (Because you skipped #4 for some reasons.)
Mirror's Edge was extremely crappy? More hypocrisy.

There. I countered all your points. Directly. And for added lulz, I pointed out your hypocrisy and lack of reading comprehension.

Have a nice day.

[SuperBeast811]

I use it for games no longer available new like older games that I skipped for one reason or another like dead or alive 4 and Heavenly Sword

[gamernova]

Welcome to the PC world noobs :) I'm a pc gamer so all I have is locked to my account.

[Nitrox]

Same here, and I think that the lack of a second hand game market on PC is at least partly responsible for publishers being willing to offer up sales of 75% off or more on services like Steam. They get paid, and hit/surpass the price point desired by more budget-limited gamers.

[gamernova]

Definitely. I never pay full price for games anymore. Even so, we get brand new titles usually for at least ten dollars less than consoles do. The steam sales are ridiculous though. I remember I got new vegas and all the dlc for less than 20 bucks. Good times...

[palaeomerus]

And all the PC games I have locked to my account with the exception of Torchlight I bought for $8 each or less, often a LOT less.

I have never bought a $50 or $60 PC game since Steam happened. Why would I? I wait for sales. I did buy Torchlight for $19.99 but that's about the only full price PC game I've ever bought and probably the only one that I ever will buy.

If that's what devs and publishers actually want from me, then great because that's what I'm doing on the PC side of the market.

[Tose]

Steam is great, but ammafraid that is not the topic, so quit riding steams dick ladies. I swear I just read three ads for steam.

[vortis]

WTF was the author smoking?

Did EA, Activision or some other hard-up pub pay this guy to promote their agenda for him?

Really?

$60 for six-hour FPS games you'll play once and never again?

What the heck happened to video game writers championing the consumer? Have they all gone down the drain for supporting the corporatist agenda? REALLY?

[aquamala]

Who says you have to buy a game when it's $60? Wait a year and most games are down to $20.

[vortis]

If that game happens to be an EA game then you're already risking not being able to play it online. Remember those online passes expire and servers shut down within two years.

Also, Modern Warfare 2 was still $50 when Modern Warfare 3 came out.

[bigtrucknd]

I always wait for the price drops but it usually comes in a few months.

[jeeves86]

With no used game market, there would be no need to reduce prices. The game would be worth just as much now as it would in a year.

[aquamala]

^^^ so no pc or mobile games have ever reduce in price then?

[thebudgetgamer]

I buy used games all the time and I will continue to until that is no longer an option.

Also talk about hurting the industry, as long as there's been a video game industry there has been used game sales.

[Nitrox]

And the exact same thing can be said about piracy... Just sayin...

[thebudgetgamer]

No it can't someone was paid for that used copy I buy. A pirated game brings money to no one.

[Nitrox]

@thebudgetgamer

Okay, let me rewrite your point with the one I was trying to make...

"Also talk about hurting the industry, as long as there's been a video game industry there has been PIRACY. "

Both instances result in a person possessing a game which the publisher/developer didn't see a dime for.

True, whatever store you bought the game from got paid, and that does put the transaction a bit above piracy morally. But in the grand scheme of things, it has nearly the same impact on the industry as a whole.

= People acquiring goods that the original creators did not profit from.

[Nitrox]

Lots of disagrees coming in but I'm still waiting for someone to actually help me understand what I'm so wrong about here...

I'm not saying that used games == piracy here, just that there are parallels... At least from the perspective of the content developers.

Edit:
Also, that both have been around since the dawn of gaming, and the industry has continued to grow and thrive despite it. So all of this talk about either ruining the gaming industry is a little over-exaggerated.

[maniacmayhem]

@nitrox

The difference is that used game was once bought new, so the dev/publisher did see that money.

The pirated game, NO ONE saw any of that money.

So there is a big difference in your comparison.

[Nitrox]

But someone DID buy the original copy that was pirated too.

Say person A buys a game new, then sells it off to Gamestop or wherever, then say it gets traded back again and maybe another half dozen people own it over the life of the game.

Then look at person B who buys a game (PC for the sake of the argument here) takes the game home, downloads a crack for it and makes copies for half a dozen of his friends.

Tell me how there is such a huge difference between these two specific scenarios. I know places like pirate bay put copies in the hands of way more people, but piracy is piracy.

[ShiftyLookingCow]

All these arguments against Used games are for naught.

We know exactly how it is going to end:
Games will no longer come in a physical format after the next generation. And according to current rumors even for next gen they are going to get locked.

So screw these silly articles about the morality of buying used games.

[Lyr1c]

While I love to support a good developer, I believe that if I purchase an item, that I should have complete ownership of said item. Whether that means keeping the item, or selling the item (regardless of what it is), it shouldn't matter, as it is my own property.

Having people tell me what I can and cannot do with my own property because (essentially) the money doesn't go to someone else (being the devs) is a bit daunting. I mean, no one would complain if I bought a pre-owned television set or something.

[N4realGMRZ]

The videogame industry and its fans are the most devoted in the biz.....devs know that fans in the videogame industry are very loyal to the point that they would defend anything the industry say.....they are using your loyalty in this issue though......its simple........Do you see the Auto industry making a fuss about used cars and used car salesmans??? nope! are u by this very logic saying you will also never resell or trade in your car? its the same in this espect....but honestly ......these scumbags are so greedy that there even useing your loyalty....makes me sick to my stomach listening to some people defend these developers....

[DJ]

The day I can't buy a used game for a particular console is the day I abandon that console.

I don't see Honda and Ford locking down vehicles to people's identities so that those vehicles can't be sold. I don't see furniture manufacturers crying because a sofa can be owned by multiple people throughout its existence.

If Sony and Microsoft do somehow block used game sales, it will probably backfire and lead to the whole "You don't own software, you license it" bullcrap being completely reversed.

My friends and I rarely buy duplicate titles and instead choose to share them. Why? Because $60 is a TON of money. If they want to actually make the kind of profits that movie studios make, they should simply lock in their current hardware and not upgrade it for 20 years.

Releasing a console every 5~6 years is steadily becoming a stupid business model because game consoles are becoming so powerful. At a certain point you have to look at game development costs in relation to CPU and GPU capabilities and make a tough decision.

PlayStation Orbis and Xbox Durango need to hang around for a few decades. THEN we'll see game developers selling up to 50 million copies on blockbuster titles.

[PixL]

The argument about used games not giving money to devs is fake. They get just a few percent of those money anyway. And it's just the money they get from initial sales. If you buy an unused game after half a year or year, devs don't get anything anyway. Their contract are in 95% cases not based on sales. If a game sells well, they may get a bonus or another contract, that's all. The rest of the money goes to the publisher, the greedy bastards that are managers, CEOs and marketing people. They have nothing to do with gamedev. They could market potatoes. An used game just goes through one or two more middlemen (one of them is you). It's like saying you can't buy a game from a local shop because they bought it through more middlemen than a big chain.

Let's say used games are no more. I'm not going to buy most of games then because I can't sell them back. Most games are not worth full, day 1 price for me because: they are too short, I'm not interested in their multiplayer part or they simply don't have multiplayer. That means from 5 to maybe 20 hours of gameplay. No chance I'll pay full price for that. Then I wait till price drops, probably between 3 months up to a year. That's a lot of lost income for the publisher but I don't care. I'm not a charity to support people who can't do better. I get my money for doing my job well and on time. Why should it be otherwise for them?

[DJ]

"The rest of the money goes to the publisher, the greedy bastards that are managers, CEOs and marketing people."

Which is why I think everyone should study business and marketing to a basic degree. I know artists and programmers aren't typically seen as business savvy, but game publishers could definitely get cut out of a big chunk of the market if large established studios simply band together to create their own publishing teams.

The other issue is maintaining public stock, which is very risky in that you have to show monetary growth every single quarter rather than a growth in quality.

[Hicken]

Man, this bull is getting old.

No.

Can it get any more simple?

Devs don't DESERVE to get paid when I sell my game. They got paid when I bought it from them new. And it's not hurting the industry.

Just... stop it.

[Megaman_nerd]

If gaming isn't making money because of used game sales then Sony wouldn't be shifting the company to have gaming as one of its main pillars and MS would have stayed with just the PC but they do know that there is money to be made in this industry. And to make my long ass post short just read this thread: http://www.gamespot.com/for...

[Dugstar]

I buy preowned for the simple reason its sometimes all I can afford due to Family commitments and the like.

Were as 10 years ago it wasn't really a problem but now with Kids and house, its quite hard to justify paying full price for certain releases which in many cases you wont get your moneys worth out of.

Many games now are not even worth the full RRP if it were not for the Multiplayer portion of some games..

[T3MPL3TON]

It's as simple as this. Want me to buy your game day one? Make it a good game. I'm done with the excuses and bullshit. make the game GOOD then I'll buy it day one and new. If the game is only worth a rent I'll check craigslist or go to gamestop for a cheap copy. Simple as that. Don't like it? Make better games.

[FLAMES_187]

You couldn't have said it any better.

[hazelamy]

i have to ask when people say this.

WHY?

if i sell a game i bought and whoever bought it off me sells it on again, why does the publisher deserve a cut?

what other industry gets that?

if they want to profit from used sales, they need to do what these stores do and buy the games off people.
if they want to profit, then they have to give us a return on our investment.

remember, the stores have to do that first, all this bullshit about pure profit is just industry propaganda, they have a higher profit margin, but it's not pure profit.

tell me why they deserve to keep getting paid, when they got their fair share when the game was sold new.
does a builder get a cut when you resell a house they built?
does an author get a cut when you resell a book they wrote?
does a painter get a cut when you resell a painting they painted?
does anybody else get a cut when you resell something they made?

i can't think of any other product that gets that kind of deal.

this is greed, pure and simple, they had it so good for so many years and now that things are slowing down after a worldwide fucking recession, that gaming weathered much better than most industries, they don't like it and want to get back to the way it was.

my message to the publishers?
well tough, you had it better than most, but now the hard times are starting to hit you as well.
well it's hard to feel any pity for you when everybody else has had it far tougher for far longer, and you're trying to screw them out of their legal rights over their own property they purchased.

you wanna profit from preowned sales, you've got to buy the games off the people who bought them first before that happens.
set up your own stores.
then you can make a profit from preowned.

[glopez]

WOW!!!!! I couldn't have said it better myself!!! its nice to know that in this ADD generation that some people still have some brains and common sense left!!! bubs up sir! !!

[FLAMES_187]

That almost brought a tear to my eye lol...that's what some of these people defending this article don't understand. Times are getting harder by the day and no one has a lot of money these days to spend on a $60 video game. If the defenders have that type of money I can't hate on that, but everyone cannot cover expenses on food, gas, children, etc. and try to buy brand new $60 games at the same time because the developers aren't getting A complete share...WHO CARES!!!

[jeeves86]

Preach it!

[dragon82]

I have one word to add to what you wrote.

EBAY!!!!

[seanster]

Quite a heated topic I must say. Personally I don't have anything against buying 2nd hand games as this concept is present in practically everything other product. Anything is fine with me as long as its not pirated.

Don't really understand some of the comments complaining that developers don't get a cut when they are selling 2nd games. Of course they don't. Are you trying to say that if I bought a movie, and casually sold it to a friend, I should be sending some of the producers the money I got?

[Awesome_Gamer]

I will do whatever the fuck i want.. Used games 4 life, problem?

[StarCSR]

The anti-used games geeks and the devs can cry what they want, but games are just too expensive. If you buy your games online, they get like 50% cheaper a month or two/three after release. Heck, I just bought ME3 for 29.95 €. That game has been out how long?
If they release their games cheaper from the start, they get A LOT more day one sales. It 'll take the CoD, FIFA, ... devs a bit longer to get their money out of it. But it's as sure of a bet as always AND the smaller games will also be sold more. Imagine a Rayman Origins, Enslaved, ... sold at 25€ from day one?

[catfrog]

i have no problem buying new, but when a game is selling for $20 used and $40 new, im definitely buying new. the market has spoken, the game is worth about $20, but youre still trying to get $40 for it? not to mention half the game was probably cut so that it could be sold as dlc later, making me pay even more. keep those practices up and ill never buy your game new, only buying the parts of the dlc that i want.

[vega275]

i buy used games and will continue to do so. if next gen consoles stop playing used games. then i will start gaming on my pc full-time. i refuse to pay $65 for broken,buggy,incomplete, patch on first day,ect games. it's not worth the full price when your game needs to be patched or need DLC to be the complete version (Bioware I'M looking at you)

[Nac]

I don't buy used because I worked for GameStop for three years, I know how we treat used software.

[sypher]

Everytime a so called 'journalist' brings up Used Games dont make the dev any money. I cry a little inside at the stupidity of this generation.

But then i look at the comments section and realise, hey at least theres a few of us out there with some (un)common sense. Now only if those other people would listen... and not regurgitate the same unproven and totally destroyed points over and over.

Gamers, eductate yourselves because what you allow to happen as a collective will shape the future of gaming.

[Squadron40Dive]

look at this man

http://theparanoidgamer.com...

[sypher]

yep, completely agree with that article

[ZBlacktt]

This story must have been written by a Dev and planted here, lol. So fail in so many ways. So no one should buy used anything in the world...

[Kidmyst]

I've bought used games for years before a Gamestop (formerly Funcoland) opened via Garage Sales and Fleamarkets. Or from Blockbuster as formerly rented games. I buy most used games now from Ebay or the Classified via my work so they are cheaper and no company markups. There are ways to buy used without going through Gamestop. These stores are for those who "need it now" and shell out extra cash just to have it that night.

[Tzuno]

Why I’ll Never Buy Another Used Game (And Why You Shouldn’t, Either) blah blah blah keep it for yourself.

[eak3]

Companies are getting smarter at combating used games sales. Online passes is the main thing. I'd rather buy the game brand new than pay 45 bucks for used and still have dump another 10 to access the online portion. That being said there's always good deals to find. I picked up Far Cry 2 for 8 bucks a month ago. Ya its a few yrs old but still enjoyable and cheap as dirt. If developers really want to do something about it they will have to team up and bring a huge lawsuit against the companies that are doing it and with the hopes of shutting down used sales at retail locations.

The biggest bonus of it has been mentioned here. I like to trade in my old games and get new ones. I didnt pay a dime for Skyrim and maybe 30 bucks for BF3 when they were released.

[Megaton]

I haven't bought used games since... PS1 at the latest, I think. I mostly did it for Genesis/SNES. I just wait for Steam sales these days.

[Yomaster]

Buying new goods and reselling them for a return is nothing new to our society. Video games shouldn't be any different.

Samsung won't see a dime when I decide to pitch my $1,000 Plasma 3DTV for a newer model. BestBuy will even buy it back from me when I want to get rid of it, and you don't hear Samsung complaining about it. The whole "used game sales are hurting the industry" line is a heap of BS. We all know there are plenty of people out there buying new games.

The bigger problem I see is that developers simply aren't putting out quality games that are worth keeping for longer than a month or so (other than a few of those golden games we see). If these devs/publishers released higher-quality games with longer lifespans, perhaps we wouldn't see so many trade-ins within a mere few weeks after a game is released. I hate to say it, as I despise Activision and am disappointed by the latest installation in the CoD series, they're doing something right. New maps/weaps/game modes every month would be nice for ALL our games, wouldn't it?

Skyrim is a pretty good example of a game with longevity. Despite its flaws, that game could be played for a year. I've logged like 180 hours in BF3 since release, and I STILL haven't unlocked everything. However, EA (the ones who started this anti-used-games movement) has no right to bitch about their sales. They have their thumbs in just about every pie you can imagine, and are making millions only to whine about the nominal income lost to used game sales. It's unfortunate they publish some badass games, because I would've stopped buying their products by now.

For the record, I rarely buy used, but I rarely buy games, period. I only buy games that I know are worth my hard-earned $60, and THAT'S when I buy them new.

[smartmart]

Some figures should be put forward. How big is the used games industry vs the new game? Also the rant seems to be directed at game-oriented store not at used games in general. They promote both new and used games sale. The sales numbers could show us if the used game marketing with in-store credit helps selling more new games in the end.

Also, why people worry so much about this issue. Does author/publishers cries about public libraries where the same book can be read by countless people for free? Also, my town library carries a huge collection of CD's updated every month with some of the best sellers of the moment. Guess what? They are free to rent (paid through my taxes though) and I can load them in iTunes and nobody crying about it.

[Sucitta]

the video game industry is the HIGHEST grossing industry in the world for the past 4-5 years. Surpassing hollywood and every other money making industry asides from maybe the military and the banking cartel..

We are talking fucking HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of dollars here. The used game argument is about nothing but GREED and the all mighty profit above morals/decent life situation we have somehow come to accept...

Im SICK of hearing ignorant sloth defend these greedy publishers. Once you buy the product it is YOURS and yours alone. You can sell it used or take a giant dumb on it..

so sick of this greedy sloth infested world.

[BattleTorn]

Your condemning greedy companies, with your defense being 'we are entitled to being greedy too!'

???

This is typical "I want more for less" attitude!

If you take that attitude, they will too. It's endless.

Why can't people grow-up and realize 'what goes around comes around.'

If you take the attitude of always wanting more, for less, you'll find everyone else taking the same greedy approach.

btw, Sucitta, I somewhat misread your post. I'm addressing the "I only buy used-games" audience. I agree with you - once you buy it, you can sell.
It's the people holding out to only buy used that is hurting the industry. The people selling their games aren't.

[SuperStrokey1123]

This one time i heard that Ford didnt get compensated for a used vehicle being sold from a dealership. Outragous!

[Squadron40Dive]

Look at this article
http://theparanoidgamer.com...

[Squadron40Dive]

Fuck this guy check this article out. This guys knows what he's talking about!

http://theparanoidgamer.com...

[bobrea]

I love used games. I think you should piss off and stop telling people what you think they should do. Nobody males you buy used games, so go ahead and continue to not buy them and let other people who do want to buy them make their own decisions. I'm sick of seeing this shit all over n4g, the argument has been run into the ground.

[Rahim92]

If only more people in this world thought like you.

[Krakn3Dfx]

Guess what the dirty little secret is about used games? 70%+ of the time, used games are traded in as a way for gamers to afford/justify new game sales. So while game publishers are trying to tell you used game sales are hurting the industry, used game sales are in a lot of cases keeping new game sales afloat.

We just came off of the first year in history when game sales out performed movie ticket sales, and the industry is trying to tell us that used game sales, which have been around as long as console gaming has, is suddenly killing the industry?

Use your brain, don't buy into this crap. Eliminating the used game market will only allow for high game prices to stay high.

[christheredhead]

I buy tons of used products all the time. I'm not making an exception for gaming as a "special circumstance" any time soon.

[glennco]

don't tell me what to do

[FLAMES_187]

What do I do?

Step 1. Buy the game new after GOOD previews and reviews if its a new franchise that I've never played before or if its one of my favorite franchise games made by a top company who I feel that I can trust these days.

Step 2. Play it until I get bored with it

Step 3. TRADE it to Gamestop to get another GOOD new or USED game until I get bored with it and repeat the process from step 1.

[Yomaster]

Precisely.

However, I go to Best Buy for trade-ins. They list their values up-front on their website and don't give you any bullshit when you walk in. Sure as hell beats those GameStop thieves/idiots any day, and you have a much wider selection of stuff you can buy from BB as opposed to GS.

[ziggurcat]

if you're in canada, go to tivs.ca and you'll know exactly what EB games/gamestop will give you for your games.

that's what i do and sometimes i end up getting a lot more than what that website lists. people calling them thieves/crooks really don't have a realistic idea of what they're supposed to get.

[DeadSpaced]

If people are to believe that if publishers of a game would be hindered because of the used gaming industry, they would be right. Now, I don't not believe in this anti-used games movement. How many people buy games used? That's right. The majority of people do. How many people discovered an amazing game that was very enjoyable to play due to the fact that it was used and much more affordable? I think almost everyone has. It's the most effective form of advertisement.

Then what happens when the sequel comes out? If only 5 million bought it new and told their friends it was good, you might get 10 million copies sold. But if you let the game cycle around the community a few times, many more people KNOW that the game is worth buying new.

It's the circle of life of games and any gaming company would be ignorant to stop the cycle. Word of mouth can't convince everyone. But having their own personal experience at a faction of the cost pays out for the company in the long run.

[BlueEye]

The only reason I ever buy used is if it's some old game that's hardly in production anymore or that one case where I got Ratchet and Clank Quest for Booty on disc rather than DLC, then I went to a different place once I finished it and got about 80% of my money back.

[BattleTorn]

People wonder why the world is the way it is, when everyone has a 'me, me, me!' attitude.

You want the same enjoyment as those who buy new, for less! That's despicable! (I am completely serious)

People wonder why companies act the way they do, when everyone acts in the same exact manner - selfish!

People say a company is bad for being money-sucking, when everyone else hordes their money - despicable.

Everyone wants things both ways. I look at the used-game epidemic as McDonalds' food. How did it end up the way it is? Because of customer response.
They want fast, cheap, and delicious! (and nutritious) Well guess what! We can't have it every way we want.
That's why we have horrendous fast-food now, cause everyone wanted fast, cheap, AND delicious/nutritious.

Same goes for games now-a-days, everyone wants epic fun, for less-than-retail prices. It can't go both ways!

When will EVERYONE (not only gamers) grow up, and accept,
"WE GET WHAT WE PAY FOR" (aka what goes around comes around)

IF YOU HOLD TO BUY A GAME CHEAP, YOU'LL FIND MORE, AND MORE GAMES BEING MADE CHEAP!

[DeadSpaced]

So let me quote you: "You want the same enjoyment as those who buy new, for less! That's despicable! (I am completely serious)". Mind explaining that to someone as "rotten", "despicable", and "selfish" as I?

[SuperStrokey1123]

Someone got a facepalm pic for this guy?

[BattleTorn]

There is an old saying, "Do unto other as you would have them do unto you."

It can be applied to frugality.

[chobit_A5HL3Y]

it's been going on for this long and they seem to be doing just fine. last time i checked they're still making pant-loads of money off of dlc~

[turgore]

I am not a charity. I will buy games from whoever sells them the cheapest. Just like game designers and publishers don't give a shit about me, I don't give a crap about them.

[skyblue14213]

Used Games are hurting game companies?

Lets do the math:

Development cost of game(a): 30 million

Typical standard msrp of game(a) per copy: $60

Considering $60 price of game(a) per copy that sells between 1 million - 2 million brand new copies before it's first price drop, not to mention add at least 10 million conservatively for dlc sales only during the period that the game is $60 msrp brand new.

1,500,000 brand new copies sold
x $60 msrp per copy
----------
$90,000,000
+ $10,000,000 dlc
------------
$100,000,000
- $30,000,000 development cost
-------------
$70,000,000

Now take 15% of that 70 million for physical production cost, shipping cost, and retailer cost which would equal to about $10 million.

After all is said and done the publisher walks away with initially $55 million - $60 million pure profit, and I am not even including the time frame when the game drops below the initial $60 msrp or the loop holes that major publishers usually do at the end of the fiscal year by writing off on their taxes any potential loss incurred or any tax breaks that they take advantage of every year.

When you consider all of that and only during the time frame that game (a) is $60.... YEAH THE PUBLISHERS ARE REALLY HURTING THIS CONSOLE GENERATION BECAUSE OF USED GAME SALES, AND $55 MILLION - $60 MILLION PURE PROFIT ONLY DURING THE "$60 MSRP PER COPY" TIME FRAME IS NOT ENOUGH FOR THEM AND THEIR BOTTOM LINE!

Now I can accept and understand a $50-$60 msrp per copy of each game sold during when cartridges were being used to distribute video games, because back then cartridges where expensive to use and technology back then was a lot more expensive than it is now. Though $50-$60 msrp now a days is a bit too much, especially when you consider discs are a lot less expensive for the publisher to use to distribute their games than cartridges were back then.

You hear some(not all) of these publishers complain and making false accusations that used sales hurt them but you don't see them provide any proof to those accusations, nor do you ever hear them mentioning how they nickle and dime consumers via nonsense fickle or on disc locked dlc or something of that nature.

Common sense would dictate if more people are buying used because of a lower price point wouldn't it make more sense for a business to lower their initial $60 msrp per brand new copy of each game. I would be willing to pay $40 for each brand new copy of a game and I am sure every consumer would, there is a huge demand for a lower msrp without sacrificing quality that would net a boat load for any company yet companies refuse to do it regardless of the consumer.

Consumers or retail businesses selling used games to other consumers has been around since the video game industry began, why is it now during this console generation(when most game companies are clearly being more greedy towards the consumer) that used game sales are a problem? seriously?

If it is really as bad as some game publishers are making it out to be, then why is it that those same companies are still in the video game business? If it is that bad for them then why don't they just close their doors and instead pursue another avenue of business that is more to their liking. Imo it all boils down to corporate greed, if it is really as bad as they claim they would have went out of business a long time ago.

[Yomaster]

Damn straight.

They try to justify robbing us by raising prices for new games, and then bitch and moan when people can't afford it and buy them used for $15 cheaper.

On top of that, they're making MILLIONS and gouging us for the last few dollars of our paychecks by slapping in Online Passes that aren't even worth what they cost. It's bullshit.

I completely agree with you. If these goddamn greedy corporations/publishers would get with the economy and make gaming worth the money it costs, maybe they'd see more new game sales. Not that they need it, that is.

[Enigma_2099]

A few things to note here...

Is there anyone here who has a gaming library that consists of nothing but 100% used games? I'm one of the biggest supporter of used game sales (unless you're buying them from Gamestop.... those crooks...) and yet the majority of my games are brand new. I'm of a mind that if the devs are THAT hurting for cash, then maybe the PUBLISHERS are taking too big of a cut. Anyone think about looking there? There are plenty of people buying new games. Hell, people still preorder games for crying out loud! Games cost more than $60 to make nowadays... and this is our fault how? We didn't make them put all that s*** in there. Most games hide their shortcomings behind shiny HD graphics anyway.

And how about this HD remastering bull***? Are they complaining too? You're selling us the SAME GAME over again with a nice gloss of paint. But we're the ones in the wrong if we find a used copy of a game maybe $10 cheaper. I see.

You wanna blame the economy, don't you? Well I can understand that. Know why? Because it's f******* affecting us too! If we made enough money, this wouldn't even be an issue!!!! if you make plenty of money and still buy used games, at least buy used games that are either out of print or hard to find.

Ooops, almost forgot... to hell with this article. He doesn't want to buy another used game, fine. But I'll be d****** if he tells me what to do with MY money. I worked hard enough for it as it is. D*** state job.

[SpinalRemains138]

ummmm yeah ok. It's much better to spend 63 bucks on an 8 hour game.

Devs are being hurt by this?

You're all suckers if you believe this. You probably believe oil companies deserve subsidies too.

PPl make me sick sometimes. Im proud to have 2 bubbles around here. The less the better.

[krazeecain]

I wonder how much these writers get paid to write this propaganda.

I tell ya, this whole industry is becoming so corrupt, it's sickening.

[Shrinekeeper007]

So how much did you get paid to write this? Game companies continue to try and force us into buying new product via Copyright protection and "If you buy new you get x bonus" or come with a key for online play and if its used you can't play online. Game companies aren't losing that much money off used sales. Honestly I think used sales help with overall sales of games much like people pirating music. The gaming industry is going to crash themselves forcing new purchase and digital media and continuing to charge 60 bucks per game. I for one have all but quit playing video games due to the high cost, low quality of most games that come out and I refuse to pay money that supports our rights as consumer to fair trade. Shame on you and shame on the game industry for supporting something that tries and take away our rights to what we OWN!! To force digital media, DRM, and the inability to trade games is pretty much saying that although we paid 60 bucks for a video game we don't really own it because we can't do with it what we wish.

[ziggurcat]

i don't buy used games, personally, but i certainly trade in my games once i'm finished with them to get new games for much less (sometimes "free").

[Dark-vash]

I have a rather simple question...

I own a Video store that rents movies, I payed a tax on each DVD/BR I have to be able to rent them.

Now, a person comes in, grabs a film, goes home calls 2 friends over and watch the film.

Should this person pay 3 times???

I've lost 2 rents on that film!!! Is anyone concerned about my business? I'm lossing money!!! Should someone create a way that only the person who rents the film watches it?