Capcom on SFIV: Sagat and Seth ARE overpowered!

Now, for the first time, Capcom has admitted as much. Speaking to VideoGamer.com, Ryota Niitsuma, assistant producer of the arcade version of the critically-acclaimed fighting game, said Seth and Sagat "might have turned out a little bit stronger than we expected".

[thereapersson]

Well, at least they admit it...

[Rainstorm81]

I use sagat and this IS one of the best versions of sagat on SF since SF alpha. Overpowered? not really hes no stronger than zangief. If anything Ryu and Akuma is underpowered. Ken is the best shotokan fighter on the game.

[Montreafart]

SF4 is broken. The characters are unbalances and spamming the same moves as Sagat will get you incredibly far.

[BLuKhaos]

I think Sagat was pretty good, he kept all those haduken spammers away.

[BlackTar187]

Sagat is so overpowered I have 600 fights maybe more and to say sagat ins't the highest tier character S reserved for cheap players is funny but of course you use him so why would u admit it my brother uses him to and swears he is not cheap. But everyone who doesn't use him says he is lol.

I think he is so cheap because all his moves transitions so fast and he doesn't really have a period where is is open to often although im a blanka player for the last 20yrs so i can get him if i spam a roll and a amazon river run and still think he is cheap.

You can beat both of those character and thats but thats not the point the point is sagat has no refresh time and his Frames on his moves are ridiculous with most taking way to short of Animation time before he can do any other of his moves.

But he is a character use him if you want no problem here if we play online just know most people will automatically put you in a lower skill class if you use him win or lose.

but again i dont lose very often to sagat at all i know how to play him but in a general consensus people think hes cheap so who cares. he's fast he's strong and has no refresh time.

[likedamaster]

...to think Seth is a big deal. Seth is complete garbage both off & online. If you get beat by Seth you need more than just practice, you need stop playing SF altogether.

Seth = Caca

Real Seth from Capcom = Beast

Sagat also has his weaknesses.

[DarkAzureIIIX]

But not Sagat I never felt helpless while fighting a Sagat player like I do when I player against a very good Seth player.

[JCITY]

but he can be beaten...its not that bad but his move takes a lot of life..it could be a kick or a punch..they should tone him down a little

[LittleBigSackBoy]

never had a problem with sagat, but seth was annoying, once you got used to his moves he got alot easier.

[MiloGarret]

Depends on who you play with, if you, like most people online, use ryu, you're not going to feel as disadvantaged as an E.Honda or Guile player. Fact remains, every time you fight Sagat (which is VERY often online since people aren't stupid and choose the most powerful character) you're engaging in an uphill battle, and if you lose it very often feels like it was basically because the other player chose Sagat or Seth.

It's good that they admit it, now do something about it. It may not matter as much to the pros, but for anyone playing at a lower level, the differences are quite noticeable.

I still don't hate Sagat as much as I resent anyone using Ryu, for crying out loud at least TRY someone else, once! Isn't it boring to play mirror matches pretty much all the time? Playin online is becoming really boring considering all I ever fight is Ryu and Sagat. The occasional Chun-li, Dhalsim or fück it, even Seth is a pleasure.

[xXKingofStingXx]

Dunno if you playing on the PS3 but if you are add me n we'll mix it off! I'm always up for a good challange.

[MiloGarret]

I do play on PSN, add me if you like, I'm either playing as Evocks or ASSaultRAPE depending on the occasion. I'm European though, just so you know that if you're american you're probably in for a laggy game...

I'm always down for some practice, I SERIOUSLY need to improve guile, bison, and I've been experimenting with some other none-shoto characters as well.

[devilhunterx]

Crapcom. No more teleportation moves. No more Bosses who rip off other characters' moves.

[Baka-akaB]

uh ?

Seth isnt much of a threat in VS given his HP and really low damages . So he can keep his teleport if he wants .

Bison and Dhalsim should keep it , as it's hardly a winning move and they're hardly the strongest ....
In fact you're in the corner and pressured as a dhalsim , what to do ? teleport ? You're only exchanging sides as you'll most likely appears near the opponent , wich already knows you'll port ...
You're slow , you just ported and cant do much moves fresh out of it ? You'll most likely get thrown or comboed ...

In fact looking at it , you got no valid point against teleport .. and probably dont know wth you're talking about .

[likedamaster]

We learn the technical side of such excellent fighters like SFIV to get better. So when a dumb comment like yours surfaces, we pwn it as if you were a n00b online. Bubbs baka-akaB

[devilhunterx]

Don't know about you babies, but I always play VS games on Full Difficulty against the computer AI.

Old habit from the Street Fighter 2 and KOF series.

Havent even played it online, too busy with Infamous and Killzone 2.

[BYE]

I rarely get beaten by a Seth, he has too low health.

Sagat? Hell yes! He's one of the most annoying characters ever.

[MegaMohsi]

I agree, Seth takes too much damage per attack to be considered overpowered, my 2 overpowered characters would be Sagat and Zangief.

[Natsu X FairyTail]

Sagat is Cheap as hell and Seth is yuckkk.

I have the game on Xbox

Who wants to play against me ?

PM me.

[dericb11]

I did not know the game was on Xbox lol. Didn't it only release in arcades, PS3 and Xbox 360. Read the joke before you hit disagree.

[-MD-]

Why not just reduce their damage a little bit through a patch?

[Baka-akaB]

Seth already got no damage in VS , besides his ultra . But yeah a nerf to Sagat's damage could help mitigate things .

[Shuya]

TIGER, TIGER, TIGER, TIGER, TIGER, TIGER, TIGER .... it is annoying but makes it all the more satisfying when you win against him.

[BYE]

TIGER TIGER TIGER -> when you jump over the tiger -> standing roundhouse -> TAUNT, or if available, ULTRA. Repeat.

That's what 90% of all Sagats play like.

[specialguest]

Sagat may be overpowered, but on the higher competition level, Sagat can be beaten just like any other character. I use Sagat as my main and Dhalsim as secondary and I've noticed that only noobs complain about Sagat.

[Natsu X FairyTail]

Pretty true.

Ryu , Ken , Guile , Chunli , Vegas and Sakura @ times(in my case i use her) are The Most Used from What I've seen.

[Simon_Brezhnev]

lol how u say its noobs when the damn game assistant producer says it. Only people who say Sagat is not cheap is the people who play with him. Well i can beat Sagat but when they play like a fúcking turtle thats pretty cheap.

[monkey nuts]

His hits tend to scrub your hp out pretty fast. On a side note, I got my hori fight stick back today so I decided to fire up SSF2THD in the name of nostalgia and there was a huge 303mb update waiting. Does anyone have any idea what the update is actually for? Thanks in advance, I'm off to have a blast on SFIV with my new stick.

[specialguest]

I know how powerful Sagat is since I play against other Sagats using Dhalsim. Dhalsim does not take damages well, especially by Sagat, but instead of complaining, I take the lost as a learning opportunity to try to figure out a way to overcome it, which I have.

[Baka-akaB]

Seth is hardly a threat , if , and IF someone is able to use is without making mistake , given his arsenal and his ultra , he's unbeatable . But so far it aint happening much .

Sagat however is clearly advantaged because he takes out too much HP be it aggressively or in turtle mode . He's manageable but he's in a tier of his own .

Capcom is a bit hypocrital here , Mago is a famous sagat , is often in the top 3 , yesterday he was again in Nakano's TRF tournament and won .
The 3rd place was also a sagat "Kiai" .

Anyway i'd swap Seth with Rufus in the overpowered list .
I dont see how you can call a character as hard to play and so fragile , in vs as Seth overpowered , just because he is a boss .

Rufus however is almost equivalent to a ryu (with at least an advantage for ryu) and way too easy and cheap .

Anyway it would be "easy" to really balance Sagat , by toning down his damages .

[Simon_Brezhnev]

I dont even play this game anymore since i got blazblue. I know one thing though them high level japanese players play the cheapest well in blazblue atleast.

[Veneno]

Looks beautiful. It looks like what SF4 should've been. Georgouse 2d HD art. such a shame.

[Baka-akaB]

Blazblue doesnt have less depth . it's just different . Except in some characters being cheap in the hand of too many players ( replace Sagat by Arakune v13 or Noel if you want) , but you'll find that in any game

I also still disagree that SF4 doesnt look as it should . The design is good and it retained most of the 2d cartoony sensations .

[SuperSaiyan4]

At SF games but with SF4 I was able to beat it on the hardest difficulty.

[alexdulcianu]

It didn't occur to me that any of them would be overpowered...

[Baka-akaB]

Well a scrubs playing sagat wont likely go really far , but with his advantages and with the proper skills , he can be very hard to beat .

[YoungKingDoran]

sagat wouldve had a hard time in high school with that name... poor sagat.

[xXKingofStingXx]

I been barking up this tree for a while now, its nice to see them finally admit that there is something going on with Sagat. I have no real issue with Seth, he's got a pretty easy pattern if you know what to look for, Sagat on the other hand while he's not unbeatable he is over powered, in 2 combos he can end a round, 1 if he combos in his ultra. Because of this people abuse him online but let me tell you, nothing is more gratifying than destroying a Sagat player with Vega. The spanish assassin FTMFW!

[Midgard228]

i noticed when i first picked him up how cheap he was and stopped using him instantly. became a cammy/viper player

well now i only play blazblue anyway so doesnt matter anymore i guess lol

[Baka-akaB]

my opinion is that yeah he can be cheap , but isnt nearly as great and godly as everyone makes him to be .
Capcom doesnt downplay it for no reason .
He's basic, solid, and easy to play. Easy to get good at but difficult to be GREAT at.

Ok scrubs and noobs would makes more damages by spamming his moves , but it's hardly relevant as scrubs would be dealt with easily anyway .

You'd need first to be a good sagat player for it to matter , as he's still slow . Not to mention there are far better footsies out there like Ryu .

Reversal ? Use it, that is his weakness duh. You can't link mash with Sagat and pull off an Ultra like you would with other characters cancel into a special move etc. You have to TIME it, hence why you see most Sagat players avoid footsies and stick to the quick 1-2s for chip.

The silverlining would be when two good and roughly equal fighters meet with extremely different tiers characters , and even then it's still up to the player in the end . When you're a vega against a sagat , what to do ?

If you corner him by play aggressively vega as you probably should , he could easily be deadmeat ... however he could instead , as a good and smart player , force you into the air , and punish the hell out of you . That ok is harsh ...

But if Sagat has you , vega , in the corner, and continuously presses on with cLPxxLKTiger Knee with no room to breath. What do you do?
Block the knee and reverse throw him into the corner .It's not 100%, but anticipate the knee and do it right after. Your move should
take priority. Make sure you block low then block high, then throw

Or you can jump over him, grab him, block again, stand up before the knee hits so it hits deep and you can effectively grab him, jump off the wall, or block standing and immediatly press down + lk, or if you know he throws TU then flip(make sure you time it) or block followed by a punish.

There are quite a lot of possibilities that people dont even bother with .
Too many scrubs , just go "meh sagat is far too overpowered"

Here as a vega the guy i'd really fear are good el fuerte or giefs ... and i aint even that great of a player

[samura]

but I think that most of you guys aren't hardcore fans of SF.
Yes, he can be annoying, but, so can every other character in the right player's hands.

I don't have any problem with the balancing. I used to complain about Sagat, Gouken and Cammy, but not anymore.

Especially after I invested 100s of hours on the game.

Amethyst players will complain about anything.
Experienced players will try to solve the problem rather than complain about it.

This reminds me of people complaining about Chun Li and Yun. Watch some Japanese pros like Daigo and Nuki, and you will see how wrong you were.

[Baka-akaB]

Agreed , wich is why capcom wont probably touch Sagat , before a new game .

Hell i remember everyone calling el fuerte and honda crap at first ... but look now .. Honda is suddenly moving up in tiers (thought a bit dubious imo) , and El fuerte are rising up too .

i'm more annoyed by guys like rufus (because imo he's too easy to play given everything he can do ) or Giefs with moves that annoys so many close combat fighters .

hell i remember clowns rage quitting because i main Gouken . Wich is silly given the huge flaws and weaknesses in Gouken ...

Anyway dont be ashamed if you play a sagat , becomes good with it , and laugh at the fools claiming "it's easy and they'd do the same if they were a lowlife like you" . Chances are they actually tried lured by the "sagat is easy" rep , failed hard and went back to ken or whatever

[samura]

Character in SF is Ryu 2nd is Abel 3rd is Akuma.
Third Strike: Ryu, Yang and Akuma.

Guilty Gear X: Chipp.
BlazBlue (: Ragna, Jin and Hakumen.

[Baka-akaB]

I fell behind for various reasons (like learning all over again the stick) but i play Gouken , Bison , Gen , and recently started Vega , since i love playing unloved kids :p .

Blazblue , i'm still a beginner , but i play hakumen , Carl Clover and Bang . (yes i'm starting with an horribly steep learning curve :p)

[Dark General]

I personally say that "A SF without a powerful Sagat isn't a true SF" which is why I LOVE 3rd Strike *Laughs*. Seriously though Sagat is the best character in pretty much every SF game he appears in, SF4 is no different. My main gripe with him really isn't his Tiger Knee lockdown or how much damage he outputs. It's his 1100 health, I deal with it though. This is coming from someone who mains Rose and alternate is El Fuerte. It just so happens I'm used to uphill battles.

I hardly play against good Rufus's though. Usually just the crouching "fat ball" rufus's or the ones that only jumps to try and get in on my Rose. You can usually zone Rufus's specially if your your character has a good reaching standing Fierce or HK.

I don't have Blazblue yet but I'am looking forward to KoF12.

[Veneno]

The characters in SF have double the amount of moves than the ones in BB due to the EX moves/cancels. There's also more characters. I know it's still very early on, but people on BB use the same maneuvers and combos throughout the whole fight. The EX/super combo/ultra combo system in SF makes the fight dynamic from beginning to end. Although I'm overall disappointed in SF4, the EX system is a real breakthrough.

[Baka-akaB]

Wrong again . Even though i prefer SF4 and KOF XII , I dunno how you get away with such claims . With that kind of look at early sf4 and even still now , it would be easy to claim people do the same moves over and over with Ken/Ryu .

Cancels ? BB' systeme is different but still there with normal cancels , rapid cancel , dash cancels , jump cancels , air dashs , instant air dashes ..
You got the usual chain links and the revolver action linking system .

SF4 got focus attack (wich i btw loves so much more than parry) ? Well BB got Barrier Burst that stop most pressure strings and comobo by pressing 3 buttons and the proper amount of barrier gauge

The advance input that let you repeat a button for a limited amount of frames by holding it ...

Obviously like every games throws but with a few subtleties like attack throw espace , recover throw espace , barrier throw escape , wake up throw espace

throw in as well Clashes , the attributes on various attacks and characters for Head , foot and body .. (examples ? Jin → + B, which has foot attribute invincibility. Since crouching jabs generally have foot attribute only, those attack always lose to Jin's → + B. Then Carl's ↓↘→ + B has head and body attribute invincibility. Thus he can travel through most standing attacks with ease. )

You also got safeguards for the game's balance like Combo damage mitigation , mostly to kill infinite and put their damages down to 0hp , when it works .
The negative penalty to punish turtling and leaves you with doubled damages till you go positive .

And at least FOUR types of ground recovery beyond wake up techniques and air recovery .

More moves ? EX arent in most case a new move , and "merely a new setting for existing moves. And the SF4's move list isnt any longer . A quarter of the command list screen is taken by universal stuff as basic throws .

The rest is a quite trimmed down 5-6 special moves list with one super and one ultra in most case . With exceptions such as Gen with his moves changing with stances

And so what if SF4 got more characters ? Even with GG recycling of some characters , BB's one are indeed quite varied and helluva different from each others .

[JD_Shadow]

How about fixing the AI's Zangief. Now THAT'S an overpowered fighter (Spinning Piledriver here, a SPD there...that's all he ever tries to do, he's got HUGE reach, he always seems to know when to go for it, and it takes a LOT of life from you). Those that play fighters without projectile moves are at SUCH a disadvantage when facing him.

[Gamer_Politics]

SF4 has alot of faults it feels like some cheap arcade fighting game....where all the patches?

[ThePistolWhippedDog]

Seth can take all these new characters with him too because they dont even suit the SF universe. Give me a SNES & SF2 Turbo back when SF was good.

[A LIVING LEGEND]

LOL,but doesn't Seth in fact posses a "move" that sends you to Dragonball-Z and simultaneously erases all memory of Rufus,T-Hawk,Abel etc......NO? unfortunate indeed.
New Ryu meet old Ryu,one of these things just doesn't belong.Sagat overpowered? hell no,all Sagat players agree,he is perfectly balanced.
Guile was once my favorite character,once being key.SF2 Turbo you say? you mean that balanced,fun,technically sound SF of years past? tell me more about this "Turbo" ..............=)

[ultimolu]

I agree. :|

[TheDeadMetalhead]

I always thought that Abel and Zangief were the overpowered ones. Or at least they're the cheapest ones (throw you to the ground, repeat).

It's still one of the best games of 2009. =D

[Gun_Senshi]

For saying this and saying how Sagat was OP since Launch. I was called noobs but I been playing fighters before you was born. I remember SF 1, where Ken and Ryu where head swap and Sagat was final boss.

SFIV is the worse SF ever made and insult to fighting game genre gamers. BlazBlue is the best one this gen.

[Baka-akaB]

I remember you telling proudly that you got rid of the game after one week , so yeah people should disregard your comments about the game like they did .

What Capcom is saying is quite unlike some "sf4 is the suk" clan have been actually claiming , and pretty much what many hardcore sf4 players have been telling you all along : he got advantages but isnt the god you guys makes him to be , nor really that easy to actually master .

Remembering past sf titles doesnt mean squat about your actual level in it , you could be yeah good or a scrubs that went through the ages for all we know (no offense ).

Most of all , if you remember past SF titles , then yeah you should know that Sagat was actually even more powerful , most time he appeared , than in SF4 .

I really dont mean to be harsh or belittle you , but i just can't give any credit to comments about a fighting game you admittely gave up after a week , that's all .

And as a fellow BB player , i havent caught you yet complaining about the same tier situation in the game .
Especially with A nu (v13) is the same situation as Seth , powerful but with low HP . Or all around very efficient top tiers guys like Arakune and rachel

PS : i've also seems some other people's comments about sf2 and turbo in the thread . And wow dont they see through rosy colored glasses ... Sagat was the "de facto Ryu/ken killer" then . Harder to master than both then , but pretty much their king once you did .

[xHx_ALUCARD_xHx]

i don't care if their strong because i always take them down with CAMMY. CAMMY n Ken are my winning duo

[Athlon]

Is anyone having trouble trying to play online matches with Street Fighter IV on PS3? I've never had any issues before, but I couldn't find a single game when I was playing online yesterday. Were the servers down for maintenance?

[Shendow]

Sagat is alittle over powerful, I mean how many times can you count how many times he says "Tiger!!!" -_- I mean you can really get close to him because all he does is Tiger this an Tiger that. He doesn't really do any moves other they his Tiger ones and Seth -_- I get sick off kicking his butt an next thing you know it he grabs you or does his dark hole thing as for get to do a finishing move on him. So they both are a pain in the butt, play it on easy an notthing really changes much on Seth and Sagat.

But if you good with Ken, Ryu or a characters that does a attack that isn't a meele attack, they mostly win all the time.

[cokzilla23]

anybody that wants to get beatdown by akuma, holla at me if you have a ps3: cokzilla23

[A LIVING LEGEND]

Sagat was no such 'defacto' killer in previous,albeit more balanced SF games.Ryu,played with patience(STRESS PATIENCE) and skill was easily a match for any Sagat guru,and if all else failed,a skillful Guile could work wonders.Sagat then was reach+damage-counters and combos,Sagat now is reach+damage+quick recovery times+decent combos-unpredictability.Zangie f is a niche character,easy power moves but susceptible to deliberate ranged play.Ken,while lacking any real weakness, exhibits no real strength,a middle ground if you will.Sagat in SF4 is overpowered,only slightly but enough that certain considerations must be exercised when facing him,more than any other character.That is wrong.

[PotNoodle]

Sagat is, not sure about seth, no one ever uses him online :p