This Is Why DiRT 2 PC Was Delayed

Codemasters trotted out the PC version of Colin McRae: DiRT 2 today at the Windows 7 launch in New York, showing off the snazzy DirectX 11 features the game was delayed for.

[Kakkoii]

Very nice to see a PC version of a multi-plat done right. They're taking full advantage of all the DX11 features. Tessellation, DirectCompute & Multi-threading will really help a games performance.

[LinuxGuru]

The console versions have the water tesselation.

Cloth and crowd tesselation? Not really important unless you are obsessed with looking at people and waving flags while driving. (and with Dirt 2...you are WAY too occupied with the road, trust me)

The HDR lighting looks great on consoles too...so I don't really see any super awesome DX11 advantages here that would make console owners get it on PC instead.

[Kakkoii]

It wasn't talking about HDR when it said "Enhanced lighting & Post Processing". HDR lighting has been around for quite some time lol. It's talking about the improved lighting effects of SM 5.0 and increased performance of post processing effects.

And where exactly did you get your info about the 360 version having water tessellation? Searching brings me no results about that. Yes the 360 GPU supports some tessellation features, but not the full feature set DX11 uses. And there's been no news I can find about Dirt 2 utilizing the tessellation features on ATI's GPU. It can't be utilized through DirectX, it has to be coded in on the side. Mass Effect used it for example though.

[free2game365]

"The console versions have the water tesselation. "
no they don't, it's not possible with DX9 or the custom version of OpenGL the PS3 uses, it just isn't

[LinuxGuru]

Then how come when I drive through the water on the console versions, it looks exactly the same as it did in that video? Same 3D water, same ripples, same everything...I examined it in slow-mo replay on 360 and PS3.

[X_L]

just another console fanboy.

[LinuxGuru]

Console fanboy? lol You don't have any clue about who I am. I have a PC with Windows 7, 22 Steam games (Steam ID WhitePanther06), and a PS3 with 35 PSN games and 6 retail games.

I walk in both worlds. And I'll be dual-booting Ubuntu 9.10 in a few days when it releases.

I just call it like I see it. I play devil's advocate when it comes to this kinda stuff. Why bother with the PC version on a game like Dirt 2? That's all I'm saying. How much more noticeable will DX11 differences be while driving a car at 150mph than they would be while say...playing an FPS?

http://bayimg.com/oAeKDAACI

[LinuxGuru]

Guys think you're super-smart, no?

Tessellation is too possible on consoles, the Phyre Engine uses it for geometry:

http://www.technology.scee....

While the RSX doesn't have hardware tessellation capability, it is done on the SPUs.

[dirthurts]

does have limited tessellation ability. But it's not on par with what DX11 is utilizing.

[Kakkoii]

@LinuxGuru:

That tessellation the cell processor. The PS3's GPU isn't capable of it though. The 360's is. But still, the tessellation they use isn't the same as the one in DX11. It's not dynamic, it can't be used for things like water. Terrain is fine.

And again, this isn't just about how the game looks. But how well computers will be able to run it due to the optimizations. The multi-threading part of DX11 can be utilized by DX9 and up GPU's.

[evrfighter]

The 360 does indeed have some form of tessellation support. However It's nowhere near as optimized as dx11 however

And also I've been around long enough to know that LinuxGuru has a pc. But is a console fanboy.

[LinuxGuru]

I spend far more time on my PC than I do on my PS3.

For overall purposes including gaming, I do spend more time on my PC.

My PS3 gets play time maybe an hour or two a day.

If I have a choice between a game on PC and PS3...I'll most likely pick it up on PC because of better graphics and physics.

In fact, all the games I own on PS3 are exclusives, besides World at War. (I rented Dirt 2)

So you couldn't really say I'm a console fanboy. I just don't like seeing console hardware get discredited as incapable or what not, when it's perfectly capable of producing games that have many of the same tech features as their PC brethren. Sometimes even more (albeit at lower resolutions most of the time).

My favorite games are CounterStrike Source, Day of Defeat Source, Left4Dead, HL2 Deathmatch, HL2, and Dark Messiah Might & Magic.

[Kakkoii]

@LinuxGuru: Most people do, since PC's are used for so much in our lives now.
(Just saying this as a general statement, not a rebuttal.)

[y0haN]

Lol LinuxGuru why did you blur out things like RAM amount and OS type..

[LinuxGuru]

Because I don't need comments from the peanut gallery on that stuff.

Those details are on a need-to-know basis, and you don't really need to know the details of my machine =)

[y0haN]

I know it's a laptop.. :P

[Major_Tom]

Lol Kakkoii. OPENGL VS. Actual DX technology bud.

[LinuxGuru]

Yep, the 1400 x 1050 probably gave that away, eh? =P

Or rather, the battery charge icon in the sys tray lol

[champ21]

day 1 purchase imo

[Perjoss]

It's like dx10 all over again, its just not worth it. I cant wait to see the next 'Halo2' (only playable on vista) only to see people hack it almost immediately to run on older operating systems.

[TheIneffableBob]

Battleforge and Call of Pripyat see around a 5 FPS improvement in DX11 over DX10. The quality of the shadows are also improved, and this is through a simple port.

Sounds worth it to me.

[badz149]

...and it's worth moving from Vista to 7? ok...I think I've seen enough

[TheIneffableBob]

Vista can use DX11.

[DiffusionE]

This was why we had to wait? Screw that. I don't see any significant improvements over conventional DX9 or DX10 features. Why can't devs just be honest and say they delayed it to prevent loss of sales due to piracy?

[Kakkoii]

It's not about what your seeing, but the performance of what your seeing. If they didn't implement DX11, trying to do this kind of detail with DX9/10 would make this game run epicly slow on your computer.

[DiffusionE]

Yeah, sure. A new API = better hardware performance, right? Unfortunately, it didn't quite work out that way for DX10. And knowing Microsoft, it probably won't for DX11 as well. Don't get me wrong, I want it to work. But so far, the margins are much too small to be considered a success.

[Kakkoii]

Uh no.. If you go take a read about what features implemented in DX11, you'll know why it's increased performance. Just because DX10 was fail, is no reason to automatically discredit any future versions.

This recently submitted article/interview covers it pretty well for the average person to understand:

http://n4g.com/pc/News-4152...

Let's say I have a DX10 scene with highly detailed models, and a DX11 scene with the same detailed models, but their detail is created using Tessellation. Well the DX11 scene is going to run much faster due to the way tessellation works, using small equations to subdivide the mesh and displace it using something similar to a bump map called a displacement map.

Then there's the fact DX11 makes multi-threading a lot of the game pretty easy. And DX9 and up GPU's can utilize this part of DX11, because it's purely on the software side. Most games so far usually only utilize 1 thread of your CPU, or 2 for the rare games. It's been very hard for developers to multi-thread their games.

Then there's DirectCompute which can be used to run post processing effects and other general purpose code that the CPU would usually do. Things like particle effects which are highly parallel put a lot of stress on the CPU, and can be done a lot faster on your GPU.

[evrfighter]

compare dx10.1 to dx10. Dx11 is built upon 10.1.

10.1 destroyed 10 in benchmarks.

[Kakkoii]

10.1 didn't really implement much that would increase performance..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[evrfighter]

how about citing actual tests like this

"Depending on settings, 3870's should see 9 to 25% (in avg/min/max FPS) performance increase in Assassin's Creed with SP1 (and thus, DX10.1)

DX10.1 support in the game seems to be only sensible reason for this kinda difference happening just from installing SP1, when you're comparing cards based on same architecture, but one supporting and one not supporting DX10.1

Also, on one of the pages, they show that there's some AA benefits on HD3800-series with SP1 compared to without SP1 and 2900 with/without SP1"

" http://www.yougamers.com/fo...

[Major_Tom]

"If you read about the features..."

"Theoretically"

Starting to sound like a broken record kakkoii.

[Kakkoii]

@Major_Tom: Your ignorance and stupidity knows no bounds.

Is Multi-threading theoretical? No. It's just multi-threading dumbass!

Is general purpose computing theoretical? No. It depends on what's being computed.

Is tessellation performance theoretical? No. Performance is dependent on level of tessellation. Using tessellation to achieve high detail instead of a high detail mesh itself will run faster. This is not theo-f*cking-retical. We've known this for years, from ATI's efforts to implement Tessellation and their developers tools that have allowed for playing around with that feature. And many professional modeling tools have tessellation features, run on the CPU of course.

So shut the f*ck up with that. Your really getting on my nerves. Your acting as if DirectX 11 is purely a white paper so far. When it's not. The damn SDK is out, there is even a patched DX11 game called Battleforge. With the SDK you can test tessellation and DirectCompute performance.

If you have something actually useful to say on the subject, or at least something to defend your view with, then say it. If not then shut the hell up.

[Major_Tom]

Lol you keep talking out your ass, and I'm not seeing results.
Really, you're just a microsoft//nvidia fanboy and you're so blinded by it, it's laughable.

It took awhile to see your agenda but in the end you're just like the rest of these poor saps.

Good luck with your paper dragons.

[Kakkoii]

@Major_Tom:

Yet again, a post with no substance.

How about instead of making remarks towards me each time, you actually say something meaningful, as currently you just sound like a troll. I have no idea what parts of my posts your even disagreeing with. Why the hell do you think DirectX 11 is a paper dragon when it's already freaking out! You seem to be acting like you know it all, but your not saying anything to back that up. It seems like your just trying to push my buttons.

So again, either start saying something useful that we can have a conversation about, or just shut up. Say in detail what parts of DX11 you think I'm wrong about.

(Our bubbles are up, so PM me. I want to resolve this childish dispute.)

[FwanK]

Racing game of the year

[dirthurts]

Small improvements, but not bad considering it's more or less a port to DX11. I would like to see a game built ground up for DX11.

[Tony P]

It looks and probably runs nicer, but that was pretty much a given for the PC version. Might please the gfx whores out there, but I don't see the substance personally. I would have rather they added a new mode or exclusive cars & tracks. But hey, at least they worked on something to justify the inevitable PC delay.

[FunkYellowMonkey]

Well i'm glad i didn't get the pc version then! Cos it just as good on consoles! ;)

[BlindBandit]

I will see now DX 10 does & if it run better then DX 10.1, let say 30% faster then i will get a Gaming Laptop with Nvidia Geforce 360 GTX in Q1 2010.

[ambientFLIER]

I like how there's no splash at all when a car flies through water at 50mph...yet when I drive my own car into a puddle at 10mph, it looks like Noah's Arc splitting the ocean in two.

[ambientFLIER]

Why does the water look so fake when the subaru flies through it? Have any of you ever driven through a puddle at high speed? It sure as hell doesn't make a little slow wave...