Battlefield 3 - No modding tools due to Frostbite 2's complexity or not?

DSOGaming writes: "Frostbite 2 is quite complex and it wll be very difficult for people to mod the game. Moreover, because of the nature of the set up of levels, of the destruction and all those things… modding and mapping could get a bit tricky.

Patrick then concluded that it would be too big of a challenge for people to make a mod with the Frostbite 2.

Now forgive us for doubting this, but couldn’t DICE make the tools and let the modders give their best? They have already stated that their engine is complex so it’s about time to give modders this challenge. Damn straight Patrick, modders love a big challenge."

[Warprincess116]

The last paragraph was really interesting and i hope you battlefield fanboys read it.

[Agent-86]

Yes, I read it and please tell me how it's any different than your precious COD. Activision has made ripoff mappacks into an art form. Plus, you're a console gamer. Why do you care about PC modding? As far as I know, Black Ops wasn't moddable and I doubt MW3 will be either. But that's not why I don't buy COD games. I don't like the lack of dedicated servers, low player counts, small maps, killstreaks and gamers like you. I used to be a COD fan, but they "sold their soul" to the console gods and left the PC gamer behind. If they don't care about me, why should I care about them?

[lil Titan]

really want them to take a page from epic games on unreal tournament 2007 when you can make maps and transfer them to the PS3

[evrfighter]

Nah didnt bother to read it. What's there to read about when I know bf3 is destroying the competition this year.

[captain-obvious]

i dont believe it
they dont to give us mod tools just because they dont want to

i still dont believe it

maybe to sell us DLC how knows

[PhantomT1412]

The Black Ops modtools (beta) are out there... but I should add "finally". They were released like a month after the official release date.
They sounded like they had technical problems, but I suspect they received pressure from Activision because they wanted them to hold until the second map pack's release...

[BlackKnight]

"The last paragraph was really interesting and i hope you battlefield fanboys read it."

Translated

"I read a flaw about BF3 on PC even though its a flaw of COD on PC and other games on PC that don't release mod tools. I hope this helps validate my PS3 purchase because I am so immature I pledge loyalty to a company of a platform".

Oh Warprincess, does it ever get tiring? Oh that's right, you have one bubble because some reasonable N4G users consistently take your bubbles away for a very good reason. 100% fanboy :)

[KeiserSosay4788]

My god... With comments like that, its no wonder no one takes you seriously.

[Inside_out]

.
So basically, Dice is saying that gamers are not as smart as them and are inferring they are in fact TOO dumb to use such a sophisticated engine like Frostbite 2...o_0

Man these guys really think their crap doesn't smell if they believe anyone will believe this. I'm sure some sheeple PC guys will come out and agree with them.

The mod community is just to small and insignificant for mega gods of gaming EA-Dice to care about.

This is all about money. What happen to what the gamers want...remember that long speech Dice just gave us in another thread up on N4G where they claim to be inventing co-op and firefight modes because gamers want it and it's about offering choice...Suuurrre Dice, whatever you say. :/

[DeadlyFire]

Its all about money really. They want someone to pay for a full license to the game engine and sell their DLC. With the SDK you can make identical maps to their SDK and that is why they don't like releasing it.

I want mod tools available. So I can have free maps. Not one to pay $20 bucks for 4 maps.

[Agent-86]

Wow, both the COD fanbots in the same BF3 article (Warprincess116 and Inside_Out). You two are truly pathetic. You play on consoles....what do you care about PC modding? Plus you act like Activision and COD are doing something different. I think the MW1 was the last COD game that could be modded. Inside_Out says "This is all about money." What about Activision's ripoff $15 mappacks released every 3 months? Please stay with COD because the Battlefield will be a better place without you two.

[PhantomT1412]

Actually, Treyarch supported World at War modding heavily.

http://wiki.treyarch.com/wi...

[Agent-86]

And BF2 had modding as well. My point was that neither of the current games from either series has had modding support and these two trolls are trying to make it into a big deal that BF3 doesn't have modding. They are just about in every BF3 article trolling away. Personally, I think they have their "panties in a bunch" because they're afraid that BF3 will be better than their cherished MW3.

[PhantomT1412]

Clearly.

I agree though that IW might not support modding for MW3. Their community manager, no I mean "creative strategist" (like it makes a huge difference) Bowling doesn't give a sh*t about PC gaming.
At least, Treyarch's community manager came from the modding community (he started up a CoD mod website) so he understand these things.

EDIT: It's really sad to see the COD series, and especially Infinity Ward dropping modding (as well as PC gaming). It's what they are made from, some of the devs like Roycewicz that you could save (or not) in the Bog level of Call of Duty 4 were modders. Anyway, they're not Infinity Ward anymore, just an Activision puppet studio.

[BeastlyRig]

I am still buying it! It's a PC game first then everything else..

Skryrim, Rage & Arma3 will have mod support so I am good.

[fluffydelusions]

Mod tools are a thing of the past unless you are Valve. DLC (as crap as it may be) is the new thing. Mod tools or not I'm still buying so doesn't matter to me.

[Pandamobile]

They've explained this a dozen times. The engine was designed to run in a large development environment, with perforce servers, and ridiculous amounts of storage and CPU power. Not a single desktop computer. They said the raw data necessary for all the files and stuff amounted to 80 or 90 GB.

There's also the issue of the middleware DICE has chosen to use on the engine that would cause licensing issues if released publicly.

It's a perfectly reasonable reason, and a hell of a lot more realistic than "We just don't want to".

[BlackKnight]

Well the middleware would only be an issue if the released full on SDK.

Having a map/content editor should not violate anything.

It basically comes down to money/map packs these days. All I hope is they will do like Crysis 2, sell a couple map packs, then release the editor.

Due to so much of the game being done in real-time (SSAO, radiosity lighting, direct lights, etc), I doubt that it requires a huge computer to create maps.

Honestly, let them work on the game, and once released, let them work on modding tools.

[RegorL]

FrostBite 2 was built for Battlefield 3

But then I think something happened...

Have you noticed that it will be used in Need For Speed The Run as well. My feeling is that it will end up being used in a LOT of EA titles.

Why should EA release a mod tool that could let you build a competitor to Need For Speed?
- modify models of cars
- modify terrain and houses

Also think about the following for awhile.

http://www.totalpcgaming.co...

“We have a super-powerful streaming pipeline, which makes it possible to stream high-end data through the game so every frame we look at will have fresh data. This means you don’t have to load everything at once; you don’t have to fill the level at the start. In BC2, you have 512 megs of memory; you load it, you play it, done. The objects you saw at the end needed to be loaded at the start, and you think, ‘It took me an hour to get to this point where I can see it, so what’s the point?’

“That’s the whole magic with this. We can have 512 megs every hundred metres if we wanted to, as we can just flush the data out [and replace it] as you move along. I can promise you that the console versions will still look amazing because of the core technology. If you have a 360, we want to use that machine to the maximum.”

If you were EA would you release the tools? If they did I am pretty sure they would be sued by their stock owners.

[BlackKnight]

There is a difference between full on SDK of Frostbite 2 (This is not what is being asked for) and just modding tools for BF3 (maps and content)

Look to the fact there is a "crysis 2 Sandbox editor" and a "Cryengine 3 SDK".

They are completely different.

Even IF they released the SDK of Frostbite 2, they can do just as valve or Crytek has done, you can't sell the game.

[MRHARDON]

Funny Pandamobile....that didnt stop Crytek from releasing mod tools for Crysis 2.

If they make mod tools they would make it work for gaming computers.

Dice is just too lazy to do it, Look at Treyarch, they released mod tools for Black Ops.

I am not going to be buying Battlefield 3 due to this.

[Pandamobile]

What didn't stop Crytek? CryEngine barely uses any middleware at all. They have a custom physics engine, custom lighting, etc, the only middleware I can think of is their facial animation system.

CryEngine has always been built around their awesome jump-in, jump-out realtime level editing software. The editor that Crytek releases happens to be the very same tools they use to develop the game. Obviously Frostbite isn't the same type of engine.

Also, Black Ops mod tools are just the same tools Infinity Ward released for Call of Duty 4, only updated to tailor Black Ops contents.

If you're not buying BF3 on the sole grounds that there might not be any mod tools, that's pretty sad, and you're only punishing yourself.

[MRHARDON]

I would buy this game, but after awhile it will be boring without any mods, games without mods do not last long.

I like games where you can do mods, theres endless possabilities that you can do with mods.

[Pandamobile]

Alright, have fun missing out on the best FPS in recent history.

[blackhammer]

Seems unlikely that is too complex, since then they are assuming that we gamers (and modders) do not have the intelligence to tackle such a challenge; it's assuming modders aren't good enough.

BF2 didn't have tools, but modders managed to tackle that any way. This one might be different, possibly with some file type that prevents reverse engineering (or whatever technical mumbo-jumbo). If that happens, then I see greed.

Modders have done some things. A lot of things better than some developers. They won't give us the chance probably because of DLC. At least, I can imagine it that way.

Won't ever truly know, I guess, unless some internal leaks or something of that sort.

Either they aren't allowed to, they are too lazy to, or they don't want to due to financials.

[Hassassin]

give as mod's so we can have a starwars battlefront mod... pleease

[mrsatan]

If I can mod the original Crysis into a full fledged survival horror title, I sure as hell can handle Frostbite 2. I've done plenty of breakables and physics destruction before and they make it sound like we are pathetic.

[hazelamy]

i think he's underestimating the talant and passion of some members of the community.

maybe he's just afraid the community will come up with stuff he and his team would never have thought of, or thought possible.
much like what always happens when you give the community mod tools.

or maybe ea decided they didn't want free user generated content.
they want any new content to be bought, from them.

actually, now i think about it, i reckon that is the most likely reason.