Assassin's Creed struggling to fit on 360 DVD and PS3 memory causing problems

The developer behind Assassin's Creed has revealed 2 problems. 1) Playstation 3 memory is causing problems and 2) Xbox 360 version is struggling to fit on a 360 DVD.

The game's creative director, Patrice Desilets, told Pro-G in an interview that one of the biggest challenges the team is currently facing is fitting everything into a 360 DVD disc compared with Sony's Blu-ray format. Conversely, he revealed that the team was "really struggling right now on PS3" because of memory problems specific to Sony's console.

[TheMART]

"one of the biggest challenges the team is currently facing is fitting everything into a 360 DVD disc"

don't twist facts. Ubisoft will get it on one DL-DVD, they only must push to limits to get the programming and compressing optimal.

"Assassin's Creed struggling to fit on 360 DVD". That's something different then "don't fit"

[Gorgon]

Right. And 15 years ago you would say "they just need to optimize code and compression to fit it in a floppy disk"...

[ericnellie]

I don't think these issues suprises anyone!! We all knew that next-gen games would get bigger and you can compress the hell out of something but, the simple fact is the 360 (only 2 years in it's life) has already seen a multi-disk game.
We knew that sooner or later the PS3 would have RAM issues. Not that it doesn't have enough but, it's built a little differently than the 360s and it doesn't give developers as much to work with.
No system is perfect and they'll be pros and cons for developing on each platform. I have faith that these issues will be worked out and both platforms will enjoy the success of Assains Creed;)

http://technabob.com/blog/2...

[fury]

...

[codeazrael]

That was funny...........but mean man!

[Real Gambler]

The Mart: "Ubisoft will get it on one DL-DVD, they only must push to limits to get the programming and compressing optimal."

If they have to push the limits NOW, what do you think they will have to do in 3 years. You can only PUSH so hard you know.

And yes, they will get in on one DL-DVD. But what about Assassin's Creed TWO? I would rather have devs making great games, instead of working on optimal programming and compression... Sadly, they have much better things to do!

[Bleem360]

..space on the disks?

I'm wondering how many folks caused a stir when Final Fantasy 7 arrived on the Playstation. How many discs was that on, 5?

Blue Dragon on the 360 already comes on 3 discs - does the fact the developer needs to use multiple disks really mean a game should be knocked for it?

[Bathyj]

Sure Mart you must agree there's going to be a point where compression just isn't enough. And how do you know they haven't already just decided to leave something out, like a level or animation for a different ability or a more advanced AI routine. Chances are if fill a DVD 99.9% then there was something more they would have liked to do but couldn't. Are you such a fanboy you can't see that?

[millertime8306]

FF 7 was 3 discs. I believe 8 and 9 were 4. Can't think of any 5+ disc games ('cept on PC).

[mithril]

with linear game multi disk is ok, but in open world it's different, imagine a game like Assassin creed or GTA is open world.

your on GTA you drive at 100 on a bridge on middle of bridge .... Please insert disk 2. Now disk 2 is on drive you continue on bridge Wooooo, many police on bridge, u make U-Turn and at middle of bridge Please insert disk 1 Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[Gamespot-equals-EGM]

It figures, once there's some real bad news about Assassin's Creed, Jade Raymond is nowhere to be found. I told you she was just a damn puppet, just a pretty face to put out in the public. BTW, isn't she the 'producer' of this game?

[MADGameR]

Its going to have to use 2 discs if they can't fit it. Sorry mart try next year.

[MADGameR]

Its going to have to use 2 discs if they can't fit it. Sorry mart try next year.

[ATLRoAcH]

But right now they don't quite know how to fully access it.Due to the cells rather different design it needs to be approached differently from a programming standpoint.This is normal, it will take a while for programmers to get adjusted to the cell.They've got guys from Sony who specialize in this kind of thing to help them out.

As far as the 360 goes they will find a way to cope with the disc space,compress this,compress that and there you go.And they have Microsoft people to help them out as well.

The things I read that will help me sleep at night is

"The PS3 version is as good as the 360 version. We've been showing the PS3 version at E3 this year, but we've done a lot of events and it's just easier for us and for people from the press to have a 360. But the versions are the same, basically," he said.

"Both have their own challenges. Right now we have a big challenge on the 360 to make it fit on a DVD, to put five languages, to put all the data on eight gigs. On the Blu-ray side we're really good, but then the memory is quite different. How we handle memory is really different between the two machines and we're struggling right now on the PS3. But we have people who are really dedicated and we're having help from Microsoft on one side and Sony on the other side to have the same quality on both systems. It really depends on the week basically as to who's best."

Owners of the PS3 will find comfort in the comments, having suffered some poor quality ports of 360 games since Sony released the console in March this year.

What I said at the top of this comment is justified:

"How we handle memory is really different between the two machines and we're struggling right now on the PS3".

All the problems with the two consoles are standard protocol at this point.

[MikeGdaGod]

after a while, devs will figure out how to use the RAM in the ps3 correctly. but 8GB is 8GB. yes the devs will be able to compress data but after a while, space will run out.

i'm betting by next year this time, almost all 360 games will be multi-disks. not very "next-gen".

[barom]

It's true that FF7-FF9 was multi disc but then came PS2 and dvd and I don't remember any game having to use more than one disc (FFX was one disc I recall). My point is, you don't want go backwards.

[Proxy]

I noticed they didn't say it was a matter of their not being enough ram, simply that is was handled differently than what most programmers are used to.

[JsonHenry]

Just put the game on two discs! No one cares if they have to change out a DVD once during a game.

I love how the storage medium is being attacked, but the fact the PS3 is once again struggling with memory constraints is completely being ignored...

[Panthers]

The problem is that it is a open ended world. I am thinking you might have to switch disks every time you go from a city to another city.

Probably not, Im sure they could put all that info on both disks, but I could see their frustration.

[secret]

Everybody, let's thank the xbox360 for capping off this generations graphics potential AGAIN.

Microsoft had to have Assasin's Creed in it's lineup. Now, developers are going to develop the game up to the potential of the 8 gig and PC processors of the xbox360 and then force feed it to us PS3 owners. We're all facing you and applauding you 360 owners. THANKS, man.

XBOX360 WITH HD-DVD GAMING -- HOW PS3 OWNERS FEEL RIGHT NOW:
Now imagine this. Microsoft released a HD-DVD drive that allows the xbox 360 to play HD-DVD games rather than just for watching movies. Now get this. Because the number of people who own the HD-DVD add-on for gaming is initially going to be smaller compared to those who own the current DVD only console, most developers will only want to focus on making games for the DVD version. Imagine if you bought the HD-DVD drive and found out that MASS EFFECT for the HD-DVD version will be identical to the DVD version because more xbox360 owners at the moment have the DVD only console rather than the HD-DVD enabled console.

You'd be pissed. And that's how we feel with every multiport that involves you guys. If you can't hang on the fast lane, we suggest you get off the freeway or join the Nintendo Wii in the slow lane. You're blocking our way. GET OFF THE FAST LANE, YOU HUNK OF JUNK...!!!

And the developers complained about their lack of understanding on how to work with the PS3 architecture involving RAM. They never once (never once, never once, never once) stated that the PS3 lacks RAM. 360 owners should not only learn math, they should learn to read carefully too.

DISC SPACE IS ONLY HALF THE ISSUE:
DISC space isn't the xbox360's only shortcomming. Imagine adding HD-DVD and Bluray gaming to the Sega Genesis, N64, or the Wii. Because their architecture is last gen, no matter how large the storage capacity, you'll never get a good looking game as Grand Turismo 5 or subperb AI with over hundreds of enemeis onscreen like Heavenly Sword or Resistance Fall of Man.

Same goes for adding extra storage to the xbox360. It's lack of Cell processing and the unique relationship between the Cell and system architecture will always result in developers using Fog and Mirrors or artwork (artstyle) to fool certain groups of gamers into believing that that's raw power they're seeing.

Let the Sega Genesis or PS1 have Bluray storage, and I doubt the graphics will improve that much. I doubt you'll be seeing Grand Turismo 5 on the Bluray Sega Genesis or Bluray PS1 looking as good as the Bluray PS3 version.

LIFTING THE FOG FOR THE XBOTS:
To make my exmaple clearer, do you think that putting Final Fantasy VIII or Grand Turimso 5 or Killzone 2 or Heavenly SWORD or EVEN GEARS OF WAR on 100 DVD discs on the original PLaystation 1 or the Nintendo Wii or the SEGA DREAMCAST would solve the graphics problem and make these games look idential to the PS3 version or xbox360 version of Gears? NUFF SAID...

Has anyone seen breakthrough graphics on the xbox360 yet like Grand Turismo 5, Killzone 2, Heveanly Sword, Motorstorm, and perhaps Ratchet & Clank (took developers only one year to make). These are all mainly first gen titles. Can the xbox360 explain itself for the last 3 to 4 years?

Fake reviews won't cut it anymore. We dont' believe it anymore. Opinions can be bought and changed over time. Excuse me sir, do you prefer Coke or Pepsi. "Well, they both seem the same to me, and I honestly can't tell the difference, but since Pepsi provided me my most recent paycheck, it's clear that Pepsi tastes better." And I highly doubt that American reviewers (EGM, GAMEPRO, 1UP, IGN, GAMEPSOT, and so on) can not have a bias in favor toward an American console.

I don't like smoke & mirrors. I want to know the truth. It's hard to find the truth in the Olympics if an American Olympian is getting all perfect scores because all the nine judges on the panel are from America. And they're all family members of the Olympian.

How would you feel if you went to a court trial and knew 100% that you won't get a fair hearing because the judge and the defendant are uncle and nephew.

Let's keep the race fair and clean and enjoy the sport, not corruption. And xbots, let's see how smart you really are. Why is 2x4 and 4x2 the same. No one seems to know, and yet they come and offer advise on which console is better. Take advise from dumb and poor people, and you'll only get dumb and poor results like them. Don't listen to xbots unless you want to end up like them. Look at their Grade Point Averages and neighorhoods.

Be careful, if you listen or take advise of poor and dumb people, you risk ending up poor and dumb like them. You woudn't ask a prison inmate for stock market investing tips. Why would you ask xbots on which console is best? ARE THEY SMART? Do they know why 2x4 and 4x2 are the same without asking for help?

PLAYB3YOND

Please look at the third or fourth video first:
http://www.us.playstation.c...

[THC CELL]

ubisoft need to see what sony can do to help insted of been lazy

X box need better DVD

[CyberSentinel]

And you will see more games "delayed" or "canceled" altogether on the PS3. Maybe with the new 2.0 tools that Sony is providing, things will improve.

@3: I'm sure dividing the software onto a second 19 cents dvd, is allot cheaper and easier then scaling down a project to meet another systems restrictive requirements.

@2.2, 3, 3.1: Has the thought of adding a second dvd ever crossed you mind? Look how long PC gamers were (and in some cases, STILL are) using CD's as a format for software distribution. I'm sure when developers consider cost, they will choose a second dvd, over expanding budgets in increasing ICT staff/hours.

@Ubisoft Montreal: Don't even THINK about delaying the 360 version because of the "PS3 memory problems".

[ravinash]

Its sound to me that while they are having problems witht he programming to get it ready on time and on Quality, at lest they are working on it unlike many other companies who seem can't be bothered.
both systems do have their issues, but at lest the PS3 problem just seems to be the learning curve.
The 360 version is restricked by the hardware, but they can fix that by either 2 ways. force everyone to get a HD-DVD drive or cut down the number of languages on the CD.

[zag]

The problem is though MS doesn't allow for games to be mutli disk format.

GTA4 will have the same problem on 360, PS3 version could be out in Nov if things stated are correct.

Personnally having a memory problem on the PS3 is a lot better than a disk problem.

[Thugbot187]

Cell i think you need to read the article again. UBI is getting help from Sony. If you read there goal is for it to be a quality product on the PS3 as well as the 360.

[Madmax1281980]

Wrong! having memory problems is worse than having disc problems ie. a game can be made to use more than one disc but u cant change or make the memory in a console better once its in there thats it it cant be upgraded. id rather have a game on multiple discs than a game on one big disc with less going on in it due to memory issues

[Shankle]

That would be true if it wasn't a sandbox game. You can only use multiple disks on a linear game.
Indeed it does sound like the PS3's problem will be something they can get over when they've learned more about the cell. They may end up just cutting out languages for the 360 version. However, the article clearly states that they are attempting to make each game equal. I just hope some twat doesn't come along and start talking about Ferraris and Volvos...

[secret]

Everybody, let's thank the xbox360 for capping off this generations graphics potential AGAIN.

Microsoft had to have Assasin's Creed in it's lineup. Now, developers are going to develop the game up to the potential of the 8 gig and PC processors of the xbox360 and then force feed it to us PS3 owners. We're all facing you and applauding you 360 owners. THANKS, man.

XBOX360 WITH HD-DVD GAMING -- HOW PS3 OWNERS FEEL RIGHT NOW:
Now imagine this. Microsoft released a HD-DVD drive that allows the xbox 360 to play HD-DVD games rather than just for watching movies. Now get this. Because the number of people who own the HD-DVD add-on for gaming is initially going to be smaller compared to those who own the current DVD only console, most developers will only want to focus on making games for the DVD version. Imagine if you bought the HD-DVD drive and found out that MASS EFFECT for the HD-DVD version will be identical to the DVD version because more xbox360 owners at the moment have the DVD only console rather than the HD-DVD enabled console.

You'd be pissed. And that's how we feel with every multiport that involves you guys. If you can't hang on the fast lane, we suggest you get off the freeway or join the Nintendo Wii in the slow lane. You're blocking our way. GET OFF THE FAST LANE, YOU HUNK OF JUNK...!!!

And the developers complained about their lack of understanding on how to work with the PS3 architecture involving RAM. They never once (never once, never once, never once) stated that the PS3 lacks RAM. 360 owners should not only learn math, they should learn to read carefully too.

DISC SPACE IS ONLY HALF THE ISSUE:
DISC space isn't the xbox360's only shortcomming. Imagine adding HD-DVD and Bluray gaming to the Sega Genesis, N64, or the Wii. Because their architecture is last gen, no matter how large the storage capacity, you'll never get a good looking game as Grand Turismo 5 or subperb AI with over hundreds of enemeis onscreen like Heavenly Sword or Resistance Fall of Man.

Same goes for adding extra storage to the xbox360. It's lack of Cell processing and the unique relationship between the Cell and system architecture will always result in developers using Fog and Mirrors or artwork (artstyle) to fool certain groups of gamers into believing that that's raw power they're seeing.

Let the Sega Genesis or PS1 have Bluray storage, and I doubt the graphics will improve that much. I doubt you'll be seeing Grand Turismo 5 on the Bluray Sega Genesis or Bluray PS1 looking as good as the Bluray PS3 version. NUFF SAID...

Has anyone seen breakthrough graphics on the xbox360 yet like Grand Turismo 5, Killzone 2, Heveanly Sword, Motorstorm, and perhaps Ratchet & Clank (took developers only one year to make). These are all mainly first gen titles. Can the xbox360 explain itself for the last 3 to 4 years?

Fake reviews won't cut it anymore. We dont' believe it anymore. Opinions can be bought and changed over time. Excuse me sir, do you prefer Coke or Pepsi. "Well, they both seem the same to me, and I honestly can't tell the difference, but since Pepsi provided me my most recent paycheck, it's clear that Pepsi tastes better." And I highly doubt that American reviewers (EGM, GAMEPRO, 1UP, IGN, GAMEPSOT, and so on) can not have a bias in favor toward an American console. I don't like smoke & mirrors. I want to know the truth.

PLAYB3YOND

Please look at the third video first:
http://www.us.playstation.c...

[Shankle]

Yep, I knew it. He may not have said "Ferrari" or "600mph" but he said "fast lane".
Listen mate, this is going to be an awesome game. I'm quite pleased that they are trying to make each version equal to each other b ecause not only will that reduce flamewars but it means they'll be working to overcome the problems in the systems.
It's still gonna be a while before games start really using the ps3's power. You know that next year brings killzone 2, GT5, FFXIII, MGS4 and more. Why is it such a problem for you to simply enjoy this years' multiplatform titles until the big guns come out? Are you frustrated that xbox gamers keep going on about how many more games they have and that their console is cheaper? Well why don't you just realise that while you MAY have paid more (I got mine for about the same price - EU starter pack), but your console doesn't ever break, leaving you for weeks without a console. How about the fact that it's practically silent? How about the fact that from november onwards there will be so many top quality games released in such quick succession that you won't be able to afford half of them, let alone have enough time to play them?

For goodness' sake, just appreciate the good things and stop ranting. No one cares and it doesn't benefit anyone but yourself.

[wil4hire]

Time for those HD-DVD games.

[The Wood]

..

[Bullseye]

You CANNOT change PS3 memory layout!! Don't make rash fanboy statements in future,please.

[CrazzyMan]

i wonder, is it because they believe, that 8gigs will somehow increase, or that developers won`t get easier to develop on ps3. =))

p.s. btw, on PS3 develop easier then on PS2, if you use only RSX and PPU, it`s becoming hard, when you want to use 7 SPE. =) But when you use.. you can achieve amazing things.. =)
For now most developers use around 15-20% os SPE or at all don`t use them.. but with time, they will get used to it. =) Then nothing will stop ps3.

EDIT: LOL Bullseye, and you don`t need to change layout. You know why??? because:

Uncharted looks better then geow. http://img408.imageshack.us...
GT5 looks better then PGR4.
Ratchet looks better then any 3D platform on x360.
Oblivion looks better on ps3.
CoD4 looks better on ps3. http://www.dailygame.net/ne... =))

And ps3 still have same memory layout, but looks better. so what is your problem? lol.

[S1D3 EFFEC7]

They are talking about DVD limitations (360) and memory limitations (PS3). PS3's memory will stay the same, just like the 360's the 8.5 gigs. Stop being a fanboy plz.

Compression tools get better and most games get smaller, not bigger like some people around here want you to believe. Developers are mindful of the limitations and they will start to work around it. Look at Mass Effect, a game with dozens of planets to visit and explore more than 20,000 lines of dialog, all on one DVD9. Its smaller than the audio file in Heavenly Sword, yet it will most likely be a better game. GoY probably. In the words of Austin Power's fatha, "Its not the size that matters, its what you do with it".

And XNA (Microsoft's development studio) has said that they will be implementing new texture technology into the 360's development kits that will reduce the space required for a texture by 50%.

PS:I am no fanboy. I have a PS2, a Wii and a 360 and I plan on getting a PS3 by next summer.

PPS: Funny how people are disagreeing, but unless Sony re-releases a PS3 with more memory, IT WILL STAY THE SAME. Dumbasses.

[Martini]

Just as the amount of disc space will remain the same (360) so will the amount of memory availible (PS3) :).

[Icecold33]

You know what all, I see the PS3 memory problem being and more serious issue here. If they can't get the game on 1 DVD, they can always move on to the next disk. If they build the game in a way that you don't have to return to earlier areas (which I think it is), the once you put the second disk in, it will take you to the end of the game. That would be 1 disk swap folks so don't try and make if more that what it is.

However, if they are having memory problems with the PS3 version, a couple different things can crop up. There could be game instability, framerate issues, and or game slowdowns due to having to buffer data from the BD.

Although that are both problems for Ubisoft, I would be more concerned with the memory issues.

It's funny how a lot of people are using this story to bash the 360 AGAIN for not have Blu-Ray or HDDVD. I'm sure if it did have HDDVD, there would be something about that to whine about.

[wil4hire]

ditto.

[DZNetworks]

I believe you are correct... Its time Microsoft bite the bullet and dump the current dvd format and include HD DVD in all future consoles. Of course this sucks for those of us that just have the standard DVD drive.. At least the hd add on is relatively cheap.

[xplosneer]

PS3's memory CAN change...They just need to make an update that improves the memory required for the OS...Like the 360. And 360's space can change too, they just need better compression(to a certain point of course)

[MK_Red]

Why is the new generation of consoles like this? All have one or 2 really bad weaknesses.
PS3 has memory problems (Previous problems like games and price are being solved). 360 has space capacity / DVD problems (Previous problems like RROD are being solved). Finally, Wii has lst gen graphics and very few worthy/ hardcore games (And NONE of it's problems are being solved).

As for Assassins, I think the devs are kinda ranting because if games like GTA4, Oblivion, Mass Effect and Orange Box can come to 360 on DVD, then so should Assassins. On PS3, lack of memory while being a really annoying for devs, it can be bypassed by more professional coding I believe.

[CaliGamer]

While I usually agree with your comments, at least enough not to have to say anything in support or contrary to it, I believe you dropped the ball here bro. You compare Assassins Creed to Oblivion, GT4, Orange Box and Mass Effect in terms of space on a DVD, but you as well as I don't know what the circumstances were in coding of those games, the textures used, the way they were used, compression techniques, etc, etc, etc. How do you know that the textures on AC are not of higher quality, that they used more unique textures than those other games, that they have more dialogue, that they have extras that they have not revealed, you don't even really know how long the game is.
My point is if they are making the game and say they need more space, I would take their word for it because they are making the product.
Why do some cars take premium gas while other require regular? Isn't it all gas in the end? The answer is yes, but on a more technical level they are not the same. The above example can be taken and applied to coding for a video game, different games have different requirements and different developers use the assets on a give console differently. End of story.

[Premonition]

I agree, I think Killzone 2 for PS3 has set the standards already, if Guerilla can work with the memory and push the game like it is now, theres no excuse for other companies to complain about problems unless your not a vet at coding cause you probably slacked off at school.

EDIT: Stupid IE7 keeps making me double post

[Premonition]

I agree, I think Killzone 2 for PS3 has set the standards already, if Guerilla can work with the memory and push the game like it is now, theres no excuse for other companies to complain about problems unless your not a vet at coding cause you probably slacked off at school.

[TechWiz]

I agree Mk_Red, why do the next gen consoles have weakness already. I'm very disappointed with both systems with their weakness, I thought they were next gen. Why wouldn't Sony and Microsoft just throw in 2 gigs of memory. This way the devs can't complain about memory issues. Also no hard drive for the core was not a good idea, this hurts when your try to cram everything on a dvd. MS have some hard decisions, about forcing people with the hard drive and possible the hd-dvd in the future.

[Martini]

Memory is given and you can't change that.You can store extra content on hdd so that yes swaping disc might be needed in the future but you might be able to install it on the hdd. To sum it up not enough memory is definitely worse than lacking storage space that can be compensated for by using hdd (optional) IMHO.

[RonDeMuerte]

How could this be true!!!??....a bunch of X-bots once told me that DVD 9 was magicly limitless!!!!! oh the insanity!!!

[thereapersson]

CD's and floppy disks are still relevant because we can use use compression!

edit: I always forget that sarcasm is lost on the internet... :/

[RonDeMuerte]

That a game like Assasin's Creed can fit into a CD or a floppy haha....and all because of the magic of compression huh?.......listen guy.....compression, if used moderately can be very helpful at times.....but the fact that you have to compress the whole game into a DVD 9 means that the disc wasn't built to hold that much information, because at some point you will have problems with space....just like they're having right now.....

Oh my bad....reaperman......your comment really didn't seem sarcastic at first......I had pretty much just woken up when I read it...

[CaliGamer]

I think you might have thereapersson wrong RonDeMuerte, it sounded to me like he was trying to be facetious, but I could be wrong. The vagaries of the written comment, always controversial.

[u got owned]

While i don't agree with you, i must say...

NICE AVATAR, lol

Don Q con Coca Cola.... ufff the best

[The Wood]

your console needs YOU

[achira]

the ps3 has the same amount of ram like the xbox360. someone takes to much drugs. and the ps3 rams is much faster. the devs should learn to program the ps3. by the way the ps3 had 32 mb ram, if i recall correctly, and it was enough, and now 512 mb are not enough ? lol.

[SlippyMadFrog]

The difference is that the Xbox360 can divide the ram between the CPU and GPU as they want, the PS3 is locked at 256 for CPU and 256 for GPU.

[Real Gambler]

Having "flexible" memory allocation is great but it's also a beast.

It's awesome if you have a game that has no graphics, so you can get almost all 512Mb for calculations alone. Best example would be if Folding at Home would run on a 360. You turn off the nice graphic map, give all 512Mb of memory to hold the molecule and you would likely get better result at folding. Sadly, there's not that many program not requiring graphics.

Then it would also be awesome if you had a program that is doing only graphics but no calculations at all (you can add all the physics, positionning, etc). Please tell me what program would be only graphics and need 512Mb? None.

So it's always a trade off. Sure enough, it's nice to be able to have like 300Mb for graphics if your lonely hero is in a big buiding with lots of textures (You'll need less for calculations, only one guy moving). And it's great to have 300Mb for calculations when you have a whole army running toward you, but then all the guys and texture would look the same since there would be less for graphics.

So in real world, this memory is mostly split 50-50 most of the time. You need graphics, but you also need to know where your guys are and where they are going.

Now, if you develop a game on the 360, sure enough, you may get a game that has a 300Mb-200Mb ratio either way, most of the time. Could this game could have been done 250Mb-250Mb always? Sure. you drop some textures or go from 500 ennemies to 400 ennemies and you're all set. Sadly though, devs have been working on the 360 for longer, so sure enough, they will develop the game on that console first. And sure enough, porting it to a PS3 is not so easy if this was not well thought from the beginning.

There's awesome games still coming out for the PS2 with only 32Mb of memory. And it doesn't seem like having a fix split is a problem with games like Heavenly Sword, where thousands of ennemies are running on the screen at the same time.

Biggest mistake from Microsoft was to remove the hard drive!!! It was in all original Xbox. Why removing it in the core. If you want to use a cheap DVD player, then slap a hard drive in all your consoles. This way, sure enough you can use multiple DVD and install the game on hard drive like most pcs. Sony played it safe. Hard drive in all consoles, but also bigger media.

[codeazrael]

The 360 was going to have only 256 megs of ram until Epic showed Microsoft what Gears would look like at 512 megs, and presto! Now for those who don't know what slippy is talking about, let me break it down for you. The 360's unified ram architecture allows ALL RAM to be utilized, because in some sequences in a game, all of the video or system ram may not be in use, when this happens, if the other side could use the extra megs, it can, meaning the ram can be distributed either way for video or system performance. The PS3 cannot do this. And a small few are even messing with the SPEs...most are bypassing them altogether. Guerilla is utilizing them because Sony is actually pouring money into the Killzone 2 project, as well they should because after the E3 05 "pipedream" of KZ2 they showed us, too many people are expecting something at least close to what they saw. But Microsoft just got it right with the ram, and the only way that Sony can match or even exceed the 360s graphics are if the studios are using the PS3's SPEs. If they don't use them, then you will get the same results you have seen time after time when comparing multiplatform games. The PS3 version always look a bit lower grade than the 360.

[TechWiz]

Unified memory is way better, then dedicated memory. Dedicated memory usually has some waste with the GPU. But, Microsoft and Sony should have added more memory than their 512mb. 1gig should have been the minimum. I would of like to see 2gigs in these consules. Then what will the Devs. complain about?

-Edit @ achira read about the memory before you post see below:
http://ps3.qj.net/Bethesda-...

If you disagree please respond and try to add a post. It helps with your argument

[achira]

wrong codraezel! unified memory is not better. the point is the ps3 can access the 2 256 mb blocks independently! gpu reads/writes to its block and cpu to its block. and the xdram is 7 times faster than the ram the xbox360 uses. another fact is, why have computers dedicated ram for the gpu ? because its far more effective! only the cheap computers have unified momory for gpu and cpu. but you are a moron, and you have no idea of the topic, so you talk out ms propagandy out of your ass.

[codeazrael]

At least a gig of unified ram would have been awesome. I mean what was Sony thinking??? Even when that system launched, 256 megs of ram was just no good, I don't care how well you claim the SPEs could step in. BTW, they'll only step in if devs....USE THEM!!! Most devs ARE NOT using the SPEs and thus that will reflect on the quality of most games that come out for the PS3 console leaving consumers going for the more popular 360 which is cheaper in price, bundled with 2 games, rumble included, and oh yeah, GAMES!!! And good ones too, not just overhyped ones like lair and heavenly sword that are like 8 or 9 hours.

[BADBOYEK4]

The PS3 wil always be in the 360 shadow with its memory problems, this is why the PS3 struggles with Framrate problems, this is not Flame Bait just true Facts. I dont like the way PS3 fans dog 3RD party developers when thay cant get games to run a good framerate on the PS3, when SONYs 1ST Party developers cant get games to run a good framerate the PS3 fans dont say SHlT.

[achira]

frame rate problems have nothig to do with ram, only with less time to develope.

[The Wood]

framerate issues in the earlier 360 games especially in year 1. strange that.

edit

wow to jokes on you 0 flame comment below v vv vv v

re edit

*sigh* spoke too soon. vv vv v

[BADBOYEK4]

You know nothing about Computers , why do you think Gaming PC have so much RAM. The PS3 Memory problem cant be fixed, this is a Hardware problem and you cant fix Hardware Prblems with Software so stop saying development is going to get easy for the PS3 because that is bull. Gabe Newell the PS3 has Serious Hardware Problems and that SONY should Trash the PS3 and start from Scratch.

[thereapersson]

EA can't manage to get a sports game to run at 30 fps on the PS3, while Sony's first party sports studios can get their games to run at 60fps?

[SlippyMadFrog]

so by following your logic, they can put Assasins creed on a PS1 with the same frame rate as PS3, they just need more development time?
The comment you made is absolutely laughable!

[masterg]

1st Party developers doesn't have problems with frame rate.
The only 1st party game that has a hint is Lair and that's just about zip.

[TechWiz]

There is some truth and false in everyone's statement. Frame rates usually drop because of lack of memory or inefficient use of. But, better program does help with memory problems. Perfect example is the PS2 with it's anemic memory. I remembered when the PS2 was first launched, I laughed my a$$ off on how little it had. But, I was proven wrong down the road on how well the games look years down the road.

About Gabe Newell: This guy is an a$$ he knock the xbox360 for using multiple processors. Also ranting Intel for not making single core processors faster and switching to multi-core. All this guy does is complain about everything. He wants his cake and eat it too. @ Gabe, times change very fast in the Tech world, keep up or get out of the way.

The last thing I wanted to say: EA has problems, because they port from the 360 to the ps3. If they write for the ps3 and port to the 360 you would have the same results. Remember EA launches sports game every year they don't have time to re-tune the game for the port so they release it flawed.

[The Wood]

bubbles for you TechWiz

[Real Gambler]

Start your PC and do Ctrl-Alt-Del. Go check how many process are running after you have just started the PC. This is why you need tons of memory on a PC. Look at the bunch of icons you have in the bottom left corner of your screen. All software running in the background. Do you need an antivirus on a console? What about a specific driver and software for a specific sound cards, or printer, or whatever. And the list goes on.

You don't need 2 gig on a console because you only need to run a very, very tight operating system, with included drivers. Nothing else.

XP (which comes with thousands of drivers) could run on 128Mb and yet it's a pretty impressive operating system. Sure, it's better with 512Mb, but it's because you're running all kind of junk at the same time. Vista looks likes XP but need 4 times this amount of memory alone. That's why you need 2Gig in most pc today. After you boot your PC, half the memory is already gone.

You then need more memory when you make your software because you also have to cope with differents graphic cards, sound cards, network cards and so on... When you code your game, it has to work with an Nvidia or an ATI or something else. Sure enough the OS take care of some of that stuff, but if you want the best, you also have to optimize your game so it works nice with one manufacturer or the other. Lots and lots of overhead in the coding. And lots of patches when you find out that one specific graphic card is not compatible in the lot.

With consoles, you are talking with very specific hardware that never change. No overhead coding. You can easily save 33% of those "if Nvidia do this OR if ATI do that" lines.

This is why awesome games are still coming out on the older consoles with 32Mb memory. Do you think you could run the PS2 God of War on a 32Mb PC (That would be a 12 years old PC...)???? No way, yet it does look quite good on a 32Mb PS2.

[ALMIGHTYPS3]

"this is why PS3 struggles with framerate problems"??????????

ninga gaiden sigma: 60fps at 1080

gt5: 60fps at 1080

r&ctod; 60fps AT 1080

pull your head out of your ass and PLAY~B3YOND

ALSO:(from Ubisoft themselves: HOW WE HANDLE MEMORY IS REALLY DIFFERENT BETWEEN THE 2 MACHINES AND WE'RE STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW ON THE PS3.

Wesley yin poole(editer;personal observation: THE TEAM IS REALLY STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW ON THE PS3 BECAUSE OF MEORY PROBLEMS.

It is really amazing that sooo many xfans on this thread have:

a: COMPLETELY IGNORED WHAT UBISOFT SAID THEMSELVES
b: NOT ONLY LISTEN TO THE EDITOR'S PERSONAL THOUGHTS,BUT ADDED TO IT(MEMORY LIMITATIONS)- WOW!!!!

Is this young society failing??? READING COMPREHENSION PEOPLE!! PLEASE!!!

[JokesOnYou]

"Right now we have a big challenge on the 360 to make it fit on a DVD, to put five languages, to put all the data on eight gigs."

Now I'm curious just how big/long this game is and what type of compression they are using?, 5 languages for 360 version? either way whats the problem with putting this type of game on 2 discs? I'm sure micro can help them out, but damm this game has had some issues lately, I guess its just one of the downsides of trying to do make a ambitious AAA title for both consoles at the same time.

JOY

yeah OK so ps3 is good even though architecture itself is not optimal for gaming, and its stuck with the rsx= yes devs can work around this flaw, devs always find ways to do amazing things with less on consoles compared to PC, but ram wise both consoles will lag behind PC which means theres only so much "majic" devs can do, compared to the 360 the 360 is much more favorable for devs in this dept.

disc space can be solved with multiple discs or better compression, and if you sonykids dont know micro is constantly improving its compression techniques and dev tools, remember they are a software company 1st, in fact compression on all levels of tech is always constantly evolving through new programs, thats always been the case.

[ThaGeNeCySt]

Last I heard... the game clocks in at a total of about 40 hours (18 for the core game, and 22 for sidequests)

[TechWiz]

Very well written, but you do come off as a fan-boy. If that's what you are going for well done!

Let's face it both console are flawed.

PS3 only weakness I see is the memory. Like we all know the devs always find a way around this. I haven't read anything from the devs about the RSX being flawed. If anyone has any please share I would love to read the article.

Microsoft weakness is the lack of storage size disc and hard drive (core system). You can compress all you want, but remember you have to uncompress. Uncompress data would have to be stored on a hard drive or the main memory. Not good, 1st the obvious sucking up memory and 2 taxing on the system, it does take time to uncompress lots of data. Now if the xbox had a hard drive in the core it could uncompress there during the install. So really what it boils down to Microsoft should have in the core system a hard drive. Microsoft should break away with the core system idea.

Last note: If its the 5 languages causing a storage problem why don't they just use the language area specific. Example like USA (English and Spanish), Canada (French and English). Or just due a simple download for your preferred language.

Besides this game is only single play what's the big deal having it on two disc.

[XBOTSMUSTDIE]

Because there were no other option. The difference you xbots don't get, is PS3 went with blu ray because it's logical and to improve. We can put games on 10 disks but why? PS1 multiple CD no other choice, PS2 multi DVD no other choice, PS3 blu ray on other choice....Do you see the difference multiple disks is unexcusable when there is better solutions.

[XBOTSMUSTDIE]

Because there were no other option. The difference you xbots don't get, is PS3 went with blu ray because it's logical and to improve. We can put games on 10 disks but why? PS1 multiple CD no other choice, PS2 multi DVD no other choice, PS3 blu ray on other choice....Do you see the difference multiple disks is unexcusable when there is better solutions.

[BLACKJACK VII]

Smells like another multiplat that is about to be DE-LAYED...

Another developer resorting to data duplication to make up for the lack of memory & the 4x laser in the pS3....

[xplosneer]

yeah not so much...I'm not going to go to specifics, but Blu Ray drives @1x are MUCH faster than DVD drives at 1x.

[the worst]

this game is going 2 sucks

[AngryHippo]

.....we all know both consoles have problems. Developers will work around it i'm sure and the games for both consoles will turn out great.

[xg-ei8ht]

http://www.gamersyde.com/ne...

I suppose naughty dog better starting sharing their wisdom.

And sorry to say this, the framerate problems are nothing to do with the memory.

Some devs,i/e naughty dog,insomiac already understand a great deal and have sorted most problems associated with a new system.

For the record ps3 has 512mb ram split.

256mb system
256mb rsx.

Both parts of the ram be used to either part of the system.

But the biggest point is this.

Texture streaming from the disc, or hd. Is being used. How the hell do u think gears of war has so much texture.

Enjoy the pics:)

[SlippyMadFrog]

The RSX is locked at 256 and the CPU is also locked at 256, they can't use each others ram.

[Bonsai1214]

clearly you have no idea what you're talking about then if you believe that..

[gnothe1]

these guys never want to hear the truth!! the devs says there having memory problems on the PS3 an someone one yells out that both systems have the same amount of ram an people are using drugs!! they do have the same amount but one is split. john carmack stated on a post about that was on here about a month ago about the PS3 having less memory to use an you guys blowed him off too. with the 360 atleast we can use 2 dics or make content down loadable, you cant download more ram, so the PS3 is always gonna be gimped because of that!!

[Cryos]

and to what phantom HDD are core 360 owners going to download this content to?

[PS360WII]

So wait all the systems have their own respected shortcomings? Holy cats! When did this happen!

Well this game will be fun to play and hopefully all the kinks will be ironed out soon ^^

[Skerj]

Who read the damn article? Excerpt: "On the Blu-ray side we're really good, but then the memory is quite different. How we handle memory is really different between the two machines and we're struggling right now on the PS3."

Learning curve people, didn't say they were running out of memory or any of the other spins I see. They have to handle it differently than the 360 and well we all knew they had different archetectures from the beginning. On the plus side both parties are working with the developer to make sure the games are running well on their respective systems. Sheesh stop the fanboy circle jerk already.

[vasilisk]

Good one, bubbles for you sir

Anyone who ever played Halo 3 can tell me since x360's memory is so perfect why does it have framerate issues?

Also AC is NOT a linear game as it seems. So unless you want to change discs every 1-2 hours or so, you better hope that they fit it in one DVD.

[masterg]

Bubble for you.
I did not read the article :)

[The Wood]

for you, you spin buster

[PlayStation360]

man, I need to start reading the articles BEFORE I read the comments. After I read the article, it's true, there is NO WORD IN THERE that says they are having memory limitation problems. Just that it's different from the 360's. Bubble+ headed your way Skerj.

[computerjeff05]

With the 360 version why don't they just have English on the DVD and if you need a different language you can download it for free from the Marketplace?

[masterg]

Because that would exclude the 40% who has it without Internet connection.

[THC CELL]

and that dont stop u getting it buy language memory cards

oh and people wont get x box live cause its not worth the money
its a rip

Ps3 is free and every owner will be live by 2008

[Kirderf]

Just put it on two discs for the 360, as long the game is good, it's ok. As for the PS3 I'm sure of that it will come up with a good solution.

Edit: It maybe isn't enough with just having it on english, they maybe will have storage problem even if they cut all the extra languages. Well I'm just speculating here, I've no idea of how much more memory it takes with more languages.

[CaliGamer]

Why does the 360 version need 5 languages? The 360 is selling extremely well in the US (English), Britain (English), Australia (English), and some parts of Europe and maybe Spain (Spanish, French, German). They could get away with 3 or 4 languages, Japanese is not needed as 360 don't really sell there. Perhaps Dutch?? Strange.

[resistance100]

There are loads of languges in Europe, i would say about 10-15 at least

[CrazzyMan]

Did Ratchet had memory problem on ps3?
Did Uncharted had memory problem on ps3?
Did HS had memory problem on ps3?
Did GT5 had memory problem on ps3?
Did NGS had memory problem on ps3?

Ofcourse, if you will try to port game from x360 or pc to ps3, you will have some troubles. But if you develop game for ps3 only, you won`t have any problems, like those games above. =)

PS3 has different technology, different hardware, you want good results with multiplatform? spend more time, and you will get Oblivion, which on ps3 is best version(if you don`t use mods on pc). :)

[waldopepper]

Are you assuming that because a game is released on time, that the programmers didn't encounter any memory problems that they had to work with (or work around)?

Only someone working in the development team could really answer your questions.

[CrazzyMan]

i am only assuming, that those games have great graphics while having 256 vram and 256 ram.
and while x360 has 512 common memory, it doesn`t show better graphics, then in these games on ps3.

p.s. ut3 for ps3, haven`t read about any memory problem on that graphical monster. =)

[BigBadPolo]

Bubble for you Skerj! It is amazing, all the fanboys on here are always crying because they think the news is biased one way or the other. Now we get a non-biased, news piece about a game a lot of people are interested in explaining that BOTH systems are having there own respective hiccups and both sides are still girly slapping at each other. There is no pleasing those that follow the herd man.

[paracardium]

Still first year in ps3's life and most of the companies have finally learned how to dev for it. Ubisoft and EA are slow learners but are coming around.

[SabreMan]

"On the Blu-ray side we're really good, but then the memory is quite different. How we handle memory is really different between the two machines and we're struggling right now on the PS3."

has anybody actually read the article ???

i think some haven't !! do you know what the above statement means ??

it means both consoles have different memory architecture and as they are still at a learning stage with the ps3 they are struggling a bit to get around the way it works.
they are not running out of ram or the split ram isn't stopping them getting the results they want they are just learning how to use it

ffs read the articles before posting your blinkered fanboy trash

[rushbd]

and then they say it's basically same ??? UBisoft has again messed it up.

[Meus Renaissance]

They'll get the hang of it. I don't worry about the potential when I see the exclusive games for the console and what it is achieving with them.

[CBaoth]

the whole flamewar raging across the internet makes us lose sight of the most aspect to the game - how smooth does it play? Like I've said in other posts, it is INexcusable for next gen games to be riddled w/ framerate issues, interlaced flickering, graphical screen shearing, etc...I can't speak on Xbox360 titles (I don't own a 360), but this problem isn't limited to 3rd parties either. Lair and HS come to mind. Both those titles would have bought by me if not for the problems (and although HS runs perfect 90% of the time, it's that 10% that annoys the pi55 out of me).

[nobizlikesnowbiz]

Both games will be amazing...hopefully.

Just hoping for the sake of Ps3 owners that it isn't riddled with little annoying glitches...

Doubt it will though.

[popup]

Let's face it, both systems have RAM problems because you can never have enough of the stuff. Neither have anywhere near as much RAM as a gaming PC but even PC devs have to make some sacrifices to make the game work well enough for the vast majority of people who don't have 4 gig gaming monsters so that they can sell more than 200 copies.

Maybe the problem here is like trying to make a petrol car run on diesel.

It has not been established this early on the exact way to exploit Sony's (awkward) hardware to extract its best performance (look at the radical and bizzarre methods employed by Guerrilla) but when that does happen I will bet that 360 and PS3 code will look so alien and incompatible to each other that multi platform conversion will mean a complete rewrite rather than a copy, paste, alter, delete and squeeze affair that is currently employed.

Sony have a track record of bizzare architecture and you only have to wonder why...

[Sgt_Bon3head]

Why cant they compress it? I remember buying GTA:SA on a single CD-R. All 4GB compressed into 600MB. Now, that is called compressing.

[PopEmUp]

I had never heard of such thing as compressing 4gb into one single cd with 600mb man that gotta be suck to be you, anyway have you guy7s play GTA: SA on CD before man that kind of stupid if it real

[green_ghost5]

Why is it everytime I turn around, I hear some stupid "we can't fit this on a DVD" crap. I'll say this again! Look at Mass Effect! The game is huge! Guess what? It's on a f***ing DVD. Bioware can do it, they haven't complained about it either. Lionhead is doing it also, are they complaining? No they aren't! Fable 2 is going to be a big world. My point here is if Bioware and Lionhead, and others can make big game worlds on one DVD, then so can Ubisoft! Sure it probably does have it's setbacks.
I'm not trying to bash the PS3, but WTF, it has Cell, RSX, and bluray, but it has no RAM....

[Says you]

Dont seem to complain about the memory about the PS3 memory and there just the only ones complaining about it just take a look at other games that is on the PS3 those devolpers havent even complained about the PS3 memory or the developers of Killzone 2.

[dale1]

isn,t ubisoft responsible for the making of haze,now i must confess haven,t heard anythink about memory problems storage space etc from free radical.
this games gonna have split screen, single player, online etc what size is this game gonna be, and will it be a ps3 only because of dvd limitations or will they down scale it to fit on dvd?
ps3 is getting held back to much by the 360 space issues already
at least pes08 decided to add more content thank f*ck for that

[ThaGeNeCySt]

Free Radical is developing Haze

[me_p]

i wonder why the developers are complaining now? the game is due in Nov and if they were having these issues it was never ever reported earlier .. then why now,, when people are all dying to get there hands on with this game...

[Bloodmask]

The 360's problem is easily fixed by adding another DVD...Big deal. Can you magicly give the PS3 more memory?? I didn't think so.

Just another developer unsatisfied with the PS3's lack of video ram. This will most likely lead to frame rate issues.

[Skerj]

Really now? Can you please show me the part in the article where it said what you just stated? IIRC they didn't say they were running out of memory, they said they had to handle it differently.

[J@D]

Dude' open ur eyes a game like this can't be done on 2 DVD's. Oh, probably yeah... please insert the Damascus DVD' or Jerusalem DVD j/k.

The reason cuz ubi its fit all the data on one single DVD is becasue the game enviroment its so open and no linear compare with many game out there. THAT'S the huge different between a game on linear form splitter on 2 DVD and a game like Assassin's Creed.

[Real gamer 4 life]

Why dent these x box fanboy don't see the truth? they are having problems with the ps3 version because is a different architecture. Soon developer will learn how to develop for the ps3, but in the 360 they are having problem fitting everything on one disc.
So now no 360 fanboy cant say that blueray isn't needed, because third party developers are saying it themselves First rockstar and now ubisoft. there no denying the truth is a fact now.

[Real gamer 4 life]

Dude read the article before you post. they did not run out of memory is just that they had to handle it different because the ps3 is different.

[green_ghost5]

Try not to double post, you do know what an edit button is don't you?
I'm tired of everyone saying "oh, the devs need time to figure The PS3, once they do" then you guys always say something retarded like this "you xbots better run!! HAHAHAHA!" Stop making excuses for the PS3, it has some flaws just like anything else, yep sorry to ruin your day, but it isn't perfect. You may think that is. It isn't.

[cherdman]

I'd rather have disc space issues (resulting in multiple discs) than MEMORY ISSUES.

[BIadestarX]

you beat me to it! your freaken mind reader! bubbles for you!
Sony fanboys will never admit it... The PS3 None-Unified Memory Architecture and the fact that the system actually only has access to 196MB of RAM is proven to be a problem for developers... specially those developers that have to port games from the xbox 360 to the PS3.

http://ps3.qj.net/Working-w...

It's funny how these sony fanboys are always talking like if they know what they are talking about when it comes to computers... and they fail to understand or refuse to admit the basic need of any game machine... Memory is always the most important component. Game assets must first be loaded into memory before it can be processed and rendered. How hard is that to understand? The xbox 360 have more memory available that's already a known fact.
Only now is that Sony brainwashed their lemmings' brains and made them believe that the disc is the most important element of a game machine.

ohh look! my computer have more games than the PS3 and more graphically impressive games than the PS3 (crysis anyone) and no BLU_RAY player! how is that possible? Ram, GPU power! and software(DirectX) that's the key...

look at the recommended system requirements for Crysys.

http://www.crysis-online.co...

CPU: Core 2 Duo/Athlon X2 or better
RAM: 1.5GB
Video Card: NVIDIA 7800 Series, ATI Radeon 1800 Series or better
VRAM: 512MB of Graphics Memory
Storage: 12GB
Sound Card: DirectX 9.0c Compatible
ODD: DVD-ROM
OS: Microsoft Windows XP or Vista
DirectX: DX9.0c or DX10

OHHH GOD! DVD! NOT blu-ray?... mmm... how can that be?

I say make the game on the xbox 360 in 2 discs... it will not hurt anyone.. obviously Sony fanboys will cry about it.. but the real gamers will not care... they didnt care for the PS1 or the PC...

EDIT:
----------------
@thereapersson - I knew a Sony fanboy was going to bring this up, "It's because you install the game on the HDD, you dolt"... lol.. so I was ready... PS3 developers are also installing games on the PS3 hard drive to reduce loading time.. since blu-ray drive is slower to read from than the hard drive... forgot that? But the fact is that it the data from disc or hard drive must be transfer to memory is the same...

@Skerj - I guess you didn't read that the xbox 360 have more available to developers system memory. 196MB available for the PS3.... google it.

Kind of stupid how your Sony fanboy logic works...

Logic: If developers are having problems making games on the PS3 then is that developers are ignorants and need to learn how to make games for it. But if the developers are having problems making a game for the xbox 360 then is design flaws... interesting ehh?

[Skerj]

o_O did you even read the damn article Bladestar? Why would PS3 owners cry if the 360 gets the game on 2 discs? Why did you bring up the PC and Crysis specs? Of course the damn PC is more powerful than consoles no one disputed that, nor mentioned it. The advantage consoles have is because everyone has roughly the same hardware so developers can maximize that, whereas in PC realm you have a lowest common denominator to develop for.

To show it once again:

"On the Blu-ray side we're really good, but then the memory is quite different. How we handle memory is really different between the two machines and we're struggling right now on the PS3."

Where did he say they ran out of memory? Oh he didn't and you were just talking out of your ass? I'm so very sorry.

[thereapersson]

Your argument fails, Bladestar!

[The Wood]

your sounding desperate. just read the article in its entirety and chill. no need to raise your blood pressure. sony fanboys this sony fanboys that. *chuckles*

seems the ps3s only problem here is being new and different/ more difficult to work with. I also remember issues like this with both the ps2 and the 360. How comes you've forgotten this.

[Bonsai1214]

if you were going to copy and paste that stuff, you could have at least omitted the "12gb storage" part.. lol. you fail at twisting facts. just like how almost every pc game has that stage where it downloads stuff and stores it on the hdd, crysis will too. therefore the inclusion of a standard hdd is a good thing..

oh, and need i bring up that the average speed for reading of blu-ray is faster than the average speed of dvd? so developers need to put "essential" data on the outer rim of the disk, where it reads faster, and put less important stuff on the inner rim cause it reads a lot slower there..

[Dannagar]

The Xbox 360 has twice the Ram of the Playstation 3. PS3 has 3 times the storage on a Blu-Ray Disc. Blue-Ray does not improve visuals. Ram can directly effect the visual quality of a game or the lack there of. It will be interesting to see how UBISoft trouble shoots this.

[Korosuke]

bladestar's memory speak is ture and many dev say that, i.e. John carmack.
I think that low fps and less object things issues that many PS3(multi title) games have is coming from lack of memory. And dev don't do any tuning when port from 360 to PS3, mainly EA.

But Storage issue that bladestar bring up is not appropriate example.
Because Crysis(PC game) is needed to install in HDD, so in PC game, disc storage size is not important at all.

anyway, my worry is that fitting to disc is current problem ? Are they in time. relese date is next month...

[Z501]

They're having problems with the PS3 cause it's so different.(Obviously)
No where in the article did it say it can't be done.It takes time.
I love the fanboy spin here:-)
Now,on the 360 side,you guys say 2 disc WTF!
This game will be GTAesque,Remember it has horses.
Get on your horse........Please insert disc 2
Get off your horse........Plaese insert disc 1
Repeat for the next 10 hours.
And that's just a small scenario,imagine the more complex things.
DVD9 pfft!
Splinter Cell who?

[skynidas]

I hope that they dont delay the game

[sleepbox]

Less RAM is much more of a technological flaw than less storage space on the media...you can always have multiple disks...can't always reach up in the mobo and add more system memory.

[popup]

....and both consoles have less ram than an entry level pc.

Edit:- In this case I agree with the person who disagreed because they in fact have the SAME amount of RAM and an entry level PC (well a shoddy one with only 512MB of RAM that is!)

[CrazzyMan]

God of War
God of War2
Final Fantasy XII
Shadow of the Colossus

Ups? =))

[thereapersson]

I love all the idiots suggesting that 2 discs would work in a game such as this. Especially that one-sided ignorant comment by Bloodmask... holy crap.

Likely scenario:

"Oh man, this is great! Lots of open ended, uninterrup-... hey wait, what's this? Insert disc 2? Oh well, maybe it's just to load data into cache so I can have a true open-ended game. Okay, here we go again! WTF! Insert disc 1?! But I just put in Disc 2 20 minutes ago!"

Every time there is even a hint of developer trouble with disc space, no matter how small, the XBOX Damage Control Defense force comes to the rescue. At least they're consistent...

Straight from the article for ya fanboys!

"...He added that the developer, Ubisoft Montreal, had drafted in help from both Microsoft and Sony to make sure the game has "the same quality on both systems".

"The PS3 version is as good as the 360 version. We've been showing the PS3 version at E3 this year, but we've done a lot of events and it's just easier for us and for people from the press to have a 360. But the versions are the same, basically," he said.

He added: "Both have their own challenges. Right now we have a big challenge on the 360 to make it fit on a DVD, to put five languages, to put all the data on eight gigs. On the Blu-ray side we're really good, but then the memory is quite different. How we handle memory is really different between the two machines and we're struggling right now on the PS3. But we have people who are really dedicated and we're having help from Microsoft on one side and Sony on the other side to have the same quality on both systems. It really depends on the week basically as to who's best."

Owners of the PS3 will find comfort in the comments, having suffered some poor quality ports of 360 games since Sony released the console in March this year."

[BIadestarX]

"I love all the idiots suggesting that 2 discs would work in a game such as this. Especially that one-sided ignorant comment by Bloodmask..." dude... before you start calling people idiots... try understanding what you write... you obviously do not understand how a game excute on a game machine (PC, handheld, console, etc)...

No scenario or scene can be biggers than the available amount of memory available... why do you think even PC game which in most of the cases competely intall and run from the hard drive still say "NOW LOADING... PLEASE *!^@#&%! WAIT!"???? Can you guess? as stated in my previous comment because all assets(music, sound, textures, models, etc) must be loaded into memory before they can be processed and rendered....

What does that tell you? that your scene can only be as big as it can fit in your available memory... and that you can have 1 Terrabyte dic or hard drive and unless you have the same amount of ram it will never be able to use all assets on the disc.

Everytime you see "NOW LOADING" specially for those games which story line are linear.. that's an oportunity to add another disc.

"but... but... open ended games... like final fantasy and metal gear... where you can always go back to areas you were before.. woulnd't alow this!.... wahhh wahhhhh" actually.. Final fantasy 7 on the PS1 came with multiple disc and I remember traveling the entire world on the last disc... the story was linear though the world was open ended... all the CGI was played in a linear way.. so next disc didnt have to have that data... only the common assets had to be in each disc...

Learn your facts... lemming before calling people idiots...

"Oh man, this is great! Lots of open ended, uninterrup-... hey wait, what's this? Insert disc 2? Oh well, maybe it's just to load data into cache so I can have a true open-ended game. Okay, here we go again! WTF! Insert disc 1?! But I just put in Disc 2 20 minutes ago!"

Can you point to a game that does this? on the PS1 even? What's dump is that you don't understand how developers make games... they designed their games around the hardware specs... they will store data on disc base on what's available... Sony fanboys always talking out of their @$$ and never have proof to support what they are saying... show me that game that ask you every 20 minutes to swap discs?

Here educate yourself about technologies available on the xbox 360 to give developers more room on dvd9 disc.

http://vision.pcvsconsole.c...

Just remember... a game on the xbox 360 vs the PS3 does not equal the same disc space.... if a game is 10GB on the PS3 it may very well be 6 gigs on the Xbox 360.. simply because developers cared to add compression technologies...

[SlippyMadFrog]

"Every time there is even a hint of developer trouble with disc space, no matter how small, the XBOX Damage Control Defense force comes to the rescue"

Isn't your post exactly as you describe it - Damge control? don't you think that each time a port is worse on the PS3 the PS3 defence force comes to the rescue with "Developers are Lazy" and "Just wait till next year" comments?

[funkysolo]

Do you know what streaming is. Go play Rachet and Clank and you tell me where does it says loading when you go from one area to another area. It's funny xbots complain about PS3 memory, go play Rachet and Clank and see what 720p60fps look like on a nextgen console and They already stated that all of their games will run at 60fps. Not even a 3rd gen 360 title Halo3 ran at 60fps, I don't even think it ran at 30fps and it's not even HD. Play games bladestar, instead about complaing about games that you haven't played. I'm a PS fan, but I still play games on 360 just because I'm a gamer and to see for my self, instead of taking the word from the media. It's clear that every game release the PS3 gets better, but the 360 graphics stay the same and even when 1st party should be showing what it's suppose to be capable of...Multiplatform are a stupid comparison because in the end their still the same game...People buy consoles for exclusives and that's where 360 can't touch SOny...Remember that

[popup]

Bladestar,

What if a game like Forza or PGR4 had twice the tracks and twice the cars and online play could be on any track with 12 of any car at once?

Would everyone in the lobby be swapping discs to preload the data onto the hard disk before the race started? It is not hard to think of other examples.

It's okay moving from one disc to the next, its when it comes together online or when true open-ended games emerge and lose lineararity that annoying, chaotic problems will arise.

This may well seem far fetched to you but I have seen the 'I have enough space to rule the world' statement busted so many times in my life that I at least look at this and see possible scenarios and keep an open mind to the future rather than thinking my 4gb Nano can store my entire music collection if I encode it at 1kbps!

This is by no means a dig at the 360 like it seems to be taken by most people, it is just dealing with the reality of the evolution of needing more space that has taken us from cassette tapes to Floppy to CD to DVD to DL-DVD to HD-DVD/BD and the nay-sayers have been there all along ...

[Marty8370]

Compression is not always a good solution as uncompressing on the fly is very hard on the CPU.

BTW Cell(256Mb)ram & RSX(256Mb)ram. Both Cell & RSX can share ram pools.

[SlippyMadFrog]

No they can't. can you please give a link to an article that states that the RSX and CPU of the PS3 can share memory pools?

[kevin1122]

slippy, they can share memory. It's been known for quite a long time.

[PopEmUp]

Slippy ain't you stupid to even comment it man, don't you even know that Ps3 has 512mb ram split.

256mb CPU
256mb rsx.

Slippy are you trying to be a laughingstock for everyone?

[Nameless]

Again The Sony Droids show how messed up & immature they are when both systems are having problem with this game. I think both fan boy sides needs to call it quits on this subject.

[thereapersson]

If you acknowledge both versions as having troubles, then why point out "Sony Droids" when "XBots" are also bashing the PS3 just as bad here?

Just admit that BOTH fanboy camps are ignorant!

[funkysolo]

Bubble for you..It's a multiplatform game and as with any other multiplatform game it's the same, even if there minimal difference but still the same experiance.

[Ahmadinejad]

Capacity issue is far smaller and les important thatn memory oen because u get a scenario of a great game on 2 dvds and a poor fps and crap game on 1 blueray and usually the more intelegent customers know which oen to choose.all the complaints for 360 seems to be of the space and not the hardware architectural issue. changing a disk after hours of gameplay is so much better than getting choppy game every 3 seconds

[funkysolo]

and so much memory that it doesn't even run in HD..Do you xbots know what HD is ? HD is 1080i, 720p, 1080p. 640p is consider SDTV. I thought as time goes by 360 games would get graphically better instead they are getting worst. Go play Rachet and Clank 720p60fps 7.1 uncommpressed audio and let me know if you see any framerate issues.

[Ahmadinejad]

dude u clearly haevnt played halo 3 firstly(also read why they ddint put it in the resolutions u named and come back), secondly unlike you i own both consoles. thirdly 360 mgith nto ahve it but so far the memory problem and fps slowdowns have always been with the ps3 versions of every game created till date. i do own a few games on ps3 aswell and although i enjoyed resistance and but so far nothing that says ok this is superior and every other game i have actually though stupid to once defended it on power point of view, if u want to defend it talk about space on disk but on raw power i dont think at this point they are very close, hopefully soon they will be but thus far i am willign to stay skeptical, also go play orange box. its freakin sweet

[Real gamer 4 life]

umm again they didn't run out of memory. is that they handle it different because PS3 Memory Architecture different then the 360 that it. is just a learning curve, next time they wont have that problem, but on the x box side it will always have its 8 gb limit, and more and more developers are saying it. first rockstart and now ubisoft.

[Takumi86]

Has anybody here Play Warhawk tell me does that gamee has a memory Problem? warhawk has the most biggest map in any other console out there ,Physics check , Lag free check , destruction check , solid framerate no drop check , 32 players online ,

tell me does 360games has this ? nope Halo 3 is not even close and i dont think halo3 is lag free or 32 players at once and yah but 640p lol 2 player coop mode not in fullscreen so who has the Memory Problem now? THINK AGAIN PS3 only been out 10 months and already showing what NEXT GENis all about ,

[Herby]

For the Xbox part it sux that they're having trouble fitting the game on a DVD but I think the title is misleading on the PS3 part. There is no problem with the PS3's hardware as opposed from what the title says but more like the developer is having trouble working with it.

"How we handle memory is really different between the two machines and we're struggling right now on the PS3"

[pwnsause]

its becoming pretty obvious that devs need to make the PS3 the lead platform when it comes to multi-platform

[karlostomy]

YOU SAID:
"its becoming pretty obvious that devs need to make the PS3 the lead platform when it comes to multi-platform"

I completely disagree.
The developers themselves have chosen not to make the PS3 the lead platform for multis.
Do you know why they did that?

It is because MS has expended a HUGE amount of effort to make the 360 sku EASY to develop for.
That's good for developers and just smart business.

Who do you think the developers like to develop for first, the convenient and easily programmable 360 or the other machine with mystical potential, which is ..oh so difficult and precious to develop for?

That is why multiports start on the 360.

[Tone]

Well the sooner they start bringing out 360 games with HDD only on the box... the better, if you ask me.. then therewould not be such a problem with space, they can uncompress data to the HDD on the fly like they did with the original xbox.

I love how people are going on about the ps3's memory architecture like they now what they are taking about.. stop making fools of yourself.. its obvious your gleamming stuff from google, and most of it is wrong anyway btw.

I am sure with better dev kits etc, they would not have such a problem with PS3... Sony is to blame there, and they really have to start backing up the 3rd party developers.

[BubblesDAVERAGE]

and if you wann know the truth ps3 rsx is not known about it playstion never released its official specs..it is said it can do 512...that leaves ps3 with about a gb

[chrisin3]

Yes, the PS3 has the same amount of memory as the xbox360; however, the PS3 has the memory split down the middle. I know that Insomniac figured out how to pull memory from the RSX or Cell allocation to increase the memory on either the RSX or Cell to over 256. Why doesn't the development team for A Creed do the same?

Insomniac has been working on the PS3 longer though, so they are more than likely able to do more advanced things.

I think if Killzone 2 is running all right with the PS3s memory architecture, then I think ACreed will be just fine.

[PimpHandHappy]

i understand the memory issue. The PS3 isnt run of the mill and will take some time for some devs to use. I understand this

but space

if it cant fit on a 360 disk then it just means WE PS3 owners are being screwed over because game dev's will need to put a limit on what they can do on multi-platform games!!!!

Thanks MS for rushing your so called next-gen system out there. You have proved to me again u dont care about the gamers! You just care about are money!

[Funky Town_TX]

now you see how I felt playing crappy PS2 ports on my xbox1.

[Thugbot187]

I’m not sure I follow you at all. How does Microsoft rushing 360 out effect PS3 gamers? Both Sony and Microsoft were planning on releasing consoles at the same time. MS only thought they were going to beat Sony to the market by 2 weeks or 1 month at best. However Sony delayed because of issues with unifying the BLU RAY standard, plus they had a complete year to study the 360 and approve upon anything they saw they might be lacking. Things from Sony that show complete lack to gamers last Gen when they had the money they bought all types of exclusives so you were forced into playing it on a PS2 because PC and Xbox didn’t get much in the way of games.
One thing I can say I’m disappointed in MS about is the fact of the hardware failures for the 360. While I haven’t experienced one myself I know it sucks to have one and gamers at the end of the day just want to game without any problems; this they should have resolved. The second thing is why release a SKU with no hard-drive??? Outside of those issues MS has been good showing gamers love, grabbing better exclusives, having an overall better gamming library, making tools that raise the bar and help developers, and lets not forget XBL.

[karlostomy]

you said:
"ps3 owners are being screwed over because developers will need to put a limit on what fits on a dvd..."

COME ON MAN!!!
You are blaming the competing hardware for lack of PS3 content and quality?

That's scraping the gutter my friend...

If bluray was the key to graphics where are the mindblowing exclusives?
It's time to show me what the ps3 can/can't do.. puuuhlease!!!
Time to walk the talk, Sony

[Funky Town_TX]

2 years in and the 360 has media size problems.
10 months in and the PS3 has RAM issues.

And I listened to M$ and Sony at E3-05 and I thought both consoles were perfect.

[THE TERMINATOR]

How come COD4 looks better on PS3 then?

[Captain Tuttle]

I was in the Beta and it looked great on the 360...how'd it look on the PS3?

[karlostomy]

Lol nice title.

COD4 doesn't look better on the PS3.
Silly boy

[Captain Tuttle]

This game's biggest issue is going to be quality of gameplay no matter which platform it's played on...it looks like it could get boring real fast.

[J@D]

Exactly!.

[SIX]

and ram will not be a problem.

[Funky Town_TX]

no developer is worthy of the PS3. I would be pissed if I payed $600 for a PS3. Only to play $400 xbox games.

[THE TERMINATOR]

CAPTAIN TUTTLE
Read the preview from Game Daily you will soon find out

[Captain Tuttle]

Good for you guys...it's about time you get a quality multi-platform game. And it is a blast to play. Because it's of such high quality AND multi-platform I'd bet it gets GOTY.

[Bathyj]

Infinity Ward dont seem to be having problems with the PS3's RAM. You know that CoD4 thread that the Xbots are all strangely ignoring today. Now I know why, they think their cannon fodder is in this thread. This is getting just to damn silly.

[kvh22000]

A third party walks into a bar and tells the bartender he is having problems on both the 360 and the PS3. The bartender announces this to the people in the bar and suddenly everyone hates the third party developer and one another. The 360 fans say the Ps3 with the same amount of memory as the 360 doesnt have enough memory and the Ps3 fans say there disk which is 6 times the size is far superior to the 360 disk when all Ubi has to do is make a second disk. So whats the problem. Sony uses two 256 ram cards which devs are having a hard time with and MS does not allow devs (as far as I know) to use more then one disk for games. I own a PS3 and that is it. So here is the deal neither system (360 or PS3) or company (MS or Sony) is perfect. the sooner we all can deal with that the better.

[CrazzyMan]

"Still, as strong as Call of Duty 4 is shaping up to be in the gameplay department, the most immediately impressive aspect is by far its graphics. The PC, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 versions all look surprisingly similar, but that's not due to one platform being the lead; Infinity Ward personally assured us that development occurred simultaneously on all three platforms, and that there wasn't a base system. With that said, the console similarities end when it comes to textures, lighting and resolutions, because those three areas make the PlayStation 3 version definitely excel over the Xbox 360 SKU."
http://www.dailygame.net/ne...

LOL. =)))

[The Wood]

i thought the 360 versions were better on every single game known to man. Three wise men following a green star called bladestar, the mart and bloodmask assured me this was so

[SIX]

shhhhhhhhh...........alot of people are trying to ignore that article.

[misterssippi]

How is it a problem for the 360? Just put the game on 2 disk. WOW, do I get a medal for stating the obvious??!! Are people that lazy that they cant switch a disk?
I see though that a lot of Sony fans are skipping over the fact that the dude said that they are having serious problems and struggling with the PS3 memory format. What I heard was, the 360 game is done and they are trying to fit it onto one disk. PS3 version, is having memory isssues, so it isnt on disk yet.

See how easy it is to spin a story.

[computerjeff05]

Just put the game on 2 DVD's, I don't see what the big deal is. The map would be on two DVD's and you could still roam freely without changing discs. You just have to change discs when your halfway through the campaign.

[RadientFlux]

exactly... sort of the same way Final Fantasy 7 did

[N4M3L355]

I believe the 360 version will be just fine. I don't know if I can say the same about the PS3. Has anyone seen gameplay footage from the PS3? Hell, I remember seeing a recent interview w/ Jade and the interviewer asked her about the development on the PS3. She reminded me of that nervous student that knows their assignment isn't going to be ready by the deadline. Hopefully it won't be delayed, but it seems like delaying games are becoming all too common.

EDIT: Here's the video...maybe she's not that nervous, but she doesn't look confident.

[BrianC6234]

If Ubisoft kept this game as a PS3 exclusive the PS3 memory problem wouldn't be a problem. Going multi-platform most likely caused this issue. Next time stick with the PS3. I don't see other developers running into this problem on PS3 exclusive games.

[jackdoe]

The pros and cons of each of the consoles. Hopefully, they find a middle ground on both issues and that it doesn't hamper development time. The recent Video walkthrough on IGN has peaked my interest in this game once again.

[Bloodmask]

"I love all the idiots suggesting that 2 discs would work in a game such as this. Especially that one-sided ignorant comment by Bloodmask... holy crap."

Thanks for showing the "maturity" of a non-biased gamer by insulting everyones intelligence who posts in this thread, and also resorting to name calling. I guess your point of view must be "vastly superior" to everyone elses just bc you "pretend" not to be a PS3 fanboy.

I don't "care" which version is better albeit the PS3 or XBOX 360. I just know that "RAM" limitations are much more of a problem than "disk space".

I have been a PC gamer for over 10 years. So don't try and sloff off my post just bc you know that I prefer 360. It's funny that you seem to discredit everyone just bc they are a 360 fan. How many posts from me do you see from me that say "360 RULEZ" or "HAHAHAHHA"

Like I've said a million times the "architecture" of the PS3 isn't practical. Trying to re-rout things to access 2 different memory pools that run at different speeds. Or trying to re-rout things to the SPU's bc the RSX can't render them at an efficient pace. It is a constant pain in the neck for programmers.

[SuperSaiyan4]

If Mass Effect is on 1 DVD on the Xbox 360 why is AC having problems?

[BubblesDAVERAGE]

Mass effect barley fit...I remember reading it on gamepro it was from the devloper

[khellendros1]

Ok, I've been working with computers for a number of years but I must not be understanding something. Ok, the PS3 has 256mb of memory, yes? And the 360 has up to 512mb, yes? But the memory on the PS3 runs at 3.2 Ghz vs the 360's 700mhz. Data transfer should still be much faster on the PS3 if you do the math(512x700 vs 256x3200). It's just a matter of coding differently. Can someone tell me if I'm wrong on this.

[sheng long]

here's what i've learned today:
Some of you fantards have no reading comprehesion skills.

[ReBurn]

Finally, a statement in this thread that makes sense!

Bubbles for you!

[N4M3L355]

Just think about the proposed sequels for the AC franchise. If disc space is a problem now, just think about how this will hinder development in say...2008-10. I know the developers of Too Human said their franchise will continue onto the Xbox 720. I don't know if they meant the second or third installment. I know it's a bit off topic, but it's something to think about.

[computerjeff05]

There is no way this game will be released on time :( It will take at least 1-2 weeks to manufacture the game once the code is completely done. Plus all the final testing that needs to be completed once the code is done. Sounds like they are about at the same spot as GTA4. Probably won't come out until March :( What pisses me off is that they just now inform us of these issues. If I would of known this I would not have paid for the game in full last week as a pre-order.

[unlimited]

The PS3 memory they will have no problem with it once they learn how to use it right ..and for the 360 just released on mulitple disk..lol..well guess the 360 goin to get a lot of games on multiple disk

[BubblesDAVERAGE]

I saw this game getting delayed since e3 . I remember the showing it was horrible...so this holiday season is turning in to the most delayed games ever instead of the best holiday season ever..for all system from GTA,SSM,and trust me AC

[jiggyjay]

Yeah and its all Sony's fault! Devs are starting to think because Sonys Waitstation was delayed and that GTA 4 was delayed because of that POS console then its okay for them to delay their games! Sony Sucks!

[Ahhhh]

All the comments I'v been reading is about the 360 and if UbiSoft can fit it on on DVD. Im sure they will. Why is no one mentioning the problems with Memory on the Ps3?? Just Wonderin.

[N4M3L355]

Maybe Ubisoft will push it back to Q1 2008 like every other highly anticipated game. Oh well, I'll be playing Uncharted and maybe Haze for the holidays.

[chrisin3]

This is the important line: "How we handle memory is really different between the two machines and we're struggling right now on the PS3."

It's the technology shift that's an issue, not the amount of memory. Yeah, PS3 has 512 MB split, but it has to be used differently compared to a unified 512, which the Xbox uses. I think it's obvious (from a development standpoint) the Xbox's solution is easiest.

And you're all right, changing disks is not a super big deal, but it does seem sort of . . . out of place this generation. In today's sandbox games, it seems that multiple disk solutions pose more problems developmentally than they did before. If oblivion had to use multiple disks, I think it would be an issue, although not entirely impossible. But from a gamer's perspective, I think it would get annoying changing disks since the game is played an upwards of 200 hours by some.

I am not lazy (I do workout), but when I am playing a game this generation, I want my disk to stay inside my system the whole time I'm playing. As I said, it’s not a super big deal; although, it would really depend on the type of game, and the amount of swaps you would have to do.

We'll see what happens. I feel they will come to a simple resolution for both systems, so it really doesn't matter.

[cherdman]

Why haven't we actually seen the game running on a PS3...
...
...
Or have we?

[Pain]

Like many have said befor Make on PS3, port to other and trim the fat, problem solved
not gamers faults 360 is rushed and ram was beefed to mask shortcomings.

ps cells SPU's r its extra ram just gota learn to use them, look around other's r useing and learning.

[ReBurn]

SPU's are not RAM. They are processors. They accept data from the bus and process it, not hold onto it as storage place.

[Pain]

u know what i ment :P

[Darrius Cole]

I once had this explained to me by a very smart person. So I am explaining it to you. He simplified it a great deal in explaining it to me. I will trying to simplify even more than than.

Xbox 360 and PC programs work by the frame. You specify all the tasks that must be done in a certain frame, assign them a weight and a priority and load them into memory. When the CPU determines what is to be done in a given frame it send the tasks to another program called a scheduler. The scheduler works the tasks in order by priority and weight. This way of programming is easy, handles memory delay well because the program is frame based, but uses a lot of memory because you have to double buffer your tasks, once into general memory and again into the scheduler for processing.

Cell works differently; it is not based on frames but rather on a control thread. The control thread, which is in the PPE, looks for an idle SPE and loads it local memory (all the SPE's have their own personal memory) with the task. The SPE does the tasks and reports back to the PPE. There is no double buffering because the Control thread (in the PPE) simply dumps the commands into the SPE's. The result is that you need half the memory to do the same thing. But there is little room for memory delay, which explains why the PS3 has such fast memory.

The problem that mutil-plat developers run into is that, either because of lack of desire or lack of knowledge, they have problems making proper control threads. Some try not to make them at all. Without a properly written control the program will try to run on the PS3 the same way it runs on the 360, that is load itself into general system memory, copy its tasks into a scheduler, and make the system wait until all the tasks in a given frame are done. Running a program that way uses twice the necessary memory (double buffers) and leaves 80% of the processing power unused (doesn't offload work to the SPEs). Hence we get reports of "not enough memory." The developers are insistent upon wasting memory on double buffering and memory idleness while. PS3 and Cell were designed specifically to eliminate those problems.

P.S.

Cell can also dump textures and graphical data directly into the RSX RAM without having to copy it into the general CPU RAM. In contrast the 360 has to copy info in the general RAM and then into the GDDR.

[grifon]

XBOX360 just chang the flag so that graphical data could be access by xcpu or xgpu .

[Relin]

... because that made a whole lot of sense on many levels. Bubbles for you!

[rowdy 1]

But the DVD problem for the 360 will continue to be a problem as these games get more and more complexed.

[Bleucrunch]

It just goes to show you the 360 already has games that are multiple disk this is something that should come later not now. I cant imagine that GTA will be multiple disk but that is what is looks like.

[MikeGdaGod]

i'm glad to hear there are so many people on here willing to play games on multiple disks on their 360. they better get used to it.

[DaEnforcer]

Didn't MS say DVD is enough this gen? Well we can add this game to to ever growing list of games which can't fir on DVD.
Didn't MS say 720p is the new sweet spot and all games will run @720p + 4xAA? Well looks like 640p is the new sweet spot and sadly not all games have 4xAA LMAO

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

fun fun fun!

[kevin1122]

whats with morons like you, point out to me in the article where it says memory limitations.

[PopEmUp]

Don't be upset with him, he just a special kid which we all knw that he couldn't read and understand word that come out of this article just give him a chance

[gololo]

@themart:
you said "they only must push to limits to get the programming and compressing optimal." but if when you compress sound, textures, models to this date the algorithms to do that compression are lossy, meaning that some data might be thrown away, therefore compressing the type of files mentioned above might be of "less" quality...that doesn't happen with uncompressed files, the downside of uncompressed files is that the size can be huge, therefore the media that is used to keep these files (in this case DVD9) might restrict devs from using uncompressed data in the case they are developing a game with a huge amount of high quality models, textures and sounds.

[ATLRoAcH]

When Sony is dishing out the "Big Bang" today.

[SIX]

Yeah you're right! How about that big bang announcement..............

[PlayStation360]

I think the conference was confirmed to be a false rumor.

http://www.psu.com/Sony-den...

[power of Green]

Lots of people focused on the DVD size that should be very worried PS3's design will handi capp PS3 being able to handle true next-gen in the future. PS3 is stuck at 256 of Ram for game use. MSFT could suck it up and require devs to put games on more than one disc; PS3 is handi capped and will pay for Sony's design choices when PS3 gets left behind by the 360.

Hmm? smaller games! *or* less complex-less pretty games?, I'll take the smaller games I'm not a hardcore gamer anyhow.

[unlimited]

huh what r u talkin about?? the memory is the same as the 360..they just have trouble using it..once they get the hang of it there be no problem..like at killzone 2 unreal tournment mgs4 final fantasy uncharted. wardevil. ratchet and clank heavenly sword and warhawk..all amazing great looking games..

once they learn how to program the ps3 the memory shouldnt be no problem..

[PopEmUp]

Why don't you rename your user name into Power of Red and that stand for Red Ring Of Death and also replace your avatar with Red Ring OF Death.

Some kid like you are meant to be stupid cause you would never understand of anythings. Don't you know that Ps3 has 512 mb ram that it split into both part to run both from RSX and the CPU, by the way is it the fact that ps3 memory run faster than both pc and x-box 360

[Saint Sony]

Both are annoying problems but the PS3 memory one is harder to solve.

[chrisin3]

That was a good explanation.

[id dot entity]

Don't mind if they put the game on more than one disc. I mean, I prefer to interrupt my game to insert a new disc against playing a game you know could contain much more content which is being cut out because of space issues.

[razer]

Both platforms are suffering from the shorcomings of each system on these multiplatform games.

This game was already iffy and looked like a buggy garbage fest of a game.. Comments from the dev's like these have definately changed my mind from purchase to rent.

And the fanboy arguments on this site suck! Some of you need to give it a rest! You are not changing anyones mind.. You are not selling any more systems for MS/Sony/Nintendo.. It's a futile attempt that you will lose every time.. Waste away!

[PlayStation360]

after viewing both sides of the camp's comments, I must intervene. I may get some disagrees or loss of bubbles, but it must be said.

To my 360 brothers, the PS3 has no limitation problems with it's memory. The article says nothing of the subject. Not one word. They are having problems in the sense that it's much different than the 360. That's all. So as of yet, memory limitation is not an issue. Please read the article before reading comments and writing your own. I already made that mistake. :P

To my PS3 brothers, I highly doubt the DVD wouldn't hold Assassin's Creed to 1 disk. If Oblivion and especially Mass Effect can fit in 1 disk, than they can figure out a way to fit AC into 1 disc. No where in the article says this game will come out in 2 disks for the 360. So no need to jump the gun and bash something that is still working.

[wil4hire]

So here is my question. What happens when the information trickles down to everyone?

The PS3 is clearly different to work with, but Assasins creed has no more detail in it than Ratchet & Clank. When you are talking about polygonal data/textures/animation/code/s ound data. There are Ram issues if you don't know/aren't familiar with the ps3, but this isn't a PS3 specific problem. Like RROD. Its Developers who may not be as educated as Insomniac/Naughty Dog/Free-Radical.

Once developers like the guys who are working on Uncharted/Ratchet & Clank/Warhawk/Heavenly Sword/Lair/Haze share their secrets. The secrets that create 720p + games running at stable frame rates. This entire argument will go away. It is only a matter of time before all developers understand the PS3. Much like the developers I mentioned above, who again. All have stable detailed amazing titles under their belts, it takes time to understand new ps3 technology. This was the same for the ps2. Its not like it CAN'T be done. Which is a good thing.

Look at Gears of War vs Mass EFFECT. We can already see the limitations of the 360.

Gears of War has AMAZINGLY DETAILED characters, AMAZINGLY DETAILED WEAPONS, AMAZINGLY DETAILED **ENVIRONMENTS** to make 1 entire complete game. (which all fits on a dvd mind you.)

Now we have mass effect, instead of Amazing weapons/environments we get Amazing chracters and PDZ environments. There is no way in hell the 360 could crunch the data for detailed worlds & detailed characters. This is going to be the compromise that will keep happening in the world of the 360 due to its PC style setup. Which again, all fits on 1 DVD. the 360 will always be limited to 1 DVD.

Now look at Uncharted. Ratchet & Clank. Heavenly Sword, and Lair. Reviews aside, these are all technical & graphical marvels that every reviewer has agreed on. They look better than any multiplat as well. Thats my personal opinion. All Multiplats are being dumbed down for the 360. Which is unfortunate. We will see how much has to be sacrificed for the next Installment of UT3 when it comes to the 360.

The PS3 is getting these games at the beginning of the developers learning curve & game cycle. Where is the ps3 going to be a year out from now? When More and More developers learn from Naughty Dog/Insomniac/Factor 5/Free Radical etc. The games will look scores and scores better, as well as low loading times.

The BEST looking entire package game is Gears. Bioshock has amazing environments, but the scale is nothing compared to Mass Effect. Nothing has topped it since. Mass Effects characters look great, but thats because all of the polys were sucked out of the environment/no props/low vehicle details to support that fact.

[Lightning Mr Bubbles]

Is this game delayed in 2008 now? This game comes out next month, the only trouble they should be having right now is going gold.

[DZNetworks]

Anyone who ever played Halo 3 can tell me since x360's memory is so perfect why does it have framerate issues?

Also AC is NOT a linear game as it seems. So unless you want to change discs every 1-2 hours or so, you better hope that they fit it in one DVD. >>>

Ever hear of Hard Disc Caching? Microsoft has said it was ok for game companies to start utilizing the hard drive for space limitations.

[mithril]

Ever hear of Hard Disc Caching? Microsoft has said it was ok for game companies to start utilizing the hard drive for space limitations.

and core 360 users cant't play this games ???

microsoft politics, abandon core 360 users like Xbox 1 users ?

oh no, bye a 20Gb disk update for 150$ lolllll. Micro$oft ;)

[Grinchy]

Does anyone have any info on the Sony "big bang" announcement????

[Rowland]

I think this was it.

[mesh1]

haha funny how sony fanboys make a negetive ps3 post into 1 for the 360 call of duty 4 runn better on the 360 end off ull see =)

[HeartlesskizZ]

Problems will always be around no matter where.

[IBLEEDBLU]

another port built on the g@y60

dvd - no room - no kiddding DVD9 was last gen

PS3 memory problem - no kidding when u port this is what happens - if they built it on the PS3 they wouldnt be having this issue

lazy dev

[goodganja]

PS3 has the memory so we know that will be fixed with relative ease. But now 360 will be getting a condensed version of Assassin's Creed due to them rushing out to the market first and not preparing themselves for next gen.

So thank Micro$hit for their dated hardware and limiting the creative minds of developers.

R.I.P Xbox

P L A Y B 3 Y O N D

[ReBurn]

All problems have solutions. At this point in the game it seems odd that a developer would just now be bringing these issues out. Are these problems that are being discovered as a result of optimization?

[mikeslemonade]

This is obviously a 360 problem. Obviously they're trying to port the memory part of the 360 to the PS3 and it's not working. Notice they didn't say the PS3 memory isn't enough, but they say it's different. This is the 4th or 5th story in recent weeks that confirm 360 is starting to become obselete because the system is too conventional, so games progress way to fast, the HDD less for every system, the dvd, and the inability to display true HD. Stop buying 360s because you're only slowing the progress of games. Buy the PS3 so development can be lead on the PS3.

[AngryTypingGuy]

This is obviously a 360 problem? So, how long have you been a game developer, and what is your role at Ubisoft?

[Chris_GTR1]

it says there putting in 5 languages. ..well they can reigion lock it,or go the ps3 way and just extract the rest of the game onto the hdd then itll run half from the disk / half from hdd.

[mithril]

look my 95.1 comment

[Chris_GTR1]

mmm.. im shure theyll find a way to do that.. or else then core users will have to endure long waiting times, just like on gta3,and vice city wwhen you would go from 1 city to the next.

[AngryTypingGuy]

This just goes to show that no console is perfect, and both the 360 and PS3 have their pros and cons.

I see some idiots above try to blame this problem solely on the 360. The article does not say the PS3 doesn't have enough memory, just memory problems. What does "memory problems" mean? Obviously something isn't right. Maybe they can't use all the RAM in ways that they want to to run the game smoothly.

I love how when these types of articles come about, like the GTA one, Sony fangirls blame it on the 360. Do you notice how almost every game runs smoother on the 360? That should tell you something.

[Chris_GTR1]

ohh snap. you just figured out the secret message the dev was saying. + bubbles for u

[GamerForever]

I can clearly see that sony fans will get the ps3 even if sony says it is a s$it piece of crap and we made mistakes. Yesterday it was valve guy saying the ps3 architecture is all wrong and hard to understand. Today its ubi saying about problems with memory.

Who is saying that 360 has same ram as ps3 is Very WRONG. Its no where near the same. Dont say anything dudes if u dont understand hardware. I Know im IT Tech for over 10 years. Yes memory is same size on both consoles but that dosent mean they work the same way. The 360 has unified architecture which is perfect for gaming. The ps3 dosent have this architecture. 256 for rsx and 256 system ram. 360 has 512 which is shared between cpu and xenos. So dont talk bull people. If u dont know dont talk cause ull look dumb and ignorant to people like me.

The dvd size problem is no where near as bad bad as having memory problems. Ram problems are a nightmare for devs and games. I know from building myself many gaming rigs. MS knew very well what kind of system architecture devs wanted from experiance with pc gaming. This is what will make 360 better gaming machine.

[Lionsguard]

Complains about EVERYTHING, he's probably complaining about something this very second, he can't be trusted. PS3 may have ram issues but the dev's will soon learn to work with it. The 360's space restriction will be more of a hindrance down the road. As games get bigger and bigger they just won't fit on a 360 anymore (LA NOIRE). Oh and sure Oblivion was big but Oblivion won't stay the largest and greatest detailed game there is. Even if they do compress and compress and optimize huge ass games to fit on the 360, enjoy your loading times.

[CBaoth]

You know there are 2 articles about Assassin's Creed that have no comments because there is no inflammatory remarks in the topic heading. Have any of you fanboy drones actually taken the time to watch the montage video? It's terrible. How buggy can the game be? Everytime Altair runs around, the screen shearing is unbearable. And I've watched trailors for both consoles, IT SUCKS ON BOTH. Instead of arguing over nonsense, why don't some of you be more constructive and take Ubisoft to task about ruining a potential franchise...oh, and while you're at it, give hell to the reviewers who are too scared evidently to address this issue directly to the devs?

[Panthers]

They said that the memory was different, but that they are working it out and it will be the same game. They just need to learn it better. And the fact that you brought up the fat guy is just stupid. He complains about everything, ever.

The only way to fix the DVD problem is to make the game on a bigger media, which is impossible for Ubisoft since DVD is all Xbox has. 2 Discs shouldnt be a problem with most people though so that is fine. I hope both versions end up the same, which they probably will.

[kvh22000]

You said that no one has seen the Ps3 version run because its not on a disk yet...did you read the article?

The PS3 version is as good as the 360 version. We've been showing the PS3 version at E3 this year. (that statement came from the developers os the game)

The version you have seen is the ps3 version.

[Chris_GTR1]

LOL that was so halarious.. did u notice how he said "The PS3 version is as good as the 360 version." and not the other way around. LOL in a way he is saying the 360 is the superior hardware.

[ATLRoAcH]

Be nice!This is a programming issue.The 360 is easy to program why?Because its a computer with a console wrapped around it.Who hasn't worked with windows?

[ApocalypseShadow]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=...

some above have tried to use the PC as a comparison.PC's are not consoles.PCs are not used on tvs.not often anyway.but 360 is just inferior when it comes to hardware.not in games.HARDWARE.that's just fact.

the reality is that ps3 was released a year later and is going to have better performance.doesn't mean better games.but it gives ps3 the potential to HAVE better games.

ps3 games are going to potentially hit a higher resolution more often natively.

it's going to potentially put more onscreen because of the SPEs.

it's going to potentially have better features because it's all built in.

bigger medium that gets bigger with firmware(25-50gig to 100 gig or more)
standard but changeable hard drive to a bigger one
accessed from anywhere in the world
ps3s can be linked together to work together

360s medium will not get bigger
the hard drive can't be supported without screwing the core users
zune has no remote play function like psp
360s can't run in parallel to work together

those are just facts.compromises will have to be made on 360 to keep up with ps3.

hard drive support becomes mandatory
multiple discs will have to be used
games will have to be downscaled to fit the medium wich limits ps3 multiplatform games.

but that's the way it is.more devs will be saying this in the future.

mag lev.......................

[SofaKingReetodded]

and sony hasn't even unveiled their biggest weapon yet, once people realize what can be accomplished thru the cell processors's FLEX I/O port it will be game over for a long long time in the console war.

Here's a hint, you might see many "how many PS3's do you own?" lists on the internet...muahahahahahahahaha hahaha

[tordavis]

Microsoft should just dump the HD-DVD's with the game and charge $69 with the bundle. They've got to be thinking about this. I think maybe the launch of the HD-DVD was a plant for getting the units in homes to prepare for larger games.

[dfcm2003]

Sony stepping in and help with the new tech.(They even said a few weeks ago they were going to help out even more with there Dev, glad to see them honoring that) I'm sure Sony will teach people how to use the hardware. Also not so good news for Xbox. How do you get it all on a dvd? What can MS do to help? Its really simple, you will have to start cutting stuff out. I'm not a Dev, but I know you cant fit a square pig in a round hole, just want work. Also Its not good that this is happening already in the life span of the 360, Its only took 10 months of the Ps3, now 360 is starting to struggle with the disk size. It seems the Devs are starting to turn up the games, now that PS3 is out and they are seeing the 1st party games Sony is making, and I'm sure they want to be in the same class with their games.

[SofaKingReetodded]

Yes xbots you heard it right, with the right coding you can make ANY size game on the PS3 while the same is not true with 360 as DVD9's will NEVER get any bigger. Im currently working on a software architecture to not only maximize SPU turnover but actually PUSH them to their limits.

AGAIN it goes back to what I have said all along. I personally am not stuck in old ways of coding so I can easily make the transition to parallel programming while others that cut their teeth on the x86 architecture are having all sorts of problems thinking in multiple dimensions. THIS is the irony of the PS3, bad games don't reveal the consoles limitations but more the developers shortcomings as a software designer. This goes out to all the EA's and Gabe Newell's of the world.

How bout you boys try get your heads out of the anus of rotating conventional model space to simulate vision of movement and actually create a dynamic model loading and rendering raster system.

[Tyrael]

umm actually I would rather face the issue of putting the game onto two discs than i would of trying to compensate somehow for the PS3s lack of memory

[sak500]

LOL @ sony droids who are saying devs will find work around Ps3's ram limitation but DVD limitation is more serious. WTF are you guys smoking. Games can be marked as HDD required, and then install most of the code to HDD. Whats the big deal? If the devs are already sick of developing for problematic design of ps3 the how can you expect them to keep wasting time on a platform with half the user base of the 2 current gen consoles? One with the highest attach ratio where one AAA game can sell millions of copies, whereas the best title on ps3 has not crossed a million. You'd expect huge games to keep streaming data of the slower drive of ps3 since the vga card is having only 256mb? Did u bother to see how many ps3 games are installing on HDD? 95% of games are caching on hard drive of ps3 cuz of slowa$$ bd drive.

So suck it up guys, ps3 is more in trouble than 360 when it will come to highly detailed game environement.

[SofaKingReetodded]

the cell+rsx combo has access to over 400mb of memory,256mb of which can be the blazing fast DDR3 running at 3.2ghz

If you divi up your model,physics,graphics correctly you can do AMAZING things with this beast. That however takes problem solving software design and not code monkeys to accomplish. MS = code monkey heaven.

[Bonsai1214]

then i take it you haven't seen the ratchet demo yet... check out the 10 min vid. "detailed game environments" are very nicely showcased...

[IntelligentAj]

Did we forget that everything has a learning curve and that the 360 has been out for twice as long as the PS3 giving dev's more time to get acclimated to the hardware. PS3's problem seems to be with a learning curve. The 360's problem seems to be with disc space, which can be fixed fairly easily. Either require the HD, put the game on multiple discs, or find a way to compress the data further without a loss of quality. All of these things can be overcome with time and the willingness to learn(from the dev's standpoint)

[PopEmUp]

There were no limitation on the ps3 memory but there were limitation on DVD storage of the 360

[7ero H3LL]

put it on a second dvd..........and as for ps3.......add more memory.

or start striping both and get no sales.

[supnub5]

(stronger,faster,better,harder .)

[badkolo]

i just woke up to see this news and wow is this sad, dudes get a life.

jesus christ, maybe go playa game. I can see it now, in 3 years no consoles need to be made cause everyone will be on the internets arguing and not having any time to play games.

If this stuff gets everyone so crazy then im scared to see how we will all react when real trouble occurs. sad sad sad

[367 To Your Ass]

Ps3= 1bil vertices
360= 500mil triangles

1triangle = 3 vertices

SO

Ps3= 333mil triangles
360=...500mil triangles
ms didn't BS their vertex performance like sony did

just visit wikipedia and look up " http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... (for the PS3) and " http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... (for the 360)

and while you're at it, check out their GPU setup

360= 48way parallel pipeline (unified shader architecture) processes any number of mixed vertices and pixels up to 48 alu's (allowing devolpers EXTREME flexiblity to switch priorities in their workload and use dynamic flow control)

Ps3= 24 parallel vertex pipelines + 8 parallel pixel piplines =only 32 available pipelines (severely restricting pipelined shader ops, thereby requiring tighter management of shader ALU resources, resulting in developers with hella headaches)

also, since the pipelines in the RSX are restricted to a "standard" shader array", the architecture resembles that of a Gefroce 7000 series, whos direct competitor was the Radeon X1000 series. The Xenos on the other hand is almost transistor compatible to its NEWER series, the Radeon HD2000s, thereby skiping ahead of its OWN series, and using something that the ps3 just plain wasn't built for: a dynamically restructurable and super pipelined parallel unified shader pipeline.

[7ero H3LL]

the ps3's graphics chip is just a 7xxx series chip

360's graphics chip is a highly modified r520 closer to the Radeon HD2000s series.

the R520 that most people keep on pointing to
is the original chip which is much much weaker.

[karlostomy]

360fans state facts regarding hardware.
PS3 fans rant and rave about hype and (unrealised) potential
This is getting predictable and boring

PRAYNOMOR3D3LAY

[Grinchy]

Am I missing the point? How has memory differences become memory limitation? Does difference and limitation now mean the same? Does this mean fanboys of opposing sides can have a limitation of opinion? Also, 360 struggling with space is no suprise, but compression does keep improving. I am sure that they will fit it onto one disc. Maybe they know how people would react to something like this, it gets people thinking about the game again.

[cpuchess]

Seems odd to me that Ubisoft would wait until the end to find out if their game fits on a DVD. They did take the games to different shows around the world and they were running on the 360. So they must of had a good idea on how much room they had. This article smells like flame bait to me, I bet Ubisoft is not having that much difficulty at all.

[cheatmaster28]

I think the real reason this is here is because oonce again developers of assassins creed dont dont know what they are doing and are trying to find an excuse to delay it.

[Enigma_2099]

Here's to hoping they find a way.

[heavyarms]

I personally feel that not having enough memory(ram) on the ps3 is the bigger problem. Because you can always provide downloadable content to the 360.

[cheatmaster28]

you are aware that ps3 and 360 both have the same RAM right? both at 512 mb.

[Covenant]

Sooo....they're having problems developing for BOTH systems?

Let's see how the fanboys spin this one.

[jay2]

I smell a delay to both untill it comes out on PC sadly :(
I hope not, looking forward to this game.

[jazzmanb]

anyone who still thinks the ps3 is more powerful are dilusional..sorry but its the truth..if you dig the games coming out for the ps3 more than 360 thats one thing...but when you state that the 360 is holding the ps3 back,your on crack..simple as that..the 360 is built for developers,has a far better graphic card,unified ram,can do way more advanced shaders,and generally runs games smoother.....its true...no more lies,the 360 is the more powerful system,and btw uncharted looks like great fun,but it doesnt look half as insane as gears[from a graphics standpoint].....

[Skerj]

Uh go look at Killzone 2 and MGS4 games that aren't even finished yet, then go play Halo 3 and come back and repeat that please. Also the PS3 can do Gears, it's called Unreal Tournament 3.

[jazzmanb]

anyone who still thinks the ps3 is more powerful are dilusional..sorry but its the truth..if you dig the games coming out for the ps3 more than 360 thats one thing...but when you state that the 360 is holding the ps3 back,your on crack..simple as that..the 360 is built for developers,has a far better graphic card,unified ram,can do way more advanced shaders,and generally runs games smoother.....its true...no more lies,the 360 is the more powerful system,and btw uncharted looks like great fun,but it doesnt look half as insane as gears[from a graphics standpoint].....

[XBOTSMUSTDIE]

How many games on 360 look better than Rachet and Clank, Heavenly Sword, Uncharted. NONE!!!!!Let's get this straight just to show you how stupid you are PS3 been out 10months, 360 been out 2 years and none of their games can touch the graphics on PS3 1st gen games.....Yeah I see you xbots want to buy a next gen console and play it on SDTV mode...I see your point

[jazzmanb]

sofaking,you make no sense,and any and every developer well tell you how the ps3 architecture is crap..doesnt matter how much time developers have,ps3 games well ALWAYS have problems...the ps3 is dying slowly because of costs of blue ray,and loss of developer passion..seriously developers hate the ps3.

[jazzmanb]

sofaking,you make no sense,and any and every developer well tell you how the ps3 architecture is crap..doesnt matter how much time developers have,ps3 games well ALWAYS have problems...the ps3 is dying slowly because of costs of blue ray,and loss of developer passion..seriously developers hate the ps3.

[vickers500]

No worries. They can just compress and degrade audio quality or something.

[ElementX]

Why don't they just release German, French, Spanish, and English together for most of Europe, English/Spanish/French for NA, and whatever other languages just release as needed? Why do you have to fit 5 languages on one DVD? People in the US won't be needing French (maybe for Canada with their French Canadians), unless they want to, but who does that? People in Canada won't need German, unless they study it in school and want to play auf Deutsch :) I mean, come on! Quit b!tching and do the most reasonable thing to solve the problem. It's common sense.

[doomsonyman]

bladestar hahahahahaha you only have 1 bubble left i hate you so much

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

"On the Blu-ray side we're really good, but the memory is quite different (in other words there isn't enough) How we handle memory is different between the two machines and we're struggling right now with the PS3."

You see "Droids" the Xbox problem can be solved by useing another disc (allthough annoying) the DVD side of things are like this on all consoles and PC accept the PS3 (wich is why you guys whine so much) but... the problem with the memory on the PS3 ("it's a myth it's a myth") can't be fixed (bottleneck design) So bottem line is both consoles are gimped but the 360 side can be worked around while the PS3 just stays gimped (unless Sony wants to retrofit PS3s HAHA).

http://kotaku.com/gaming/as...

[Young Capwn]

u cant do multiple isks on openworld games like this just like GTA

[Skerj]

It's funny how you JUST POSTED the quote and STILL managed to somehow put the spin and misinterpret it. Where did they say bottleneck?

[Proxy]

All those who have been discussing the PS3's lack of memory, will you please show me where this article says their is not enough PS3 ram?

The article says their having problems with the ram because it's "different." The article then states that their are space issues on DVD and then everyone thinks "space issues on DVD -> PS3 ram problems -> PS3 ram space problems."

Where does it talk about PS3 ram SPACE/SIZE problems?

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

http://forum.beyond3d.com/s...
http://www.xbox365.com/news...
http://ps3.qj.net/Bethesda-...
http://ozymandias.com/archi...
http://www.associatedconten...

Don't get mad because you got pwned, if Xbots can accept the DVD cap then you can accept the gimped PS3.

[kevin1122]

so many of your links jason have false information it's not funny.

[sniddles]

good work on the links,

[XBOTSMUSTDIE]

Do you know why PS1 and PS2 had multiple disks? There wasn't any other option better at the time. So you see xbots why you try to make your case about multiple disks, there is no reason for multiple disks because we have come to an era in gaming when multiple disks are history. Open your eyes and think about it.

[Wii60_FTW]

so put it on 2 DVDs. ps3 is still stuck with its sh1t ram.

[DJ]

The XDR RAM and GDDR3 RAM are separated, as they should be. CPUs should run off of CPU RAM, and GPUs should run on GPU RAM; doing it the 360 way leads to way too many performance deficits.

If they didn't plan ahead and build a unique engine for the PS3 architecture, then their engine is basically shot performance-wise. They need to take advantage of the 35 GB/s connection between the two memory pools, or use Cell to render certain aspects of the environment/characters. Warhawk, Killzone, and several other titles are already doing this, and it makes sure every MB of RAM is used to its full potential.

[pornflakes]

the only think PS3 users can bash xbots is about their FU**EN BLU RAY, hahaha, thats why the rest of the world is pis*ing on SOnys crapsole. They want games, and dont FU**** care about how much CD's they have. And if a FF13 would have for example 3 Blu rays than PS3 boys would say "haha, the 360 would need 10 discs"..

omg get finally a life ya tards.

We all know the PS3 ia a hardware failure. We all see that with MGS4.. the crap textures expect of Snake.

If you want to have all good in game = to less memory with the PS3.

I remember the times dreamcast vs ps2.. always a bashing which one got the better graphics and now in 2007?? The stupid ps3 boys talk about their 1 CD games cause thats the only think they can..

ah sorry.. and the Rrod problem oc.

tards

[Real gamer 4 life]

its not a memory RESTRICTION, just vastly different architecture, READ THE ARTICLE BEFORE YOU POST.