Final Fantasy 16 Designers Discuss Why The Series Hasn’t Been Turn-Based For A While

They don't rule out a return to turn-based combat one day, though.

[BandarHub]

It needs to go back to turned base
Square always makes the mistake of thinking they know the market well when they are clueless.
Making the game a hack-and-slash or more action-oriented does not make it more appealing to the west.
If the game costs $100 Million, does mean you have to capture an audience that is not yours, try to introduce a combat system that changes the direction of the series.
Take From software, they know exactly what gamers expect from their games and they deliver exactly that.
Other examples include Atlus and Game freak...they do not stray from the established formulae, and they cultivate a loyal audience.
Square needs to dial it back with their main Final Fantasy and return back to turn-based combat, Devlier a great story akin to PS1-era FF and gives us a decent presentation. There is no reason why FF has to push boundaries and give us top of the line graphics. Apart from FF7, FF was known to be on point with their artstyle rather than top of the line graphics.

[CrimsonWing69]

I don’t get why they don’t do FF7 Remakes hybrid battle system. It’s the best middle ground, but I have to say there’s no denying how good the battle system looks in this. Trust me, I’m a turn-based enthusiast and even I’m excited to try this out.

[BandarHub]

FF7R was a nice compromise between turn base and action, I really liked it.
But it seems that Square Enix want to appeal to an audience that does not exist. They expect their next Final Fantasy to be the Juggernaut that was FF7...
It's not that I'm not impressed by the game, it most likely will play well but I long yearn for the things that were working well in the past. The ragtag group of misfit characters that would join you in your fight....now its all characters that look rather generic.

[LordoftheCritics]

So glad they went real time action.

I don't have the patience for a turn based God of War.

The clear immersive advantages of real time is very very attractive to a storyteller.
Turn based is just about ok for the hardcore role-player but the moment to moment positioning of a story beat or a peak moment is lost.

Games nowadays are pursuing that visceral feeling which only real time can provide.

[jznrpg]

They should do both really . I would buy both . I enjoy action RPGs just as much as turn based just do each of them well.

[shinoff2183]

Id love to see them give an option. was it pathfinder that gives an option of how you want combat

[neutralgamer1992]

BandarHub

Needs to go back is a strong statement. Sales price otherwise and main line FF games will never go back. Those want TBC JPRG's have plenty of options

Fact of the matter is real time combat sells while TBC appeals to a niche market

[Hofstaderman]

I agree with you with the sales part, just look at FF15 sales, that convinced Square they on the correct path. On the other hand, DQ 11 sold very well too…

[shinoff2183]

Theres really not alot of turned based rpgs these days compared to the past. Far as sales its hard to debate that one cause back in what alot of us call the golden era of jrpgs between the snes and ps1. Ill add snes, ps1, saturn. About 160 million consoles sold. So you were limited to those consoles sold. These days theres atleast 100 million more gamers then there was back in the day(just a guess, but still my point). Way more gamers today. FF sold great back in the day just like today.

[lucian229]

As a big fan of turn based games back in the day... They were pretty stale after a while with a few exceptions.... Those exceptions being xenogears, valkyrie profile and legend of legaia.

[Pyrofire95]

To reply to your reply to that other guys reply. SE doesn't want FF16 to be FF7, that's your own expectations being put on them. They expect it to be the next Final Fantasy game and they expect it to be successful. There will never be another FF7 but there will be another FF and they games will continue to change and if you only like the old style than those games exist but they wont be a main numbered FF title for the foreseeable future. Turn-based has become a niche and AAA can't be funded by a niche.

[shinoff2183]

No one has really tried though, dragon quest sold very well. Also like I pointed out above theres way more gamers these days to.

[ChasterMies]

Except a more action focused hack and slash is more appealing to the west. It’s why Microsoft wanted Bethesda. It’s why western gamers use the term “JRPG” as an insult.

[LordoftheCritics]

Even asian devs consider JRPG as an insult.

[shinoff2183]

Not all of us , especially the older ones . When I say jrpg im meaning it in a good way im putting that j on that cause im happy and excited for those type of games. Ive seen advertising from some of those asian devs putting jrpg on it themselves so its probably a select few. The guy at square doesnt represent the whole industry. Maybe some do maybe most do but you cant use one guys feelings as a fact for the whole

[shinoff2183]

Started in ff12 I wasnt drawn to any of the characters. I also miss the days of the turn based jrpgs we hardly get them these days. Imo even if this ff16 came out turn based itd probably still sell 15 million plus more once it hits other gaming sytems(whether pc xbox, probably not switch though). Im warming up to it a little bit but its a crawl as im not feeling the combat at all. I dont even like devil may cry so that does nothing for me aside from turn me off. Even ff7r I really enjoyed it loved most of it even the story and what they are doing. My only complaint with that is still the combat.

I know it might not be a popular opinion these days with the younger crowd and needing to see the constant action and movement to keep their attention but im personally not a fan. I think dragon quest 11 is squares best game since ff9

[BandarHub]

Yeah, I think that it will turn out pretty good if it was turned-based.
This will rally a lot of the fans back onto Final Fantasy.
Square focuses too much on focus groups' opinions and what the current gaming market currently likes.
They have been bad at acknowledging what players wants. Look at FF the first soldier, Stranger of the paradise, Forspoken...what the hell were they thinking making those games.

[-Foxtrot]

“ that we want to get this game in the hands of as many people as possible”

And there it is

It’s about potentially loosing sales despite the fact it’s FF and it would sell regardless

Yakuza Like a Dragon was turn based, so was Persona 5 and they did fantastic

So there’s no excuse really

[NostaglicFantasy]

Because they are chasing 10 million+ sales, with the amount of money they spend making the game, they pretty much have to. FF15 sold 10 million eventually, even if that was one of the worst games in the franchise.

Yet it still outsold the combined sales of Persona 5, P5R and Persona Strikers. It was arguably the best jrpg of the last generation, yet it couldn't outsell FF15. I understand their reasoning, but I still feel like they could split the series and do both turn-based and action easily enough and satisfy everyone.

[343_Guilty_Spark]

If they wanted 10 million plus they’d launch on multiple platforms

[andy85]

It outsold Persona because it's Final Fantasy. It's a much bigger name. If it was turn based it would have still sold as many. DQ 11 is a much smaller name worldwide than FF and that sold over 7 million and it's turn based. FF would have smashed it

[shinoff2183]

Persona is still known as a niche game though even though 5 brought it to the spotlight more it still has a bit to go

[goldwyncq]

And those two games are nowhere near as big as Final Fantasy so they can afford to take the risk. Let's not forget that many Yakuza fans got mad when the gameplay changed from action to turn-based.

[-Foxtrot]

Course they can

FF13 and FF15 were huge letdowns to many fans and still did well financially so if people are going to buy those then I'm pretty god damn sure they'd buy the next one turn based or not.

[porkChop]

Like a Dragon was small, selling 2.5 to 3 million units, though it quickly became the best selling game in the franchise. Persona 5 sold more units than FF7R. 8+ million vs 5 million. Aside from the original FF7 (13 million), FF usually tops out around 10 million. I'd say Persona and FF are on pretty even terms these days. Even SE's own DQXI, a turn-based RPG, isn't far off. It was over 6 million before the definitive edition launched.

SE keeps going further and further into realtime action to increase sales but it hasn't worked at all. FF13 sold around 7 million, and 15 took 5 years to finally hit their goal of 10 million. Maybe returning to turn-based is what the series actually needs.

[shinoff2183]

Was it really many, ive been into yakuza since the first and I was cool with it.

Also thanks porkchop

[neutralgamer1992]

Fox

Fact of the matter is FF15 & FF7 remake combined sold better than like a dragon and past 5+ persona main and side entries. End of the day publishers are supposed to do what's best for business along with gamers and real time combat appeals to more gamers

I love the fact they went real time combat and for those want TBC they still have persona, dragon quest, like a dragon and many more

[shinoff2183]

Of course it sold better, persona and yakuza arent nearly as big as ff. It would have been the case if ff was still turn based or not, combat had nothing to do with it outselling those other to.

[Pyrofire95]

Yakua games are 10x cheaper to make and take less time to make. They are not the same. A FF game takes 6+ years to make now, Yakuza releases bi-yearly sometime yearly. (including things like Judgement and Ishin which are technically spin offs in name only, they retain similar budgets and scope so I'd count them too.)

[neutralgamer1992]

Yakuza games are definitely on budget. As a huge Yakuza fan since original it was disappoint that they made the series TBC when the whole series was known as a beat em up

But og fans like me are constantly reminded we have judgement now but then in the same those who liked TBC in FF can enjoy other games. We can't praise the developer when it comes to like a dragon and hate on another gor wanting to try different things

[CrimsonWing69]

I thought he already made it clear the decision for real-time action was for the younger crowd who apparently can’t handle turn-based and chess-like strategy for fights.

I mean sh*t, we might as well make all chess games real-time action, too.

[phoenixwing]

Those were actually the same reasons they gave in this article with one extra detail. They compared it to gta. That's their goal, they want to literally be as high selling as gta. Making it action f ocused will sell more but se is insane to think they can reach gta levels of sales with the ff ip. My opinion is that they should make a gta clone if they want gta sales but that's just me.

[shinoff2183]

He definitely did.

https://www.videogameschron...

[shinoff2183]

I remember square head coming out and saying that Japanese developers should try to mimic the west, then square tries to mimic the west with turning their main game action.

[Tzuno]

There is no excuse, they wanted to try something new, well... kind of a hit and miss really
Bring back turn based

[goldwyncq]

Going full action is something new. FF hasn't been turn-based for over twenty years now and it's never coming back for a mainline FF game. People need to accept that.

[W34KN35S]

In a perfect world it would have both options and players could switch on the fly. I don't and never have played a Final Fantasy but I did try out and play Kingdom Hearts 1-2 and those are some of my most beloved game experiences and I can certainly say that I wouldn't have played it if it was turn based.

However , Final Fantasy is already established so they should keep things how the fans want and not risk losing their fan base when trying to potentially draw in a new crowd. Every game isn't for everyone.

[Pyrofire95]

Final Fantasy also established that they change it up with every number. Some of the older ones are even turned based just menu based like FF7, they maintained real-time-ish (RTB) combat while remaining menu based.

[Soulsborne]

Imagine this game, this setting, with turn based. Fingers crossed for FF9 remake to have turn based.

[Traecy]

FF games always evolved with the mechanics & battle system which one could clearly see with 12 to 13 & then to 15. With the hardware out now & FF games having a grander scale of graphics & production Square is not going back to a slow turn base battle system. This is why Square releases smaller budget turn base games instead, for folks that want that turn base fix. FF 16 looks amazing.

[jznrpg]

They should do both .

[Pyrofire95]

Look I like turn based but it's a niche. These games are too expensive and take too long to make to be AAA and turn based. If you want turn based games they're only going to exist outside of the AAA.
P.S. Square Enix hasn't abandoned turned based games themselves even, but they aren't the main numbered FF games anymore.

[Dwarrior]

Persona 5 proved that you can do turn-based today and be successful.

[goldwyncq]

P5 has cartoony graphics which works well for turn-based as opposed to modern FF’s realistic graphics, which would just feel plain weird and wrong in a turn-based combat.

[Dwarrior]

Cartoony graphics?

Don't troll me. You're not very good at it.

[GoodGuy09]

Obviously real time is where the money is at. It simply just appeals to a wider audience.... but then there's pokemon, persona, octopath, and dragon quest which prove otherwise.

Idk about a DMC final fantasy though. Fast paced action gameplay gets repetitive quick if not done well...and this is a 30hr rpg game...
DMC combat although good, I can see very repetitive quick. Button mashing and crazy combos are just way too overwhelming for me. Ff16 would need to keep introducing new abilites and mechanics throughout the whole game for me to stay entertained. Strategy, variety and well balanced difficulty are also key.

Why turn based is so tolerable for 50+hr RPGs is because theres always good strategy, progression is a huge motivation, numerous abilities/skills/magics/etc involved and tons of variety in monsters all much more possible since it doesn't require as much work as real time.

I'd really like square to just try a turn based mainline ff someday. In the end, we'll just have to wait to play the game ourselves to know if it's good or not... even though I already know how bad 15 and vii remake were...

[lucian229]

When you said ffvii remake was bad, all. Your credibility was thrown out the window lol

[gold_drake]

i wonder how much additional work it would be to do a Turn based style like FF7 OG, in addition to the action combat style.

ive always wondered if they couldn't do it and why they wouldnt do it that way.

if we're all about choices and accessibility, that would be the best compromise.

and it would definitely appeal to aaaalot of ppl.

im definitely someone who loves turn based ff style, but definitely dont mind the action style. but i know alot of ppl who despise the turn based stuff.

[plmkoh]

The people asking for a turn based FF are the same sickos asking for Resident Evil to go back to isometric like gameplay.

[repsahj]

turn based or not, just don't make another FF15 please.

[lio_convoy]

I like turn based and I like action RPG. I'm good with either and I don't mind their decision to change the series. As long as the story and game is good, and the battle system is fun, that's all that matters.

[BrainSyphoned]

Not sure why they can't do both. Cancel a mobile project or two and bolster your main brand.

[gangsta_red]

Seeing how this franchise is one of the very few JRPGs that has crossed over, I can definitely understand the need to appeal to a wider, current audience