NextGN: Natal is Fatal for the Xbox 360

NextGN writes: "All my excitement and anticipation for Microsoft's Xbox 360 motion controller, Natal, is snuffed out. I remember watching E3 last year and feeling slightly embarrassed for Sony when they unveiled their motion controlling prototype - Natal seemed to have it all, their live demonstration was amazing. I was definitely planning on being one of the first to adopt the device into my living room. Unfortunately, Microsoft screwed the pooch, again."

[IndigoProductions]

Bad move, Microsoft. :(

[Evil Industry]

It could have been epic... it could have been.

[lovestospoodge]

Am I the only one who feels like tons of Xbox fanboys boasting over how great Natal will be have no intention of ever getting it?

[Shang-Long]

Umm does this mean natal is gonna be alot of casual stuff.?

[Mr_Bun]

I haven't seen any video to suggest otherwise, unfortunately

[Ravage27]

no you're not :p
Motion control is still viewed as a gimmick to most hardcore gamers and it's going to be difficult to change that perspective anytime soon.

I'll be lying if i say i'll buy Arc day one...unless of course they announce that it will be utilized in Demon's Souls 2...

[Syronicus]

Much like the Xbox 360 itself, they are going to ship it at the lowest possible cost using the most inexpensive means of hardware. It might give you the impression that it is a great product at first but it will not be more than the PS Eye-Toy when it is all said and done.

[Raf1k1]

It was obvious from the start that Natal was aimed at the casual market.

It can still be integrated into mainstream games though. I still think games like Mass Effect could benefit from it even with the removal of the processor if it was used at points in the game where the processor isn't being used much (i.e. interaction with NPCs).

[jamesgtaiv]

Microsoft has announced a shovel that connects to your xbox 360 via usb.

Dont even get me started on the arc. It has fail printed in the name. Lets hope they both fail. Miserably. Sony and MS are becoming focused on stealing another consoles fan-base. I dont want the real gamers being forgotten about. This is crap. Get out of your house and go for a walk if youre so hell bent on exercize. Maybe try a little critical thinking while youre out. Companies should provide for their current fan base before tackling users they are not certain to get.

[Danteh]

Natal is going to flop hard in my opinion... I just don't see it going anywhere since:

1) Hardcore gamers probably won't buy it for the same reason they don't want a wii: it's easier to just stay in the sofa pressing some buttons instead of moving around retardedly. Also massive shovelware

2) Casual gamers, which are the objective, probably will think that with a Wii it's enough... at the beggining they may be curious but.., heh

On the other hand, I think Sony's wand wont flop for 1 reason: retrocompatibility with current PS3 games

Yeah, it's like a wii remote, and nobody would buy it for the reasons said before, BUT if I can play Killzone 2 and LBP with 1:1 accuracy and maybe play a new RPG with swords and bows in full HD, I'm sold.

[King_of _the_Casuals]

This guy bases his whole argument on speculation. He nor anybody outside of MicroSoft have played with the finalized version of Natal. How the heck does he know what the performance is gonna be like???

But I trust successful professionals a little more then this guy. And EVERYONE who has played with Natal seems overly excited. This guy doesn't even understand the economics of having a successful product!

If MS was to keep the processor on the Natal, the price would go up, the potential market would shrink and Natal would fail!!! That is why they have to keep Natal price effectively low. This way, they will sell more and more developers will develop more games for it; because there will be a better chance to make a profit!!

NATAL....CAN'T WAIT!!! =)

[beans]

This is nothing more than FUD! Tired of reading biased crap with nothing to back it up with other than giving an opinion. Rather then enjoying the taste of Sony's fishstick in your mouth why don't you take it out and type something worth reading other then hate and jealousy! Natal hype is about to flood the market while the Arc try's to stay a float until it sinks at E3!

[bnaked]

I think Natal is totally great. But not for games..

[Bigpappy]

This guy is a fanboy with a website. His predictions are baseless and his fears unwarranted. Has any one ever stop to think that maybe Natal's internal processor was too slow? That maybe using the 10 % 360 processing power actually reduces the lag and save money at the same time? Of course not. Because the sky is falling. The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

I will wait until E3, then I'll have a look at the sky to see what every one is shouting about.

[ALFAxD_CENTAURO]

@Ravage27

ARC will be compatible with Killzone 3, means ARC is not even gonna be for Casuals at all, also for Hardcore gaming.

[rockleex]

Actually, their live demos were epic fail.

Need I remind you what the bottom of an Avatar's shoe looks like? How about the girl jumping and flailing her limbs around? The elephant?

The only reason why people were impressed was because of the pre-recorded video with the family in the living room, and Peter Molyneux over-hyping every little thing in Milo.

Even then, people were able to prove that the Milo interactions in the video was faked... especially during that water interaction segment.

[PeterPanParadox]

To be honest I always prefered Sony's arc. I like having a controller in my hand... gives you more control.

[Anon1974]

But I had to admit, seeing the Arc demo I could see it being used in games I'd play. Natal always looked like it was going straight for the casuals with Milo, Paint Party, etc. I have no interest in party games and if that's their primary focus, forget about it. I'm sure I'm not the only 360 owner that isn't going to ditch his Gears of War for Paint Party anytime soon. Natal is money I could spend on a game I'd actually play.

I had a Wii. It was a bust for me. Couldn't stand using the Wii-mote. If Arc replaces button presses with waggle, you can count me out of that as well.

Time will tell, but I'm not holding my breath for either Natal or Arc.

[Vegetom]

I think we have to wait for this years E3 to tell if Natal is going to flop or amaze everyone. Some statements in this article like: "This means the Xbox’s processor has to handle all of Natal’s applications; this could take up to 40% or more of the Xbox’s total processing power — so you can forget about seeing any Natal functionality integrated into any of Microsoft’s biggest titles like Halo: Reach or Gears of War 3." aren't based on fact either.

Why would a lot of great devs already be working with Natal if it could only do some mini party games?

[FiLTHY GAMER]

Yeah, E3 will reveal all... although I still think that quote has merit. There is still time to change, I hope. They should definitely release Natal with it's own processor.

[Vegetom]

Perhaps, but 40% of the total processing power lost? That's a quite a lot you know..
Where did they get that from anyway?

[FiLTHY GAMER]

It is.. that's why I hope you are right and that his facts are wrong.. but then again, what Natal is a powerful peripheral, we'e all seen what it can do, so "up to 40%" just may be accurate. The Milo demo looked like it needed a lot of processing power, and then we've also seen the lag issues and what-not.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

But again, you quote the article but who does the article quote?

Just 1 simple question: Who said %40? besides this article

[kneon]

I thought the number was about 15% of total CPU, which equates to about 45% of one CPU. That's still too high for the top end games.

Plus there is the issue of lag. Yes I know that recent videos show the lag is no worse than Killzone 2. But people forget that all games have lag and that the game induced lag is directly related to the complexity of what is happening on the screen. So we are seeing Killzone type lag with a glorified break out game. The game related lag for such a game is minimal, probably 1 frame at 30fps, so most of what we are seeing is due to Natal. Try adding Natal to a graphics intensive game such as the next gears, halo etc. and the lag will be even greater.

Had they left the CPU in Natal then they probably could have achieved something around 2-3 frames lag at 30fps. It can't go below 1 frame as the camera is only going at 30fps and there is still processing to do once the frame is captured.

[Nathan Drake2]

nobody wants x360.natal is not gonna change that.

[VINNIEPAZ]

You're a sad little man aren't you?

[Eddie20101]

Most of the people praising Natal in the first place will never buy it or if they do, will not use it much if at all after the newness warez off. It is just an attempt at capturing the casual games market, Me personally think it has very little chance of doing that.

Something that looks kinda cool at first glance but in the end is not very practical for gaming.

[ManiacMansion]

The only fatal thing are installs for a 25/50GB format and 600MB patches.

P.S. Iam a PS3 owner but YEAH, the installs and patches are fuken anoying.

[dustgavin]

At least PS3 has a mandatory hard drive compared to arcade 360 owners having to purchase one separately. You think the 360 has no patches or installs? Sounds like you are reaching for straws with that comment.

"It looks like Microsoft is going backwards with Natal. You can expect to see a lot of pointless gimmicky games on Natal — it will be like an updated version of the PlayStation EyeToy. I was really hoping that Microsoft would invest in this peripheral because it could have been something great — but, once again, Microsoft have messed up."

Yep. Agreed.

[mrv321]

Ironic isn't it, that for Natal to be backwards compatible you'd need a 8GB patch for games. LOL. Because they said the ONLY way Natal can work on disk based games you'd have to redesign the WHOLE game and have someone re-download the game from XBL. Nice.

Oh no installs... wasn't that the thing MS added because too many people got fed up with the jet in the room and the disk drive failures.

[avengers1978]

I've been saying this for some time, Natal will not bring new life to the 360.

[bashesh]

Can I have your PSN id. Would love to play few uncharted 2 mp rounds with you

[HypermysticsonicHMSX]

http://n4g.com/NewsCom-4884...

[2FootYard]

Natal does look like a piece of crap but I don't really see it killing the 360.

I only read the title so forgive me if my comment is assuming too much about the contents of the article.

[Das_Bastardion]

At least you're not preaching biblical-satanic stuff out of your ass like you recently did, i can see you got some professional help, im glad that you're back on this planet man

On Topic: mmm i agree with you, somehow i cant see Natal being as great as Microsoft want it to be, unless they used it to casual games of course, if they plan to take on the wii with this, then ok, they're on the right track, but if they want to appeal hardcore gamers... mmm... i dont think so...

Edit: : ) happy face for professional help
Edit 2: + bubbles

[Pennywise]

It will not kill the 360, but all the time, effort, and money put into it could of been used elsewhere. Its a shame.

Sony knew a camera with no controls would not be practical for the core games. They have had many years of testing it. Sure the natal camera HAD better specs, but still you need some sort of directional input. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

What is the source on this %40?

Is it too much to asks these site who are quoting numbers and figures to provide just a little proof?

I've seen %10-%15 quotes but I've never heard of this number.

[Not-So Average Gamer]

In this dudes defence, he does say 'up to' lol. He's not saying that it will be 40%...

Anyways, am I the only guy here who thinks the guy who posted this article has the best name on N4G? BobKoticksIsTheKiller -- LMFAO!!

[Anon1974]

Microsoft reported 10-15% but even after they announced that, sources involved in Natal development reported that figure was more like 33%.

http://kotaku.com/5443233/c...

Either way, games like Halo and Gears can't give up this processing power.

[Pennywise]

Yeah, I don't get where the 40% comes from... MS has always been upfront and honest with the numbers they release.

BLASPHEMY!

[plb]

Where is this guy getting 40%? Every other bit of information points to 15% max. I'm not saying Natal is going to be great and I don't expect any hardcore games for it but it's geared towards casual gamers and also works for a variety of other things such as navigating the dashboard. I don't think MS is stupid enough anymore to release some broken product ala Vista. Windows 7 and now Windows Phone 7 are proving to be quite awesome. I expect the trend to continue with Natal especially with all the big name developers praising Natal. Maybe we will see some more info tomorrow at GDC.

[RagTagBnd445]

I don't think Natal will succeed, either it is going be too expensive or else it is not going to work probably.

[NMC2007]

More armchair analysts spreading the cheer of doom and gloom? Sign me the F up! *eyerollsmiley.gif*

Hows about we just wait and see, remember when people used to do that?
I'm no motion control guy, I hate the Wii because of it(well, part of the reason), but what I hate more is all the damn doom and gloom floating around, omg it's gonna fail, 2 million reasons why this will fail, 50 reasons why this is a bad idea, top 10 bad ideas!

I am so damn sick of this sh**, aren't you guys?

[Neo604]

Even over price add on.

[X_GAMER_X]

Ok one quick question: When did microsoft remove natal's processors power? any link?

[Xwow2008]

http://www.joystiq.com/2010...

[barakiu]

what the bottom of an avatar's shoe looks like?

[Pennywise]

Probably has the crap MS has been walking in for years on it. BAM.

[Not-So Average Gamer]

lol, is that your witty way of calling BS?

[The Iron Sheik]

No,never,not even once.

[ceedubya9]

Mostly speculation here. We'll have to wait until these companies really show what their real plans and line up of games are before declaring anything a success or failure.

[Not-So Average Gamer]

Hardly, more like common sense. Check out the games that have been coming out lately, they've needed all the processing power they could get -- removing 10-40 of that power would be screw it up. Kotaku have commented on this, too. This guy knows what he is talking about:

http://kotaku.com/5443233/c...

[ceedubya9]

Until I actually see the full list of games, how they play, what they do, and what they use Natal for, I'm withholding judgment. I'm not calling it the next big thing, but at the same time, I can't call it a total bust yet either.

[tdogchristy90]

Call me old fashion but I like my standard controller. To me video games are barely video games without an old fashion control going back to like arcade games :). So again I like my standard controllers.

[Godmars290]

if they bring it out and the hands-free menu control isn't their day-one. Causes problems once it is released, or worse, costs money as an update.

[X_GAMER_X]

According to Microsoft, it makes more sense to use Xbox 360 microprocessor since it not only lowers the cost, but also makes easier to provide software updates for the console and the sensor.

[W-k]

oops wrong person.

[Pennywise]

Awww PSeye V1.5 will fail? Who would of known.

[tudors]

"Awww PSeye V1.5 will fail? Who would of known"

Yeh and Sony's wiimote reminds of the saying "went out with the arc"

[Pennywise]

Yeah 1:1 motion sensing with analog sticks and camera tracking is sooooo yesterday.

I will say it again just so people don't misconstrue my words: I would rather sit on a couch and play my games with buttons and no movements, but options to play different will be nice... especially when people are over my house. Sony has the best options for motion controls in the pipeline. We will hear more about natal and the wand in a week. Buckle up!

[Godmars290]

Thought the PS3 wand + PSeye was the eyetoy 1.5.

I mean if the Wand regenerates interest in the PSeye they two features Sony can expand on with support, not just one. Might even be a true 2.0 if you include 3D.

[Enjoi915111]

wiimotes on my ps3 no thanks ....thats just gay.

only thing ill use natal for is to control my dashboard and movies in my zune/netflix queue hands free..

as far as the copy/paste wiimote that sony is doing is just lame......ps3 owners are mature (according to ps3 fans) and all over the age of 30 we dont want no wii sh!t

[W-k]

@Enjoi915111
"only thing ill use natal for is to control my dashboard and movies in my zune/netflix queue hands free.."

if that's the only reason to use natal.why bother even buying it really just to help you watch a movie ? HA!! are you that lazy ?!,i would of thought some one would have bought it to play games,but nope seems people just want Natal to help them watch movies.but what your saying is Sony isn't allowed to copy the competition with there motion controller and that its "gay" but M$ is with there modded eye toy really there both in that case a "copy/paste" job. i for one welcome the motion controllers i would love to see some great rpgs like mass effect and dragon age maybe even elder scrolls to take advantage of this and deliver a better experience and really make you feel like your in the game and they could still do this so that you could switch from motion controller to the game pad on the fly so that people who dont want to use the motion controls at that time or never want to use them dont have to,

"ps3 owners are mature (according to ps3 fans) and all over the age of 30 we dont want no wii sh!t "
maybe you can take a lesson from a mature ps3 fan and act a little more mature your self no need to go around calling things gay that's a little childish or homophobic.

[TheGuardianFID]

I coulda bin somebody!!!" 8P 8)

[escobahr]

but didn't we all allready know that this just an attempt to capture wiimarket share and reinvent the 360 during its waning years until the next console comes out? not to say they are gonna dump hardcore games. but as microsofts console becomes the older horse, they have to pick up new market share somewhere.

i just hope that nobody assumed this device was for hardcore gamers. it's going to be their wiifit. and with all the money that wiffit made...i don't blame them

[tudors]

Your all so clever and full of knowledge aren't you, forget the fact that Natal is not even out yet, forget that E3 is just around the corner, and that top devs including Hideo Kojima think it is fantastic, and you keep mentioning the CPU usage like there is no room for improvement, and this article what is it exactly apart from a deliberate smear campaign, this guy does not really elaborate much does he other than quote a figure only quoted by himself, why not just add a few % just for hits, he does not focus on strengths VS weaknesses just weaknesses, it's a poor article to a non *anboy and a fantastic article to a agenda driven *anboy.

[MajestieBeast]

That was before they removed the processor now its just eyetoy 1.5. Tudors dont cry have fun playing ricochet while the rest of us play games that grandma doesnt touch.

[Pennywise]

Tudors... Ive had natal sitting on my TV for the last 3 years. The PSeye was a gimmick. Sony knows this... thats why they are adding controls to it and pushed back eyepet.

You can rant and rave and try to overpower us with senseless walls of text, but we will not falter. We will not break.

Have fun with your laggy volleyball game.

[strickers]

The 10-15% was from MS.Anonymous dev said more like 15-33%.Travellers Tales had a lead guy who said Natal had lag and that he preferred Arc.It's worth bearing in mind that most of the excited Natal dev comments came early,pre chip removal.Devs thought they could just add it to games with no power hit.Some devs/publishers were rumoured to be cutting Natal budgets for games since the chip announcement.
Arc can be patched into older PS3/PSN games and Wii games can be ported and improved easily.
We'll know more sooner than E3(where MS will show Natal)because Sony are showing Arc at GDC with a full presentation to devs.
With the Socom annoucement and early Arc showing,Sony must really have some games for E3.

[king123]

well I will buy it but not just for the games and natal itself but for the milo game and the interface control
that alone sold me out

[Enjoi915111]

same with sonys copy paste of the wii-mote...whats it called...black dildo and pink balls....with a nun chuck to...lol

[Jackel2072]

The article started off well giving good reasons why Natal Loosing its own independent processor is bad, but then it turned into some halfcockked rant about PS3 motion controls being Superior(which we have little to no info on) Also the man lost me when he said 3D gaming is the future. sigh.... Darn you Avatar.

P.S. really N4G i can't say halfcocked? i half to miss spell it? Giant Bomb forums FTW

[tudors]

Just out of curiosity how old are you 10, you need to grow up mate.

[The Iron Sheik]

M$ made its way in the console world with shooters, so most of the xbox fans are shooter fans. Now they expect these shooter fans to buy this thing which I doubt will have any use in shooters. Real bad idea.

Actually having first party studios would of been a much better investment for M$.

[Convas]

... you and I are in agreement. Microsoft should've spent it's Natal cash on more First Party Studios.

But I will disagree also because I am a complex gamer, which means I enjoy a host of games, not just shooters.

[captainjy]

$50 says Natal will fly and do very well, $100 says that if Natal was on the PS3 that the tune around here would be much different.

[hoops]

Amazing....so much hate for a product NONE of you tried. You guys take the opinions of others when it suits you. Funny how nost of these blog sites bashing Natal NEVER tried it either.
How abut we do something smart and WAIT until the final product is put before its bashed? Opps. This is N4G.COM. Silly request. Site is full of 12 year old fanboys of MS, Sony and Nintendo

[RELAX]

you are TOTAL RIGHT

[ALFAxD_CENTAURO]

''their live demonstration was amazing''

This guy didn't watch all demostrations in E3

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[RELAX]

but STIL it can do shomting AMAZING..
THERE IS SO MANY GAMES IN DEVLOPMENT maby ther wil come a SUPRISE GAME OUT.
god luck MS

[00]

Black on black, my god who ever designed that site needs to be fired.

[Tron_Rocks]

I will buy it day one. Blows away the stupid looking eye toy and the lame Wii mote...

Natal is the future and a year from now Stony and Nintendoz will be scrambling to catch up yet again.