Mark Cerny: When making consoles, we're not trying to build low-cost PCs

PlayStation legend Mark Cerny discusses PS5, the challenges of making consoles, and his 42-year games industry career

[darthv72]

Well... they used to design their own chips. Emotion Engine, Cell, RSX... when they switched to using X86 based chips is now more akin to low-mid cost PCs than before. It may not look like a PC but it pretty much is one. I'd bet it could do productivity stuff just fine if they allowed it to.

[Cockney]

I think series consoles are closer to pc than playstation seeing as they used the full suite of rdna 2 functions, didn't Sony strip a lot of that away to streamline their machine to be games focused? Its probably lacking in the office and productivity department, don't ask me what their custom chip does or doesn't do I just remember reading a lot about at the time, "rdna 1.5" was the call and yet what we see is pretty much level pegging as far as games go

[GamerRN]

Actually, stripping that away doesn't streamline, it hinders. Those features are actually helpful for gaming.

And they didn't strip them out, they just didn't work closely enough to be able to use them all since specs weren't finalized. Microsoft took an inside line on that one.

The reason why things are equal is because Xbox rarely has games designed on their box, they are usually designed on PS5 and ported over. So Xbox loses the power edge it has to making up the poor optimization.

It's ok, I think the lesson is you have to have a significant increase in power of 30 percent or more to be noticeable. And you have to sell enough to become the lead console for development otherwise you lose that power.

[Einhander1972]

@GamerRN

PS5 outperforms series x because it uses custom chips to process things that on xbox need to be done by the GPU/CPU.

Things like Tempest Audio, and it's custom compression chip for SSD as well as having a separate chip for upscaling using checkerboard and presumably FSR runs off it as well.

[OlderGamer17]

O please stop the myth that the seriesX mythe is the only console that is using the "the full suite or Rdna2" is already debunked al long time ago.

[ZycoFox]

The consoles use video ram as system ram as well since it's all shared, so nah.

[Christopher]

You should probably read the whole quote and not just go based on the title.

[darthv72]

I have read it... I dont think anyone can build a PC that equates to the performance of a PS5/Series X for anywhere close to their selling point. Not for a while at least.

And my comment about them switching from custom chips to more PC related just adds to that fact. whether people want to believe it or not... Sony has built a low cost (not spec, there is a difference) PC.

[neutralgamer1992]

We need better games on these consoles. This generation has been such a huge letdown so far. Moving forward these current consoles will be supported even when newer Playstation and Xbox are in the market. AAA games have been so expensive to make and it seems fun is taken out of games and loot boxes take their place. Try playing a NBA 2k game it's like a casino with slot machines

[just_looken]

The cost of making these games is a scam

Nba 2k19 to 2k14 its like madden the budget to make went stupid high but the fundamental of the game and the game modes never changed.

Anything now even basic intersection construction is tens of millions but pre coivid few hundred grand.

2018 here is $400 landscaping now here is the pink slip to my car.

I swear the cost of everything is the same but there taking of that huge profit top for there own pockets.

[Einhander1972]

The PS5 is incredibly customized.

The SSD, the Tempest Audio, the APU itself is a mix of cross generation AMD hardware in order to be more optimized for gaming and cost efficient.

The PS5 Pro also has features from cross generation AMD hardware with RT features from RDNA 4 plus it's own custom upscaler PSSR.

PlayStation 5 Pro features next-gen RDNA 4-based ray tracing engine, allows 2-3x faster RT
https://www.tweaktown.com/n...

PlayStation still uses custom designed hardware.

[darthv72]

honestly... I dont know why some are taking offense to it being called a low cost PC. It really is... and low cost is a good thing. the article did not say low performance PC... that is totally different.

[Einhander1972]

I'm saying they still are designing their own chips, they just use AMD templates.

The PS5 APU has features from RDNA 1 2 and 3, and the PS5 Pro adds features from RDNA 4, and the CPU is the same with it own customized features.

Then all of that is paired with other custom chips.

[just_looken]

What you all said my rig in my bedroom can do it no issues

That plastic box has a 2020 cpu with the pro using a 2021 6700

The custom is do to them being dirt cheap with a 2 prong power supply so they made a cpu/gpu combo chip aka apu.

Get a amd laptop with there new mobile chips get the same performance.

[VincentVanBro]

You’re right but downvoted for some reason.

[just_looken]

Its this site even the head admin banned me for awhile being but hurt over my "anti" sony comments.

n4g is pro sony nothing sony will ever do can change that.

[Pyrofire95]

When you only look at the big flagship chips that seems true, but there's a lot going on in a modern console that takes advantage of being a dedicated kit. The various elements put into how the pipelines are connected shape the direction of games. End to end decryption and data streaming is something big that PC can only kind of do and with less certainty for example. Dedicated audio chip that rivals the main CPU in the PS4 is a big paradigm shift, devs used to fight for cores and audio was often last priority, whereas in traditional PC design the main CPU does both of those jobs of processing audio and decryption, while also performing all the other CPU based tasks.
It's not the custom silicon that used to be what made consoles but there's a lot more to consoles now. Data storage was not even a consideration and almost no RAM was on old consoles. Now there needs to be an enormous amount of SSD storage, and RAM to make these games tick with how much is demanded from them.

[just_looken]

@darth

Your comment show how many sony blindboys are on here

You are 100% correct but to add on the gamecube-ps3 also had a gpu/cpu combo back in the day unlike modern consoles that are just glorified tablets using apu/igpu's.

I miss the ps3 era start of ps4 era that sony was awesome

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

Yah, hence the majority of the PS5’s hardware investment going towards an SSD instead of a GPU.

There are countless custom pc gaming rigs out there, and I bet none of them took an SSD-centric approach to their design, like the ps5 did.

[just_looken]

LMAO wow sony blind boy's are mad in love

That is called direct storage windows 10 has had that for over 5 year's every computer with a nvme based ssd has had that tech for years.

https://www.thewindowsclub....

The ps6 will then have this new amazing tech you all will go crazy over resize bar
https://www.howtogeek.com/8...

But that tech has been out for 2 years all 40series gpu's intel gpus and the new amd cards have that tech.

There is nothing a ps5 can do over a 4+ year old computer 2019 rig want resize bar? get a cheap amd/intel card for half the cost of a ps5.

[Mr_cheese]

What's resize bar?

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

Clearly you did not watch Cerny’s first ps5 breakdown, so you don’t appreciate EVERYthing Cerny did to leverage their extremely fast SSD.

[bigfish]

I can see where he’s coming from re ps5 not just being a box with parts like a pc. They must also spend an awful lot on r & d just to design the thing so it has aesthetic appeal and typical Japanese with some sort of Philosopy behind the design. Would also think other factors around the custom airflow and the like would cost a lot given that it’s not a standard box shape

[TheColbertinator]

That's all a console will ever be.

[gold_drake]

true, but the alternative is, relatively, a expensive ordeal.
unless you dont game at all ha.

[mkis007]

Just spent 2000k on a 4070ti super 7800x3d 1440p gaming pc. Honestly consoles will never be replaced at this wide a gap in price. I plan to get a ps5 pro too.

[just_looken]

@mk

You waisted 2 grand you mean

At 1440p a amd4 chipset with a 5600x3d combined with a 6750xt even a 6800 can push 1440p just a much for half the cost or less used/new and or sales.

I have a 75hhz monitor in my bedroom 1440p playing games maxed out spent around 1200cad but aio 5800x3d 32gb of ram and a 6750xt 28 or 30 inch monitor.

Every time i hear pc so expensive i just laugh you can spend less than $500 buy a used ebay rig fix it up or a office pc toss in a cheap low profile card.

[MehmetAlperTR]

but you are....

[Pyrofire95]

If you look into the hardware beyond just the CPU and GPU things start to look different, and there's plenty beyond just those two parts, those two parts even are modified to their own design in some degree.

[gold_drake]

i especially love his break down videos of the consoles.

[PRIMORDUS]

Really now 🤣 They are lost cost PC's, with some proprietary parts. Now be quiet Cerny😑

[just_looken]

I love how everyone defends a 2015 portable bluray drive as innovative because it's playstation even though it has a proprietary connection along with a server connection requirement.

[InUrFoxHole]

👁 This will not be liked, sir!

[Fonsecap]

It may not be a low-cost PC, because it doesn't run PC programs (Office, Email, etc...etc) but it sure runs games like one, maybe not a low cost, maybe more like a mid-range one....

[PassNextquestion]

@Einhander1972

The only reason the PS5 is able to outperform the Xbox Series X is because it's the lead platform. The only thing I remember that the playstation had that was theoretically faster was the ssd drive. To be honest I'm not sure if that is even being fully utilised so it's probably having little effect in performance between the two consoles.

[ApocalypseShadow]

BS. Microsoft is worth 3 TRILLION. Over 2 trillion before that. While Sony has been worth only 100 billion for years. Microsoft had multiple in-house developers before buying third party publishers. Zero games that run better than Sony's in-house games. Current or last generation. Games like GT7, Horizon, Spider-Man, TLofU, GOW and Ghost of Tsushima ran rings around Xbox games in comparison in many areas. Microsoft had zero games that had better animation. Zero games that had better detail.

Stop making excuses for a company that has all the resources available to it to prove to the gaming community that their systems are more powerful.

You can't blame multiplatform parity and lead console nonsense when in-house games aren't showing a difference.

[PassNextquestion]

You can't compare Playstation and Xbox's 1st party developers games to judge performance. Unless the particular game runs on both consoles.

I don't think we have seen many games actually take advantage of the current console which I think is pretty sad considering they probably have already started working on games for the new systems.

I think Xbox series and PlayStation 5 came out in 2020. Life cycle of console is 5 to 7 years approximately. So new console will arrive in 2025 - 2027. The average game takes about 4 years to make so if you want a game ready for launch you would of already started unless it's a smaller or less ambitious game.

[NotoriousWhiz]

Bad argument. Sony 1st party developers are clearly superior to xbox 1st party developers. They could probably make PS4 games look better than Xbox Series games.

[InUrFoxHole]

Except HB2 looks far better than anything MS or Sony has offered to this point.

[Pyrofire95]

There's more to hardware than what has mathematically more Tflops. Tho being the industry leader can be somewhat of a factor I'm not sure it's very much of one.

[anast]

Good news, because low cost PC's a jank compared to consoles.

[XiNatsuDragnel]

That's a good philosophy now focus on gameplay like Nintendo.

[Pyrofire95]

As a fan of playstation, yeah, I've been wishing for a couple of years now that'd that'd focus on gameplay first more like Nintendo. I'm not saying completely abandon everything and try to copy Big N, but to take some ques and focus on tight gameplay experiences first and let the rest follow. We finally seem to be getting that with Astro Bot but tbh, I can't see Astro having the character design strength that any other Nintendo character does. I just don't see a robotic design having that kind of mass appeal. It doesn't even have sounds that people can playfully imitate like Mario or Link.

[Pyrofire95]

Cerny really said putting down an Apple in Crash 2.
lol, of all the people you'd expect to say wumpa fruit.

[Knightofelemia]

As long as it plays games I just don't give a shit as long as I am having fun. I do need a newer gaming PC until I get the cash together for that I'll stick with my PS5.

[Destiny1080]

mark cerny must be preparing his speech for the pro launch

its not a low end pc with upscaling capabilities, it comes with a state of the art SSD for marginally better loading

we took 8k of the box because a low end Pc cant upscale that high only 1440p

[just_looken]

Remember how dragons dogma jedi fallen 2 were 720p native used fsr to get to the 1440p resolution.

[Abear21]

Nope. PC will always have free online play. Consoles want you to $ubscribe

[just_looken]

Until that forced psn bs on steam means a psn server connection want to play helldivers online? get ps plus bitch

That will be next you watch.

[TheColbertinator]

Terrible idea. Sony must have come up with it.

[Father__Merrin]

Wish they went back to having unique architecture instead

[ocelot07]

"I think as long as we continue to create that very nice package, the future of consoles is pretty bright"

What I like to hear.