Is N4G Bad for Games Journalism?

During Topic#4 of Counterpoint, Joel Taveras and Jay Michaels stop playing around and approach the topic of N4G with honest, unbiased introspection and attempt to answer what it means for the little guys (and games journalism in general).

[Tomarcus]

Now this is an interesting topic. Watching now.

[-Alpha]

I've always said it before, the answer is no, not really.

The flaw is in the fact that articles and news that are approved are approved because a ruling majority dictates what should be approved and what shouldn't. This basically results in censorship.

I've always found that this site has always been made up largely by Sony fans, and though I've come across some rational ones, there are numerous amounts who have been given the authority to approve just because they pass a "test".

For example, look at Gamespot and its awards. Not once have I seen an article saying "Gamespot's 2009 Awards"

Instead I see "Gamespot gives RPG to Demons Souls" "Gamespot gives best action game to Uncharted 2" "Gamespot gives best FPS to Killzone 2"

People cherry pick the news, glorify it, and it gets approved.

Oh, and let's not forget the random blogs that get approved. They aren't judged upon the academic standard of how well a blog is written, or even if the blog is stating anything important, but if it's approving something the majority like, it gets approved. The system is completely illogical.

Like I said, the site is run mostly by Sony fans, and it's not necessarily a bad thing, but some are irresponsible and truth be told, it ruins the site. Being a Sony fan is not the problem as I'm a Sony fan too, but the problem is rooted in the approval system and who controls what "news" is.

@JoelT, doing that right now, decided to post my comment first ;)

Edit: Regarding HHG, ironically enough the community seems to be against him because they find him to be a joke. And I'm not sure what the foundational history is that makes them hate HHG, but he notoriously known for being "a joke". I personally do not like HHG because he seems very biased and one sided, but recently I have decided to put down my own bias I have created and look at him a little more seriously. I dislike his N4G titles mostly which always seem a little inflammatory and extremely fanboyish for the PS3, but again, I'm planning on reading into HHG a little more before hating on him like I usually do. I could be bias of HHG even though I feel he is bias for all I know, which wouldn't be a logically sound thing to do.

[JoelT]

I do agree with you but watch the clip as we discuss that there's a lot more to it than that.

[jayblings]

@alpha

You are right that the site does seem to favor Sony over Microsoft but like Joel says there are a lot of other factors that contribute to the "news" that is posted. I like the idea of N4G and it obviously is a great place to go to find the little nuggets of gaming journalism or news you might have missed but the approval and submission process needs an overhaul.

[PirateThom]

Aplha, I've no idea how long you've been posting on this site, but consider that around a year and a half ago this place was run by Microsoft fanboys should give you an indication of how pointless complaining about it is anyway.

[-Alpha]

Can you give me some evidence of the site being run by MS fanboys? I simply can't take your perception as the truth since you could be wrong.

Even if it were true, why would it be pointless? I'd rather bring the issue up rather than accept it. You find it a problem that MS fanboys used to overrule N4G right? So why should it not be the same today (assuming you are stating the truth)?

I see no point in telling me not to complain about it since the whole purpose of this article is to look at the issues of N4G.

Edit: @Xiphos

I am willing to take Tom's word for it, but let's stop thinking about the past and try to relate back to the topic. ANY fanboy group, or any overruling majority controlling "news" is pure censorship and makes for a flawed and unjust system.

I don't care if it's 360 fans back in the day or the PS3 fans of today-- News should NOT ever be controlled by a ruling majority like that.

And it's not just the news. I also find the "Agree/Disagree" system to reinforce that you can't say anything bad about something because then you have a boatload of spammers giving you "disagrees" instead of actually attempting to have an intellectual argumentation.

[Megaton]

Thom's right about this site being a 360 fanboy haven back in the day. When I signed up in 2007 it was a death sentence to say anything positive about Sony and the PS3. It was ridiculous. The tables have turned today, with Sony having the larger fanbase here, but it really pales in comparison to the army of 360 fankids from back then. That's why I always laugh when new people say this is a Sony site. They have no idea.

I agree that fanboys shouldn't have any right to approve/submit stories. It clogs the site up with nonsense. The problem is that the N4G overlords don't see it that way, and I've never seen people get their approval/submission privileges removed, even if they REALLY deserved it. Hell, Bloodmask (N4G's long-standing #1 contributor) used to be one of the worst offenders of fanboyism at this site, and you can still see traces of it in many of his submissions. I guess they figure all traffic is good traffic.

HHG is a great example of how N4G fails. You can tell that a good chunk of his "news" could have literally been pieced together by yanking words out of a hat, and have absolutely no basis in reality. Despite that, his stories keep getting jammed through thanks to the same handful of people who approve for him, and they still reach 1000 degrees consistently. It is absolutely mind-boggling how the staff here has allowed him to crap all over the site for this long. He's been doing it for so long, that there's a good-sized group of people who actually defend him now, no matter how totally made-up his stories are. Again, it's gotta be chocked up to "all traffic is good traffic". People arguing over terrible articles create heat, so they really have no incentive to stop it.

[Saaking]

N4G is not that big of a site. Compared to bigger sites such as IGN and Gamespot, N4G is still small so I doubt it has any impact on game journalism (other than those small blogs made just for N4G). That's why I like this site. The rules are much less strict and there's less people. You look at IGN or Joystiq and they've got hundreds and sometimes thousands of comments. That's very rare here.

[Nihilism]

Who cares if it is, small games journalism never had credibility, and the larger sites are driven by ad revenue, and the reviews cannot be trusted for suspicion of money changing hands, gaming journalism needs a standard before it can even earn the title of journalism, and in all likelihood, the majority of 'gaming journalists' have no formal qualifications and are not journalists at all, sit back and enjoy the insane uninformed rants and childish blogs that pass for news, because that's all we're ever going to get, here or anywhere else.

Just look at Adam Sessler, a whiny teenager in a mans body.

[Darkeyes]

I don't know why people still cry about N4G... Here is the fact, if it weren't for N4G, half of the sites you guys run wouldn't even be known by now and we would only have the IGNs, Gamespots and Gametrailers opinion in our head... You wrote an article which rose up to 400 Degree and was taken out big deal, you at least got those hits that you wouldn't get if you didn't put the article there on N4G in the first place.

Ya N4Gs not fair and there are people who will put your article down in the pending section, but if you are smart enough to make a video about it, then you must be smart enough to know the TACTICs of getting your article up on the front page. I ain't advocating the sh!t, but look at HHG, his article has NEVER spent more than 5 min in the pending section.. Why??? Cause the fans following him approve his article and he himself uses multiple accounts.... Is it fair HELL NO, but at least he has the brains to get the article in here and it ALWAYS reaches more than 500 Degree....

And @ALPHA... Just look at the bottom of any N4G page, and press the pages at the very end and go into any article and see how many PS3 and 360 fanboys were there.... The situation was even worse than it is now, but the roles were reversed.

[we won]

The news on this site has nothing to do with information sharing. PS3 fans have taken over this site long ago and have complete control of this site.
For the most part fanboys use this site for their agenda's and post news in *Gatcha moments* and to bash or praise, there simply isn't any other reason they post here 90% of the time. So many PS3 fans post here they have abused their power. They have driven all the other fans of other consoles away and what is left are PS3 fan mods.

As for news, what gets approved or doesn't get approved, depends on what the PS3 fans allow or what they can't get blocked. Most the news here are from blogs selected because the majority likes what the blog is saying.

I'm surprised people are still afraid to say the PS3 fanboys are the problem-flat out vs half hearted ways of saying *the guys on N4G* or *the guys that report all the time*

No other place on the web can you get hundreds of PS3 fans in 360 articles and no 360 fans in PS3 articles.

@Alpha-Male22 #1.5
It's because there are a few 360 fans at any given time and they prefer none. So they come up with that BS.

[beardpapa]

Even if this site is run by fanboys, isn't it still ultimately up to the mods (and the fanboy inside) to decide what article hits the top and how many degrees?

There are some articles I've seen here on n4g whether they be for or against one company/game, and there'd be tons of comments in it but barely hitting pass 200 degrees. While other articles with only 15 or so comments over an entire day soar pass 580 degrees and hit the top page.

I'd say, most of the articles submitted to N4G are inconsistent, but I do feel that [and one can make by observation] N4G seems to enjoy its own daily traffic by regularly placing flamebait articles to the top with the highest degrees.

Some articles (non-flamebait) are well deserved and up there, while others more obvious become the highlight of the day and also probably drives the most pageviews.

Anyway, going back to the top, I am under the impression that mods are the ones that determine how many degrees an article gets. So if that's the case, isn't N4G really run by the mods and not by the article contributors?

I think it's crazy for people to call out one side "controls" a site. Gamersyde for example, I've read them since long ago when they were Xboxyde and covered tons of 360 related material. It was only later on when they merged with their smaller sister site PS3syde and became Gamersyde. I thought it was insane when they released a GT prologue video, said it looked great, and then people were saying the editors at Gamersyde were ps3 fanboys! Gamersyde we're talking about here! Once a big xbox 360 video site with a really pathetic ps3 site merged-into-one and then being called a ps3 fanboy! Absurd!

[littletad]

Has become a site that I only turn to for news that mainly concerns the ps3. It's not to say that there isn't any 360 news, cause there's a lot, but it only refers to big hitters. This includes Halo and Gears, and the other famous franchises. Obviously, news becomes dictated by the majority, but that's just a small problem. The real problem is having a voice. Say something bad about Sony, even if it's constructive, and you could lose your bubbles in a few days notice. The people who are one sided, Sony, have too much power.

We lost our sense of what being a gamer means, and as a result, this site has become a battleground for console preferability , not games themselves.

[sakura2009]

how did ur bubble went down to 7 bubbles pirate thom u had like 10

[anh_duong]

think games journalism as a whole is bad for gaming:

- spend too much time provoking gamers
- corrupt
- don't complete games for their reviews
- plagiarise
- often uneducated - in a professional manner.. i.e. career qualifications

problem is games journalism is an underpaid and easily corrupted profession dominated by fanboys or people with fanboy provoking mentality.. recipe for screwing over gamers because of their dodgy reviews..

[Marceles]

I remember those days like it was yesterday, it seems like no one remembers it was just as bad the other way around when N4G first started. But then the tide slowly changed...

http://www.n4g.com/NewsCom-...
http://www.n4g.com/NewsCom-...

[wages of sin]

@Joel,

I found the posted videos to be insightful and interesting. I may not agree with everything said, but it's presented in an intelligent debate and conversation about a given issue, and for that I applaud you guys.

Now, as far as the bulk of the main topic of discussion is concerned, I'd have to agree with Alpha's initial response. No need to rehash his points as I believe he aptly covered them.

The one thing I did want to go into was the part on HHG. I'm new to this site, let alone HHG so I may not be the best judge of his overall show, however, after watching it twice...I know it's not for me.

A lot of that has to do with his "style". It may be cool for some, entertaining even, but for me, it's annoying and unprofessional. For example, the first show I saw of his was with N'Gai and I couldn't believe what I was watching. The PS3 rap thing was a turn off as well as it came off as unprofessional as well.

It's one thing to write about or present news in the form of a review or an opinion piece. It's another to present it from more of a hard news perspective and I think many people can't distinguish or know the difference. Part of the problem is that many game "journalists" don't actually have any journalistic training. I think it would do many a reporter well to pick up a copy of Harrower's "Inside Reporting" and learn the difference. Hopefully when I'm done with my classes, I can help bring something to the table. I don't mean that offensively at all, I just feel that rather than complain about it I should do something about it. And so, I am.

At any rate, cool videos.

[we won]

N4G is full of Wii fans and they troll 360 articles, out numbering the 360 fans by 6 to 1 always bashing the 360 and bring up Zelda and Mario.

End/Sarcasm

It offends you because it hit home for you. This is a prime example of what I'm talking about. I explain what is going on and you are getting all emotional about it.

Blaming game journalism for N4Gs problems is the biggest crock of Sh8T excuse I have ever seen. The problem are the people in control abusing their power for their agenda or people trying to get points for their stories by "choosing" rubbish news.

This is the wrong place to make friends so how you feel about me is not important. You hate me because you tired to blame the media for N4G meltdown on journalism in your first post, trying to deflect the reason and it bothered you because it hit home with you lol.

Just hit duplicate story on me.

EDIT
@whothedog

Yes the so called "victim" or victims can be found in swarms, in the PS3 section(sarcasm). Are you sure you're not confusing 360 fans giving their opinions in 360 articles after you PS3 have tracked and entered the 360 articles?

EDIT
@Alpha-Male22

The history is like this.

N4G was split up in sister sites.
1) PS3 fan over to the 360 sister site to bash the 360 because it launched first.
2)360 fans got revenge on the PS3 sister site after repeated attacks.
3)N4G joined all sister sites and all was good for a short while.
4)PS3 fans attacked PS3 so much 360 fans wanted revenge and they bashed PS3 issues early on.
5)PS3 fans thinned out and the site was mostly 360 fans for about a year.
6)Blu-ray won and PS3 fans got bold.
7)PS3 fans started working the system and took control
8)PS3 fans took over and drove everybody from the site except PS3 fans.

[sakura2009]

pixelenemy is a troll site dont

[sakura2009]

dont click on it

[Applegate]

N4g is the best.

[Cold 2000]

Just check the forums, the PS3 forums are almost all at least 3 times bigger than the 360 forums...to think that this site isnt owned by Sony fans is naive.
http://forums.n4g.com/defau...

Just an example:
11 000 topics and 220 000 posts in the PS3 forum

3400 topics and 58 000 posts in the 360 forum...

Kind of says it all, and also explains all the disagrees you get for saying anything even slightly not pro-PS3

[whothedog]

Yep, I joined N4G when it was the other way around. I would say there are more PS3 fans now but I don't think its that bad, I still see articles that totally are flamebait for PS3 people to get upset at, and I don't think PS3 fanboys would approve it so I know there are 360 ones still out there

@dchalfont
Got to love when fanboys play the victims

[Bungie]

have to agree

N4G is full of haters

[SixTwoTwo]

When I first joined this site it was lined up with 360 fanboys and the PS3 was getting ripped to shreds. Every PS3 exclusive was called a flop, multiplatform games were being ridiculed, PSN was getting torched. It was so ridiculous that it became hilarious in a way. But now that the shoe is on the other foot and the PS3 has become the alpha console for many, the PS3 fanboys are returning the favor. I try to be a real gamer and not support it, but it is what it is.

[GUNS N SWORDS]

i would have to agree with (Cold 2000)

but i think what would help the system a whole lot better is if there wasn't any fanbase controlling ANY of the news what so ever.

also take out the bubble and the disagreeing/agreeing system, i know at least 30 gaming sites that don't use it and maintain a whole completely friendly appearance.

being how this site is, it's actually contributing to fanboys....which is very hypocritical to the term "gamers" used in News 4 Gamers.

there's no point in using the word if the site ends up being controlled by a specific fanbase, gamers alike should be able to see what they wish and to speak their opinions on their favorite titles or subjects.

[Viper7]

Whats this? First it was the X360 fanboys running the show and suddenly people are plaming on the Ps3 fanboys. Imo this kind of blaming is just plain retarted, as its common sense that the system thats "hottest" at the time is getting more posts.

SCE has really boosted their amount on first party exclusives in few years, dropped the price and done all kinds of other things to improve their image and are currently enjoying their "justified/unjustified&qu ot; goty rewards. Its no wonder they are getting nice amount of good publicity among bad publicity.

Maybe the "X360 fanboys" are too close minded to realize that Microsoft starting to fall behind sony with their games and services and blame N4G community for that. :rolleyes

and to the topic

Imo N4G and sites similar to that only improve the accesability of news and reviews. There are many pretty good sites/blogs/etc that I had never even known about before reading n4g news. Although there are some problems with the "approving" system as there's quite much **** still being posted and approved.

[LostDjinn]

Hey "we won"...
"The history is like this.

N4G was split up in sister sites.
1) PS3 fan over to the 360 sister site to bash the 360 because it launched first.
2)360 fans got revenge on the PS3 sister site after repeated attacks.
3)N4G joined all sister sites and all was good for a short while.
4)PS3 fans attacked PS3 so much 360 fans wanted revenge and they bashed PS3 issues early on.
5)PS3 fans thinned out and the site was mostly 360 fans for about a year.
6)Blu-ray won and PS3 fans got bold.
7)PS3 fans started working the system and took control
8)PS3 fans took over and drove everybody from the site except PS3 fans. "

You learned all that in ten days?
You really hid the fact you're using a duplicate account well.
Just for the record dchalfont's a PC gamer.

Well, I for one would like to congratulate you. You squeezed an amazing amount of fail into just one comment section. Nice work.

On topic - The site is not to blame for the state of the user base and the nature of the site hands power to the user base after all. It's the users that make the site good, bad or indifferent.

[nix]

i've realised that there are more "level-headed" gamers here than the whiny ones who wants MW2 or DA:O to win. we do have whiny ones here but thanks to the dispersed numbers, their voice gets lost here.

i, love this site because i can't go to every site just to check on games. N4G gives me a spectrum of views which really helps me pick up a game or decide which site is biased or not.

as for N4G being a pro-PS3 site, one should have been here around 2007-08. "PS3 doomed" "ps3 has no games" were the only articles that used to here. i'm happy that the PS3 isn't what it was when it came out and the proof is 2008-09.

i feel PS3 has given me enough of great times. in the last two years i've picked up 20 games and 95% of them are PS3 exclusives. PS3 exclusives games i think are way above the multi-plat games in terms of graphics and quality.

i don't like 360 for it's hardware problems plus the only game i want from 360s exclusive library is GeOW series. it looks fun.

2010 is going to be a great year again. at least for me. Heavy Rain and GOW3 in the first quarter. "WOW!"

as for the topic, i don't think N4G is bad for Journalism but the question is - "what games journalism?" gaming journalism sucks big time this gen.

[sikbeta]

I'm not here for too long, only 4 months , but a I made a little of research for you:

http://forums.n4g.com/the-h...

http://forums.n4g.com/tm.as...

Just Read lol

[Aleusia]

I'm not sure why you guys are blaming the sony fanbase for approving all of the BS articles around because most of the fanboy articles that are approved are "SONY IS DOOMED" articles or MS figureheads speaking out against the PS3...I don't think it's the Sony camp approving such articles. Please get back to me if you want to refute my claim.

[presto717]

There used to be 360 fanboys like Mart, Jason and Murder. Threads used to be pretty interesting back then, as those guys made interesting / funny arguments. But now, I must agree that now that sony is owning, most of the people are pro ps3. I'd like some balance between both sides every once in a while you know...

[Sarcasm]

"I'd like some balance between both sides every once in a while you know... "

You can count on good ol Jason 360 to defend anything 360 related regardless of how baseless it is, and spin anything positive PS3.

[itisa]

The answer is absolutely no.What I like about this website is that I have the power to Let User Speak@Shut User Up or Agree@Disagree unlike other major gaming websites like Gamespot or IGN.Take Kotaku's 2009 Disappointments for example,if I'm one of their website users who supported Ps3 which are absolute minority in that site,I don't have any voice unlike in here I can report those article as Lame or something else.From one point of view,one can say the majority of users(in N4G,at this moment,the Ps3 supporters) have too much power.From different point of view,this is totally better than having some fanboy article writers write some Lame articles and get away with it.

In conclusion,the way I see it,the one complaining at N4G are the minority supporters of a certain system,whether they are journalists or gamers,and the way I see it,it is no different than any other gaming sites.Who know somedays maybe Xbox supporters might turn the table at N4G and when that time comes,will any of these "Neutral Game Journalist" come to Ps3 supporters aid?

[Jinxstar]

Most of the time anymore I just ignore anything that says "Top 5" or "Top 10" because it IS NOT NEWS! It's an opinion on something that is normally not the same as 95% of others simply to drive up hits.

Whenever I see a HHG article I report it. Why? Simply put all I have ever seen from him is insanely ridiculous speculation. I could write an article saying "Zelda coming to the PS3" and you know what would happen? Nothing. It would get shot down and smashed and I would be ripped a new one by everyone. However if HHG does it his site lackeys approve it and he somehow gets a free pass time and time again. Also as far as the gaming community goes. I don't want him in anyway representing the "Fans" I could care less if he has an interview with Michael Pachter or Reggie Fils... I really have no ambition to ever "hang out" with these guys... I don't want to be in anyway associated with "Hip hip" or "Gangsta" in anyway. It's a cop out and... "Lame"

As far as news worthy articles goes.... This is a "News" site. What sells in any form of news medium "Sex, Death and Violence" On N4G it's "Cosplay/nude what not", "Brittnay Murphy secretly voiced video games" or "13 Year old stabs sister for beating him in Halo" as well as "Who won what" and "X console is better then Y because a no name blogger has a list of 10 reasons"

@ Alpha male

How long have you been on this site because 2 years ago it was completely flipped. There were very few PS3 fans and a huge 360 following. Which is still present hence my bubs dropping from 10 to 7. I feel they are just less vocal then they used to be and more "Bubble stealing"... if that makes sense... I think I have stalkers... Back on topic though.

It doesn't matter. I mean... If this were my discussion I would have discussed it from a "posters" or "Commentors" point of view but the people arguing have a totally different perspective due to this being their "Sites" and "Blogs" and otherwise... Their bread and butter comes from this and thats fine but 99% of the stuff these "Smaller sites" post is not in anyway news... It's speculation, Top 10 lists and console opinions to drum up traffic. Just like this video...

[DaTruth]

This site switched from pro-360 to pro-PS3 the day the $399 PS3 was announced and PS3 steamrolled over 360 that Christmas. A torrent of pro-PS3 news was unleashed across the globe and N4G's front page! At that point, 360 owners couldn't take the turning tables, dish taking and own medicine taking and fled the site!

Many pro-PS3 related articles don't make it through approvals with an insane amount of reports. Some PS3 News articles have 100's of comments and are stuck at 100 degrees!

[solidjun5]

...deletes oner post when it mentions anything negative about bloodmask. go figure.

[ABizzel1]

n4g isn't bad. It's the comment section. You can go to one article and find some stupid 11 year old trying to start a console war, that is doing nothing for them.

A lot of people say n4g is full of Sony fanboys, but when I first got here, every article and comment I saw was about how the Xbox 360 is better and going to crush the PS3, and you would be attacked and ridiculed if you said anything positive about the PS3 no matter how true it was.

Now that Sony's taking leaps every year the tides have turned and now the Sony fanboy's are parading like the 360 fanboy's once did. So pinning the blame on one group isn't fair nor is it right.

n4g is nothing more than a gaming media hub, it's the users that make this place a nightmare for gaming journalism. But I must admit I do like seeing some of the nonsense that comes out of some of their mouths.

[Pennywise]

You know, once again my comment was deleted.

My comment was more valid then all of this PS3 fan running the site nonsense. My remarks about our top contributor are self proclaimed and true.

How can all of these guys above me claiming PS3 fans run the site just have a free run at bashing people who don’t praise the 360… even though their arguments hold no water. I come in and speak 100% truth and I am deleted.

All I was saying is… if this site truly is a PS3 fan base run site, why is our top contributor every month someone who hates the PS3.

No harm, no foul. Merry Christmas.

[Sez]

this site is run by sony fans. example: look at whats approved and whats reported. when there's something negative against MS. it's approved. but when the same news is posted about the ps3 or sony. sonyfan race to discredit the article or report it to the failed section. yes N4G was runned by 360 owner back in 07. but before that sonyfan was still bashing the 360 before it released. i remember sonyfan bashing 360 onwers for buying a 360. when it would only be out for 4 years. then MS would make a new system. because of what happened with the xbox.

i also remember sonyfan claiming. when sony release the ps3. "it would sell like hot cakes". "everyone is waiting to buy one". "there's 125 mil ps2 owners waiting to buy one". then sony released the price of the ps3. then it became a diffrent story.
now sonyfan are trying to play the victims. "oh 360 owners started it" actually this has been going on since the ps2 and xbox. it just filtered over into this gen.

i like this site to an extent.because the news being posted is one sided. by one faction to claim ownage when the news favor their system of choice. but as soon as a negative review,post, blog,ect. they go on the defensive and start reporting the article or start disagreeing with people or taking bubbles. because these people don't share their opinion.

[Homicide]

"funny how the mods (odion...i'm sure)...
...deletes oner post when it mentions anything negative about bloodmask. go figure. "

Why not? Not only is it off-topic, but they're flaming another user. This zone is supposed to be a more friendly and civilized place.

BIoodmask submits all kinds of news whether it's pro-PS3, anti-360, etc. But you PS3 fans tend to ignore that and cry foul at him when he submits anti-Sony news.

[Oner]

Wow. Simply Amazing. Nice abuse of power there. So it's okay for post 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.10, 1.18, 1.22, 1.26, 1.42, 1.43 and MANY OTHERS to say/agree that PS3 fans run N4G but when you provide ACTUAL PROOF that is not the case and point out how a certain contributor is confirmed biased your comment gets removed and a bubble gets taken away...

THIS RIGHT HERE IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH N4G...certain staff who abuse their position.

Thanx solidjun5 & Pennywise. But I fear this post will also get the same treatment. Which just proves my point and justifies it even more. Especially when the fair, proper & correct thing to do would be to either remove EVERYONE'S comment about this and/or remove a bubble as well that was similar...

[KimDongHwan]

I think is the same in gametrailers forums, maybe we playstation fans have more to speak of, all those games to look for, etc

http://forums.gametrailers....

[JoelT]

Hot Cosplay girl of the week....still a joke!

[Guitarded]

For the record, this site has NEVER been controlled by 360 fans. Easy to prove if I had time and cared enough. The ONLY difference between now and 2007 is then the PS3 fans didn't have a leg to stand on because the PS3 was an overpriced Bluray player with no games being worth the price tag. I still feel that way today at $300 and only two games I care about, pass. Unfortunately others looked at the possible future value of the PS3 and bought it anyway. I suppose if you like PS3 exclusives and watching movies it was worth it for you. All it did for me was keep the price point above what I am willing to pay.

EDIT: Directed @ 2.1 rohail88. Must have hit reply to #1

[rohail88]

when did i say this site as run by bots? learn to read i told the other bot that he has an account here so why is he calling it crap! and as for ur crticism about the ps3 its nothing more than blind hate, u just hate sony and thats why ur saying that!

[ThatCanadianGuy]

I somewhat agree that N4G is flawed, but, it's not the sites fault.
It's the community.

I always see people moaning about how "stupid" or "flamebait" an article is, yet, THEY are the ones clicking on it, commenting, replying to comments and making it hotter and rise to the top.

Because of that all the junk floats around the main page and the actual news, like you guys said, gets lost.

Every morning when i sign into N4G i just scroll back a few pages and check out the low degree stories.(Usually the most interesting articles)

As for Hiphopgamer, Jealous? You guys just failed hardcore.
I can't think of a single person on this site who's jealous.

I've been on N4G since Hiphopgamer show first started smothering it's name all over it.People aren't jealous, there sick of his flamebait headlines with no substance.

I.E "kILLZONE 3 TO OUTSHINE HALO REACH?" While he only talks on the subject for 3 minutes.He uses ridiculous headlines to get hits and that's why people can't stand him.

[jayblings]

@CanadianGuy

I agree with your first point that the community is flawed but I disagree about HHG.

Most of the community here doesn't like HHG because they don't consider him a real "journalist" and yet he gets to attend all of the big press events and such when they don't.

He's also a prime example of why N4G can work. He went from a nobody to a somebody thanks to this site.

[-Alpha]

That doesn't mean people are "jealous" and even if they are, it is an irrelevant ad hominen.

I've had people tell me HHG is "legit". I'm sorry, but just because he, or anyone else for that matter, attends big press events doesn't make him any more "legit" than it does Gamespot when they had that whole Army of Two scandal with Jeff.

The point is, ThatCanadianGuy brings up a legit and known issue people have with HHG

[ThatCanadianGuy]

True, i guess i can't speak for everybody on the HHG subject.But his headlines are the main reason i can't stand his "articles"

Tho i do respect the fact he does meet some of the industries biggest devs and interviews them.Just the way he gets hits on his site is pretty low..

[JoelT]

all around on this thread. And I agree canadian some article titles can be a bit out there. Although see how we're having a civilized conversation on here, give it about 10 minutes before people jump in here after reading the title and tell us all to eat a bag of d1cks. Just wait and see.

[-Alpha]

Who cares about them? Every site has its trolls. There are Fanboys, there are the minority fanboys, and then are trolls. Everybody hates the trolls on the bottom and I don't think you should worry about someone telling you to eat a bag. If they can't bring anything intellectual to a conversation then I pray that every single person on this site has the common sense to not take that person seriously.

Also, regarding the people that report articles/users with reasons like "lame", that doesn't exactly mean they get taken down. I find that articles that have those kind of comments are obviously looked at by moderators, and I'm sure they don't simply base their moderations on the report history. Rather, the reporting feature is more of a tool to bring awareness to moderators.

[markremo]

@ThatCanadianguy420:

Agree - it's primarily about community, but the site structure also has a hand in what gets to the top too (for example, different category structures, submission forms, and guidelines). Reddit and Digg are essentially the same concept executed with minor variations but it's the community that really defines them... and sparks a healthy competition between them.

Agree - flamebait, cosplay girls, and incendiary posts are N4G's version of old media's "if it bleeds, it leads", using sex to sell, and mudslinging. As a reader you've got to wade through the crap to find what's substantial and meaningful. An article looking at the evolution of quicktime events in games is interesting and useful; constantly voting up every commenter who says Killzone 2 is GOTY is not.

Disagree - Sometimes people are petty and jealous of successful people, no matter what degree of success. I've heard HipHopGamer make a couple real predictions before hearing anyone else talk about length on the topics: the potential of BFBC2 and PSN full game rental/sharing to name 2 off the top of my head.

Good comment despite the otherwise out of place: "You guys just failed hardcore".

[SonySoldierEternaL]

cry me a river 420

[Redempteur]

I agree ... My problem with HHG is that now people are trying bto emulate his work.i'm disapointed when i see epople posting "news" that are just flamebait for hits .
WHen the purpose is not information but fame and hits ..it's wrong .
Sadly someone people with their "blogs" are copying this aspect of HHG .Yesterday i got into an argument with one of them and he didn't even understand why he was wrong .
When some people are bad examples and generate "clones"..this somehow need to stop .

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Haha! I bet you cried enough for all of us when FF13 went multiplat.

"SonySoliderEternal" ; Jesus..i thought i was a fanboy but, you take it to a whole other level..

[Jinxstar]

@ Markremo.

He is bound to get something right. just like one of these days Michael Pachter will get it right... It's gonna happen on occasion when you spout enough nonsense...

The fact that you guys truly think a guy with no credentials, schooling or otherwise is a gaming "journalist" is beyond me. He probably cant even spell his name without an ebonics to english dictionary.

Here is something for you. I went to comic con in San Diego and got to play the GOW3 demo before anyone else(For the most part) and posted my impressions here and how awesome it is. Then I even got to meet up with Dave Jaffe(Not in relation to GOW or anything I just follow his twitter and wanted to get his autograph on my Twisted Metal Black poster). OoOoO Can I be a game journalist and have everyone on N4G wish they were me now?... Seriously... It's not like he's banging Jessica Alba and Megan Fox at the same time. He talks to a bunch of nerds... About nothing... His interviews are lame and his questions suck. His site is a joke and he needs to go away.

@ Alpha

It was Kane and Lynch btw...

[movements]

Fanboys are to blame. Not the owners, and not the entire community. I think N4G is the best thing that has ever happened to "unknown" sites who are not afraid to tell it like it is.

You see, Gamespot and IGN can't do that, why? Deals prevent them from doing it. Folks could get fired just for writing an article that's a tad critical about a certain company.

As for the reporting issue, I think mods should have the ability to delete some reports after they've looked at them and concluded that they're baseless. You have some folks who just don't like some sites and as soon as they're url shows up then it's either flame, lame, fake, blog, or whatever. However the same topic will be examined by another site and it's approved by the same folks who reported the site that they didn't like.

It's not easy to fix the community, but it can, some folks should be totally eliminated from reporting stories after a consecutive string of misdemeanor reports.

[we won]

It's so bad here on N4Gs they have no choice but to favor these conditions. There is nobody left but PS3 fanboys. You never noticed the few 360 fans here are punished 3 times as harsh with bans, bubble loss, restrictions while most PS3 fans do as they wish? Where else can a 360 fan comment a game in the 360 section and get 200 disagrees lol. Hell it's so bad here one of the mods tracks my comments when my comments are pages back and over a day old and deletes them.

[Godmars290]

Honestly, how many blog are suddenly getting mentioned if not headlined on other sites just because they were on N4G first?

[A LIVING LEGEND]

Is the inevitable discussion of gaming and games 'journalism' bad for games 'journalism' ?
Is any discussion about anything relevant to you or me considered bad?
Yes,but it is and remains a necessary outlet for those who fuel the industry-consumers.
Gamers by self appointment yet consumers in as much.Opinion dictates many markets...no?
N4G bad for marketing shoddy games? YES.
As we were.

[blahblah123]

"Gaming Journalism" isn't journalism.

It is part public relations, part advertising. Its like calling People Magazine or TMZ journalism or calling Roger Ebert a journalist. He is a film critic, not a reporter.

Wake up. There is no such thing as gaming journalism. Not one review of Modern Warfare 2 mentioned network lag. A very common occurrence during play. Why? A real journalist would have covered every aspect of the game. nobody did. This is the same for nearly every game out there.

Get over yourselves. Gaming Journalism is as real as Eric Cartman.

[markremo]

@eagle21:

I think you bring up an interesting point but take your hyperbole too far. I agree that over the last 20 years gaming journalism has turned into an outlet for corporations to advertise their games and overall we've seen a drop in sincere, insightful, quality reporting.

As games have become more complex, the information we're given about them has become hermetic and meaningless. Sometimes I get the feeling that game "reviewers" don't play games enough to make valid statements about them or aren't having fun anymore and therefore missing the point of the game altogether.

However, all of the examples you list, despite not being "investigative" are examples of journalism nonetheless.

To your actual example of Modern Warfare 2 having lag: I haven't experienced any more lag playing it than any other game and so, were I to review it I wouldn't "report" lag either.

[reintype]

I guess this so called "game journalist" seems to have forgotten that most of the failures we have here in the industry can be firmly laid at their feet. Yet they are quick to point the accusatory fingers at the fans for their failures, when they themselves were the ones fanning the fire with their sensationalize stories and hidden propaganda.

And let's not forget the Bias and Double Standards that's running rampant in our industry or the ones turning a blind eye to obvious faults because they hide and cower in the name of the hype and the mighty. And when called into question, you get the "Well It's my opinion", "Top 10 reasons why...", "We have different standards...", and other banalities, to excuse themselves of any wrongdoing.

Well if you are going to sit and discuss things that are wrong with gaming industry, maybe we should start with what is wrong with gaming journalism first, you know just saying.

[nix]

gaming journalism has been a farce this gen... baised fanboys writing reviews, talking crap about games, single console, in particular.

fix the darn journalism first!

[eagle21]

that dude Joel (black shirt) is just bitter and sounds more of a douche than "fanboys". :)

Why write a story about twitter being N4G's downfall? N4G may be flawed, but it serves it's purpose well if you also read the stories that aren't just on the front page.

[unrealgamer58]

"all around on this thread. And I agree canadian some article titles can be a bit out there. Although see how we're having a civilized conversation on here, give it about 10 minutes before people jump in here after reading the title and tell us all to eat a bag of d1cks. Just wait and see."

But please name a site where this doesn't happen (granted to a lesser extent)

[AndrewE]

great job on counterpoint dualshockers!

[chrisulloa]

Lol, these guys are terrible. N4G is a crappy site.

[rohail88]

ur on this site arent u? if u dont like it GTFO!

[Dsnyder]

They made some great points like how the top 10 hottest girls always make it to the top page. Seriously, those have nothing to do with gaming and should not be here.

But then they started whining about how their horrible blogs were taken down. Like that one that said twitter will kill N4G (seriously wtf?) and then they hit an epic fail and defended hiphopgamer. He makes all ps3 fans look bad with his fake news and deserves no defending.

[Ninferno]

"This is a joke
"Gaming Journalism" isn't journalism.

It is part public relations, part advertising. Its like calling People Magazine or TMZ journalism or calling Roger Ebert a journalist. He is a film critic, not a reporter.

Wake up. There is no such thing as gaming journalism. Not one review of Modern Warfare 2 mentioned network lag. A very common occurrence during play. Why? A real journalist would have covered every aspect of the game. nobody did. This is the same for nearly every game out there.

Get over yourselves. Gaming Journalism is as real as Eric Cartman."

lol wow someone woke up on the "i dont know what im talking about" side of the bed this morning.

[sashimi]

doesn't matter as i don't accept gaming journalism as any type of journalism since it has gone down hill to nothingness. I mean WTH majority of them always change the standard by which games are judged on every single time that it just means nothing now unlike the good old days.

[Lou Ferrigno]

This site is badass!!

in the words of Sam jackson: " ive had it with these mutha fvckin fake blogs on this mutha fvckin site!!!"

[Budg3tG4m3r]

As long as one side of the coin has more influence over the other, yes it is bad for gaming.

[Odion]

Sigh another post trying to claim unbiased and accurate criticisms of N4G without actually knowing anything.

1. Heat is determined by Unique comments, Unique click, Unique hits to the site, and time. If Story A gets 125 comments, but no one actually clicks the link to the site, its not getting above 200. If Story B gets 125 comments, and say 10k click throughs in 2 hours, it will prob shoot up to 500 degrees really quickly, however if Story C does the same performance but it takes 2 days, its not going to get the same kind of heat. Those numbers aren't accurate, they are made up.

2. He clearly didn't email a Mod/Admin, I'll show him my PM inbox and he can tell me then that we don't listen to every complaint/suggestion or e-mail asking for help. I know for a fact that Cats box is never not blinking red.

3. This is a community driven site, the people not the staff decide what gets approved and what doesn't. Considering that PixelEnemy and DuelShockers are known for tabloid trash like news, I am not surprised your not finding any success.

4. N4G is actually a lot bigger then people think, we're bigger then GamesRadar, Eurogamer, 1up, Kotaku, Joystiq, Destructoid, and a numerous other sites. Gamespot and IGN are under the umbrella of multi-billion dollar corporations I would expect them to be higher then us.

5. People aren't jealous of HHG, its not that hard to get invited to PAX, E3, XO9, yada yada yada. Canadian is right about HHG, he makes either flamebait titles that just annoy people, or he makes really vauge or obvious guesses, like Halo 4 in the works? Then screams that he has inside info when it happens.

[jayblings]

@Odion
Heat: That system that you described is flawed. We are posting a video therefore majority of the readers will just choose to watch the embedded video that N4G forces us to put on there according to your guidelines. Therefore its almost pointless for anyone to embed a video because it won't drive the heat of the story. Take a look at our site, there are no Ads on it, at this point in my sites life I could care less about page views I want people to enjoy the show we have created. Which #s are you referring to when you say they are made up?

Email: When I emailed N4G asking a question I used the "contact us" link provide at the bottom of the site ( http://www.n4g.com/Info/Con... If there is another way to contact you I could not find it, I just figured that was the best way to "contact you." Who are you and who is Cat in relation to this site?

Community: You are correct when you say that this is a community driven site, I never disputed that. I did however question why an article was pulled from the site after it had already been approved. You still have not answered my question. Hopefully you will provide me with insight as to what I did wrong so I can correct it in the future. In regards to you calling us a "tabloid trash" site is your opinion, so the same way you call my site trash I call your site garbage. As any self respecting Gaming News outlet or publisher out there and I'm sure they'd tell you the same thing. Like I said in the video, your site is a great idea but its run terribly. Also who are you to determine what success is and isn't. I am very proud of my website and crew that run it and the fact that we are all doing something we love makes a success to me. I never said your site wasn't successful.

Size: I totally agree that you guys are the biggest site out there. So you think it would be run by a bunch of professionals that don't air out their laundry in the comment section.

HHG: Don't bite the hand that feeds you. He drives a ton of traffic to your site that I'm sure you guys enjoy when the Ad check comes.

Thanks for your time.

[Odion]

1. Believe it or not we are here to serve the users not the site owners, we make it mandatory for you to embed because its easier for the users, we don't get into the politics of hits and page views, its also not our responsibility. The numbers I was referring to were the degrees, comments, hits ect, I just made them up for the example.

2.That page is clearly laid out as a corporate/suggestion box contact list, there is a list of Mods and Admins that is easily available. Cat is the News Admin, and I am a do everything mod.

3. Tabloid trash was bit harsh, but when I watch a video with two people who both don't know how the site works, and both have a problem, it gets annoying to watch. As for why your news post got deleted, I couldn't tell you, I remember the news post kind of, but I go through hundreds of news posts a day and I can't remember who or why your post was deleted. As for the contact sheet http://forums.n4g.com/N4G-S...

4. No HHG hasn't driven a lot of traffic to us, we drive a lot of traffic to him, if someone was so interested in HHG, they wouldn't come through N4G to get to his site, they would just go to his site.

We have a very... volatile community, its frankly a lot like the Blizzard Entertainment community, they will get you if you slip up once, and they will dance on your grave, but these guys are loyal, Saaking may troll, but by god I can count on him to be trolling every single day.

[jayblings]

1. I understand that you are here to serve the users and I understand the reasoning for embedding the video. It is very convenient. However because of the way that the "heat" system is designed it isn't a true representation of how well an article is doing because it doesn't take into account the number of video views. Therefore you are not serving the users/community properly.

2. The contact page looks almost exactly the same as our contact page and that's the page we use when someone wants to contact us. Also I don't see how this link ( http://forums.n4g.com/N4G-S... is so-called "easy" to find. Also you said that Cats mailbox is always full. We'll then don't you think you have a problem then if she is getting so many complaints.

3. I don't care what you call me, that is just a poor reflection on you and your site. The point of our video wasn't to blast N4G, it was point out the problems that it has, ways to fix it, and question how certain things work. Also its only 1 topic out of 5 so its not like its a whole show dedicated to N4G. Here is the news post that got deleted http://www.n4g.com/NewsPend... Again if you don't get back to me or find out way it was pulled its a poor reflection of you and your site. You want to be considered one of the big boys then act like it.

4. Before HHG got big and had his own site people would come here to find him, and I know a lot of people that still do because his videos are usually close to the top every Sunday.

Your fan base is extremely loyal so do them a service, don't rest on the laurels that got you guys to where you are today. Look to improve your site out of respect to them.

[Odion]

1. Our Inbox are full a lot because we have 1.5 million people to help and serve lol. People PM to point out trolls, people PM to ask why something got reported/failed. There are many just day to day reasons why people PM us.

2. Well the rest of the community doesn't have trouble with finding it, so I don't know what to tell you on that front.

3. Yes but the problems you had are for the most part made up, and you indirectly tried to bring up the idea that there was some shadowy system behind the scenes. Ya I remember that one now, that week there was a bunch of news about HHG, how his site sucked, how he sucked, and then it went onto other sites. We purged all of them because it wasn't gaming news and it was causing hostilities.

4. If every person to visited HHG came to us first every time, and then suddenly just stopped it wouldn't effect us.

5. I don't know where your getting this resting on your laurels stuff from, we all work extremely hard on this site, most of us end up putting near full time hours in for no pay, we know of the real problems that exist and they will be fixed.

Hits to the site is again only 1/4 of what effects heat, look at HHG, he embeds his stuff and he gets a ton of heat everytime.

[exnihilonihilfit]

Sorry Mr. Blings but I'm gonna have to agree with Odion on this one. The one thing you might have right is the bit about embedding, but there aren't all that many articles that have videos and those that do tend to get more comments so if its really hot, it should be able to get there based on more reasons than just that it was played here instead of followed through. I am not either one of you so I don't have a vested interest in this, I'm an actual gamer. I put the G in this site, you put the N and Odion makes up the 4. The problem with N4G is not the G or the 4, it's the N. The problem with gaming journalism is gaming journalism. You suck, IGN sucks, gamespot sucks, game trailers sucks, and all the xbox/ps3 sites suck. I wish to God that I could get my gaming news some other way. Fortunately, since most gaming sites represent radical extremes they tend to balance each other out when you average their review scores together so Metacritic tends to give a pretty fair estimate.

Your site is crap and so is HHG. HHG never gives anyone any information, he just generates wild speculation. In fact, every time I see an HHG title it just pisses me off because it says something that I think is really awesome, then it follows up with a question mark, and then the video is this idiot rambling in a barely understandable diction about some totally unfounded idea he pulled out of his ass. The truest and most informative thing I ever saw from HHG was when he had N'Gai Croal on to stand there speechless from the footage of GOW3, and that was only because N'Gai was actually speechless and didn't say anything. His best article was an interview with someone who he didn't ask a real question of and who didn't say anything, I just enjoyed the moments of silence when HHG wasn't yelling, and someone other than him who I actually respect was reacting to a genuine experience.

[exnihilonihilfit]

I just wanted to note that you guys need to loosen up the word restriction, c*ck means male bird, and when I tried to use it in the perfectly PC word c*ckamamie I was warned. What about poppyc*ck? I'm surprised we can get away with the word assassinate, it's got ass in it twice. Can I even write the word peac*ck?

[Dusty]

I just want to make clear that the views presented by our mods in the news comments are those of the individual moderators and do not necessarily represent the views of N4G as an organization.

We are well aware of the many problems that both members and bloggers bring up about N4G, and that we do listen to feedback. Lots of work has been done behind the scenes over the last 12 months to improve N4G, improvements which we plan to roll out very soon.

Dusty

[FanboyAttack]

Flawed yes, bad for gaming journalism no way.

[Justin_bristoe]

this was just them venting,they can't stand that these forums are liket he jungle and the bull the try and post wont be tolerated.i'm sure if they post something worthy it wont get flamed as bad.of course it's a forum where opinions are given without mercy so if you guys are sensitive go somewhere that boots ppl that wanna tell u how useless your words are to gaming.cos play of the week isnt that bad,i bet 500 you look at them whenever u see them. these guys FAIL.

all sites taking payola to under hand the great year sony had FAIL

IF ya mad sony proved to be an AAA machine and topples the rest in exclusive gaming FAIL

wanted mw2 or ac2 to beat uc2 MEGA FAIL

[Odion]

Good points, except that Uncharted only beats AC2 and MW2 by like 4 points on Metacritic and both games have outsold UC2.

But I am just being mean on purpose!

Merry Christmas!

[exnihilonihilfit]

I just spent a bunch of time defending you against this other chump, then you go and say some crap that proves his point. Only 4 points? The last 10 points on a hundred point scale are what matters most, especially in gaming where everything that isn't pure crap gets at least an 8. Think about it like this, points 1 through 89 are a measure of how good a game is, points 90 through 100 are measures of how great a game is. Those last four points represent orders of magnitude, whereas all the lower points are simply proportional in the typical arithmetic sense.

[mrmikew2018]

No it's not N4G, it's the "so-called" journalist that post their articles on here. A lot journalism nowadays can't grasp the fact that personal opinions about a specific console is not needed in their article.

[saimcheeda]

the community sucks, u find people arguing in every article Ps fans troll on xbox pages, xbox on ps pages...and its always the same thing..."ur butthurt" "cry moar" "b-b-but" for once id like to see people talking peacefully and keeping their differences aside thats why i switched to the gamer zone but there are trolls even on this side...its up to the mods to ban someone as soon as he trolls, dont keep bubbles just ban a person we hes trolling!

[Feral Gamer]

N4G has too many crappy articles from startup sites which basically recycle a lot of news and give the writer's opinions. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't care what a writer's opinion of Uncharted 2 is. I don't care what 10 things they want to see in Gears of War 3.

[Droid Control]

But surely, if they were telling the truth. why has this video been approved?

Doesn't it undermine everything they've just said?

Was was that the plan?

Anyway, bottom line, i don't care. I really don't. If a better web site comes along, i'll go there, if not, i'll stay here. What else is there to do?

[Nicaragua]

Personally I think this site is great, sure 50% of what gets posted is garbage but that cant really be helped due to the nature of the site. What I enjoy is that the crap will get called out as crap but the articles worth discussing will be discussed properly, even stuff which might come from some amateur blog can result in some really interesting discussions or arguments and more often than not the N4G comments will be much more interesting than the source.

You’ll always get the extreme fanboys frothing sh1te but you’ll get idiots in anything you do, even today trying to do some shopping ive got some illogical religious prat on the high street shouting his head off about the coming apocalypse – I just ignore them while enjoying everything that’s good about the site.

[CARRIERHASARRIVED]

N4G is a great place to get news. Not ALL news, but there's still enough coming in from contributors that make it worth checking out every day. I used to look to G4tv.com and Kotaku, but I frequent there much, much less. I don't like some their writers/editors. G4 has a rabid bunch on there that seem to only want to argue about consoles and stuff (most of them sound like kids), and Kotaku's readers are great, but Brian Ashcraft and Luke Plunkett kind of ruin it for me. Can't stand their stuff.

I really like the fact that I can find all kinds of news and even "non-news" articles on here, and I think it's that mix that keeps me coming back here. It's definitely a portal to smaller sites, and I like venturing to unknown gaming news websites to poke around.

As far as the PS3 fanboys running the place goes, I don't know how or why that would be. My only suggestion to them is to go play some damn games, and leave the wars to the console manufacturers. This site is great at times, but does allow a few too many opinionated articles through. Too much of this turns the site into essentially a "dump" for articles that list the top "whatevers" or "why this sucked" or "why company A is better than B".

As for HHG, I've been following him for a long time now, and watching him play this site like a fiddle cracks me up every time he posts on here. Although his titles ARE WITHOUT A DOUBT designed to create traffic, his news is usually legit, and he's basically giving everyone on here what they want-- something to b!tch and complain about, someone/something to hate on, or to just simply draw attention to him.

[True_Religion]

True Fanoboyism!

[Baka-akaB]

affecting game journalism ?
Game journalism doesnt even exist yet , and might have been killed before it's birth .

There are a few bright spots in the industrie once everywhile , but journalism ? no no .

"You journalist" guys dont actually dont investigate a damn thing , you're spoon fed trailers and other content ...

You could post some news about gaming and games from all over the world , like japan , russia , china , or EU et usa even , but no you'd rather spend that time with important journalism such as "Is the ps3/360/saturn/dreamcast/jagua r/3do/mega cd/nintendo 64 really dead/worth it ?" , and "omg did you know that ashton kutchner play games ?"

You accept bribes and luxury trip to europe or whatever from publishers , so you could only have positive previews about games .

Remember assassin creed 1 ? up to th last month prior it's release and after many many many extensive previews and sessions with it , you had nothing but praise about the game , and Jade raymond's breast .

Then suddenly comes release day , you all magically remember , or realize , that gee assassin creed is repetitive and not that great !!

When 1 on 1 with a game publisher or developer , you becomes big softie marshmallows with only relatively positive questions , at least no uncomfortable ones .

Not to mention that you only follow trends and the wind , sometimes some you created yourself .

Dnd the reviews ahh the review ... often rather than actually talk about a game , and give important details , you'd be babblering about the dev's game history or some other one to compare to .

You'll never go against big game franchises in reviews , unless the flaws are too big and numerous to contain .

Instead you'll pour your frustration onto more obscure titles . After all who will notice you didnt even play the game , and post erroneous facts about it eh ? Only fans of said game , so who cares!!!

The reason "journalists" are scared of blogs and sites such as N4G , is that everyone can be his own lousy , biased and self serving journalist , without paying them a dime .

[divideby0]

last I knew...N4G authors few articles....just sums many from the net..
blogs should be banned unless from the biggies...not crying fanboyz

[pippoppow]

People love pointing the finger at others instead of looking at oneself. So many biased and utter nonsensical articles being posted do more to hamper gaming journalism than anyone else.

The attack articles from major sites are a real embarrassment. Some sites try to hide by stating that the article does not represent their site but it really does. How many times have gamers reading or watching gaming news and pointed out erroneous information or information completely missing?!

They need to clean up their act and start acting more like professionals and less like your run of the mill fanboy poster.

[gumgum99]

maybe...

[napoleon_ist]

voilà

[Aleusia]

Is worse than Kotaku, Joystiq, and Destructoid, those are the worst gaming sites out there.

[Odreus]

is bad for gaming, but N4G is full of haters, I always wonder how some of them can play videogames, if they comment on every single article and spread their selfishness and blind hate ...

[Baka-akaB]

guess what it's the internet ...
Look at comment of kotaku , vg274 or any other place and it's as bad if not worse .

Fan of comics ? Go to newsarama and tell me if you even fell they like any comics at all released those past 30 years ...

Fan of anime or manga ? Go to 2ch or 4chan and tell me if you wont loose your sanity ... they even created a stupid word so they could hate anime fans like themselves .

All in all n4g is a "decent" place , with only the cycling back and forth between loving the 360/hating it ... hating the ps3/loving it . Or right now the lack of love for jrpg and massive (and sometimes blindly) applaud for wrpgs .

[bjornbear]

bad community members that approve crap like HHG and bad journalism / blogs of gamers that think they know more than other, THAT is ruining journalism

[Cajun Chicken]

I love N4G, but I wish people would stop this kind of 'stock market' attitude in articles. Basically I want to know what good games will come out, on what platforms, when they're coming out and what developers made them. I also like news about future technology and rumours, such of the stuff from Superannunation these days.
Also everyone thinks, if they can play games, therefore they can be a journalist and report reports from another report based on another report, it gets very tiring, there's a reason for N4G user blogs and reviews.

And yes, I know the PS3 has a lot of exclusives, and believe me, I'm a HUGE fan of the PS3, but for crying out loud, gaming journalism, stop telling me over and over again.

[EvilBlackCat]

COMMENT FROM: Alpha-Male22
1.5 - @PirateTom
Can you give me some evidence of the site being run by MS fanboys? I simply can't take your perception as the truth since you could be wrong.

Even if it were true, why would it be pointless? I'd rather bring the issue up rather than accept it. You find it a problem that MS fanboys used to overrule N4G right? So why should it not be the same today (assuming you are stating the truth)?

I see no point in telling me not to complain about it since the whole purpose of this article is to look at the issues of N4G.

Edit: @Xiphos

I am willing to take Tom's word for it, but let's stop thinking about the past and try to relate back to the topic. ANY fanboy group, or any overruling majority controlling "news" is pure censorship and makes for a flawed and unjust system.

I don't care if it's 360 fans back in the day or the PS3 fans of today-- News should NOT ever be controlled by a ruling majority like that.

And it's not just the news. I also find the "Agree/Disagree" system to reinforce that you can't say anything bad about something because then you have a boatload of spammers giving you "disagrees" instead of actually attempting to have an intellectual argumentation.

Alpha-Male22 FOR N4G PRESIDENCY 2010!!!!!

N4G iz fncking officially dead!

[DaTruth]

The 360 supporters are 3 times more likely to break the rules and get banned or to make a personal attack on another member.

Put up a good point in a sales article and some 360 fanboy will unleash a torrent of obscenities in the thread or over PM!

This was a reply; Don't know how it got here!

[divideby0]

you are not forced to read or comment on any article...so I dont even know why a stupid article/vid like this means jack

those authoring the articles, just are stupid since they are on the net and there is a history of the stupid authors with their lame articles..

[Justin_bristoe]

come on most of you guys are acting like little girls.these forums are ment for hard opinion,yeah we have trolls but most of the comments are real opinions.just because they hurt you doesnt mean it's bad.now the 360 guys flame like hell on earth but mostly ps3 guys just have opinions hurtful to them because we play so much further beyond.see what i just said? that's considered fanboy even though its true when u look at hardware plus software free online and everything xbox has except "cross game chat"which we're not really dying to have more than the media tries to make the world think

oh yeah these guys still FAIL.biggest cry babies on the net.n4g is the sharks den get use to it.if u make good points glory is your through your peers and the silence or quick panic replies from trolls

[Legionaire2005]

So many biases and fanboyism. I find it hard to get an article approved, because every minute someone is claiming my articles to be duplicate.I think winning $500 dollars for getting the most degree rating from articles is a lie, and the same people end up winning. I will be more than happy to watch this video. Nuff said.

[stuntman_mike]

ive been coming to this site more or less from the start and if it wasnt for N4G i wouldnt know about most of these sites and games, also i think N4G can be hilarious especially when a fan war starts up and the crap starts flying you wont find any better.

alot of you guys complaining about this site run by ps3 fanboys are hippocrites it was exactly the opposite when i first came on this site ps3 fans complaining about it being run by 360 fans, so wipe those tears and just enjoy it.

like the saying goes if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
come back POG, TheMart and all you others guys cause this sites just full of whining children.

[RBdrift]

these a$$bags are just pist because "cosplay of the week" is getting more hits then there sites. Anyways whats the problem with tits?

[Ninferno]

500 dollars? i never heard of that... hmm...

[IWentBrokeForGaming]

I don't care which console you own, or what your fav. games are, etc..

The fact what I'd like to talk and discuss about is limited to a s#!tty bubble system that is there so fanboys can pop you down and shun your personal opinions out, is f**ked up. The ignore feature is enough compensation for me, but with that... bubbles are unnessicary. Baffles my mind how tons of biased people on this site roll out with tons of bubbles, for trash talking. And you get neutral/multiconsole owners like myself willing to discuss topics that went from 6 bubbles down to 4. 1 after losing a bubble after posting a quote just stating I personally didn't like Killzone 2.

This site IS good for the fact I don't have to search multiple sites to get my gaming news, cause they all are compiled here daily. But I feel it's conducted very s#!tty.

I've seen just as many @$$holes on this site as many of the ones you try to talk religion and politics with. Feels lose lose. When gaming isn't even as personal as either of the other 2. I just don't see how fanboyism feels nessicary/important to people. Makes them look childish, Im 25 and wonder how many people in my own age bracket look like children with their fanboyism quotes on here!

[AliTheBrit19]

N4G is a joke

Only the controversial and fanboy flame articles get any attention.

[abc1233]

says a well-known xbox fanboy

[Gr81]

Is bad for gaming journalism, lol.

[xcox]

and all the gaming sites who've been polishing MS's c0ck
that's the real threat to games journalism

[Sez]

and sites like gamepro,1up,EGM,ect have been riding sony c@ck since the begining. so whats your point.

[xcox]

what?

you sound like bill o'reilly whining about liberal bias in the media when confronted with murdoch's right wing c0ck polishing affair world wide

you fail: 90% of the gaming media has its nose deep up MS's ass and that's the only way they got away with a 60% failure rate

nice try

[Tricksy]

I am new to the site and I think that it is the perfect medium for Game News. The only reason these "journalists" were able to complain about the site is because the site has a system in place where that could be considered news.

The users decide what the news that matters to them is. It often reflects what is popular and why shouldn't it(for instance the console war is popular). Why should people be told what to read or watch. That is what Fox and CNN thinks should happen. Well if Fox or CNN says anything we think is worth listening to or watching, it will show up here.

And that is great. That is another example of the internet promoting and incorporating personal freedom and true democracy into an environment where it has been lacking.

N4G ftw, fanboyz,cosplay girls, lame d-bag "journalists" and all !

[pimpmaster]

hiphop gamer sucks and its his own fault everyone hates him, i remember so many flaimbait hedlines hes put over time that just annoyed everyone , he really did just piss of all the cmmunity to the point where now anything related with HHG or from there just gets reported instantly. and to top that off he hijacked the system and has like 5 goons to approve the stories for him. not only does nobody like him but he takes advantage of the 10 aproves system by telling people he knows to aprove it. thats why hhg is hated