What does Xbox’s Next Gen Console and Cloud Hybrid Power Mean for PlayStation 6?

Devin Rardin: Xbox's next console could be a significant jump, putting the pressure on PlayStation to counter with a big generational jump of its own.

[mandf]

Nothing because it's all talk

[Christopher]

$70b isn't all talk people. Microsoft has been saying for 13 years now that they plan to do away with hardware in the future. When people say stuff, listen. They're not hiding their plans, you're just not listening. The goal is the cloud, not hardware. And they have been spending money to get the industry there as well as leveraging their other divisions towards it. This is not all talk. This is a potential industry changing moment and the consumers in general are going to decide this, not people on N4G.You know, that same consumers who keep buying all the games we complain about being annual repeats with no advancements or Fortnite skins or all the other things we don't like? Those consumers.

[northpaws]

The problem is, you can have the perfect infrastructure for cloud and stuff, but can you upgrade everyone's routers? Can you help every single one of them to position their router for better signal? There are too many variables outside of MS control.

We will get there some days, but regardless of power, a great is great not because it has the power of the cloud, but because it is actually a fun and polished game.

[fr0sty]

Not even just people's home connections, But the number of hops the data has to go through in order to get from their server to your system, the distance between adding several milliseconds per hop, and the fact that in order to render at 60 frames per second, you have to get all of the data you need to draw that frame back within 16 milliseconds, even fiber optic internet connections don't consistently have pings below 16 milliseconds. Especially when the server they are connecting to Is any more than a few states away from them.

[shinoff2183]

Fking casuals. Those damn consumers.

[JackBNimble]

Well MS still planning on releasing another round of hardware.

[Stanjara]

You will have one first party exclusive a year with third party support and indies. Third party is also where Nintendo is going with stronger hardware for it.
Gaas and multiplayer games are a mixed bag and if they are not F2p, they are doa.
MS bought third party that made most of their money on PS... elder online, minecraft, cod, diablo... will they continue to bring money as ms exclusives? Who knows?

PC is also a mixed bag with torrents.
Subs are also a mixed bag with too many of them. Are people willing to pay 5 subs/$15 a month???
Cloud is also a mixed bag with tech and infrastructure.

As a gamer that is aware... aka woke, what I see is: Diablo garbage, Starfield/Fallout lies and garbage, WOW hard core garbage, Cod has a cool campaign but garbage, Doom...good music. Elder scrolls online... it makes money, Minecraft... idk how it makes money.

Sony must do one AAA a year, remain good third party relationships and be fine. VR2 is a mistake but hey.

Nintendo is on another lv. With third party running in handheld mode.. huhuhuuuuu Switch 2 is bad ass serious.

Sony can only Bungie themselves and that will be the end. Live gaas sub trash model of games... and tbh
they will do exactly that.
Jim Rayan will burn Sony to the ground... not MS.

[S2Killinit]

MS does indeed want to end consoles. But I don’t think it will be able to destroy PlayStation. I think before anything like that happens, Sony will forge an alliance or merger with a company willing to share the spoils in exchange to get a foothold within the industry, then MS will have its hands full. And this is the worst case scenario for Sony. Best case is, PlayStation continues to demolish xbox as it has been doing so far.

[Mroc13]

got people out here still playing offline or with connections so bad that they just use internet to download games. Cloud gaming is a dream and will be for a long time

[mandf]

Christopher I am listening. Ms is trying trying to force change but the buyer prevents it. In no way does ms plan work. They will be punished again by the consumer just like last gen.

[Obscure_Observer]

"Microsoft has been saying for 13 years now that they plan to do away with hardware in the future."

I don´t think you understood this project for MS´s next gen console (hardware) at all.

This new system will be POWERED by both top level hardware (as far cost/benefit for console are concerned) and Cloud!

If anything, it has the potential to be the most powerful console in the market!

Phil said many times that Cloud is not build to provide high fidelity graphics and performance, you can only achieve that via hardware.

If you´re expecting Xbox to leave hardware and high performance gaming for Sony, you´re setting yourself for nothing, but a surprise.

The Cloud is nothing more than another revenue stream to MS.

[Christopher]

@Obscure: You're why they're going to get what they want. You're not listening to them.

***“I think you’re going to see lower priced hardware as part of our ecosystem when you think about streaming sticks and other things that somebody might want to just go plug into their TV and go play via xCloud,” says Spencer. “You could imagine us even having something that we just included in the Game Pass subscription that gave you an ability to stream xCloud games to your television and buying the controller.”

Nobody is arguing that physical consoles won’t have an important role to play in the world of video games over the next decade or so. If that weren’t true I’d probably be talking more about Stadia and Luna—streaming-only platforms—then xCloud, which views streaming as an augmentation to existing ways of playing games. But to hear Spencer talk in this way, it definitely sounds like the company wants to be prepared for a world where people warm up to the idea of playing games on their TVs without consoles. The company is re-orienting so that its main product isn’t really Xbox hardware, so much, but the Game Pass subscription that can be sold and accessed through multiple devices.***

Series S is just the start. Their future plans are cheaper hardware with Cloud streaming being the focus, which is the hardware they're talking about with the FTC documents. And they're already talking about just using sticks for the future.

[fr0sty]

So now MS is back to blowing "clouds" of smoke up everyone's asses like they did with Xbox One.

"PS4 isn't more powerful! We will have games with cloud assisted rendering and physics that will blow away anything PS4 can do!"

We all saw how that turned out... one game launched with extremely limited cloud physics assistance, and it was nothing to write home about. PS4 remained the most powerful console until the mid-gen refresh consoles dropped.

The fact of the matter is, even the best internet connections out there do not have the latency low enough to be able to do cloud assisted rendering, and that's even with servers nearby. In order to do cloud assisted rendering, you have to send the data needed for the frame to a server, have the server have enough time to do the calculation, and then get the data back from the server in less than 16 milliseconds in order to be able to draw the frame fast enough to display the image at 60 frames per second. Most people's ping isn't even lower than 16 milliseconds, meaning that even if you were only sending one bit of data to the server, and the server didn't have to do any processing at all, all that had to do was send that bit back, you still wouldn't get it back in time to draw the frame.

Microsoft already got caught in that lie once, and here they are trying to do it again. That just shows they plan on releasing another weak console like the Xbox series s, and then using cloud hype to try to get people to buy into it.

Cloud assisted consoles are a long way off yet, much farther than 2028. By the time they are feasible, it would be more economical just to game completely in the cloud with no local processing done whatsoever.

[VariantAEC]

Or instead of forcing 16ms they will just force the console to wait... for your 400ms ping. Yikes.

They can totally do Cloud Assisted Rendering right now, but it wouldn't even be considered a passable interactive experience for even the most casual gamers, never mind the dedicated core base.

Personally, I'd love to see a functional demo like what MS showed of Crackdown 3's city-wide destruction running in a real world network environment. We all know MS can't do it because latency is way too high...

Anyway, Nvidia's Omniverse already does all this stuff in the here and now, it's just made to streamline collaboration in a less demanding, but still interactive way. It's in a different market bracket, not made for highly responsive gaming situations.

[Northpoint]

They are going to milk the casuals by charging per feature on top of the services. They're building the base now with Game Pass but eventually it's going to be no more consoles, just you can play straight from your tablet, TV, or phone with these additional options:
4k 60fps with Raytracing for $49.99 per month
1440p 60fps for $29.99 per month
HD 60fps for $19.99 per month

[fr0sty]

But even then, from a technical perspective, it isn't going to work for games that require split second accuracy. Go measure the input lag on any cloud based game, and you'll see what I mean. Even on the best connections, you're still lagging too far behind to run a game like Call of Duty or Street Fighter and be able to pull off shots/attacks fast enough to be competitive. There is a noticeable lag with online cloud gaming, and this will also apply even if some of the calculations are done locally. There's a reason why all the smoke and mirrors Microsoft created with "Xbox One will overpower PS4 with cloud assisted rendering" never actually materialized into anything. It couldn't... the internet just wasn't (and still isn't) ready for it.

This video illustrates it, on Microsoft's own servers, no less...

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Look at those input lag amounts, in milliseconds, and then remember that 1 frame at 60fps is 16ms... Xbox Cloud has 130ms of lag, that's more than 8 frames of lag for every command you input. Imagine trying to play Street Fighter competitively with 8 frames of lag... Trying to frame count your moves...

Now imagine if the graphics in your game rely on this... your game is drawing at 60fps, a frame every 16ms, but the ray tracing isn't sending data back for 130ms...

[jlove4life]

Lmao don't give them any ideas

[S2Killinit]

Nothing, it will get demolished by Playstation again.

[Obscure_Observer]

"Nothing because it's all talk"

That´s what some people said back in 2017 when Phil said he would invest and acquire new first party studios.

[Markdn]

Didn't they feed us this line of horse manure when the released the xbox 360 about cloud power

[Jin_Sakai]

It means PlayStation has nothing to worry about.

[Eonjay]

Exactly. I keep remembering that most of the changes that Microsoft has been trying to force onto gaming aren't things that consumers even asked for. These changes don't make things any better for gamers only Microsoft whatever Sony does it should remembering not to force it on people for PS6.

[TheKingKratos]

I actually like Microsoft dropping the hardware and becoming a big publisher with all the studios they have under theri control and if they are smart they would release all their games on every system and drop the war they are never going to win against Sony.

[Kurt Russell]

That's how I see it, PlayStation will be catering for a different demographic of players than Xbox if true. This gen I've shifted from Xbox to PC when it comes to gamepass playing. But the PS5 is firmly the "home entertainment" system that I couldn't do without, allowing me to unwind in front of the TV and not worry what driver crapped the bed this time.

[Obscure_Observer]

"It means PlayStation has nothing to worry about."

If Playstation wants to deliver a powerful next gen console, it´s means A LOT.

[Jin_Sakai]

No it doesn’t.

[ApocalypseShadow]

It means DRM 2.0 is possibly only a generation away when they try again to implement what they couldn't before. But believe they have influenced enough gullible gamers to go along for the ride. Because Microsoft likes to "play the long game."

PS6 will just be an evolution of before with advanced haptics, sound and immersion. But may have AI like Sophi built in to enhance gamers experiences. With a console capable of outplaying you or support you in battle better than any in game NPC. But at the same time, improve your gaming skills. Single player companion or online competitor.

[Tacoboto]

Do you actually believe that Sony isn't marching to the same end game Microsoft is? They'd be insane to hamstring Sophi by limiting it to local processing.

... And you do know Sony's beating Microsoft to the punch in selling you physical hardware that is useless without an always active WiFi connection in the Portal.

[fr0sty]

Always active LOCAL wifi connection, not requiring you to be online and connected to their servers just to play the thing... Huge night and day difference there.

[shinoff2183]

I got plenty of physical disc's that can be played without updating. Maybe not the big guns like a madden, cod, etc but I've plenty that don't need a internet connection.

[sadraiden]

No. Not at all. The endgame is making money. Sony has a better perspective on what gamers prefer, and they generally don't push their luck. Sony has a streaming service akin to gamepass, Sony just prefers to stack their environment with in house and 2nd party developer titles rather than just acquire companies.

Every single choice MS has made for their hardware over the last 2 generations they've had to apologize for or backpedal on their plans.

[PhillyDonJawn]

Tread lightly MS, don't be foolish twice

[jwillj2k4]

Twice?????? 😂😂😂

[fr0sty]

Exactly, has everyone forgotten all the cloud BS they spewed about Xbox One whenever it was revealed that it was significantly weaker than the PS4?

[CombatEmu]

@fr0sty While this isn't related to cloud, but remember when Microsoft also tried to push Hololens? I mean, yeah, VR is still very niche but at least it actually has an established market rather than a non-existent one.

[343_Guilty_Spark]

Means they don’t care what Sony does or doesn’t do.

[Christopher]

What? The article is asking what Sony will do with PS6 and your answer is Sony doesn't care what Sony does or doesn't do?

[shinoff2183]

Yes they do. Everything they've done is to hurt Sony. They got into console gaming due to being scared of Sony.

[TheCaptainKuchiki]

They care because rn the only thing keeping MS from dominating consoles is Sony.
Stop being delusional

[cammers1995]

Xbox will go all cloud but PlayStation and Nintendo won't and Xbox will lose customers. Good riddance.

Never forget that Xbox one was almost always on drm but was forced to change it because of PS4.

[Lightning77]

Sony is already toyin around with a discless PS5 slim.

https://www.cnet.com/tech/p...

Detachable disc drive How can y'all forget so easily?

Sony's already half way there already. It'll be foolish to think Sony simply isn't following suit or "following MS", because they're not. They're going with Industry's natural movement of digital and cloud future and strong digital platforms like The S and discless PS5, movies and music going mainly digital. So if PS6 is discless console with cloud capabilities also don't go running to mom crying about how mean ol MS made or influenced Sony go all digital with PS6. It's Sony's console and buissness they'll do as they see fit with PS6 and I bet money it's them going where the industry is inevitably going.

[shinoff2183]

Sonys actually giving us real options.

[fr0sty]

I already own a discless PS5... lol. But I had the option to buy one with discs, which is the key point here... and that option will remain with the new discless model, as it is said to accept an external blu-ray drive that you attach via the usb port... and in the end, that's actually even better than having it built in, because if it craps out, you just buy another drive, not another console.

[Lightning77]

@Shinoff right now of course. We have options on both. I'm talking about the future will there be options? We don't know.

[fr0sty]

Eventually disc drives will be phased out, because discs are going obsolete. They load slowly, and people are buying fewer and fewer of them. I do video production for a living, I can't even buy the software I've used for decades to make DVDs and Blu-Rays anymore, and finding printers that can print on those discs is getting harder and harder as well. Discs will soon be a thing of the past for movies and games.

Not having a disc drive doesn't by itself mean that online is going to be required to play the games you download. I own a discless PS5, and play it offline all the time.

[XiNatsuDragnel]

@frosty

They're probably go switch methods, as long as Nintendo stays physical we good.

[Fist4achin]

It means they'll release more good games and sell more units.

[andy85]

It means they'll completely ignore what Xbox are planning hopefully.

[Obscure_Observer]

"It means they'll completely ignore what Xbox are planning hopefully."

They probably will, even because they have no chance to compete in this regard.

MS has Azure while Sony don´t.

[Unknown_Gamer5794]

It means a slow news day, because neither will be out anytime soon, and will likely be very different systems by the time they’re out of the planning stages and into production.

[BehindTheRows]

Only correct answer.

[RupeeHoarder]

Good luck is all I can say. Means nothing for the PS6.

[dmonee]

It means Sony, should do the exact opposite of what Xbox is trying to do, because what Sony is doing, is working for the time being.

[Auron]

It means all sony has to do is focus on physical media and it will destroy xbox just like xbone v ps4

[Traecy]

It's definitely too early to be talking about next gen consoles when they don't release until 5 years from now. XB needs to be talking about releasing first party AAA games on their current consoles..asap. This includes PS as well.

[neomahi]

Hopefully an entirely different console. Who wants to copy what Xbox does?

[jwillj2k4]

Let’s say game pass is the only game in town. What’s the model for a Dec shop to make money? No matter what they’re going to want have their game on game pass because no one‘s buying games anymore. There’s no incentive for Microsoft to pay them to put the game on game pass. If anything, at this point they are paying Microsoft to put their game on game pass. So what’s the model for gaming not to come to a complete halt? How would a game company make its money?

[purple101]

Wow that's such a good point I never thought of. If there is only gamepass then why should Ms pay to have it on when there is no disk option.

They pay currently, so you don't have to buy the disk/digital so if that option is taken away, m$ won't even have to pay developers because there will be no where else for them to go.

[TheCaptainKuchiki]

Anyone remembers how cloud was supposed to make Xbox One 10x more powerful than PS4?
Tha magic sauce? 😂
Look how it turned out 10 years later

[-Foxtrot]

Well if one console is going all digital and in the cloud then yours should focus on just being more traditional with physical media

Why try and do the same thing? At least you’ll gain physical media fans and each company will go after a different audience.

[Christopher]

Especially when you can focus on both physical and digital at the same time. There's zero reason to move away from physical unless you also want to get caught up in the game that Microsoft is already winning.

[XiNatsuDragnel]

PS6 will have physical and digital options like ps5 tbh.

[sagapo]

The hybrid stuff aside, specs for the next gen hardware seems awesome. But the PS6 will have similar if not better specs. Even more because of these leaks.

[ocelot07]

Simple Sony will continue on what they have been doing for almost 30 years. Make a console and games millions of people want to buy.

[weissmuller]

Where have Da Cloud ever done anything significant for their games?

[StarkR3ality]

Cloud hybrid power? I Remember when someone said that the cloud would make the Xbox One 10x more powerful or some shit. Fuck all came of that.

Keep stum, keep the games coming and you'll win people over, it's simple.

[kryteris]

they already said like 4 years ago that they would share infrastructure with playstation.

[kryteris]

facebook has similar goals, expect it in the quest 3 or 4.

[anast]

The pressure is on Xbox. Since 94-95, Sony has proven they can manage a gaming company.

[purple101]

Ohh' I can tell you exactly what it means...

It means, crackdown4.

[anast]

Crackdown 4 ...nice

[The-VG-shamman]

Ok let me help clear the air. Basically the “hybrid” tech thats being invested into is simply stream gaming or (cloud gaming). Which would be very cost efficient but at the cost of fidelity. Basically no more disc or downloads but rather direct live streaming of games like cable tv.(hope you guys didn’t forget about (Xbox Kinect). PlayStation is no saint either, both of these companies are working hard to eliminate user personalization. They want a more direct approach to gaming for the casuals. No more independent properties, only curated content for the masses. These consoles have become a gimmick(legit), theyre boasting specs that aren’t even part of the console machines, the new A.I software and programming is made to eliminate human input. This means automated decisions for curated games which no one built. And let’s not get started with the subscriptions. Basically the waiver for no more consoles. Welcome to the future. Ps. just wait till the phone casuals intergrade and start controlling the construct.

[The-VG-shamman]

It’s not about Xbox vs PlayStation anymore you guys have to wake tf up!!. They’re both cloud streaming our games and scamming us out of our money.

[Huey_My_D_Long]

Gotta say if they are gonna use ai to excite people they need cooler shit than learn your preferences for settings...
Jeez these leaks are fucking terrible.

[contra157]

More ways for the big guy to ditch physical copies so you have no control over the product anymore

[Charlieboy333]

It means Playstation will win yet again.

[Aaroncls7]

The gaming industry - like many things - fluctuates on the scales of balance.

As console generations pass, power struggles tip the scales from one side to the other.
You've seen or at least heard of how Nintendo was THE powerhouse in the 80's and early 90's, and how they fought fiercely against Sega.
Then Sony entered the fray, Sega consoles died and Nintendo was knocked down a peg or two, etc, etc.

Market dominance can and likely will swap sides, and that's not usually a bad thing.
Competitiveness helps the industry and ultimately benefits the consumer.

[Binarycode]

Nothing.

Sony is on it's own path.

[Einhander1971]

More excited for Nintendo's next system to be honest.

[sadraiden]

Imagine writing this article unironically in 2023.

[purple101]

It means Sony next console will be even more successful than the current one?