Yes, Redfall was originally planned for PS5

The game's creative director, Harvey Smith talks about the impact of the acquisition of Bethesda by Microsoft in 2021, right during the development of Redfall.

[sparky77]

Obviously, it was in development before MS brought them.

[SullysCigar]

So it was in development for PS5, Microsoft purchased Bethesda and then cancelled PS5 version. That's not a good look from a trust perspective, bearing in mind where they're at with the ABK acquisition..

[Lightning77]

In this case there was no contracts to be honored with Sony like DL and GW.

[SullysCigar]

^ @Lightning77, Development started the year BEFORE the acquisition. Microsoft then came in and told them to ditch PS5.

First of all, that's hardly in line with what Phil has claimed about not "liking exclusives", because that's "not what gaming's about", or his claims to the regulatory bodies that he just wants to get these games to as many players as possible, is it..?

Secondly, who spends millions of dollars over the course of more than a year on development for a platform...without a contract?

[darthv72]

"That's not a good look from a trust perspective"... how so? The game wasnt under obligation / contract like deathloop was. Now if they canceled Deathloop after it was announced, then sure it would be a bad look. That was not the case with this though. Plus I'd imagine there would be grounds for a lawsuit over breech of contract, again that is not the case here.

To your last part about who does work without a contract... you'd be surprised that in order to be granted a contract there are those who need something to pitch the idea. Lets assume they got far enough to that point but didnt get to pitch it because by then MS bought Zenimax. Now they didnt have to worry about a contract to budget the remainder of the game. MS would cover that automatically.

[Obscure_Observer]

"Secondly, who spends millions of dollars over the course of more than a year on development for a platform...without a contract?"

Sony. Otherwise MS would honor Redfall´s deal with Playstation just like they did with GWT and Deathloop.

And in case you don´t know or forgot, GWT will be getting a massive update on PS5 so don´t tell me MS is not honoring prior Bethesda/Playstation deals.

[Anomander]

@Darth agreed. Just got done reading about an update to a game I backed on Kickstarter. Progress is going good, but still no publisher yet and they are working on polishing the demo to attract a publisher (hence the Kickstarter). It does take money and time to show you have something. You can't just pitch the idea to them and expect it to be greenlighted.

[Reaper22_]

Trust perspective? It wasn't a good look for Sony either when they did it to Sega many years ago. If you didn't know , sony used to pay to keep games off of Sega's console. Gamers can be so hypocritical sometimes.

[Lightning77]

"First of all, that's hardly in line with what Phil has claimed about not "liking exclusives", because that's "not what gaming's about", or his claims to the regulatory bodies that he just wants to get these games to as many players as possible, is it..?"

What you're talking about is COD not Redfall. Two different games and situations. Jim isn't fighting for Redfall or any other Bethesda game. Plus even if he did care so much about Bethesda why didn't he oppose that merger from. The beginning?

Yep and he can do just that with PC, Steam, Xcloud, Epic game store even Boosteroid if he wanted to.

Plenty of places to put it not exclusive only to Xbox.

[Christopher]

***In this case there was no contracts to be honored with Sony like DL and GW.***

It's still not a good look considering Microsoft's whole thing is claiming they will make games available to more people and this proves that false considering Redfall is dropping a large portion of the gamers. With them spending the money they are to control some of the most valuable third-party IPs, this is the thing that the agencies are looking to ensure it's not anti-competitive. And part of that is how Microsoft would control the IPs, withhold it from existing player bases that tend to experience those games, let alone the more popular fanbase.

[sparky77]

They never promised it for PS5, if it was announced for PS5 it would have been released.

Just like how there was likely a FF7:R and FF16 Xbox version until Sony paid to cut it.

[GotGame818]

Why don't gamers just have both consoles and shut up? I had SNES and Genesis, PS 1 and N64. I have always had the top 2 consoles! People need to get over it.

Senuas Sacrifice released had 8 minutes of gameplay released, and it looks incredible!

Don't want an Xbox? Play on PC! You don't need to have a powerful PC, but good internet would help. You can stream them for gosh sake!

I have PS5 and I can't stream any PS5 games! Watch People disagree. I don't care. I can cross save Xbox games to my PC, and even my phone.

"Xbox has no games" now a bunch are coming out, PC and Series owners aren't complaining!

[Lightning77]

"It's still not a good look considering Microsoft's whole thing is claiming they will make games available to more people and this proves that false"

They have its on everything with the exception of Sony and even Nintendo.
withhold it from existing player bases that tend to experience those

"withhold it from existing player bases that tend to experience those"

Because they own those franchises. They can do as they please. It's not as bad as keeping 3rd party games off other platform by calling it "timed" when it's not timed.

Tell that Sony who paid to keep Stellar Blade off Xbox. A game that was announced as a multiplatform. Funny how I always bring that up and yet nobody has an answer for it.

@Chris Btw nice of you to ignore my pm. You just marked me as inappropriate for no reason in the redfall article.

[Christopher]

***Why don't gamers just have both consoles and shut up? I had SNES and Genesis, PS 1 and N64. I have always had the top 2 consoles! People need to get over it.***

Stop being poor! Dang it people. Boostraps it!

***They have its on everything with the exception of Sony and even Nintendo.
withhold it from existing player bases that tend to experience those***

Yes, and if you're paying attention, that's fewer gamers than if Bethesda would release the game on the platforms it had initially planned for. So, like I said, the opposite of what Microsoft is claiming. Thank you.

[COS]

In development is general and we have no idea how far. That being said, MS made no commitment to offer all Bethesda games on Sony. It has no relevance to ABK as it happened well before ABK. Apparetly SullyCigar knows how much they spent, so ask him lol

[Seraphim]

@ SullysCigar - contracts only exist when a deal is made. 3rd party publishers/developers don't need a contract to develop a game for consoles or PC. This is also why you often see smaller teams focus on one platform, because they don't have the funding to develop their game for multiple consoles. For major 3rd party publishers there is ample funding so they choose which consoles to release the game on, and begin development, though, obviously there's more to it before even going into development.

It's still a bad look, especially considering the comments Phil has made.

[edeprez]

@darth. Breech is when a baby is birthed backwards, and makes birth difficult and dangerous. Breach is probably the word you were looking for.

[bloop]

Hmmm, you have to wonder what the devs think about this. Redfall was never going to be a system seller so they've just cut a huge chunk of potential sales.

[Godmars290]

Its going to be on Game Pass, which cuts even more into the potential sales it could have had.

[Obscure_Observer]

@Godmars290

"Its going to be on Game Pass, which cuts even more into the potential sales it could have had."

Redfall will be available on STEAM and Epic, to not available on PS5 is only natural once its a first party xbox IP

[Godmars290]

" to not available on PS5 is only natural once its a first party xbox IP"

So is Minecraft. Yet mention it being on everything including PS system at every opportunity.

Also missing the point that MS "First party" at this point use to be a 3rd party they bought.

[Crows90]

Devs don't get to choose...they've been bought and their opinions were most definitely not taken into account... Higher ups exchanged hands that's all.

[bloop]

@Obscure: Who's going to buy it on Steam or Epic when game pass is available on PC? Everyone will play the game for €1 and that will be that, whereas a PS release could have generated some kind of revenue from actual sales. I don't know how anyone thinks this model is sustainable or good for the industry.

[Zhipp]

Well, in the interview the creative director speculates that it may be their biggest game due to the number of people who may play it on gamepass. Of course that still largely depends on the quality of the title whether people will give it the time of day.

[Abracadabra]

Wow! The amount of hypocrites in this thread is absurd...

[Hofstaderman]

The so called amount of hypocrites are typically representative of the amount of people who chose to buy a ps5 over a series console. Get used to getting 8 disagrees for every agree.
Besides that the amount of trash being spouted by the MS supporters deserve all these disagrees.
Whether you like it or not the trade commissions will take this scenario into account.

[wiz7191]

@Hofstaderman what scenario?? Redfall isn’t COD .. Redfall is a new IP , regardless Bethesda needed to go multi platform to survive at one point .. Now they don’t since they are backed by MS , that’s the difference. The irony about this is where’s the FF remake at ?? Sony doesn’t even own them but blocking Square from releasing it on XBOX. That exclusive contract been up for two years now , still no game. Why is Silent Hill going to be exclusive ? When Xbox got SH 2 and 3. At lease MS

[Tapani]

I bet it was a single-player thinker shooter originally like Prey and MS bought it and said "hey, why don't we make this GaaS!?" and Arkane said "No!" and then MS said "Okay, we need to compromise here, so co-op multiplayer with always online at the very least (or we fire you)" and they said "Okay, fine. (I wish Sony bought us...)". Then, the abomination called Redfall was born. This is coming from a Arkane fan boy, and someone who liked Harvey Smith's work before.

[neutralgamer1992]

This is only surprising to select few who I believe themselves weren't in totally buying their own lies

Same will happen with Activision acquisition. Most unannounced games will be quietly cancelled and we will find out only when someone leaks it. Sony would do the same if they bought Capcom or square enix. Logically when you pay billions for something you want to gain the benefits

Only issue I have is how certain people get on their high horses and talk a big game yet do the complete opposite. Phil was always talking against exclusives, timed exclusives and exclusive dlc yet his actions have the same consequences

Ask yourself this though

After Activision who's next and who's buying who? Gamers now a days don't think about long term ramifications of what's going on today

That's why I believe that Activision along with any publishers being bought should be rejected by that's not pro consumer

[Extermin8or3_]

Here here some sense and well after activision the regulators won't be allowing MS a third publisher... not unless they are rescuing one that has gone broke. So I think Sony have no incentive to buy square as they have alot of agreements with them anyway. Ubisoft has been struggling and is looking rather cheap and word is EA have been looking to be bought because its board and investors are grubby, greedy pricks. I'd say ubisoft would be the better bet with Sony as the purchaser. Ofc there is that rumour that Sony would go after take two- it would cost them but tbh that's the one to have after activision. GTA and Red dead redemption are such big franchises and they fit in well with PlayStation other offerings. I also wouldn't be shocked to see Sony purchase developers from publishers... I think they need a studio capable of making western rpg's imo.

[wiz7191]

And so what . It was only a year into development now Microsoft is funding development until the game is completed .. they wasn’t funding it first now they’re so why would they make it multi plat ??? Where’s Bloodborne at ?? FromSoftware is a third party studio. Where’s FF7 remake ? Square again is a multi plat studio. Why is Silent Hill going to be exclusive ?? Sony only fans are a bunch of hypocrites. At lease MS are making game exclusive that THEY ARE FUNDING 100% , I don’t see Bungie next game being multi plat .. and same for Insomniac , after making a game for Xbox they got bought and the next game is exclusive .. Spider man ring bells ??

[WiiU-Dude]

Phil doesn't like 3rd party exclusives. They bought Bethesda and Redfall has never been on a Sony platform...it became a Microsoft exclusive. That's different than COD having been multiplatform. I doubt Sony is going to start putting it's games on Xbox to show regulators it plays fair unlike Microsoft. Lol.

[darthv72]

Everyone knows this, same with starfield. I don't know if either were officially announced for PS5 before the Zenimax sale went through. Games like Deathloop and Ghostwire had their contracts honored so maybe the other two weren't announced beforehand?

[gangsta_red]

None of them were officially announced for PS5. There was no obligation from Bethesda to keep production on a game on another console after the company was bought by MS.

[Babadook7]

It’s not a breach in contract, sure.

I think the key take away is that if a company has the cash to buy exclusives from its competition (potentially the majority of the industry), and has shown they want to, it could be a problem for said industry. Promising to give their competition some support isn't necessarily a sufficient consolation prize either. What happens down the road? What if they gimp Playstation versions? Etc.

[gangsta_red]

@Babadook

"if a company has the cash to buy exclusives from its competition (potentially the majority of the industry), and has shown they want to, it could be a problem for said industry."

Not sure if you're referring to Sony with this line, because in this instance, MS has bought an entire publisher and has made their future games exclusive to the Xbox platforms. Sony has been actively buying third party games and making them timed exclusives or straight up exclusives.

I really don't understand why all of a sudden other people, especially on this site are now having a hard time understanding how first party studios function. We all know that first party developers make games for the platform holders that own them. There were special cases with Zenimax where contracts were honored, now that those have been fulfilled, they're moving to focus on Xbox.

"What happens down the road? What if they gimp Playstation versions? Etc."

There has been zero evidence of this ever happening between the two, so it doesn't make any type of sense to base discussions off of what if's and maybe's. MS has continued to support Minecraft on all other platforms and hasn't gimped the game for Playstation, they are also releasing the next Minecraft Legends on Playstation.

Sony has also not gimped MLB: The Show even when the game appears day and date on Game Pass. These companies are competing but they would not intentionally sabotage their own game only because it's on another platform.

[Godmars290]

Not being announced is not the same as not being development, which they very likely were.

Not that it matters at this point. The crime are the hundreds of unannounced titles no one outside their devs teams, the publishers who axed them, no one knows about.

And then there's Titianfall 3....

[gangsta_red]

@godmars

"Not being announced is not the same as not being development, which they very likely were."

It's very much the same. Because there was never a commitment to release on another platform.

And yes, none of this matters because we can ponder what may or may not have been in development from now to the end of time, but the facts are Zenimax is a MS first party development house and they are making games for Xbox platforms. The same way Sony's first party developers make games for the PlayStation platform.

"And then there's Titianfall 3.."

Do you know something we don't?

[darthv72]

@god, to your comment about "Not being announced is not the same as not being development" we can also say that being in development is not the same as being obligated or contracted. Many games have started development on a platform, even been shown as officially coming but then things change. That stellar blade game comes to mind. The dev changed their focus at some point... it happens.

[Obscure_Observer]

"None of them were officially announced for PS5. There was no obligation from Bethesda to keep production on a game on another console after the company was bought by MS."

Absolutely. Sony is only getting some of their own medicine. They will not allow their first party games on Xbox, so Phil is doing the right thing to make those games exclusive to Xbox as it should be

[FlintGREY]

@Gangsta
You have to remember Starfield started development during the PS360 generation. It was definitely coming to Playstation at one point

[Godmars290]

"Do you know something we don't?"

You didn't hear that EA canned an in development TF3?

[gangsta_red]

@Godmars

"You didn't hear that EA canned an in development TF3?"

Oh, I thought it was Titanfall Legends that was cancelled, not Titanfall 3.

@FlintGREY

I'm sure there was development for it, but that's neither here nor there. The game was never announced to be coming to Playstation and Zenimax/Bethesda was bought by MS making them a first party studio(s). The game is now a first party title coming to Xbox platforms.

[AmUnRa]

And the damagecontrol of Xboxfans is getting hilarious, they been screaming for the rooftops that there where no games in development for the PS5 version...turns out, they where. MS stopped that development and lied to the regulators. So the deal got trough.
How do you think that the regulators will ignore that? Now Xboxfans are saying but PSgamers are hating on Redfall during the previews.But that does not matter, right?
Thats deflecting a lie, and trying to sugercoat a lie...

[richardmmorales]

They didn't lie. They never said these games were gonna be on Playstation.
All I see are Playstation fans claiming that Microsoft said and did things that they didn't when it comes to the Zenimax/Bethesda acquisition. Even the EU Commission clarified this when the FTC tried to use that as an argument.

[Crows90]

Really? All I see is people pretending otherwise. All these "new" games were all planned for playstation as well. Xbox came in and bought out the IP.

[SolidusSn4ke]

You buy a company, you have the right to make product changes 🤷‍♂️

[mandf]

Only once business agreements are honored.

[bleedsoe9mm]

You have a right not to honor them as well although you'll have to pay

[Crows90]

No one is debating that. That's common sense even if Phil pretends differently and Xbox fans pretend those changes never happened.

Common sense prevails yet again. Of course all current and some future zenimax games were originally planned for playstation. Xbox of course came in and bought the IP to prevent that and "compete" by making games less available to gamers that were going to get those games.

[gangsta_red]

Originally planned and plans change, especially if a developer is bought by a console maker therefore becoming a first party studio.

You can't complain about MS not having games for Xbox and then turn around and complain that MS isn't releasing their first party games on Playstation.

[Lightning77]

It's because MS is doing it wrong remember? They're not playing by the imaginary rules of building studios from the ground up in order for it to count as an exclusive.

Sony only nourished Studios only after buying them up originally.

[Traecy]

That's what a "real" first party studio is. A company buying a publisher that owns studios including making multiplat games for years is all of a sudden a first party studio is a facade...lol.

[outsider1624]

Lol like you even cared before about the games before. Im pretty sure you gave to google naughty dogs games before they became first party of Sony's.

Anyway im not fussing about this whole acquisition. But its funny though..ms with all their money couldn't make theirs with endless amount of money they have.
I wonder if any of these games fail..Ms will be like "hmm...looks like we have to buy EA and Take2 too."

[IamTylerDurden1]

And it shows.

You can jest like cultivating relationships organically over yrs or decades has no benefit but look the results. Who's first party are more consistent? Look at the growth from Insomniac, Housemarque, Bluepoint, Guerrilla, Sucker Punch, even ND and Santa Monica over the yrs. What MS studio has dramatically improved under the wing of MS? The only one is Playground imo which was the exact type of second party leads to acquisition relationship Sony exercises. Is Halo or Gears in a better place now than it was yrs ago? How's 343? The Initiative? Undead? What's Compulsion doing? What has Ninja Theory done in 4-5 yrs under MS? Has Rare been better since leaving Nintendo? What happened to Lionhead? Take away Bethesda n ABK, take away the spending spree of random studios late last gen and MS is bare. Completely. Their ability to manage studios n organically cultivate relationships is atrocious and it shows. Not to say other pubs are perfect but Nintendo and Sony have certainly had better results and their's a reason.

Also, to act like putting a ring on the finger of 2nd party studios who's games were already exclusive is in any way the same as gobbling up pure multiplat 3rd party devs n pubs is asinine. And MS has invested in the studios they acquire as well. In terms of "nourishment" ofc MS is investing in these studios but the results aren't the same bc MS isn't the same quality of publisher nor do they invest the same time n energy into making sure the acquisitions are the right fit. They just more so toss money around and the results show.

[Crows90]

Except nobody is making that imaginary comment you're imposing on PlayStation fans. All they're saying is that it's kinda a bad precedent to start buying 3rd party IP left and right to preven those IP from releasing on competitors platforms. Sony buys timed and those devs are free to release afterwards. They don't because it's not lucrative to release on a platform where they don't sell much.

@lightning77
If the roles were reversed you bet I'd be there attacking Sony for buying or attempting to buy CoD and obviously/inevitably making it exclusive. That shit has no place in the gaming industry. 3rd party multiplatform IP should stay as is. But of course we have Xbox to thank for all the bad trends in gaming.

[outsider1624]

"If the roles were reversed you bet I'd be there attacking Sony for buying or attempting to buy CoD and obviously/inevitably making it exclusive. That shit has no place in the gaming industry. 3rd party multiplatform IP should stay as is. But of course we have Xbox to thank for all the bad trends in gaming."

You're right but this time, if sony buys a whole publisher...I'll be like well Ms started it. They started with the pay to play online too.

[Crows90]

@outsider
But you see thats a childish level of maturity and principles. You throw them out the window if someone else does something?

If its bad when one does it...its bad when they all do it. But definitely will be pathetic to see some here even breathe a sigh of frustration if sony decides to buy a publisher and developer like capcom or square enix.

[IamTylerDurden1]

If ABK goes through it changes the rules of engagement imo. I'm not in favor of pub acquisitions but if Sony were to then buy SE i mean...what are they supposed to do if it becomes an arms race? MS, Embracer, Tencent are sailing this thing into unsavory n dangerous waters. Industry consolidation. At some point the likes of Sony will be forced to follow suit. Ofc ppl will call them hypocrits but if the landscape of your industry changes you either adapt, innovate, or die. U can say MS simply acquired these devs/pubs as a response to Embracer/Tencent but it's more likely a response to Sony/support for GP/lack of exclusives.

[richardmmorales]

Yet Playstation fans are claiming Microsoft lied or said things they never said. Even the EU Commission clarified this when the FTC tried use it as an argument for their case. If the roles were reversed no one would be complaining and the Sony would definitely be making it exclusive ASAP. The only reason MBL The Show is multiplatform though Sony makes the game is because Major League Baseball would of pulled the license and forced them to make it multiplatform.

[IamTylerDurden1]

It's comical that u condemn Sony for keeping single games off XB usually for a timed period but u cheer MS acquiring publishers and cancelling in development PS versions and banishing new releases for numerous industry leading IP from PS forever. All bc it's a different business deal. "Acquisition means it's ok to keep games off PS" u are literally cheering for a more extreme version of what u condemn Sony for. Casuals don't care about the minutia, they don't care about the business side, they care that their most anticipated or most beloved IP will never release on their platform. It's wildly hypocritical to cheer the Bethesda/ABK deals and condemn the Final Fantasy or Silent Hill deals for example. Furthermore, pub acquisition doesn't always mean exclusivity look at the Bungie deal. Beyond that, MS went out of their way to cancel in development versions of Redfall n Starfield on PS which i find extreme and petty considering a multiplat release with the sequel being exclusive would make more money n draw PS fans into the sequel/XB ecosystem. It imo makes more sense especially considering XB relies mostly on day 1 GP as opposed to outright exclusivity. In conclusion, MS went out of their way to keep games off PS, tossing time/work in the bin even when it doesn't appear to make business sense yet u completely give them a pass. From a company that plays good guy and preaches "when everyone plays we win" or similar rhetoric. A company who cries about Sony keeping games off XB yet this is the mother of keeping games off a platform. And to excuse it like publisher acquisitions of this nature are common place is total bs. It is literally unprecedented particularly back to back and the only similar example from Sony "Bungie" did not operate in this capacity unless it's merely a long con which both Sony/Bungie would get roasted for or maybe even sued.

You can't cry about keeping games off platforms when your team is doing it with the greatest gusto. These weren't 2nd party studio acquisitions like we see with Housemarque, BP, Insomniac. They aren't timed or exclusivity deals on PS centric games like FF. This is strong arm acquisition of entire industry leading multiplat publishers that will banish massive IP from PS forever. It's not business as usual, it's not common, and it's not helping competition. It's the most extreme example of keeping games off of a platform and the sheer fact that ppl like u attempt to play every angle to your advantage disgusts me. Bad when Sony does it, good when MS does. Tencent/Embracer bad for the industry, MS good. Either u are for industry consolidation which would make u pro Tencent/Embracer as well, or u are against it. Either u are ok with keeping games of certain platforms or not. U cry when other companies do it but cheer when your own does. Comical.

[yarbie1000]

Lies of P

Phil Spencer said there was no proof they bought Bethesda and removed games from PlayStation. Phil is a liar

[-Foxtrot]

Gee Whizz

Colour us all shocked

[Asplundh]

You may not like it, but what he said was technically correct. You can't remove something that was never there. It was never announced for the system and so there was nothing to honor.

[SonyStyled]

He said “we don’t intend to remove game access to gamers” after the Zenimax acquisition, and then said “Bethesda games will release on other platforms on a ‘case by case’ basis” (giving cue to Elder Scrolls and Fallout sequels on PS), to later say “Bethesda games will release where Gamepass is available.”

You’re right from the words of Phill, and nothing can be removed from a platform when a game never released for a platform. Everyone knows that. Everyone knows why a game is cancelled from another platform when purchased by a console manufacturer, new IP or established.

I really did believe MS was going to release Bethesda games on PlayStation post acquisition. MS technically didn’t lie because we have yet to see “case by case” releases, but it’s all so far cancelled on PS. The only Bethesda games that have been released post MS acquisition have been the two games PS had timed exclusively for during development prior to MS. It’s deceiving terminology moving forward

[badz149]

@SonyStyled

"nothing can be removed from a platform when a game never released for a platform."

so why are the xbox crowd always blaming Sony for FF7 Remake? MS said Sony blocked the game from coming to Xbox, but WHEN has the game announced for xbox? there never was any official announcement, thus making the game NEVER EXISTED for xbox to begin with!

[Crows90]

Can you not read? Redfall was originally planned for ps5...So was starfield and a myriad other titles.

[Asplundh]

@Crows
They prevented games from coming to Playstation yes that's obvious, but what have they "removed" from Playstation?

[IamTylerDurden1]

Asplundh

They removed the work of the studios who were literally developing the game for PS. Redfall and Starfield did exist on PS and there was code to back it up. They absolutely REMOVED the in development game from PS that is hard fact. MS REMOVED something that certainly existed. It was planned and being developed on PS and it was removed.

[Asplundh]

@Tyler
"They removed the work of the studios who were literally developing the game for PS"

Nope you're describing work being STOPED, not Removed. I'm sure Bethesda still has the work that was done on a Playstation version setting around somewhere.

[FallenAngel1984]

In 2017, Phil Spencer says he doesn’t like exclusives

https://www.kitguru.net/cha...

In 2020, Phil Spencer says exclusives aren’t what gaming is about

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2...

What a change that buying a major publisher can make. Phil Spencer can’t get any more two faced

[gangsta_red]

Where's the lie? These games are available on Xbox, PC, Cloud and whatever device GP is available on...so technically they're not exclusive.

[Vengeance1138]

lmao the mental gymnastics involved here! oh boy!

[gold_drake]

im not sure if ur vision is blurry or your delusions got the better of you, but FA never actually said he lied.

he said he is two faced. which is very true.

being two faced and being a liar aint the same thing.

[gangsta_red]

@Curtain

"Phil Spencer says he doesn’t like exclusives..."

"Phil Spencer says exclusives aren’t what gaming is about"

Two faced about what?! Again, where is the lie with those links he left?

I think it's even more hilarious using a word like 'two face' that has zero context to the comment.

It's funny none of you can actually explain anything, you just double down on the name calling.

[darkrider]

On consoles they are. The biggest market and seller. The talk of the cloud....

[Hofstaderman]

The flip flopping. You guys are really hilarious.

[IamFrasierCrane]

Don’t you remember? When Xbox exclusives started to release on PC, Xbox fanboys changed the definition of the word exclusive. I believe you guys called it “console exclusive” so by your logic, if Xbox is the only “console” the game is available on it’s still exclusive. Or does that not fit your narrative anymore now that it conflicts with Phil Spencer’s hypocrisy?

“It’s funny none of you can actually explain anything”

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[outsider1624]

"It’s well known that each platform focuses heavily on exclusive games and their respective DLC, a delight to many of the system owners and a curse to those cut off from potentially enjoying what the game has to offer."
Doesn't take a genius to figure this out does it. We all know what it means. When Phil was asked about exclusives this was what was implied. So when he says he doesn't like exclusives and straight up buy a whole publisher with many years of games on all consoles..suddenly cut off..is kinda Two faced you know!

[IanTH]

Phil said, in that Kotaku article:

“I find it completely counter to what gaming is about to say that part of that is to lock people away from being able to experience those games."

He is locking games away from PlayStation gamers. That's a hard one to misinterpret.

[Crows90]

LOL keep it up. This is definitely entertaining.

But let me help you use your critical thinking skills here.

He said two face because with the first link..."doesn’t like exclusives"
If thats the case then why not release on everything. When a game doesn't release on a certain platform it becomes semi exclusive to certain platforms. Thats the meaning of exclusivity..only some get to enjoy it.

"exclusives aren’t what gaming is about"
And yet the Zenimax acquisiton which was already huge and the ActiBlizz acqusition which is in process are all about making games exclusive to the xbox ecosystem.

So little ol phil here says one thing to garner applause and then acts on completely different principles. That is two faced.

[Lightning77]

Did you not read your own links or something? In the first link he's talking DLC, skins, expansions not being exclusive. Not locking those away like the competitor does.
The second is not having games exclusive to a single box. Xbox games end up on Steam, Windows, epic game store where ever else as long it's not on a competitors store front or console.

You didnt bother to fact check your own links?

[gangsta_red]

They're desperate for a 'gotcha' moment that isn't there.

If they really wanted one they need to find a true example like for instance Stellar Blade. How that game was actually shown and announced for Xbox, PS5 and such and then later Sony took it off Xbox platforms and is now publishing the game.

https://www.dexerto.com/gam...

[Extermin8or3_]

MICROSOFT STARTED THAT TREND OF LOCKING DOWN DLC AND SKINS ETC.

[IanTH]

In some ways, I'll agree, it isn't as cut and dry. But in that Kotaku article, Phil did say:

“I find it completely counter to what gaming is about to say that part of that is to lock people away from being able to experience those games."

He is locking games away from PlayStation gamers. That's a hard one to misinterpret.

[thesoftware730]

It's so simple to understand that the man was talking about keeping games locked to one console.

Xbox, PC, Smart Phone, Samsung T.Vs, and Rival cloud services, seem to keep with what he is saying.

Then a step further, tell me all the Sony-produced first-party games on rival systems besides the forced MLB games, and Destiny, which was already pre-existing.

Microsoft released the Ori series on the Switch, and Minecraft dungeons on PS5, and continues support of the highest level to all the preexisting games they now own. Minecraft, Minecraft Dungeons, ESO, Fallout 76, Skyrim, Dethloop, and Ghost wire. Every single one of these games and more can be played without an Xbox...Sony's main competitor.

No matter people's justifications, the same can't be said about Sony games.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

Mlb is on Xbox. Several Sony games and counting are on PC, so according to you and Phil Sony isn't locking games to a single box either, so I wonder who he talking to when he made that statement.

[DOMination-]

That isn't the same thing.

MLB is only on Xbox because that version is not actually published by Sony and part of the deal they signed to carry on developing it. That is Sony honouring a contract, much like Microsoft did with Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo and continue to do so with FO76, ESO and Mincecraft.

[thesoftware730]

Outside,

You obviously did not read my post.

"Then a step further, tell me all the Sony-produced first-party games on rival systems besides the forced MLB games, and Destiny, which was already pre-existing."

Then you missed the point, the whole argument from Sony-Only fans is about MS making everything exclusive, and locking them away behind Xbox. My post was in direct response to what Fallenangel said.

Then you count the handful of recently released Sony games on PC, Something they said they wouldn't do, then had to course correct because it is clear that they were leaving money on the table. and they still have one foot in, and one foot out. The point being MS is not committing anything egregious here, when it comes to exclusive hoarding, Sony is the top offender. So wrong or right matters not, it's dogging one MS for the same practice that Sony is getting a pass for.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

"it's dogging one MS for the same practice that Sony is getting a pass for."

Sony bought multiplatform publishers like Zenimax and Activision and made their games exclusive? People dogging Sony for timed exclusives while give MS a pass is the 1:1 same practice scenario you are looking for.

[Extermin8or3_]

You know except all sonys exclusives that are on pc now.... at a later date but still on pc. Moat of their exclusives dating back to at least 2016.... so your wrong the same can be said of Sony's titles.

[darkrider]

Dude, Phil just says PR lies. Whatever he says in that moment is always fake. He always spin stuff

[Hofstaderman]

Phil is to gaming what Micheal Patcher is to market analytics…

[CrimsonWing69]

Let's be real, he was absolutely full of sh*t and tried doing that whole "we're a team player and good sport" bit.

Like when he'd tweet congratulations when the competition smoked them with an exclusive that sold bangers.

It was so cringe. But let's be real, exclusives are absolutely what drives consumers to buy your product over a competitor's.

[Traecy]

Basically a liar.

[IamTylerDurden1]

He also said play the game not the resolution then went on a "true 4K" kick. He condemned VR then pretended MS was supporting VR from Lenovo and developing a VR game only to have it all vanish after they were done stealing headlines from PSVR. Sp games didn't matter only to acquire one of the biggest sp pubs in gaming, Bethesda. PS4 Pro was fake 4K bc it used checkerboard/dynamic at times yet the MS definition of true 4K on the XB1X/Scorpio ledger included dynamic and checkerboard rendering. From Teraflops to toolsets, world's most power console to world's most powerful XB MS is as bad as it gets in terms of lies, spin, manipulation. Phil has mastered corporate jargon. Every word is carefully chosen as not to incriminate himself or the company. It's like he speaks in code. What else would u expect from one of the world's richest companies? Yet somehow his fans still view him as an honest every man. I'm not saying he hasn't helped XB become relevant, he's made some great moves, but the man is as real as a 3 dollar bill. To me, it's borderline nauseating to watch him perform. The fakeness jumps off screen. The calculated wording, the calculated wardrobe, the facial expressions, the look. It feels like a dressed up politician.

[HardKnockKid24]

Queue the flood of “MS stole games from PS” Can’t wait to see the landscape 5 years from now when everyone has moved on. Sony owns what they own and MS Owns what they own and both companies can do with those products what they’d like to. Wish I had a trillion dollars, I’d buy all the fanboys PS5’s and Xbox’s haha

[Aloymetal]

''Can’t wait to see the landscape 5 years from now''
You don't have to wait 5 yrs to know that since absolutely nothing will change. PS will continue to be the market leader and out of the three, xbox will continue to be the less relevant platform around the planet.
Feel free to comeback to this post for future reference.

[DOMination-]

I think you're probably right in that PS will continue to be the market leader but then the question has to be.. why are so many people so upset? Including yourself looking through your comment history...

For years, people here said that MS needed more studios and more exclusives. Maybe you should be careful what you wish for in future.

[SoulWarrior]

@dom

It sets a precendent though, what if in say 5 years not much has changed, should MS then be allowed to buy up another massive publisher or 2 for the sake of 'competition'? They aren't entitled to bigger market share, but of course in typical MS fashion they are trying to buy it and not earn it.

[Crows90]

@dom

Yeah definitely funny. We all shouldve been more clear that obviously we wanted them to step up their game and make good games. I dont think anybody expected that they would then decide to buy 3rd party IP and make those exclusive...its like...cmon...you didnt step up your game you simply bought the game.

[Hofstaderman]

Were you foaming at the mouth when you typed this? Is your keyboard ok?

[Vengeance1138]

MS' image gets worse and worse with each passing day, guess they should copy Sony's approach with the Bungie acquisition and keep being multiplat.
Lyin Phil must be pissed that this info came to light, really exposes their exact agenda of pulling all games off competing platforms if they can. Remember case by case basis? Naw, count on 100% of Bethesda and ActiBlizz being exclusive.

Queue the Xbox fanboys actually trying to defend this with their life lol
Massive Microsoft L

[darthv72]

i think it is you that is taking the L on this one. Even over at VGC you are getting schooled.

[shinoff2183]

Sounds a little stalkish darth

[Asplundh]

let's not act like this is just a huge revelation, every one knows that this and Starfield had some kind of work done on a Playstation version, that's just common sense.

[Pickledpepper]

It really doesn't bother me which company buys what studios as I own all platforms.
I prefer xbox over playstation and do criticise PS just to laugh at the reactions, does this make me shallow? Probably.
The issue I have is, when Sony brought out naught dog and insomnia the fanboys loved it and it was OK because its Sony, but MS buying studios is bad for the industry.
You think if Sony had such deep pockets like MS they wouldn't of done the same?
Delusional lol

[shinoff2183]

Pickled the point is completely different being naughty dog and insomniac made games exclusively for Sony anyway where as ms is buying publishers (not studios huge difference) yall won't here that out though cause for whatever reason.

[SoulWarrior]

So let's see, Naughty Dog and Insomniac.

Two studios who worked almost exclusively only with Sony before being purchased. ND worked on the original Crash trilogy and CTR with Sony, Insomniac the same with Spyro, then Ratchet and Clank, a 20 year old long standing Sony IP, then of course the latest Spider-man games. Sony bought them for what, a few hundred million?

So how in any way is this comparable to Bethesda or Activision? Two huge publishers with masses of studios and IPs that have been multiplatform for almost 20 years? Massive false equivalency as usual.

Delusional lol.

[Crows90]

Again. Big difference to say we bought a studio that already pretty much solely works with us over the course of many years and on the other hand buy a studio thats been multiplatform and successful that way for many years.

You wouldnt see anyone complaining and didnt see anyone complaining when they bought undead labs...not sure if they bought ori studio but yeah. Also nobody complained about the bungie or lionhead acquistions...

Rare however, people were unhappy since it was primarily a nintendo developer...shame what happened there...and well we can see clearly how MS handled that studio.

Have your eyes opening a bit and now you can see the differences?

[Haki1112]

that was part of the deal to get bungie Destiny Stays multi and it make sense the game is already on the other platforms where redfall was not and not even announced for PS5. Lets see if Bungie next game is gonna be Multi plat.

[Lightning77]

Too bad it wasn't Sony's approach it was Bungie who wanted to remain multiplat. Only reason why they agreed to be bought out.

[Demetrius]

Well sony lucked up who tf wants an online only single player game anyways smh

[Aloymetal]

Yup, they can keep that game, we're good on the blue side.

[SullysCigar]

Too many people don't understand that it's not about the game (it looks like more gamepass filer to me anyway), it's the principle. I guess to understand that, you have to have principles yourself. It's just constant duplicity from Microsoft over acquisitions past and present - and everything else besides acquisitions too, it seems, of late.

[jznrpg]

We know all those Zenimax/Bethesda games were multiplat and therefore going to be on PS4/5 because that’s where these companies make money selling games before being made exclusive from purchase . Unless MS pays for timed exclusivity almost all multiplat games will come to PS for sure . I’d love to see all the games that released this and last gen comparison numbers for PS and Xbox .

Regardless of all that this game does nothing for me at all. If it was on PS at most I’d wait for the bargain bin or skip it altogether. It looks meh to me .

[Hereandthere]

Of course, it was, so was hellblade 2.

During our Redfall preview session , we had the opportunity to chat with the game's creative director, Harvey Smith (who also worked on Deus Ex and Dishonored 1 and 2). This was an opportunity to ask him the question about the impact that the acquisition of Bethesda by Microsoft had in 2021, right during the development of Redfall.

Harvey Smith told us that one of the notable consequences was the immediate cancellation of the PlayStation 5 version of the game.

“ We were acquired by Microsoft and it was a change with capital C. They came in and said 'No PlayStation 5, we're focusing on Xbox, PC and Game Pass'. »

[Abnor_Mal]

Cool.

[Redemption-64]

I bet this news makes a lot of Xbox fanboys very unhappy. Especially given how they have literally convinced them a PS version of this game and Starfield never existed. I would not be surprised if they even claimed this creative director is paid off by Sony.

At the end of the day, I have no problem with MS making these games exclusive. Just be honest about. Don't say you want more people to play your games or you are not taking games away from any platform, or say console exclusives will eventually go away, or that exclusives are counter to what gaming is about, then turn around and tell devs that were developing a multi-platform game to stop working on the PS version

[bleedsoe9mm]

Of course all Bethesda games were "planned" to be multiplat they were a multiplat publisher. This isn't the case anymore if you want to guarantee you can play their games buy a Xbox, PC or subscribe to GamePass. That's more options than Sony gives you.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

But less options before they were bought.

[bleedsoe9mm]

I'm waiting for Sunset overdrive 2 on Xbox, and I'm still waiting for FF7

[Aloymetal]

@bleedsoe9mm
''I'm waiting for Sunset overdrive 2 on Xbox, and I'm still waiting for FF7''
How can Insomniac take you guys seriously when you never showed support for Sunset Overdrive, game sold like crap on xbox because it wasn't a pew pew game. Same goes for FF. those games sell like doo doo on xbox. Don't blame the publisher/devs but the green fanbase that never support these kind of games.

[gangsta_red]

Less options? Before none of Bethesda games were going to be coming to GP day and date. GP is currently available on a lot more devices than ever before, that's more options.

Let's not kid ourselves with "less options", it's one option less only.

[bleedsoe9mm]

@Aloymetal Sony has 3 studios they didn't acquire, if PS fans get to whine so do I. I have no problem with Sony renting exclusives nor do I mind Xbox buying them.

[gold_drake]

im just not surprised anymore.
Phil and MS are just scum. in any possible way.

i absolutely understand that plans can changee, however, this trial/motion had just shown us that MS and phil specifically, are hypocrites, liars and two faced scum.

[Thundercat77]

This is why Sony and most people doesn't trust MS at all. It doesn't matter what they say, we know they are liars. They should be clear and say it like it is.... Once they have COD, they will limit it. Why not be honest? Why so much lies.

[darkrider]

Another game that Microsoft canceled.... Of course they did. All beteshda games were being made for Sony machines, but Microsoft canceled them all.

[pitythefool]

Did anybody actually believe otherwise.

[DOMination-]

When the Redfall gameplay landed last month, most of the PS crowd here said it didn't look very good. You guys need to make up your minds..

The same with Starfield. You can go back to the announcement article and people are praising it. Now those same people reel out the same boring comment about bugs

Guys, the games are going to be available on PC if you really can't bring yourselves to buy an Xbox. It really isn't worth crying over.

[shinoff2183]

Domination

Did you actually do a poll on how many ps users weren't interested. Even myself I thought it looked straight but the online stuff did it in for me.

Feel free to mosey on to the article about them working on maybe cutting the online requirements and see me mention my interest was piqued a little due to that.

Just saying

[XiNatsuDragnel]

Dang Microsoft this is why we don't trust you guys with ABK deal.

[CrimsonWing69]

Yea, you acquire a studio and when it becomes a first-party dev, you tend to make the games exclusive for your console.

I don't know if y'all were aware of a Rare Ware purchase, but guess what, all projects for Nintendo were halted after the acquisition.

Is this really baffling for people? Like are we now at a point where exclusivity is a head scratcher for people? Or is this just some weird fanboy thing?

It's not like Microsoft has a game that's from a dev that isn't owned by them and they're blocking the game from Sony exclusively while allowing it to be on other platforms *cough cough*.

I'll tell you what, I think next year will be much better when everything goes through and we all just get back to normal. Hopefully, news outlets will have something else obvious to try and blow out of proportion for sensation.

[CR7JUVE1897]

What Rare games were multiplatform BEFORE Microsoft bought them? None.

What Insomniac games were multiplatform before SOny bought them? What, 2 at the most?

Massive difference here. Nearly every single Bethesda/Zenimax and ABK title were multiplatform.

Microsoft is not taking individual titles in a series away. They are taking away entire franchises.

And it is what it is. But let's stop kidding ourselves here and say that Sony has done exactly what Microsoft is doing right now, because it isn't even close.

[CrimsonWing69]

I'm sorry, but what part of when a studio gets bought and turned into a first-party dev didn't make sense as to how exclusivity works?

You think if a company (publisher/dev studio) is bought by a console manufacturer and said publisher/dev studio made multi-platform games before the aquisition, that it all of sudden keeps all their games on every platform?

The only instance I can think of this is Minecraft and even then that's one hell of an anomaly and uhhhh... guess who owns that?

There is no massive difference here. Sony bought Insomniac, Insomniac actually made an exclusive on Xbox One and had a multiplatform release with Fuse. There will never be any Insomniac games on an Xbox platform or Nintendo platform AND I guarantee you if there was plans for another multi-platform game by that studio it got canned.

Was Redfall known before the acquisition? Sh*t MS honored Playstation by allowing them to still have things like Death Loop and Ghostwire and make no mistake, they didn't have to. This happens when buyouts occur and contracts can be null and void.

So, you bought a company and you want exclusives so your console is more enticing to the consumer. I think the logical step is to cut off development for your competition. I don't know, call me crazy, but if the roles were reversed I'd fu**ing expect Sony to do the same. Right?

[Pickledpepper]

Because they don't have the funds, don't kid yourself, if they could've they would've

[blackblades]

But yet you dont get the problem of what Phil said

[CrimsonWing69]

Oh I totally have a problem with flip-flopping' Phil, but I called him out when he said crazy bull sh*t about exclusives not being important.

[MADGameR]

Don't care, the game's gonna flop anyway because it's an X Box title. Goodluck MS.

[SierraGuy]

Meh looking game.

[Destiny1080]

everybody knows, it should have been a playstation 5 exclusive

[Aaroncls7]

yes because it is a kids game lmaooo

[Crows90]

Only Xbox fans weren't aware of this. Most anyways.
...denial is strong in N4g

[H9]

We didn't really lose much, respect for our Xbox brothers for standing this mess on our behalf

[anast]

The game will last a month or two. It's not a big loss.

[Aloymetal]

Lmao!

[MaddoxBeats]

C'mon. it's not Horizon/Returnal/PSVR2, take your pick.

[z2g]

whelp.... unless there were exclusivity deals in place before the purchase like Ghostwire Tokyo and Deathloop, then its all fair game and thats what MS bought. Sony never let Bloodborne come to Xbox and severely limited Final Fantasy releases on Xbox, as well as constantly buys content and advertising deals for COD. So i don't really see anything wrong with this. All is fair in business purchases. I think MS has been completely reasonable with Sony and continues to be even now.

[ShawnardAgain]

How many PlayStation games are on Xbox? MLB and…can’t think of any others. You poor boys that can only afford one console need to stop pretending you know anything about game development.

[nickanasty206]

Not sure why this is a surprise. What surprises me is that most people i see say this game looks like trash anyway. That being the case, why does it being exclusive matter?

[Kekewei]

“No example in Bethesda of us pulling something away from Playstaion community" -- Phil Spencer, Mar 1 2023

[Spenok]

This... is sadly unsurprising news. Doesn't help MS' case for the AB acquisition.

[Viljong]

Games like these make series x and the gamepass worth having. Wo long, atomic heart, redfall in short period of time, good stuff. And all in gamepass.

[Godmars290]

So that means that its always online was intended for the PS5 as well?

[Binarycode]

Vampires, ZZZzzz

[thejigisup]

What I would like to know is why would the acquisition be good for gamers?
Literally not good for gaming in the long run. Microsoft isn't offering anything new to the gaming community by doing this. Gamers do not win.

[SolidusSn4ke]

For months the conversation has been about how “Redfall looks bad”.

Now that the previews are highly positive, the narrative has shifted back to “Microsoft stole the game from PlayStation”.

Rinse and repeat when Starfield releases.

[franwex]

Right Halo CE was also originally planned for MAC and PS2. Then Microsoft bought them for Xbox. So what?

[jjb1981]

Bargain-bin game and will be $20 on Steam pretty soon. Arkane games don't hold their MSRP well. There is too much coming out this summer for this game to maintain a player base.

[Profchaos]

And water is wet

[thejigisup]

If you pour water on your table the table is wet. You can dry your table with a cloth. You can't dry water with a cloth. Water cannot be wet. You wet things with water.

[KillBill]

Everyone that has been on a bend talking bad about Red fall is now up in arms that prior to acquisition there was development plans for PS5. rofl

[OWCY]

Everyone sayings it's a game taken from playststion. But I just wish I could play planetside and final fantasy online on xbox :(

[agnosticgamer]

Xbox covered games that had been publicly announced or were contractually obligated to release on PlayStation to stay multiplatform. Clearly, this title at the time of acquisition didn't meet either criterion.

[SaveFerris]

Wasn't there a rumour that Sony was trying to arrange timed exclusivity with Bethesda for Starfield prior to the acquisition by Microsoft, or was that incorrect?

[arminukxbox]

But it wasn’t announced officially coming out for ps5 was it ?

[Neonridr]

Dev seems to think it was a good idea according to his quote though.. *shrug*

It's not like they had a working game up and running on a PS5 or something, early development could have been concept art, planning, scripts/story, etc.

[InUrFoxHole]

Came for the tears... Love it!

[chobit_A5HL3Y]

just for the moronse that may still be out there, let's just be clear here: unless the game was planned AFTER ms bought zenimax, as in, ms specifically told them to start making an exclusive game for the xbox, then everything was meant to be on ps5 as well lol do people actually think zeni would skip over the largest market-share of their target audience? like, as if they're going to casually sacrifice potentially billions of dollars for some unknown reason just to have it be in the ms ecosystem. there was no way in hell that any game before their acquisition was an ms exclusive. common sense, people lol

[CrimsonWing69]

Sony’s gonna sh*t a brick.

https://twitter.com/Chris_D...

"The CMA has provisionally concluded that the anticipated acquisition by Microsoft Corporation of Activision Blizzard will not result in a substantial lessening of competition in relation to console gaming in the UK"

I mean it’s a no brainer conclusion but since it turned into a fanboy war, it got ugly on here and there was no point trying to reason. Glad it’s about over and like I’ve said so many times this will push Sony to make exclusives to fill the gaps and compete every harder.

In the end this makes for more games for consumers through completion.