Spearheaded by AdamDubiGames, the sole creator of Chordosis, the game has some terrifying sceneries, amazing visuals, and some Alien madness.
The renowned director says The Witcher 4 is stuck in development hell due to UE5 as the engine can't handle complex open worlds.
PLEASE NOTE: This is the opinion of a developer not working on any CDPR games and only spoke to 'someone' at CDPR about it. This really should not move the needle of concern at all.
IMHO, developers not working on actual games should shut up about those games until it's released. Why are you stepping on the toes of fellow industry professionals and making claims that could be out of context to the intent of the original? Just shut up. I'm certain you don't want others talking similarly about your own games.
The internal Source may have wanted this info to be made public. He may have also been responding to DF's underhanded critique on using CryEngine (as opposed to UE5).
From a dev perspective there is nothing more frustrating than developing in a difficult environment. From a management perspective there is nothing worse than having a tool result in extended development times which only explode costs.
AAA costs are high enough. These issues are being passed on to consumers.
It happened in the past already that fellow studio talent from the outside were given top secret information on purpose to talk about it publically.
Maybe to raise attention to an on-going internal conflict in HR people over there are afraid of raising themselves.
Or like here, for one of a technical matter they're also afraid to talk about fearing punishments.
My personal take:
This here is the game director of Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 talking, with probably a ton of very good connections and knowledge within the industry's "What to say and what not to say".
And he by himself did NOT choose UE5 on purpose for KCD2.
Because not just maybe, but highly likely there IS indeed truth about UE5 rather being curse than blessing for the entire industry in its current shape & management goals:
https://youtu.be/M00DGjAP-m...
I really recommend watching all the channels videos. This one linked here isn't even the newest.
Fully agree with your point about devs commenting on other devs work whilst in development.
Also worth mentioning that learning a new engine has its growing pains on every individual developer.
Also, Witcher 4 basically just entered full production. I don't see how they could already be in development hell at this point.
What do you mean by complex? Lords of the Fallen? Ark? STALKER 2? Fortnite LEGO?
Will you just find some excuse to ignore games to make a point or are you actually looking for games?
Avowed? Clair Obscur? MGS Delta? Fable?
There's still a chance to ship the Cyberpunk sequel in Red Engine.
The 2077 build is already there, just use it to create the sequel, instead of using UE5 from scratch.
CP2077 looks better than most current gen games and is actually a current gen game, the last gen builds shouldn't even exist.
So that they can adjust the dev timeline, delay the UE5 Witcher and prepone the Red-engined-CP-sequel development and release. I know it wont happen but to me this makes abit sense.
***There's still a chance to ship the Cyberpunk sequel in Red Engine. ***
I have it on pretty good authority that this is not going to happen. They moved to UE to make it easier to develop multiple games at once and have people move from one project to another and an ease of integration from outside sources.
Edit: to note, I agree that Red Engine is great and produced an amazing cyberpunk game that I'm not sure would be the same in UE. It's sad to see an engine go away after all that time they put into it as well, even going from third-person to first and having to reconfigure the game to match those needs because they couldn't get it to work in third-person to begin with.
I know. The decision was final. Hence my end statement above.
But ..... a last Red Engine endeavor still makes sense. They've got the very tech-laden/forward build ready. It outclasses most rivals. They've just gotta think of a new story, progression and world design. Instead of going all-in on UE for all 3 projects from scratch at the same time. Witcher projects can start their UE transition, CP can follow later.
There's a reason some AAA studios are sticking to the same IP/engine for some time and not transitioning to somethin new . Like Guerilla and Sucker Punch. Coz they can iterate on the previous build than put effort in a whole new IP design change or engine change from scratch.
And CP 2077's Red build at current state is just really good.
But anyways, they wanna streamline internally, so my opinion is from a surface level observation here. But one last Red engine hurrah would've been great.
No there isn't. The talent who knew that engine intimately are gone. It's why they moved to Middleware. So they don't have to spend time training new hires on their engine.
I was thinking, “What is KCD2”? I didn’t recognize the abbreviation. Then I looked it up and thought, “wait so this guy doesn’t even work at CDPR, nor is he working on the Witcher 4 sooo what is he on about?”
Who ever said that game development doesn’t have its hurdles? Whatever is happening they will figure it out.
If this person was quoting the truth from the insider source, than it show that there maybe some fundamental problem on the CDPR development process. CDPR changed to UE5 because it struggle with its own engine. Now it is rumored to struggle with a common engine UE5.
From what I read its true which is the reason cd project is not just using UE5 but they are working in tandem with Unreal to improve the entire engine for other devs and them also its a collaboration.
UE grows based on working with the people who needs it to do things better for them. They may pay for it, but it's definitely a collaborative effort on improving the engine. After all, if Epic doesn't listen to the needs of their customers, they'll just stick to their own engines.
Most developers are now shifting to Unreal Engine 5. Despite its capabilities, the engine’s widespread adoption raises concerns about creativity stagnation, outsourcing inconsistencies, and monopolistic control by Epic Games.
Replies(3)
"Decima for the win"
Dated. PS4 tech.
Guerrilla is working on a next gen Decima Engine but we won´t see it until the next mainline Horizon game is out. Probably a PS6 launch game.
"Decima is the best engine of them all, now suck it!"
How was that? Did I do good?
These dated engines have produced some of the best-looking games around. You can check out death stranding for a good example, because you'll never play anything outside of your precious box, so how would you know?
@Hypertension140
"These dated engines have produced some of the best-looking games around. You can check out death stranding for a good example, because you'll never play anything outside of your precious box, so how would you know?"
I bough Death Stranding, dude. Check on my comment history. Decima is dated like you or not.
Hellblade II, Indiana Jones and Star Wars: Outlaws won Digital Foundry´s best looking games of 2024 for a reason.
And before you go mad calling DF biased:
https://www.youtube.com/wat...
Decima is still good, but dated. Nobody is impressed by Death Stranding 2´s graphics when compared to most heavy hitters coming this year.
It is what it is.
Death stranding 2 is using decima and it looks graphically amazing. Probably best in class
This really troubles me, given that Unreal Engine 5 games are not that performant this gen.
Perhaps the next iteration/update of Unreal Engine 5 will be much better however this does not negate the fact that most games look a bit alike using the same engine and tools.
CD Projekt Red, 343 and EA have shifted to Unreal Engine 5 which is a shame because RedEngine and Frostbite were solid game engines.
At least Capcom still uses RE Engine, Sony has Guerilla's amazing Decima engine and Ubisoft uses Snowdrop which keeps surprising us with stunners like Avatar and Star Wars Outlaws.
And we still have ID Tech 7
Only Respawn at EA uses UE, (coming from Source engine which still powers Apex), others still use Frostbite. Next BF will be on Frostbite, Dragon Age Veilguard was on Frostbite, Dead Space Remake was on Frostbite, NFS is still on Frostbite etc, etc.
Other devs who also abandoned their own good engines are eidos,crystal dynamics, IOI and slowly likely square enix as well.
As for proprietary engine which is still kicking around, you forgot Remedy's Northlight, Rockstar's RAGE, Avalanche's Apex, Monolith's Lithtech, ubisoft's AnvilNext(Snowdrop was created by UbisoftMassive for their own Division games, whereas other ubi studios used other proprietary engines like mainly Anvil, now for the first time, FarCry devs will abandon their own Duniya engine and will use Snowdrop for the next Farcry).
And of course there's CryEngine, powering Kingdom Deliverance 2 and Crysis 4 as well as Unity powering stunning upcoming games like No Rest for the Wicked
~fin~
That's kinda what annoys me about Epic and the unreal engine, since ps3 and 360 it's been the same issues, and all i hear is "maybe next gen" and next gen comes and the issues persist. I think UE is great for small studios, but man it is not suited for what a lot of studios use it for, and it's not well optimized. Some of the performance out of UE5 games make no sense.
“At least Capcom still uses RE Engine,”
I’m currently playing RE4R, and yeah that’s a nice one. I like playing different engines. Just never been a big UE fan, for one reason or another.
Most games should shift to unreal 5. It is proven and Epic is giving everyone a sweet deal on it. It's developer friendly and you don't have to pay them until your game starts making money
Stutter Engine 5, POS. ID Tech engines for future PC games. Indiana Jones runs so smooth on PC, I have no issues at all.
The former Bethesda art lead, Nate Purkeypile, argues that the studio would do better with Unreal Engine 5 despite the many performance concerns.
I feel like Bethesda are being stubborn simply because they know the Creation Engine and getting something new would mean they'd have to learn all about the ins and outs, experiment, re-learn things, put money into it, cause longer dev times initially as they learn as they go etc.
They've said in the past aswell that the Creation Engine has certain elements and features that helps them pull off things within their open world games, things you might not get to do with other engines but I think if they re-learn a new engine they'd be able to get these things working eventually through trial and error. It's not like the Creation Engine is a beast, look at how long it took to add climbable ladders.
I get them being reluctant, I do, it's hard to let something go and learn new things but the longer they put it off the harder it will be later down the road when it comes to finally biting the bullet. If they haven't done it for ESVI then I think they need to do it for Fallout 5.
Issue is if Todd doesn't want to switch they can't force him. He could simply leave Bethesda. MS bought the company not his rights. So as much as we want them to upgrade to a newer engine the choice might only be for Todd to make
Unlikely. Bethesda is refusing to budge.
At this point the bugs are features and everybody has accepted brainrot Bugthesda.
i don't think it's just being stubborn, there is no way that UE5 will be a good engine for supporting a game where every item you can get is actually a physical object. ES is one of the very few games that does this and I doubt much engines are equipped to handle a game like that.
Starfield's execution was dated ... but seeing how normal less-interactive games perform with UE5, I'd say BGS-esque games with Creation level of object permanence and scripting will run very sluggishly ... maybe they have to forcefully limit the scope/area ... like Obsidian had to do for New Vegas.
Maybe it's a possibility in PS6 gen, a BGS structure replicated in UE5 ... but this gen seems a bit questionable.
One thing they can do is remake any old title using UE ... to test if it works, by collabing with another team/studio like Virtuos, like recently leaked/rumored.
This way, their main team/devs won't have to split work and they can also test the waters how feasible UE is from BGS perspective.
I definitely don't want future BGS game to limit scope & lose their uniqueness just for switching to UE like any other studio. A modern Skyrim with some jank >> another generic UE RPG.
I say a UE BGS game will be very different.
Anyways ... ES6 was already underway long time back was started using a more modified Creation Engine than Starfield. If any engine change do happen, that'd be for Fallout 5 but that's 2030+ launch anyway. Well into PS6 gen.
Abandoned creation engine? sure for unreal engine 5? Hell no!
Unreal is and always has been trash for open world games, especially for RPGs, also a far cry from an optimized game engine, there's far better out there.
Honestly, I don't even think they HAVE to abandon the creation engine, but rather really put the effort into overhauling it like they did when they first created the creation engine modifying it out of the gamebryo engine
Like seriously they have money. They could hire some class A programmers to build them something really special and yet they just refuse to for some reason
^This
Stop the total conversion of industry to UE
# keep proprietary engines alive
Don't think anyone is in favour of a mass Exodus to Unreal Engine 5. It has its uses, but it's very pared back on console.
Plenty of great proprietary engines: FOX, Doom, Decima, Naughty Dog's engine, etc.
But the Creation Engine just doesn't seem good for modern games. Characters look weird. FOX could be great if updated to scale the lighting properly with the same attention to detail for things beyond faces. Decima, Doom, and ND Engines are already ahead of their generations, but of course refinements are always welcome.
All of those engine would benefit from updates, but Creation should probably either be scrapped or completely overhauled.
@DarXyde
Konami has abandoned Fox after Kojima left and has moved to UE primarily.
And you forgot to mention Remedy's Northlight, Capcom's RE and Rockstar's RAGE ~ the third party engine trio, showcasing you dont need UE5 for best visuals. Plus there's still CDPR's Red Engine, getting continuous updates still even though studio is moving to UE.
Crytek is also developing the next CryEngine, id is also developing the next idTech engine, Monolith should also be developing the next lithtech, unless they've also migrated to UE like other WB studios, then that'd be sad.
Other misses were, discontinuation of Eidos'/CD's/IOI's dawn/foundation/glacier engines ~ all three studios moved to UE.
But last but not least dont forget Ubisoft. Games maybe crap but their engine department is actually the better one. AnvilNext and Snowdrop is going strong.
RaidenBlack,
I'm pretty sure I said "etc". The short list I gave was absolutely not intended to be comprehensive.
And yes, I'm aware the FOX Engine was abandoned, but my point was that this is a good engine in that it would be great if adapted for the current generation.
I'm a bit iffy on RE though. I'd say it's great, but it really needs to be kept in context. Great linear game engine, but I question its utility in an open world. Naughty Dog's engine, I suspect, is very similar, where its limitations become clear in an open world setting.
This looks awesome.. especially that it's made by kne one dev