First Person Moves

[email protected] Writes: "Okay so everyone out there who owns a wii and thought that First person shooters would be cool on it please stand up! Now I’m sure there is a lot of you out there who probably went out and got the wii blaster and a first person shooter game such as maybe medal of honor heroes or something and had good expectations of how that would play out with motion controls. Some of you may have liked it but if your someone like me you noticed the flaws in this."

[Trebius]

But you can argue that anything ever designed can be made better.

I'm sure the way they designed the move will work well with FPS games considering it's already been coded into KZ3, MAG, and Socom.

They wouldn't do it if it's not going to work.

you're entitled to your opinion though.

[Bobbykotickrulesz]

I agree.

[Max Power]

Isn't the new Socom a TPS?

[JohnApocalypse]

I you tried to use Move in Killzone 3 multiplayer or MAG with the Move you'd probably get your ass raped

[zootang]

Wasn't this already tested with Socom 4? The move came out on top? Split second to point at a screen.

[JohnApocalypse]

Yeah, but what happens if you have to turn the camera around? In singleplayer this sounds fine because your always moving forward but what happens in a multiplayer map?

[eggbert]

You just turn with the Move controller..... Same like a mouse, just move the controller in the direction you want to turn. (assuming you've played a FPS on PC)

I believe your mixing Kinect up with Move, Kinect is the one that will have trouble with character movement, thats why the games are on-rails.

[Shadow Flare]

I'm assuming when the target reticule nears the edge of the screen, the camera rotates round. I don't see that being much of a problem. And I've also seen gun accessories for Move that have an analogue stick on the gun, which I guess you can turn the camera with. But like the guy above said, Move came out on top of the dualshock in the socom trials so....case closed

[ocnkng]

Correct me if I am wrong but is it not possible to attach the camera orientation with the move pointer? What I mean is that keep the controls identical to the DS3 just use the move as the input device instead of the right analog stick to control orientation. I agree with you that independent pointer movement inside a screen can be very good for shooting inside your viewport but once you have to turn around a little, it can get cumbersome.

[avengers1978]

Yes the move did win, and there even claiming it to be better than mouse and keyboard. I'd like to see that tested.
The move is going to work better than the Wii with FPS because the PS3 is so much more powerful than the Wii, and even with motionplus the wiimote can't get 1 to 1 motion, but the move does.

[tunaks1]

FPS on wii dont require motion control,
it uses IR which is 1:1...
the lack of knowledge around here is like looking at a forum after the wii launched. It is IR god dammit not motion control.

[b-real]

The move is not going to EVER be as good as the mouse and keyboard for the exact same reason the Wii is never going to be - this being the fixed reticle issue. Its the simple step of being able to lift your mouse up to disengage input and place it back in the centre of of the mouse pad when you are performing a 180 (or close to) turn. you cant do this with either of these devices, as when you reach the end of the screen you will turn - however getting back to a confortable/playable position will result in your reticle (and thus your percpective) moving back to where it was (or close to).

Developers have tried to combat this by using binding boxes that are in the centre of the screen - meaning that when your reticle is in that box it is not fixed, however when it is moved outside of this box it will make you turn. Making these boxes very small has made it alot better (See Metroid Prime 3) however still far from matching a mouse and keyboard set up. AND THE MOVE IS GOING TO HAVE THIS EXACT ISSUE FOR FPS. Regardless of its 'slight' increase in accuracy over a wii (with m+), it is not going to be any better for playing fps.

[syanara]

you guys are making a great discussion you should be taking this to the psn at home website HINT HINT! lol

[tunaks1]

So far the fps CONTROLS shown with move look kind of mediocre. I'll prob loose all my bubbles for this, but here it goes.
The control demonstration for MAG and Killzone 3 suffer the same problem early shooter did on wii,
Customizable controls and deadzones will solve these problems but for now it looks a step up from RS1 controls.

[ocnkng]

Lets face it, as the article correctly mentioned. This is not using IR, the Move uses an actual camera that tracks the glowing ball in 3d space. Additionally it uses gyroscopes and magnetometers to track orientation of the controller. The move actually uses almost double or triple data feed then the Wiimote does. I am pretty sure the tracking is 1:1 like a PC mouse.
IMO the move will give close to mouse like controls on a console FPS. Seriously Sony has a huge chance to revolutionize console FPS with KZ3 and Socom4. As a proud Ps3 owner I am hoping they get it right.

[tunaks1]

Motion controls arent needed for pointing...

IR is 1:1 so is the Moves pointer. Getting pointer controls to work is more complicated then that. You have to deal with the right amount of space before the camera starts turning. This is called "dead zones". If these aren't set up to your liking then it all feels stiff. Thats why customizable dead zones is absolutely necessary(And why conduit and reflex controls are great), and so far there has been no mention of customizable dead zones in Move compatible shooters.

[ocnkng]

truly mandatory? What I mean is that whats to stop them from implementing a control scheme without dead zones so that the camera moves wherever the Move pointer is pointed to. Its exactly the same control that the current right analog stick is using. If they do implement a control scheme with dead zone then, to not give the ability to customize would be brain-dead. Every console shooter has the ability to customize controller button layout. I would be very surprised if this wasn't there.

[matey]

agree m8 IR is the most 1 to 1 controls out there at the moment perfect 1on1 movements for pointing guns on wii best console period with not enough Goldeneye 007 level games but that game will change that though i agree wii has the best FPS controls and the Wiimote looks grown up not like a starwars toy that lights up.Wii has Metroid other M,Goldeneye 007,NBA JAM,Trackmania,All amazing games that use IR Trackmania uses it for making your tracks cool Console with the best yet to come i think.

[N4g_null]

Ocnkng this is an inherent design issue with gyros.

If move truely was better it would not need gyros. Or ethier the camera. What fans are claiming is some how the gyros in move are more accurate than the ones in the motion plus.

Then some claim it's because of the camera.

First of all for the camera to true track the move in 3d it would need two globes. Sure the camera can track the proximity of the globe but not it's angle thus you can not point with the move globe camera only. On the wii we can look for the two ir lights and use that to do the distance and pointing. On the move this can not be done.

So after the player moves off screen the full power of motion plus is used for one to one yet because we have to use gyros to aim you get some errors. Now this is all that move uses almost a 100% of the time.
This is bad for shooting games.
For example no arcade light gun game uses gyros for aim. All aiming is line of sight. With the move I can rotate the wand and the system never knows what it's pointing at it only guesses what you are doing based on the gyros.

This controller is setup for failure or waggle controlls. During stress playing or true fps combat you will need to constantly recenter it. We can do this on the wii with out the player even knowing once the IRlight are seen again.

The wii mote is effectively two types of motion controllers now. The pointer and a full one to one motion controller.

The fps controlls are pretty much perfect on the wii. Conduit 1 cleared all of that up. Red steel 2 is currently the control king till golden eye or conduit 2.

Here is a design issue we are dealing with on move right now. A player celibates the move in a off manner some thing 35 degrees off. Then tries to play the game that way. All gyro readings will be off so effectively the play will have to adjust to how off they are every time they play. Yet on the wii we can ask the player to level the controll to set the gyros then pick ot up and point it at the screen till both IRS are seen then gyro data is corrected and the true center can be found.

That way user error is limited. I'm mean come of the Mario maker was a industrial designer also.

Move is cool but half baked once more.

[cmrbe]

It all depends on how accurate it is and how it is implemented.

[Azurite]

If they make the screen follow where you aim instead of a loose crosshair in the middle of the screen... sign me up for some FPS on console action.

[Lombax]

The option for both. And everything in between!

[syanara]

infact I was thinking about exactly this if you remember the demonstration of move given on Qore the camera mode would be great for First person games

[jukins]

what i like about move, if you look at the socom 4 demo from e3. the person playing on the couch didnt have to actually put his arm out and point at the screen he kinda had the nav and move at knee lvl like a normal controller and kinda just tilted his move controller around instead of having to point at the screen. i got to try it out a playstation event in dc last tuesday and it was surprisingly accurate.

[matey]

Thats how everyone plays on wii 3 years ago i rest my hand on leg/knee and point and shoot with ease while resting my arm people like u have no information on wii ur just trying too hard to bash something thats been there done that sorry m8 try again

[No FanS Land]

I hadn't thought of the threshold problem, the fact that if you point too far on a side of the screen. With PS move, there isn't this problem. Nice :D.

I found metroid prime 3 to be really entertaining and well done as a shooter, but sony might just rise the bar.

Though, big N deserves some credit for actually putting the concept in the first place.

[writersblock]

On an official gun peripheral?
I want them to release one for like, maybe 20 dollars. Not just a chunk of plastic though, official sony. Ergonimic, full featured and somewhat decent looking (no bright pink plastic crap)

[saint_john_paul_ii]

yes.

http://www.ubergizmo.com/ph...

http://static.product-revie...

thats the offcial gun attachment for the PS move.

its going to cost around $20

[matey]

The conduit and MP3 have controls equal if not better than mouse full stop its IR and its 1on1 yes 1on1 its perfect tracks every little flick think when u point at the wii menu but pointing at enemies on screen but with full 3D control over your character and with the wiimote where ever u point the camera is behind u thats how ive been loving my COD WAR,CONDUIT,MP3 controls for ages and i and so do developers think its the best way to shoot in FPS games MOVE cant be better it has no D-Pad on remote and no speaker for hearing your bullets shells ping all over the place with vibrate ect Wiimote/Mouse rules for FPS its a fact Black-ops is using IR abd it will look like a 360 game in 480p FACT with superior controls no MOVE/KINECT because there softcore only even on the hardcore titles it waters them down FACT.