Demon's Souls is an Extremely Niche Game

Andrew Weymes of The Nightly Gamer writes: "The Playstation 3 certainly has an impressive library of games but one problem it has had since launch is a very limited RPG line-up. Compared to the Xbox 360, the Playstation 3 doesn't have many RPGs that appeal to the broad audience that Mass Effect or Star Ocean: The Last Hope does. Instead, the Playstation 3 has been home to a couple of exclusive niche titles such as Disgaea 3 and Valkyria Chronicles. Adding to the trend of niche titles on the PS3 is Demon's Souls by From Software. It's certainly an enjoyable game but it's doubtful that it's going to appeal to average gamers or even casual RPG fans. After playing through several hours of Demon's Souls, The Nightly Gamer has formed an opinion on the anticipated PS3 exclusive."

[Chris399]

That game was golden, according to your standards. By the preponderance of other reviewers, the game was incredibly stale and formulaic.

The fact that Demon's Souls sold over half as much as Star Ocean 4 in Japan with no advertising with a SEVERELY underestimated supply/ demand says something. It also charted for 5 or 6 weeks compared to Star Ocean's 4's three week run.

The problem with being a reviewer is that you set a measurement for how other games in the same genre are to be judged in the future. It's alright that this game isn't your cup of tea, but I disagree with your assertion that Star Ocean 4 was somehow better (especially not having played Demon's Souls myself yet, upon which to form an opinion).

P.S. Demon's Souls is a complete fan-service (and made by the same designers, I believe) to the Kingsfield series. If you never played/ enjoyed those games, you probably won't like this.

@below. Yes but the title of your Star Ocean review says it all: "Square Enix Redeem Themselves with Star Ocean: The Last Hope". That's a pretty strong statement. A lot of gamers would disagree with you, they didn't redeem themselves at all. They finally made a PASSABLE not EXEMPLARY game, nowhere near the standards and quality that we remember from the companies golden years (before the merger, really). Oh, and I'm pretty sure that you failed to mention the disc-swapping issue, which is a pretty big technical flaw by anyone's approximation. Lost Odyssey and even recent mutli-disc SE games didn't possess this flaw. I don't mind multi-disc games, but in a title as secrets and side-quest oriented as SO4, that's a fairly ugly technical hiccup to have.

Oh, and I agree with you on the "appeal" factor. With the exception of FFXIII, I - sadly, as it's one of my favorite genres - don't see any JRPG having the same appeal/ marketing/ sales as Western RPGs.

EDIT: None of this is an attack on you, I like your articles and they usually provoke interesting discussion/ debate. Better than HHG for sure :)

[MrWeymes]

I really enjoyed Star Ocean: The Last Hope. My review makes that apparent. However, I'm not saying that I enjoyed it more than I am enjoying Demon's Souls. It's a very addictive game. In fact, I booked about 8 hours in one sitting. I'm loving it, but I don't think it's the RPG that north american RPG fans are waiting for on their Playstation 3.

It doesn't have the cutesy story or the forgiving gameplay of a game like Star Ocean thus the comparison. I'm in no way giving Star Ocean: The Last Hope a free pass. I mentioned its flaws in the review.

Edit: I hope the title isn't misleading. It's a postive article about Demon's Souls for the most part. I'm just saying that it certainly doesn't have the broad appeal that a game like Mass Effect does. It's very niche, much like a Disgaea game.

Edit 2 @ Above: I mentioned the disk swapping in another article. Also, the title for my review was "Underage Cat-Girls in Space" You were thinking of my first impressions of the game. Anyway, I feel Square Enix redeemed themselves because SO: TLH showed that Tri Ace is getting comfortable with the 360's hardware. I have a lot of faith that Final Fantasy XIII will be great when it finally comes out.

And thanks for showing an interest in my writing. I enjoy a good debate, therefore I try to write articles that will garner a good discussion although they tend to bring out fanboys which is unavoidable.

[gaffyh]

Well Demon's Souls is a dungeon crawler rather than an RPG

[StephanieBBB]

I can see what your saying. Demon souls may be a great game but it doesn't have the "usual" rpg style gameplay. The PS3 is in dire need of games like Tales of vesperia and Finalfantasy. This game is more of an tombraider/rpg mix.

I will pick this up because the boss battles in this game looks epic.

[MrWeymes]

Exactly. It's a fine RPG in my opinion but Sony really needs an RPG with the classic appeal of a Final Fantasy. I'm assuming that White Knight Chronicles will be this game but it seems to be taking forever. The PS3 seems to be a niche RPG machine this generation. Valkyria Chronicles, Disgaea 3 and Folklore do not appeal to the general JRPG crowd in North America.

[TheTwelve]

I just got the game and it's indeed a game for the hardcore, and hardcore only. The first and most important reason why is that the game is HARD. You really have to up your gaming skills to even get past the first level.

12

[Chris399]

I read the preview, which said it was more of an "advanced" class - harder to play. "Magic-users" are generally what I play in any game where I'm given a choice, so I'm just curious.

Question 2: is importing worth it? Does the game have enough English in it to be comprehensible?

Any input on these questions would be welcomed.

Oh, and more on the topic at hand, I think that pretty much ALL JRPGs are "niche" nowadays, with the possible exception of Final Fantasy (which is the RPG equivalent of the Halo/ Super Mario franchises, that's not an insult, just a statement about it's appeal). Sad as it may be, the JRPG glory days of the PS1/ PS2 are becoming more and more of an antiquity as Western development and tastes outpace and outweigh the East. We'll still have epic JRPGs, but the interest and sales of these franchises will always lag behind WRPGs, shooters and action games.

Strangely, if you look at the release dates and announced titles, the Wii looks to be emerging as a bastion of the JRPG genre. Likely due to the cheap development costs. Sure all the games will be in 480p, but I'm willing to make the sacrifice for some classic JRPGing.

Peace.

[MrWeymes]

Well, I'm using a class called Royal. They are a good combonation of magic and strength. The magician is harder to use at the beginning of the game because unlike the Royal, they don't come with a ring that regenerates magic at the end of the game. I'm sure the magician gets better over time, but I chose the Roay to make things simple at the beginning of the game. Otherwise, I would have had to grind for far too long.

[morganfell]

I received my Asian edition (total English except the manual) the other day. It is indeed a Dungeon Crawler as gaffyh stated and not an RPG. MY only complaint so far isn't even game mechanic related. It's the music. But it is a somber title that as cost me I do not know how many hours so far.

[orakga]

Change the title to "Demon's Souls is no Star Ocean" and this post will be far less flaming. As it is right now, it's borderline offensive to non-casual gamers.

You may remember that Demon's Souls was the title that Famitsu's readers picked as the "most satisfying purchase" out of all the major titles so far this year. They picked this above SF4 and Yakuza 3, both of which are excellent titles.

Is Demon's Souls Niche? Yes, it most definitely is. But the word "Niche" has a negative connotation that you seemed to have overlooked (= "bad"). For a title that I've logged over 30 hours on already (and only beat 4 bosses!!), I don't think this game deserves the title treatment you gave.

@ Morgan: agreed 100% on the music.

[morganfell]

Your niche title comments, regardless of your feelings of accuracy do no service to the title. You can't just write what you want if you really want your message to succeed and reach the audience. You have to write in a manner which they will understand your meaning. As it is, "niche" affects gamers in a manner you likely did not intend. And that is failure on your part.

Just avoid the article and go here for better info:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

[SaiyanFury]

I LOVE Demon's Souls, but then I'm a big fan of the King's Field games. And DS is HARD. The Wiki site dedicated to it has a slogan: Figuring it out, one death at a time. You WILL die in the game, there's no getting around that. No the graphics aren't going to blow you away, but they're good. The sound is crisp and the voice acting with UK accents is also good. The control is responsive and effective. I'm an old school RPG freak and this game appeals to me just fine. Got the Asian version two weeks ago and still loving it.

[Chris Hansen]

Mr. Weymes, why do you always write these rants and try to pass it off as news on N(news)4G? Shouldn't you just post your rants on a forum or something?

[MrWeymes]

It's actually an informative article about a game that many people haven't played yet because of importing fees. You're entitled to your opinion, though.

[thereapersson]

Hey, at least when people bash you, you don't fly off the handle and return their animosity. So for that, despite totally disagreeing with your sentiments on a lot of articles you've posted, I will give you a bubble for remaining level-headed.

[Seraphim]

because of importing fees?

game stateside: $59 and some odd change plus tax and/or shipping = at least $53 and some odd change.

import: Demon's Souls from ncsx.com exactly $70.28. At the very most that's only about $7 more than retail, standard version games stateside.

In some sense though I do agree that it's a niche title. But then again, RPGs in general are niche titles.

btw: the combat isn't quite that simple. Sure it's easy to stand there and block and attack but rolling, and parrying take quite the skill and precision to execute.

[MrWeymes]

Thanks for the bubble. I'm a pretty easy going guy when the most important thing we debate on this site is video games. I find the personal insults a bit much, but I'm not much of a keyboard smack talker.

As for the importing fees, perhaps it's different where you live. I live in Canada and I often have to pay an extra $20 at the post office when I pick games up at the post office. Also, some people don't have access to a credit card or they don't find the initiative to import games even though they are interested in them. It's a shame that Yakuza 3 doesn't have english subtitles. I want that game so bad.

[Dipso]

@ Weymes

I agree with the reaper lad, you always defend your position with composure and that is a refreshing trait around here. Thanks for that synopsis on the game, it's more detailed than any article I've managed to find about Demons Souls so far and I can see what you mean about it not being for everyone.

[MrWeymes]

Thank you. I just figure that no matter what I write, I am going to get negative comments from someone. It's the way this industry works. As for Demon's Souls, I'm quite enamoured with it. At first, I was unimpressed. Six hours later, I realized that I was hooked.

[Danja]

well this game has amazing legs on the Japanese charts....

[mastiffchild]

True enough but, not having played it myself, I do start to wonder seeing how both this and WKC did so well in Japan on PS3 with little to no marketing whether Japanese PS3 owners are at a point where they'll buy pretty much any passable jrpg as they got so starved of them.
Neither DS or WKC pulled up many trees upon review out there but, as you say, both sold well and for lengths of time in their charts and , wth the general lack of quality in the genre this gen(excluding the Persona games out now on PS2)are japanese gamers just getting whats available? SO4 on 360 isn't up to series standards as far as I'm concerned either and that sold pretty damn well too. Add in that VC apart there's been next to no jrpgs on PS3 then you must wonder if it is the case that PS3 owners out there are just(or even more so than owners of 360s even if the SE quality has been lower than usual)that hungry for games that even niche titles sell pretty well.
As I say I haven't played DS so I'm guessing but I am worried about the state of jrpgs this gen and PS3 owners have fewer to even play right now hence my point.

[MrWonderful]

all i have to say is this game is amazing and tough as hell at some points to play. i love the online feature as well. when people die their blood stains leave hints for you. you also see glimpses of people in the same world as you.

[Sackdude]

Valkyria Chronicles is better then any RPG games on the 360 and PS3 combined.

[DelbertGrady]

In your opinion. I'm currently replaying Mass Effect and I must say it's probably the best RPG I've ever played. And I've played lots (since Phantasy Star I). My other favourites would be FF VII, Skies of Arcadia and Grandia II. Imo everything about Mass Effect is good. The story, the graphics, the voice-acting, the art direction, the combat, the music, the side-quests, the character design, the game length etc. It just immerses you like no other game I've played in years. You constantly want more. =)

I love tactical RPGs as well. FF Tactics and Ogre Tactics are my favorites. If Valkyria Chronicles is anything like those it's probably awesome.

[zep]

demons souls is a great game max lvl up to 712, giant bosses,online coop up to 4 player and has a pvp system too

[MrWeymes]

This is why it's niche, though. Even most RPG fans could care less about leveling past 100. I still agree that it is a fine game, though.

@Zep

I don't think I have the attention span to make it past level 100 in RPGs. I love them, but I always want to play an action game, platformer or a game in another genre by the time I'm nearing the end of an RPG.

[zep]

currently lvl 182 and im at newgame + most bosses now 1 hit kill me lol

[ChozenWoan]

I've been waiting for an RPG that is not cutesy and kiddy like most of the resent drivel we have been offered. From the article, sounds like this game is basically like Diablo, but using the third person view... and maybe minus the random dungeon generation since you didn't mention anything like that... but basically the same depth of game play and storyline.

As a gamer, I'm willing to overlook some minor animation glitches and shortcoming if the game play is great. And from the response this game has gotten over in Japan, it seems I might not be alone in that regard. Just from your description, this just might become one of Sony's hottest franchises this generation.

[MrWeymes]

The dungeons are not randomly generated. However, they're nicely designed from what I've played so far. If you're into dungeon crawling and farming for gold(souls) then you'll likely enjoy this game. I think people that it appeals to will absolutely love it. It has decent graphics and the online functionality is impressive. I have heard that there is co op as well but perhaps I am not far enough in the game to unlock it.

[ChozenWoan]

I've got to read the article again as I'm now so stroked about this game. Before, I would just hear about how well it was selling, and not a word about the gameplay or plot so I didn't care about it. Now I think I've found an RPG (W or J) that I can sink my teeth into.

Next stop after the rereading, Gametrailers for some gamplay footage... ohh yea!

Edit:
Ohh yea, just as I though. Great Game with Massive Boss fights! I can't wait... might have to learn to read Japanese just for this one. lol =)

Check it out here
http://www.gametrailers.com...

[VsAssassin]

Once you get passed the difficulty and were able to sink your teeth into the core gameplay (co-op and ala hunter-hunted online play) you will definitely fall in love. No you will be a stalker.

Think about the co-op for instance. Three player co-op trying to bring down a huge boss to rack up souls (exp) and get your Physical back.

Think about the hunter-hunted online play. A live player will intrude your game to kill you for more souls. Or, you can be the hunter and hunt other players for souls!

This game is underrated. But for us, this game is an instant classic. On gamefaqs, the boards are booming with people. It was ignored when it was shown at E3 last year. Now, it's picking up steam!

This game is addicting. Lots of missables that you will feel you need to get during new game plus. Think about it guys. Maybe start thinking about it later, since the Asian version is still sold out!

[paracardium]

It makes it to US/Canadian soil sometime.

[ceedubya9]

"A lot of RPGs are niche titles."

I doubt that many JRPGs have had much commercial success outside of Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy. Its just not a genre that people jump head over heels for. But there are some good ones out there, maybe not great, that some people may enjoy if they give them a chance and spend some time with them.

[kewlkat007]

......

[deividpaulo]

first

I'm playing both, Star Ocean 4(360) and White Knight Chronicles(PS3)

White Knight > SO4 in all aspects, White Knight has the best graphics and storyline ever...

second...

Demon's Soul is a HARDCORE RPG...it is not for everyone, it is for action-RPG lover...Demon's soul is for those who like challenges and have much patience...

all the 360's RPG games were so bad till today...

[creeping judas]

I've noticed that no RPG, whether Japanese or Western has had huge success in sales. At least not like in the glory days of SNES, PS1, era. Could it be that most of these people have moved onto MMO's like Word of Warcraft or Lord of The Rings Online??

I know that I play a lot of LOTRO, and I feel that the RPG's on consoles don't compare.

So do you think the buyers of console RPG's have moved on to MMO's on a computer?

[MrWeymes]

Perhaps. I've always like console JRPGs for the storylines and epic bosses that have always been accociated with the genre.

I don't know what has happened to the console RPG crowd. Perhaps they've grown tired of a genre that hasn't shown as much growth and innovation as other genres such as shooters.

Personally, I hate MMORPGs. You'll never find a review for one of them on TNG.

[morganfell]

What a coincidence. You will never find anyone with an IQ over 50 on TNG.

[Gun_Senshi]

Go in Japan and tell them this. They would laugh at you like the punk you are.

[sarshelyam]

Great job on getting this a bit more exposure MrWeymes as I believe it truly deserves this. Back when this debuted at TGS I became intrigued and immediately began doing some research. After discovering both Hidetaka Miyazaki & Takeshi Kajii described Demon's Souls as the spiritual successor to King's Field I knew it would be a must-have...and so I preordered it months back to have it no less than a day behind the launch overseas.

I started my game as a Thief, easily one of the most agile yet susceptible classes. My character has given me a new appreciation for patience in a RPG. Luring single enemies into 1-on-1 fights as opposed to swarms makes all the difference in the world. Get yourself into a pack and you'll be relatively helpless to do much else other than block, until your AP gauge is depleted...then all you can do is take a hit, or two, or three...

I also love the grind this game offers. Each boss I've fought and conquered (only 3 so far) have each presented unique patterns all equally epic. While the first was relatively easy to beat with patience, the second...and my third, were an entirely different story forcing me to use plenty of Herbs to heal in the midst of battle...increasing my heart-rate with excitement mostly in part to their HUGE scale.

I just fell the first Dragon and that was rather exciting. I love how everything you do in this game has a progressive feel. Slaying the Dragon, for example, removes instances of that same Dragon in other areas...essentially easing the transition of a persistent world with a lack of NPC's in the midst.

I've heard many people call this Sony's "Fable" but it is a completely different beast. Anyone can play Fable and, for the most part, Fable is far more Action than RPG...much like Zelda. Sure there is the stat progression and equipment traits, but it IS an Action-RPG to its core.

Demon's Souls is something different in that it requires a bit of a grind to grow as a character, the environment is an obstacle (characters cannot use pole-arms or large weapons effectively in tight areas), and the online aspect of Demon's Souls is rather exciting too. Not only are you treated to spiritual representations of other players within your world, you are also granted the ability (through specific items) to join others in co-op gameplay, or invade to hunt/kill other players in their world. This also effects the "alignment" of the world making things easier/more difficult depending on ones actions.

While I would agree the PS3 has an apparent lack of RPGs on the platform, the ones they DO have are all equally fantastic and unique...I can't say that for the competition. I own all the RPGs on the 360 and of the dozen plus the only ones to stand out are Tales of Vesparia, Fable II, and Mass Effect. Everything else has felt rather lackluster or recycled and I crave more. If you do too AND own a PS3, Demon's Souls just might sate that hunger.

As for the preview linked to this story, I'm glad they admitted they've only spent a few hours on the game. Demon's Souls really requires AT LEAST that before it begins to blossom, and that's not to say it's a dry game early on...simply...watching your character/s grow and become increasingly more effective takes some devotion. I think I'm going to play a Temple Knight or Soldier next.

EDIT:
I also invite any questions outside of any MrWeymes has already answered. I've been having a blast with this and would love to quell some of the fears potential importers might have. Shoot me a PM and I'll do my best to help.

[ChozenWoan]

does the imported version have an English GUI setting or is it all still in Japanese/Chinese. I'd consider importing this one if I could understand the GUI... of coarse, after a few hours of playing around I'm sure I could figure most of it out anyway.

[sarshelyam]

The Asian release is FULL English. English supplemental instruction manual but FULL English ingame menus, dialogue and subtitles.

[J@D]

I dont mind other person opinion... But, why my copy its taking so long to arrive. Man, look like the Asian copies are limited lately. My order still on "preparing for order" >_>.

[sarshelyam]

...plain and simple. It's something of a hardcore niche RPG and with the current passion for the JRPG, this was seen as a risk. Rest assured it's awesome and will be well worth your wait.