The Blu-ray HD DVD Stalemate

With no end in sight to this high-def battle, Sony and Toshiba prepare to sabotage yet another holiday buying season.

A year and a half ago PCMag's Lance Ulanoff declared Blu-ray a doomed technology. It's still around. Of course, so is HD DVD. The war of wills between Sony (Blu-ray) and Toshiba (HD DVD) has, if anything, deepened. And much to my chagrin, both formats are gaining traction in the marketplace.

This high-def battle will end badly.

[Bigmac573]

But this war is over. BD is kicking ass right now.

[predator]

i cant believe ur a fanboy over a god dam movie format

[AllanWakker]

"But this war is over. BD is kicking ass right now."

BluRay has been kicking ass ever since last year and it just keeps getting worse every month. There are about to be sold more BluRay players over the next couple of holiday months than all of the dead HD-DVD format players ever sold.

It's over. Move on. Get a life. The fact that you hate 'teh Sony' is going to bring HD-DVD back to life.

[Rama26285]

I think having the two formats are actually harming each other. I know a lot of people are holding off until there is one 'clear' winner as they don't want to invest in something which could be useless a year later. I believe there is only a fraction of the people buying HD-DVD/Blu-Ray movies compared to if there was just one certain format. I'm sure it'd help get more movies in HD too with some studio's having to invest in making two products and some choosing not to at all(anyone wondering when LOTR is coming to HD?).

Then you have the matter of all the PS3 owners who have a blu-ray player built in to their system, and of course the Xbox users who might have purchased the HD-DVD add-on. All these people will be hoping their 'side' wins so that their system wont become 'out of date' in any way. Although, the PS3 will still continue to exist as game studio's will always use the space Blu-ray offers. Xbox users with their add-on will end up having to buy as many HD-DVD's are left to make any use out of it.

It's a mess and I wouldn't be surprised if this continues for a long long time and they both stick around. The two companies are too big to let things lye and for that reason I can't see their ever being a 'clear' winner.

[grifter024]

I agree with you this whole war is actually starting to look bad from everyones perspective. I dont agree with how some people are waiting because they want to see a clear winner..... I always never understood that mentality so if HD loses all the discs are going to melt and you will never be able to watch them ever again? No you are still going to have some good movies in HD and thats whats important not what name is on the box but it seems to me thats what people care about more then actual picture quality or how good the movie was, Most people on here say that BR is the "SHYT!" because they have sooo much better movies and capacity on the disk and better picture quality. The only reason they say this is because its built into their console if it wasnt most people wouldnt have cared about this war and said whatever it doesnt affect me.

Andy your comment was pretty thoughtout but also shows how much of a fanboy you are to Sony...you say you support neither one but keep on busting on HDDVD but never once said anything about how many disks were ruined because they try to put them on the BR 50cap. I agree that Trans didnt have Pure audio which was kinda sad but you gotta remember there are few people that have either a BR or HDdvd player and there are even fewer people who actually have a 7.1 Receiver that decodes True Audio and speakers that can take advantage of that, I see why they did this they knew its not mainstreamed yet and decided to put more features then something that the majority of consumers cant use at this time. Plus you say "Cheap" all the time but can you answer me this....why is BR still using MPG? While HD is using VC1? That I think it pretty cheap since most of the people keep saying HD has "Cheaper" picture quality.

[AllanWakker]

Yawn...

The only people who are still pretending there is any sort of 'format war' are hardcore Microsoft fans.

BluRay won. Get over it.

The fact that Toshiba is still selling a tiny number of standalone players for the dead HD-DVD format is nothing but a irrelevant sideshow.

When Toshiba and Microsoft have to pay 150 million dollars to a couple of studios just to keep their new movies off of BluRay discs it should be perfectly clear just how dead HD-DVD is.

[marcdz1]

I personally don't mind if both formats survive but I do want to see Transformers in Blu-Ray. I ended up buying it in dvd yesterday. But I did buy 2 Blu-Ray movies and right now they have a special at Best Buy if you buy one you get one free. I also saw allot of people buying Blu-Ray movies yesterday including and old lady. They were flying off the shelves like hot pancakes.

[RealityCheck]

Totally agree. That $150M was quite an act of desperation. Best example of artificial life support for a product; products should live and die naturally based of consumers voting with their wallets, not some shady corporate deals.

[Rasulis]

Yes because using the ps2 fan base to create an artificial market for blu-ray isn't shady corporate tactics at all. The only reason blu-ray still exist and has a good chance of winning now is because Sony used the PS3 as a Trojan. Movie fans had spoken and they had chosen HD-DVD.

I know, blu-ray is needed for next generation games, and I agree completely, but Sony could of went with hd-dvd which was a more stable proven format, cheaper to manufacture, and easier to use at the time. However Sony wants blu-ray to win since they have a large investment in it so they used the PS3 and it's loyal consumer base to accomplish this gaol. That sir is just as shady or even more so then paying money to keep studios, but Sony is only a business and not a model of ethics.

[Rooftrellen]

"The fact that Toshiba is still selling a tiny number of standalone players for the dead HD-DVD format is nothing but a irrelevant sideshow."

If you describe the number of HD DVD standalone players as tiny, how do you describe the number of bluray standalone players? PS3 is the vast majority of bluray player sales, and it's not standalone.

All I can figure from this statement is that you believe both formats are going to fail or exist together, because when you compare standalone sales as you have...

"products should live and die naturally based of consumers voting with their wallets, not some shady corporate deals."

I agree, but with all the exclusive support bluray mysteriously got without paying for it, this could not happen in this format war.

[titntin]

Whilst I believe blu ray may well be winning the war, the guy in this article has a vlaid point: the format war is ultimately delaying HD format adoption by the general consumer.

Most impartial observers would surely bet on blu-ray, it having more heavy weight backers and the PS3 effect, now that PS3's will start to shift in increasing numbers.

Certainly - I'm one who hopes for its quick dominance! I haven't bought the add on for my 360, so I play HD on bluray on the PS3! :) lol

[g-nome]

Both sides look pretty desperate at this stage of the war , free movies, buy one get one free , price drops every other month , it's all good for the HD consumer(if your chosen format wins) . The HD-dvd camp should throw in the towel imo though.

[THE_JUDGE]

Buy one get one free and cheaper players? Thats a good thing!!! As long as its on the Blu-ray side, more power to them and us!

[Mu5afir]

It's called the 40gb Ps3 and it will be releasing in the US very soon. And has already out sold the Wii and 360 in the UK / Europe. Every system sold, means a potential Blu-Ray owner.

[cuco33]

If HD DVD has died 5 times by now as per the BDA!? ;)

'War' is long from over ladies. In fact, both formats can coexist and the current state with no evident winner or leader... They both need to in order to survive.

EMBRACE BOTH!

EDIT: to below
I'll make it as short as possible. Those who actually BUY HDM want whatever content in HD so hence majority are neutral and have embraced both. I am a movie lover not a format fanboy. Even though I am in the market for a PS3 not only for gaming but BD, it is ridiculous that a game console is THE HDM player out there as well as the preferred player for BD. That speaks volumes for those who are not interested in gaming but just HDM.
I find it funny that majority of the blu boys preach specs they don't have equipment to fully utilize. In fact, due to how close (and small) the sales are, PS3 owners in general DON'T BUY BD! If every PS3 owner bought at least 1 BD a week, this 'war' would be long over but it's not.
How is Paramount's decision to go HD DVD bad? They once were there and went neutral. After they saw what BD was about they went back to HD DVD. The rumored 150mil was just that, rumors and even if so it was the extra push for them to go when they went. To the studio, costs and compatibility is key and obviously that lies with HD DVD (see production issues, replication costs, and the latest Fox titles not playing on Samsung and LG players). HD DVD has lossless, the studios aren't seeing the need for it. BD isn't 100% lossless so please stop preaching the lossless argument as it is old and dead. Besides, even the pros and audiophiles can't distinguish the difference between a lossless uncompressed track and a high quality compressed track above 320kps per channel like DD+ can do. Do a blind test, I have and can't tell and likewise you and everyone preaching the lossless argument will see that a high quality lossy audio track mirrors the master. To end this lossless debate, BD wasn't even going to include lossless from the get go.
Transformers HD DVD came with 2 discs, I know because I bought it at launch. The PQ and AQ are phenomenal and further proves the unnecessary need for higher bitrates, lossless tracks, and disc space. The reviewers and pros have given it almost perfect scores, so if it couldn't be done on HD DVD then how do you explain all of that? It's just more BD propaganda and FUD that has been proven otherwise. Besides, HOW does Transformers HD DVD NOT provide a full HD experience? DD+ is HD audio! and even if it had a lossless track, no one here has super human hearing or a $10,000+ home theater setup to even tell the difference.
BTW Denon is not exclusive to BD, they just decided to released BD stand alones first but the whole BD1.1 profile delay really bit them in the ass.
And if you think HD DVD doesn't have quality players, the higher end Toshiba models do a GREAT job. As will the ONKYO and Integra models as well. See, every BD stand alone out there, even the $1000+ ones will be obsolete after 10/31/07 due to the BD 1.1 profile. Why would I want a high quality player that doesn't play everything on the disc? Thank that to the unfinished spec BD has ;)

HDM 'war' is far from over, if in fact it even ends. The real war is between HDM and DVD. Embrace both and go purple.

[andy001]

To support both formats means either buying a 'cheap' standalone HDDVD player, or buying that ugly cheap looking add on for the 360 which connects via USB and does not play through HDMI (and therefore will not output HDMI 1.3), does not support True HD audio, and requires two power sockets and two powerblocks (360 and Addon).

By buying a PS3 I know that Blu Ray is not a wasted purchase, as whatever happens to the movie market, Blu Ray will be used for games (look at Nintendos use of cartridges on the N64 and 3 inch discs on Gamecube). In the meanwhile it is HDMI 1.3 (via downloaded update), does support True HD Audio, and is nice and neat and actually compliments my other Hifi components in terms of looks, noise, functionality. I can even download HD trailers over the internet, and upscale my existing DVD collection. Indeed it has replaced my Sony DVP-NS500V during this period of uncertainty.

It is bad news that Paramount decided to go HD DVD exclusive as otherwise HD DVD would be a complete waste of money, but after the news that Transformers on HD DVD will not support lossless audio then I am not bothered about the technology. It has failed to provide a High Definition Experience (in my opinion) and I am sure many other 'enthusiasts' will agree.

I just picked up the Spiderman 3 Blu Ray today which has two discs of content. Transformers only has one disc and does not provide a full HD experience. HD DVD is really the cheap option. If you want a $99 chinese low quality player to play 'High Definition' then I think you have got your priorities a bit screwed up. Blu Ray is delivering the quality and that is the winning strategy in what is very much still an early adopter marketplace.

I actually don't 'support' either technology, but Blu Ray is just a technology used in the PS3 which coincidentally can be used for movies. When all movie content is available on one or the other then I will buy a standalone drive, but I have to say, my preference is for the Panasonic and Denon units, rather than Toshiba and whatever unknown Chinese manufacturers they find who can build cheap players.

[gamesblow]

Boy, the guy who wrote that article is a damn slop dong. Blu-ray has showed massive gains over the last year. Well above that of HD-dvd. Where is this guy coming from and where's he been? Blu-ray will dominate sales this christmas... Spiderman trilogy, Pirates Trilogy and Final Fantasy will go along ways for Blu-ray. Thsi guy is unfounded.

[Xbox is the BEST]

is trying to bleed us at Sony dry. The longer the format war last the more money we loose, that's why we are using propaganda saying HD DVD is dead.

[Mars Attacker]

I hope a third format like "iDVD" comes out next year and kick both of their asses. To total combines sales of HD DVD disks and Blu-ray disks is still a fart in a windstorm compared to DVD sales. Neither has even the slightest foothold.

This may come as a surprise to some here, but MOST people don't want to have to use a game console to play movies. My videophile friends don't. My mother doesn't! Same with every other person that I know who isn't into video games. The PS3 will give visibility to Blu-Ray for sure, but standalone player sales mean much more.

This war is nowhere near being over. It's only just begun and don't be surprised if more than one new combatant joins the fray.

[cdzie1]

Scott Browning, JB Hi Fi Marketing Director, talking about why they are going to start carrying HD DVD

"Microsoft who are big supporters of the HD DVD format will bring out an Xbox with a built in HD DVD player. This is a given he said".

http://www.smarthouse.com.a...

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

Well if one wins, about half the high-def adopters would be wasting money, I think both formats are here to stay, but one will be better than the other in the end.

[Boink]

is the dumbest thing I've hear.

a recent consumer shows that 90%+ of people are happy with upscaled dvd's. so not only did these morons @ sony and toshiba fail to come up with a unified format due to their co-operative pig-headedness, which in turn gives people even LESS reason to invest in either format, they also have yet to prove why we actually need the movies in this format period. where is the extra features? where is the interactivity with the web? sure they have put in great sound, how many have gone and bought a 7.1 or 10.1 surround system to make use of it?

blu-ray looks to be the better storage medium due to the larger size, however I can buy a terabyte hard-drive for roughly the same price, if not cheaper. I see no reason to invest in either, too expensive for too little value.

they need to scrap it and come up with 1 format, or just give it up.

BTW, have the combined sales of either format broken the 5% barrier of movie sales? or is it still ALL DVD?

stick a fork in them, they're done...

[scriptkiddie]

If blu-ray is the clear winner then why does sony include a blu-ray movie with the PS3. either there are no games for the PS3 or they are desperate and still trying to push blu-ray.

If sony would only put this much effort into games the PS3 would be a awsome game system.

[mastershake100]

because ps3 packed with the biggest movie of the year = win

some people may not like the movie, but i did, even after i had heard people hated it. i still think part 2 was the best but 3 was by no means bad.

and yea blu ray is winning, its only a matter of time before hd dvd is dead. remember people 300 sold twice as much on blu ray with less features and outside of the us its even worse, in europe its like 4 to 1 in blu ray's favor.