Sony Suing Geohot, Fail0verflow, others over PS3 Hacking

"As of 1/11/2011 7:20 PM EST, I have been served with papers, see below...

Motion For TRO
Proposed Order

old front page, with relevant info removed, is here

contact me geohot ... gmail"

From Fail0verflow's Twitter http://twitter.com/#!/fail0...
"Looks like Sony decided to ignore the facts and sue us all for it. See http://geohot.com/"

From Hector Martin's Twitter
http://twitter.com/#!/marca...
"Ah, so Sony decided to sue everyone under US law. Guess I won't be visiting the US in a while..."

From Muscle Nerd's Twitter
http://twitter.com/#!/Muscl...
"EFF has done a fantastic job keeping iPhone jailbreaks (not piracy!) legal..hope they can do the same with this PS3 news"

[Romudeth]

Good and I hope they clean these people out and leave them penniless on the street. Geohot and Fail0verflow are criminal scum and deserve to be severely punished.

[LordMarius]

Yay Sony!
Now bring on the bans for those who are hacking the PS3 and connecting to PSN. Keep my online experience cheater free(not counting Call of Duty). Keep your homebrew offline

[JhawkFootball06]

Not only will this lead to Geohot and Fail0verflow to stop releasing hacks for the ps3, it will also make other hackers very hesitant to release new information due to being afraid of legal issues

[blumatt]

They deserve it. The only reason why these people are wanting to hack the PS3 is to play illegal ROMs and try to pirate PS3 games. I hope they get fined at least.

[Sarcasm]

It's pretty lame how they keep trying to act all innocent.

[JhawkFootball06]

Sony could very well lose this case. There was a reason Apple never chose to sue Geohot, after he continues to hack almost every firmware they release for the iphone.

[EyeContact]

@JhawkFootball06

True, but notice the charges. they intend to sue everything but the hacking part, because it is a flawed argument. Sony is just throwing everything on the board hoping something would stick.

I think its more of a desperation act if you ask me. Hoping it would slow down the jail break and deter the hackers for a bit.

[ProjectVulcan]

Begun, the legal war has.

I'm interested in seeing how he escapes from this unharmed if he did indeed agree to the PSN user agreement. Im curious to what legal protection that particular section affords SCEA in american law. As far as i know that would give sony more leverage against this than just say an iphone with no strictly enforced terms of service by apple

[evrfighter]

Actually hawk what this does is attract the attention of all the other hackers. Most would not hesitate to go after corporations when they smell blood. Apple tried to sue him already. Not only did they lose but it is now legal to jailbreak.

[HolyOrangeCows]

And after FailOverBilbo and Frodo, the rest of you hobbits are next! lol

Glad to see action being taken against these creeps. GeoNotz exploits companies for his own gain of E-peni.

And don't give me the "Homebrew" crap. If you wanted to do homebrew stuff, you could do twice as much on hardware that these common hackers understand....a PC.

[Prototype]

The sooner the better, also I hope everyone who does hack the ps3 gets bricked, their Trophy Score reset, and banned from psn

[jerethdagryphon]

they accepted the sony psn agreement when they made an account, which they have to make to use the system

ive read the papers and most of there points are valid,

this will cause harm to sony and they have violated copyright laws good luck sony

[morganfell]

If you think Sony are throwing everything on the board hoping something sticks then you are wrong. It's called take a hammer to a glass nail. They are sending a message to every hacker out there that they will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Do you not realize that Title I of the US DMCA, the WIPO Copyright and Performances and Phonograms Treaties Implementation Act has provisions that prevent persons from circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work.

That means if a manufacturer has some kind of program, USB dongle, or password protection measure installed in the software/hardware to prevent illegal access, any attempt to bypass such a measure is in itself illegal. It isn't just copying the games but under DMCA jailbreaking game consoles is illegal.

If you don't think Sony has a case then you need to review the DMCA, the WIPO Treaties, and the US Federal Software Piracy Laws The Copyright Act (17 U.S.C.A. § 1 et seq.) And that's just one law that doesn't include the State of California. State is icing on the cake as their crime is a felony under federal law.

Try $250,000 and 5 years in jail for criminal liability and $150,000 for EVERY software infringement. Take every game they made playable illegally and multiply that by $150,000.

When they get out of jail the only thing that evil frodo is going to be hearing is, "Super Size me." Welcome to a life of financial ruin where you will not be allowed to own a computer or even a smartphone. And just remember this you little worm geohot. You asked for it.

[Best]

This won't stop anyone from pirating games. Sony, the battle is lost.

[Ryudo]

Am sorry I know am gona get fan raged for this, and am not a fan of piracy but...

I would rather not be sued every time I decide to mod a piece of hardware I bought legally with my own money.

So I hope this case if it's even real fails so badly.

[zag]

Geohot is in the USA and he's a goner.

he'll be bankrupt for the rest of his natural life.

If a mother can be done over for 200+ million dollars from a jury as well so what do you think he's going to get in a US court.

Apple will be next on the door step and they have sued people for jail breaking.

I bet his dad going to be pissed big time as he runs a tech company I'd say he could lose his job as people generally don't want crims in their business ripping them off even if they aren't directly linked.

Sony will be doing him for the decryption and the reverse engineering that's a huge no no in the USA, as well as being an enabler of piracy on the PS3 system.

he'll be in jail with a huge payout to sony or not in jail but still have a huge payout to sony.

real life baby! gotta love it, bitch kicked in tha bwals, he'll have to get used to it and once your 21 it sticks for life, bye bye tech jobs.

[sunnygrg]

I hope their mothers are rich enough to pay for their legal damages in the ensuing court battle.

[d3nworth1]

yes you bought the hardware and can do what ever you want with it but when you use it to play pirated software then the company has a right to step in.

[rockleex]

They are being sued for using releasing Sony's private keys and using it to run their own unauthorized software.

In other hacks, homebrews, and mods, they never had to sign their code with the official key. So therefore its hard to sue them. All they did was get rid of security.

But this time, its TOTALLY different. They stole Sony's private key and used it to sign their own codes without Sony's permission.

That's VERY MUCH against the law.

That's like me stealing McDonald's private recipes and releasing it to the public so everyone can make their own McChickens or Big Macs.

[Mahr]

"Do you not realize that Title I of the US DMCA, the WIPO Copyright and Performances and Phonograms Treaties Implementation Act has provisions that prevent persons from circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work."

Sorry, Charlie, but the technical law is irrelevant; whether or not a court will enforce that law is what actually matters. And the courts have ruled time and time again that laws involving the circumvention of copy protection are insufficient grounds to prohibit fair use.

Read 'em and weep.

Decrypted and copied DVDs in Norway. http://www.itworld.com/0301...

Mod chips in the UK and Australia.
http://www.kotaku.com.au/20...

PS3 Jailbreaking in Spain.
http://www.barcelonareporte...

iPhone Jailbreaking in the US.
http://www.wired.com/threat...

How about console mod chips in the US?
http://www.xbox-scene.com/x...

http://westlawnews.thomson....

"That means if a manufacturer has some kind of program, USB dongle, or password protection measure installed in the software/hardware to prevent illegal access, any attempt to bypass such a measure is in itself illegal. It isn't just copying the games but under DMCA jailbreaking game consoles is illegal"

Right, and that law is garbage, which is why the courts, across countries and media formats, have decided against enforcing it and its ilk. Heck, if the prosecution in the Matthew Crippen case had not imploded, we would almost certainly *already* have a precedent striking down that little provision and ensuring full legal protection for the modding community.

"Geohot is in the USA and he's a goner.

he'll be bankrupt for the rest of his natural life."

This is exactly the type of case that the Electronic Frontier Foundation -- which has argued successfully against Sony before (and which won the iPhone Jailbreak case) -- undertakes for free.

The merits of the case strongly favor Geohot, and a favorable decision for him will be landmark precedent legalizing the use of Homebrew on *every* console.

It's been a long time comin'.

[MeanOldman]

too bad mahr. for ever case you nitpick theres a hundred others where the rulin went the other way. nice try but you fail.

and sony and ever company with anything to lose an their lawyers > over the eff.

heres what dudes like you ignore. jaibreakin is for some phones an then its only for software you already legally own. sorry dude but the technical law has been enforced a hundred times for every exception. these guys are goin down and them an their pirate buddies have ruined their life. bye bye now.

[zeeshan]

Most of you guys are missing the point here. This will anger the hacking community and will work towards uniting hackers. A couple of people trying to break a system's security is one thing but a whole bunch of them is going to cause some serious problems for Sony.

Leaking something on the internet while remaining anonymous is not at all a big issue! You can easily have a contact outside US and get them to leak your work. Sony, M$ and Nintendo can't do ANYTHING to win this battle by going after one person or heck even a group. The sheer number of hackers out there can beat even these giants and we have seen this happen in the past with the most recent one being PS3 security getting compromised.

Really, I believe this will unite all the hackers and is going to become an ugly war between Sony and hacking community and I seriously doubt Sony's chances of winning this one.

[Mahr]

"too bad mahr. for ever case you nitpick theres a hundred others where the rulin went the other way."

If there are a hundred, then it would have been very easy for you to link me to them.

"nice try but you fail."

My cases have the benefit of being real; yours are imaginary. I win.

"and sony and ever company with anything to lose an their lawyers > over the eff."

Sony has fought the EFF before. Sony lost.

Established fact > your opinion.

"jaibreakin is for some phones"

Your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired. All those courts in all those countries said it applied to consoles -- and the courts in the US have given every indication that they will say the same. It is just a matter of time.

"sorry dude but the technical law has been enforced a hundred times for every exception"

You do not seem to understand the concept of legal precedent. Those cases are not 'exceptions'; those cases are now the supreme law of the land in those countries.

"these guys are goin down"

You want it to be one way -- but it's the other way.

[Vherostar]

Ms used piracy to sell consoles.. Sony sues people who use piracy.. Massive difference in approach here.

[MintBerryCrunch]

i've already said this once...but people arent getting what a TRO is

No one has been sued yet and this isn't really even a "lawsuit", again, yet. All Sony has filed is a Motion for TRO (temporary retraining order) asking that all jailbreaking tools and information be removed from the web and all hardware associated with such tools be impounded. Sony has not filed a complaint for copyright infringement.

[MeanOldman]

you wouldnt make a very smart criminal mahr. better keep walking that line. cause according to you its smart to commit a crime cause you think the law will get changed before you are prosecuted. good luck with that. want to hedge millions of dollars and 5 years in jail?

put your money where your mouth is mahr. if you are so convinced you are right lets see you do something besides talk about it.

an open a ps3 hack site an start carrying geohots hack for download. lets see who believes most in what will happen.

you or me.

i bet its me. otherwise you need to just start walkin pal.

[HappyGaming]

Lol I guess Geohot didnt get the job offer he was asking for from Sony...

Note Geohot: In your CV next time don't say:

It would be fun to be on the other side
(and than give out a code that harms that company)

The first line makes it sound like you see this job as a joke and that you are not serious or stable. How can Sony know you won't fuck them over again if you are unstable?

The second line makes your first line sound even worse.

[DelbertGrady]

I never knew Sony had this many defense lawyers. lol.

[sikbeta]

HELL YEAH!!! Right in your F@cking Faces Douches!!! HUA! Make them Pay SONY, make them pay!!!!

[NeutralGamer]

now THAT is how you deal with piracy :D

[batterystrength]

18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(7)(B) – Intent to Extort:

(a) Whoever—
(1) having knowingly accessed a computer without authorization or exceeding authorized access [...]

...(7)with intent to extort from any person any money or other thing of value, transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication containing any—

(A) [...]

(B) threat to obtain information from a protected computer without authorization or in excess of authorization or to impair the confidentiality of information obtained from a protected computer without authorization or by exceeding authorized access; or

(C) demand or request for money or other thing of value in relation to damage to a protected computer, where such damage was caused to facilitate the extortion;
shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section...
________

Didn't Geohot say something like if they want a secure system they should hire him ? Or am I misinformed ?

[DragonKnight]

To the people justifying what these people do claiming that they are only modifying something they already own, I once again adamantly reiterate that THEY DO NOT OWN THE SOFTWARE!!

Look, you want to perform case mods? Go ahead, Sony can't stop you. They won't pay for repairs if you break the console in the process, but they can't stop you from making the case mod. You want to rearrange the locations of circuit boards, heat sinks, fans, the laser or disc tray... you can do that too. Replace the blue laser diode, all the power to you and Sony won't go after you.

But the SOFTWARE is owned by Sony. Every time you agree to the TOS, you agree to that one little fact. So everything you do to software you don't own is illegal. It's a plain and simple fact. So, sorry GeoHot and Fail0verflow, what you did was in fact illegal.

[deafwing]

wow the comment count is amazing Batman!

:p

[fossilfern]

YEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! happy days!

[MerkinMax]

They were well aware of what would happen when they released the mods. People have froze my PS3 intentionally while playing MW2 which is complete bullshit.

[deafwing]

I think failOverflow, if sued and the the lawsuit actually gets anywhere (maybe months from now) .. they'll fight this statement

"
18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(7)(B) – Intent to Extort"

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[NickIni]

Quite amusing the amount of 'wanna-be' lawyers on here. Given what happened with Apple, Sony wouldn't have rushed into this, they'd have definitely given it more thought and analysis than asking a couple of 14-year-olds on the internet who apparently seem to know more about the law than professionals. They must be pretty certain they can win it too and will throw a large sum of cash at it.

And the people who are wanting Geohot to win shouldn't be calling themselves Gamers.

[WhittO]

So they should, I hope they bleed them dry so they are too scared to hack any other future consoles/devices.

[pixelsword]

Because you're all about to experience a world of pain.

[Mahr]

"you wouldnt make a very smart criminal mahr"

I have in modded in some fashion almost every single console I have ever owned, and I have owned a considerable number of them. According to your bizarre logic, that already makes me a criminal, now, doesn't it?

And yet here I sit, in good conscience and in precisely zero fear of ever even getting arrested, let alone going to jail, for anything.

"good luck with that. want to hedge millions of dollars and 5 years in jail?"

Are you admitting that even though I am a modder, I am not *already* on the hook for that punishment? Many thanks for proving my point.

"Quite amusing the amount of 'wanna-be' lawyers on here. Given what happened with Apple, Sony wouldn't have rushed into this, they'd have definitely given it more thought and analysis than asking a couple of 14-year-olds on the internet."

This was the exact same argument I heard when Sony was trying that case in Spain. You know, the case that they lost. And in losing, legalized PS3 jailbreaking throughout the entire country. And where afterward Sony was actually forced to pay damages to everyone it had sued over the issue.

Yeah, that case was pretty awesome. I think someone posted a link to it above.

"They must be pretty certain they can win it too and will throw a large sum of cash at it"

Literally every major corporation that has ever engaged in a lawsuit has thrown a large sum of money at it. But thankfully, the modern justice system is designed such that you cannot win every case by virtue of the fact that you have gajillion dollar lawyers. See above for examples.

As for the 'careful analysis and certainty' argument, that is very easily refuted by the attempts to charge all the members of Fail0verflow, the majority of whom do not even live in North America, with violations under US law. There is absolutely no intellectually-honest way by which a person can believe that such a path has any chance of succeeding.

It is a complete and utter act of desperation. And based off the merits presented, there is no reason to believe that suing Geohot would be *any* better.

[SkyGamer]

I like how everyone ASSUMES that the whole reason why people hack systems is to pirate games. Maybe some people are pissed because sony took out features? Maybe some want to use homebrew. Not all people pirate games. Besides, if they put a game on their hdd and do not distribute it, maybe to test the game out before buying it, what is the harm in that? If a game is really worthy of your hard-earned money, then you will buy it. I bought Halo Reach Legendary Edition, RE4 Gold, Castlevania LoS, Nier amongst others KNOWING full well I could have pirated them but I chose to support the devs. What most people don't realize is a small factor called "free will."

"Just because you can doesn't mean you will." - SkyMan

[blahblah]

@JhawkFootball06

so you didn't really read the papers;) if you would you would see how desperate sony lawyers were. either that, or they are just so bad firm, they shouldn't ever step into courtroom

didn't see so lame and desperate attempt since SCO. by the end of second one i was just waiting the part where they say Geohot is the party responsible for global warming.

if you read the first paper, you can notice how they want to throw pirating games on them... by using Twitter message. that was funny as hell. for extortion... rofl

[jidery]

I hope this guy gets owned, he is going to cost Sony millions.

[theonlylolking]

He is costing gamers games and well everything gaming.

[EyeContact]

lets see the list this guy cost us gamers.

OtherOS

New IPs from the many Sony studios.

shifting production from upgrading PSN to deterring hackers

No advertising for Infamous 2

resulting Sony to focus on more casual cash-cow games.

Edit:
I like the idea of piracy. But also don't because i am a gamer so i guess i'm on both sides of the fence. =/

[JD_Shadow]

I don't understand where any of your listed things have to do with the pirating/hacking/whatever we're calling it.

"OtherOS"

Why does every single person go to this? How many times do I have to explain this? THIS WAS NOT EVEN INCLUDED WITH THE SLIM MODELS, YET NO ONE NOTICED OR BITCHED ABOUT IT! It was more than likely to be removed from the fat models no matter what and they used the hack as an excuse to remove it. And when it WAS removed, you guys QQed to SONY, not to Geohot. Now suddenly, it's HIS fault that something that wasn't even IN the new models prior to knowing that the OtherOS thing EXISTED got removed from the models that still had it for reasons that Sony had a cover story for? Tell me where the logic behind that reason is.

"New IPs from the many Sony studios."

Not sure if this is what you meant or not, but how in the HELL is THIS a BAD thing? This is what we WANT MS to do instead of relying too much on third party exclusive DLC and buying out third party Sony exclusives (only we get hit by "shut up fanboy" or "you weren't entitled to [insert game here] anyway" every single time we bring it up). If that's what it takes for MS to get to giving us more first party titles, then by all means, hack the living HELL out of that damn 360!

"shifting production from upgrading PSN to deterring hackers"

Though I can see your point here, it does seem like Sony is focusing too much on keeping the PS3 hacker-proof. That's the fault of Sony, not the hackers. They should keep those that use the means to do detrimental things from doing them, but homebrew games are not one of those things, and Sony seems to DESPISE homebrew for reasons I cannot begin to understand (hell, do they even HAVE a reason that they have even given). They've done this since the PSP hacking days, and the new features were a sort-of bait for those unsuspecting people to actually take the "security fixes" along with the attractive features (which are very nice, don't get me wrong here).

"No advertising for Infamous 2"

Though advertising for Sony's games have gotten better, the lack of adequate advertising for anything PS3 has been a problem for YEARS. How can we put it to just piracy and the hack?

"resulting Sony to focus on more casual cash-cow games."

It would take me a novel to tell you how much there is that's wrong with that statement.

[l_P_Freely]

otherOS, you may not have it but first generation owners do have that option and it came in handy to other users. if you kept track of Geohots blog, the key element of hacking the PS3 was though OtherOS. end of statement.

This is a sony article and not an xbox article. Keep it simple. First off, Sony is, if not one of the best game developing company in the business and they push their games more than anyone in the biz. How are they to make more block buster hits if they were to spread their money thin, and attempt to keep all their studios running when your company is in the negative all the time. How are you to advertise your games when you're spending your hard earned cash on making games and not to mention there are over 20 studios. please explain

and this brings me to Infamous 2 if you were keeping track on N4g. Sony was going to do a full out multi-million dollar advertising campaign for Infamous. But now their attention is adverted to keeping the PS3 "hacker proof" lol.

and as for "casual cash-cow" games. if Sony loses this case (which it looks like they will) it leaves Sony open for a counter sue spending millions more. as i said relying on cash cow profit to make up for the hardcore games that are being pirated.

[juggulator]

How does it look like Sony is going to lose the case.

Multi million(no make that BILLION) dollar Sony vs poor butthurt hacker. Money always wins.

OtherOS is the double edge sword of this whole debacle.OtherOS allowed Geohot to run his own code and exploits but Sony knew the feature needed to be removed in order for the new form factor to be a true gaming console.

Things like new IPs, less advertising, and focusing on more casual cash-cow games are what could happen if these hacks continue to plague the gaming industry.

[pixelsword]

They won't cost Sony anything; We who have to legally pay for games and services, however...

[deafwing]

lol what is the big deal about using linux
lmfao
seriously pick up an old laptop somewhere and install gnome and be happy people

[ZombieNinjaPanda]

@Romudeth

Since when are you criminal scum for messing around with a piece of hardware you own?

Think before you say words. Now those who pirate are the ones who are technically breaking the law, but who am I kidding, every single one here has pirated something before.

[Godmars290]

"Since when are you criminal scum for messing around with a piece of hardware you own?"

Pretty sure modifying to use copies of other product meant to be bought or offered from other vendors, also no purchased, qualifies.

In other words using something you bought to use other things that you haven't bought makes you a thief. Weather it be 20 year old Nintendo games still under license, or 360 games coming out tomorrow. That makes someone who does it criminal scum.

[BattleAxe]

@ Zombie

lol its not like he's messing around with his hardware for his own personal use. He's publicly exposing Sony's software for the masses to engage in piracy.

I hope they nail this idiot.

[ComboBreaker]

Since when are you criminal scum for messing around with a piece of hardware you own?

He owned his hardware, but Sony own the private root key. Stealing Sony's private root key and distributing it over the internet, using Sony's private root key for illegal activities, signing code with Sony's private root key without a license and without Sony's consent... All these things are illegal and unethical.

[ZombieNinjaPanda]

Edit: @Venom
And I'm chillin with Tupac and Biggie Smalls right now. Both are believable amirite?

Edit: @ RememberThe357

Oh I'm in the same boat too. I don't want the platform overrun with piracy and cheating, but I too also realize that I've pirated things before. I just have to say I hate the fact that everyone here is acting like they are so innocent.

Edit: @ComboBreaker

House Key =/= electronical device. Though your arguments backing up what your saying are much better than what is said up above.

@Battleaxe

Hackers don't hack things for piracy, they hack them to have more features, hence the reason jailbreaking the iphone is now legal in the United States. The only problem is that hacking something has the adverse effect of piracy being let lose. It's like the Pandora's box effect. Hope is let out, but so is every other evil in the world. In this case piracy.

@Godmars

20 year old Nintendo games that are still under license but aren't being produced anymore. Explain to me other ways to get them?

Point being, these people aren't criminal scum, they may be douche bags, but they're not scum. Then again, what am I saying, only since the Ps3 has been hacked have these guys been criminals and scum.

[RememberThe357]

I know I have. I'm stuck between the knowledge that I have committed similar crimes and the desire to keep the PS3 platform healthy. I find it hard to believe that people can take a side so easily.

I want the PS3 to stay healthy and not turn into the waste land that is the PSP, but I also know that I have done similar things with downloading tv shows for instance.

How can you be completely on the side of pirates knowing how much trouble they are causing on the platform you use. Frankly, in long term capitalist markets the more you steal the less you get. Without the available revenue product investment goes down.

At the same time how can many of us villainize what we do ourselves. How is it OK to pirate tv shows, movies and anime, but it's not OK to pirate games? How do we make that destruction?

I may be the only one, but I can't seem to take a side in all this. I don't want to see piracy but I also don't want to be a hypocrite.

EDIT: I find it interesting that these hackers are acting like Sony is the bad guy in this one. How is it that they are so narrow minded that they didn't see this coming? They act like they're the righteous ones but they don't have billions riding on the PS3. Anyone in Sony's shoes would do the same thing.

@BeOneWithTheGun: That is a completely different situation that doesn't serve to make any point. For you can't infinitely duplicate your car and give those duplicates to everyone who wants one.

[jack_burt0n]

Come on get real, modding your console at home on your own is one thing.

Enabling and releasing all those modifications, information and making a song and dance about it, will get your ass sued lol.

geohot is the one they should target great to see him bankrupted and jail timed, irrelevant to what he did he is a d*ck.

[BeOneWithTheGun]

To ur disagreers: if i buy a car and modify the engine to double my gas milage can oil makers sue me for lost profits?

[VenomProject]

I've never pirated anything, not even an MP3.

Just because most people are pirating scum doesn't mean you should accuse everyone in a broad generalization.

[nsnsmj]

Since when has homebrew only been about making emulators to play roms or finding ways to used unowned products. Homebrew could result in people making there own games run on the PS3, maybe some new apps, a better browser, etc.

Yes, there's always gonna be a downside, like hacking. But hell, downsides apply for everything in life. We don't even know for a FACT if Geohot and this group of hackers intent was for pirating, and won't until they're proven guilty or admit it themselves.

[DeadIIIRed]

@beonewiththegun apples and oranges guy, unless you want to clarify the comparison between modifying an engine to increase gas mileage and transmitting confidential code knowing that theft is a consequence.

[jerethdagryphon]

simple he owns the physical materials thats what he paid for, he doesnt own any of the code the firmware softwares or anything else

by deriving the keys he has commeted theft and corperate espionage if he had modified the hardware like ben heck does fine hes clear sonys not gonna sue heck over making a ps3 laptop theres no harm to them in it, i also think the dmca got a bit confused with what they considered jailbreaking, hots inital hack was removing a providor lock on the iphone so others could use it other then atat customers. thats fine

theres no reason to hack a ps3 the homebrew argument fails as it not designed for that do you hack a microwave to play music no. or a cdplayer to make teephone calls .

at any rate fail overflow and hotz stole sonys code thats theft doesnt matter how they got it if they had worked it out fine its an intelectual excercise but soon as they used it its theft

@ hsx9 : hardly he trialed blackmailing sony

if you want your next console to be secure hire me. thats a threat implied intention to hack there next console with a payoff of financial gain(employment)

blackmail is against the law further more these people have proven they cant be trusted in any position of athority with technolagy. i wouldnt hire them and nor should sony, its different when you hire someone with the express intention of using them to test security

or when a security firm throws up a challenge to hackers and stuff to test there own.

this is not legal and i hope sony win and makes it so hots and fail have to pay some sort of major resitution based on the number of sales sony loses from there nonsense.

[Billy_Dee_Williams]

This was bound to happen. Lets see real justice. What laws did geohot actually break? Hopefully the judgement is fair and not biased towards SOny.

[Billy_Dee_Williams]

To my disagrees: I'm not saying he is innocent, I am just saying while something may be morally wrong, it may not be as bad legally as one would think. I dont know all te details, but I am excited to find out.

[Bathyj]

Not me.

I hope the Judge is a GT fan.

[HSx9]

there are Sony fanatics who do not understand how the justice system works, I have almost been sued by Activision for "hacking" as well, and I'll tell you it's not fun when a multi-million company is about to sue you, thankfully Activision backed off.
Sure Geohot has done something that he should have kept a bit more private, but I am reading the documents and Sony is just trying to Accuse him of "allowing piracy" on the PS3. Geohot's Custom Firmware does not allow you to run Pirated Games, it has been confirmed, he disabled it because he knew he could get in legal trouble, Right now Sony is using a scare tactic and just suing for perhaps Copyright infringement, hopefully nothing bad happens to these kids, they are really smart and instead of Sony destroying their life's they could hire them to secure their console. They are young and very smart, all of us in this website wouldn't know how to hack this console even with our brains combined.

[HSx9]

I like how sony stretched the truth
"Indeed, in the last few days, people have already started copying, playing and
trafficking in pirated copies of video games using the 3.55 Firmware Jailbreak."

Nobody has figured out how to run pirated games, or in this case "back up" games, people are still trying to figure it out. The only way to do this is by using an exploit in the eboot which launches it directly, and you can only do that with 3-10 games.

[RememberThe357]

It's not hard to see where your coming from, but you also have to be aware of your own perspective as a hacker.

You mention that Geohut specifically disabled the ability to run pirated software from his firmware. But the argument could be made that if he removed it from his firmware he had to know that someone else would inevitably hack it and make it work. And if he truly didn't want to enable piracy he would not have release his firmware.

You also say that Sony should hire them to hack their consoles and that would be grab barring the fact that their job interview would have coast their employer potentially millions of dollars. It took them four years to figure the security out, and that's four years too late if you work for Sony.

I don't want to see these guys lives ruined either, but they all knew what they were doing and when they had the chance to back off they didn't. If their is one thing in life that is constant it's that you reap what you sow. When you bag and insane murderer to shoot you in the face don't be surprised when he pulls the figure.

Hopefully this doesn't turn out too bad for either party involved.

EDIT: @your second comment:
"'Indeed, in the last few days, people have already started copying, playing and trafficking in pirated copies of video games using the 3.55 Firmware Jailbreak.'

The only way to do this is by using an exploit in the eboot which launches it directly, and you can only do that with 3-10 games."

You just explained exactly what their talking about. Stretching the truth and stating the truth are different. And by your comment it seems that they are indeed stating the truth.

[HSx9]

@RememberThe357
hopefully u weren't one of the idiots who disagreed with my first post, but yeah I understand what you mean too, and the eboot exploit, you can do by using 3.41 firmware which geohot was never a part of, and data transferring the 3.41 firmware to a 3.55 firmware via the "Data Transfer Utility" feature on the PS3, without running any malicious code.

[JD_Shadow]

Personally, I think the one thing people have to do before they talk about this is to...

BREATHE!!

Did we forgot about why Tucson happened ALREADY? It's rhetoric like this that made that guy that already had mental issues want to take a gun and shoot up a Safeway with a congresswoman in it (nearly killing HER along with about 9 others)!

I know this is a hot button issue with gamers, but can we please stop acting like children here? I know this is N4G and all, but I've supported Sony a LOT on this site too, and here I am saying that Sony is in the wrong here.

Remember, too, that if it wasn't for Geohot's iPhone hack, we might've not had that announcement about Verizon getting a deal for it. Why? Because then people couldn't use the jailbreak to get their iphones to work with Verizon.

We've GOT to learn to stop trying to see the forest from the trees here.

[Biggest]

So they tried hacking the PS3 because Microsoft and Nintendo couldn't sell it? There is NOTHING coming from what these guys did that adds anything of real value to the PS3. The only thing they opened was an option for pirating.

[gunnerforlife]

finally sony acts!
i hope they get gehot arrested if they're able to. gehot is basicly the kingpin of piracy in this world, you get rid of him and they all get swept under the carpet, because he seems to be the smartest hacker there is out there, without him the hacking community cant really do anything at the level of hacking ps3.

Edit: at below true what your saying but are you telling me that without him the ps3 would be hacked right about now? cuz if i remember correctly he started this whole mess to begin with.

[jeeves86]

They're suing him. Being a kingpin in a virtual world does nothing when the real world wants all your cash.

[MastaMold]

Nice Sony get those mofo's that's what they get

[nsnsmj]

I wouldn't go THAT far and call them scum. I'm an optimistic person--so maybe, just maybe, they were only hacking the PS3 for homebrew. Though I know others who might use these hacks may be doing so in the name of piracy.

This whole thing has been crazy since Sony removed otherOS because of Geohot messing around with linux way back when. Do I think Sony should have removed it? No, but that's only because I don't think the intent was for piracy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not sticking up for piracy in any way. I am sticking up for homebrew however.

Sony jumped the gun by removing otherOS without thoroughly investigating the situation. In my opinion, THAT, is what has spurred the PS3 hacking up until this point

[EyeContact]

Run boys run! Sony got their dogs on you.

[Blaze929]

lol they are suing them? Sony sure does sound upset and desperate. What happened to just patching it with future updates? Didn't sue anyone prior to this...

"Through the
Internet, Defendants are distributing software, tools and instructions (collectively,
“Circumvention Devices”) that circumvent the TPMs in the PS3 System and facilitate the
counterfeiting of video games."

um...false? They said over and over they do not support nor give the tools to piracy. This lawsuit will not be in Sony's favor, I can see it already.

[Blaze929]

"to
enable use or playing of illegal copies of PlayStation®3 video games on the PS3 System."

false again? wow...

"and releasing software code that will allow users to run unauthorized or
pirated software on the PS3 System."

um...false again

Ya, this is definitely just Sony's way of saying there's nothing they can do about it now.

[pansenbaer]

Sorry, but you sound pretty ignorant. The fact is, Geohot IS distributing software that can facilitate piracy. There is no two ways around this. Just because he comes out and says 'I don't condone piracy' doesn't mean crap. Its still enabling people to do that, and that's what Sony is saying.

[Christopher]

By knowing that the information provided can be used for piracy, there are thereby supporting piracy. Specifically they are supporting piracy with a security protocol and the modification of Sony IP.

You can't do one without the other, thereby you are supporting piracy when you openly distribute the information.

[Nitrowolf2]

Blaze i hope you understand this
they are bring about 103 people to court
this prob. doesn't apply to every single one of them, but some of them have gotten way to run pirated games. whether it was just a few games, pirating is pirating.

[Christopher]

To reply to you honestly.

1. The key information they provided that allows anyone to create and run unsigned code on the PS3 does "... facilitate the counterfeiting of video games."

2. There have already been proof videos that have enabled people to play illegal copies of PS3 games. People have already used the information that GeoHotz provided to update their 'backup' programs and copy games to the HDD. This would allow them to illegally copy and play video games sans discs.

3. The 3.55 CFW that GeoHotz distributed actually does just this. You can create your own pkg file and run it with that firmware. Since it hasn't been licensed by Sony, it is unauthorized software. And, as mentioned above, people have already updated the code to run pirated software on the system, which includes emulators and 'backup' methods.

Not to say that Sony will win these cases, but what they are saying is 100% true.

[Simon_Brezhnev]

im not surprised by what blaze said he always spin shit against sony. you never see him in the microsoft piracy posts.

[Christopher]

***EFF has done a fantastic job keeping iPhone jailbreaks (not piracy!) legal..hope they can do the same with this PS3 news***

Seriously, dumbest statement ever. By keeping jailbreaks legal, you've kept piracy pretty much legal since it's impossible to track due to jailbreaking.

What an idiotic statement. You can't have one without the other.

Edit: Gotta love that on MuscleNerd's twitter page, a few below this post, he's openly talking to a person with the name @ThePirateKid about how iTunes handles software encryption and how to bypass it using a crypto hardware wall.

Watch this video and you'll see what GeoHot thinks of sony's PSN EULA:

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Specifically, watch the part when it shows the 'new' ToS agreement information. If that's not a sign of support of piracy, I don't know what is.

[xX-StolenSoul-Xx]

I sure do hope they do leave them penniless

[fr0sty]

sony just screwed up big time. now the whole hacker community is going to go after them and gladly release tools to allow pirating.

fact remains, as much as I like to support sony, if I paid $600 for a machine I better be able to do whatever the hell I want with it. if they are too incompetent to provide security to prevent piracy, I shouldn't have to suffer if I want to install custom software on my box that I paid for with my hard earned money.

I personally want to use my ps3 as a video encoder, since cell kicks ass at that. but obviously i don't own my ps3, because sony thinks they can sue me if I want to do that.

[wissam]

@ frosty

Yes like hackers will leave the p3 alone anyway.lol.

[mastiffchild]

Seriously, you think they already haven't been after Sony? I guess they hacked the Wii and the 360 but just left the PS3 alone cos they felt sorry after the PSP, yeah?

Jesus. Fact is people want something for nothing. Every year I get screwed by people exactly like these as a musician and I hear all the usual BS arguments coming out here too-"EVERYONE does it"(no they don't-we aren't all scum), "the industry can afford it"(can it? Can it really? It's made of individuals who, like me, aren't all Mick Jagger)and so on.

If someone helps people to steal they deserve a slap for it-it really is that simple. Theft IS wrong.

[fr0sty]

I too am a musician, and have not been hurt in the least by piracy. Until you hit a certain level, all that does for you is give you exposure. IF you're trying to make a living as a less than famous musician off of album sales, you're doing it wrong. Touring is the only way for someone who doesn't have a major label deal to make anything. Album sales come later, and even then are still secondary income.

Theft is wrong, but modifying my ps3 to encode video for me is not. i shouldn't have my console disabled if I want to do that. if sony wants to go after thieves, they need to have ps3 send a log of apps ran on it and ban the pirates, and also sue those downloading torrents of ps3 games just like everyone else. it's not our fault sony can't write security code, not our fault other OS was removed (stupid move on their part, as the hackers said it gave them a reason to hack the ps3 which is why it's security was cracked so soon after). Sony is just trying to do whatever knee jerk reaction it can to contain this because they are running scared.

if they were smart, they'd openly embrace homebrew and then use these legal complaints for the real pirates.

@ wissam, you seriously think they just let sony have 4 years hack free? you seriously think ps3's security (which relied on the same "random" number for it's security keys) was really that solid?

[Spenok]

Agreed, in full.

[meetajhu]

FailOverN4G users. hahhaha Geohot is my hero. Sony can't do shit. By reading these comments i can see that most of you are some 12-13 year old brainless and senseless.

[cheetah]

You are laughing at other peoples comments, now thats funny.

Maybe if thieves like you actually did something useful with your lives you might actually be able to pay for things you want rather than steal them.

[saladthieves]

This is gonna get ugly. If you sit inside your house in your basement, tinkering away with your PS3 and decide to publish whatever secrets you found from the console on the internet, think ahead before you do. Think of the damage you could cause to the industry...and if you do go on, be ready for heavy consequences! I hope Sony teaches these hackers and pirates a lesson. The damage is already done.

[SlaughterMeister]

Penniless on the street is a bit much, but I hope Sony kicks some serious ass.

[xCaptainAmazing]

Period. Maybe a hefty fine, yeah, but it's not like really hurt anybody directly. Maybe GeoHot, because he's a dick, but certainly not fail0verflow. Hacking is a hobby, and the fail0verflow guys had a great show at the hacking convention.

Hacking is a somewhat grey area regardless of what anyone believes. That's why piracy is still legal in most countries; the methods necessary to shut them down are immoral. There are hacking contests held all the time to break into and run malicious code on operating systems that YOU run. They even get paid for doing it so the manufactures can clean up their code. The only difference with this is that they didn't get permission.

In one twisted way, they actually helped Sony; they showed them that they should fire their cryptography guy.

[xCaptainAmazing]

You guys are all lame asses. Complaining about this, but nobody gives a damn about all the jailbroken iPods and PSPs. I hope Sony has more going for them, because last time I checked you can't be thrown in jail from jailbreaking a device. These guys know this. GeoHot will have the tougher time getting out of this one, though, because he's a douchebag... not because hacking makes you a douche, he's just literally a huge douche.

[gta2800]

I find it funny how just cause they say they don't condone piracy a lot of these people are backing up these hackers. Forget all this homebrew stuff. The real reason for all this is pirating games. Homebrew isn't worth any of the troubles! And they pretty much give pirates the tools to do it. If some country gave a hostile country looking to nuke the U.S., the tools to help them build weapons of mass destruction would you think it was okay for them to have done that because the first country say they don't condone war?

[Consoldtobots]

I think the fanboys of you know what console are missing the point. Our legal system works under what is called "presentment", that is Sony makes it accusations to the court under lawsuit and then this geohot character has TO RESPOND so a case can be heard. This is going to cost him more $$$ then he ever dreamed of. Multibillion dollar coporation vs lone retard with limited funds if any. Guess who's going to get their financial clock cleaned? At this point I don't think Sony even cares about anything sticking. They will be teaching this idiot a very harsh and expensive lesson that will send a message to other would be idiots. Theft is theft no matter how you slice or encode it.

[hyextacy]

These guys are Crackers and I for one would like to see them go down. A real Hacker does things for personal satisfaction and doesn't put it out on the web for illegal use.

[travelguy2k]

If Sony loses, they will have every right in the world to charge for the PSN. I wouldn't blame them, Sony does a good job of NOT nickle and diming us as consumers.

If this Hack does not go away, or if they lose this case and there is wide spread piracy, they WILL charge for PSN access to even out the losses, and it will be our own fault. well not mine, i have no intention of jailbreaking my PS3.

[frostypants]

I think "intent to extort" is pretty clear in Geohot's case. Remember, extortion isn't just about money necessarily.

[Maddens Raiders]

are good for is stealing what's not theirs and boinking each other in the arses on a sinking ship. More power to SNE and honest gamers!

[Scary69]

I agree with Romudeth I hope Sony wins and I hope other companies follow with lawsuits. Better yet I hope these hackers get some serious jail time and a big fine.

[King-Leonidas]

wait sony´s suing them... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ...!!!!

[chainer3000]

well i didnt see that coming /s

[The_Illusive_Man]

agreed all hacker on ps3 or xbox need to be shut down microsoft should be trying to find xbox hackers instead of trying to track trash talkers like dj keemstar

[dkblackhawk50]

GO SONY!

[Dart89]

It was only a matter of time.

[Shazz]

Daddys gonna need to get credit card out to get geohot a good lawyer . Legal costs for this alone would scare me shitless if I was these guys , if they are using state lawyers then good luck against sonys lawyers lol

[Cajun Chicken]

I really doubt it anyone made this for homebrew. These hackers want to be worshiped by pirates for 'liberating' a system for games and get them for free, that's it. They just can't say that.

In this case. Go Sony lawyers. The best exclusives on PS3 are made by inhouse studios, inhouse studio games get pirated, no profit, studios get cuts and people ruin developers like Santa Monica and Naughty Dog because of getting a free game, nothing pays for itself. I'd rather this future not happen.

I also guess that's what happens when you 'crack' something 'easily' which actually took about 3 years of hard work and determination just for the lulz.

[CarnageXB]

Here we go. I somehow knew this would happen. Don't mess with Sony

[SpaceFox]

Haha that's awesome.

That's pretty much Sony's way of saying there's nothing they can do about it.

[jeeves86]

>.> Actually, they 'can' do something about it. Sue the crap out of these guys, to the point where they can't afford any Sony products to screw around with to begin with.

[ReBurn]

Sony can sue whomever they want, but that doesn't fix the problem. I believe that's what SpaceFox is trying to articulate.

Pandora's box is opened. The cat's out of the bag. Apply whatever idiom you prefer. Nothing can undo this.

Also, the DMCA is a US law and so far this isn't a criminal complaint. So suing a German hacking group for restitution under the DMCA is probably meant more as a warning than anything else. These lawyers aren't stupid, regardless of how we feel about them. They know that they can't easily apply US law to people who aren't committing their indiscretions on US soil. So it is likely intended to let them know that Sony knows who they are and what they're doing, and that they need to cut it out.

[SpaceFox]

Thank you sir, that is exactly what I was trying to say. They can sue whomever they want but the problem isn't going away anytime soon... if ever.

[Ratchet510]

i hope they go to jail and get but rape because of the stupid move they did.

[PS3n360]

Would you like to get butt raped for that stupid comment? Hell you are already bent over for Sony so you might not even feel it. I can not understand why people want biased GT loving judges on the case and or wish bodily harm to people for doing stupid stuff like hacking consoles. What happened to innocent until proven guilty by a jury of their peers. No we want to hang the guy without a trial after plowing his chocolate farm with a big flesh hay bailer. BTW if you can't even spell butt properly you are in serious trouble.

[pansenbaer]

Umm, he is guilty. Give me a break. He's creating a way for people to pirate games. End of story. He deserves punishment. Although, rape is a bit harsh, I agree.

[SnakeMustDie]

The end begins... and I hope it stays that way.

[itsralf]

The SNES emulator is about all the cfw Geohot released is good for, unfortunately. He made it specifically to prevent pirating. Everyone else is doing all the pirating work, so don't point the finger solely at him.

[Nitrowolf2]

the fact that he released the keys doesn't say anything?
Of course Fail Over Flow is as much to blame, they release keys also
both releases were for different things

[kaveti6616]

nitrowolf, Sony has no case at all.

[itsralf]

There has been very little piracy since the 3.55 cfw. The lv 2 security is patched so that backup managers will not work in Geohot's 3.55 cfw. The only successful workaround is repackaged EBOOTS. Few of them are actually working. Pretty much just Castlevania and a select few PSN titles. Right now it's hardly worth the time and effort.

Why Sony is suing this time instead of earlier is beyond me. I guess they just can't fix this with a quick firmware update and go on with their business like before.

Btw, I'm not supporting piracy. I just don't have a problem with custom firmware allowing emulators and other badass tools. I think if you saw what cfw can add, you'd stop being such a hater too.

[SoSLy]

"Suing Geohot, Failoveflow, OTHERS"

not just him, his charges are probably for breaking security and such.

[jerethdagryphon]

uh emulators are piracy :)
do you have a letter from nintendo with permission to dump there roms have they placed that data in public realms no ok piracy.

[itsralf]

So if I play a Windows game on a Mac or Linux using Wine or another Windows emulator, is that piracy? If I purchased the game, it doesn't matter what the hell I play it on. And I own a decent physical collection of SNES games...

Edit: There are also emulators all over the Android Marketplace, too. Is Nintendo suing Google or the developers of the GBA or SNES emulator app? Is Sony suing Google or the developers of the PS1 Emulator app?

Sory to be so blunt about this, but you're wrong.

[kingofps3]

lol that was always gonna happen. wat did they expect?? a cake?

[Bathyj]

The cake is a lie.

[kingofps3]

In this case, yes. Portal...

[badz149]

he actually DID expect a cake! he wanted Sony to hire him, remember?

[Bathyj]

Good.

Litigate their arses into dust Sony. You have every right to.

[Tony-A]

Geohot is such an attention whore. He publicized the master key when the guys who actually cracked it wanted it to stay within the hacker community.

Fail0verflow cracked it for the sake of cracking. It's what they do. Geohot let it out to get all the attention.

Now they're screwed. Sick'em, Sony.

[jack_burt0n]

Yup yup and yup.

He was also the reason why otherOS was removed.

[mercenarie]

so this means an update won't repair the piracy problems of the PS3

[supremacy]

I called this earlier, and for those claiming Sony doesn't have a case i wouldn't have called this if i felt they didn't in the first place.

They (those hackers) held meetings, lil press events and made statements that there was no way back and that Sony would have to release new hardware in order to fix the issue.

This is already sounds like a threat to me.

Then they guy claims he doesn't support pirating, thats fine and all. But then you go out of your way and distribute root keys online for everyone to exploit?

On top of all this though despite the fact that there are only like 3 games or so being backed up to this point, no one in a court room cant and wont overlook at how fast this has come about since their initial statement.

Not to mention these guys even stated that the were afraid of things coming to this.

Personally im not one to judge or hold a grudge on anyone, but these guys asked for this. You wanted a job? well here have a law suit instead.

You guys out here can argue and try to know more than the rest, as if you know what the full extent of the law means. But the fact is when you against big giants like Sony, M$ and so forth, just know there are consequences to be paid.

When multiple giants collide in a court room, they usually got the funds and many resources available to them. To say.. you know what? lets just settle this another way and do so.

But these kids don't have that kind of leverage/resources if sht hits the fam. In a way im already feeling sorry for them, but not sorry enough.

Someone at Sony gave out a dev kit and it landed in the wrong hands, these hands worked and worked around the clock to try and figure out this thing and when they finally did.

They decided to run their mouth about it while distributing private keys to the WORLD wide web. And this than led to piracy, in which case gives Sony a legitimate case regardless of what their claims maybe.

Remember its one thing to hack a device for personal use, its another to distribute private keys which belong and are full of all kinds of legal mambo jumbo to the world.

Without those keys how can they even hack the system, let alone how can it be possible to back those games up.
These hackers knew this was coming, and better believe are afraid and for a good reason.

[Kleptic]

this seems more than anything like Sony going after the guys selling the weapons, as its always too hard to nail the individual terrorists...

it will get interesting...There isn't an easy case in either direction...I see a lot of accusations hovering around 'intent'...which can be impossible to prove in a lot of these types of situations...It looks like Sony is taking a side of trying to push that geohot had intent to create tools that allow illegal activity, but so far haven't thrown anything around that he was in fact doing some completely illegal...at least in the obvious sense...

Sony is in this because what Geohot is doing could (and we know it will) allow others to do far worse stuff...but the courts don't care as much about the intent, as there is almost always reasonable doubt in that...

[TheObserver]

Sony: Yo dawg, I heard you like to jailbreak. So I am going put you into jail. So you can jailbreak while you jailbreak.

[ZombieNinjaPanda]

You win 1 internet good sir.

[Kewl_Kat]

plus bubbles for TheObserver lol

[LilMissGoddess]

interesting, love to see the out come of this. sony does right they will win easy.

homebrew is one thing but prancing online with bs hacks and piracy is another. i side with sony here.

[Mafia2Rules123]

First of all, jailbreaking is legal in the USA.

Second of all, he didn't do anything to help piracy, in fact he did his best to stop it, as he disabled access to lv2. The way piracy happened was because of someone hex editing an EBOOT.elf, changing where it looks to find the game, from the Bluray, to the HDD. Which isn't exactly as easy as everyone here seems to think.

He did this for the same reason he jailbroke the iPhone, to give the user more options, and for people to release jailbreak only apps. With this Cross Game chat, and linux would have been possible.

But you guys just keep going on about Piracy, which geohot did his best to stop.

Edit: How many people here have jailbroke your iPhone, or iPod touch? Because that gives you way more access to piracy than this does.

Edit 2: I honestly don't see why I'm getting the dislikes, I never said piracy was good, I just said that he didn't do anything to enable it. The pirated games work on OFW too.

[Tony-A]

Obviously Sony found something to hold against them, or else they wouldn't take it to court and spend money, time and effort doing so in the process when they can theoretically just ban

If it were that simple, it would be a non-issue. They'd both stand in front of the judge where the judge then tells them that there's nothing Sony can do.

It would be a complete waste of time to do if there wasn't something that Sony saw as a valid reason for taking legal action. It's one of the reasons why you never saw them sue (or even ban) over the gamesharing issue that's still going around.

[BrianC6234]

Theft isn't legal in the US. This is way more than jailbreaking. If these clowns released Sony's code to bypass the security that isn't just jailbreaking. No true gamer wants these hackers to win. This is all going to kill gaming if it keeps up.

[Mafia2Rules123]

You obviously didn't read all my post.

[Biggest]

You obviously don't know what your own post means. You keep talking about jailbreaking. This wasn't jailbreaking. This was stolen/discovered security code distributed to the world illegally. He distributed a way to pirate games and people immediately tried doing it. Either way. . . Let it play out in court. If you knew better than Sony's lawyers, you would be one.

[ComboBreaker]

However, stealing and releasing Sony's private root key is not. Also, using Sony's private root key to illegally sign code without a license and without Sony's consent is illegal.

Geohot is going to jail for a long time. And this time, he won't be able to jailbreak out of jail.

[Mafia2Rules123]

He didn't steal, it was in the software, so it was released anyway.

[Blaze929]

it wasn't stolen....

[bunfighterii]

Civil suit buddy, no jail

[jerethdagryphon]

at blaZE : right by the loosest definition your right however by a practical definition your so so wrong.

my copy of windows contains vthe sorce code in a compiled form if iwas to work out how to decompile it and give that sorce code to say linux thats theft its not my sorce code the keys he publizied arent his to do so with just cause you dont kepp what you stole doesnt stop it being theft

[Led-Zeppelin]

Ive never jail broken my iphone. I'm proud to say I actually pay for my apps and music. Stop sucking on geohot's cock and grow up not all of us are hackers.

[Mafia2Rules123]

I pay for my apps and music too. I jailbroke to get Winterboard, and all of the mods on Cydia.

I haven't jailbroken my PS3, and probably won't, but if I was going to I'd do it to use emulators.

[Mafia2Rules123]

On the "New Xbox 360 250GB S hacked with video" article on here, the first comment is:
'lmao
:P'
It has 20 Agrees and 6 Disagrees.

And further down the page when someone asks what the point of hacking a system with no online is, someone says:
"why so? you can still play burned games offline..."
Which obviously is about pirated games, because if you have the game, and you know backing it up will cost you online, you'll just get off your ass and put the disk in won't you? And this got 22 Agrees, and ONLY ONE DISLIKE.

Now on this article ABOUT THE PS3, every comment just wants Sony to win. And all of the comments with the slightest bit of thought put into them have loads of disagrees.

So I think its you lot that should stop sucking Sony's cock.

[Thrillhouse]

Don't worry about it, dude. It's obvious that this place is highly populated by Sony fans and fanboys. Just check out the forum statistics.

All ya gotta do it ignore the lame bias (on each side).

[Christopher]

My problem is that I never see thise posts. Do I view the site at the wrong time or do Sony articles lead so often due to controversy?

No matter who it is, piracy is bad. Sad to see Sony stuck with ba ing to sue, but I'd suppot MS and Nintendo equally on a similar issue.

[Biggest]

I don't remember that post. From what I heard, the 360 was hacked before it was released and no one cares. I care about the PS3 being hacked because I appreciate the effort from the PS3 developers. I don't want them to think twice about making great games for the PS3.

[Nitrowolf2]

you adding the term "Jailbreak" doesn't make it legal.

Guess what guys i jailbreak my way into that women care yesterday and crashed it, don't worry though cause it's legal

I jailbreak a dude yesterday (sounds wrong) with my gun.

i hate when people assume that just because it has Jailbreak doesn't make it the same. In fact CFW is the appropiate term for latest exploits. and also this

"he didn't do anything to help piracy, in fact he did his best to stop it, as he disabled access to lv2."

WRONG!!!!!!!!

he might have patched it but he helped in more ways then any hacker that wants to run pirated games then you think.
One: By releasing a tool to repackage CFW
two: by releasing the keys

and regardless if there are no one out there that know how to do it, he still did release the tools to make it possible.

"hey we don't support piracy" yeah he said that right after he released the keys and a few tools.

so they wanted to get Linux back?
then why did they add an install PKG option?
Geo is the reason why Linux is gone, and in fact he released the keys that were meant to be kept hidden, shows he is irresponsible.

I would hate to be the parent of this child knowing that he is going to court and could potentailly ruin his life.

[jerethdagryphon]

from the dmca
The U.S. Librarian of Congress ruled on Monday that consumers who circumvent digital protections on smartphones to install unapproved applications—a practice often colloquially known as “jailbreaking”—for noninfringing reasons should be exempted from prosecution under the anti-circumvention section of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA).

The proposed exemption on jailbreaking was first put forth in 2008 by the Electronic Frontier Foundation, which argued that users should be allowed to jailbreak their phones to install, for personal use, legally acquired third-party software. Apple, for its part, argued against the exemption in an extensive filing contending that an exemption for jailbreaking would lead to more widespread piracy and additional support costs for the company.

note the personal use and legally aquired parts not to mention the EXEMTION ONLY COVERS SMARTPHONES.
it is not carte blanche to jailbreak anything what it is is a legalaization of 3rd partys companys who made software like a pdf reader for the iphone but apple refesed to sign . thats all nothing more

yesv they work on ofw BECAUSE he took fails work and got the R.E.K thats what sonys pissed about that key is worth millions to them if not hundreds of million.

@at below strange hoe people read what they want to and ignore the rest. it is not legal to jailbreak a device it is legal to jailbreak smartphones ONLY sonys knows what there doing and are completly in the right in this. nothing there pulling charges for is covered by the exemption

[xCaptainAmazing]

Screw everyone else, man. You have a well constructed argument. They just can't handle both sides of the coin. We'll see how it plays out in court, but it's not like Sony's gonna win without a fight. These guys have rights too, especially going up a big company.

Everyone has jailbroken their iPod and stolen games, fact.

[kaveti6616]

Sony is being ridiculous.

They have no legal precedent to sue these hackers. But the hackers, although Geohot is a d-bag who I hate, have legal precedent in their favor. It has already been ruled that unlocking electronic devices is not illegal.

The Wii has been unlocked to run homebrew and as a consequence pirated games can run on an unlocked Wii. Yet, the people who unlocked the Wii cannot be charged with anything.

Edit: It doesn't matter what you think. There are legal precedents about this, and they all declare that jailbreaking / unlocking is completely legal.

Sony is being incredibly egotistical right now.

Apple's Iphone can be legally jailbroken and all the apps that Apple normally charges money for can be obtained for free from an installer which is obtained through jailbreaking. This information is widely known, and yet, it is still legal to unlock the device and the US Judicial system has ruled that unlocking or jailbreaking a device is legal. Unless Sony wants this to go to supreme court where they wish to overturn the previous ruling and set a new precedent, they have no case whatsoever.

They have nothing. Deal with it.

[aviator189]

I'm no legal expert here, but I still think that what these people do...unlocking and such...is wrong.

If what you're saying is true, then I wish the best to Sony.

[irepbtown]

This law in US called DCMA, states Jailbreaking is legal or w.e.

But what i've also read is, 'NOT CONSOLES'.
Only Smartphones etc.

Now i dont live in America, but just because America has a law that allows Jailbreak, Why should it ruin my experience here in England?
If there is piracy, Devs will think twice about great games, which i dont want them to do, i want them to do the great game, and not worry about piracy (This is all IF console Jailbreaking is legal).

By the way smart guy, Read this

"The Copyright Office also allowed bypassing the anticopying technology used in DVDs, but only for "documentary filmmaking," noncommercial videos, and educational uses--a ruling that stopped short of allowing Americans to legally make a backup copy for their own use, in case the original DVD gets damaged. It also doesn't apply to making backup copies of video game discs or Blu-ray discs."

xbox 360 court case -
http://www.wired.com/threat...

[Spartacus5405]

Well there might be no legal precedents but maybe these cases will be the first where these scum get what they deserve setting up a domino effect of other companies following suit and suing their own hackers. Also lawyers are expensive if Sony loses they could always appeal and in a different way, bankrupt these hackers

[ComboBreaker]

Jailbreaking and hacking your own hardware is legal.

However, stealing and releasing Sony's private root key is not. Also, using Sony's private root key to illegally sign code without a license and without Sony's consent is also illegal.

Geohot is going to jail for a long time. And this time, he won't be able to jailbreak out of

[HATE506]

@kaveti, still crying like a lil bitch about SONY I see

[Anon1974]

"But the hackers have legal precedent in their favor."

Did you not read the docs that were filed? The court documents outline no less than 40 cases where it outlines in no uncertain terms that legal precedent is NOT in the hacker's favor. The fact that they were already able to slap a restraining order on these guys just shows that the courts already view their actions as something that most certainly is breaking the law and needs to be stopped immediately. They've even got a quote from Geohotz himself from an interview with the BBC where he freely admits that his "conduct will catalyze the piracy of video games".

[NeoTribe]

This allowing hacking BS is just american politics at its best.... Im so sick of this political garbage allowing criminals to get away with there crimes. Anyone with half a soul can tell what these fools are doin is wrong.

[Burning_Finger]

Sony : Over 9000!!

Hackers: 0

[BrianC6234]

You know nothing about the law obviously. Sony is in the right on this. We need to destroy all of these loser hackers once and for all. I say send the FBI and police in other countries and round all of them up. It's called theft.

[kaveti6616]

okay, smart guy. name the legal precedent that sony has to sue someone who jailbroke an electronic device.

Apple Iphone? Nope
Xbox? Nope.
Wii? Nope.
Android? Nope. In fact you can purchase an Android Phone or Iphone legally for a greater sum of money in an unlocked state.

Sony has no case. If they try to find a judge biased in their favor, the defense will appeal and it will be taken to supreme court (eventually) where Sony will lose.

[pork_chop_express]

thats not the point, by that time he will be so buried in litigation he will be defending himself in court.

[Nitrowolf2]

Saying SOny doesn't have case is false
in fact if people actually read about the legalization of jailbreaking they would have notice this

"The Copyright Office also allowed bypassing the anticopying technology used in DVDs, but only for "documentary filmmaking," noncommercial videos, and educational uses--a ruling that stopped short of allowing Americans to legally make a backup copy for their own use, in case the original DVD gets damaged. It also doesn't apply to making backup copies of video game discs or Blu-ray discs."

infact there is a court trail on 360 http://www.wired.com/threat...
still going on i believe

also jailbreaking onlycovers mobile devices and a few formats

[emil1]

ps2 had piracy from beginning still it sold 1,5 billion copies of games it is the only console which sold over 1 billion software. the second is ps1 with around 930 million software sold.

so why would sony be worried? in fact they started to make money on every ps3 sold.

[Burning_Finger]

With this bad economy, every sales count for the developers to stay in business. Sony's are doing us a favor to stop the piracy so we can still enjoy more games and the developers to keep on developing games for the systems.

[xCaptainAmazing]

The developers are holding up fine. Last time I checked, the big games are still making big numbers, and the shitty games shitty ones.

[thebudgetgamer]

:

[starcb26]

Then why are you "thebudgetgamer" if you're rich?

[thebudgetgamer]

i don't know
(whispers) don't blow my cover

i got the name when i was like ten, and i am quite poor.

[INehalemEXI]

After all the bills are paid if I still got $10 I feel rich.

[Kewl_Kat]

The console race wasn't even close in the previous gen. The PS2 dominated the Gamcube and Xbox, that's why piracy barely hurt its sales. It's the same thing with the DS. I bet theres more hacked DS than there are hacked PSPs 'cause the DS is easily hacked and the games are easier to download. Being the dominant handheld, the DS barely suffered from piracy. Same goes for the Wii. The 360, on the other hand, is different. It's not hurt by piracy not 'cause it's the top console but 'cause it receives a steady stream of profit from Live. The PS3 doesn't have the dominant sales status and doesn't have the paid online service to be unaffected by piracy. This is why the PS2 and PS3 comparison is not a good argument.

Yes, they are now profiting from every PS3 sold. But piracy will take away a lot of profit from game sales.

[jack who]

new low sony good luck winning

[thebudgetgamer]

they should just ban a bunch of consoles so people will have to buy them again.

[NatureOfLogic]

I already have to by a new ps3,my laser just bit the dust so,this geohot jailbreak would've been nice to have on my current ps3(already broken ps3).

[irepbtown]

Read this,

"The Copyright Office also allowed bypassing the anticopying technology used in DVDs, but only for "documentary filmmaking," noncommercial videos, and educational uses--a ruling that stopped short of allowing Americans to legally make a backup copy for their own use, in case the original DVD gets damaged. It also doesn't apply to making backup copies of video game discs or Blu-ray discs."

Sony has a very good case.

[Motorola]

Yeah cuz TRYING to protect the security of something you make is a "low?" We dont even know who won yet. @below And what else can sony do? The best bet is to attempt to eradicate the source/the best of the hackers before issuing a fix (if they can)

[jack who]

low cuzz they sueing them for what point? sueing them in the usa and the ppl dont even live in the usa. when they could be looking for ways to block the hacks but no they wanna sue which will only piss off more ppl. m$ tired that rout and failed. but like i said good luck sony

[NeoTribe]

What world do you live in seriously.... Why is it a new low for sony to protect there product from lowlife thieving scum?

[StarScream4Ever]

The Hammer falls.

[nightfallinicedearth]

Well I highly doubt anyone will see jail time for this. Having the PS3 jailbroken can only do Sony good.
These things happen all the time. look at Ps1, 2, Wii,360 iPhone/touch they're all pirated and hacked.it's something that most likely will never stop. Some people just pirate and if they like the game they'll buy it. Not all but some, and honestly I see nothing wrong with that. If I'm about to dish out $70 I want to know what I'm paying for before I buy.

[DeFFeR]

Ok - then D/L the demo or get up off your couch and get to blockbuster...

[supremacy]

Thats why there are reviews and rentals? Piracy is just stealing, i want you to invest millions in making games and let me and the rest of these people just pirate the heck out of your investment. I am pretty sure that isn't going to sit too well with you after the numbers come back around.

[MGRogue2017]

Ooooooooh shiiiiiiiit!!! :D :D :D

Frodo look-alike is getting what he deserves anyway.. Dont mess with Sony, bitch! The dude must be shaking right now, he said he was scared of being sent a lawsuit, haha

[zslash]

Doubt it, he's been involved in lawsuits before. Apple was pressuring him at one point..

I'm against piracy as much as the next guy, but you are naive if you think these scare tactics will halt hacking efforts.

[supremacy]

The economy is rough up and little by little we are starting to see these big corporations take these drastic measures.

Just the online distribution of the keys is all Sony needs in this case, and with money on the table who do you think the court is going to rule in favor off?

Hackers wont stop, but for Sony if they win its a good thing that will fend off many of their devices and products.

But if they sit there and just takes it on the rear like some of you on here expect them to do than this will never change if not get worse as time goes.

All i am saying here is i am glad they are taking some action.

[zslash]

Going after hackers like this is a lost cause. Honestly, it's a waste of money. The resources could be better spent on improving security.

Sony isn't guaranteed a win in the courts either. Apple could not take down GeoHot for pioneering the iOS jailbreak, what makes you think they will succeed?

Even if they do win, Sony still loses in the grand scheme of things. The keys are already out in the open - there's no going back now.

[homer]

Why is Sony suing? It would be cheaper just to hire ninjas or hitmen to take the hackers out./s

[gamingisnotacrime]

there is a risk, even if is just money burden and in this times money is not coming any easier

[visualb]

make them cry like girls

[ApexHell]

so what most of them were from europe US law doesnt affect them until they set foot on US shores :p

geohot on the other hand is pwnd

[supremacy]

Sony is a pretty big company i am sure they also got legs and brains sitting in those shores awaiting the outcome here in the us to act as well.

[Pillage05]

I don't know the exact laws in the countries that the others are in but if they they think they have a case in those countries as well, i'm sure they will soon file lawsuits there as well.

[irepbtown]

"The Copyright Office also allowed bypassing the anticopying technology used in DVDs, but only for "documentary filmmaking," noncommercial videos, and educational uses--a ruling that stopped short of allowing Americans to legally make a backup copy for their own use, in case the original DVD gets damaged. It also doesn't apply to making backup copies of video game discs or Blu-ray discs."

Sony has a very good case.

[KaiokenKid]

They deserve it.

[tunaks1]

all would have been avoidable if OtherOS was still available. Arent most of them in Germany anyways?

[rob6021]

Probably not a smart move for Sony, they can now count on future hardware versions being hacked more quickly. They're not going to recover any financial losses from the individuals; only lose millions in the process.

[guerojose]

Anybody else think that "Intent to Extort" stings especially bad? Suddenly that little tweet soliciting job offers doesn't sound so innocent. Left himself wide open to that.

[OhReginald]

I can only imagine would it would be like in geohot's house...

Dad: "Son, whats this in the mail? It says you are being sued by Sony?"

Geohot: "Ummmm"

Dad: "Boy, Im gonna teach you a lesson"

*takes off belt*

Geohot: "NO DADDY NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!"

[XabiTheHumble]

LMFAOO!!!

[commander]

Reminds me of a quote from the movie Big daddy with the dad at the football player.

[stonedgamer]

SONY should have hackers assassinated, why cut corners?

[TheTruth89]

Yakuza silently incoming

[Mahr]

Excellent news. The courts will almost certainly side with Geohot on this, and then the American modding community can finally get that precedent we have been waiting for. The one guaranteeing full protection for what we do.

[Sarevok]

Steal stuff? Cheat on online games?
I hope Sony wins then.

[PS3n360]

Everyone join in on the Sony ass kissing party yaaaaay! go large multi national faceless corporation go! Seriously this is disturbing reading all this brown nosing BS.

[Sarevok]

Take a look at this.
http://n4g.com/news/678876/...

You want your online games to be like this stupid?

[PS3n360]

well mr dipshit I would have considered your point however resorting to personal attacks makes you a douche not worth a dirty gash to spray in. There you go have some of your own meds.

[Ares84PS3]

I'm glad. Hope this will teach people.

[MGRogue2017]

This is Geohot's face when he saw his dad come in with teh letter..

The dad then went on to grab the nearest RJ11 ethernet cable or iTunes sync cable.. lol

[Tigan]

Sony asked for it so why sue now?? . It was like an invitation to challenge every hacker in the fu*cking planet when sony used to brag about how the ps3 would be unhackable this gen due to it's bluray, updates and what not. Well look at them f*cking goofs now in a panic trying to sue every hacker out there for hacking the ps3. Mission accomplished sony. They should be rewarding these guys not suing them. They brought the challenge to them in the first place. It was only a matter of time for sony. There's only so much you can do about hackers sony and im honestly surprised it wasn't hacked earlier. Good job sony but next time keep your lid tight.

[Omega Zues]

So basically your saying to do nothing and let them run the show?

Its called taking a stand, no matter how big the challenge is.

[WitWolfy]

taking a stand?? There's a difference being arrogant and actually admit when your machine is everything but secure.

Moral of the story, even a dedicated group of garage hackers can make a massive corporation sweat through their teeth.

[Hozi89]

To all the haters of Homebrew and GeoHotz...Don't even reply to this.

To all of you who believe Geo did nothing wrong and want to help him. I say we do something, without guys like him, we would have a ps3 milking all money from our pockets. Now we can add our own apps and such, we can get more for our money. I'm not supporting Piracy but I do support Homebrew.

How bout a petition to start things off?

[MajestieBeast]

Yeah cause you pay for the stuff sony adds to PSN. Ive seen you in other articles with some mexican both supporting piracy

[Hozi89]

Dude...I can buy shit off PSN. It features like Netflix and internettv I can't access.

About the piracy. I did support that mexican, and for good reason. However, if you've read other comments of mine you'll see that I have 2 ps3s. One for Homebrew and one for SONY.

BTW didn't I say NO haters?

[TheTruth89]

no

[GigaGaia]

The only thing this show is how desperate Sony is. They know there is absolutely nothing they can do anymore.

[sickbird]

hackers are scum of the earth and they should be TERMINATED.

[blackburn5]

Awwww!!!!! That is so sweet that you want to help the overconfident lowlife hackers Hozi89 but in the real world Sony is a business and cannot allow outside forces to break their security and do what they want. You need to grow up and realise that you cannot always get what you want and your actions have consequences beyond just what you want. Sony does not want you to risk their system by allowing you crack it open. Despite what you think no one cares that much if the hackers win or not. If they win the battle will continue, if they fail we go back to normal.@ GigaGaia That is what everyone said last time too.

[PSWe60]

sue the motherf*ckers!

[xino]

Sony are suing them because they don't know how to stop the hack/code/lev2l what ever it's called.

all they would do is ban consoles.

ops forgot to write:

-Ninja Gaiden 3- is sick!:)

[ashcroft]

You people are clueless, this is a desperation move look at the stuff they are claiming him of doing.

The tools are out, there will not be hardware revisions and can't be patched judging by their actions. He will be cleared of these charges and you can go back to crying and acting like you never downloaded anything in your life.

It's like they took the worst kind of fanboys and illiterates and rolled them up on n4g, I'd rather listen to britney spears than read the crap you spew. You're worse than drama queens. Let go of that pacifier and grow a pair.

[NateCole]

Sad situation really.

With all the knowledge these kids have i really don't get why they do these things. I mean just to save a couple of dollars when they could earn so much more from actually putting this knowledge to good use?

Sad. This sounds serious and as much as i hate pirates i think this is overkill.

As a working adult i understand and value greatly honest hard work. This is something pirates take away from thousands of hard working people working to support their families pay for food, bills, mortgages etc. However, these are just kids. As an adult i really don't want to see any young persons future get squashed.

[Xander756]

This is awesome, I hope Sony nails these bastards and shows that hacking is NOT okay. I can't believe these nerds are idolized in the gaming community.

[BoNeSaW23]

Let the cockroaches scatter. Can't wait to listen to all the hackers cry about the Big Mean Electronic Company. Lovin' It!!!

[Nitrowolf2]

looks like Sony killed Twitter, good it was time for that site to die anyway
i kid

[Blasphemy]

Honestly it was dumb as hell for them to go public with the info they released. They should have seen this coming a mile away.

[alex3369]

i hope people realize what they're saying. you people say he should rot in prison and leave him penniless.... you guys realize this is first a video game console and second why is everyone hopping on the sony bandwagon. sony doesn't care about you they want money and this is their only way to protect developers.

[zeeshan810]

MS didn't do what Sony has done. SUE hackers. wowow.

[Otheros00]

Actually M$ did sue.

http://www.wired.com/threat...

[rlm41]

Well i won't be getting a PS3 after all..

[X]

This is a story I've watched overtime and I've reflected on my experiences as well. I've donwloaded emulators. I've downloaded music. I've downloaded ROMs. "Oh who cares. It's not like I'm harming anyone." I was young and didn't care about the consequences of my actions.

It was only till I joined the workforce that I learned the value of putting your effort into your work to see results. It was then I realized what it was I was doing. I was using emulators to play games I didn't buy, didn't own anymore, or intend on buying/re-buying. I justified myself under the banner of "reliving old memories"

I watched the behind the scenes of the God of War 2 demo prep for E3. To see so many people putting in so much work, 10-12 hour shifts. Being away from their families for so long because they are trying to complete their job and make their living.

These are the people who get hurt by piracy. The art designer. The programmer. The production people. They are the ones who suffer because there are those who believe they should experience that without having to compensate people for their work. Look past the big company umbrella and see the people under the banner. See the individuals who are trying to take care of their families and provide a living, but cannot continue to be funded because their projects didn't offset cost.

I cannot change what I've done, but what I can do is learn from my mistake, and go forward with what I've learned. Piracy hurts something big only a little. That little though can be aimed at something just as little. That little then becomes a lot.

[Hudahudahuda]

Brung a tear to my damn eye. People like you help keep my faith that the human race is not full of hypocritical parasites waiting to strike at any opportunity they can get away with.

[RedBullGT]

Thank You for telling what these types of things do. I was getting sick of people agreeing with piracy because they do not want to pay for games, but they never think about all of the people who are trying to support their families.

[GamerPS360]

Very sensible post. +1

[XabiTheHumble]

SO THE REAL BATTLE BEGINS!

[SMW]

18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(7)(B) – Intent to Extort

This interests me...

[GSpartan777]

Hey stated when he released the keys to the public that if MS, Sony or Nintendo wanted a secure system for their next console to contact him. So it look like a big fuck you Sony you're done, hire me next time. He took that part down from his site to get rid of what ever Sony might be suing him for.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

This most likely is only going to incite hackers to hammer on the PS3 more. Nothing worse than angering the underground hacker community.

[AssassinHD]

Like they were not going to hammer on it anyway.

[Daves]

fuck em

[ApexHell]

anyway they wouldnt need to pay money.

page 29, lines 13-17. it says that they will not suffer monetary damage, and will only to ordered to cease their illicit activity

geohot has done what he has already needed to do with the ps3, the failoverflow only want to enable linux on it.

[lizard81288]

and they won't need to hire lawyers, lol.

i know this sounds a bit odd, but i feel like i'm entering a Colosseum, i a very intrigued at how this will play out. This is the 1st i have heard about big wigs going after hackers, the only other time would be Nintendo vs Game Genie.

Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc.

"The Court denied Nintendo's motion for a preliminary injunction, holding that Game Genie did not create a derivative work and also suggesting that even if it did, it might well be fair use. As the district court wrote, "Having paid Nintendo a fair return, the consumer may experiment with the product and create new variations of play, for personal enjoyment, without creating a derivative work."
~wiki

i want to see how this will play out

[ealvinito]

All you who say you never downloaded a free song are full of crap!! Geohot is NOT in the wrong at all. His release does not allow for backing up of games. SONY HAS NO CASE!! The only thing they can get him for is releasing the root keys to the public (maybe). That's it!! None of you are innocent. Don't kid yourself! Hope Geohot wins this one!!!

[DoomeDx]

Its not about 'Oooh they just tested their secruity! The didnt release it to the public!!'

Doesnt matter dude.
They hacked a closed system, thats illigal already.
They werent supposed to.

So everybody saying that sony is doing stupid because they didnt release it to the public, is stupid themselfs

[ealvinito]

They hacked a closed system. Ok well the iPhone is a closed system isn't it?? What Geohot did is completely legal. What others may do may not be legal, but as it stands Geohot's release is not illegal.

[AssassinHD]

I never downloaded any music, or any software of any kind that I didn't pay for. I was raised better than that. My parents would have taken turns beating my ass if I ever did something like that. They both grew up in poor conditions and both worked hard to become successful so that my siblings and I would have a better life. Neither one of them would have ever tolerated taking something without paying for it.

[ealvinito]

Enough of the sob story! Did what Geohot do allow Piracy?? Again did what Geohot do allow piracy... Answer=NOOOOO. Somebody else may create this ability but what Geohot did does not allow piracy. Bottom line.

[AssassinHD]

It is not a sob story. I am well off in life because my parents did a good job raising me. I was simply responding to your claim that anyone who says they don't download music for free is full of crap. Try to keep up.

[Enzo]

I don't get it. Isn't this the guy that did the same thing to the iphone? Should've he been on jail already?

[GSpartan777]

Jailbreaking the iphone is legal and same thing goes for the PS3, however GeoHotz has done things that are against the DMCA which are what will ultimately get him in trouble.

[dkgshiz]

If only he was still alive. Hell, even OJ needs JC back.

[audiojet]

good. Opening a console with the knowledge it will be hacked by others is ignorant and guilty in some way. This crap brings cheap quick thrills to people but eventually kills a console.

[Fel08]

Good, and hopefully justice will prevail!

[GeneGodHand]

You do the crime you do the time.

[vegnadragon]

He played with fire and he won't win the case, stop fooling yourself, especially since it is here in the US. You might want to mention the Jail breaking event, but that a different scenario where apple tried to change the law, where this is a corporate business suing a 21 year old kid.

[Neko_Mega]

Anyone that thinks this is the same as the IPhone are fools, PS3Jailbreak try that and fail.

Geohot and Failoverflow are nothing then trash hackers, smart hackers wouldn't be dumb and twitter things.

It is like twittering about how you killed someone, its just dumb.

[ATi_Elite]

I told you so I told you so I told you so.

Wow I posted in a thread about 3 days ago that Sony was just waiting for GEO-NOT to do just the WRONG thing and the Law suits were gonna fly.

Sony isn't dumb like Apple as Sony has been through this hacking crap before and they were just waiting patiently. Sony has The Cell and the PS3 under so many patents and protection copyrights that it isn't even funny.

Nobody is gonna donate for your legal fees you ASS CLOwn because the PS3 is a closed system and you screwed with the wrong company this time. How does it feel to be famous now Geo-Not?

Geo-Not is so SCREWed that intent to extort is easy as the ass clown cracked it then sent letters talking about give him a job and he won't post any code which also falls under Defraud and Obtain value. He might get off on the other ones.

[Balt]

George is going to be a legend, people. There is a movie already being inked for this guy, trust me. Hollywood loves this kind of $#*T and there is nothing anyone can do to change his status.

He is a thorn in the side of billion dollar companies all over the world, and he's going to be out there in the public eye.

Sony has admited defeat by their actions. They will lose this case and ultimately spend millions on it and security updates that could've went towards their divisions and you gamers.

Like George or not, he is going to come out the winner of this in the end. He will have a book, maybe his autobiography and he will get a movie out of it.

Trust me.

[Bolts]

Geohot have always been the showboat of the hacking community, Apple realized this and merely refused to acknowledged his existence officially because they knew that taking legal actions would only be an admission that their hardware is not secure. The damage to them publicly would to greater than any legal action leveraged against the hacker. This simple fact is understood by both Apple and Microsoft, that punity action against a singular hacker does nothing and they will look impotent and helpless in the eyes of the public and their shareholders if the hacking continues...which it certainly will.

Yet for some reason Sony decided to throw some money at futility and give Geohot the fame that he seeks. I guess they must like to encourage PS3 piracy because the PS3 hacking scene just got hot.

[Enigma_2099]

I just got one question...

... WHERE are these oh so wonderful homebrew games that justify al this crap?

[fight4lov]

i already seen some crappy homebrew games.

[WitWolfy]

You guys are such fucking hypocrites, lets see 80% of you fuckers get locked up for running pirated versions of Windows, not to mention all those illegally downloaded PC games, software and movies on your HDD.

All what these guys did was proof, nothing is "Unhackable" and now Sony is going ape shit because they see people are making software on their OS that MILLIONS of their users have been nagging for. For free too! Nice...

Sony should be thanking this little bastards, they motivated more people to buy PS3 thanks to this JB saga

[Pledius]

lol this is like real-life banhammer!

would they be able to hack this through?

[Donnywho]

Probably wanna research a company and it's history extensively before you go all in like that. Sony don't play that.

[DoomeDx]

'Assasination!

Wait until we have located the hacker, then track and kill him!!
Show no mercy!'

Anybody who played Killzone 2 online knows what i mean

[damnyouretall]

i used to steal music. hell i guess some of us are no better than other pirates. some of the smartest people in the world make dumb decisions. i hope it dont ruin his life, no one deserves that. some of yall are kinda harsh. he's not a cold hearted killer, just a fuckin computer dork

[hot111]

This means that they can't fix this by firmware,if they could they would just patch it and forget about it.They will lose here.

[PirateThom]

All the people stating "oh, you never downloaded a song or game or whatever" have maybe the worst defense of the hacking community I have ever heard and it's a good thing for them you're not lawyers,

Downloading illegally has nothing to do with the lawsuit, no one is even talking about downloading illegally. Please read the charges and tell me what that has to do with "downloading illegally". The whole thing is about transmitting information of a closed system and trying to extort money using it. Nothing about piracy, the charges here are a lot worse simply because it's things they were shown to be doing.

[WitWolfy]

If you read the whole document which I bet you didnt it states the jailbreak was intend for Piracy. Not to mention theft of copyright material. Now correct me if im wrong, but isnt transmitting information of a closed system copyright infringement too??? Thought so.

I rest my case.

Sony wouldnt be suing them if this didnt have anything to do with copyrighted information worth billions of dollars being leaked to the world.

FACT!

Dont be so ignorant.

[damnyouretall]

thnx he was just tryin to make me feel stupid.

[NatureOfLogic]

I love ps3 as much as the next man but this geohot jailbreak would've been useful on my broken lens ps3.

[optimus]

wow there are a lot of sony fanboys in here...i'm all for jailbreaking devices of any kind.
quite frankly if you told me i can hack a ps3 with the greatest of ease i would go out and buy one right now...

sony is doing this because of all the money they spent and lost on the psp being that according to reports it was piracy that prevented it to overcome the DS, obviously they don't want the ps3 to go the same way...and to those that keep arguing that this Geo'person is "providing the tools for others to copy games" and such, then the same can be said about Best Buy, Target, Walmart etc. since they sell blank cd's, dvd's and blu-rays to copy software and data. sony should try and sue them too then...
needless to say, I hope sony loses this case.

[PirateThom]

As I pointed out, no one, not even Sony, is arguing that it provides the tools for others to copy games...

[Thesonygeniuses]

Its about time Sony.

[OSIRUSSS]

Why would someone load some crappy hacker generated homeshit on their PS3. Talk about a massive waste of time.

[WitWolfy]

Id only use this device if i could get XBMC to work on my PS3... But seeing it doesnt, I agree with you all the way.

If I wanted to play crappy old ROMS I'll plug in my old Xbox 1.

[kasasensei]

"Sony Suing Geohot, Fail0verflow, others over PS3 Hacking"
pathetic

[ps3destroyer]

Yeah!!!!!!!!!Kill the demons Sony.Now Sony's sales will sky rocket since the ps3 was holded back by non-piracy factors.Pirates will buy more consoles since they start banning their previous ones and the 360 will eat dust in worldwide sales.Good to go Sony,good to go.

[the_manson_charles]

Sony= jealous in this guys.

jailbreaking is legal, they have no evidence that they are releasing it to pirate ps3 games.

[Captain Tuttle]

Sony must really have no way to counter this. They'll lose and even more people will know about it. Even if they win and take Geohot's college fund money the stuff is out there in the wild, it can't be controlled anymore. They have to know that.

[mrmikew2018]

I wonder why Geohot release this information to public in the first place?

[rajman]

Yeh didnt Sony lose a court case against some guys who were selling the Jailbreak device in Spain? They claimed it allowed users to play games created by themselves and more importantly it allowed OtherOS, something that Sony removed...so the jury went int favor of the sellers. I see something similar happening here, its not as if any of those guys are selling anything, everything they got was from inside of the PS3. Sony needs to face the fact the PS3 is hacked for good, just how the X360 & Wii is, you dont see them taking people to court all the time

[Haseo106]

This is great! Arrogant kids need to be educated! Trash is always needed to be clean up! Sony is doing the right thing!

[llMurcielagoll]

I remember once I read something that Geohot is quitting being a hacker shortly after he hacked the ps3 longtime ago after he said he will release his own firmware to restore 'install other os'

I think he just said that to get rid of the attention (I am guessing this is obvious)

Now he and other hackers are in a heap of trouble. Hypothetically, say them hackers get away with it and PS3 still remains hacked and you play free games on your PS3 and not to mention emulators yaaay..

Yet a slight problem, you will not have PSN as a whole including online gaming, PS store etc, no firmware updates. If you go online you will get banned after years of playing on your PSN account being high level and loads of trophy achievements. All of this will go down the drain.

No thank you, id rather have a a hard or digital copy for whatever price depending on the game price and enjoy the PSN experience rather than staying offline to play free games and outdated firmware.

(Maybe off topic) I have my PSN account since January 2008 not that far but I also do remember that (I THINK) I was one of the first people ever that creates a PSN account in my country/region and Sony rewarded me with a Casino Royal BD movie haha.

[loslonelyman]

First, you can always get updates(game or system)...jailbreak or custom firmware...does not matter. What this court filing means is
A: That they need to show their shareholders(stockholders and board of directors) and software/hardware parters(first and third party alike) that they are doing EVERYTHING legally possible to protect both their contract agreements and relationships with these partners and protecting Sony's financial health.If Sony did not file this and some game developer went BANKRUPT ...THE SOFTWARE/HARDWARE COMPANIES could sue Sony for breach of contract by not protecting them from the keys being released/hacked.
B: That this release of the ROOT KEY/Master Keys is NOT FIXABLE,UPDATABLE and they have no way of putting Pandora back in the box. They may win in court...but not when it comes to reversing the damage that has already been done.

[llMurcielagoll]

Best of luck for Sony anyway.

Again, I am talking about myself as a consumer, if I get non-official custom Firmware or Jailbreaking the PS3 and I get caught by Sony on way or another I will be banned for good.

My comment is probably or say completely off-topic. Generally, I just wanted to point it out.

[MatthewMk2]

Good.

[divideby0]

good... for Sony and start banning PSN users who are using hacks

[TheTruth89]

Pwned ;D

[kewlkat007]

Sony will loose out in the long run...it's pointless. No stopping nerds

[TronEOL]

Oh lord how I wish I could have been one of Sony's lawyers on this case. How fantastic it would be to help sue the m-effers who are aiding the destruction of my favorite console. But I hope those other guys know if the case is serious enough Sony CAN send someone after them for breaking the law in the US even though they live in another country.

It was a terrible idea to say piracy can happen with hacking the PS3 in that press note they had at that hackers circle jerk. I'm pretty sure that works as evidence against the likes of GeoHot. Since they openly stated that they were aware that what they are doing can cause Sony's software to be stolen.

Can't wait to see how this works out. If they fail here, I'll be looking to do something about it.

[Captain Tuttle]

WHEN this fails what the hell are you going to do about it?

[Kurylo3d]

yea for real.. apple already failed when they jail broke the ipad... and actually its now legal to jailbreak the ipad because of it. Think of it... it is legal to hack the playstation 3, sony just doesnt want you to because of what can happen .. namely the theives... but the ps3 is a peice of hardware you purchased so its totally legal to do whatever the hell u want with it.

[divideby0]

Isnt this a violation of the TnCs for PSN ?
If Geo and Co are not sweating this out now, regardless of the outcome, they are just stupid or have some set on them.
The consequences totally outweigh anything they have accomplished

[muzzy]

Hello Geohot and other kids, adult world just kicked in. It's not a MMORPG in which you are powerful wizards with pointy hats. It's more like online shooter in which you die from random direction bullets. And no respawn, sorry.

[Blacksand1]

Now Sony is suing them I can sue to, when my bank acount get hack because of this i'm going to sue too. People don't realize, your acount number is on the game when you sign in to the PSN. Once the PS3 got hacked they open the door for all kinds of hacker's.

[DrillaKid]

I'm a law student (in Scotland) so i'm very interested to see how this pans out; "ownership" in law is actually quite restrictive and these hackers are very mistaken in taking the view that "i paid for it so i can do whatever i want with it" - that will not wash in court.

Also IP law is very technical and complex so no doubt Sony will have some of the best lawyers working on this.

Considering the amount of $$$ hackers cost companies i'm surprised that Sony, Apple, MS etc havent pressured govts to pass a law against it or at least tried the issue in court.

[Captain Tuttle]

Those companies haven't done anything because it's legal to do whatever you like to your legally obtained property. The only thing Sony can (and should) do is block access to PSN for anyone with a hacked console.

[joeorc]

it is legally obtained property. but what they do with the software on board of their Hardware is not theirs even though they bought the machine the software does not belong to them if Sony revokes their licence an they bypass that security which they have done. they are breaking the Law.

the Consumer Has no claim of Ownership to the software they have on the System they have a licence. that's the point you cannot claim ownership of something that is not yours.

"Title I of the US DMCA, the WIPO Copyright and Performances and Phonograms Treaties Implementation Act has provisions that prevent persons from "circumvent[ing] a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work". Thus if a software manufacturer has some kind of software, dongle or password access device installed in the software any attempt to bypass such a copy protection scheme may be actionable

In the United States, the Copyright Act defines "derivative work" in 17 U.S.C. § 101:
A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or more pre-existing works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a “derivative work”.

Example:

EULA vs's Consumer ownership
TEDDY MOORE, Appellant,
v.
MICROSOFT CORPORATION, Respondent.

Appellate Division of the Supreme Court of the State of New York, Second Department.
Decided April 15, 2002.

http://scholar.google.com/s...

when you agree..by using the PS3 you are agreeing to the TOS no way arround that if you keep using such device!

the Device is yours but the Software is not!

[DrillaKid]

"it's legal to do whatever you like to your legally obtained property"

This is where laypeople fail to understand the legal concept of "ownership";
u are NOT entitled to do anything with your property eg
-if u legally own a gun u cant go shooting people with it
-if u own a house u cant make any changes to it without planning permission (in the UK anyway)
-u cant drive on the wrong side of the road just because u own a car
These are just a few examples of the restrictive nature of ownership; hence law students are taught that a person "owns" an object when they can use and dispose of it.

There is nothing in the definition of ownership which says u can interfere with a person's (or companies') economic interests.

[Captain Tuttle]

joeorc...thanks for the intelligent response. that's interesting...I'll read it when I have time.

Bubble.

drillakid, regarding your car analogy, General Motors cannot sue me if I take a car I bought from them and remove the brakes. They can't do anything if I remove the windshield. I can (and should) be fined if I take that car on the public road however.

The PS3 is the car, PSN is the road.

Edit: Are you telling me that I cannot "use and dispose" of a PS3? What if I hack it and never go online with it?

Edit 2: Reading some more about that case you cited joeorc, that is in regards to software (Windows ME) and how he thought that it damaged his computer. I don't think it has any relevance to changing a piece of hardware though. I'm not a lawyer so take that for what it's worth.

[DrillaKid]

"Are you telling me that I cannot "use and dispose" of a PS3?"

No, I'm telling you that that is the definition of ownership.

The car analogy is also way off; you are not interfering with/damaging GM's economic interests by removing the brakes; hacking into a console and posting it online so that others can copy pirate games is compltetly different which is one of the reasons IP law had to be developed - to account for the unique nature of computer hardware/software.

A better analogy with GM would be if they had a patented engine device/design and you figured it out and posted it on the net so that tuning companies could copy it then you find yourself in big trouble with GM.

I agree with you that if you break open the console and never go online it wouldnt be an issue - Sony would never know anyway; it's the fact that they've told the whole world how to copy games (intentionally or recklessly) which will damage Sony.

Keep your posts coming; for once we can have an intellectual debate on this forum.

[Captain Tuttle]

About GM, anyone can take apart an engine and see how it works, patented or not. And post pictures on the internet. You just can't PROFIT from it as far as I understand. If I buy a GM car from a dealer that has the latest engine design I can tear the engine apart and post the process online. It's my engine and I can do what I want. Now if I break into GM headquarters and steal the design for a prototype engine not yet on the market and post it online, that's illegal. Can breaking the security of my own PS3 be equated to breaking into corporate HQ's? I personally don't think so but it's an interesting question and certainly debatable. FWIW, I'm not remotely interested in homebrew or piracy and don't even own a PS3, I just think this stuff is interesting.

You posted earlier about how you were surprised that companies don't do this more often considering how much it costs them. It's because it's a legal gray area, at best.

You're right though, good conversation. I'm out of bubbles but it was good talking to you. Good luck in law school and always be skeptical of people with power! lol

[DrillaKid]

You have to remember the difference between IP law and general law; the engine is covered by the latter whereas Sony will be relying on the former and under the US Code unauthorised access of computer info is illegal whether profit or not is involved. It is up to Sony to convince the court that their case comes within the wording of the section.

When you switch your PS3 on you agree to the terms of use but no one ever reads these.Google: "SYSTEM SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR THE PlayStation 3 SYSTEM" to see this.

Note in particular terms 2 and 7. Ultimately if your actions cause economic damage in IP law then you are always going to be at the end of a lawsuit. These guys cannot use the excuse that they do not condone piracy since their actions have already led to it. This will be a huge case in this area if Sony pull it off.

I'm gonna need all the luck i can get in law school :) Also i'm already very sceptical about people in power ;)

[novcze]

Hopefully they will end up in jail

[BABY-JEDI]

Best news I've read all year. ; )
Big smiles for all you Hackers out there. It's good to see Sony defending the industry & it's consumers.

[ashcroft]

How about I send that message and a link to the site to all known hackers, imagine you getting hacked to death, best news I would have read all year :)

If hackers got pissed for Sony removing otherOS, imagine what hackers will do if they Sony wins this court battle. I expect hackers who were never in the ps3 scene to start attacking sony, by sending out DDOS attacks to PSN and anything Sony related.

So have fun with your prolonged Black ops downtime as Sony just challenged every hacker in the world. They just started a war in which they cannot win.

[joeorc]

notice the age of these Hacker's?

notice people like Ben Heck would most likely never care what kinda grudge these hacker's are going to try to do..this is not against the entire hacker community as you so quick to seem to try to claim. I hack Hardware myself..but there is a no no that many Hacker's understand

you fool with Software your going to get bit soon enough. that's the problem. it always leads a trail if you go public with your Hack.

only this time it's going to speed up the process in finding those liable and sending out court order's.

The point is many Hackers will care less what happens to these guy's because it will mean less an less spot light's on them.

anyone who's ever been to a black Hat confab. knows this.

your on your Own.

[BABY-JEDI]

How about this Ashcroft. Well let all CRIMINALS go free. Know how will that help the world as we know it???
Hacking is a crime, get it! Know wake up & smell the coffee

[MAJ0R]

"sending out DDOS attacks to PSN and anything Sony related"

lol u can't DDOS sony's PSN servers, because their not a website

and if u honestly think this is as big as 4chan and the pirate bay u are horribly mistaken. tons of ppl need to DDOS at the same time

[Tzuno]

Piracy will never end.

[loslonelyman]

What this court filing means is

A: That they need to show their shareholders(stockholders and board of directors) and software/hardware parters(first and third party alike) that they are doing EVERYTHING legally possible to protect both their contract agreements and relationships with these partners and protecting Sony's financial health.If Sony did not file this and some game developer went BANKRUPT ...THE SOFTWARE/HARDWARE COMPANIES could sue Sony for breach of contract by not protecting them from the keys being released/hacked.
B: That this release of the ROOT KEY/Master Keys is NOT FIXABLE,UP DATABLE and they have no way of putting Pandora back in the box. They may win in court...but not when it comes to reversing the damage that has already been done.

[ReBurn]

Yep, I agree that what Sony is doing is more of a show of good faith to their stakeholders than anything else. The damage is done and now they have to have a show strength.

A lawsuit in civil court doesn't change anything, and it sure isn't going to scare hackers into submission. There have been lawsuits for decades for this kind of thing and it never stops hackers.

There is no honor amongst thieves and none of the other hackers will do much to support Geohot other than offer lip service. If Geohot becomes a casualty of this then he's more likely to become a martyr for the cause than an example in the eyes of his colleagues. Free Kevin, etc.

That said, if he loses a lawsuit I can't say that he doesn't deserve it. It's one thing to hack the console. It's another thing completely to hand out copies of the combination to Sony's safe.

[-Gespenst-]

What the fuck did they think would happen? Morons.

[SephireX]

Where did Geohot try to make money from this? I don't condone piracy but modding your console (your own property that you purchased) is fine. Sure, whoever leaked/stole the root key should be punished but where is there the evidence that Geohot or fairoverflow did it? It doesn't matter now though. We can all put homebrew on our PS3s. Its too late.

[BABY-JEDI]

He is causing people to lose money as well as supporting criminal activities all in the name of his EGO called look at me!

[Pledius]

OF COURSE! they would sell more consoles if people can use it to play bunch of free games!

but OF COURSE we know Sony ain't Microsoft! Sony actually cares about the whole gaming industry not just their own little hardware! They want to stop piracy so publisher/developers still get the money they deserve!

Microsoft don't give a crap about publisher/developers as long as their little console sells like hotcake for more money!

[awi5951]

Uhh sony some of these guys arent in the U.S. Thats like some german company trying to sue me and expecting me to show up for court lol. And alot of these guys who post ripped games servers are in china so your wasting your time.

[DarkFantasy]

Sony europe.. they are a big corporation you would be surprised.don't think being in a different country will stop sony from sueing these guys,there in more places then just USA and Japan.

[Grodd]

Yeah! Go get em Sony!!

[Rob946]

i was wondering why sony had not sued them already.They deserve it shouldnt be hacking in to the console in the 1st place hope they lose in court

[DarkFantasy]

HAHA hope they get what they deserve! suck it hackers.

[ReBurn]

I guess it was bound to happen sooner or later. Too late to really do anything about it; lawsuits don't put the genie back in the bottle.

[Tunerboy8732]

The shit just hit the fan.

[PatchowPietro]

Sue those dirty ****.

[Ethereal]

I hope the court sends them all to jail. Hacking is illegal and from what I read they stole copyrighted information and distributed it, which can easily been seen as illegal. Get em Sony. The last thing we need is more piracy to essentially stomp out our hobby.

[Raider69]

Sony will fail again!the hack is already out and the USA laws do not rule the world!

[Armyntt]

Wow its pretty hot in herr. Look at all the N4G lawyers. Im not a lawyer so im not going to put my ignorant 2 cents in on the legality of "hacking" a PS3. From my understanding and explain if im wrong but how is Geohot going to jail? If/when $ony does files a lawsuit against him does not mean hes going to jail. There was no formal "charges" filed against him by any police. He has neither been charged with a crime or admitted to anything criminal. I think if Sony pursues this it will be a bigger problem than if they just left it alone. If this gets mass media attention and a few people who have never heard of homebrew get ahold of this it could be much worse that Nintendo or M$. If they would have just ignored it this could been kept under wraps by casuals for a more years. Now that $ony is pursuing this route its only going to make matters worse by letting more and more people know this is even a possibility.

[joeorc]

the civil case against Geohotz an other Hackers is not what they are going to really worry about it's the Hacking the PSN which is the big problem. that is the real problem. the DA may bring charges on these individuals because they are hacking an online service and hacking private servers to do so is really criminal and that is one of the big problems no matter what Sony is doing right now the DA or what ever may take legal action against them as a show of "we are going to make an example of you"

not saying that it will but they could indeed do.

it's not Hacking the PS3 that's the real problem is what they are infringing on is.

a great example of this:

"Title I of the US DMCA, the WIPO Copyright and Performances and Phonograms Treaties Implementation Act has provisions that prevent persons from "circumvent[ing] a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work". Thus if a software manufacturer has some kind of software, dongle or password access device installed in the software any attempt to bypass such a copy protection scheme may be actionable"

notice this line:

"circumvent[ing] a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work".

the problem with many of the people that are so d@mn pro hacking fail to take into account what these hackers are doing.

Hacking your machine is one thing..but when they try to take control of the XMB away from the one's who made it is where they are going wrong.

in order to install "HomeBrew" can you do it without going through the XMB?

that very simple Answer is No. thus trying to take control over the Operating System of the PS3 is a no no.

the Hacker's will have no defense to such an action! thus their entire defense is Moot. Sony has Say over what functions can an cannot be added or removed from XMB.

any Consumer trying to take complete control over Software that does not belong to you as a consumer is illegal.

[Armyntt]

I understand that. I was just under the impression its fine to hack/modify a console as long as you dont play online? Basically because you bought that PS3. Thus if you play offline your not breaking any TOS, right?

[edoman20]

USELESS MEASURES FTW XD

SONY EEEEEEEEEEPIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII C FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIILLLLLL LLLL

CFW is the future XD

[Undeadwolfy]

I hope Sony sue this f***er for every penny hes got. Same goes for the fail0verflow team. Lets see them have another conference...

[NeloAnjelo]

These guys should all get banned and fined. I do believe there is a distinction from hacking and pirarcy. Geohot is a media attention whore. Fail0verflow had no intention of revealing the code.. But what does GeoHot do? Publishes it online. You can never wipe the internet of it.

These guys are smart yes... They should be working with companies to do the opposite. There is alot of money to make in internet, software and hardware security. Thats where there talents should be used.

I hope they got get screwed. The only problem is... How many people and hackers alike already copied the code?

[Armyntt]

Exactly its over. From my understanding $ony has their hands tied. Now that the codes out there the piracy train has started already and once that train leaves the station it doesnt come back. The way i have read it too is that $ony wont even be able to tell who is running cfw.

[Coffin87]

Oh my.. they should have tried to get hired by Sony, if they're that good.
Hackers have a very complicated lifestyle, until they realized they can be hired by governments with relative ease to do all kinds of stuff for them.
It would have been more wise to try to get hired for something.

[UP]

Why is it that only the comments that are saying sony is gonna loose marked as well said?

[Lastofallwhat]

They really deserved it. Im quite excited about this. LOL. Finally.

[Tjernobieleke]

We all are guilty (Yes, you too!!) when it comes to stealing money from big corporations, by pirating, but on the other side they are just as guilty stealing from us. We as consumers get fooled over and over again paying big money for overpriced media (DLC!!) and consoles(PS3?!!) and they get fooled by being pirated, wich balances this whole situation out in my opinion.

Geohot as well as Sony are drawing way to much attention to the issue right now and will probably both pay the price for it. Serves them well for starting a b.tchfight during a boxingmatch :)

[AssassinHD]

If you think the DLC is overpriced then just don't buy it. That is how the free market is supposed to work. Also, it is hard to say that the PS3 was overpriced, as it was sold well below manufacturing cost.

[NBT91]

Dunno why so many people care... People sue people for anything these days so for releasing tools that CAN ENABLE piracy on the PS3 I believe Sony is well in their rights to sue them, but I am in my right to say that it is a dick move.

[Snake-eater]

I hope sony set an example out of all this

[onenut]

wow this is awesome news, i didn't know we could hack the ps3, i'll be sure to let my friends know, thanks for spreading the news N4G

[laaakokaracha]

crazy stuff
I sense a lot of anger among some people who posted here

I dont really care though :)

I just want more JRPGs please !
I wish evil Taliban like Hackers would translate Xenoblade and TheLastStory so that we can all play it soon

[rezzah]

Woo look at em numbers pile up.

On topic: Im glad Sony isnt giving up. They should smash their faces in too. Especially the fool who "retired".

[BubbleSniper]

S.M.H

[GaMr-]

lol.....

[Darkfiber]

This kid is such an idiot. Making his parents pay god only knows how much money, and he'll have his salaries garnished for the rest of his life just so he can say LOOK GUYZES I R HAX TEH PS3 IM KEWL ON TEH INTERNEZ

[PantherDST]

AHHHHH haaa haaa ha. I hope Sony wins but even if they don't I love that this action is going to be a thorn in thier sides for years to come. These cases often take years to resolve. If nothing more they will be inconvienced and have to take time to address the charges. All in all a smart move by Sony. If they will it would be one heck of a deterant. I guess most hackers forgot about the guy who nintinendo sued for hacking and posting a Wii game. He lost and was fined millions of dollars for each of the games that were downloaded after he posted it.

[denero1]

darkfiber this kid made it legal to jailbreak iphone -_-

[Tommykrem]

Now you're going to have to let go of a lot of money... or try your best not to let go of the soap.

...If you're convicted, which for some reason I doubt.

[JoelEH]

UMMM NO! Why the F*** do I buy products for? If want to buy it and then dump it in the trash. That's my business! I understand that piracy is BAD! takes money from developers and makes our games crapier because they have less money to re invest in the games. I am Anti piracy and I agree that anybody caught playing pirated games should be banned. But its my effin buisness what I do with my PS3. If I want Windows 7 running on it. ITS my F****** business OSX! MY BUISNESS! if I want it to be a emulator. MY EFFIN BUISNESS. Sony is going to lose this, just like Apple did, Geohot has always been anti-piracy even tho his exploits are used for the wrong reasons. But this is bad news for Sony IMO, remember what happened to iPhone Jailbreak??? YUP! LEGAL! By law. So here is my Opinion. FU! Sony, give me my effin money back for my 3 PS3s if you don't want me to use MY PS3 for whatever the F*** I want. If your gonna have limitations on what I can do with my PS3 then take your Effin counsels back and we give me my money back. I PAID FOR IT SO FU SONY! Seriously, am I renting it? NO! I paid $600 for 1 of my PS3s $400 for the other and $300 for my wife's. So that's $1300 that I want back! Or STFU and take it. Your so called "Unhackable" product has been hacked and now they throw a B*** Fit! WTF! MY PS3. I paid for it at the store and it became MINE! if you don't want this s*** to happen then stop sales of PS3 NOW! You F***ing P**** a** company! "Unhackable" now your crying like little b***. they dared people to try to hack it at 1st and it finally happens and they turned into B***es. My S*** Sony! Or let me put it this way! I don't think Sony put my $1300 to good use. you know what Sony, I want some of it back! I want $650 back since MY PS3 is not actually mine it is still YOURS? NO! And sorry for my angry words guys. But this crap posses me off, just like Apple tried to tell me I could not JB my iPhone, Well guess what Apple, Kiss my A**! it's the law now.!

[JoelEH]

I can't see how people disagree with this. I CLEARLY posted that I DISAGREE for piracy. BUT I also reserve the RIGHT to do whatever I want with things I purchased. If some of you Disagree with that. Please reply on WHY? you disagree with that. I don't understand how you would want someone telling you what you can do with things you purchased. Let say you buy a car with a 350 motor in it and you get a mechanic to put in a 454. So now The maker of the car sues my mechanic for installing this new motor. On MY CAR PAID FOR! Does it make sence? Not to me. I want to know your logic please.

[fatalred alarm]

I can't believe all you guys.
I, in no way, support piracy or ever used anything remotely related to piracy. But these guys don't deserve their whole life destroyed and 5 years jailtime for modding your own bought hardware/software.

like those giants like sony and microsoft can't take the hit.. don't me laugh, this is just sad and pathetic.

[Daves]

Business and business and they just fucked with it... so now they can get some themselves.

I hope they rot in jail.

[fatalred alarm]

if you steal mars 3 times in the US, you go to jail.
It's pety theft,

[gcolley]

it is what Sony is good at. they sue people and then drop the case after it has cost them a bunch of money. anyone who disagrees doesn't know Sony

[IWentBrokeForGaming]

they wouldn't need to do this crap. I feel if they don't secure something, it's up for grabs... then they hate those that take advantage of it?

[JoelEH]

No see, the funniest thing is that they DARED! people to try hack the PS3 at 1st!!! WTF!!!!

[fullmetal297]

Know your rights. A section of the DMCA in regards to reverse engineering. Might as well every person responsible for unlocking phones.

"Reverse engineering (section 1201(f)). This exception permits
circumvention, and the development of technological means for such
circumvention, by a person who has lawfully obtained a right to use a
copy of a computer program for the sole purpose of identifying and
analyzing elements of the program necessary to achieve interoperability with other programs, to the extent that such acts are permitted under copyright law."