Seven Ways to Turn Around the PlayStation 3

You could view the current situation of the PS3 in one of two ways; either everything is going as planned and the geniuses at Sony are gifted with insane amounts of foresight, or things could be better. Being that Sony appears a little bit, shall we say, defensive about the whole ordeal, we suspect the latter. So assuming Sony still wants to appeal to the mass market, here are seven ways the company can turnaround the PS3 in the shortest amount of time. Behold our armchair quarterback skills!

[PS360PCROCKS]

Sweet! First comment...start your engines here comes a lame ass flamer war...i'm out

[kewlkat007]

I'm sick of commenting "How a SUBSTANTIAL Price-cut will help SONY"(not like $50-$100), and I'm sure I am not alone. However ..too many "How to save/resurrect PS3 articles"

I Think we should know by now, nevertheless this is still news.

I'm also out....

[DrRage77]

seven ways to turn around hte ps3 is great, but i think everyone will agree that the only one that really matters and should be addressed is price.....if they drop the price, they will sell more consoles. it is as simple as that. let's not make elaborate stories and scenarios about this, and let's not start flaming either. a simple price drop will move more ps3 consoles and get it rolling since better games are already on their way.....

i have an xbox360, and there would have been zero chance of me buying it if the price had been $600...even if it would have had the hd-dvd drive built-in. it's really about market demand, and the market demands a reasonably priced gaming console (wii anyone?). when you get over $500, that is where the average gamer backs away from purchasing anything. even $400 seems high to alot of gamers, and that is where the wii picked up it's steam from

[Rhaigun]

Sony needs to do something. They need more than just FF XIII and MGS4. That's really not going to bring in the casuals. The $600 pricetag surely isn't going to bring them either.

[closedxxx]

They don't need to turn anything around... the PLAYSTATION 3 is DOMINATING!!!! right?

[TheExecutive]

That's rediculous... Im a sony fan and there are plenty of problems. I still dont think its doing as badly as everyone says it is; but they need a price drop, and more games, period.

[closedxxx]

You are correct... GAMES GAMES GAMES... Not only does SONY really need to get more games for the console, they REALLY need to do a better job of marketing the games they do have, and will have in the near future. Right now MICROSOFT has much more commercial air time and local advertising than SONY or NINTENDO

[jerrell]

7 ways to turn around what?? PS3? Please, I said it before and I will say it again, if the PS3 Had hell of games out right now (exclusives)then they would sell more cause people would want to play them regardless of price. The price is not a factor unless you are a broke person working at a fast food restuarant or have no job period. When people start to see this system is more than a Game Console, they will see the reason for the price. This machine is future proof. Kind of like building a PC, you pay top dollar for a good processor that way you don't have to worry about upgrading for years.....HELLO!! Or you can be like Microsoft and ride the multi-SKU bandwagon.

[VirtualGamer]

They obviously have their opinon just like everyone else. The only thing I would like to point out is that they are wrong about this statement.

"the PS3 sold worse in the first six months than any other console, including the soft-selling GameCube."

http://vgchartz.com/hwcomps...

http://vgchartz.com/hwcomps...

[OldSchoolGamer]

A NEWS SITE, IT IS PULLED TOGETHER BY FANBOYS. Wow, this has been said many times.

[tplarkin7]

It's funny how VG Chartz uses "sold to consumer" numbers for 360 and PS3. Nobody tracks "sold to consumer". NPD only tracks "sold to retail". Yet the Wii sales are always extrapolated to the last minute.

[VirtualGamer]

Well if you guys would direct me to a more reliable site for such information I would go with that. I have a feeling though there is no such thing. If anything, the PS3 numbers they are showing for the PS3 are low compared to what Sony offically reported for shipped and sold to investors at the end of March. In any event the point I was trying to make is that the PS3 is not the worse selling console ever as Gamepro is stating.

[THAMMER1]

It is too late. No one gives a D@MN any more.

[Monchichi025]

I'm sorry but the PS3 will not be able to be saved. The mistakes were done at the design stage and are now unreversable:

Here are the facts:

Yes, PS3 sales are on par with those of the PS1 and PS2 but people forget to mention the most important parts. PS1 was a new system to the market with little buzz when it came out. Once people started hearing word of how much better and cost effective it was then the N64, sales finally picked up. And yes, the N64 was the only real competition that generation and Nintendo pretty much eliminated themselves that generation with horrible mistakes!!

The PS2 came into the market with more buzz then any other system had ever had. (AKA: The government didn't want Iraq to have them because they could use the technology to build nuclear bombs! LMAO) It’s only competition at that time was Sega, and don’t kid yourself, Sega was already doomed for failure. The numbers of sales were only low because Sony could not keep up with the demand, obviously shrinking sales numbers. They didn’t meet demand till well after Christmas of the following year!!

The PS3 is the total opposite! Even with strong supply available since about two weeks after launch, there is NO demand!! 80,000 units last month?!?! And if you think that’s bad, wait till this months figures come out!!!! Expect sales to be around 50,000 with no games available. They are sitting on store shelves everywhere collecting dust.
PS3 is also finally facing some strong competition playing on a level playing field. Consumer finally have viable options and are voting against Sony with there wallets.

And for everyone saying wait for the games?! You are the same people who said wait till Motorstorm comes out!!! That did absolutely nothing to help out. Face it; most people have no clue what Liar, Heavenly Sword, Little Planet or those games are so they will not push consoles. Only games that can help push consoles are mass market games such as Madden, Grand Theft Auto, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy and maybe Killzone. And sadly Madden and Grand theft Auto will be available on the more cost effective 360 with better graphics since the developers are using the 360 as the lead console for those games. Metal Gear and Final Fantasy? Well those games are not due till late 2008 and there is still that pesky rumor that they might be multi platform. Killzone? I expect it to be a GREAT game, but part 1 was hyped to be great too and it was AWFUL!!! People will remember that and will make people leery when it goes head to head with the monster that is Halo.

And last but most importantly: PRICE!!!!!!!!!
$600???? Are you insane!!!! And a price drop will only cripple Sony even more as Microsoft will counter with one as well putting there core system at the $200 sweet spot for the mass market.

I’m sorry, but it’s time to face the reality. The PS3 was a Horrible mistake!!!!! I too was once a Sony fanatic but was smart enough to realize doom before it came.

(Now you haters may burst my bubbles) LOL

[Monchichi025]

Sorry...Double post!!! Happy Gaming my friends!!!

[closedxxx]

Damn dude, you don't have any more bubbles to burst! You used them both up double posting your novel!

[nobizlikesnowbiz]

I'm not a bubble hater, so I won't do that. But I agree the PS3 was probably doomed from the beginning. If they somehow turn it around I will be amazed. I have a 360, but I'd buy a PS3 if it was a little cheaper, and had some great games showcasing it's power. But I'm not seeing too much of that right now. Maybe closer to Xmas?

[TruthHurts]

give it time and stop being impatient nerds.

[neogeo]

I would like PS3 to fail. that way I can own some great games that everybody is jealous of. I kinda hate god of war knowing everybody and there momma has beat it. I used to love the days when I had NEOGEO while everybody had SNES ans SEGA they would come over to my home, I would pop in some Fatal Fury. And everyone would say WOW! while I was the only one that had it:)

[bootsielon]

The games.

Sony has to wait till they get more games to drop the price, otherwise a price drop would not spurr demand (or at least not as much), and worse, they would have no way to recoup even MORE losses than they're already taking.

Early adopters only (or mostly) care about games, before price, so games are more important right now.

Another point is that right now it doesn't really matter if they're doing really bad, since after all, selling season (a.k.a. holiday season) has yet to come, so they have plenty of time to hurry and get the costs of PS3 down so they can price drop in time for holiday, when they'll have tons of games.

By holiday, they will need a MASSIVE price drop, nothing less than $150 dollars. If they manage to get it to $400, it'll be a decent holiday season for them, since they'll have plenty of games and HOME, which are several reasons to sway SOME away people from buying Halo 3 + Xbox 360 or Wii+Mario.

[TheExecutive]

Nobody can say that the PS3 is doomed this early in the cycle... NOBODY. We can agree, however, that the lack of games at the moment does not justify the 600 bucks that the console costs. I bought one not for the games at the moment, although I do enjoy Resistance, oblivion, and motorstorm, but for games in the future. Now that may sound stupid to some, but I could afford the system when I bought it so i did buy it.

I dont think that the PS3 will fail. I think it will do very well from this xmas on. One can argue with me about that but the truth of it is that it is just my opinion. However, the ps brand has always been a strong one and I believe it will continue to be.

[BlazeXXL]

Ahem, lol, the PS3 can't fail. And I'm saying this unbiased. You know why it can't fail? Cause too much money is being pumped into it. Do you really think PS3 won't come back when the price drops?

I mean, that thing is gonna sell like I dunno what when the price drops to 300-400 bucks (even if Microsoft lowers the price of the 360). Cause it's a far better deal with such a price tag.

But do you guys honestly think Sony aint got some cards up its sleeve? Cause if you don't, then you're just ignorant lol. They did dominate for 2 generations long you know..

[Xi]

sony might have a trump card, but so does nintendo and microsoft.

[caffman]

thepricedropiscomingthepricedr opiscomingthepricedropiscomingt hepricedropiscomingthepricedrop iscomingthepricedropiscoming
and then slowly bang your head against a wall

[rowdy 1]

to tell anything about if it's going to fail or not. I mean they're closing in on 4mil units sold at 7mos. That's not to bad considering the heavy price tag. There are some good things that will be happening with the system in the next few months. Maybe this time next year will be a better time to see if the system is doing well. Right now they're just getting started.

[gunnar2906]

When is Sony going to comment articles like this one? I guess never. Too many undertakes and too many savers. Meanawhile Sony progresses each week - releasing new usefull updates and anouncing new game releases. But dogs dont seem to stop barking. And as we all know barking dogs dont bite.

Who is going to die here? Being released only 2 months ago in Europe and just 1 month ago in Russia. What decisions can be made about nearly newborn console? It is only 5 month old but all are going to bury it since the date of its release.
PS3 is being sold pretty good here in Moscow. According to the info from guys selling stuff in Gamepark (the biggest and cheapest Moscow console stuff selling network) they sell 3-5 PS3s daily and only 1-2 X360 units weekly in their small shop near my home. No demand of old consoles with 2-3 games aboard. Sony never underestimate russian market making the best efforts fighting with piracy. And it does pretty good - no pirated copies of PS or PS2 games can be found in Moscow and all major cities in Russia.unit Sony cares about its customers - take a look at the picture here http://ps3blogger.ru/russsp... - I bought just released in the USA Spiderman3 this friday in Moscow with booklet and cover already in russian. (sorry for the bad quality of the picture). Some other console manufacturers cares about consistency of their consoles too - but pretty different way.
No need to find a way for PS3 salvation ... peoplee who own it just enjoy it. Who dont stop barking and go get some job to afford it =)

[Xi]

i call BS.

[gunnar2906]

Xi deep already told everything for you to know yesterday.
I think it was enuff.

BTW deep is the best contributor of this site =)

Maybe he is a fanboy but obvously well informed fanboy .... so his choice is worth of attention

Sorry for responding you here .. I reached comments limit for this thread. You asked what I'm worth of?
Oki, I'm one of co-founders of gotps3.ru site. Now I'm working at my own ps3blogger.ru site.
I'm not a fan boy cuz I have my own opition and it is based not only on someone else's articles, screenshots or movie trailers - I own all 3 nextgen consoles, I have them since their release in Russia (only X360 wasnt still officially released here). And I have at least 15 years of gaming expirience. It is not very important.
I hate when ppl bashing anything that is not affordable for them it is just simple wild instinct as you try to do. If you simply misinformed it is not your fault. Having all of consoles I made my own decision for my own reasons and if someone is not agree with me it doesnt give them any right to call my thoughts BullSh*t or something. If you have no arguments just sit on your ass and read what cleverer and older people writing here

[Xi]

deep's a fanboy.

[Lumbo]

if deep is a fanboy, what makes that out of you ?
I'll help you with the answer: some worthless random guy without a clue who calls people fanboys cause he likes to flame. You contribute nothing to this site except your slander ... shows your worth ...

[fenderputty]

Price cut, more games, price cut, more games, more games, more games, price cut.

At least the games are on their way. We can only hope for a price cut too.

[progx]

...I just really wanted to say that.

[CrazzyMan]

IT`s dooig GOOD, without many great games released and with higher price.
GOOD!
you know how much cost 80k PS3 ?? like 4,8 Mln $. And people still buying that concole.

ok, 6 week till the E3 left.. end is coming soon to all these worthless news.

by the end of october 2006 ONLY ~6 mln. x360 were sold worldwide.
ps3 has 5 month, now only with 3,5 mln. worldwide, why you people think, it won`t make another 2,5 mln. when during that time will be released games like:

NGS
Folklore
Everybody Golf 5
Lair
Heavenly Sword
Warhawk
Singstar
Socom Confrontation
Grand Theft Auto IV
PS Home
Unreal T3
Eye of judgement
Assasin`s Creed
Colin McRae Dirt

I mean, x360 didn`t have so much really amazing games(you may think that those are average games, but then try to find a match for every of those games, which will be released on ps3 during june-october 2007 with games released during june-october 2006 on x360).

[caffman]

And isn't 5 of the games on that list also coming out on the 360?

[Xbot_Killer]

if they come out on the scratchbox too? id rather go to the movies than rent the dvd.

[AIZEN SOZUKE]

there is something huge that will change ps3 sales and make it leap past 180 and wii, that is by many pc and 180 fans making powerful assumptions about the ps3 and the graphics it can produce, and saying that the 180 or pc have better graphics than the ps3, and giving all these absurd posts about what the ps3 hardware really is and that it cant produce the graphics they showed in e3 2005, there is only one problem with that, they are totally wrong, and people are comming in these blogs and forums and looking at what they are posting and those negative comments that they are saying about ps3's power in comparison to 180s power and graphics of ps3, pc, and 180 and they are expecting what you say to be true, now all that is left is what is going to happen when the ps3 starts getting truelly pushed because developers, like guerilla games have decided to really push money into developemt of the ps3 to truelly pull out the power of the onboard supercomputer of the ps3, and games end up looking better than the target renders, well consumers and other console buyers will feel as if they were lied to by fake tech specialists, and 180 fans(that also think they are tech specialists), and pc fans(think they know it all) and that will cause a massive backlash, because before ps3 was even released you were saying that the 180 will have better graphics than ps3, and will "NEVER" have glitches of ware graphics, ha, the ending result will be an unprecedented number of returns of many consoles, and i dont mean ps3, there will be people that see the ps3's graphics and instantly want to get one reguardless of the price, that is how great the graphics advance will be, when you have cg ingame that is definately worth over 600 dollars, and reason i said it is close, is because sony is unveiling killzone 2 in e3 this year, and who knows what else, there is a great possibility that there will be games shown for ps3 that will look even greater than killzone 2, and the longevity of the ps3 will surely make a difference in the gen war, and truely the ps3 is in a gen of its own, neither the 180 nor the wii are truely next gen, so how is the ps3 in a battle with either of them and for those of you that say that the ps3 needs more games, well sorry there are over 120 in developement, many of these will definately look greater than killzone 2, and now there are probably even more than 120, but you dont gotta think im lyin, take a look at wikipedia if you dont believe me, count the ps3 out if you dare, but those of you that hope and pray that ps3 fails, or looses you will have your feelings terribly hurt, like getting rejected by the girl you hold dear in your heart, and are in love with, and you finally find courage to holla at her, and then she gives you da cold shoulda, yeah thats how sony haters will feel, and for those of you that say that sony has tricks up their sleeves, and so does nintendo and microsoft, well who has more tricks, i would have to say sony, they are japanese so they are much smarter, nintendo is japanese to but an american is in charge of nintendo, only a pure strait out fool would count such a powerful market sense such as sony out this soon, youd have to seriously be on meth, or truely hate sony to wish such a thing, 7 months, remember that thats how much time ps3 has been out, so dont count it out, ever

[caffman]

we will sit here and wait for the ps3s killer apps. In the meantime, if you don't mind, I think I'll go and play Gears.

[kewlkat007]

I see "180=xbox360)" in that POST, is that "KEVIN"?(lack of sentence structure)

hey at least your post is getting trimmer.

Nobody is counting Ps3 out bro, everybody is just getting sick of saying the same things.

Price Drop and Games. If one of those factors don't turn the Tide, then I'm not sure what will is what they mean.

1. Still at $600, unless I'm some hardcore fan , I'm not going to buy one game,PS3,controller, warranty for over $750+ bones.

2. At $500 I might think about it, but still look over to the competitor.(if they cut their prices too)

3. At $400 and less, then nobody is stopping me at a chance to own the PS3. Easily attainable, and maybe somewhat persuadable to parents and grand parents come holiday season.

[progx]

huntersville..."how can you say they lied about 4d, its only been 7 months, the ps3 has every thing nessasary to borough into the 4d era, so how can you say they have lied? Please do tell" (comment on the Consoles Talk Back article)

-Yes folks this tard actually believes in 4d. Sorry dude, I can't take you seriously.

crazymann...
dirt= 360
UT3= 360
GTA 4= 360
assassin's creed= 360
everbody golf= who cares?
NGS= wtf is that
home= the sims
singstar= gay
eye of judgement= yu-gi-oh

[BlazeXXL]

and we should take you seriously? You're saying home = sims, and singstar is gay? Get a life morron.

[DADO]

.

[gunnar2906]

Many of you like parrots keep saying only 2 things - "price cut" and "more games".
terrible purblindness and dullness!
I'd like to see your reaction if Sony would remove from PS3 all hi-tech stuff like Cell, wi-fi , RSX etc and put inside old ps2 hardware , and begin to sell it as a next-gen console with a Blu-Ray and HDMI for 199 bucks. Wow! Fancy stuff in it! Best buy! Cheap and affordable - and completely backward-compatible!
Look here - http://amazon.com/s/ref=nb_... - how many new br-players are under $599? Sony offers twice lower price with lil additions like wifi, cardreaders, 60 gb HDD, and useless Cell processor...
What "price cut" are you talking about ? You are offered to buy a Porshe for a price of Toyota Avensis. But you are so greedy that you want this Porshe for a price of Toyota Yaris.

More games? How many good games were released for X360 by Apr 2006 after 5 month from its release? Cameo? Yeah, at the top of graphics perfection! PGR3? Even MS admited that "it was made in rush" ... The best game on X360 was released only after 1 year! What games do you want more from Sony now? It does its best....

[BlazeXXL]

however, casual gamers don't care about the hightec stuff, they wan't a regular console that plays cool games, for not a lot of money. We, know all the facts, so for us it's quite cheap.

[gunnar2906]

Casuals read Gamespot =) They are "well informed" about PS3 issues by MS adepts =)
The difference between Sony and MS is in thir different approaches: Sony preffers invest money in hi-tech researches and MS likes to invest money in publicity (incl. PS3 bashing) =) MS hi-tech is the fate of Apple Comp. =)
Tell me where I'm wrong?
Anyway a bubble to u =)

[gano]

Hi guys new here sorta, read alot of post from u guys about alot
of things going on but what i don't understand is, a system drop
about almost 7/8 months now, and all people can talk about afterwards
is it's bad, no games, and so on. But the so on part i don't get, half the people prob won't get even after the price drop, if there are no games y get it right. I've never really heard as much bad feedback
from a system launch since.....man the cast but then again i never even seen that comin but no one did. But i never heard the 360 get slammed this hard when it droped. And from what we really know that b... break down, u need a towl to fix, a TOWEL GOTDAMMIT to fix
it but people can spend 300 to 350 for a phone alone. Talk hang up,
take a pic maybe, and hope u covered if u loose that hoe. I jus lost one to damn!! Any way i get up to see if updates and new games are coming but all i get is ps bs about what they need to do and u really mean people are fine truly payin 400 for a system that will break for bs reasons and charge u a arm and a leg afterwards no point need to be made we did this s@!# before. I guess what i'm tryin to say is when people get up do they first think about what they hate first then talk about or gossip about or do they really give a damn about games!
Half the people don't like or wasn't to sure what mgs was till the f.. post a rumor bout it to get it started. No hate on the system it DOES HAVE GOOD GAMES AFTER A YEAR, IT'S SUPPOSE TO AIN'T IT. Now i have a ?
who hear is willing to pay over 500 for another system in 2 yrs for a system they have current now, as well as a cell phone that has partial
features of your comp, and it's a import for over 350 unlocked. Prices
are going up fellas as is technology. Who hear still carries a cell phone for that matter with no color.

[naturalgamer]

i remember the same $hit with the 360 at it's beginning. give it some time ....

[Skynetone]

it was fun while it lasted {motor storm was fun}

Lets move on bring out the cheaper and better ps4 with lots of games

[IBLEEDBLU]

crazyman is rite

it hasnt even been a year! relax ppl lol its funny how ppl say its already dead yet all their big titles are coming lol lets compare 1st year games from xbox360 to PS3 lol the 1st year games on the PS3 look way BETTER!! then xbox360 2nd year games

some1 stated "you guys wait till u get ur games and ill go play my gears" that just goes to show u since the launch of gears what must have game has come out? LOL! thats what i thought...really nothing

stop complaining about the cost to - picking MS will cost u much more then the PS3 with all the break downs and XBL fee + add-ons and the fact that every dev out there is stating that they are having huge issues with the space of the crappy DVD9 - its only a matter of time that xbox like the elite will screw u over and launch a 360 with bluray which will cost u more and screw u over but the funny thing is - u will go buy it and u wont have a problem with it hahahaaha u guys are truly brain washed

[progx]

My opinion is that home=sims. And singstar is gay, who fu*kin plays that? Its gay regardless of what console its on.

The genius I was quoting believes that 4d/matrix BS krazy ken was babbling about. Anyone who buys into that crap can't be taken seriously, like I had said. Learn to read douchebag.

[ApocalypseShadow]

you don't feel so gay when you're creating and playing with your virtual doll in combat games.your virtual customized hot wheel car in racing games.your virtual wanna be sports star in sports games.you waste all that time creating something just to use it.somehow it's fun there but not in home.can't do that.that character you created in oblivion,why waste the time?

or is it because xbox live isn't really a community.you only come together to shoot each other.not shoot the breeze with other like gamers and maybe play some games as well.maybe make a friend besides your real world friends.home is just a 3d representation of you that you don't have to use.how can you bag on something that's free?unless you're a hater.

ever heard of american idol?i don't hate it.but i don't watch it.reminds me of star search.been there and done that.but millions love american idol.and singstar caters to that audience.millions around the world.kareoke lovers will want the game too.my friends daughter loves it.bet there are more out there like her.

you don't want to like these things like home, little big planet and so on because you don't want sony to succeed using games and applications that are not hardcore shooting games.i may not buy them but there will be those who will.so they are not catering to you.poor baby.waaaaa!

people speculate and analyze over and over what sony should do.i think they have some idea what they should do.they don't need you or anyones opinion what they should do.don't like it?don't buy it is their response.but others will.see something you like,hey, we're happy you bought it.we think you'll enjoy it would be their response.

7 way,10 reasons,why sony this,how come that.and sales seem to continue without haters help.fold your arms in disgust.it's not like the general population cares what you think on the internet.same with my post.

[X]

Price - For the people working the average paid job, 600 bucks is a lot of money.

Games - Lack of titles hurt too. A console is no good to you if there is nothing to play on it.

That is the weaknesses of PS3. But as history dictates, both of those things change over time.

[level 360]

To start of why seven?, when only one answer says it all. { PRICE } - PLAIN AND SIMPLE ( NOT SEVEN WAYS, JUST ONE AND IT'S ENOUGH )

[ASSASSYN 36o]

D00Med system alert.

[Danielson]

dont no why every one hates this system so much
call me crazy but i love my ps3
cant wait for home, warhawk, uncharted...no need to turn it around its all ready been done seriously ps3 has some pretty cool stuff going for,so stop hatin so much! d[>_<]b !!!
anyways i still kickin some resistance n00b ass..lol

[snoop_dizzle]

people again are going to extremes on both sides again.

For instance

"Sony is doomed!"
No they aren't. Games are coming.

"Sony is doing awesome!"
somewhat, but realize much of that is that they didn't have the year start the 360 had.

"Sony will win because the PS3 has the greatest graphics!"
Last gen the original xbox did but it wasn't #1, plus it came out
later.

"The 360 is doomed because all the issues it had!"
Sony was in a similar situation with the PS2, many buggy consoles(i know more people who went through PS2s that anyone who has had a broken 360 at least who i know personaly, again probably regional, but still an issue), and look how sony did. It had the most amount of good games. Now compare that to now. Seem familiar?

Its almost like the PS3 fanboys are like the xbox fans of last gen and the 360 fanboys are like the PS2 fanboys of last gen. The PS3 fans want the best graphics and the game library is somewhat lacking so far at least. And the 360 fans want more gameplay other than graphics.

The PS3 and 360 aren't going anywhere for a while.

People really need to stop oversimplifying things. Think.

_____________________________ ______________________________ _ __________

And i have a question, and i really don't know the answer to it.
How come PC games fit on DVD9s fine if they are so big? Do they use multiple discs? I'm not a PC gamer so i really don't know for the really nice games at least. Or are people oversimplifying a problem again? I have a feeling there is an issue, but are people just really making mountains out of mole hills, if you will?

[CrazzyMan]

UT - 1999 - 300MB.
UT2003 - 2003 - 3,1GB.
UT2004 - 2004 - 5,5 GB.

UT3 - 2007 - 8,5GB. -> Only for x360, yeah? =))

[Bloodmask]

This one is for you shadow gamer.......

1) The graphics card in the 360 is far superior to RSX....it is what it is.

2)The CPU in the 360 has three full IBM cores running in sync as compared to the PS3s one....it is what is is

3) The cell processor was only chosen by sony for PS3 to render Bluray movies and is primarily a multimedia processor and has no real power for gaming applications......it is what it is

4} The six SPU's in the cell processor are optimized to crunch numbers for video streaming and imaging for bluray movies and are not flexible like a full core.....there really is no comparison....it is what it is...

5} The PS3 was designed as a Bluray player first and a games machine second....Sonys trojan horse to win the HD format war......it is what it is

6}As far as game development, the Cell wasn't designed with gaming as the main focus. When every 3rd party game developer not afraid to speak up complains about an atrocious development enviroment, and cycle, it should be obvious that the Cell wasn't built with gaming as it's main focus.......it is what it is

7) All of the 360 games that are released multiformat have better framerates on the 360 becuse the PS3 has a memory bottleneck from only having one core with two threads as compare to the 360s 6 threads from three full cores.....as well as having a graphics card with only 256 megs of video ram(PS3).....vs the XBOX360 512......It is what it is

8} The cell processor and its SPUs have nothing to do with graphics at all, games on the PS3 are run completely on the RSX(Nvidia 7900gs), which is an outdated video card....It is what it

9) Sony could care less if PS3 is a success, as long as Bluray becomes the new format of choice so they can advance their television, audio, and movie industry.................it is what it is

10) Besides the fact that Sony spent billions of dollars engineering the Cell and blu-ray, blu-ray is the only reason that Sony chose to use the Cell. It wasn't because the Cell is a great processor for gaming applications......it is what it is

11) All the PS3 is is a single dual thread core 3.2g processor with an outdated nvidia graphics card with not enough video ram.............with six SPUs available for streaming Bluray movies.....it is what it is

12)Sony has a very talented first part studio and should have concentrated on a games machine that would exploit those strengths, instead of getting greedy with Bluray..........It is what it is

13)If Sony would have left the Bluray drive out they could have launched near the 360 launch and been ahead right now because the PS3 would have been 200 dollars cheaper and has higher brand recognition..........It is what it is.......

14) It doesn't matter how many great games you can make if it takes you twice as long to create them because your hardware limits you..... and development costs are sky high....it is what it is

15) Why would you be blind to the truth when it is so blatantly obvious.............This company has lied time and time again and everyone is making these petitions.....It is what it is

16) When you do things that are deceitful and are sneaky and underhanded you deserve to lose......that is just the way karma works......it is what it is

(example of lying to the public)
PS3 to run at 120 fps?
It's possible, says Sony Computer Entertainment president Ken Kutaragi.
By Staff, GameSpot
Posted Oct 28, 2005 10:27 am PT
Coming soon to an Internet message board near you: waves of more-hardcore-than-thou posters referring to any game running at 60 frames per second (fps) as "a slideshow."

Appearing at the Tokyo International Digital Conference on Thursday to talk about the technological capabilities of the PlayStation 3 and the Cell processor, Sony Computer Entertainment president Ken Kutaragi said he expects the PS3 to be capable of running games at a stunning 120fps, according to a report in The Nikkei BP.

[CrazzyMan]

1)
RSX
5 shader ALU operations per pipeline per cycle (2 vector4 and 2 scalar (dual/co-issue) and fog ALU)
27 FLOPS per pipeline per cycle
-> 68 billion shader operations per second theoretical maximum ( ((5 ALU x 24 pixel pipelines) + (2 ALU x 8 vetrex pipelines)) x 500 MHz )
364 GFLOPS ( ((27 FLOPS x 24 pixel pipelines) + (10 FLOPS x 8 vertex pipelines)) x 500 MHz )
24 filtered and 32 unfiltered texture samples per clock

Xenos
2 shader ALU operations per pipeline per cycle (1 vector4 and 1 scalar, co-issued)
10 FLOPS per pipeline per cycle
-> 48 billion shader operations per second theoretical maximum (2 ALU x 48 shader pipelines x 500 MHz)
240 GFLOPS (10 FLOPS x 48 shader pipelines x 500 MHz)
16 filtered and 16 unfiltered texture samples per clock

HS developer:
In [b]Lost Planet[/b], each character is 10-20K polys. A VS robot is 30-40K polys. A background is about 500K. With shadows and other hidden rendering cost, it's about [b]3 million[/b] polys per frame.

Different platforms require different care, would not be surprised if ppl working on 360 and suddenly dropping their datasets onto RSX would not observe good numbers (and viceversa)
Now..I can't see how RSX, if used in the right way, should be so limited at vertex processing: in HS we easily render 2-2.5 MTriangles per frame at 30 fps without being VS limited and without making any use of CELL to speed up vertex shading and I know for sure that being more clever we could even go faster..[b](just using the GPU)[/b]

The numbers quoted about HS are slighty wrong..cause a few days a go I realized there's a bug in the code that computes the triangle count: in some cases it's more close to [b]3M triangles[/b] per frame mark than 2M.

2) HS developer:

Now before I get jumped on here let me briefly mention the downsides. The 360's cpu setup is painfully easy to code for. But, they really aren't all that fast. Worse yet, all three cores use the same memory controller so the three cores are not three times the power of the one core on the PS3 due to some overhead. The PS3's spu's on the other hand are monstrously fast. You need to setup your data correctly to work with them, but once thats done then yes, [b]the 360's cpu setup is crap compared to fully working spu's.[/b] I say fully working because most current games out there barely even touch on them, it will take time to re-write everything. I haven't done spu coding....yet. I will be though in 2007 which will be pretty cool.

3) nonsense -> look 2).

4) nonsense -> look 2).

5) nope, ps3 is a multimedia hardware, not just a console.

6) nonsense -> look 2).

7) nonsence:

Heavenly Sword developer:

"--Regarding cpu, yes its totally different arguments. The 360's is a very standard setup, a bunch of cores that can all see main memory. The advantage to this is that lots of thread coded written over the years can be ported to it easily. For example, Valve (the Half Life guys) are writing an entirely threaded engine for the PC. When it's done, porting it to the 360 will be easy. How about porting it to the PS3? Nope, won't work, it's a totally different setup. The PS3's main core is basically the same, but its spu's can't see main memory. Each one has 256k that it can work with, so you need to rewrite your code to pack things into 256k chunks, feed it to the spu's to process it, then copy it all back to main memory. In other words, you've gotta rewrite your code.--"

Lair developer:

"--A: You’ll have a hard time if you port without having a PS 3 game in mind when you created the 360 version. That is where a lot of complaints are coming from. They created the 360 engine with a unified memory architecture in mind, with the embedded frame buffer with its advantages and disadvantages, and not thinking too much in early stages about multicore. If you try to get that over to the PS 3, you’re in for a bad surprise. The PS 3 is all about streamlining about the two different memory pools. They are separate. You don’t have to do tiling because you don’t have an embedded frame buffer. All of these advantages of the PS 3 turn into disadvantages if you don’t start making your game on the PS 3. Hence the griping. If you create first on the PS 3, it is pretty easy to port it to the 360. A lot of companies coming on board now will probably start on the PS 3 and move to the 360. The lucky thing for us is we didn’t have to think about the 360 at all.--"

8) any prove of that ? because RSX by itself count ~3Mln. polys, while x360 with full use of GPU and CPU only got 3mln.
Besides, for Motorstorm graphics was used only RSX, and cell was used only for physcis and AI + other stuffs. 15-20% of cell was used in that game. In motorstorm2 developers are going to use 100% of cell.

9) big deal.

10) nonsense -> look 2).

11) nonsense -> look 1), 2).

12) they already creating amazing games, look at Sony Gamer`s Day 07.

13) you sound like a fanboy of year 2000.
"Sony is also under the mistaken impression that including the ability to play DVD movies is a huge selling point. But true technophiles and hardcore gamers probably already have DVD drives. I'm a good case in point. I already own a Sony DVD player, so I could not care less if the $299 PS2 can play movies. I'd rather pay less and get a machine that just plays games instead.

In comparison, the Sega Dreamcast sells for $149 and has a giant library of games already available. Sega also has an online game network, Seganet."

Oct. 27, 2000

14) Optimization for Cell is limitless © LAIR developer.

15) you just don`t know many FACTS about ps3.

16) PS3 is only 6 month on the market. Do you know what games will be in 3 years from now?

EDIT:

RSX is not same as GF7900, it is more powerful. ARE YOU DEVELOPER ?
READ 5 TIMES:
----------
Capcom developer:
In [b]Lost Planet[/b], each character is 10-20K polys. A VS robot is 30-40K polys. A background is about 500K. With shadows and other hidden rendering cost, it's about [b]3 million[/b] polys per frame.
HS developer:
Different platforms require different care, would not be surprised if ppl working on 360 and suddenly dropping their datasets onto RSX would not observe good numbers (and viceversa)
Now..I can't see how RSX, if used in the right way, should be so limited at vertex processing: in HS we easily render 2-2.5 MTriangles per frame at 30 fps without being VS limited and without making any use of CELL to speed up vertex shading and I know for sure that being more clever we could even go faster..[b](just using the GPU)[/b]

The numbers quoted about HS are slighty wrong..cause a few days a go I realized there's a bug in the code that computes the triangle count: in some cases it's more close to [b]3M triangles[/b] per frame mark than 2M.
----------
ONLY RSX by itself IS MORE POWERFUL then x360 GPU+CPU. Do you understand that ???
what PC technology ?? -> GAME DEVELOPER SAID, THAT CELL IS EXTREMLY POWERFUL!

p.s. 1 PPU in Cell is already doing 2 THREADS. Go LEARN some stuff.

EDIT2:

why do you care so much about 4D or 120Fps ? You get this very personal to yourself, like if you would be fooled. You don`t even have ps3(most likely). So why do you care about 4D and 120Fps?
And again, do you know how will look PS3 games after 3 years? NO. So SHUT UP MORON.

[Bloodmask]

EH Crazzyman. Once again, the graphics card in the PS3 is crap, it cost 200 bucks at best buy....it is over a yr old I have one sitting in my pile of old PC parts(Nvidia 7900gs)..... and outdated..........The 360 one is not even out on the market yet...IT DOESNT MATTER...how fast the SPUs are because there are only two threads for them to go through. You could have 5 million SPUS pumping out data at a million gigaherts a second but all of them can only go through two threads{one core) which equals......bottleneck
That is why all the developers only use 2 SPUs, bc thats all they can use at one time....limited bc of two threads...........duh
You are a moron who knows nothing about technology, ask any PC owner about graphics cards...and the cell processor.....Go look at any high end gaming PC....they dont use the cell processor and they never will....because it is crap for gaming.....and am I really suppsed to believe what Sony first parties say..........Um NO bc I have a mind with the ability to think....Am I supposed to believe KEN Kutaragi about 120 FPS, or 4D.......I mean 4d is pretty cool Michael J Fox used it in back to the future....I am a true gamer, I go based on what I see not what I am promised. Im still waiting on those TOY STORY quality visuals on PS2 from the Emotion Engine.....I even said Sony makes good games. Unlike yourself I know about electronics......I'm not just a fanboy who bases fact on what I read off the internet. ANd on top of it all I do have a PS3, 360 as well as a PC.

By the way crazzyman I saw on a previous post of yours that it wasn't proved that the PS3 couldn't do 4D yet. You do realize that 4D is time...SO are you saying that the PS3 could have the ability to perform time travel...it just hasn't been proven yet... That is about the most hilarious thing I have seen on N4G...So I do thank you for proving to the gaming community how credible your intellect is.

[gunnar2906]

Do u really believe in everything MS tells you about its hardware?
If you are not a fanboy and read inet please explain me something.

1. Berkley university tells us about 218 GFlops of Cell only in common purposes tasks and MS declares only 116 GFlops of Xenon power.
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/...
What bottle neck are u talking about? If u read internet dont read crap sites ... try to find a serious ones to be well informed
2. If Ati had a superpowerfull chip at the Fall 2005 what is the reason for ATI to let NVidia dominate with its 8800 chip over X1950 already half year loosing money everyday? When ATI anounced X2000 series many Xbots got the sentance wrong ... It was said that X2000 will continue Xenos architecture idea" Noone said "IT IS XENOS FOR PC!" NO! Cuz Xenos is slightly modified and badly overclocked X1800-X1900 chipset. And Xenos is just a good sound for xbots ears

----------------------------- ------------------------------ - -------------------------
to your answer

sources of informationn on every step please ... I need to be sure the inf oyou put here is corrent

Error in calculation:
1.
RSX
Maximum triangles calculated per second 8 vertex pipelines * 550MHZ (confirmed by Sony) /4 coordinates /3 points = 366 mil of tringles per second
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
Xenos = 550 mil trinangles per second
http://www.xbox.com/en-AU/s...
the main question is if Xenon is capable to calculate so big number of vertexes' coordinates having only 116GFlops power? If you are skilled with rendering you must know that it is CPU that is responsible for coordinates calculations
if we have minimum 40-ticks long FP operation for a coordinate and we need to calculate 4 of them that means we got 480 ticks per triangle (mininmum) .. We got 3.2GHz*3cores/60 fps ~ 160 mill ticks per a frame and 550/60 9 mill of triangles. That means that 160/480 = 334 000 triangles per frame or only 20 million per second of "really calculated" (I mean not shaders or 3-d texturized) triangles.
That explains why X360 picture is so unsharp. Antialiasing capabilities of Xenos are urged to compensate this issue.

Anyway is 366 is a third part of 550? =)

Now the main - the bandwidth of inner memory - you told it is only 16Mbs. Here is the problem - the lack of your attention...
All Cell units and memory are interconnected with 128 bit Element interconnect bus.
IBM wrotes - "Each unit on the EIB can simultaneously send and receive 16B of data every bus cycle." Take a look - PER CYCLE. The maximum data bandwidth of the entire EIB is limited by the maximum rate at which addresses are snooped across all units in the system, which is one per bus cycle. Since each snooped address request can potentially transfer up to 128B, the theoretical peak data bandwidth on the EIB at 3.2 GHz is 128Bx1.6 GHz = 204.8 GB/s.

or I'm misunderstanding you - what do you mean talking about local memory? Cash?
Ok a few words of local memory Every SPE has 256KB of local memory .. But considering that this memory acts like a cash memory for normal desktop poccessors is a wrong point. It is not used many times during a program execution - once programmed for a single task (f.i. sound handling) it uses the program loaded in local memory. I didnt find any data regarding local memory speed but it doesnt seem to be a crucal for the common performance of Cell processor even with so low writing (4Gbs) rate. I see no need to read from local memory cuz it contains preprogrammed SPE routines. What is the use of reading the data you already know? Anyway It is like EEPROM memory but times faster. Local memory is the way why SPE is called a "software" processor. Unlike common purposes processors the performance of CELL can be increased dramatically while using SPE routines making all every of SPE a didicated processor for any specific task. All intercommunication with SPE, PPE and main memory is performed by means of MFC that works at rates I wrote above.
Thus when the purpose and mechanics of local memory is explained it is srather strange to consider low writing/reading rates of local memory to be a "bottleneck" of PS3 =)

[Bloodmask]

Then came the horrible news, RSX appears to be limited to setting up 275 Million triangles/second, anemic compared to the 500+ million in XBox360. When asked about this apparent thumping dished out by MS, the reply from one notable ISV relations boffin was a terse 'What a Piece of Junk'. Talk about a steak in the heart.

Half the triangle setup capability in the PS3, could things get worse? Yes, far far worse, how about another disparity of three orders of magnitude? No, I am not joking, looking at Sony's own figures, Cell appears to be pretty badly broken.

For main memory, it looks like Cell has about 25GBps of main memory bandwidth, and RSX is about 15-20GBps. Achievable bandwidth is between about two thirds of that and nearly 100%, clearly the elves in the caves surrounding Rambus central did something right with XDR. That is the happy news.

For local memory, the measured vs theoretical bandwidth is missing, I wonder why? RSX is at a solid 22.4GBps for both read and write, good job there green team. Then comes the blue team with Cell. Local memory write is about 4GBps, 40% of the next slowest bandwidth there. Then comes the bomb from hell, the Cell local memory read bandwidth is a stunning 16MBps, note that is a capital M to connote Mega vs a capital G to connote Giga. This is a three order of magnitude oopsie, and it is an oopsie, as Sony put it "(no, this isn't a typo...)".

If you can write at 250x the read speed, it makes Cell local memory just about useless. That means you do all your work out of main memory, and the whole point of local is, well, pointless. This can lead to contention issues for the main memory bus, and all sorts of nightmarish to debug performance problems. Basically, if this Sony presentation to PS3 devs shown to us is correct, it looks like PS3 will be hobbled in a serious way.

The next slide goes on to say "Don't read from local memory, but write to main memory with RSX(tm) and read it from there instead", and repeats the table numbers. This is very very bad. The number of times the presentation goes on to say that it is correct, and the lack of anything like "this will be fixed by production steppings, so take measures X, Y and Z" say to me that it is not a fixable snafu. Remember at E3 when I said that the PS3 demos there were object sparse? Any guesses why?

Someone screwed up so badly it looks like it will relegate the console to second place behind the 360. All the devs I talked to were lukewarm on the 360 architecture but universally negative on the PS3. Revelations like this go a long way to explain why you keep hearing about simmering problems from the Sony devs.

You end up with a console with half the triangle setup rate of the 360, a crippled CPU that is impossible to program, and tools that are atrocious compared to the 360. To make matters worse, you have an arrogant set of execs telling us that twice the price is worth it for half the power, a year late. If it isn't already too late, Sony had better do something about this recto-cranial inversion or it may very well sink the console. µ

See it doesn't matter how fast anything is it's all about bandwith, you can't suck 6 threads of information through a 2 thread straw. The cell processor is brilliant when it comes to multimedia functions, or streaming for HD movies through the SPUs, but for gaming it is pretty craptastic...