How Has Final Fantasy's Combat Changed Since Its Beginnings?

Over 36 years, Final Fantasy's combat systems evolved from turn-based to real-time battles, each game introducing unique strategic challenges.

[SullysCigar]

FF is one of the most versatile franchises out there. It's combat has varied LOADS over the years, and while it doesn't always sit well with traditionalists, it always seems to find it's audience.

[CrimsonWing69]

To me turn-based combat is turn-based. Whether there’s slight tweaks here or some differences like the junction system in FF8, they were all turn-based up until 15. 12 and 13 I’d still consider turn-based, just 12 it’s sort of MMO like. I think 12 was maybe when we really felt a departure for the series.

But I don’t get where people think combat has been like some different genre for every iteration, because it hasn’t been.

If I were to break down how FF games were they’d be like burgers, you might have one that’s a Big Mac, the other that’s a Quarter Pounder, one that’s a Whopper, but no matter what you’re always getting a burger despite the changes.

Now it’s like a pizza. So, for people wanting a burger they’re getting something that’s very different even if people say some of the burger ingredients are on the pizza… it’s still not what the traditionalists wanted.

We somehow came to a point now in defense of 16 by saying every single FF game is vastly different and I don’t agree from the core fundamental design of the games. Not until we get to 12. Technically 10, really. While that still had turn-based it did do away with things like a world map and how Simmons worked, but combat was still turn-based and that’s like the familiar gameplay linking most of the series, even if mechanics are different under the hood.

[MrNinosan]

Well, every Final Fantasy have had different combat, whatever you think or feel.
At the start, we had turn based (FF1-3), then we got ATB which is evolved turn based.
In FFX we went back to full Turn Based with hidden ATB.
Since FFXIII-2 action based has been evolved, but already in FFXII it was semi tested.

I'm happy that SquareSoft/Enix have been experimenting with the combat for 36 years, and the worst system imo was FFX, but that is also the best game according to me.
FFX-2 has the absolutely best ATB system, while FFXVI beats both FFVII:R and XV when it comes to action based.

Even so, I'm happy it's all there, but I would not like to go back to traditional turn based.

[CrimsonWing69]

@MrNinosan

“Well, every Final Fantasy have had different combat, whatever you think or feel.”

Can you answer a question for me?

Was the combat in FF1 - 10, turn based?

Yes or No?

[MrNinosan]

@crimson
1-3 + 10, yes.
The rest? "Semi turn-based".

However, Final Fantasy has always strived for evolution, and ever since FF1 the combat system has evolved more and more and where we withing FFXIII went past old "classic" turn based to what we see today, more action oriented.

Same with all genres.

SMB was a platform game on NES, and we still play as Mario in platform games, even thou it doesn't play out even close to what it did back in the mid 80s.

Racing game didn't have handbreaks, customization etc

Everything evolves, so does Final Fantasy, and the rpg genre.

[CrimsonWing69]

@MrNinosan

"@crimson
1-3 + 10, yes.
The rest? "Semi turn-based"."

That's my point, mechanics may be different under the hood, such as ATB, but essentially you're still doing an attack via menu and waiting for your turn to make another attack. ATB just means the enemies can attack you while you're sitting there taking forever to choose an action.

1 through 10, hell even 12 and 13, do not radically change the genre of the core-based battle. That's my comparison with a Whopper, Big Mac, Quarter Pounder, etc. I used that analogy for the very reason of anticipating your response. The battle system may have changes, but they are all still a "burger". You are still waiting for a time meter to fill after you make an action in all FF games up to 13... except 11, but you know what I mean.

"However, Final Fantasy has always strived for evolution, and ever since FF1 the combat system has evolved more and more and where we withing FFXIII went past old "classic" turn based to what we see today, more action oriented."

Strived for evolution while staying true to it's core. Yes, there's changes in settings, tweaks to the combat, but for the most part aside from aesthetics and turn-based mechanics they essentially were a "Final Fantasy game" where you followed a pretty similar structure of moving through a world for narrative, getting into random encounters or encounters in general and then having a menu to choose your actions while you waited for you turn again.

It was not that every FF game changed the genre of what it was and if each FF game strived for evolution like how you're trying to pitch it, then Yoshi P wouldn't have addressed why they're taking such a radical departure. So, no, FF games for the most part played very much like FF games albeit 10, 12, and 13 tried to different things in terms of 3D environments and combat. You could still identify them through core mechanics as being still very Final Fantasy.

Yoshi P even stated he wanted to make the changes because he couldn't understand how a modern crowd would want to sit there and choose an action like firing a gun via a menu and wait for that action to happen. His solution was to go to a genre that incidentally isn't accessible by everyone... which is so ironic.

And no, not all genres change the genre that they were established in.

Take Shin Megami Tensei or Persona, they're still turn-based after all these years.

A racing game like Gran Turismo doesn't change into a cart racer because modern gamers want to play more Mario Kart than a sim racer. COD hasn't turned into a turn-based RPG for combat. Resident Evil didn't turn into a 3D brawler.

My point is FF for most of the entire series was a turn-based JRPG where you chose actions in combat via a menu and went forward through a world unraveling a narrative. That's also why you have such divisive opinions on FF games like 12, 15, and 16. Less so with previous entries. You may hear people not liking the junction system in FF8, but it still played like a FF game. You may hear people from FF5 complaining that you don't get a job system in FF7, but it still played like an FF game.

So, my point is "mechanics" added to a "core battle system" is not the same as changing the "genre" of game in a battle system (I.e. the whole burger and pizza analogy). That drastic change is what becomes divisive and it's not something that's been in the majority of FF titles.

Make sense?

[FallenAngel1984]

@ Crimson

Saying FFXII is turn based is like saying FFXI, FFXIV, Dragon Age: Origins, Xenoblade 1-3 are turn based

[CrimsonWing69]

Ok, excluding 12 then.

I’m talking more fundamentally to it’s core it’s not that dissimilar to the traditional menu system and waiting for your turn, which I mean… it’s the whole turn-based with ATB hybrid.

But yea, we’ll pull that from the list for arguments sake. After all, I do agree that once 12 came on the scene things did feel decidedly different in terms of how the games have been from 1 - 10.

But that’s too my point. From 1 - 10 they may have varying mechanics attached to turn-based/menu-based combat, but they’ve all been pretty recognizable in the traditional sense of the FF IP.

If you told me FF12 or FF16 were actual brand new Square Enix IPs with no association to Final Fantasy, I’d totally believe you. That’s all I’m saying.

We’ve hit this weird turn where people come to defend FF16 when traditionalists explain that FF isn’t recognizable. All I’m pointing out is that it’s not crazy what they’re saying because FF absolutely has recognizable traits albeit different settings, characters, narrative, but at the core they played very much like FF games.

These new ones are pretty different and pretty divisive and the argument that “all Final Fantasy games are different” doesn’t exactly stick. Hell, play the pixel remasters from 1-6 I do not feel like I’m playing various genres of games. Same with 7-9. Then 10 takes it into some different territory, but still keeps the core of the series in terms of battle and narrative/gameplay progression.

12 is where we finally do some things that are very different and from there on it really hasn’t felt “Final Fantasy.”

[Pickledpepper]

I used to love FF till they took turn bse out of the mix, now it just a hack n slash.
Turn base took skill and strategic planning now its just botton mashing.

[CrimsonWing69]

Well to be fair if you take the easy mode auto rings off, there’s a ton of strategy.

Look at the Maximilian Dood vid where he fights Atlas from the Square press event. A person would absolutely be delusional if they thought that they could “button mash” that way through that and there’s 0 strategy involved.

In fact all bosses require strategy. The unfortunate thing is Square put in an easy mode with literal accessories that auto-combo, auto-dodge, auto-heal, etc. that require a single button input to execute and many people are unaware of seeing above the character’s health bar that these are equipped. As a result a lot of people are saying it’s a “button masher,” which is absolutely untrue unless you’re on easy mode.

I’m with you about turn-based though. The whole “appealing” to modern gamers with pulling mechanics from a different genre isn’t really the direction I think this series needs to go.

I look at the battles in Ever Crisis and I question why they can’t just keep that in the modern console entries 🤷‍♂️