During Topic#4 of Counterpoint, Joel Taveras and Jay Michaels stop playing around and approach the topic of N4G with honest, unbiased introspection and attempt to answer what it means for the little guys (and games journalism in general).
Now this is an interesting topic. Watching now.
I've always said it before, the answer is no, not really. The flaw is in the fact that articles and news that are approved are approved because a ruling majority dictates what should be approved and what shouldn't. This basically results in censorship. I've always found that this site has always been made up largely by Sony fans, and though I've come across some rational ones, there are numerous amounts who have been given the authority to approve just because they pass a "test". For example, look at Gamespot and its awards. Not once have I seen an article saying "Gamespot's 2009 Awards" Instead I see "Gamespot gives RPG to Demons Souls" "Gamespot gives best action game to Uncharted 2" "Gamespot gives best FPS to Killzone 2" People cherry pick the news, glorify it, and it gets approved. Oh, and let's not forget the random blogs that get approved. They aren't judged upon the academic standard of how well a blog is written, or even if the blog is stating anything important, but if it's approving something the majority like, it gets approved. The system is completely illogical. Like I said, the site is run mostly by Sony fans, and it's not necessarily a bad thing, but some are irresponsible and truth be told, it ruins the site. Being a Sony fan is not the problem as I'm a Sony fan too, but the problem is rooted in the approval system and who controls what "news" is. @JoelT, doing that right now, decided to post my comment first ;) Edit: Regarding HHG, ironically enough the community seems to be against him because they find him to be a joke. And I'm not sure what the foundational history is that makes them hate HHG, but he notoriously known for being "a joke". I personally do not like HHG because he seems very biased and one sided, but recently I have decided to put down my own bias I have created and look at him a little more seriously. I dislike his N4G titles mostly which always seem a little inflammatory and extremely fanboyish for the PS3, but again, I'm planning on reading into HHG a little more before hating on him like I usually do. I could be bias of HHG even though I feel he is bias for all I know, which wouldn't be a logically sound thing to do.
I do agree with you but watch the clip as we discuss that there's a lot more to it than that.
@alpha You are right that the site does seem to favor Sony over Microsoft but like Joel says there are a lot of other factors that contribute to the "news" that is posted. I like the idea of N4G and it obviously is a great place to go to find the little nuggets of gaming journalism or news you might have missed but the approval and submission process needs an overhaul.
Aplha, I've no idea how long you've been posting on this site, but consider that around a year and a half ago this place was run by Microsoft fanboys should give you an indication of how pointless complaining about it is anyway.
Can you give me some evidence of the site being run by MS fanboys? I simply can't take your perception as the truth since you could be wrong. Even if it were true, why would it be pointless? I'd rather bring the issue up rather than accept it. You find it a problem that MS fanboys used to overrule N4G right? So why should it not be the same today (assuming you are stating the truth)? I see no point in telling me not to complain about it since the whole purpose of this article is to look at the issues of N4G. Edit: @Xiphos I am willing to take Tom's word for it, but let's stop thinking about the past and try to relate back to the topic. ANY fanboy group, or any overruling majority controlling "news" is pure censorship and makes for a flawed and unjust system. I don't care if it's 360 fans back in the day or the PS3 fans of today-- News should NOT ever be controlled by a ruling majority like that. And it's not just the news. I also find the "Agree/Disagree" system to reinforce that you can't say anything bad about something because then you have a boatload of spammers giving you "disagrees" instead of actually attempting to have an intellectual argumentation.
Thom's right about this site being a 360 fanboy haven back in the day. When I signed up in 2007 it was a death sentence to say anything positive about Sony and the PS3. It was ridiculous. The tables have turned today, with Sony having the larger fanbase here, but it really pales in comparison to the army of 360 fankids from back then. That's why I always laugh when new people say this is a Sony site. They have no idea. I agree that fanboys shouldn't have any right to approve/submit stories. It clogs the site up with nonsense. The problem is that the N4G overlords don't see it that way, and I've never seen people get their approval/submission privileges removed, even if they REALLY deserved it. Hell, Bloodmask (N4G's long-standing #1 contributor) used to be one of the worst offenders of fanboyism at this site, and you can still see traces of it in many of his submissions. I guess they figure all traffic is good traffic. HHG is a great example of how N4G fails. You can tell that a good chunk of his "news" could have literally been pieced together by yanking words out of a hat, and have absolutely no basis in reality. Despite that, his stories keep getting jammed through thanks to the same handful of people who approve for him, and they still reach 1000 degrees consistently. It is absolutely mind-boggling how the staff here has allowed him to crap all over the site for this long. He's been doing it for so long, that there's a good-sized group of people who actually defend him now, no matter how totally made-up his stories are. Again, it's gotta be chocked up to "all traffic is good traffic". People arguing over terrible articles create heat, so they really have no incentive to stop it.
N4G is not that big of a site. Compared to bigger sites such as IGN and Gamespot, N4G is still small so I doubt it has any impact on game journalism (other than those small blogs made just for N4G). That's why I like this site. The rules are much less strict and there's less people. You look at IGN or Joystiq and they've got hundreds and sometimes thousands of comments. That's very rare here.
Who cares if it is, small games journalism never had credibility, and the larger sites are driven by ad revenue, and the reviews cannot be trusted for suspicion of money changing hands, gaming journalism needs a standard before it can even earn the title of journalism, and in all likelihood, the majority of 'gaming journalists' have no formal qualifications and are not journalists at all, sit back and enjoy the insane uninformed rants and childish blogs that pass for news, because that's all we're ever going to get, here or anywhere else. Just look at Adam Sessler, a whiny teenager in a mans body.
I don't know why people still cry about N4G... Here is the fact, if it weren't for N4G, half of the sites you guys run wouldn't even be known by now and we would only have the IGNs, Gamespots and Gametrailers opinion in our head... You wrote an article which rose up to 400 Degree and was taken out big deal, you at least got those hits that you wouldn't get if you didn't put the article there on N4G in the first place. Ya N4Gs not fair and there are people who will put your article down in the pending section, but if you are smart enough to make a video about it, then you must be smart enough to know the TACTICs of getting your article up on the front page. I ain't advocating the sh!t, but look at HHG, his article has NEVER spent more than 5 min in the pending section.. Why??? Cause the fans following him approve his article and he himself uses multiple accounts.... Is it fair HELL NO, but at least he has the brains to get the article in here and it ALWAYS reaches more than 500 Degree.... And @ALPHA... Just look at the bottom of any N4G page, and press the pages at the very end and go into any article and see how many PS3 and 360 fanboys were there.... The situation was even worse than it is now, but the roles were reversed.
The news on this site has nothing to do with information sharing. PS3 fans have taken over this site long ago and have complete control of this site. For the most part fanboys use this site for their agenda's and post news in *Gatcha moments* and to bash or praise, there simply isn't any other reason they post here 90% of the time. So many PS3 fans post here they have abused their power. They have driven all the other fans of other consoles away and what is left are PS3 fan mods. As for news, what gets approved or doesn't get approved, depends on what the PS3 fans allow or what they can't get blocked. Most the news here are from blogs selected because the majority likes what the blog is saying. I'm surprised people are still afraid to say the PS3 fanboys are the problem-flat out vs half hearted ways of saying *the guys on N4G* or *the guys that report all the time* No other place on the web can you get hundreds of PS3 fans in 360 articles and no 360 fans in PS3 articles. @Alpha-Male22 #1.5 It's because there are a few 360 fans at any given time and they prefer none. So they come up with that BS.
Even if this site is run by fanboys, isn't it still ultimately up to the mods (and the fanboy inside) to decide what article hits the top and how many degrees? There are some articles I've seen here on n4g whether they be for or against one company/game, and there'd be tons of comments in it but barely hitting pass 200 degrees. While other articles with only 15 or so comments over an entire day soar pass 580 degrees and hit the top page. I'd say, most of the articles submitted to N4G are inconsistent, but I do feel that [and one can make by observation] N4G seems to enjoy its own daily traffic by regularly placing flamebait articles to the top with the highest degrees. Some articles (non-flamebait) are well deserved and up there, while others more obvious become the highlight of the day and also probably drives the most pageviews. Anyway, going back to the top, I am under the impression that mods are the ones that determine how many degrees an article gets. So if that's the case, isn't N4G really run by the mods and not by the article contributors? I think it's crazy for people to call out one side "controls" a site. Gamersyde for example, I've read them since long ago when they were Xboxyde and covered tons of 360 related material. It was only later on when they merged with their smaller sister site PS3syde and became Gamersyde. I thought it was insane when they released a GT prologue video, said it looked great, and then people were saying the editors at Gamersyde were ps3 fanboys! Gamersyde we're talking about here! Once a big xbox 360 video site with a really pathetic ps3 site merged-into-one and then being called a ps3 fanboy! Absurd!
Has become a site that I only turn to for news that mainly concerns the ps3. It's not to say that there isn't any 360 news, cause there's a lot, but it only refers to big hitters. This includes Halo and Gears, and the other famous franchises. Obviously, news becomes dictated by the majority, but that's just a small problem. The real problem is having a voice. Say something bad about Sony, even if it's constructive, and you could lose your bubbles in a few days notice. The people who are one sided, Sony, have too much power. We lost our sense of what being a gamer means, and as a result, this site has become a battleground for console preferability , not games themselves.
how did ur bubble went down to 7 bubbles pirate thom u had like 10
think games journalism as a whole is bad for gaming: - spend too much time provoking gamers - corrupt - don't complete games for their reviews - plagiarise - often uneducated - in a professional manner.. i.e. career qualifications problem is games journalism is an underpaid and easily corrupted profession dominated by fanboys or people with fanboy provoking mentality.. recipe for screwing over gamers because of their dodgy reviews..
I remember those days like it was yesterday, it seems like no one remembers it was just as bad the other way around when N4G first started. But then the tide slowly changed... http://www.n4g.com/NewsCom-... http://www.n4g.com/NewsCom-...
@Joel, I found the posted videos to be insightful and interesting. I may not agree with everything said, but it's presented in an intelligent debate and conversation about a given issue, and for that I applaud you guys. Now, as far as the bulk of the main topic of discussion is concerned, I'd have to agree with Alpha's initial response. No need to rehash his points as I believe he aptly covered them. The one thing I did want to go into was the part on HHG. I'm new to this site, let alone HHG so I may not be the best judge of his overall show, however, after watching it twice...I know it's not for me. A lot of that has to do with his "style". It may be cool for some, entertaining even, but for me, it's annoying and unprofessional. For example, the first show I saw of his was with N'Gai and I couldn't believe what I was watching. The PS3 rap thing was a turn off as well as it came off as unprofessional as well. It's one thing to write about or present news in the form of a review or an opinion piece. It's another to present it from more of a hard news perspective and I think many people can't distinguish or know the difference. Part of the problem is that many game "journalists" don't actually have any journalistic training. I think it would do many a reporter well to pick up a copy of Harrower's "Inside Reporting" and learn the difference. Hopefully when I'm done with my classes, I can help bring something to the table. I don't mean that offensively at all, I just feel that rather than complain about it I should do something about it. And so, I am. At any rate, cool videos.
N4G is full of Wii fans and they troll 360 articles, out numbering the 360 fans by 6 to 1 always bashing the 360 and bring up Zelda and Mario. End/Sarcasm It offends you because it hit home for you. This is a prime example of what I'm talking about. I explain what is going on and you are getting all emotional about it. Blaming game journalism for N4Gs problems is the biggest crock of Sh8T excuse I have ever seen. The problem are the people in control abusing their power for their agenda or people trying to get points for their stories by "choosing" rubbish news. This is the wrong place to make friends so how you feel about me is not important. You hate me because you tired to blame the media for N4G meltdown on journalism in your first post, trying to deflect the reason and it bothered you because it hit home with you lol. Just hit duplicate story on me. EDIT @whothedog Yes the so called "victim" or victims can be found in swarms, in the PS3 section(sarcasm). Are you sure you're not confusing 360 fans giving their opinions in 360 articles after you PS3 have tracked and entered the 360 articles? EDIT @Alpha-Male22 The history is like this. N4G was split up in sister sites. 1) PS3 fan over to the 360 sister site to bash the 360 because it launched first. 2)360 fans got revenge on the PS3 sister site after repeated attacks. 3)N4G joined all sister sites and all was good for a short while. 4)PS3 fans attacked PS3 so much 360 fans wanted revenge and they bashed PS3 issues early on. 5)PS3 fans thinned out and the site was mostly 360 fans for about a year. 6)Blu-ray won and PS3 fans got bold. 7)PS3 fans started working the system and took control 8)PS3 fans took over and drove everybody from the site except PS3 fans.
pixelenemy is a troll site dont
dont click on it
N4g is the best.
Just check the forums, the PS3 forums are almost all at least 3 times bigger than the 360 forums...to think that this site isnt owned by Sony fans is naive. http://forums.n4g.com/defau... Just an example: 11 000 topics and 220 000 posts in the PS3 forum 3400 topics and 58 000 posts in the 360 forum... Kind of says it all, and also explains all the disagrees you get for saying anything even slightly not pro-PS3
Yep, I joined N4G when it was the other way around. I would say there are more PS3 fans now but I don't think its that bad, I still see articles that totally are flamebait for PS3 people to get upset at, and I don't think PS3 fanboys would approve it so I know there are 360 ones still out there @dchalfont Got to love when fanboys play the victims
have to agree N4G is full of haters
When I first joined this site it was lined up with 360 fanboys and the PS3 was getting ripped to shreds. Every PS3 exclusive was called a flop, multiplatform games were being ridiculed, PSN was getting torched. It was so ridiculous that it became hilarious in a way. But now that the shoe is on the other foot and the PS3 has become the alpha console for many, the PS3 fanboys are returning the favor. I try to be a real gamer and not support it, but it is what it is.
i would have to agree with (Cold 2000) but i think what would help the system a whole lot better is if there wasn't any fanbase controlling ANY of the news what so ever. also take out the bubble and the disagreeing/agreeing system, i know at least 30 gaming sites that don't use it and maintain a whole completely friendly appearance. being how this site is, it's actually contributing to fanboys....which is very hypocritical to the term "gamers" used in News 4 Gamers. there's no point in using the word if the site ends up being controlled by a specific fanbase, gamers alike should be able to see what they wish and to speak their opinions on their favorite titles or subjects.
Whats this? First it was the X360 fanboys running the show and suddenly people are plaming on the Ps3 fanboys. Imo this kind of blaming is just plain retarted, as its common sense that the system thats "hottest" at the time is getting more posts. SCE has really boosted their amount on first party exclusives in few years, dropped the price and done all kinds of other things to improve their image and are currently enjoying their "justified/unjustified&qu ot; goty rewards. Its no wonder they are getting nice amount of good publicity among bad publicity. Maybe the "X360 fanboys" are too close minded to realize that Microsoft starting to fall behind sony with their games and services and blame N4G community for that. :rolleyes and to the topic Imo N4G and sites similar to that only improve the accesability of news and reviews. There are many pretty good sites/blogs/etc that I had never even known about before reading n4g news. Although there are some problems with the "approving" system as there's quite much **** still being posted and approved.
Hey "we won"... "The history is like this. N4G was split up in sister sites. 1) PS3 fan over to the 360 sister site to bash the 360 because it launched first. 2)360 fans got revenge on the PS3 sister site after repeated attacks. 3)N4G joined all sister sites and all was good for a short while. 4)PS3 fans attacked PS3 so much 360 fans wanted revenge and they bashed PS3 issues early on. 5)PS3 fans thinned out and the site was mostly 360 fans for about a year. 6)Blu-ray won and PS3 fans got bold. 7)PS3 fans started working the system and took control 8)PS3 fans took over and drove everybody from the site except PS3 fans. " You learned all that in ten days? You really hid the fact you're using a duplicate account well. Just for the record dchalfont's a PC gamer. Well, I for one would like to congratulate you. You squeezed an amazing amount of fail into just one comment section. Nice work. On topic - The site is not to blame for the state of the user base and the nature of the site hands power to the user base after all. It's the users that make the site good, bad or indifferent.
i've realised that there are more "level-headed" gamers here than the whiny ones who wants MW2 or DA:O to win. we do have whiny ones here but thanks to the dispersed numbers, their voice gets lost here. i, love this site because i can't go to every site just to check on games. N4G gives me a spectrum of views which really helps me pick up a game or decide which site is biased or not. as for N4G being a pro-PS3 site, one should have been here around 2007-08. "PS3 doomed" "ps3 has no games" were the only articles that used to here. i'm happy that the PS3 isn't what it was when it came out and the proof is 2008-09. i feel PS3 has given me enough of great times. in the last two years i've picked up 20 games and 95% of them are PS3 exclusives. PS3 exclusives games i think are way above the multi-plat games in terms of graphics and quality. i don't like 360 for it's hardware problems plus the only game i want from 360s exclusive library is GeOW series. it looks fun. 2010 is going to be a great year again. at least for me. Heavy Rain and GOW3 in the first quarter. "WOW!" as for the topic, i don't think N4G is bad for Journalism but the question is - "what games journalism?" gaming journalism sucks big time this gen.
I'm not here for too long, only 4 months , but a I made a little of research for you: http://forums.n4g.com/the-h... http://forums.n4g.com/tm.as... Just Read lol
I'm not sure why you guys are blaming the sony fanbase for approving all of the BS articles around because most of the fanboy articles that are approved are "SONY IS DOOMED" articles or MS figureheads speaking out against the PS3...I don't think it's the Sony camp approving such articles. Please get back to me if you want to refute my claim.
There used to be 360 fanboys like Mart, Jason and Murder. Threads used to be pretty interesting back then, as those guys made interesting / funny arguments. But now, I must agree that now that sony is owning, most of the people are pro ps3. I'd like some balance between both sides every once in a while you know...
"I'd like some balance between both sides every once in a while you know... " You can count on good ol Jason 360 to defend anything 360 related regardless of how baseless it is, and spin anything positive PS3.
The answer is absolutely no.What I like about this website is that I have the power to Let User [email protected] User Up or [email protected] unlike other major gaming websites like Gamespot or IGN.Take Kotaku's 2009 Disappointments for example,if I'm one of their website users who supported Ps3 which are absolute minority in that site,I don't have any voice unlike in here I can report those article as Lame or something else.From one point of view,one can say the majority of users(in N4G,at this moment,the Ps3 supporters) have too much power.From different point of view,this is totally better than having some fanboy article writers write some Lame articles and get away with it. In conclusion,the way I see it,the one complaining at N4G are the minority supporters of a certain system,whether they are journalists or gamers,and the way I see it,it is no different than any other gaming sites.Who know somedays maybe Xbox supporters might turn the table at N4G and when that time comes,will any of these "Neutral Game Journalist" come to Ps3 supporters aid?
Most of the time anymore I just ignore anything that says "Top 5" or "Top 10" because it IS NOT NEWS! It's an opinion on something that is normally not the same as 95% of others simply to drive up hits. Whenever I see a HHG article I report it. Why? Simply put all I have ever seen from him is insanely ridiculous speculation. I could write an article saying "Zelda coming to the PS3" and you know what would happen? Nothing. It would get shot down and smashed and I would be ripped a new one by everyone. However if HHG does it his site lackeys approve it and he somehow gets a free pass time and time again. Also as far as the gaming community goes. I don't want him in anyway representing the "Fans" I could care less if he has an interview with Michael Pachter or Reggie Fils... I really have no ambition to ever "hang out" with these guys... I don't want to be in anyway associated with "Hip hip" or "Gangsta" in anyway. It's a cop out and... "Lame" As far as news worthy articles goes.... This is a "News" site. What sells in any form of news medium "Sex, Death and Violence" On N4G it's "Cosplay/nude what not", "Brittnay Murphy secretly voiced video games" or "13 Year old stabs sister for beating him in Halo" as well as "Who won what" and "X console is better then Y because a no name blogger has a list of 10 reasons" @ Alpha male How long have you been on this site because 2 years ago it was completely flipped. There were very few PS3 fans and a huge 360 following. Which is still present hence my bubs dropping from 10 to 7. I feel they are just less vocal then they used to be and more "Bubble stealing"... if that makes sense... I think I have stalkers... Back on topic though. It doesn't matter. I mean... If this were my discussion I would have discussed it from a "posters" or "Commentors" point of view but the people arguing have a totally different perspective due to this being their "Sites" and "Blogs" and otherwise... Their bread and butter comes from this and thats fine but 99% of the stuff these "Smaller sites" post is not in anyway news... It's speculation, Top 10 lists and console opinions to drum up traffic. Just like this video...
This site switched from pro-360 to pro-PS3 the day the $399 PS3 was announced and PS3 steamrolled over 360 that Christmas. A torrent of pro-PS3 news was unleashed across the globe and N4G's front page! At that point, 360 owners couldn't take the turning tables, dish taking and own medicine taking and fled the site! Many pro-PS3 related articles don't make it through approvals with an insane amount of reports. Some PS3 News articles have 100's of comments and are stuck at 100 degrees!
...deletes oner post when it mentions anything negative about bloodmask. go figure.
n4g isn't bad. It's the comment section. You can go to one article and find some stupid 11 year old trying to start a console war, that is doing nothing for them. A lot of people say n4g is full of Sony fanboys, but when I first got here, every article and comment I saw was about how the Xbox 360 is better and going to crush the PS3, and you would be attacked and ridiculed if you said anything positive about the PS3 no matter how true it was. Now that Sony's taking leaps every year the tides have turned and now the Sony fanboy's are parading like the 360 fanboy's once did. So pinning the blame on one group isn't fair nor is it right. n4g is nothing more than a gaming media hub, it's the users that make this place a nightmare for gaming journalism. But I must admit I do like seeing some of the nonsense that comes out of some of their mouths.
You know, once again my comment was deleted. My comment was more valid then all of this PS3 fan running the site nonsense. My remarks about our top contributor are self proclaimed and true. How can all of these guys above me claiming PS3 fans run the site just have a free run at bashing people who don’t praise the 360… even though their arguments hold no water. I come in and speak 100% truth and I am deleted. All I was saying is… if this site truly is a PS3 fan base run site, why is our top contributor every month someone who hates the PS3. No harm, no foul. Merry Christmas.
this site is run by sony fans. example: look at whats approved and whats reported. when there's something negative against MS. it's approved. but when the same news is posted about the ps3 or sony. sonyfan race to discredit the article or report it to the failed section. yes N4G was runned by 360 owner back in 07. but before that sonyfan was still bashing the 360 before it released. i remember sonyfan bashing 360 onwers for buying a 360. when it would only be out for 4 years. then MS would make a new system. because of what happened with the xbox. i also remember sonyfan claiming. when sony release the ps3. "it would sell like hot cakes". "everyone is waiting to buy one". "there's 125 mil ps2 owners waiting to buy one". then sony released the price of the ps3. then it became a diffrent story. now sonyfan are trying to play the victims. "oh 360 owners started it" actually this has been going on since the ps2 and xbox. it just filtered over into this gen. i like this site to an extent.because the news being posted is one sided. by one faction to claim ownage when the news favor their system of choice. but as soon as a negative review,post, blog,ect. they go on the defensive and start reporting the article or start disagreeing with people or taking bubbles. because these people don't share their opinion.
"funny how the mods (odion...i'm sure)... ...deletes oner post when it mentions anything negative about bloodmask. go figure. " Why not? Not only is it off-topic, but they're flaming another user. This zone is supposed to be a more friendly and civilized place. BIoodmask submits all kinds of news whether it's pro-PS3, anti-360, etc. But you PS3 fans tend to ignore that and cry foul at him when he submits anti-Sony news.
Wow. Simply Amazing. Nice abuse of power there. So it's okay for post 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.10, 1.18, 1.22, 1.26, 1.42, 1.43 and MANY OTHERS to say/agree that PS3 fans run N4G but when you provide ACTUAL PROOF that is not the case and point out how a certain contributor is confirmed biased your comment gets removed and a bubble gets taken away... THIS RIGHT HERE IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH N4G...certain staff who abuse their position. Thanx solidjun5 & Pennywise. But I fear this post will also get the same treatment. Which just proves my point and justifies it even more. Especially when the fair, proper & correct thing to do would be to either remove EVERYONE'S comment about this and/or remove a bubble as well that was similar...
I think is the same in gametrailers forums, maybe we playstation fans have more to speak of, all those games to look for, etc http://forums.gametrailers....
Hot Cosplay girl of the week....still a joke!
For the record, this site has NEVER been controlled by 360 fans. Easy to prove if I had time and cared enough. The ONLY difference between now and 2007 is then the PS3 fans didn't have a leg to stand on because the PS3 was an overpriced Bluray player with no games being worth the price tag. I still feel that way today at $300 and only two games I care about, pass. Unfortunately others looked at the possible future value of the PS3 and bought it anyway. I suppose if you like PS3 exclusives and watching movies it was worth it for you. All it did for me was keep the price point above what I am willing to pay. EDIT: Directed @ 2.1 rohail88. Must have hit reply to #1
when did i say this site as run by bots? learn to read i told the other bot that he has an account here so why is he calling it crap! and as for ur crticism about the ps3 its nothing more than blind hate, u just hate sony and thats why ur saying that!
I somewhat agree that N4G is flawed, but, it's not the sites fault. It's the community. I always see people moaning about how "stupid" or "flamebait" an article is, yet, THEY are the ones clicking on it, commenting, replying to comments and making it hotter and rise to the top. Because of that all the junk floats around the main page and the actual news, like you guys said, gets lost. Every morning when i sign into N4G i just scroll back a few pages and check out the low degree stories.(Usually the most interesting articles) As for Hiphopgamer, Jealous? You guys just failed hardcore. I can't think of a single person on this site who's jealous. I've been on N4G since Hiphopgamer show first started smothering it's name all over it.People aren't jealous, there sick of his flamebait headlines with no substance. I.E "kILLZONE 3 TO OUTSHINE HALO REACH?" While he only talks on the subject for 3 minutes.He uses ridiculous headlines to get hits and that's why people can't stand him.
@CanadianGuy I agree with your first point that the community is flawed but I disagree about HHG. Most of the community here doesn't like HHG because they don't consider him a real "journalist" and yet he gets to attend all of the big press events and such when they don't. He's also a prime example of why N4G can work. He went from a nobody to a somebody thanks to this site.
That doesn't mean people are "jealous" and even if they are, it is an irrelevant ad hominen. I've had people tell me HHG is "legit". I'm sorry, but just because he, or anyone else for that matter, attends big press events doesn't make him any more "legit" than it does Gamespot when they had that whole Army of Two scandal with Jeff. The point is, ThatCanadianGuy brings up a legit and known issue people have with HHG
True, i guess i can't speak for everybody on the HHG subject.But his headlines are the main reason i can't stand his "articles" Tho i do respect the fact he does meet some of the industries biggest devs and interviews them.Just the way he gets hits on his site is pretty low..
all around on this thread. And I agree canadian some article titles can be a bit out there. Although see how we're having a civilized conversation on here, give it about 10 minutes before people jump in here after reading the title and tell us all to eat a bag of d1cks. Just wait and see.
Who cares about them? Every site has its trolls. There are Fanboys, there are the minority fanboys, and then are trolls. Everybody hates the trolls on the bottom and I don't think you should worry about someone telling you to eat a bag. If they can't bring anything intellectual to a conversation then I pray that every single person on this site has the common sense to not take that person seriously. Also, regarding the people that report articles/users with reasons like "lame", that doesn't exactly mean they get taken down. I find that articles that have those kind of comments are obviously looked at by moderators, and I'm sure they don't simply base their moderations on the report history. Rather, the reporting feature is more of a tool to bring awareness to moderators.
@ThatCanadianguy420: Agree - it's primarily about community, but the site structure also has a hand in what gets to the top too (for example, different category structures, submission forms, and guidelines). Reddit and Digg are essentially the same concept executed with minor variations but it's the community that really defines them... and sparks a healthy competition between them. Agree - flamebait, cosplay girls, and incendiary posts are N4G's version of old media's "if it bleeds, it leads", using sex to sell, and mudslinging. As a reader you've got to wade through the crap to find what's substantial and meaningful. An article looking at the evolution of quicktime events in games is interesting and useful; constantly voting up every commenter who says Killzone 2 is GOTY is not. Disagree - Sometimes people are petty and jealous of successful people, no matter what degree of success. I've heard HipHopGamer make a couple real predictions before hearing anyone else talk about length on the topics: the potential of BFBC2 and PSN full game rental/sharing to name 2 off the top of my head. Good comment despite the otherwise out of place: "You guys just failed hardcore".
cry me a river 420
I agree ... My problem with HHG is that now people are trying bto emulate his work.i'm disapointed when i see epople posting "news" that are just flamebait for hits . WHen the purpose is not information but fame and hits ..it's wrong . Sadly someone people with their "blogs" are copying this aspect of HHG .Yesterday i got into an argument with one of them and he didn't even understand why he was wrong . When some people are bad examples and generate "clones"..this somehow need to stop .
Haha! I bet you cried enough for all of us when FF13 went multiplat. "SonySoliderEternal" ; Jesus..i thought i was a fanboy but, you take it to a whole other level..
@ Markremo. He is bound to get something right. just like one of these days Michael Pachter will get it right... It's gonna happen on occasion when you spout enough nonsense... The fact that you guys truly think a guy with no credentials, schooling or otherwise is a gaming "journalist" is beyond me. He probably cant even spell his name without an ebonics to english dictionary. Here is something for you. I went to comic con in San Diego and got to play the GOW3 demo before anyone else(For the most part) and posted my impressions here and how awesome it is. Then I even got to meet up with Dave Jaffe(Not in relation to GOW or anything I just follow his twitter and wanted to get his autograph on my Twisted Metal Black poster). OoOoO Can I be a game journalist and have everyone on N4G wish they were me now?... Seriously... It's not like he's banging Jessica Alba and Megan Fox at the same time. He talks to a bunch of nerds... About nothing... His interviews are lame and his questions suck. His site is a joke and he needs to go away. @ Alpha It was Kane and Lynch btw...
Fanboys are to blame. Not the owners, and not the entire community. I think N4G is the best thing that has ever happened to "unknown" sites who are not afraid to tell it like it is. You see, Gamespot and IGN can't do that, why? Deals prevent them from doing it. Folks could get fired just for writing an article that's a tad critical about a certain company. As for the reporting issue, I think mods should have the ability to delete some reports after they've looked at them and concluded that they're baseless. You have some folks who just don't like some sites and as soon as they're url shows up then it's either flame, lame, fake, blog, or whatever. However the same topic will be examined by another site and it's approved by the same folks who reported the site that they didn't like. It's not easy to fix the community, but it can, some folks should be totally eliminated from reporting stories after a consecutive string of misdemeanor reports.
It's so bad here on N4Gs they have no choice but to favor these conditions. There is nobody left but PS3 fanboys. You never noticed the few 360 fans here are punished 3 times as harsh with bans, bubble loss, restrictions while most PS3 fans do as they wish? Where else can a 360 fan comment a game in the 360 section and get 200 disagrees lol. Hell it's so bad here one of the mods tracks my comments when my comments are pages back and over a day old and deletes them.
Honestly, how many blog are suddenly getting mentioned if not headlined on other sites just because they were on N4G first?
Is the inevitable discussion of gaming and games 'journalism' bad for games 'journalism' ? Is any discussion about anything relevant to you or me considered bad? Yes,but it is and remains a necessary outlet for those who fuel the industry-consumers. Gamers by self appointment yet consumers in as much.Opinion dictates many markets...no? N4G bad for marketing shoddy games? YES. As we were.
"Gaming Journalism" isn't journalism. It is part public relations, part advertising. Its like calling People Magazine or TMZ journalism or calling Roger Ebert a journalist. He is a film critic, not a reporter. Wake up. There is no such thing as gaming journalism. Not one review of Modern Warfare 2 mentioned network lag. A very common occurrence during play. Why? A real journalist would have covered every aspect of the game. nobody did. This is the same for nearly every game out there. Get over yourselves. Gaming Journalism is as real as Eric Cartman.
@eagle21: I think you bring up an interesting point but take your hyperbole too far. I agree that over the last 20 years gaming journalism has turned into an outlet for corporations to advertise their games and overall we've seen a drop in sincere, insightful, quality reporting. As games have become more complex, the information we're given about them has become hermetic and meaningless. Sometimes I get the feeling that game "reviewers" don't play games enough to make valid statements about them or aren't having fun anymore and therefore missing the point of the game altogether. However, all of the examples you list, despite not being "investigative" are examples of journalism nonetheless. To your actual example of Modern Warfare 2 having lag: I haven't experienced any more lag playing it than any other game and so, were I to review it I wouldn't "report" lag either.
I guess this so called "game journalist" seems to have forgotten that most of the failures we have here in the industry can be firmly laid at their feet. Yet they are quick to point the accusatory fingers at the fans for their failures, when they themselves were the ones fanning the fire with their sensationalize stories and hidden propaganda. And let's not forget the Bias and Double Standards that's running rampant in our industry or the ones turning a blind eye to obvious faults because they hide and cower in the name of the hype and the mighty. And when called into question, you get the "Well It's my opinion", "Top 10 reasons why...", "We have different standards...", and other banalities, to excuse themselves of any wrongdoing. Well if you are going to sit and discuss things that are wrong with gaming industry, maybe we should start with what is wrong with gaming journalism first, you know just saying.
gaming journalism has been a farce this gen... baised fanboys writing reviews, talking crap about games, single console, in particular. fix the darn journalism first!
that dude Joel (black shirt) is just bitter and sounds more of a douche than "fanboys". :) Why write a story about twitter being N4G's downfall? N4G may be flawed, but it serves it's purpose well if you also read the stories that aren't just on the front page.
"all around on this thread. And I agree canadian some article titles can be a bit out there. Although see how we're having a civilized conversation on here, give it about 10 minutes before people jump in here after reading the title and tell us all to eat a bag of d1cks. Just wait and see." But please name a site where this doesn't happen (granted to a lesser extent)
great job on counterpoint dualshockers!
Lol, these guys are terrible. N4G is a crappy site.