Brink dev: Analogue sticks 'a poor man's mouse'

Analogue stick controls are "a poor man's mouse", the creative director of upcoming Xbox 360, PS3 and PC first-person shooter Brink has said.

In an interview with VideoGamer.com, Splash Damage creative director Richard 'Rahdo' Ham leant his weight to the case for the PC in the age-old argument over which control scheme is best for first-person shooters.

He said: "No matter how hard we work on it to make the perfect analogue stick controls - and as an aside we have got really good analogue stick controls - it is a poor man's mouse at the end of the day."

[hay]

I think it's kinda BS. Anyone remember their start with mouse controling their first computer? It was tough, kinda awkward, the mouse didn't go where we wanted. It took some time to get used to it, dozens of games to master it.
And now take into consideration time spent on mouse which we use for pretty much everything, everyday; time spent working on the shroom(analog) and our own mental limits and blockades by repeating ourselves that analog controling is a lot worse than mouse and we'll get results.
Analog is a bit different, bases on different muscles and brain parts which we didn't kinda develop but are developable. All you need it some time, lots of gaming and open mind for learning new stuff.

[SuperM]

Uhm, there is really no way to debate this. The mouse is more accurate period. Not only is it more accurate in the sense of hitting the right pixel, but it is also the only way you can move at whatever speed suits you best. You can go from a very slow to a very quick movement, something that is impossible with an analog stick

[lowcarb]

The mouse is definitely more accurate which is why I prefer analogs. THe controller has triggers and vibration which make you feel like your actually holding a gun. It doesn't make any sense to try and make a realistic game and then give a player super human abilities like turning quick and accuracy we normally wouldn't have lol.

[Ravage27]

Yes the mouse is more accurate but really....so what??

You can't aim that fast in reality and i'm serious when i say it's more fun aiming with analog sticks because of the difficulty. It IS slower but everyone is playing on the same level. Not mentioning it brings more to the gameplay as you actually have to position your sights well and that requires planning.

off-topic: Console gaming is more comfortable than PC gaming :p

[SuperM]

Its certainly not more realistic with a controller. in close combat it often takes a long time to kill someone if you are moving around eachother. In reallife in close combat people would get shot straight away. With a mouse its way easier and thus also more realistic.

Also when aiming with analog sticks your aim is totally straight as if your gun was mounted on a rack or something. When using a mouse it will register every inaccuracy of your hand just as your hand would shake holding a real gun.

Ofcourse it will never be fully realistic unless you are in some kind of virtual booth with an actual gun in your hands.

@ 1.3

You really should position your sight if your playing with a mouse aswell. And if you think its more fun to aim with an analog stick then i assure you that is only because you are more used to it or better at it.

With Analog sticks your aim is really limited, and by that i mean you can only get so good with the aim. And thats because of the lack of accuracy and speed. You will simply never ever be able to aim better with a controller then a skilled PC player can with a mouse. Simply because the control wont allow it. Its physically not possible. And thats why i feel like FPS controls on consoles are very restraining. I know i would be able to do this and this on a PC but i cant on a console thus it limits the gameplay.

[shingo]

if he thinks so, then let's see if they're gonna implement mouse/keyboard support for the ps3 version. if they don't, then they better stfu.

[Whitefox789]

I played Deus Ex on a laptop with a ball mouse it felt so freaking stiff and when I finally switched it to a laser mouse then it was the only time I truly enjoyed it.

[Microsoft Xbox 360]

Statistics show PS3 owners more likely to adapt to any control layout than those who own 360's.

[y0haN]

Statistics show you're all a bunch of morons who try and justify anything to do with consoles.

[djfullshred]

lowcarb - good point on the vibration controllers. Keyboard & mouse is really the most deadly in a FPS with a skilled player, but it is hella fun playing shooting games that have the vibration controllers programmed well. You can feel the machine gun kicking in your hand, which gives you a really immersive feeling in the game.

[Pennywise]

So enable mouse & keyboard support for the PS3.

[TheHater]

I was going to say the same thing.

[Keowrath]

Yeah me too... Beat me to it =p

As a side note, not every game is a FPS (although it seems like it these days) and I'd much rather play any other type of game with analogue sticks than a mouse/keyboard.

[a_squirrel]

ditto....

[mastiffchild]

I feel the exact opposite myself. Just because a mouise is the easiest control for FPS doesn't make it right.

For years I played games like UT and CS on PC using a mouse/keys set up and ALWAYS felt that the guy with either the best(dearest) set up or gaming mouse would have the edge on the next guy. I called it "the arms race" as we struggled to keep topping out our rigs and mouse set ups-and don't hate me for this and just hear me out-what I liked about console gaming online was the likelihood that EVERYONE has the same machine AND more importantly the same controller.

It's a better and fairer test of skill that, as every mouse is different you don't get with PC shooters, it's more egalitarian and even with all the lag switches, cheats and glitchers I think it remains so today.

I know I personally find games easier with a mouse but is that the point?that's like the COD massive who killed KZ2's identity by srying that the controls weren't the same isn't it? If we have to all use the pad thn, for me,. fair enough as noone has an equipment adbvantage. Sure, UT3 on PS3 was fine as you could have mouse enabled games or opt for the fair, everyone uses a pad option but to allow all gamers to use a mouse on copnsoles would transplant the "arms race" and all it's unfairness to the console scene and do we all want that? I'd rather have to "pad" it if I got a fairer game.

Why wouldn't we like to have a fairer, more level playing field? I'm all for consoles not allowing non proprietry controllers myself as I feel as soon as we've all got different controls the guys who can afford the newest and best will have an advantage.

[SupaPlaya]

a lazy dev will find some excuse

[himdeel]

...that the PS3 has the support but the developers don't enable it in their games :( I would love some keyboard mouse support for all FPS games in particular.

[DeadlyFire]

Someone needs to start pitching this to Sony. Support is enabled if some developers would use it. Its up to Sony to push it out there though and so far they have not done so.

[Dead_Cell]

My Online of choice is Resistance 2 due mainly to the players,I'm the kind of person who likes to go against 10 people on a suicide charge without the suicide.
The -only- way I can survive this is through fluid movement,I need to be able to position myself perfectly,blocking lines of fire with there team mates and cover and move around the pack as I'm shooting and I do not get that movement from W/A/S/D. It's arkward. It's cumbersome. It's crap.
Analogs are on a ball and I can rotate strafe and move perfectly as I'm going along and I'm usually able to shoot the front tooth off a Chimeara at 500 paces so I wouldn't dream of swapping for the so called added prescision of a mouse.
W/A/S/D is 4 main directions with 4 minor diagonals. Give me an analog any day of the week.

[Raf1k1]

You've got a good point about the WASD keys.

The best controls for FPS would be a nunchuk style of device for movement (which I would definitely buy if there was such a thing for PC) with extra buttons and a mouse. I can't think of anything beating that.

[Oner]

I love me some console controller action and all.....but to say using WASD on a keyboard with a mouse is "cumbersome" is downright incorrect. You're using it wrong! LoL ~ but seriously if I could get the kind of dexterity control from a keyboard/mouse using a controller then I would agree, but it's not possible. And this is from someone who at one time wholeheartedly believed a controller was a "better" functional hardware piece for gaming.

After years of CS, AvP, COD and etc. hands down a mouse and keyboard cannot be beat when it comes to accuracy, speed, control-ability, functional settings i.e. binds and more. It's weird though...I don't really want Keyboard and mouse capability on the PS3, but I do...but I don't...but I really do then I say I don't because then it becomes a "PC" like device and not something anyone can just jump on grab a controller and play.

Optional would be the best like Unreal Tournament 3 on the PS3 did ~ http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[Dead_Cell]

You have eight points of solid movement in W/A/S/D with the speed of a mouse.
Two analog sticks give you two 360 degrees of movement.

[Voozi]

You know that you also use the mouse to help with movement too...you don't just use WSAD :|

Everything you described I can do on PC easily with WSAD + Mouse. And if you think, that "It's arkward. It's cumbersome. It's crap." then you're obviously doing it wrong, and shouldn't be bashing something just because you're not good at it.

[ChozenWoan]

Give me Left Analog Stick with some buttons and a mouse with some buttons and you get the best of both worlds. Precise aiming with free form movement. Then moving in all 360 directions is fluid and without having to stretch your finger1s 5 miles apart. Add that to the precision and sensitivity of a mouse and you've got the recipe for total pawnage... at least until everyone else does the same.

As for the "Arms Race" in the PC world, Yea it would suck to have that come to PS3. Then again, there are some games that require massive keybindings that I would love to see come to the system. Such as Freespace, Independece War, or even EVE-O (yea I'm a space jockey missing my fix this gen). It would be nice to be able to use my Seitek and keyboard for some space shoot em up or deep exploration. Then the PS3 really would "Do Everything!"

[Oner]

There is no "statistically wrong"...WASD with the freedom to look anywhere with a mouse is without a doubt inherently MORE accurate and fluid.
W - Forward
S - Back
A - Left
D - Right

Mouse - Look around in ANY direction (and quickly I might add)

Any combination to do diagonals WA, WD, SA, SD & 360's is perfectly possible with an additional 10+ keys available around your left hand, all the while looking and aiming with a Mouse in ANY direction instantaneously. Look I am not saying a keyboard is better for ALL games (that would be a BS lie) but you cannot say a Keyboard is "cumbersome"...if anything it gives you MORE flexibility to do things faster and quicker.

If you want proof of this go into any UT3 game on PS3 and compare kills, streaks, accuracy and speed in K/M games vs Controller games and you will see.

[Pizzagaki]

Um... when playing multi's on my pc i often hook my 360 controller to my pc.

Then play trough tvout on my plasma.
How does that make my anologue a poor mans mouse ?

[tdrules]

poor mans as in experience not price.
you have to realise, the sensitivity of a good 35 quid razer mouse will always be higher and more accurate than a controller.

[Fishy Fingers]

You basically just described the FragFX controller. Google it, you might like what you see.

Edit: sorry reply was meant for comment above (3.1)

[dredgewalker]

I guess its all down to what you are used to and im used to both the mouse and analogue sticks but saying the analogue sticks are a poor mans mouse is way off.

[ballsofsteel]

does it really make that much of a difference really? i play alot of PC FPS's (still play CSS a hell of a lot) and i don't really care. yes the stick provide less precision and accuracy than a mouse but controllers and consoles are generally more comfortable and a relaxing experience both are great and each have their strength and weaknesses people who say that sticks are "UTTER CRAP" compared to a mouse are just PC elitists that take PC gaming a little too seriously

[Horny]

yup, or they just suck at using controllers and have to find a reason to b!tch. Im comfortable using both. I put my controller sensitivity all the way on every game, I used to play crisis with a 360 controller and Im sure those people using the mouse and keyboard getting owned didnt think I used a controller. While the mouse is precise everything turns into a twitch contest.

[Sarcasm]

That's like saying a Car's a poor man's truck.

They're both vehicles to get you to where you want to go, but people have their preferences on which one they want to use.

And they each have their own different uses.

The KB and Mouse is great for FPSs, but you wouldn't see anyone trying to play a fighting game with it. Thus, you have a controller or even a fight stick.

[dirthurts]

And I use my 360 controller when I play most pc games anyway...so what gives?
I like having all the buttons right there, and not having to stretch for them.
Maybe if my keyboard had a joystick and triggers for my left hand, and a mouse with buttons for my right hand...that would be sweet!

But I think I would still use my ol game pad.

[Gamer1111]

360 analogs are better than the ps3 controller.

but i agree put key board and mouse support for ps3 and add that with so socom or K2....there would be a onslaught

ps3 or 360 /valve/NEW counterstrike..keyboard support.....game over

[table]

360 v ps3 controller is very subjective even more so than the argument of mouse/keyboard over analogue sticks. I personally prefer the ps3 analogue sticks over 360 because for me they are more accurate but I can accept for others the 360 is better.

I think it comes down to the game you are playing with mouse v analogue. Killzone2 is great with a controller and I don't think it would work with a mouse. On the other hand HL2 is incredible with the mouse and poor with the controller. Again, it's all very subjective.

[Gamer1111]

i completely its all down to personal preference. sad i get 4 disagrees for my opinion when i own both systems just like you.

[table]

I don't actually own a 360 but I really want one for great games coming up like Splinter Cell, Alan Wake, Forza3 and Mass Effect 2. I get my 360 fix at a mates house at the moment :) I wouldn't worry about the disagrees mate.

[Horny]

I too own both systems with call of duty for both of them. I gotta say the PS3 controller is a bit more precise and I feel like I move faster.
I play with the sensitivity all the way up, the ps3 controller is one of the best fps controllers but that is only after u spend a lot of time with it and get used to it. The triggers are much better on the 360 on the ps3 i stick R1 L1 instead of the triggers to shoot.

[Pandamobile]

Lol. Counter Strike on a 360 or PS3 would be horrible.

[Gamer_Politics]

well i like using the controller for my shooters.

[topgeareasy]

so a mouse is a poor man Analogue sticks

[Alcon Caper]

Misses the point on a first post. Bravo.

[Baka-akaB]

The argument doesnt hold any water with any current fps so far .

It did matter when fps where high precision and skill based stuff like old quake 1-3 and unreal 1 and tournament games .

But with low requirement stuff like Cod and equivalent , with their often automatic weapon , and a gameplay that is more strategic placement and squad tactics based rather than sharpshooting and acrobatic skills based... i dont see how one can so easily claims that Key+mouse are a better combo .

It would have been in the likes of quake 2 , but there are hardly equivalent games anymore .

And like mentioned above , the pc combo is only good for fps

[Tony P]

Because the mouse is faster and more accurate with less work. Fast and accurate is what you need in a FPS no matter how much strategy it requires. You'll always have to shoot something.

I thought this was settled with Shadowrun. The game had to be heavily gimped to account for how much faster a PC player could aim with his mouse than a 360 player with his controller.

[Baka-akaB]

I strongly disagree here , i'm myself more a fan of mouse+keyboard , but the nature of current games made their differences quite irrelevant .

If the game is loose and forgiving like so many current games , especially those with automatic weapons , it doesnt really matter who more precise . The extra precision brought by the mouse becomes then a confort thing , and mostly useless here and hardly required .

And it wont be really faster when it comes to rushing and shotgun like in many kz or cod situation . it would have been important if in a game like quake , where the guy would try and even succeed at evading said shotgun shot , with acrobatic feats .

[Tony P]

Ok. So I'm right. Except in a few cases. Is that what you're saying?

You said at first that the argument doesn't hold water with any current gen game. Admittedly there aren't many cross play titles to choose from. But Shadowrun, which came out in 2007, is a shooter that bridges the gap and the devs had to take extreme measures to make sure the mouse couldn't outperform the controller.

I'm not out to say mouse/keyboard is better overall, but it is quite obviously faster and more accurate at least given that example. I've got nothing against the analogs, but as fast and accurate as a mouse? They just aren't.

[ulath666]

You have NOT seen any high lvl cod 4 players play.
Being able to do an near instantaneous 180 with enough control to still hit an enemy is essential. Just take a look at some fragmovies. Most of the moves they do wouldnt be possible with a controller.
http://www.youtube.com/watc... for example.
This is played on Promod (no perks, balanced weapons and graphic settings that even the playingfield). Awesome movie and awesome players.

In higher lvls of play (true high in pcws/scrims)you need to be able to hit and kill an enemy that appear anywhere on your screen in less time than it would take to even get half-way to the target with a controller.
Competative FPS gaming on consoles is a joke compared to PC gaming...

[PLAYSTATIONGENRATION]

So K & M is not as comfortable but it is more accurate once you get the hang of it.

[koehler83]

I think they both have a purpose. I rather enjoy an analog stick in my left hand and a mouse in my right.

[Silence]

And that is the way it will stay. It's just more comfortable for me. I've got the Analogs mastered.

edit- PLAYSTATIONGENERATION, I see we're on the same page. I posted my comment, looked up and saw yours, and said whoahh...

[PLAYSTATIONGENRATION]

Give me a controller any day.

[Pandamobile]

I grew up with a controller in my hands too.

Then I played Counter Strike and never looked back on console FPS's.

[mrv321]

Well buy fragfx then. Solved.

Also for driving games I prefer anologue same with flying.

[ChozenWoan]

For driving games I have my GT25, for flying games I have my Seitek but I haven't found a flying game on the PS3 that fully supports it. =(

[HDgamer]

Subjective in nature. I like the controller far better than kb and mouse. I just rebought crysis and hooked my 360 controller to the pc. Much better than I played with the mouse and keyboard.

[Horny]

i agree, i owned with the controller, guess both have their advantages. While mouse has better aim the controller has better movement, and I crouch, and jump a lot.

[Dead_Cell]

Is for people who think pointing and clicking equates skill.

[Oner]

Wow...you must have never really played on a PC then to say some BS comment like that (or have no skill, personally I think it is both honestly). Because you would definitely get owned if you could use a controller vs a Key/Mouse combo on just Counter Strike alone.

[Alcon Caper]

XIM for the win.

[Kakihara]

I have a good PC that can run any new game thrown at it but I never buy games for the PC because I hate using the mouse. I can't get into the game while playing with the mouse and keyboard. I feel like I'm surfing for porn or something, not running around a battlefield.

[makingdamage]

It might be. But a mouse is an poor man´s wii mote so what´s he´s point?

[JonnyBigBoss]

It's all a matter of practice. At first, I was REALLY bad at COD4 on PS3 because I wasn't used to using the sticks. After about 2 days I felt I mastered it, and it became second nature. Sure, K&M has some serious benefits but there are benefits to controllers too.

[Kakihara]

A rat is a poor man's mouse.

[KruLLit]

The controls for Metroid 3 was awesome. I hope next gen consoles will have similar controllers.

[NaiNaiNai]

to me Gamepad > mouse.

some times the aiming on PC games is just BS. while it feels nice, having to lift your mouse up and moving it back to turn sucks ass. *BTW most of us don't use aim bots so we can't turn at max settings*

[Obama]

Well you can always change the sensitivity. But anyways both gamepad and mouse have their pros and cons. Gamepad are better suited for action/fighting games while mouse is designed for fps/rts.

[Major_Tom]

that's a crappy mouse you got thar.

[zagibu]

You can't use the statement in general. An analogue stick is a completely different input device than a mouse. The stick moves the pointer in an incremental way, while a mouse's displacement is based on difference to the last position.

In situations where you have to point, a mouse is better. In situations where you have to steer, or a fluid movement with accurate small course corrections is important, an analog stick is better.

In FPS, pointing is king, so a mouse is obviously better suited.

[Pandamobile]

Playing FPS games on a console is like doing the 100m dash in a wheel chair.

[ULTIMATE_REVENGE]

I don't know about you guys but I've always thought that using a mouse for an FPS always made the games feel really unrealistic, I mean when you use a mouse you can swing your 'really heavy gun' left and right at flippin lightning speed which is just absurd.

and how is analogue sticks a poor man's mouse when 99% of gamers wil most likely have a mouse in their homes for their PC's?

This guys lost the plot.

[59]

You are unbelievable. I mean, is this even a real post?

Listen kid, (Im assuming you are a 13 y/o console user.)

Moving your mouse is to emulate moving your head. Do you actually expect developers to make the gun lag out of sight just so you cant "swing your 'really heavy gun' left and right at flippin lightning speed"?

Seriously. You might as well complain about the fact that your gun isnt at your hip (out of sight) until you use iron sights.

Some Dev finally has the balls to admit that the mouse is better than the analog stick & you have to disgrace it by saying something like this?

[Scenarist]

why do people keep on screaming THE MOUSE IS UNREALISTIC OMG 180degree
HEADSHOT!!!!!

OMFG pleaseeee STFU ... In real life i can turn around almost instantly just like with my mouse and i can aim just as efficiently if not more efficient than a mouse. with enough skill and practice i probabaly could turnaround headshot someone at 100 yards with any good rifle ...even if the world classified it as luck when i did it ,,,, the point is it can be done!! and you can only replicate that luck with ... guess what ..... a mouse

[halo2_redvsblue]

Is that why I beat People using the 360 controller on Team Fortress 2, Halo 2 and other games?

[ottoman_239]

Mouse & keyboard suck! controller FTW

[Bizmal]

"Richard 'Rahdo' Ham leant his weight to the case for the PC in the age-old argument over which control scheme is best for first-person shooters"

Who wrote this? There is no argument, anyone who claims the mouse is not simply the best over a controller for FPS just does not know what there talking about. End of story.

[hano]

Funny how some people still argue that analog sticks are better than mouse. Mouse is king for strategy, FPS, RPG..etc.

gamepads are good for sports, fighting, most action games and racing.
The beauty of PC however, you can use whatever control you want, but you can't say the same for console (Yeah I know some PS3 games support mouse, very few).

[djfullshred]

I always like controlling a FPS with a keyboard & mouse, because I was PC gamer for years. But I got this beautiful Panasonic plasma 1080P HDTV, a PS3, surround sound, and comfy couch in my living room - and play with the controller. Poor man? Not at all, haha.